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New Marist Texas Senate Poll Shows Talarico 47 Percent, Paxton 45 Percent; Vatican: Pope Leo XIV Found To Have Lung Cancer During Surgery; "The Whole Story: MAGA Ever After?" Airs Saturday At 8:00 p.m. ET/President Trump. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired October 14, 2026 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:32:40]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Tonight on CNN a special town hall with Texas Democratic Senate candidate James Talarico. We've got brand new polls from Texas that show this race very, very close. You can see from Marist here no clear leader, just two points separating the two candidates well within the margin of error.

With us now, Jim Messina, former Obama campaign advisor, and Republican strategist Neil Chatterjee.

Jim, I just want to start with you here. This race very, very close. Talarico's been up a point or two in almost all the polls we've seen.

JIM MESSINA, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN ADVISER, CEO, FORTIUS GLOBAL: Yeah.

BERMAN: What does he need to do, in your mind, tonight at this town hall?

MESSINA: The closing argument for him is really important. Keep it to the economy. Make it about Paxton and not his record. This is a state where Democrats haven't won a statewide race in almost 30 years. And the fact that in the last 12 polls, Talarico's ahead, but to your point, not yet at 50, he's got to make the closing sale.

BERMAN: To whom?

MESSINA: To these swing voters who are -- who have traditionally walked away from the Democratic Party at the very end, especially women in the suburbs of the big cities in Texas.

BERMAN: All right, Neil, Ken Paxton decided not to do this town hall. We invited him. He apparently didn't even respond. He has not agreed to any debates with James Talarico.

And there is this story in The Wall Street Journal overnight that he's seen in pictures partying in Dubai with a woman who's not his wife and two fugitives from justice.

Why do you think that Paxton won't debate Talarico, and what does he need to do in these last few weeks?

NEIL CHATTERJEE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST, FORMER CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL ENERGY REGULATORY COMMISSION: Look, I think what Ken Paxton is relying upon is the fact that there are just more Republicans than there are Democrats in Texas. If the incumbent Sen. John Cornyn were on the ballot, we wouldn't even be talking about Texas right now. Ken Paxton is an admittedly flawed candidate, but he's a flawed candidate with structural advantages and a mountain of cash.

I think for Democrats to prevail here, you're going to need some disenchanted Cornyn voters, not just to stay home. That might not be enough. You're going to need those disenchanted Cornyn voters to pull the lever for Talarico, and I'm just skeptical that that's going to happen.

BERMAN: John Cornyn, of course, the incumbent Republican senator who lost in the primary to Ken Paxton.

[07:35:00]

And while I have you on this, Neil, last night I was on TV with S.E. Cupp and she asked the question -- this is after the reports from The Wall Street Journal about Ken Paxton being in these pictures in Dubai, partying with two fugitives from justice. Her question was, you know, is it worth it for you as a Republican? Is Ken Paxton worth it?

CHATTERJEE: So, look. There's a lot of folks right now skeptical about Ken Paxton. The Republican Party is definitely fragmented. The base is split right now.

Here's why it's worth it and this is an important point, maybe not an October surprise, but it's a wild card to keep an eye on. In 2016, my former boss, Mitch McConnell, kept open a U.S. Supreme Court seat, and that, combined with Trump issuing a list of justices he would appoint, I think was crucial to turning out skeptical conservatives who weren't totally sold on Donald Trump.

In 2018, a midterm election that saw Democrats sweep to a majority in the House, Republicans held on to the Senate in the aftermath of the Kavanaugh confirmation fight. Supreme Court politics matter to the conservative base. That's why I took note a couple of weeks ago of the chatter that started around Justice Alito potentially retiring after the next term. That is precisely the kind of thing that will get Republicans to hold their nose and vote for a Ken Paxton -- Supreme Court politics over some of these other admittedly damaging facts.

BERMAN: Interesting that Neil cites those types of issues, Supreme Court social issues and whatnot, because the economy is seen as the issue that's hanging over this entire race.

