Return to Transcripts main page

CNN News Central

Gordon Chang is Interviewed about China; Trump Claims Iran's Pipelines Could Explode; Polls on President Trump; Jared Bernstein is Interviewed about the Federal Reserve; Storms Target Central and Northern Plains. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired May 15, 2026 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:32:20]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So, breaking news this morning. President Trump says he has not decided whether to move forward on a major weapons sale to Taiwan. This as he left Beijing from a two-day summit with Chinese Leader Xi Jinping. That leaves an arms package worth around $14 billion up on the -- up in the air. Taiwan, of course, is a democratic, self-governing island, but Beijing views it as part of its territory. Xi warned Trump during the summit that the wrong move could trigger clashes or even conflicts between the two superpowers.

This is what the president said aboard Air Force One on the way back to the United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: (INAUDIBLE) for Taiwan. You know, the whole thing with the arm sales was in great detail, actually. And I'll be making decisions. But, you know, I think the last thing we need right now is a war that's 9,500 miles away. I think that's the last thing we need. We're doing very well.

REPORTER: Would the U.S. defend Taiwan if it came to it?

TRUMP: I don't want to say. I'm not going to say that. There's only one person that knows that. You know who it is? Me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: With us now, Gordon Chang, an analyst on China. He is the author of the book, "Plan Red: China's Project to Destroy America."

Gordon, it's been a while. Great to see you again. Always like our discussions.

To what extent do you think China -- how do you think they feel about the language that President Trump used -- just used on Air Force One about Taiwan?

GORDON CHANG, AUTHOR, "PLAN RED: CHINA'S PROJECT TO DESTROY AMERICA": I'm sure that they loved it. You know, settled U.S. policy is not to talk to China about Taiwan arms sales. And we do that for a number of reasons. But if President Trump decides not to go ahead with that $14 billion package, it will look not only like a concession but a sign of weakness. And I think China will then press the advantage.

I suspect that President Trump will go ahead with that package. But again, it's like everything else from this summit, we'll just have to see what occurs, because very little was actually announced, and that means that there's going to be a lot of announcements going forward. Or if there are no announcements, that's news in itself.

BERMAN: Yes, it is interesting that we don't have any more concrete details as we sit here after the summit has been completed. Just on the U.S. policy of not discussing arms sales with China, the president said, yes, I don't really care. He said, that's a 1982 agreement, I don't care about that. But why is it policy not to talk to China about arms sales to Taiwan, which the president flat out said he did?

CHANG: Well, there's a number of reasons for the policy, but one of them is that we support Taiwan and we do so because it's in our interest. We should not be talking to an aggressor about how we defend our friends and partners.

[08:35:03]

And so, it is just, from that perspective alone. But also, once you start talking with China about this, it then gets caught up in a number of other things. No good actually comes out of something like that. And so, that's the reason why that policy has been in place for a very long time. There's a reason for it. And clearly we're seeing the reason now play out.

BERMAN: Why is it, do you think, any speculation about why we haven't heard more concrete details about what was agreed to over the last couple of days?

CHANG: Most summits are canned with everything decided, including the communiques, before the foreign leader arrives in China. This one was actually substantive. And so there -- I think that they don't have time to actually decide what they decided. Plus, also, actually, documenting it on paper. This is going to take some time, but we got to also know that Xi Jinping is coming to the United States on or about September 24th, as President Trump announced on Thursday. And that means there's a deadline, in a sense, for these agreements to be put in place if, in fact, there are agreements.

BERMAN: We do have a sense from the Chinese side of what Xi Jinping allegedly said to President Trump on a number of things. And there's this reported quote where he discusses the so-called "Thucydides Trap." He said, "whether China and the United States can transcend the so-called 'Thucydides Trap' and pioneer a new paradigm of major country relations, or questions of history, questions of the world and questions of the people."

Thucydides, a famous Greek historian who wrote about the Peloponnesian war and suggested that if there is a rising power and a declining power, it is inevitable that they will fight each other.

What's the significance of Xi bringing this up?

