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GOP to Refer Dr. Fauci to DOJ for Prosecution; Russian Black Widows Allegedly Marrying Soldiers for Money; Tennessee Voters Getting First Test of State's New Political Maps; Midterm Races Take Shape as El-Sayed Wins in Michigan. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired August 06, 2026 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: We're following unprecedented developments on Capitol Hill as Republicans push to prosecute the face of the government's COVID-19 response. Republican Senator Rand Paul says a referral will be hand-delivered to the Department of Justice recommending that his longtime foe, Dr. Anthony Fauci, be prosecuted for contempt of Congress. Now, Senator Paul says he will deliver it by the end of the day today, bypassing a full Senate vote.

Furious Republicans had floated the unprecedented move after Fauci invoked his Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination more than 100 times during a hearing last week. Fauci suggested during the hearing that his appearance was part of a Republican political effort to trap him into making a statement that could lead to a perjury charge.

I want to talk about all of this with someone who was also on the front lines during the pandemic, Dr. Paul Offit. He's the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. Doctor, I really appreciate you taking the time, because I just want to start with, has the politicization of the COVID-19 response made it harder to get answers and lessons that can actually be implemented in the next public health crisis, in your opinion?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Yes, this was a complete failure by the Senate to do its job. Its job was to look back at this pandemic and see what we got right and what we got wrong, so that the next time a pandemic occurs, and it will occur. We've had three coronavirus pandemics over the last 20 years.

It is not a leap to believe there's going to be another one. So that we could have learned from what happened, so that we could make ourselves better prepared to respond to it. What did we get right? What did we get wrong?

But instead, we got this vilification of Dr. Fauci, which did nothing to advance that knowledge.

JIMENEZ: And, you know, it's beyond Dr. Fauci at this point as well. I mean, you look at, based on just some polling, a minority of the American public, Democrats and Republicans, trust federal health officials in the government, like the CDC and the FDA, to make decisions based on science, rather than the personal views of agency officials.

[15:35:00]

I mean, trust in the CDC to provide reliable information about vaccines as well, COVID-19 vaccines, and coronavirus has plummeted for both Democrats and Republicans since March 2020. So that might not be a surprise to some of the folks who are seeing that. I wonder how you feel about that dynamic, and how can you start to reverse that?

OFFIT: I think we angered people during the early stages of this pandemic. I think, here's a virus that came into the United States in January of 2020, started killing people in February. We didn't have a vaccine until December.

We really didn't have anything, although we had monoclonal antibodies and antivirals at the end of the year. But they really didn't do much, unless you used them early, which generally was not how they were used. So here was a virus that was spread asymptomatically, meaning people who weren't at all symptomatic could spread it, and it was killing hundreds of people a day.

So what did we do? We just tried to limit human-to-human contact. So we shuttered businesses, restricted travel, you know, shuttered schools.

And I think we quarantined and masked and social distanced and tested. And I think people saw that as massive government overreach. I think in 2021, early 2021, when we had a vaccine, you really couldn't go anywhere without your vaccination card.

You couldn't go to your favorite bars or restaurants or sporting events. You may be fired from your job. And that really upset people.

And I think that the fact that we were learning as we went, I think that also upset people. One of the things we learned is that this vaccine would protect you against severe disease for a fairly long time, but against mild to moderate disease for a fairly short period of time, maybe four to six months. So here were people getting mandated to get a vaccine, and then they would get moderate illness, which means they may be home for a couple days with fever and cough.

And I think people looked at it and said, you know, they lied to me. They said this vaccine was going to work, and it doesn't work. And that was just one of the few mistakes that we made, I think, early on.

You learn as you go, and I think many people are intolerant of that.

JIMENEZ: And, you know, to your point, it seems like people are latching on to various aspects of COVID, whether it was the vaccine mandates or decisions to keep kids home, relying on knowledge that many in your community have now that they did not have at the time as well. And, you know, when you sort of look at how to move forward here, the Senate voted to confirm Dr. Erica Schwartz as the new director of the CDC. And I wonder, just in your opinion, do you think she will be a strong leader on vaccines and vaccine safety and help instill some of the confidence that has been decaying in government health institutions?