And Gallup's got some new numbers out overnight. The way they ask this is a little bit unique. Which party would do a better job of keeping the country prosperous? Right now it's the Democratic Party by, you know, 14 points. That's a big lead.

What's interesting, Jim, as you look over time -- the red line is Republicans, the blue line is Democrats -- you can see Republicans generally hold a lead here, and they held a big lead until it just started plummeting when Donald Trump took office for the second time.

So how big of a headwind is this regardless of the Supreme Court, regardless of any hot button social issues?

MESSINA: This is the problem for the Republican Party, and this is the advantage that Democrats have in this election.

When I ran Obama's campaign, Bill Clinton would call me up in the middle of the night once a month and say all elections are always economic referendum. And this has always been true.

Donald Trump won two elections because he was viewed as better on the economy. Now his party is 14 points behind on the economy. This is what the voters are talking about over and over again. These are bread and butter issues, and it's why they're going to lose the House. And to Neil's earlier point, it's why they're having to defend Senate seats that they haven't lost in generations -- like Kansas, like Texas -- because their economic numbers have just plummeted because of Donald Trump.

BERMAN: You know, Neil, it's interesting because Jim here is saying bread and butter issues are going to be most important here.

Gallup also asked which party is seen as more extreme, right, right now, and according to Gallup, the Republican Party is seen as more extreme. The Democratic Party less so. And when you look at that over time again, this gap is growing wider than it's been.

So you're suggesting Supreme Court may be for Republicans to lean into social issues here. But when you see numbers like this, how certain are you that it will work?

CHATTERJEE: I think. Republicans, we need to run the Jim Messina playbook.

Look, back in 2012, I was on the Romney pre-transition team. We were feeling pretty good heading into Election Day. We thought that voters were concerned about the economy. There was energy. Republicans were energized. There was a perceived enthusiasm gap, at least compared to 2008 for the Obama campaign. Yet what Jim and his team did is they focused on data and analytics, and they turned out their coalition, and they overcame it and they thumped us by five million votes.

I think this is obviously a midterm election, not a presidential election, but it's a midterm election that runs through red states in the Senate and a redistricted House. So if Republicans can just turn out their voters, if they can focus on analytics the way that Jim Messina did in 2012, we've at least got a fighting chance.

BERMAN: I don't even think he's damning you with faint praise. I think he's damning you with high praise there. And all those Romney pre- transition notes right now, you can give them to a museum one day.

Neil Chatterjee, thank you very much. Jim Messina, great to see you. Appreciate it -- Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: So it was a big night of debates as control of Congress hangs in the balance and the candidates know that every day at this point is the day to make the closing argument to voters.

And it -- one of the most closely watched races in the country is in Maine. Republican Sen. Susan Collins trying to defend her seat and fend off a challenge from Democrat Troy Jackson. Jackson trying last night to tie Susan Collins to President Trump and Susan Collins trying her best to put more distance between her and the president.

[07:40:00]

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TROY JACKSON, (D) MAINE SENATE CANDIDATE: Donald Trump wanted to play war games, and when Susan Collins had the chance to stop him because she's chair of appropriations, she would not do that.

SEN. SUSAN COLLINS, (R) MAINE SENATE CANDIDATE: I agree that the president did not have a good plan. He should have anticipated the closure of the Strait of Hormuz.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Joining me right now, Democratic congresswoman from Michigan, Debbie Dingell, for much more on this. It's great to see your congresswoman.

What do you think of Susan Collins' efforts and the efforts of other Republicans, which this kind of embodies, to try and distance themselves from President Trump, especially when it comes to the Iran war and the effects of it just as he is telling every crowd he stands before that they should vote like he is on the ballot?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL, (D-MI) (via Webex by Cisco): I think that this is a real problem for the Republican candidates that are on the ballot because I think that's how many people are voting -- like he is on the ballot.

Look, Susan Collins is someone I respect, we're friends, but she too often has been a rubber stamp for Donald Trump. And that's a problem for many of the Republican senators and many of the Republican House members who have not stood up to bad votes that are making life worse for people in this country, from healthcare to grocery costs to the cost of gasoline. And this war in Iran has everybody very worried.