CHANG: Basically, he was saying to President Trump that, I don't really have to deal with you, at least on a long term basis, because you're the leader of a declining power, and I'm going to shove you off to the side. And if there was any doubt that that was Xi Jinping's intention, he also used one of his favorite phrases, which was, new era. New era in Xi Jinping speak is an era where China rules the world, and the United States is nowhere to be seen. So, clearly, Xi Jinping was insulting, not just President Trump, but he was insulting the United States of America, full stop.

BERMAN: And finally, it's unclear whether or not the president had any reasonable expectations of getting help from China on Iran. He did say China is supportive of the U.S. policy there, wants to open the Strait of Hormuz. What do you think China would be willing to offer on Iran, and what's the likelihood you think they'll get involved any more than they have already?

CHANG: Well, they certainly want the Strait of Hormuz open because they've now got the oil shock, which we can see if -- in the Chinese economy. But I don't think that they want to do very much because they view the war, and I think they're incorrect on this, but they view the war as a quagmire. They'd like to see the U.S. bogged down. They'd like to see the U.S. humiliated. And we know from Chinese propaganda, which has been out there in the last few hours, that they are blaming the United States for the war.

On the other hand, the United States needs to say, there's a war because China transplanted its nuclear weapons program on Iranian soil by transferring equipment, materials and technology, both directly and indirectly. No American president has been willing to say that. But there's so much evidence to show that. And we need to actually fight this information war.

BERMAN: Gordon Chang, it's great to talk to you. I think we're all going to have to wait a little bit to figure out if we learn more about what was done or what was agreed to at this summit. Thanks so much for being with us.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let's talk more about the war with Iran. Donald -- President Trump has said that Iran is a ticking time bomb if it does not get oil moving and doing so fast. He has repeatedly suggested infrastructure could explode because of it being backed up. Experts, though, skeptical of that.

David Goldman is here. He's got much more on this.

What are you seeing here?

DAVID GOLDMAN, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS REPORTER: Yes, it's a weird story, right? I mean we don't usually think about oil exploding. But President Trump seems to think that that's a real possibility. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If they don't get their oil moving, their whole oil infrastructure is going to explode.

When you have, you know, lines of vast amounts of oil pouring through your system, if for any reason that line is closed, because you can't continue to put it into containers or ships, which has happened to them, they have no ships because of the blockade, what happens is that line explodes from within. Both mechanically and in the earth.

You know, their oil, when you turn off the oil, underground, and the mechanical too, but underground has a tendency, in, like, almost 100 percent of the cases, to literally explode and just destroy everything around it.

[08:40:06]

And you can never get that oil again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLDMAN: OK, what's he talking about here? Exploding oil wells. Well, it's not really how it works. There's a kernel of truth there, though, believe it or not. So, when Iran started getting this blockade from the United States, they had nowhere to put their oil. So, eventually, they actually have to shut their oil wells off. And that's called shutting in. And it's actually a really complex engineering feat. There's a lot that can go wrong when this happens. You have imbalanced pressure, right? That's the whole thing that gets the oil out. If you don't have the right pressure, then some parts are higher, some parts are lower, you might not be able to get your oil out.

But the danger here is, when you have damage underground, which can happen. And in very, very rare examples, there -- you can have, if you have bad seals, you can have explosions.

BOLDUAN: OK.

GOLDMAN: But Iran knows how to deal with this. They deal with shut ins all the time. And the Middle East has been shutting in oil during Covid and when OPEC says you're producing too much, hang on a second. They know how to deal with this. Don't expect -- don't expect Iran's oil infrastructure to just go boom anytime soon.

BOLDUAN: OK, so exploding oil, not a development we should be anticipating, at least, on the horizon?

GOLDMAN: Not today. Of all the weird things that are happening, this is not one you need to worry about today.

BOLDUAN: Today concludes your Dr. David Goldman Ted -- Dave talk,

I appreciate it, buddy. Thank you so much. GOLDMAN: You got it. No problem.

BOLDUAN: Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, thank you so much, Kate.

