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Bondi Blames Blanche for Handling of Epstein Files; Dems Cooke and Berge Vying to Face GOP Rep. Van Orden in Wisconsin; Anthropic Warning on Implications of A.I. Ability to Code Itself. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired June 05, 2026 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[08:31:43]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, this morning, what some see as a new blame game erupting over the Jeffrey Epstein investigation fired Attorney General Pam Bondi, seeming to point the finger at the man President Trump wants to replace her permanently. In a newly released transcript, Bondi told Congress that Todd Blanche, the president's new pick to lead the Justice Department permanently, was personally in charge of the handling of the Epstein files. And of course, the entire release has been widely criticized.

With us now, Tom Dupree, the former Deputy Assistant Attorney General during the George W. Bush administration.

Counselor, always great to see you. Let me just read one quote from the transcripts. It's the type of thing that has people talking about this. This had to do when she was asked a question about redactions inside the Epstein files.

But this was Pam Bondi's response, quote, "he,' Todd Blanche, 'was in charge of the process and the entire release of the Epstein files."

So, when you read through this, where does it seem like she's trying to point the finger? What's she trying to do with these responses?

TOM DUPREE, FORMER PRINCIPAL DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, this is the revenge of Pam Bondi in some sense. And look, there's no question she went into this testimony or this interview with a mission to make clear that she had very limited involvement in the mismanagement of the Epstein files release and that the guy who was at the helm was Todd Blanche.

It's not a surprise to me that the deputy attorney general would be primarily responsible for managing the day-to-day rollout of the Epstein files. That's typically not something that would be personally handled by an attorney general. It is something that I think a deputy would handle. But the extent at every turn to which Pam Bondi basically said, you got to talk to Todd Blanche. It was Todd who did this. Todd, who was responsible for this. That struck me. That struck me as pretty, pretty important. BERMAN: So, this is interesting to me. So, it was the sort of the

quantity here. You feel like she did this more than what you would just do naturally if you're explaining the organizational structure inside the Justice Department.

DUPREE: That's exactly right. Look again, I think there's no question Blanche did manage this rollout on a day-to-day basis. But I think Pam Bondi, when she's testifying, could have taken a different approach. She could have said, yes, look, Todd was responsible for this, but it was done under my supervision. I was the attorney general. I was the captain of the ship, even though I personally didn't make every single decision about what gets redacted and what doesn't.

Todd did it all under my supervision and under my direction. And I, Pam Bondi, am ultimately responsible. She didn't say that. She basically disassociated herself from the process. She stepped back. She distanced herself. But she identified the person that Congress might want to follow up with, maybe in his upcoming confirmation hearing, the current acting attorney general of the United States, Todd Blanche.

BERMAN: I just want to read you a response from Pam Bondi this morning. She is reacting. This was on social media, to a specific suggestion that she was pointing the finger at Todd Blanche. She said, "Not true. I praised acting A.G. Blanche's management of this Herculean task. I said his ethics are beyond reproach and that he's an incredible Attorney General."

What fodder, though, if you were a Democrat on Senate Judiciary who will be holding the hearings for Todd Blanche for his confirmation as, you know, full time attorney general, how much fodder did the former attorney general give you? Would you be reading from her transcript when questioning him when he's in the hot seat?

[08:35:10]

DUPREE: Oh, absolutely. Look, I think this is going to be number one or close to number one of the topics that the Senate investigates with Todd Blanche during his hearing. And I think what they will do, as you suggested, is go through page-by-page Pam Bondi's testimony and say, here's what she said. She says you were in charge. Do you deny that?

And if he admits that he was in charge, as I suspect he will, well, then I think the Democrats and probably some Republicans, too, will have some pretty tough follow up questions for him. I think Pam Bondi's testimony gave Todd Blanche very little wiggle room during his confirmation hearing to distance himself from this process based on what Pam Bondi said. He's pretty much going to have to own this.

BERMAN: It's an interesting point. We'll see how he responds to that under oath during this testimony.

Tom Dupree, great to see you. Thank you very much.

Kate?

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: That was great. Thanks, J.B.

Today, President Trump is traveling to Wisconsin to meet with farmers for a roundtable in Chippewa Falls, and it comes also as this battleground state gets ready for its critical primary election day in two months from now.

