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Crucial Hormuz Bypass Threatened; Maine Democrats Rally Behind Troy Jackson; "Punchbowl News" Reporter Andrew Desiderio is Interviewed about the Michigan Senate Race; Poll on What Canadians Think of Trump and the U.S.; Former Immigration Policy Adviser Andrea Flores is Interviewed about Immigration. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired July 22, 2026 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

DAVID GOLDMAN, CNN SENIOR BUSINESS REPORTER: Kind of like a no way out situation. There are four to five million barrels of oil that normally would go through he Strait that are going through this -- well, the Strait of Hormuz, going through the Bab-el-Mandeb Strait every single day, and that is under threat right now.

Now, we've been monitoring the traffic, and you can start to see some of these ships turn around and head out the other way.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: Turning around.

GOLDMAN: Not that -- not because the Houthis are actually doing anything right now, but they have broadcast that they will attack ships. That has certainly scared a lot of ship traffic. Two to three million barrels per day that were destined for Asia. This is the big threat. They might now be under threat. And that could mean higher gas prices. Higher oil prices. $10 perhaps per barrel. We've already seen prices go up $5 just in the past few days. Now we're potentially looking at $100 oil if this becomes the bad situation that we're thinking about. And it's also a big route for diesel.

SIDNER: Yes.

GOLDMAN: And diesel is key because prices --

SIDNER: It fuels business basically.

GOLDMAN: That's exactly right. And everything that's on a ship now.

Now, I can't draw. I need you to do this. It's $5.18 today. That is an enormous price for diesel. Certainly everything that goes on a truck, you're going to have to pay for that.

SIDNER: I'm going to mess with the wall.

GOLDMAN: Please do.

SIDNER: I think we're going to try to go back to the area here. You know, when you were talking about Saudi Arabia, one of the things

that people have been saying about this war in Iran is that eventually they're going to hurt themselves because the Saudis and others will find a different path, maybe through the Red Sea. And now, because Iran has figured this all out and because they have proxies everywhere, this is of concern. It is a real problem.

GOLDMAN: It's a real problem. If you can't get out this way and you can't get out this way --

SIDNER: Right.

GOLDMAN: The only way through is through the Suez Canal. That's not a great way to Asia.

SIDNER: No. All right, thank you, David. I do appreciate it.

GOLDMAN: Thank you.

SIDNER: John.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And keep your mind on that map. We're going to want that again.

With us now, CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier, and CNN military analyst Colonel Cedric Leighton.

Kim, I want to start with you. And if we can put that map back up, because we are just getting word now that four vessels, and David mentioned a couple yesterday, I believe there are four more today that turned around that were headed out the bottom of the screen there, Bab-el-Mandeb, that is the strait between really Yemen and Africa there, where there has been oil passing the last couple months. Four vessels turned around. So, what does that tell you, Kim, now about these concerns of what the Houthis might do?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: The Houthis sent a message directly to shipping companies. And first they said, any Saudi shipping can't come through. And then they said, any ships that dock at a Saudi port. You know, the last time the Houthis did this, though, they didn't just hit the ships that they said they might target, they accidentally hit some other ships as well. So, if you're a shipping company with a multi-million dollar cargo load, you're either going to take it through the Suez Canal, or you're -- if you were going to go through the Suez Canal from the outside, now you're going to go around the horn of Africa.

This adds costs. We're talking about something like 10 to 20 percent of global shipping going through the Suez Canal, which has to get through the Bab-el-Mandeb. This is going to add up pretty fast if there isn't some resolution. And the Houthis have a couple of reasons they're doing this. Part of it is, yes, they're doing this in cooperation with Iran to pressure the United States. But also the internationally recognized Yemeni government, backed by Saudi Arabia, targeted the Houthis airport earlier this month. So, that's -- there's a local reason and a larger reason that the Houthis are getting stuck into this fight.

BERMAN: So, Cedric, what are the range of options that I guess the U.S. would be talking about here has to open this up, although I'm not sure that the U.S. would be involved here directly, would they? Who knows?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, that's a great question, John. One of the key things to remember is that we were involved in opening up the Bab-el-Mandeb and the entrance to the Red Sea just basically, what, over a year ago now. And so that, you know, shows that we have experience in the area, certainly.

And let's look at capabilities. Who else could do this if, you know, if something were to happen where the Houthis came in and shut off the Bab-el-Mandeb? The answer is, the Saudis can't do it. They don't have the capabilities, although they tried to fight the Houthis in the so- called Yemen civil war. That didn't work out for the Saudis.

Then you also have other countries. They don't have all of the capabilities. We did it in tandem with Great Britain and other coalition partners, and that worked well.