Right now, President Trump is on his way back, as you know, from a critical summit with Chinese President Xi. He is on Air Force One making his way back to the United States. Speaking this morning on Air Force One, he made some eyebrow -raising statements, including a non- commitment on Taiwan arms sales that Congress has already approved, to the tune of about $14 billion. He also talked about the Strait of Hormuz.

How do you, the American people, feel about the president's handling of all these huge, important issues? And that is where CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten comes in.

So, just where is Donald Trump right now in the minds of Americans?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: You know, we've had all of these big events that have been going on. And sometimes I think it's worth taking the 35,000 point view, right? That viewpoint from up in the sky.

And we could just see it is the --

SIDNER: Whoa.

ENTEN: Yes. You could see it here. You know, this is the aggregate of my aggregate of polling data that, you know, you're looking at here. And it's just a steady climb downward into the red sea because Trump's net approval rating hits a new low. You could see it right here, 20 points underwater.

And what you just see on your screen right here is, it's been a steady climb downward. You know, you go back to January of 2025. At the beginning was plus six, then minus six. By May 2025, minus nine, minus 14, minus 15. But over the last few months, as the Iran War has taken shape, as those gas prices have jumped through the roof, Trump has hit a new low. He's at minus 20 points, which is the lowest point of his second term.

SIDNER: So, you talk about this being an aggregate. So, the average of what's happening. What about individual polling? What did you see?

ENTEN: Yes, OK. So, this is the average polling. But I was just thinking, hey, have there been any polls recently in which Trump has not had a negative net approval rating like he does in the aggregate of polling? And you go back in time because this really just sort of takes the cakes. Trump's negative -- a negative net approval rating. Every poll since March 29, 2025, that is over a year ago, you can't find a single poll in which he has anything but a net negative approval rating. That is 413 days in a row. That is more than 365. It is more than a year Trump has been underwater, not just in the aggregate, but every single poll. SIDNER: There is one thing that people have noticed, and this happened

sort of not as much in his last administration, that he's done a lot of things, from tariffs, to the war in Iran. It's not like necessarily things people like, but there have been a lot of moves made by this president.

ENTEN: A lot.

SIDNER: Doesn't -- hasn't that helped him at all, or it has actually done the opposite?

ENTEN: Yes, yes, exactly right. It's done the exact opposite because you see this, every single poll for over a year, 413 days. And you go to yourself, you know what the most important thing is when it comes to presidential politics? Pretty much all the time, it's the economy, smarty, right over there.

And you just look right at this and you say, the net effect on your personal finances, the best of the group is the tax law, right? That's 16 points underwater. How about tariffs? Forty-nine points underwater. How about the Iran War? That affecting on finances? Sixty-seven points underwater. No wonder Trump is underwater in every single poll. No wonder he's hitting new lows in the aggregate. Because when it comes to the economy, the reason he won a second term, all of the signature pieces of either legislation or events, he is underwater by a ton.

[08:45:08]

I mean 67 points underwater. Whoosh.

SIDNER: Yes. That's because people are paying $4.50 plus a gallon on average.

ENTEN: Yes.

SIDNER: That's part of it.

Harry Enten, it's good to see you on this Friday, but I'm also really glad it's Friday.

ENTEN: I am also glad. Good Shabbat.

SIDNER: All right. Thank you.

Kate.

BOLDUAN: The Supreme Court says that for now women can still access Mifepristone through telehealth appointments and get the pill by mail. But that is not the end of the legal saga now over the widely used abortion medication. The justices did not rule on the merits of this case, at least yet. It was brought by the Louisiana attorney general. Instead, the high court sent it back down to the lower courts for litigation to continue, and it then told the conservative Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals that its order restricting access to the medication nationwide would remain blocked in the meantime. On May 1st, the same court had ruled that women would need an in

person doctors visit to get the medication, setting off a wave of confusion and concern as medication abortions account for more than 60 percent of abortions in the United States. The brief order from the Supreme Court didn't give the vote count, if you will, but Justice Thomas and Justice Alito did write a dissent, calling this abortion method a, quote, "scheme to undermine our decision overturning Roe versus Wade."