Republican Congressman Derrick Van Orden is one of the biggest targets for Democrats right now as a pickup. He currently represents Wisconsin's third district. That district, according to "Politico," has about 17,000 farms and is huge when it comes to the milk production that is coming out of that state.

Farmers are among those hardest hit by some of President Trump's economic policies right now. First, there were the sweeping tariffs, and now spiking fuel and fertilizer prices are due to the supply crisis created by the war with Iran.

Now, Rebecca Cooke and Emily Berge are the Democrats who are running, vying for a chance to take on Republican Congressman Van Orden in the general.

Joining us right now is Rebecca Cooke. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate this. This is quite a day. You've got President Trump coming for the first time this term to Wisconsin. What does his visit mean for your race? Does his coming, do you think, help or challenge your chance if you do have the opportunity to take on Van Orden?

REBECCA COOKE, (D) WISCONSIN CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Look, I think they're, you know, calling in the Calgary here. You know, Derrick Van Orden had RFK Jr. here in the district on Monday. President Trump is coming today, and I think what's really clear as I'm talking with voters around this district is how harmful this administration's policies have, in particular, been to farmers.

This is a personal issue for me. I grew up on a dairy farm, actually, in Chippewa County. I grew up showing cows in 4-H, and we had to sell our cows because of the price of milk and competition with larger dairies. So, the struggle that Wisconsin farmers have been facing isn't necessarily new, but it's compounded and gotten even worse with the administration and the policies related to the tariffs, health care, war in Iran, you name it, so.

BOLDUAN: All right, I wanted to focus in on farmers, because that is the focus for the president today. It's something you have lived and know. I just had the former vice president, Mike Pence, on the show, and he said that the heartland -- how he talks about it. He was talking about Iowa specifically, though. He said the heartland is hurting, and that's a problem for Republicans this cycle. Let me play this.

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MIKE PENCE (R), FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: The result in Iowa should be somewhat telling. The fact that Randy Feenstra was endorsed by President Trump, and his opponent focused more on Iowa first as a message, I think suggests that there's concern in the heartland, particularly on the farm, Kate, for the impact of broad-based tariffs, the rising input costs for farmers.

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BOLDUAN: So, Mike Pence is seeing it. You say that you are seeing it. Do you think that is going to mean that Republican voters in the state are going to vote for you, or do you think that it is -- what do you think the real impact is here? Because it's one thing to say they might not -- they might just stay home when it comes to a midterm election. It's another to say that they're going to vote for another party.

COOKE: I think, you know, and I think this is where leaning into my background and lived experiences, I think, connects with people. We've built a broad base of support here in this district. Last cycle, I outperformed every Democrat on the ticket, including Harris by 9,000 votes and our Senator Tammy Baldwin by 5,000 votes, and it's because we showed up in rural communities and working-class spaces that, historically, the Democratic Party has been leaving behind.

And we ran a really value-centered campaign, talking about the things that we knew were really keeping people up at night and speaking to some of those failed policies and how things could look different if you voted for a Democrat. No one voted for this. They voted for what was, they thought, an America first agenda. And these reciprocal tariffs have been horrible.

[08:40:11]

The squeeze with the ACA, in particular, too, the failure to expand the tax credit premiums have also hurt farmers. So, it's not just diesel prices, the squeeze with the ACA, in particular, too, the failure to expand the tax credit premiums have also hurt farmers. So, it's not just diesel prices, fertilizer prices, and the tariffs, but it also comes back to health care as well.

BOLDUAN: Because I was going to ask you, this is your third time running for the seat, your second time against, trying to be against, Van Orden. And what is, do you think, or would you, what is going to be different this time?

COOKE: Yeah, I mean, I think it's the environment for sure, but look, like, our message has been resonating all the way through, and it is talking about those very economic issues, those pocketbook issues that are concerning people. They're looking for something to be hopeful again. These policies that the Trump administration have executed in this district have been harmful not just to farmers, but to so many people.

You have a huge health care issue in this district, not just a cost issue, but an access issue. We've had two hospitals closed. That was before the reconciliation bill. Things are getting harder for our rural hospitals to stay open. And people are really just being squeezed, squeezed, squeezed at every turn. And there's only one party that's got majorities to be accountable for that. BOLDUAN: Yeah, rural health care and what has happened to rural hospitals is real. It is -- it is very real.

