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Interview with Rep. Don Bacon (R-NE): Trump, I Don't Need Congressional Approval of Tariffs; Trump Blasts Supreme Court Justices Who Ruled Against His Tariffs. Aired 2:30-3p ET

Aired February 20, 2026 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:30:00]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And we're back with our breaking news. President Trump imposing a 10 percent global tariff after the Supreme Court ruling struck down what has become a central part of his economic policy, saying essentially that his biggest tariffs, those reciprocal tariffs, are illegal because of the basis that he used for them. We have Republican Congressman Don Bacon of Nebraska joining us now.

Congressman, what's your reaction to this ruling? Let's start with that.

REP. DON BACON (R-NE), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, the Constitution was defended today, the checks and balances of the branches of government. I thought Neil Gorsuch wrote a brilliant ruling. It's really conservative philosophy that he espoused.

I mean, Milton Friedman and Adam Smith and the founders and what they intended, and he made it clear. Any tariff has to be approved by Congress. That is what he wrote, and that's the majority position.

The president today kept quoting the dissenting view, which is not law. Neil Gorsuch's position is law, and so bottom line is any tariff that the president wants to do has to go through Congress and be approved. That's the bottom line from this ruling, and I agree with that.

That's what the founders wanted, and that's what Republicans should want. We have long held this view just because President Trump disagrees shouldn't change what conservatives believe in.

KEILAR: And yet very few Republicans, right, have stood up and said that as strongly as you did right there, which I want to revisit in a moment. But first off, as you said, it now requires Congress. Well, the president was asked if he's going to ask Congress for more tariff authority.

[14:35:00]

He said, "I don't have to. It's already been approved." We should note section 122 under which he wants to do this 10 percent global tariff expires in 150 days unless Congress extends them.

What do you make of him saying that? I don't have to go to Congress. It's already been approved.

BACON: Well, I didn't read Neil Gorsuch's position on this, and that was the majority position in the ruling. And that is what is now law, unless it gets changed later down the road. I think if he goes ahead with this 10 percent global tariff, they'll be brought up for a vote in Congress, and it will be defeated.

It may not have a veto proof majority, but it will have a majority that will go against that 10 percent global tariff. So I think the president is making a mistake here. Again, he's quoting a lot to support this from the dissenting position, but that is not law.

And so I think the 10 percent global tariff also undermines his argument about these tariffs being reciprocal, right? This is what he was trying to defend the tariffs on. And I think a lot of folks like me never really believed it.

I think he's been a tariff supporter since the 1980s. And I just want to come back and tell my fellow Republicans. We have opposed tariffs since World War II. It's been the conservative position.

The last president to support tariffs that was a Republican was Herbert Hoover. And that exacerbated the depression, the worst depression that we ever had. So the conservative position here is that tariffs are bad economics, it's bad politics, and we should defend that.

I have not changed.

KEILAR: Yes, and there are other Republicans, we know this, who agree with you but haven't voted with you. Right.

And they have obviously a lot of political concerns. You were one of six Republicans to vote last week to effectively repeal the president's tariffs on Canada. He took shots at Republicans like you for that.

You had previously suggested as many as 30 Republicans could join in that vote. Do you expect to be seeing with this decision more Republican support?

BACON: I do think so, but it's really hard to know. I do know many Republicans oppose tariffs. They don't want to go against the president's signature economic plan, though they themselves don't think it's wise.

I think the speaker had a couple of good arguments last week. You know, he talked about the Supreme Court will rule on this, let's just wait for that. And also the president will just veto this if it does pass, so it's only symbolic.

That was the arguments that the speaker and others in the leadership were trying to use. I think it persuaded some, but having this ruling now that was so clearly puts the power back in Congress's hands, the House's hands. We have to stand up on our own two feet and use these authorities because that's what the founders intended. So I intend to ensure that we continue to have votes now on these tariffs.

I thought maybe we could back off because the Supreme Court ruled, but hearing the president just now say he was going to do a 10 percent global tariff and he's going to try to use other authorities for tariffs means that we got to keep voting on this and having the majority position heard. So I think the president didn't do himself any favors with those comments today.

KEILAR: And I know you think the majority opinion supported by the conservative appointed justices is brilliant. The president definitely does not agree. I think we could say coming out of that press availability that he had, but I wonder what you think about some of the words that he was using.

