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Search for Nancy Guthrie; Derek Gaunt is Interviewed about the Guthrie Case; Trump's Numbers in February; Rubio's Speech at Munich Security Council; New Vaccine Science Review. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 16, 2026 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Now enters a third week. Her daughter, Savannah Guthrie, is speaking out with a direct message now to the apparent kidnapper with a new message posted to social media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, "TODAY" ANCHOR: It's never too late. And you're not lost or alone. And it is never too late to do the right thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: The focus for investigators, at least in part today, is on getting the final DNA test results back on one of the more promising leads yet a glove found about two miles from Nancy Guthrie's home.

Let's get over to CNN's Leigh Waldman. She's on -- she's live on the scene in Tucson for us.

What's the very latest that you're hearing there and the impact now of this new message from Savannah?

LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Kate, good morning. Good to be with you.

This glove could be very significant because investigators say it visually matches the one that we saw on that doorbell camera footage of the suspect who was armed and masked. Visually it appears to be the same glove there. Now, they've sent it off, confirming that it has DNA on it. They've sent it off now to a private lab in Florida to begin testing. The FBI will do a quality control test on it. And then once it passes that, it will be run through their database, CODIS, to test against any previous offenders that they have DNA for. It will likely also go through that third party DNA mapping, the familial DNA that people submit their DNA to, to try and see if we can find any kind of match.

This isn't the only DNA we've gotten. We've also learned from law enforcement that DNA has been found on the property of Nancy Guthrie. Not telling us exactly where, but it's not Nancy's and it's not anyone close to her. So, it's just this big, overwhelming question, who does this DNA belong to? And you mentioned that desperate plea from her daughter, Savannah

Guthrie. You can see the devastation, the desperation on her voice -- on her face and on her voice as we reach 16 days now since her mother seemingly was abducted from her home. At this point, there's no leads as to why this happened. No indication if this was a burglary gone wrong, if this was a targeted kidnaping or anything like that. They can't eliminate any of those threads of theories at this point. But there's still an ask for people who live within a two mile radius of Nancy Guthrie's home here to look through any surveillance cameras that they have from January 1st through February 2nd, a wide range of time here, trying to identify anyone who seems suspicious, any cars in the area that don't seem to fit in this -- in this place here. And neighbors are also desperate. They tell us that they're kind of on edge, knowing that someone is out there who took their neighbor. They're desperate to find Nancy Guthrie again and bring her home. You can see this growing tribute behind us. These yellow flowers symbolizing hope and support.

And we have to focus all of this on Nancy herself. She's an 84-year- old woman. Her children sharing that she's in fragile health and she relies on medication. Medication that she seemingly hasn't had any access to since she was apparently taken from her home. We know she has a pacemaker, so that's why this search feels desperate at this point.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Leigh, thank you very much for being there. Appreciate the reporting.

John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, with us now is hostage negotiator Derek Gaunt.

And, Derek, I want to start with this new video that Savannah Guthrie released overnight. And twice, I'm going to put these words up on the screen, she said these words, "it's never too late," she said. And she said that twice. "It's never too late to do the right thing." So, why do you think she is saying that? Is it deliberate? And why now?

DEREK GAUNT, HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: I think it is deliberate. And if I was king of the world, for as long as she is able, her or somebody that represents her should continue to make pleas such as this and send them out to the abductors simply because -- and I mentioned this in an earlier hit, John, this negotiation has already started. When one of the first videos that she released at the inception of this event was crafted perfectly. And it was delivered in a manner where it appeared that whoever crafted the message knew that the abductors were listening.

Well, guess what, they're still listening. And people have a misconception about negotiation. If I ask you to think about a negotiation, you're either going to think about a cop standing on a corner with a bullhorn yelling at a building, or you're going to think about what goes on in a boardroom. But the reality is, a negotiation occurs anytime I want or I need is in your head or in the head of the person with whom you're trying to collaborate or influence. [08:35:00]

For Savannah, it's obvious, she needs her mom back. For the abductors, they need the pressure relieved. And so, those words were used specifically to appeal to their humanity and to let them know, because she also said, you're not alone. And right now the world is very small for these abductors. And the pressure is on them. And so, she is using her verbal communication skills to try to alleviate some of that pressure to clear up their thinking, because they're looking for a way out.