Also, nearly a year after Trump Mobile started taking $100 deposits for its gold-plated phone, the company launched by -- at least in part by the president's sons, now says that it will finally start shipping this week. The timing, to some, curious. It comes just after new reports surfaced highlighting that the phone's pre-order terms changed to now say deposit did not guarantee a phone would actually be produced. That did not sit well with a lot of customers. And then the first update in six months appeared. Their $499 phones are coming, but with changes. The android device is expected to have a smaller screen and less memory than previously promised. Trump Mobile also dropped its original "made in the USA" label, now using language like, designed with American values in mind. Some analysts note a -- what they say is a striking resemblance between the phones and the Chinese made phones sold at Walmart for less than $200. Trump Mobile's CEO blamed the delay on tech issues, saying this. "The technology business is more difficult than some may realize as parts must be tested for quality assurances."

Sara.

SIDNER: All right. Thank you so much, Kate.

Ahead, swiping is out. A.I. is in. How the future of dating may not involve humans at all.

And a fashion faux pas. A guy just trying to get to the beach accidentally ends up in the middle of a fashion show. He looks pretty good. Very beachy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:51:54]

BOLDUAN: Today is Jerome Powell's last day after eight years at the helm of the Federal Reserve. Kevin Warsh, now confirmed by the Senate to take the reins. Powell isn't leaving the central bank entirely, of course. He has said that he's staying on as a governor on the Fed's board until he determines that the federal investigation of him is truly over.

Now, Warsh's confirmation comes as the U.S. economy has been rattled, as we have seen in recent data. Inflation inching higher. New data just this week shows that American's wages are no longer outpacing inflation, with inflation rising to 3.8 percent in April, the highest in three years.

President Trump has publicly stated that he wants Warsh to cut interest rates. But can he with numbers coming in like this?

Let's talk about what this day means and this new era will be looking like. Joining me right now is Jared Bernstein, the former chair of the White House Council of Economic Advisers under President Biden.

It's good to see you.

What is the Kevin Warsh era going to look like, in your view?

JARED BERNSTEIN, FORMER CHAIR, WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS: Well, I think for Kevin Warsh, we're in a little bit of this space, like the old joke says, the dog's chasing the bus. And you ask the dog, what are you going to do when you catch it?

As your introduction suggested, he's really in a wedge here. His -- the president insists that he cut interest rates, but there's literally nobody on the FOMC, the open market committee board, that's going to be willing to go along with him on that. And certainly he doesn't want to dissent on his first vote to be the only guy there wanting an interest rate cut. So, I think initially out of the gate he's going to have to do some really careful, strategic kind of tap dancing to signal Trump that he's still his guy, but that he is aware of all the things you said in your introduction, especially the inflationary pressures on this economy. I think over the longer term, there are a number of things that he's going to try to do to move a kind of regime shift in the way the Fed does its business. But out of the gate, he's in a -- he's in a bit of a bind.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

Another big aspect of the economy that we talk so much about is trade and tariffs. President Trump was just on -- is on Air Force One and just told reporters coming out of his meeting with Chinese Leader Xi Jinping, that they did not discuss tariffs during their two days of talks, Jared. He was asked if he was able to get an agreement to extend the kind of year-long truce of the trade war that was, you know, went to like the extreme with China at a moment -- at one point. And Trump's response was, "we didn't discuss tariffs. We didn't discuss it. It wasn't brought up." And I just wonder, how?

BERNSTEIN: Yes. I'm sure you're not the only one wondering that. Americans who are facing higher prices in the aisles of Walmart and Target and any place else where we buy imports, many of which, of course, come from China, are asking the same question.

[08:55:00]

And that is when they're not asking the question about, when are my gas prices going to start getting back to where we'd like them to be?

So, these inflationary pressures has been something that Trump has consistently tuned out, I think at great expense to his approval, as we heard in your last segment.

Now, when it comes to tariffs, President Trump is very aware -- you know, he always likes to talk about who's holding the cards. He knows that China and President Xi hold very important cards when it comes to something that sounds obscure but isn't. And that's rare earths. A set of minerals that China refines 90 percent of that are essential for American production, whether it's electronics, autos, whether it's much of our defense equipment. And the fact that China has such control over those rare earths and that we need those exports from them in our production makes those tariff conversations uniquely tough for Trump. And he knows that.