He was saying, you know, he expected the Democrats obviously to vote against him. You can't knock their loyalty. That's something you can do with our people.

He talked about calling them fools for the rhinos, the Republicans in name only, and called them lapdogs, unpatriotic, disloyal to the Constitution, and perhaps most scathing and questionable. He said, "I think it's an embarrassment to their families." He was saying that specifically of the conservative Justices or certainly the two that he appointed.

Do you have any concerns when he talks about the Justices like that?

BACON: Well, that's the way he talks. And unfortunately, he doesn't play chess and look ahead three or four moves. And you do that, you undermine folks wanting to work with them in the future.

I mean, I have given a lot of examples from the first administration, you know, he trashed General Mattis, who I admired. What does General Mattis do? You know, later on, he, you know, he gets his revenge.

But let me just talk about the core issue here. The president thinks a good Republican does what he wants, right?

[14:40:00]

I'm a Republican because I've been brought up with a Reagan philosophy of, you know, limited government, limited taxes, strong defense, pro- life. It's a conservative philosophy that was raised on. I'm a Republican because of those views.

If someone says that we're going to change our views and that's going to change, you know, change the definition of being a Republican. Well, I'm not a Republican then. I'm a conservative and conservatives do not believe in tariffs. And if we do, do tariffs, we know that it has to be authorized by Congress, not just by the president.

That is the conservative position. And I don't change from that. And if the president wants to change what a Republican believes in, that that's a separate issue.

Real conservatives know that tariffs are bad economic policy and there's a constitutional way to do it if you wanted to do them. And we should not change from that.

KEILAR: Yes, it's a constitutional opinion, clearly now, as we are hearing from the court. Congressman Don Bacon, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate it.

BACON: Thank you.

KEILAR: We'll be right back.

[14:45:00]

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BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Wall Street seems to be breathing a sigh of relief after the Supreme Court struck down President Trump's sweeping tariffs. Markets have been up and down in the last few hours since the decision was announced. It looks like all three major indices are in the green right now.

How is this going to affect Main Street, though? Let's find out with CNN's Matt Egan. Matt, on the surface, I think most would think that prices are going to start coming down.

Is that going to be the case?

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Unfortunately, Boris, probably not. Now, this is definitely a historic decision and a major setback to the president's tariff regime. However, this is not a fatal blow to Trump tariffs.

And the president made clear he's not backing down when it comes to tariffs. In fact, he said he could get the tariff rate to go even higher by using different existing tariff authorities. Now, today's decision from the Supreme Court, it only applies to IEEPA, the International Emergency Economic Powers Act.

However, the president has already said that he will use a different authority, Section 122, to impose a 10 percent tariff. And that authority actually allows them to go even higher, up to 15 percent, although only for 150 days. Another option for the White House is to use Section 338.

That is part of the infamous 1930 Smoot-Hawley Act that made the Great Depression worse. And that authority allows the president to put tariffs as high as 50 percent for five months, although that authority is untested and has never been used before. There's also other authorities, Section 301, that's already in use against China.

That's not impacted by today's move, nor are the Section 232 national security tariffs. Now, before today's ruling, the Tax Foundation expected that the U.S. effective tariff rate would be 10 percent this year. That's up from 7.5 percent last year and just 2.4 percent back in 2024. The Tax Foundation says that because of this ruling, the tariff rate may not be quite as high this year. But it's not really clear just yet. It all depends on how successful the president is with rebuilding tariffs, again, using different authorities. Now, meanwhile, we've already seen price hikes on a range of goods that are exposed to tariffs. Four percent increase over the past year on furniture and bedding, six percent tools and hardware, double digit increases for a variety of other items, including audio equipment and for coffee. The other thing to note here, though, is that even if courts require the federal government to refund tariffs, that's not likely to be shared with all of us consumers.

Stephanie Roth over at Wolfe Research, she told me companies are highly unlikely to start trimming their prices as a result. She said, Walmart's not going to give you a check for the 15 percent tariff on sneakers that you bought from them four months ago. So, look, Boris, bottom line, yes, tariffs are unpopular.

Yes, people are frustrated with prices. But unfortunately, this is unlikely to be a game changer when it comes to prices.

SANCHEZ: Yes, still a lot of questions about what's going to happen to that $150 billion. Matt Egan, thanks so much for that report.