BERMAN: I'm so glad we're speaking to you because when I heard, "you're not alone," I heard that as something that maybe was a message to her mother. But there could be that meaning. But also a message to the hostage taker as well.

Derek, I want to ask you about some of the searches that we have seen over the last few days. There was a home searched, you know, within the two-mile radius of Nancy Guthrie's home. There was a car searched. You can see the home right here. In your experience, how often is a crime like this, would they stay in the immediate area? I mean, authorities seem to be focused somewhat on this area. Would it be common if the person didn't get very far away?

GAUNT: I think it could probably be based on the fact that there wasn't a lot of herky-jerky movement on the camera when he was up on the porch. He spent a lot of time on the x at that front porch, which indicates that there's some familiarity with that area. So, it's not a surprise to me that they're still in a -- within a two mile radius.

You know, at the end of the day, the last time I heard it was 30,000 plus leads. And those leads are good. Those leads are, meh. And those leads are terrible. And you got to prioritize them. And even if they've got 1,000 investigators working on this case, that's 30 leads per investigator. That's a lot of work. And so, they're going to take their time in spiraling out from the initial crime scene. And right now the best leads that they're coming up with are within the two mile radius, which is promising.

BERMAN: And then finally, there is one of the leads that we know for sure at this point is the FBI analyzing a glove that they say does match the glove visually -- it matches the glove visually in the doorbell camera footage. They're trying to get the DNA samples. What will they do with that DNA when it comes back?

GAUNT: Well, as your previous guest said, they've got to run it through CODIS to see if there's a match in CODIS. They've got to run it against whatever, excuse me, evidence that they recovered from the scene. It's a promising lead. I'm not -- I'm not over the moon with it yet because I want to see what the results are. But it's the best that they have to go on now, so they're going to run with it as hard and fast as they can.

BERMAN: All right, Derek Gaunt, great to speak with you this morning. Thank you for helping us understand all the clues, everything we are hearing that's new. Kate.

BOLDUAN: A curling controversy at the Olympics now. What's a double touch and why it is causing such drama at the moment?

Plus, Thin Mints and Tagalongs by the thousands. A six-year-old girl and her new Girl Scout record.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:42:15]

BERMAN: This morning, a new record in Pennsylvania. Six-year-old Pim Neill just sold more than 100,000 boxes of Girl Scout cookies. One hundred thousand in all 50 states. Now, with the help of her parents, Pim went on TikTok. And the video she made just blew up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PIM NEILL, GIRL SCOUT: Hi, my name is Pim. Do you want to buy some Girl Scout cookies?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The overwhelming answer seemed to be yes. In all 50 states, some 100,000 boxes worth. Girl Scout officials are calling this unprecedented and say that Pim is bringing Girl Scouts into a new age of technology.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: This Presidents' Day, some bad news in the polling for President Trump. His approval rating hitting new lows.

CNN's Harry Enten is running the numbers on this one for us.

Hello, Harry.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Hello, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Where does the president stand?

ENTEN: Happy Washington's birthday observed today. That's what it is in the state of New York. I'm a New Yorker through and through.

Let's take a look at another president, though, President Donald John Trump. Look at this. I got four numbers across for you on this screen here. They are all second term lows for the given pollster. What are we talking about? AP-NORC, 26 points below water. NBC, 22 points below water. Yahoo/YouGov, 20 points below water. Quinnipiac, 19 points below water. So, we're ranging from negative 19 points all the way to negative 26 points.

You know, Kate, there's this question that folks keep asking, you know, where is the floor for Donald Trump? And I'm not sure there is a floor because if there is one, Donald Trump, at least in term number two, has just fallen through it to another low level.

BOLDUAN: How does this compare with his first term and how does this compare with Joe Biden?

ENTEN: OK. So, we look at these numbers right here. And one of the things that Donald Trump had been arguing, his proponents have been arguing, oh, you know what, he's doing better than he was doing in term number one. No longer is that the case.