OFFIT: She certainly has the skills to do it. I think what worries me is during her confirmation hearing, she was asked the question, if Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. asks you to do something that you think is against the science, will you stand up to him?

And she said, well, he would never do that. But he has done that. And with Susan Monarez, when she was fired as director of the CDC, the reason she was fired was, and this is what Dr. Monarez said, he wanted me to sign off, he, RFK, Jr., wanted me to sign off on everything he did. And I said I couldn't do that. I was going to be true to the science, but not necessarily true to him. And he couldn't handle that.

So he fired me. So I just hope she stands up for the science consistently and doesn't let it get politicized.

JIMENEZ: Well, Dr. Offit, I really appreciate you taking the time. Thank you for being here today.

OFFIT: Thank you.

JIMENEZ: Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: In Russia, controversy is growing around so- called black widow scams. Women allegedly entering sham marriages with soldiers to claim death benefits if they're killed. Matthew Chance has the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A mass wedding of Russian soldiers before they're packed off to the front lines.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I want to shake your hand and thank you for not running away, for not being scared.

CHANCE (voice-over): But not all marriages offer love. Russian military wives get thousands of dollars compensation if their husbands are killed in action. And officials say ruthless scammers dubbed Black Widows now tricking vulnerable recruits into wedlock.

The father of Maria from St. Petersburg died after being shot in Ukraine last year. She told me she only found out her dad had joined the army after he was killed, and only then did he had a new wife.

CHANCE: How did you feel when you found out that your dad had got married just days before he went off to war?

MARIA, DAUGHTER OF RUSSIAN SOLDIER (through translator): It felt unreal. When I was being issued the death certificate, they asked if he was married. I said no, but they told me he was. I never even managed to contact the woman. I simply didn't know what to say to her because I suspected it was a scam. [15:40:00]

CHANCE (voice-over): It's just one suspected case in a growing number scandalizing Russia.

CHANCE: With the war in Ukraine now in its fifth year, and casualty rates at catastrophic highs, it's hard to imagine there are people out there marrying vulnerable men and encouraging them to join the military just so they might financially benefit if they're killed on the front lines. No wonder there's outrage across Russia at the spread of these Black Widow scams.

CHANCE (voice-over): There are numerous allegations of recruits honey trapped before dying on the front lines, even marrying on their deathbeds in hospital. This woman who married a soldier 10 days after meeting him, then posted images of herself with other men, was branded a Black Widow in the Russian media and denied compensation when her husband was killed before their divorce went through.

She denied any wrongdoing, saying the allegations had blackened her name.

But there's growing public anger at how cynical some Russians have become about the war, the Kremlin calls its special military operation. "If I want an apartment, where am I supposed to get the money?" The host of this podcast asks. "It's simple." The guest who's a real estate agent, responds, "Find a man serving in the special military operation. And when he's killed, you get eight million rubles," she laughs.

The podcasters were prosecuted and forced to apologize, a rare intervention by the Russian courts.

Back in St. Petersburg, Maria takes us to the block where her dad's old apartment has now been sold off, convinced he was also scammed out of his home.

CHANCE: Do you know who the new owner is? How long, how many years did your dad live here?

MARIA: Five Years.

CHANCE: Five years. This is it. It's open.

CHANCE (voice-over): Behind the broken door. The new occupants insist it was a legitimate sale and that they never even met the seller. It means the money and the widow, just like Maria's dad, are now long gone.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KEILAR: Thanks to Matthew Chance for that.

Ahead, primary elections are underway in Tennessee. It's the first test for the state's new congressional map. We'll take a look next.