Thank you for coming on. I appreciate your time.

John?

BERMAN: All right, breaking news, the May jobs report just in. We're looking at the numbers and they are good. Let's get right to CNN's Matt Egan for the latest on this and pretty good jobs numbers.

MATT EGAN, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Yeah, absolutely. John, look, this report, it really crushed expectations. And it's painting the picture of a job market that is really stabilized after a week, 2025. And it might even be re-accelerating. So, let's go through the numbers. The U.S. economy adding last month 172,000 jobs. That is well ahead of the forecast, which was for 105,000. There were some major banks that were forecasting a much, much lower number than that. So, this is a very solid number.

And also we had some revisions to the prior months that went in the right direction. March was revised modestly higher to a very strong number of 214,000. April was sharply revised higher to 179,000. So, now we have three straight months where the U.S. economy has added at least 100,000 jobs. That is very significant. That's something that we haven't seen since early 2024.

And again, that does suggest that there's been some stabilization. And you can see that those are job gains looking back for the last year or two. And there were some bars that went down because there was outright job loss.

But now things do appear to be moving in the right direction. The unemployment rate, it remained low, right? It was supposed to stay at 4.3 percent. It did stay there. We have not seen this big increase in the unemployment rate that would suggest major problems. In fact, as you can see on that chart, the unemployment rate has come down a bit from those higher levels last year.

So, where are the jobs? Well, I think the good news is that there's been more widespread job growth than in the past. It's not just health care. It is health care. Health care added another 35,000. But it's not just that. It's also government, which is interesting, adding more than 50,000. I've got to dig into how much of that is federal, how much of that state and local. But that's a big number.

Leisure and hospitality, adding 70,000 jobs. There's been some economists who suggested that maybe the World Cup could actually cause an increase in hiring. We'll have to see if that's the case. But that's a really strong number as well.

Transportation, though, only adding 600 jobs. That may, in part, reflect the fact that there was the Spirit Airlines shutdown and that killed about 17,000 jobs. Information that includes tech lost 2,000 jobs. That sector has been impacted by the adoption of artificial intelligence. Now, here's the problem, though. Wages, right? Wages are still going

up. The average annual wages were up by 3.4 percent. That's a solid number in a vacuum. But we can't look at this in a vacuum. We've got to look at it measured against inflation.

And the forecast for inflation from the Cleveland Fed for this month is 4.2 percent. So, that means that for the typical worker, their paychecks are not keeping up with prices. Their purchasing power is actually going down. So, look, good news on job growth, good news on unemployment. Wages, that continues to be a big problem.

BERMAN: Yeah, not enough to overcome the inflationary pull right now. Madigan, thank you very much for that update.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: There's also a new warning today coming from one of the company's leading the A.I. revolution. And the warning is that A.I. needs a brake pedal. Anthropic is calling for top A.I. labs to consider slowing down their pace of development, saying A.I. models are advancing so rapidly they may soon be able to improve themselves without any human intervention.

And they warn that humans could then lose control of A.I. systems. Anthropic's co-founder Jack Clark joined Anderson Cooper last night to talk about it.

[08:45:06]

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JACK CLARK, ANTHROPIC CO-FOUNDER AND HEAD OF POLICY: We read the science fiction and watch science fiction here as well. So, it's not lost on us, but this is how some of the stories start. And the risk here is what happens if you can't validate or verify or trust the behavior of these systems? It would be like if we dropped the story start. And the risk here is what happens if you can't validate or verify or trust the behavior of these systems? It would be like if we dropped hundreds or thousands of new colleagues into your newsroom.

It would take you a while to figure out if you can trust them, if they work in the way that you expect, if when you ask them to do things, they come back with something that you think is good and in line of your expectations. That's one of the challenges here. How do you maintain control over -- over fleets of scientists that are much, much larger and much faster than ones you've had before?

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BOLDUAN: Joining us now is Madison Mills, senior A.I. reporter for "Axios." There you are, Madison. There was a bit of a glitch in the matrix for a second, but I think we're together now.