What are we talking about here? OK, net approval rating at this point in the term. Look at this, 22 points below water on average when you average all the pollsters from the last slide. That is actually lower. That is lower than he was at this point in term number two -- term number one when he was 17 points below water. So, he's doing five points worse. Five points worse. And he's doing way worse than Joe Biden was doing at this point in his term number one when he was 13 points below water.

So, the bottom line is this, Donald Trump is setting new records for himself in term number two, setting new records for himself compared to where he was at this point in term number one. And he's doing worse than Joe Biden, which is, of course, the comparison that Donald Trump does not want to be, because we all know what happened to Joe Biden. His party lost the House in term number one, that midterm elections. And then, of course, Joe Biden was not re-elected to another term. At this point the numbers are no bueno for the president of the United States.

BOLDUAN: What's driving this that you're seeing right now?

ENTEN: OK, Kate. You know what, this is the segment, we have done it over and over and over again because he keeps setting new lows for himself.

[08:45:07]

What are we talking about? Well, we're talking about independents. We're talking about independents. When you lose the center of the electorate, you lose the American people. Trump's net approval rating among independents, you know at this point you go back term number one, he was 17 points below water. Now, according to Quinnipiac, he is 27 points below water. I don't understand how this works out well for the president of the United States. When you are 27 points below, water under water with the center of the electorate, with independents, you lose, your party loses.

You know, I've made the comparisons before, you know, always more underwater than Greg Louganis. I've made the comparisons with all those different divers. And the bottom line is this, you can continue to make those, but over time, when you keep making those same comparisons, they run a little bit old. But at this point, I don't really know who to even compare Donald Trump to because he's just so low and he's so low with the center of the electorate.

BOLDUAN: Can only be compared to himself.

ENTEN: That's correct.

BOLDUAN: Harry, thank you so much.

ENTEN: Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: John.

BERMAN: All right, new this morning, Secretary of State Marco Rubio is meeting in Budapest with Hungary's authoritarian leader and Trump ally, Viktor Orban. He actually wrapped up those meetings. The secretary was highlighting a, quote, "golden era of relations" between the two countries. The secretary delivered a high-profile speech at the Munich Security Council. Hillary Clinton, who once held Rubio's job, was also there and slammed the Trump administration for failing to honor alliances.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: He has betrayed the west. He's betrayed human values. He's betrayed the NATO charter, the Atlantic charter, the universal declaration of human rights. A lot of what has been done before to try to make sense of how difficult it is to restrain people who want unaccountable power.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: With us now is Admiral James Stavridis, a former supreme allied commander of NATO and a CNN senior military analyst.

And, Admiral, it's great to see you.

I think people are still trying to digest what the secretary said in Munich. I want to read a quote from him that's getting a lot of attention. He said, "we are part of one civilization, western civilization. We are bound to one another by the deepest bonds that nations could share, forged by centuries of shared history, Christian faith, culture, heritage, language, ancestry."

Now, "The New York Times," just one source to note that his speech, Rubio's speech, "reiterated America's commitment to Europe but wrapped it in historic and cultural ties that seemingly exclude large sections of the current European population."

So, it wasn't about, you know, democracy, anti-authoritarianism, anti- communism even, which we would have heard for 40, 50, 60 years, but about this idea of civilization. So, why that distinction? And what's the impact of that?

ADM. JAMES STAVRIDIS (RET.), CNN SENIOR MILITARY ANALYST: I'm Greek Americans. So, I resonate to the idea that we are children of Europe. And it's not just our parents or grandparents or great grandparents who came here. It is the values. It is the democracy, the liberty, the freedom of speech, break, break.

What the speech did was set a far better tone, John. And, you know, sometimes how you say something can actually matter more than what you're actually saying. In this case, however, the fundamentals are still not good between the U.S. and Europe. And you heard that in the frustration in Secretary Clinton's voice. For the Europeans, it's the Greenland moment. It is the trade and tariff disagreement. It is walking away from climate. It is our lack of support militarily at the moment to Ukraine.

So, bottom line in this speech, good tone. I resonate to the fundamental ideas. I hope we can have this transatlantic bridge. But there's a lot of fundamental differences right now across that Atlantic.