And we have had multiple votes. I think it's six votes in the House and multiple votes in the Senate. And Republicans have supported the president, and now they're being held accountable.

BOLDUAN: The president offered -- has offered throughout this campaign to pay people for -- to vote for Republicans. You know, every American is going to get $5,000 if Republicans win the House and Senate.

He tried a different tactic last night when he was in Alaska. He signed pardons on stage for two diesel mechanics who had previously been charged and pleaded guilty to violating the Clean Air Act.

Just in general, what do you think of an approach like this? I mean, it seems pretty -- you know, there's no nuance in it anymore.

DINGELL: There isn't any nuance, and if you want to go to the $5,000 checks, I think many of us wonder if that's not straight out bribery. But then how many other promises has he made in these last two years where people have not seen anything delivered on? And I kind of liken it to Lucy with the football in Peanuts -- promises not met. But he's not even authorized to make those $5,000 payments. I don't think people will see them.

And as you're talking about these two pardons, I mean the clean air bill was passed for good reason. It's to try to help people live with cleaner air and cleaner environment. And what we really need to be doing is lowering the cost of diesel gas, which is, you know, is over $7.00 a gallon. I think, again, that just strikes people as a blatant trying to bribe people, and that's two people on top of it. Two people out of millions of Americans in this country that are hurting every day.

BOLDUAN: One of the themes that the president has hit on over and over again, no matter where he is campaigning, is bringing it back to the Senate race in Michigan and focusing and attacking the Democratic candidate in the race, Abdul El-Sayed.

Let me play what he did when he was in Ohio.

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DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These people are crazy -- what they want to do to our country. You look at the guy running in Michigan. He's a jihadist. He's a jihadist. And you know what bothers me? The -- even the mainstream, but the media gives him so much publicity. They give him so much publicity. That's, you know, really terrible. Running against a very good candidate -- a very, very strong, very good Mike Rogers, a very good candidate. But this guy is a jihadist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: That was in Ohio.

And the president posted again last night just about El-Sayed, writing, "Why would Black people vote for..." -- he called him Mohammad El-Sayed -- "...when he openly scorns them, mocks them, and disrespects them? They won't."

What is your reaction to this?

DINGELL: You know, this campaign cannot be over soon enough for me. Twenty days, but who's counting? I'm sick of the division and the hatred.

I think that what the president is doing there is putting kerosene on a fire, going after people of different faiths and different colors. And our responsibility -- the responsibility of the chief executive officer of this country is to try to pull people together, not to scare people. Not to cause more hate and division and actually put targets on people's backs.

[07:45:00]

This country was founded where all faiths are respected, and our differences are what unite us. So I know what he's trying to do. He's trying to scare people. He's trying to put a target on their back.

And I'm going to come back at him and say this election is about healthcare. It's about all the people who you ripped healthcare away from. This election is about the hungry children and the hungry seniors we have in the country because you gave tax breaks to the billionaires. He is trying to deflect what the issues are, and we need to be taking care of people who are hurting more than they have ever hurt in the last two years.

BOLDUAN: Twenty days.

Congresswoman, thanks for coming in. Sara.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: All right.

We have an update on Pope Leo's health ahead this morning after the Vatican announced that the pontiff has lung cancer.

And fishing trip gone wild. A whale crashing the party. We'll explain.

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[07:50:07]

SIDNER: This morning, Pope Leo is recovering at a hospital in Rome after he underwent surgery that confirmed he has lung cancer. The Vatican says surgeons removed the cancerous growth along with the lower lobe of his right lung. The Vatican says it was a successful surgery. The pontiff surgery sparked an outpouring of support from around the world.

CNN's Stefano Pozzebon joins us now from Rome this morning. What are you hearing this morning about the pope's condition?

