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Pope Leo Warns of Rise of AI-Directed Warfare; Global AI Arms Race Raises Concerns Over Lack of Guardrails; Trump Says He Doesn't Think About Americans' Finances When Negotiating with Iran; Auditions for the Next James Bond are Officially Underway. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired May 15, 2026 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Pope Leo is speaking out on the rise of artificial intelligence and offering a warning on how the technology is transforming global warfare.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yes, according to the Associated Press, the first American pontiff is now calling for better tracking of how AI is being developed for military use. So quote, "... that it does not absolve humans of responsibility for their choices and does not exacerbate the tragedy of conflicts."

We're joined now by journalist and CNN contributor Kara Swisher to talk a little bit about this. Kara, great to see you.

KARA SWISHER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Nice to see you.

KEILAR: And of course, the Pope has been -- yes, the Pope has been pretty out front in raising questions about AI. Do you think that more leaders should be following suit and how?

SWISHER: Well, it's the actually right thing for him to do because there's a lot of implications that aren't just, you know, business, you know, as everyone thinks it is, it has to do with the whole of humanity. And so this is something called human centered AI. And he wasn't the only one to talk about this.

People like one of the original AI sort of godparents, Fei-Fei Lee, has talked about it. A lot of people have and more leaders should be talking about it. Some politicians are, but I think it should include religious leaders.

It shouldn't include politicians. It should include civic leaders. Everyone should understand this has implications for all of us.

And I think the Pope taking a leadership position is really important here.

SANCHEZ: There's obviously a difference between taking a leadership position and being outward and public with what you think the guardrails should be. And then there's actually putting guardrails in place, a.k.a. legislation, regulation. It's kind of hard to imagine Congress doing that, given that so few politicians, as you noted, have spoken out about AI.

And a lot of them, let's be honest, they're not familiar with technology. I think back to hearings about text messages and the Internet being kind of funny and just how little grasp they had on technology.

SWISHER: Well --

SANCHEZ: Go ahead.

SWISHER: I think we need to leave that behind. I think that was Orrin Hatch, and he's no longer with us. And so I think most politicians do understand the implications of technology, and they have staff that do.

So I don't think they're unable to do so. They regulate planes. Many of them don't know how to fly. I think government has a huge role to play here.

And it's really good that other leaders in our society also have something to say about it, because it does have profound implications on humanity, including especially around war. How should war be conducted?

And so this is, again, it's a humanity-focused AI versus an AI that decides what and how we're going to live. And so I think that's a really important thing. And, you know, the Catholic Church has been much more involved in science and talking about science for many years. We're well beyond Galileo, by the way.

And so I think they've always leaned into various technologies and things that are happening. And so I think it's totally appropriate here.

But I do think our leaders, our political leaders, can absolutely begin to regulate AI versus the Wild West approach that the Trump administration has taken here.

KEILAR: Yes, we do see that sometimes, right? And with the way social media has been regulated and some of the slowness that Congress has sometimes shown when it comes to those kinds of issues. I do wonder, Kara, when we're talking about how people feel about AI, they're pretty scared about it. A New Gallup poll shows 7 in 10 Americans oppose constructing data centers for AI in their area.

[15:35:00]

That's really obviously an issue. That's a kitchen table issue. But more polls show that people really, they're afraid of it. Is there opposition and fear warranted?

SWISHER: Yes, absolutely. Any of these technologies have huge implications. Oddly enough, spiritual, what are we?

What are humans? What part should human humanity play? Should we be controlled by machines? These are age old questions in a lot of ways, since, you know, first technology started to be invented, the car, the plane, everything else. And so I think one of the things that the tech industry tries to do is just let us tell you how to do this. We're the gods and we're going to tell you.

And you saw Elon Musk was just tweeting up a storm about how without rich people, we'd be nothing. And that's just ridiculous. It's just a ridiculous attitude.

And you know what Jesus said about rich people. He definitely had some thoughts on that. And I think it's really important to actually take our cues from all over the place.

As for Congress, it's done nothing. It's done nothing but let tech people run the show. And last I heard, they weren't elected anything except rich.

And so I have no problem with people making money. I just have a problem with them telling me how to live and how to live my life. And so people are expressing normal concerns about technologies that could have a massive impact socially from a job point of view, politically, obviously, and the wealth gap.