BERMAN: Yes, you know, you brought up Greenland and "The New York Times" noted in a number of members of Congress who did go over there noted that was all Europeans wanted to talk about. This is a quote from "The New York Times." "Senators and a handful of House members who bought last minute tickets to Munich after Speaker Mike Johnson canceled their chamber's official convoy, said Greenland dominated their conversations. If I were to draw a cartoon, Jim Himes said, it would be a European saying, Greenland, Greenland, Greenland, Greenland."

Why? Why did what happened with the president's machinations over Greenland, why has it had such a lasting impact that has not gone away?

STAVRIDIS: First and foremost, we got to remember, as the United States, we're an amazing country, but we're not terribly good at empathy or understanding how others view us. We're kind of, if we were a dog, we'd be a very happy golden retriever, kind of bounding through the world, knocking things over with our tail.

[08:50:03]

And this is an example of that.

We got very focused for a moment, I hope it's just a moment, on this idea of possessing Greenland. Then we move on. The Europeans, this is their territory. It's been part of the kingdom of Denmark for centuries. It is so obviously something the Europeans were willing to work with us on. And yet there was a lot of bellicose rhetoric coming out of the White House.

So, when you put all that together, it looms very large in the European mind. And Emmanuel Macron, the president of France, has taken to calling this the Greenland moment. And I'm hearing that from many of my European colleagues and friends.

Bottom line, John, I've been to the Munich Security Conference many, many times. There is a tendency for a particular moment or comment to thread itself through that very compressed two-and-a-half-day conference. I think Greenland is, in fact, the one that on that side of the Atlantic is still resonating.

BERMAN: Yes, it -- look, one -- we'll never know how serious President Trump was about it, but it seems the way he went about it has changed the way that the Europeans are looking at the United States, at least for now. At least that's the feedback we're getting from Munich.

Admiral James Stavridis, it's great to speak with you this morning. Thank you very much.

All right, new video this morning of Florida deputies saving a woman and a baby after a carjacking and a crash. Officials say the woman pulled -- the suspect pulled a woman from her car and drove off with the carjacking victim's one year old child still strapped in the back seat. The suspect then crashed the car into another vehicle. That sparked a fiery wreck. A deputy pulled an unconscious woman from the car that was crashed into. She is recovering from her burns. They also rescued the baby, thankfully, from the stolen car.

So, it took more than 150 years, but one of Lake Michigan's most sought after missing ships has been found. The passenger steamer Lac La Belle was lost in a storm in 1872. Shipwreck hunter Paul Ehorn has been looking for it for more than 60 years. That's a long time. He says the steamers exterior upper cabins are gone, but the hull looks intact and the oak interiors are still in good shape.

Controversy sweeping curling at the Winter Olympics. Canadas' Rachel Homan was accused of improperly double touching after releasing a stone. You cannot double touch the stones. The play was stopped and the stone was removed. Canada's men's and women's team and the British men's team have now been -- now all been accused of double touching. They deny any wrongdoing, Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, the Food and Drug Administration will now consider a petition, it says, that wants to fight ultra processed foods. This coming from the Health and Human Services Secretary Robert Kennedy Jr. He says the FDA is now looking at -- looking into the fight that former FDA Commissioner David Kessler is already waging, asking FDA to close a loophole for ingredients like corn syrup and other sweeteners that are currently classified as generally recognized as safe. But Kessler says they're anything but. He says they are the reason behind the greatest increase in chronic disease in our history, diabetes, hypertension, heart attack, stroke, leading him to agree with a man, RFK, that Kessler disagrees with on almost everything else.

Watch this from "60 Minutes."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you concerned at all that your stance on vaccines might make people reluctant to support you on ultra processed foods?

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: My stance on vaccines is the same. People should have good science and they should have choice.

DAVID KESSLER, FORMER FDA COMMISSIONER: The secretary and I, you know, we disagree on a number of issues. I mean in the strongest possible terms, when it comes to vaccines, I disagree. But if he's willing to take action on these ultra processed foods, I will be the first to applaud that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't trust him on vaccines, why trust him when it comes to ultra processed foods?

KESSLER: I don't think it's a question of trust, Bill. I mean this country is ill. I'm a doc. I care about the public health of this country. And if we can make progress on that, let's do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Well, speaking of vaccines, the American Medical Association is now teaming up with the public health research group, the Vaccine Integrity Project, to create its own independent system, if you will, to review vaccine safety. Essentially doing what CDC has long done. The reason why? The groups say the CDC's vaccine review process now has, quote/unquote, "effectively collapsed."