STEFANO POZZEBON, CNN ROME CORRESPONDENT: Well, Sara, it's mixed news this morning because, on one hand, we learned from the Holy See that the pontiff has had a peaceful night. He is awake and engaged. For example, it was interesting to hear of last night that the Pope asked to be fed -- asked to receive dinner as soon as soon as he woke up from the anesthesia. And he's currently resting on the 10th floor of the big hospital, the Gemelli Hospital, here just behind my back.

At the same time, clearly there is preoccupation. There is anxiety over the fact that there is now a lung cancer diagnosis. It's still under control, of course. The Vatican has said that the operation to remove a lobe was successful and that because of that, the survival chances, of course, are very high, especially for a pope who is relatively young, at just 71. But, of course, you know, we're still talking about a bolt on the blue sky, as the Vatican Secretary of State, Pietro Parolin, told us last night.

In the meantime, Sara, the Vatican and the Catholic Church are getting used to the idea of not seeing the pontiff for at least a week still. For example, today at St. Peter's Basilica was the first time -- was the first engagement that Pope Leo was meant to attend to. It was a mass with cardinals from all over the world, some of them traveling from the United States as well, that he was meant to celebrate himself. And instead, Cardinal Tagle took over from him because, of course, he's resting here.

So I would say mixed news, of course. On one hand, the positivity about the fact that the operation was successful, but at the same time looking at the future and perhaps the engagement that are looming for the pontiff on the tail end of this year, including, of course, the travel overseas to Uruguay, Argentina, and then to Peru. Of course, that is a cloud on the horizon, Sara.

SIDNER: Yeah. A lot of prayers for him this morning, also from us.

Stefano Pozzebon, thank you so much for that update. We appreciate it -- Kate.

BOLDUAN: All right. There is some body camera video you want to see out of Oklahoma showing a suspected burglar making a break for it, quite literally, as you see right there, straight through a glass window. Deputies were responding to a call about a robbery when they found him inside an empty home, and then watch what happens when they confronted him.

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POLICE OFFICER: Get on your knees! Get on your knees.

SUSPECT: Jumps through glass window.

POLICE OFFICER: Oh, (bleep). 231 County, he just bailed out the window. He's on foot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: Bailed out the window. He's still at large. Investigators say he left his backpack and driver's license behind, so now they believe they have been able to identify him. Let's see.

Incredible video also coming off the coast of Long Island, showing the moment a whale slams into a fishing boat. It kind of rips open a door and sends water in and fish flying.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, (bleep)! Oh, (bleep)! Did you get that?

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BOLDUAN: It's like DoorDash delivery.

The fishermen, a man and his uncle, said that they saw -- they saw the huge whale in the distance, grabbed their phones to begin recording. And they say they'd seen plenty of sharks over the years, but never anything like this. That is awesome and unbelievable.

So talk about going the extra mile. NASA's Perseverance Rover just drove into the record books, traveling 28.1 miles across Mars. That is the furthest any vehicle from Earth -- the furthest vehicle -- sorry, the furthest any vehicle has ever driven on another planet. Yes, from Earth as well because obviously that is where Perseverance was created. I know it doesn't sound like a lot guys, but it is. John Berman cares deeply about this.

It also set a milestone in just 5 1/2 years, beating the mark set by its predecessor Opportunity, which explored Mars for nearly 15. It wasn't just a joy ride though guys, it's on a mission to search for clues of Mars' ancient past and possibly signs of life. NASA has extended this mission through 2028, which means, John Berman, so many more records to be broken.

BERMAN: Those of us on Earth thank you and the rover for its service.

[07:55:00]

BOLDUAN: Yes.

BERMAN: This morning, cracks within the president's MAGA movement. Some of the president's most loyal supporters have begun to question their allegiance from the Iran war to data centers to the Epstein files.

Senior correspondent Donie O'Sullivan traveled the country to hear their stories. It's for a new "WHOLE STORY" this weekend, and here's a preview.

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DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): On a Saturday afternoon here in Maysville, Kentucky, a traveling anti-AI data center group made-up of Tea Party activists pulled into town.