And that's a topic that the Catholic Church has talked about quite a lot, actually.

SANCHEZ: Speaking of how you choose to live your life, there's the back to back finale of the CNN original series, Kara Swisher wants to live forever where you take on death. You've met with billionaires, believers, even an AI version of yourself, while you reflected on whether or not immortality really is the key to life. Let's watch a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SWISHER: They, they talk about living forever.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To what end?

SWISHER: To what end, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To what end. My fear in an immortal Jeff Bezos or an immortal Elon Musk is that their extended lives, matched with their political and financial power, would mean, I think, more misery for human beings and for the planet itself.

SWISHER: So when you think about technology used to extend life, for example, because that's moving into God's territory, presumably, what worries you the most?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am worried this about the same things that AI worries me. That is that it will have the biases of the people that create it, that it will value the people that those people value and it will devalue people like me and people like you. My fear is that in extending life, they will extend only the lives that they find to be most valuable. And they are bold to write and to say white men.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SANCHEZ: What's your perspective on the danger of pursuing immortality?

SWISHER (on camera): I just feel like, you know, if you believe in God and some people do, some people don't, but they're certainly not gods. And so no one should live forever. And biology is undefeated.

And one of the last two episodes, one is focusing in on the science and all the amazing things technology is doing around mRNA technology, GLP ones, all kind of CRISPR, all manner of things. The last part is about how do we how should we live on this planet? How should we think of our lives and how should we think about leaving something behind?

And what is immortality? It may be dying and having people remember us. And so I think these questions should be asked because a lot of these people are making decisions about everyone and they don't have any right to.

And so I was trying to get to that and at the same time celebrate the science that could help all of us live better lives for longer amounts of time and give real meaning to living on this planet. And that pastor was amazing. It was an amazing interview because there are religious elements at play here.

SANCHEZ: Yes, no doubt. Some huge questions you're trying to answer. Kara Swisher, thanks so much for joining us.

SWISHER: Huge, very serious person.

SANCHEZ: Be sure to tune in the back to back finale of the CNN original series. "KARA SWISHER WANTS TO LIVE FOREVER" airs Saturday at 9 p.m. Eastern right here on CNN.

[15:40:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: President Trump is on his way back from Beijing following a two summit with Chinese President Xi Jinping. China has a close relationship with Iran. It is the largest buyer of its oil.

And there were hopes that because of that economic link, hopes from the Trump administration, that China perhaps could help break the current stalemate between the U.S. and Iran. But there were no clear breakthroughs on Iran or other thorny issues like tariffs or Taiwan. Instead, it's something Trump said before the trip that has continued to dominate the airwaves and conversations here at home.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, to what extent are Americans' financial situations motivating you to make a deal? DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Not even a little bit. The only thing that matters when I'm talking about Iran, they can't have a nuclear weapon. I don't think about Americans' Financial situation. I don't think about anybody. I think about one thing -- we cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon. That's all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: I want to bring in pollster and communication strategist Frank Luntz. I do not think about Americans' financial situation, Frank. We were watching that live when he said that and kind of like a buzzer went off to me because Republicans really need to be seen right now as thinking about Americans' financial situations.

They really need to be seen as that. Should they be worried about this statement kind of coloring voters' perceptions of them?

FRANK LUNTZ, POLLSTER AND COMMUNICATION STRATEGIST: It was clunky. It was a mistake. It was clunky.

[15:45:00]

I don't believe that he actually meant it that way. I don't think he would say it that way again, that he was trying to communicate, which is important to understand the intent, that when it comes to national security, that's job number one. It's the first and foremost responsibility of the commander in chief.

And then all these other aspects of it, which makes life easier for Americans, is secondary. That's not how it came out. I understand what was meant.

But in the end, we expect, at a minimum, for the American people to be safe and secure in their homes and their neighborhoods. And he probably wishes he hadn't said it.

KEILAR: Yes. I wonder if you think he's adequately communicated why this war will, in his opinion, make Americans safer and more secure, as probably the really dominant worry in their daily lives right now -- so many of them, and they're reporting this -- is, you know, they're filling up their gas tank, or they're buying groceries, and it's just so horrendously expensive. Do you think that Americans can be convinced that that maybe short-term pain -- I don't know, it seems a little open-ended -- is actually going to be OK for them?