[08:35:03]

But we've had to take the lead there.

So, now we are kind of spread thin because we've got the Persian Gulf to worry about, and the Strait of Hormuz. And now we also, just across the peninsula, have the Bab-el-Mandeb possibly being an area that would be cut off.

BERMAN: And if you listen to the president, the United States has to worry about this place called Pickaxe Mountain. And we can throw that up on the screen here so people can see what we're talking about here.

Cedric, why is this a concern and how would the U.S. go after it, as the president has promised?

LEIGHTON: Well, this seems to be one of the preeminent areas for the Iranians to store some of their nuclear materials. So, there's a report that the Iranians have their highly enriched uranium, some of it at least, at Pickaxe Mountain. It's just outside of Natanz, which is another nuclear site. Interestingly enough, Pickaxe Mountain also may have centrifuges. So, these are some of the ingredients that you would need to build a nuclear weapon.

And Pickaxe Mountain is buried under a layer of granite. And then some layers of concrete. And when you look at the tunneling there, it's about 145 meters. So, let's say around almost 400 feet deep. And that, of course, is a significant challenge because if you don't want Iran to have a nuclear weapon, that might be the place that you have to go to.

BERMAN: Yes.

LEIGHTON: But the difficulty is, the weapons that we have may not really be able to finish the job, at least not directly. So, it may require a lot of work, in addition to bombing it from the air.

BERMAN: So, Kim, as long as we're talking about nuclear capabilities, we're learning this morning from "The New York Times," "The Wall Street Journal," and now we have some of our reporting, the U.S. is entering into a deal with Saudi Arabia to create a nuclear program, a civilian nuclear energy program there, though that might eventually allow the Saudis to enrich their own uranium here. Why is that such a big deal?

DOZIER: Now, this is a deal that was discussed in the Biden administration. It's been in the works. It's something that Saudi Arabia has wanted for a long time. And when you look at the energy situation that Saudi Arabia and other gulf countries are facing, eventually the oil will run out and they need different capabilities. So, on one hand, it's a way for the U.S. and Saudi Arabia to increase their business ties, especially at a time when, you know, the U.S. is asking a lot of Saudi Arabia in terms of being under fire from Iran, especially with this new pressure from the Houthis.

On the other hand, it opens the gateway. A civilian nuclear program gives a country all of the capabilities it needs. So, it's not a big leap to get to nuclear weapons. And that's going to be a concern for people who are worried about the whole area running away with, you know, arming with nuclear weapons because of the threat of Iran.

BERMAN: And we should note that apparently this deal does not include some of the safeguards or the levels of watchdogs that other deals and other programs have had in the past. But we'll have to wait and see more of the details there.

Kim Dozier, retired Colonel Cedric Leighton, thanks so much.

Sara.

SIDNER: Great conversation. Thank you, John.

New CNN reporting this morning on one of the most watched midterm races in the country, the Senate showdown in Maine. Democrats have rallied behind progressive Troy Jackson as their best hope at beating five term Republican incumbent Susan Collins after the implosion of Graham Platner. But Jackson wasn't always a champion of the left. When he first ran for office in 2000, it was as an anti-abortion Republican.

CNN's Patrick Svitek has that reporting on this and he joins us right now.

Troy Jackson has undergone a dramatic political transformation over the last couple of decades. What can you tell us on this front and whether or not Democrats believe this transformation, because that would be important for him to get the votes needed.

PATRICK SVITEK, CNN REPORTER: Yes, this is not a secret in Maine politics, but we're in this unusual moment where the national political world is learning about Troy Jackson at a very quick pace as he closes in on the crucial Democratic nomination for Senate there at their party's convention this weekend.

As you pointed out, you know, he first ran for office in 2000 as a Republican. Two years later, he ran and won as an independent. And then two years after that, he joined the Democratic Party. But he, even back then, in those early political years, he had a number of socially conservative positions and votes opposing same sex marriage, voting against abortion rights.

You fast forward to today, and in recent years, as the Maine Senate president up through 2024, and he's come around on a lot of these issues as far as the traditional Democratic viewpoint, or the modern Democratic viewpoint is concerned. And he's acknowledged that he was simply wrong back then and that he's changed his thinking.

[08:40:04]

But this is an ideological evolution that has been well known in Maine, but it's one that I think people outside of Maine are now getting more familiar with. And if Democrats in Maine are uneasy with it, at least Democratic activists, they haven't really shown it so far. I mean he built a really impressive lead among delegates who are his supporters going into this convention on Saturday. And as there's been more national scrutiny and attention on his, you know, progressive record in recent days, you know, in my reporting, I haven't sensed any real concern.