BROOKE MCGOWAN, HUMANS FIRST ACTIVIST: We are responding to this huge data center overreach, what looks like an invasion across our country -- this explosion.

O'SULLIVAN (voiceover): They're here because an AI company believed to be Meta is hoping to build a massive data center. Meta has not confirmed this.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not all progress is good, all right?

O'SULLIVAN: President Trump recently -- I think he said, you know, communities that don't want AI centers want to stay backward or something like that.

MCGOWAN: I did. I did hear that.

O'SULLIVAN: When you hear that, how did you feel?

MCGOWAN: I said, well, I guess I'm going to be backwards and poor. But I also want to reiterate that not everything the president does do I agree with, but not everything my husband does do I agree with.

MAX MORAN, MASON COUNTY RESIDENT: I'm Republican, but due to his stance, I feel he's going to cost the Republicans the House and the Senate. Maybe not by big margins. It might be very slim margins, but he needs to reverse his stance.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: And Donie O'Sullivan joins us.

So interesting. I was at Farm Aid a couple weeks ago and the sign that I saw most up in Farm Aid -- these are agricultural people, farmers -- was anti-data center signs there. You really see this permeating the discussion throughout the country.

What's the disconnect here between the MAGA base and the president?

O'SULLIVAN: Yeah, all across the country. And I think part of it is where we were there in Northern Kentucky, this site that they're to build, it's something like four miles wide by three miles long. These are huge. I mean, never -- it's hard to comprehend how big they want to build these AI data centers.

And look, I think this is -- this is the conversation we're having with a lot of Trump supporters, which is Trump got elected twice by being in touch. By being able to sort of get to many of the issues that regular people care about. This certainly is one. It's one where he seems very disconnected on. You know, it might have something to do with the fact that he's constantly having some of these tech billionaires into the Oval Office and they're sitting behind him at the -- at the inauguration.

But this is something we've seen that Trump supporters are extremely vocal about, and particularly because it is happening, right? They want to build in rural parts of America, which often are red parts of America.

BERMAN: Yeah, a lot of these voters have seen Trump as someone who sticks up for them, but not on this issue.

O'SULLIVAN: Yeah.

BERMAN: What else are you learning, or what else did you learn as you travel around the country?

O'SULLIVAN: Yeah. Look, I mean, I think it's important to point out that there is still a very strong MAGA base. You know, we went back to visit a couple of people who I've been speaking with over the years -- Trump supporters -- some of whom ahead of the '24 election wanted him in to bring down gas prices, to end the wars in Gaza and Ukraine. Obviously, he started the war in Iran and gas prices are high. They are still with the president and then are able to rationalize it in ways to say, well, it's still better than having a Democrat in there.

And also, we're seeing a lot of folks break with him on Epstein. They believe that there's still some sort of cover-up going on there.

And I will say, when it comes to young men, particularly, you know, we remember after Charlie Kirk and everything else in '24, that young male vote was so important to getting Trump elected. They have really, really broken with Trump when it comes to Iran. And I think you sort of see that in the podcast sphere where so many of these guys live as well, whether it's Tucker Carlson or Joe Rogan. They feel really, really betrayed by the president on Iran.

BERMAN: Donie O'Sullivan, it's always great to have you here.

O'SULLIVAN: Yeah.

BERMAN: We look forward to seeing the full episode of "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER." It airs Saturday at 8 p.m. on CNN and the next day on the CNN app.

A brand new hour of CNN New Central starts right now.

BOLDUAN: Twenty days to Election Day. New numbers out now on the state of the race in one of the most closely watched contests in the country, the Texas Senate race between James Talerico and Ken Paxton. We'll bring those to you.

In this hour, a new read on inflation is coming in showing the impact the Iran war is having on prices. We're about to get some answers on that.

And there's also new video showing the moment a cruise passenger was rescued off of Greece after being at sea for 20 hours. How she's doing now and how she went overboard in the first place.

I'm Kate Bolduan with John Berman and Sara Sidner. This is the CNN NEWS CENTRAL.