LUNTZ: The challenge for him is that he's never done it to the degree that the American people want. Your question is a very good one, because in the end, more people supported the Iraqi war, more people supported the Afghani war, at the beginning. Or the war on terror, than support this war.

And in fact, the difference is surprisingly large, that from the very beginning, so many Americans opposed this effort. Now, make no mistake, if Iran still has the capability, the nuclear capability, Americans will want that eliminated. They do not trust Iran. They do not believe that we are safe if they have nuclear weapons. The president has tried several times to clarify too many points in his speech, too many arguments, when it would have been much simpler and more effective to simply have one or two. And when you combine it with affordability, which the public is clearly agitated over, it makes the argument weaker.

That said, I'm always asked about the impact on the midterms. And there is so much time between now and then that I don't believe it will have a significant impact. But at some point, the president needs to communicate not only his desire, his intention to address the affordability issue, but he has to show some success.

And just saying it is not enough. He has to actually do something, communicate that he's done something on it.

KEILAR: I want you to listen to a moment. I know it's only 2026, but Trump started the week polling a Rose Garden audience on whether Vance or Rubio should head the 2028 presidential ticket. Here's the moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Who likes J.D. Vance?

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: Who likes Marco Rubio?

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: All right. Sounds like a good ticket, J.D. It's a perfect -- that was a perfect ticket. By the way, I do believe that's a dream team, but these are minor details.

That does not mean you have my endorsement under any circumstance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What do you think of that moment?

LUNTZ: I just I ask you with a single word. Why? Why do you want to create division in your own administration?

Why do you want to create competition at the very moment that he's trying to unify the House and Senate for some of the legislation that matters so much to him? Don't do this. But there's no one around him who's going to say, no, this is foolish.

I understand he's provocative. I understand he likes this tumult. But there are better ways to govern and more effective ways to govern.

And he's going to want to get serious, going to want to get focused over the next few months, because his House and Senate majorities are at stake and they will not be strengthened by playing around like that.

KEILAR: Frank Luntz, thanks for joining us. Really appreciate it.

LUNTZ: Thanks for having me.

KEILAR: Daniel Craig is out. So who's in? After the break the top contenders to take over the coveted role of 007 as the worldwide search begins.

[15:50:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SANCHEZ: Bond, James Bond. For more than 60 years, we've heard those famous words from legendary actors like Daniel Craig, Roger Moore, of course, my personal GOAT, Sean Connery. And now the search is on for the next 007.

KEILAR: Amazon MGM Studios has officially begun holding auditions for its new Bond film and A-listers like Idris Elba, Henry Cavill, Cillian Murphy. They've all been floated to play Hollywood's most famous spy, along with Callum Turner, Aaron Taylor-Johnson, Harris Dickinson, and Australian star Jacob Elordi. And I think I butchered half those names.

I need to get out more and need to go see some movies.

SANCHEZ: Cillian Murphy.

KEILAR: Did I screw that up?

SANCHEZ: I honestly have no idea.

KEILAR: All right, Matt Mira, co-host of the James Bonding podcast.

MATT MIRA, CO-HOST, JAMES BONDING PODCAST: It's a hot seat.

KEILAR: I hope I didn't mess up your name too, Matt. I love having you here, though.

MIRA: It's Mira.

KEILAR: Mira, of course. Everything.

MIRA: It's Friday.

KEILAR: It's not a hard one, Matt. I'm just having a tough day.

MIRA: No, I was saying the hard C on Cillian.

KEILAR: It's Cillian. I knew it wasn't Chillian.

SANCHEZ: I like Chillian better.

KEILAR: I knew it was something.

OK, Matt. First off, I mean, this is like a big role. What's riding on this pic? MIRA: It's huge. Everything.

[15:55:00]

I mean, it cost Amazon, you know, billions of dollars to take over the creative control from the Broccoli family.

It's going to be the first movie done without a Broccoli. It cost Amazon, you know, billions of dollars to take over the creative control from the Broccoli family. It's going to be the first movie done without a Broccoli at the helm, be it Cubby or later his stepson, Michael G. Wilson, and his daughter, Barbara Broccoli. They have had the reins for this franchise since 1962. They have given it up to Amazon to focus on other projects.