[15:45:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: Today voters in Tennessee are heading to the polls to cast ballots in the state's primary elections, which include races for governor and all U.S. House seats. This marks the first big test for Tennessee's new political map that was enacted just after the Supreme Court weakened key protections in the Voting Rights Act. Now the state's majority Black ninth district in Memphis, which is the only one currently represented by a Democrat, is expected to favor Republicans in the midterms.

We're joined now by Chuck Todd, host of the Chuck Toddcast. All right, Chuck, so as you're watching this race, I mean, what are you looking out for here?

CHUCK TODD, HOST, THE CHUCK TODDCAST: Well, look, I just, you know, the map itself really is kind of says what it is. I mean, it is the Republican primary. This was designed to get rid of any competitive districts at all, let alone a majority African-American district in Memphis.

And, you know, Tennessee is one of the more egregious gerrymanders because it's not just Memphis that got, you know, when you -- Republican states, when they want to create as few competitive seats as possible, do what's called cracking and packing, right? So you crack the urban centers, right? And then you have you have them spread out into the state to bring in some of the more rural parts of Tennessee.

And that's what they've done to Nashville, which, of course, is in the center of the state. And that's what they've now done to Memphis. Now, look, Democrats do something similar. Virginia was trying to do a similar deal with taking northern Virginia and essentially feeding northern Virginia Democrats into just about every congressional seat in the state.

What Tennessee did was basically the reverse, right? And so, you know, tonight's primaries, the one that actually is the most interesting and could have November impact, is the one that features Andy Ogles, who's got his own -- he's the incumbent congressman. He's got a real primary challenge.

And Democrats, if Ogles wins the primary, that's somebody they think they can beat, even in a district that's pretty heavily Republican.

KEILAR: Yes, it'll be really interesting to watch. Let's talk about Michigan, because you have liberals and middle of the road Democrats who are really considering what that meant for the Democratic Party, that Abdul El-Sayed beat establishment pick Haley Stevens there, on top of the other DSA-aligned Democratic wins in recent elections. How are you seeing the chances for these more liberal Democratic candidates in the general election?

And do you think they can sustain the success that they're seeing? TODD: Well, look, it all depends on how they -- I do think the national environment is a benefit, for instance, to Abdul El-Sayed. I think without the national environment that leans to the Democrats, anywhere from about four to seven points, depending on what polls you want to believe.

But essentially, this is a tilted playing field towards the Democrats right now. The president's unpopular. This economy's unpopular.

And by the way, in Michigan specifically, the president's feuds with Canada have actually, you know, it's been bad for the local economy in Michigan.

[15:50:00]

So everything atmospherically favors the Democrats here, generically. So I do think even, you know, while maybe in a neutral environment, he'd have a really hard time. It's still not going to be an easy race for him.

But a lot of it will depend on how he positions himself a little bit, how does he try to reach out. I will tell you my read on these. You know, I don't think suddenly nearly 50 percent of Democrats in Michigan want to embrace socialism.

That is not what powered Abdul El-Sayed. What powered Abdul El-Sayed, what has powered Francesca Hong in Wisconsin, what even powered a Graham Platner early on against a, quote, establishment governor in Janet Mills, is there is this group of Democrats that are just rip, you know what, mad at the Democratic Party.

And it's, you know, some of it is about how did you let Trump come back. And they don't blame Trump for this. They blame the leadership of the Democratic Party.

And, you know, I think that's the mistake that I think both the left should be careful. You know, they're succeeding because they're the one set of candidates that are saying what Democratic rank-and-file voters believe, which is, hey, the leadership of this party stinks. It's their fault that the Democratic Party is in this position.

The establishment wing, right, that is not what Haley Stephens said in her primary. You're not hearing that. And I think that is why you have these voters who I don't think are socialists, right?

I don't think there's suddenly this huge group of socialists in Grand Rapids, Michigan, Brianna. But what you have is a bunch of frustrated residents of Grand Rapids. Like, you know, at least, I may not like every policy he has, but at least he agrees with the diagnosis that this leadership stinks and we need new blood, and I think that's what's powering this.