And so, you know, this is, of course, part of the vetting that any candidate goes through when they are suddenly vaulted onto the national stage like this. But so far it doesn't seem like Democrats are terribly concerned about this.

SIDNER: Yes, I mean, you're allowed to evolve in politics. It's just the way in which you do it. And whether people believe it is a whole different thing. But it has been a long time. And it will be really interesting to watch this race.

I'm glad you're on it, Patrick Svitek. Really appreciate your reporting this morning.

Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Another of the biggest Senate races of this entire cycle is in Michigan, where voters haven't elected a Republican in more than 30 years. That seat now being seen as one, a fight for the soul of the Democratic Party, and also more. While Andrew Desiderio of "Punchbowl" is reporting this, "the perpetually purple state is now considered by many Republicans to be their top pick up opportunity as the Michigan Democratic primary features a brutal battle between two candidates who represent vastly different wings of the party, Haley Stevens and Abdul El-Sayed."

Joining me right now is the aforementioned Andrew Desiderio, senior congressional reporter for "Punchbowl News."

It's good to see you, Andrew.

ANDREW DESIDERIO, SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, "PUNCHBOWL NEWS": Thank you, Kate.

BOLDUAN: So, you were in Michigan. What direction is this race headed? What does it indicate for, well, Republicans and Democrats here?

DESIDERIO: Well, Republicans have had the benefit of basically sitting back for the last year plus and watching Democrats tear each other to shreds. And Democrats have made this race all about really the future of the Democratic Party. This is a proxy for that essentially. On the issue of Israel, for example, Israel, Gaza is a major, major division right now in the party. Money in politics in general.

For example, you know, there's about $50 million in outside spending, much of it from AIPAC, the pro-Israel outside group, on behalf of Haley Stevens. Abdul al-Sayed is making a huge issue of that. And he had Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez rally for him in Detroit on Saturday. I was there covering it. And I have to say, the lack of focus on Mike Rogers and the extreme focus on sort of these divisions within the Democratic Party were on full display.

And, you know, Bernie Sanders in particular said that this is not an election between Abdul el-Sayed and Haley Stevens, it's a test for progressives of whether they can overcome this type of outside spending and you know, what Bernie Sanders refers to as the billionaire class. So, they're framing it as something more existential for the Democratic Party than simply just a primary, which is a problem for national Democratic leaders.

BOLDUAN: Right, and some of the things that Mike Rogers was saying, or said to you is, "we are defying the national trend for Republicans to be down a little bit. You know, the Democratic candidates are fighting over national socialism and all the other nonsense. We're talking about the things that actually impact our lives here in Michigan."

What do you make of -- I mean, Mike Rogers is a seasoned politician, has been around for a long time. What do you -- what do you make of this? What are you hearing from voters when you're on the ground of his chances? Again, they've not elected a Senate Democrat -- a Senate Republican in 30 plus -- in 30 years.

DESIDERIO: Yes, exactly. That's a very important caveat here. But, you know, what -- what we're going to see, I think, as we transition to the general election and Democrats do actually have a nominee, what's going to be really fascinating to see is whether the traditional Democratic coalition in Michigan could coalesce effectively around whoever wins the Democratic nomination. And then once it turns into a general election fight, we'll see sort of more direct attacks on Mike Rogers and this campaign will feel much different, right?

The question is whether that eventual Democratic nominee will be so damaged, essentially, that they won't have the ability or really the time to sort of recover, because this primary is so late. It's less than two weeks away now, on August 4th.

And I was in Michigan last August covering this race when it was a three person race, including Mallory McMorrow, of course, who has since dropped out. But this primary has always been a proxy over the future of the Democratic Party. That's a fight Democrats want to have in 2028, not in 2026 when they're trying to retake majorities in the House and Senate.

BOLDUAN: Can't pick the timing sometimes because that looks like this is what you're going to get.

DESIDERIO: Yes.

BOLDUAN: Real quick, before I let you go, at the very same time, because they're about to only focus, the entire House of Representatives and all of Congress, on their re-election battles, they've got to -- like no time left, though, before then, this sprint to the August recess.

[08:45:03]

The latest thing I've seen from "Politico" is that there's "a critical mass of House Republicans that are threatening to defy Speaker Johnson and vote against this budget framework of party priorities."

What's -- what is -- what are you hearing about this?

DESIDERIO: Well, there's going to be a vote today on the budget resolution, which is the first step in the party line reconciliation process, right? There's a real gulf between Speaker Mike Johnson and Senate Majority Leader John Thune on this issue. Speaker Johnson wants to press ahead with this package that the administration wants, which includes supplemental defense funding, which, because it's for the Iran War, Democrats are going to oppose it, right? That's why they have to use reconciliation in the first place.