Joining me right now is Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota. He started The Vaccine Integrity Project, and Dr. Sandra Fryhofer, a member of the AMA board of trustees.

[08:55:06]

Thank you, guys, for being here.

Michael, why launch this? Why is this needed?

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH AND POLICY CENTER: Well, for decades, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, working with the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, an independent group of experts, actually did the heavy lift of bringing evidence forward about how vaccines work, how safe they are, how we should best use them. That system is no longer with us. That has been eliminated under this administration. And so today we don't have evidence-based approaches in terms of our science. And what we get are dictums that just come down from on high saying this is what we're going to do. That's dangerous and it's going to result in people's lives being lost right now.

BOLDUAN: Dr. Fryhofer, you're the AMA's liaison to the CDC'S vaccine panel. With this independent review, are you saying essentially that docs and families, doctors and families, they shouldn't listen to the CDC?

DR. SANDRA FRYHOFER, INTERNAL MEDICINE PHYSICIAN: Physicians need real evidence-based vaccine guidance we can trust so we can advise our patients with confidence. And we're not getting that from the CDC now. And that's why AMA's working with the Vaccine Integrity Project to restore a transparent, evidence-based process for making vaccine recommendations.

Now, as Michael said, for decades, physicians like me have relied on the CDC's vaccine recommendations because they used to be based on science and data and careful review. But that's not what's happening now. Recent changes were made to the childhood schedule without any new scientific evidence or data to support these changes, and this has created confusion for doctors and for patients alike. BOLDUAN: And, Michael, on that point, a spokesperson for HHS gave "The

Washington Post" this statement that included this. "While outside organizations continue to conduct their own analyzes and confuse the American people, those efforts do not replace or supersede the federal process that guides vaccine policy in the United States."

Do your efforts threaten to confuse things more for parents concerned about doing the right thing for their kids when it comes to vaccines, when as Dr. Fryhofer just said, part of the concern coming out of CDC was confusion?

OSTERHOLM: Well, first of all, I want to just emphasize the fact that we will never be, as an organizational structure with both the AMA and VIP, the Vaccine Integrity Project, working on this, a replacement for the ACIP. That is a government agency organizational structure that we need to have. We just need to restore it.

But in the meantime, if you look across the board with the medical expertise of this country, beginning right with the American Medical Association down to the various medical societies, to the number of experts, Kate, that you have on this program frequently, have all stated clearly and unequivocally that, in fact, the information being provided right now by the Department of Health and Human Services is factually not correct, and it is dangerous.

And so this is, to me, a very unusual moment where I have seen a unity among health care providers, among experts in the area of infectious diseases and vaccines, and organizations like the AMA really step up to provide the clinical community with the information they need to be certain that they're actually using the vaccines that are going to be in the most effective and safe way.

BOLDUAN: And, Doctor, as Michael is saying, this doesn't replace a federal agency. You're not trying to say that it does. But will you be -- do you want to lay out actual recommendations and guidance of -- for physicians, for families to be following when you gather this research?

FRYHOFER: So, we must restore trust in vaccines. That begins with reestablishing an evidence-based approach from making these recommendations. And this effort is all about giving physicians, clinicians, parents and patients the information they need to make informed decisions. And to be quite frank, things on the federal level, as far as vaccines are concerned right now, are a disaster. And our goal with this collaboration is to make sure the public has clear, consistent, science-based guidance they can trust, even while the federal process is in flux.

Now, what's going to happen is the Vaccine Integrity Project will conduct a comprehensive, scientific, evidence-based review about risk and benefits. And we're starting with flu, Covid and RSV vaccines. And then medical specialty societies can use these evidence-based reviews to make vaccine specific recommendations for the patient populations they see.

And as Michael said, this is what the federal government used to do before everything changed. Remember, vaccination saves lives and vaccine guidance must be trusted, credible and grounded in evidence.

[09:00:02]

BOLDUAN: Michael Osterholm, Dr. Sandra Fryhofer, thank you so much for coming in.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.