What do you what do you think of this? What is recursive self- improvement? Why does Anthropic really think it is so dangerous? Talk to me more about this. MADISON MILLS, SENIOR A.I. REPORTER, AXIOS: So, recursive self- improvement, this idea that the A.I. models can make themselves better. But critically, recursive self-improvement is not AGI. And that is the other kind of big shoe to drop. When Jack Clark talks about this sci-fi future that we could be entering, that's when we hit AGI and recursive self-improvement is a step in that process. But all of my sources are telling me that we are still in the early innings of the A.I. getting us to that AGI level, which is where it would be a little bit more like that sci-fi future with recursive self- improvement. You're talking about A.I. that can essentially code itself, make itself even better.

And that's a big deal for people who are software engineers, coders, people who work at these A.I. labs. It's not necessarily going to create this like scary robotic future overnight. A lot of people telling me this morning that's more of a sales pitch from Anthropic than something that everyday people need to be worried about.

BOLDUAN: AGI for the everyday people is artificial general intelligence. It's what it's like -- it's like they're out there. That's what they've been talking about for some time.

So, Clark also told "BBC" right now it's like the A.I. industry is a gas pedal, but it doesn't have a brake pedal. And I think this gets to the question that has been around for the beginning of this, which is what is the appropriate brake pedal? Like, what are they actually talking about and who should be applying that brake pedal? They're talking to other A.I. companies right now. But at some point, where does government regulation come in?

MILLS: Well, and critically, Anthropic and the other A.I. labs have said, hey, government regulate us. We want your regulation. And the reason they want that is because none of them is going to slow down if the others don't.

This is something that we refer to as race conditions in our reporting. When you are, you know, a capitalist society and you have these major businesses that are expecting to IPO a trillion-dollar valuations, Anthropic is not going to slow down if open A.I. doesn't agree to do the same. So that's why both of them are going to Washington asking for regulation.

And the hope is that if there are guardrails in place, it can be applied to all of them so that one of them doesn't get a ding from slowing itself down that another competitor doesn't have to get.

BOLDUAN: It's great to have you, Madison. We could talk about this for so long with you and we will continue to as the revolution continues on. It's great to see you. Thanks so much.

All right. So, coming up so for us, an incredible rescue on Mount Everest, a Sherpa found after spending six days without food or oxygen, the bottled oxygen that they all often so -- so much need. Got more details on how he pulled that off.

And the North remembers Jon Snow and Tyrion Lannister reuniting "Game of Thrones" actors Peter Dinklage and Kit Harington sit down together in the latest "Actors on Actors."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIT HARINGTON, ACTOR: Here's something.

PETER DINKLAGE, ACTOR: Oh boy.

HARINGTON: This is going to be painful for you.

DINKLAGE: Let's embarrass the (bleep) out of each other.

HARINGTON: I am now the age.

DINKLAGE: I hate this thing.

HARINGTON: I am now the age that I want that you were when I first met you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[08:53:09]

BOLDUAN: We are following some breaking news. Actor James Handy has been stabbed to death in his home, at his home in Los Angeles. The 81- year-old actor, best known for appearing in "Top Gun: Maverick" and "Jumanji."

So, here's the thing about it. His girlfriend's son, 44-years-old Michael Gledhill, he's now been arrested for suspicion of murder. And according to the LAPD, officers raced to Handy's home after someone made a disturbing 911 call. And what he said on the call was, "I am the son of man, I just killed the man of sin." Authorities say that Handy was unconscious when they found him and he later died at the hospital.

And there's also this, a remarkable story of survival from Mount Everest. A Sherpa guide who had been missing for nearly a week was feared dead, has been found alive after spending days alone on the mountain without food or the bottled oxygen supplies. The 52-year-old was spotted crawling back toward base camp by a cleanup crew, clearly exhausted, suffering from frostbite, but survived. Family members had actually already begun funeral rites for him before learning that he was alive. He has since been airlifted to a hospital in Nepal for treatment.

John, my God.

BERMAN: That's something. All right. This morning, I just checked, is June 5th officially, that just in, that means it's one month minus one day to the nation's 250th birthday. How it will be celebrated, becoming a bit of an issue, right? The president is now promising a rally to end all rallies, something of a political event. This after a bunch of singers backed out of a concert series because they thought it was too political. Part of the issue here is that there are separate groups planning separate things.