KEILAR: Yes, they're not feeling that their leaders are channeling at all what they're feeling, their frustrations, their day-to-day experiences. They're not feeling that. I do wonder what you think of this Rand Paul-Anthony Fauci thing that we're seeing going on, because you see Rand Paul, who really led the charge here to hold Anthony Fauci in contempt of Congress this morning. A lot of people, of course, very skeptical of public health officials after the COVID pandemic. Anthony Fauci was really the face of that federally.

And yet Paul is taking this unprecedented step of sending this referral for prosecution directly to DOJ. He's basically leapfrogging the full Senate, where he'd have a tough time getting the votes to send this to DOJ. How are you seeing that?

TODD: Well, look, he's channeling a sort of faction inside the conservative movement that has been frustrated by this, and he's sort of, in some ways, right, Anthony Fauci is that red meat. Now, if you're trying to be logical about this, if Rand Paul is really upset about how the COVID pandemic was managed, you know, Anthony Fauci had no power. Anthony Fauci simply made recommendations.

The person who executed things that maybe Rand Paul and some of his supporters don't like is the president of the United States, Donald John Trump, right? But they're not holding Trump accountable for this, right? Anthony Fauci had no actual power here whatsoever.

And so, you know, this, you know, this a little bit, this is why I think people realize it's theater, it's not real, but I'll be honest with you. I thought Anthony Fauci made a huge mistake in pleading the fifth. I think you hand a talking point.

I think the average person hears that and thinks, oh, maybe he does have something to hide. Maybe he is fearful of something. And, you know, knowing how the current world of Washington works, I understand why a lawyer gave Tony Fauci the advice to say take the fifth.

Gigantic mistake. And it's a terrible end to his legacy. And I'm sorry it happened.

I get it. I understand the risk averseness that lawyers can do sometimes. But I think it was a PR mistake, and I really think it harmed the perception of public health, Brianna.

I really do.

KEILAR: Yes. It's been a really interesting and important thing to watch this, I want to call it a debate, because it's become more than that between Anthony Fauci and Rand Paul.

TODD: It's not a debate. I wish it were.

KEILAR: I know, right?

TODD: That would be -- if it were an actual debate with substance and they spoke to each other instead of talking past each other, maybe we would get somewhere.

KEILAR: There's a lot to learn here. Chuck Todd, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

And ahead, the new Air Force One gifted by Qatar might not end up in the Trump Presidential Library after all.

[15:55:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: President Trump's son Eric tells NBC News that the controversial Qatari-donated jet will not be the aircraft displayed at his father's future presidential library.

JIMENEZ: CNN's Tom Foreman joins us now. All right, so what's happening?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is on a new flight path. Yes, if you look at the video of the proposed library, they have a big display there showing that an Air Force One is going to be in the presidential library for Donald Trump, just like there's one for the library for Ronald Reagan. Big airplane down in the bottom there. Now, here's the big change, though.

They have said it was going to be this Qatari-donated plane. And now, suddenly, Eric Trump told NBC News that's not the plan at the moment. Now, if you doubt at all that this was the plan, listen to Donald Trump just a little less than a year and a half ago.

This is what he said when asked if he was going to use it for his private use.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you plan to use the plane after you leave office?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: No, I don't. No. It would go directly to the library after I leave office. I wouldn't be using it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN: So now it's not going to the library, but we have not been told where it is going to go. What's going to happen to this plane? And it's important to remember this plane, if you're watching this at home, it belongs to you. It was given to the United States government, not to Donald Trump or his family.

And of course, critics right now are looking and saying, is this some kind of end run where they're going to try to give this plane to the Trump family or something to deaccession it by the government because the Pentagon controls it before Donald Trump leaves office and suddenly, he walks away with a $400 million plane? We don't know, but the problem is we don't know much of anything except the plan has suddenly changed.

KEILAR: The plan has changed. All right, well, we know you'll be asking more questions. Tom Foreman, thank you so much.

"THE ARENA" with Kasie Hunt starts right now.

END