It also has elements of the SAVE America Act, of course, which is a very controversial issue. And Senator Thune does not believe that this is something that is palatable in the Senate. But Speaker Johnson is moving ahead regardless.

Now, what we saw from Thune yesterday was interesting, which is, he's going to hold the CR that the -- that's the government funding bill that passed the House last night in the Senate until they figure out what to do on reconciliation. So, they are really going in different directions here. And I think it can't be emphasized enough.

BOLDUAN: Yes, that there's a -- well, there's a government funding, emergency war funding and an entire shutdown that is now at stake ahead of a midterm election.

It's good to see you, Andrew. Thank you so much.

DESIDERIO: Yes. And FISA's still dark, by the way.

BOLDUAN: Oh, right. And then there is that, of course, what has -- which has been now months, yes.

DESIDERIO: Yes.

BOLDUAN: It's good to see you. John.

DESIDERIO: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, going back home to look for gold. Suni Lee, the two-time Olympian and gold medal winner is back at the childhood gym where she began training at just six years old. Obviously, she could have gone anywhere to train this time, but decided to look to regain her edge in the Minnesota suburbs, where her whole journey began.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUNI LEE, OLYMPIC GOLD-MEDAL WINNING GYMNAST: I couldn't see myself anywhere else. Like, it would never work out. They understand me and how I work as an athlete, but also just as a human. And I think that's another thing that's really important, because it's one thing to be an athlete and to coach an athlete, but to see me as a person outside of that is really cool.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Very cool.

All right, we're standing by this morning for the results of an independent autopsy conducted by the family of an 18 year old whose death on a boat trip with friends has raised so many questions.

And then a new, national ban on social media for teenagers. Kind of a first of its kind.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:51:34]

BOLDUAN: Breaking news overnight, French lawmakers have now voted to ban social media use for children under the age of 15, making it the first country in the E.U. to do so. You may remember, though, Australia made history when it implemented the first social media ban for kids under 16. This happened last year. Speaking this morning about the ban in France, the president there, Emmanuel Macron, said, quote, "the brains of our children and our teenagers are not for sale." Similar social media restrictions for teenagers in the U.K. were announced last month.

A stunt that became one for the record books. A Japanese bike rider is now the first person in the world to ride backwards on one wheel down an Olympic ski jump. Just look at that. That ride earned him not one, but two world records for both steepness and distance, riding the bike over 136 meters, about 446 feet down the slope. He tried to pull it off actually more than 30 times over the course of two years before this successful run. So, not only congratulations just on pulling it off, but on staying at it and continuing to go for it. Can you imagine how relieved? Oh, congrats to you, sir.

J.B. BERMAN: I mean, as they always say, the 31st time is the charm.

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BERMAN: Right?

BOLDUAN: (INAUDIBLE). Yes. When you're going down an Olympic ski run backwards on one wheel, yes.

BERMAN: It may be a sign if you can't ride backwards down a ski jump on one wheel 30 times that it's not meant to happen. But, hey, hey, that's just me.

BOLDUAN: Don't tell that to this man.

BERMAN: Don't tell that to this man. Congratulations to him.

All right, this morning, oh, Canada. So, the administration announced new, big tariffs on a range of Canadian goods. This has Canadian Prime Minister Mark Carney saying he's going to enter into intense negotiations with the United States over this. But you can only imagine what that does to a relationship which is showing some signs of strain.

With us this morning, CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten.

So, how do Canadians feel about the United States, a?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: Oh, Canada. Oh, no. That's what's going on here. You know, it's like a bizarro Harry Houdini. How do you make an alliance disappear? How Canadians view the United States, a threat or cautiously? In 2024, it was just 26 percent. Ally or friend, 73 percent. Now, these numbers, inverse, flip around the rosy. Look at this. OK, now 74 percent, look at that, up nearly 50 points now say, Canadians say that the U.S. should be viewed as a threat or cautiously. The ally or friend, down through the floor, down the Saint Lawrence River, now just 22 percent of Canadians say they should view the United States an ally or a friend. That is down, what is that, 51 points. Canadians not liking the way things are going under the administration of Donald John Trump.

BERMAN: Just 22 percent of Canadians view the United States an ally or a friend.

ENTEN: Just 22 percent.

BERMAN: And they like everybody.

ENTEN: They like everybody.

BERMAN: All right. So, how do they view the president in terms of, you know, compared to other presidents?