With us now is the Chair of America250, former U.S. Treasurer, Rosie Rios. So, nice to see you this morning. You are the chair of America 250. Explain to me what that is and what it isn't, how it isn't Freedom 250, which is the organization the president backs.

[08:55:15]

ROSIE RIOS, CHAIR, AMERICA250: So, thank you for having me, John. So yes, America250 is a national organization, charged by Congress to plan the nation's 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. It was established by legislation in 2016 as a bipartisan effort. All 24 members of this commission are appointed by the House and Senate majority and minority leaders.

BERMAN: How is that different than Freedom 250?

RIOS: Well, we have a congressional mandate, a legislative mandate to plan the nation's 250th anniversary. And we've been working as a commission since I was on this commission eight years ago, in 2018, appointed as chair in 2022. And we've been hitting the ground running to engage all 350 million Americans in this process. So, remember anything, it's 350 for 250. And we are doing that with our values- based programming. So, no politics, just purpose.

BERMAN: So, again, though, then why is there this confusion? To what extent are these two organizations bumping into each other?

RIOS: Well, we represent all three branches of government by law. And it was actually my recommendation in November of 2024 to President Trump to establish an organization through an executive order to mobilize all the federal agencies. On day 10 of the Trump administration, he issued the executive order forming Task Force 250, which is kind of the government entity representing the executive branch. And so Freedom 250 is kind of a parallel funding mechanism for Task Force 250.

BERMAN: So, if there is this separate rally, and this is not what you guys are doing, not part of American250, but if there is this political rally that the president now says he wants, big thing on the mall, how does that align or not align with the mission that you have all set out to perform?

RIOS: Well, we as a commission have been very, very focused. And the three words that have really guided our planning has been to educate, engage, and unite. And we also have a very big focus on this next generation of leadership. We think this is as much about the future as it is the past. And so our programming is very much focused on really inspiring this next generation. We just launched the winners of our national signature program called America's Field Trip. This is our third round. So, it's not our first radio. Our third round of this national student competition in grades three through 12.

We get to answer the question, what does America mean to me? And in exchange, they can participate in these backstage experiences. Most of it's never been offered to the public before.

We also have programs like America Gives, which we announced on December 31st in Times Square, which aims to make 2026 the largest year of volunteer hours ever recorded in our country's history. It's never happened before. And then we just did a pilot of a very exciting program called America Startup.

This is spotlighting the next generation of entrepreneurs where we are focused specifically on undergrads. We had hundreds, hundreds of colleges and universities represented in this process. We brought 30 semifinalists to Silicon Valley to do their pitch weekend. Ten of those winners received $25,000 of non-dilutive grant funding. What a great way to kind of introduce them to pursue their own American dream.

BERMAN: It should be a great celebration. It's a wonderful cause. It'll be great to see everyone coming together to celebrate the way that you have all planned.

Rosie Rios, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Kate?

BOLDUAN: So, this morning's brand-new episode of "Actors on Actors" takes us back to Westeros for a conversation between "Game of Thrones" stars Peter Dinklage and Kit Harington. Here's a preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DINKLAGE: At the beginning, we had no idea.

HARINGTON: No.

DINKLAGE: It felt really like, is anybody going to watch this show? We knew there was a fan base for the books, but there wasn't like an awareness that I think there is now of, this is going to be a huge show before it even airs. There wasn't a feeling. It was just like the trailers were kind of junky, and we were in the middle of the woods, and it was a really, really well-written show. That's why we were all there. But there was no feeling of this is going to be as huge as it was going to be. Maybe more for us because we had already been through all those things.

I remember back in the day, there was something called pilot season, which you go to L.A. and you read for these TV shows, and then you're going like, I'm a movie actor. I don't want to be on a TV show because that was always, back in my time, that was like something that was like B-level, but that has all changed because all the great writers are going to television like Dave and Dan. So, there's no stigma for it anymore. So, that was a weird sort of entry point for people my generation going into a TV show.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: You can stream the full episode on the CNN app.

A new hour of CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.

[09:00:04]

BERMAN: All right, the breaking news. Brand new jobs numbers just in a big month with solid growth.