Michael was retiring. And this is really Amazon's first big swing at a franchise that everyone knows.

KEILAR: Yes.

SANCHEZ: So we laid out some names there. Do you have a dog in this fight? Is there anyone you think is the favorite right now to be the next 007?

MIRA: You know, it's going to be an interesting sort of move. I think Amazon might want to put their own stamp on it and find somebody we don't know yet. And find somebody who might not be an A-list.

Because I think when you cast an A-list actor in the role of James Bond, they're going to bring with them every previous role we've ever seen them in. Any personality they might have, you're going to wind up thinking of the actor. Like, I'd be like, oh, it's Henry Cavill. It's Superman. I wouldn't be thinking, oh, it's James Bond.

You know, so you want to think about -- who I personally would go for right now. I'd go a little younger. You want, you know, I loved the idea of Idris Elba, but I think he's too old at this point.

SANCHEZ: Wow.

MIRA: You know --

SANCHEZ: You wouldn't want to see Stranger Things as 007?

MIRA: Unless they wanted to do an old -- I wanted to see him as 007 like 15 years ago. You know? Like, I think, because they've already gone and done the thing no one ever thought they would do, which was kill James Bond in the last movie. Spoiler alert.

There was time to die and it was the end of the movie. And yes, they killed the character already. So if you didn't want an older James Bond, which I feel like they don't, I feel like they want to go a little bit younger.

I think they'd be looking at someone probably in their 30s, who I really liked was Josh O'Connor. I don't know if you guys saw him in the Knives Out sequel, Wake Up Dead Man. He played the priest in that movie.

He is, not only was he doing a great American accent, because I was like, this guy is doing such a good American accent. He must be British. And he was.

Oh, I like it. You're looking him up.

KEILAR: I looked him up.

MIRA: He's got that, he's got that -- he's got the nose of a boxer, you know? And I think there needs to be a little bit of that hard edge to James Bond again. Like Connery.

I thought Connery was probably -- I agree with you, Boris. I think Connery is my James Bond. I mean, he's just -- he was, he was mine.

You can't, you can, I'll share him with the world, I guess. But on a personal level, like if you read the books, if you read the Ian Fleming books, he's a -- you just need a dark, broken man who is not great at being a person but is fantastic at operating under his majesty's secret service now. It'll be the first time James Bond's worked for a king.

Isn't that crazy?

KEILAR: That's true. That's a good point. If they said it, you know, current, present day, right? So not a Pierce Brosnan. You're saying maybe not as sleek, suave. I get what you're saying.

That's really interesting. So, OK. We do know some things though.

Here's what we know. Yes, it's unnamed. It's uncast. We don't know who 007 is going to be. We do know it's going to be directed by Oscar nominated Dennis Villeneuve. So what does that tell you?

What should we expect from that?

MIRA: I love it because he's a nerd. He did Dune. Like Dune is, I think the reference that that man showed for the Dune book, he will then bring to the canon of James Bond.

And I've read some quotes from him. He's saying all the right things about how he used to watch these films with his father when he was growing up and how he respects and reveres and treats it as an honor to be taking on the mantle of helming the next James Bond movie. Like you're saying all the right things.

And I think that it's in really good hands. He was such a -- I hadn't even had him on my radar because we had previously gone from the Sam Mendes movies with Craig. And then the last one with, oh my God, who did the last one?

He was great. He did True Detective. I can't remember his name, but also, he was very stylistic.

But I think David is going to bring with it a real reverence that I feel like we haven't had. Because you also have the Broccoli family with their stamp on it this whole time. So it's going to be really interesting to see what they do with it.

I'm surprised they haven't just made it an Amazon series.

KEILAR: Yes. There's always time, Matt.

SANCHEZ: Well, thankful they haven't.

MIRA: There is.

[16:00:00]

KEILAR: Matt Mira, it is just so great to have you. It's been fascinating. Thanks for coming on.

MIRA: Thanks for having me. And I look forward to coming back on when they finally figure out who the next James Bond is. Boris, you're pretty good, though.

I think --

SANCHEZ: No, Dr. Evil.

MIRA: I think a bald James Bond is in.

SANCHEZ: I would rather be Dr. Evil. Give me a hairless cat and mini- me. I'd rather be Dr. Evil.

"THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

END