BOLDUAN: Yes, you mentioned gas prices. You, like anyone who worked in the Biden administration, knows that how you address and how you talk about prices, affordability, is critical. CNN spoke to several Republican lawmakers this week about gas prices. Many of them saying, just hold on and relax.

Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: I think core inflation will continue coming down. We'll get to the other side of this. And I don't know whether it's a few days or a few weeks, we may get a series one, two, more hot inflation numbers. But then I think we're going to see substantial disinflation

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: That's the wrong soundbite. Let me read you what the right soundbite would be. That was the Treasury secretary.

BERNSTEIN: No, no, that was a good soundbite.

BOLDUAN: It was an important one too. But let me play this one now and then you can choose your own adventure on which one you want to address.

BERNSTEIN: OK.

BOLDUAN: How about this.

BERNSTEIN: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. BUDDY CARTER (R-GA): Look, this is not going to last forever. And gas prices are going to go back down.

SEN. BERNIE MORENO (R-OH): So, I think by -- call it Labor Day, it's all in the rearview mirror.

REP. TROY NEHLS (R-TX): So, the fact of the matter is, is everybody relaxed. Fuel prices will go down. Iran's going to end very, very soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: All right, Jared, Bessent on substantial disinflation coming soon, or Republicans saying, relax, prices are all going to be OK. It's kind of all saying a little bit of the same thing. What's your reaction?

BERNSTEIN: Kate, you know, you've set this up correctly when you said, I've been there. I wish I could tell those folks stop trying to talk past the American people. I've tried it, and it doesn't work.

The fact is, the reason I like your Bessent quote, it's a little bit of inside baseball, but he really lost the public when he mentioned core inflation. He said core inflation is coming down. Well, first of all, core inflation is not coming down. It's been high and sticky. Core inflation leaves out gas and food, OK. So, try telling the American people, hey, we're fine, except for the prices of gas and food.

And by the way, food pressures are equally in the mix right now. That -- grocery prices are going up again. Same thing with the other clips you played. The idea that you can tell people, hey, don't worry, affordability, it's a hoax or it's going away or it'll be fine in a couple of weeks. People know which way is up when it comes to prices and if kind of a communications track record of the last few years has taught us anything, it's, don't try to tell people they're better off than they think they are.

BOLDUAN: Jared, refreshing self-reflection on a Friday is always something I appreciate. And I really, really appreciate it. It's good to see you.

BERNSTEIN: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: Thank you very much for coming on.

Sara.

SIDNER: That was refreshing. He's like, listen, I've been there and done that. I'm just letting you know, don't do it. Doesn't work. All right.

We're tracking some dangerous, multi-day, severe weather taking aim right now at the central and northern plains. It starts today with Iowa and includes much of Des Moines under a level three risk for damaging winds and large hail.

Let's go to CNN's Allison Chinchar. She is tracking all of this for us.

What are you seeing?

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Right. So, one of those storms that is going to bring some strong to severe thunderstorms later today actually ended up producing this yesterday. Look at this. This is a dust storm in North Dakota. This is looking out of a window, but it's very hard to see anything in front of you because of how thick that dust actually was.

Now, like I said, that particular system that caused a lot of that dust is this one right here, this loop, the swirly thing that you can see here. That's what ended up causing all of that dust across North Dakota. That's, in turn, going to cause some severe thunderstorms. And then right behind it, we have another system that is going to cause additional severe thunderstorms as we head into the weekend.

So, beginning today, this is where the focus for the severe weather is going to be, right there across portions of the Midwest, down through areas of the Plains, all the way back down through Texas. The main concern is really going to be Iowa. That's where we have the greatest threat for those damaging winds. You're talking 60, maybe even 70 miles per hour. We can't rule out the potential for some large hail, especially through some of those stronger supercells that may develop here in this yellow area.

[08:59:59]

But again, this is going to be day one of a multi-day event. You'll see a lot of those showers and thunderstorms beginning to fire up late this afternoon. They will continue through the evening hours and even into the overnight. So, please make