Still to come, a history of presidents fighting the Supreme Court in our country. Tim Naftali, our presidential historian, will join us for more context when we come back.

[14:50:00]

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KEILAR: The breaking news. President Trump blasting the Supreme Court calling some of the justices a disgrace to our nation. After the court ruled his sweeping emergency tariffs are actually illegal.

SANCHEZ: In this 6-3 decision, Justices Amy Coney Barrett and Neil Gorsuch joined Chief Justice John Roberts and the court's three liberal justices. President Trump also announced during his press briefing a new 10 percent global tariff on top of those already in place.

Joining us now for some perspective is CNN Presidential Historian Tim Naftali. He's a former director of the Nixon Presidential Library and a senior research scholar at Columbia School of International and Public Affairs. Tim, great to see you as always.

First, let's start with the decision itself. How momentous was this rebuke of the Supreme Court of President Trump's executive powers when it comes to tariffs?

TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: Well, wherever he is, James Madison is smiling today. Tariffs are a tax. The founders decided that taxes should be the responsibility of the Article 1 branch, which is Congress.

And today, the U.S. Constitution worked as it's supposed to work, which is to keep various parts of the government in check when they overstep constitutional bounds. This is a huge moment in American history. Donald Trump is not the first president to have been disappointed by the court.

The courts in the 1930s invalidated Franklin Roosevelt's New Deal. That's what led to the first push to pack the court. That was Roosevelt's response to the fact that he was so angry at the court for undermining the New Deal. In the end, the court changed and the New Deal stayed.

Richard Nixon was furious at the court for forcing him to turn over the tapes when he lost the case U.S. v. Nixon.

[14:55:00]

Well, the Dobbs decision really unsettled the Biden presidency, and Obama was not happy with Citizens United. So it's not new for presidents to be unhappy about a Supreme Court decision, but it's American. It's the way that works.

Our system is supposed to work this way. Every so often, one of the branches is supposed to be disappointed when it can't engage in a power grab that is unconstitutional.

KEILAR: And yet, it's not as if this court, Tim, has sort of boxed him in at every turn and dismissed this idea of the strong executive, that, you know, he's always kind of pushing the envelope and trying to go as far as he can with his power as president. This is actually a court that has affirmed, and we'll see some other decisions coming up where they stand on that. But I wonder, just historically, how you see this court relating to this president in that regard.

NAFTALI: At the risk of angering some constitutional lawyers, I think there's a difference between principled conservatives and partisan conservatives. I think what you saw today was principled conservatives who really believe in trying to figure out what our framers wanted, saying, this shall not pass. This is an extension of presidential power that is unconstitutional.

Partisan conservatives, the ones who wanted to make the White House the center of our government, they're going to want their president always to prevail, whether a Democrat or a Republican. But today was the day for principled conservatives and principled liberals. Some of the cases that President Trump, some of the so-called shadow docket cases that he won, they were issues that didn't really contradict some of what principled conservatives find unacceptable.

But today, when it came to tariffs, our Constitution is absolutely cleared. There's no gray area. And principled conservatives had to say to partisan conservatives, enough is enough.

SANCHEZ: I also wonder, Tim, what effect this has generally, more broadly, because President Trump has attacked all manner of judges at lower levels, but this is the highest court in the land. And these attacks, as you laid out, are unprecedented. I think Andrew Jackson sort of disobeyed the Supreme Court at one point, but actually insulting justices directly and saying that their families should be ashamed of them.

What does that do?

NAFTALI: Well, let's keep in mind that the Supreme Court does not have an army. And our system of government requires our elected officials to put country first and Constitution first. So the president is facing the same challenges that other disappointed presidents have faced before, which is what do you do when a co-equal branch says no to you?

Richard Nixon spent a few hours trying to figure out what to do because he knew his presidency was over when he lost the tapes case. And as a lawyer himself, he decided that it was better for the country, though not better for him personally, that he accept the decision. FDR actually pushed to change the court and then was beaten back by Congress and realized there was a limit to his own presidential powers.

So presidents have faced this before. It's in the interest of our country that our president, whoever he and someday she is, keeps in mind that the Constitution is the center of our system and it must be respected, which means respecting the court.

SANCHEZ: Tim Naftali, thank you so much. Appreciate the expertise. Our coverage of the historic Supreme Court decision on tariffs continues in a moment.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts after a quick break.

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