ENTEN: Yes, OK. So, Donald John Trump is the driver behind this drop in the ally and friend from 73 percent to 22 percent. An unbelievable drop. You rarely see drops like that over the course of just a few years.

And take a look here. Canadians views on the U.S. president. In 2024, look at this, confident, 52 percent. Now, not confident, as we go from Biden to Trump, 20 percent. And then the not confident number, look at that, up like a rocket, from 46 percent, now to 79 percent.

[08:55:00]

My goodness gracious. Now just 20 percent. Just 20 percent of Canadians have confidence, have confidence in the U.S. president. That is way down from where we were in the Biden administration. Now it is basically, what is that, five to one, four to one, against on the not confident to confident.

BERMAN: So, broadly speaking, are these feelings mutual?

ENTEN: No, that's what's so unbelievable, which is, you know, it used to be Canadians like the U.S. and you -- and Americans like Canadians. But now what do we see? We see, look at this, net favorable view of Americans on Canada, plus 65 points. Look at that. Americans still really love Canadians, but Canadians, on the other hand, look at that, the net favorable rating, minus 33 points. That is a difference of nearly 90 points.

These numbers used to be far closer to sympatico. They are no longer sympatico. Americans really still like Canada. Canadians don't like the Americans. And again, you can see it right here in these numbers. The ally or friend number, 73 percent. I should note, this is 2023. Seventy-three percent and now down to just 22 percent. My goodness gracious, you just never see anything like this. As I said, it's like a bizarro Harry Houdini. You make an alliance, poof, disappear.

BERMAN: All gone. Unrequited love there from the United States to Canada.

ENTEN: Oh, very nice.

BERMAN: Harry Enten, thank you very much.

ENTEN: Not unrequited on this end, though.

BERMAN: No, not at all. Not one bit.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thank you, gentlemen.

A federal judge in Houston has stopped the Trump administration from deporting a witness to the fatal ICE shooting of a Mexican homebuilder in Houston. Jose Pliego was one of three passengers inside a van driven by Lorenzo Salgado two weeks ago when he was shot and killed. Pliego must remain in ICE custody while this case is pending.

Meantime, a federal officer fatally shot a Colombian immigrant last -- less than a week later, and a Mexican man was killed after getting hit by a truck whiling from ICE officers. A recent op-ed in "The New York Times" says Trump's immigration enforcement agenda has put Latinos in America in crisis, but also calls them out for helping put Trump back into the White House.

Andrea Flores joins me now. She is a former White House immigration policy adviser and wrote that op-ed about what Democrats still misunderstand about why Donald Trump did so well with Latino voters.

Andrea, thank you so much for being here this morning.

Let me first ask you, the summation of your opinion piece in "The New York Times," where you title it, "Latino Americans are in Shock. Can Democrats Finally Do Something?"

Can they?

ANDREA FLORES, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE IMMIGRATION POLICY ADVISER: Well, they're doing something right now in the House of Representatives. They're using one of the few tools they have where Representative Sylvia Garcia, who represents a district where Lorenzo Araujo was killed, she is using a discharge petition procedure to at least try and force Speaker Johnson to take a vote on legalization for dreamers and for temporary protected status holders who are about to lose their status. They don't have as many tools as I would like, but if they also -- and this is really the main takeaway from my piece, talk about the importance of legalization, that they're missing something that's very important to protect Latino voters, and something that they've been asking for from both parties for a generation now.

SIDNER: You write about something that has frustrated you, particularly about the way that Democrats see the Latino population. And you write this, this question that comes at you, how could those Latinos support Mr. Trump when he espoused such anti-immigrant views? What's the answer to that? What have you learned?

FLORES: Well, it was really important in this piece to include some history about the Chicano movement, to which I feel that I am part of its own legacy, working politics now. But people need to understand that Latinos have been divided on the issue of immigration for the past century. And there's been a debate about, do we organize with and for immigrants? Do we organize against immigrants? And I wanted people to understand that Latinos swinging to vote for a Republican is not necessarily that new in our history. And I wanted to also note the history that they have been told by Democrats from multiple administrations that I've served in that they would fix the immigration system. And what I wanted people to appreciate is, under President Biden, those priorities became muddled, and they were honestly dropped, and they were policy choices that pitted the long term undocumented against new arrivals coming across the border.

SIDNER: Do you -- did you get the sense, having worked in both the Obama and Biden administrations, do you get the sense that at some point Democrats dropped the ball in that they started just expecting the Latino population, not the entire population, obviously, but the vast majority of them to vote Democrat. And so they kind of let them linger there and not addressing some of the issues that are very important to that group of human beings.

[09:00:07]

FLORES: Absolutely.