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New Polls on Independent Voters; Rep. Madeleine Dean (D-PA) is Interviewed about Starshield in Ukraine; Former HHS Chief of Staff Miles Taylor is Interviewed about the Lewandowski Investigation; Effects of Redistricting Wars on Midterms. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired October 23, 2026 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

MADISON MILLS, SENIOR A.I. REPORTER, "AXIOS": Sara, a separate story that I covered today is banks preparing for the exact scenario that you mentioned, this sort of day after scenario, making sure that they are prepared to restore customer accounts, restore customer access to their accounts very quickly if there was an A.I. frontier system hack of banking systems, which is par for the course for critical infrastructure to really prepare for the worst case scenario. But what I've heard from the banks is that they are very concerned and, in some cases, you know, have grave concerns about the proliferation of A.I. agents on one hand and the intelligence of these frontier systems and their capabilities on the other hand. So, it is a concern.

SARA SIDNER, CNN ANCHOR: What have you learned about who might be responsible for any unauthorized transactions if you are using an A.I. agent when you're -- the banks are saying, look, don't give your information to an agent or anyone else for that matter?

MILLS: Sara, it's the best question, and it's one that, unfortunately, I wasn't able to find people who have an answer to. The question of who is liable if an agent that you've given access to in your account makes a purchase that you didn't want them to, whose fault is it? Is it you, the agent, the bank? Who owes you your money back? Nobody knows the answer to that right now. And, in fact, I had sources as I was reporting this asking me who I thought was liable. And the whole point is that the experts are supposed to tell me the answer as a reporter. So, it's very much in flux right now and one example of how fast the technology is moving and how regulation is on the back foot just because of the nature of how fast these technological advances are happening.

SIDNER: Yes, this one has a lot of our attention because, you know, messing with someone's money is a really, really bad thing to do. As we go forward, we will be watching this, of course, and I know you will be all over this to see how the response is and if there is more sort of action by A.I., not on the part of the user. It is a really kind of unfortunate scenario that you are painting for us this morning.

Madison Mills, thank you so much. Great reporting from you. Do appreciate it. Kate.

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Russia unleashing new drone attacks overnight targeting Ukraine's energy infrastructure once again. And fighting back made harder now with the lingering Starlink restrictions and the confusion around it. The White House says Elon Musk has lifted all the restrictions. Sources say that's not the case. So, what actually is going on?

And talk about a twist. History made on an iceberg. The first woman to ever dive off of one. Why she did it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:36:48]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: As the immortal Bill Pullman once said, "today we celebrate Independence Day." Although he was talking about it with a "c." I'm talking about it with a "t." Independents may be decisive in this election. And we've got some pretty stunning new numbers showing exactly where they stand with, what, 11 days before the elections?

With us now, CNN chief data analyst Harry Enten.

You can play the president in the independents day with a "t" movie here. How are independents feeling right now?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN CHIEF DATA ANALYST: You know, Bill Pullman, one of the greatest fictional presidents of all time. And I only found out it was fictional just a few days ago. Someone broke the news to me.

Look at this. OK. Net approval rating pre-midterm among independents. Well, according to my calculations, the worst ever heading into a midterm election is this gentleman on the right side of your screen, Donald John Trump, 50 points underwater. That is way worse than George W. Bush was going into the '06 midterm elections at 31 points underwater. That's actually even worse than Richard Nixon was before he was forced to resign back in 1974. He was 47 points underwater. And then, of course, Truman, who we keep bringing up because that was a terrible midterm for Democrats, he was 27 points underwater.

But Donald Trump, congratulations. Yet another record broken. We're talking about the worst ever net approval for a president heading into a midterm election.

BERMAN: These three elections were terrible.

ENTEN: Terrible. Awful. Awful.

BERMAN: Historically awful for the incumbent party.

ENTEN: Historically. Exactly. Flip of the House and the Senate. Democrats won the House and the Senate in a flip of the House and the Senate.

BERMAN: I mean historic shifts for the Democrat that year.

ENTEN: Yes. Yes. Yes.

BERMAN: So, you're seeing sort of numbers there I don't think anyone expects like that this year, but we'll have to wait and see. More history. Put this in more historical (INAUDIBLE).

ENTEN: OK. So, you know, it's one thing to be talking about the president, right? It's another thing to wondering how this will impact the race for Congress. And, you know, these are not good historical analogs if you're a Republican or you want Republicans to win in the midterm elections.

But here's another one for you. OK, The 2026 national congressional ballot among independents. Democrats are up right now by 21 points, 21 points. If that holds, and we see it in the exit poll, from all the research that I have done, that would be the best margin that Democrats have ever had in a midterm election among independents in the exit poll era. So, it is one thing with Trump, that's historic. But we are seeing that historicness (ph) funnel its way down in the race for Congress. Democrats with an historic lead right now in the national congressional polls.

BERMAN: And that would include even big wave elections that we've seen before?

ENTEN: That would include --

BERMAN: In 2006 and '18.

ENTEN: Exactly. That would include 2006. That would include 2018. That would include any of the elections that we're looking at. 2008 as well.

BERMAN: OK. Now overlay this on one of the races we're watching most closely in Texas.

ENTEN: Yes. OK. So, what could this possibly mean? You know we're talking about the fact that James Talarico may, in fact, become the first Democrat to win a Texas Senate race since 1988. How is he doing it? He's doing it with independents. That is how he would do it.

Take a look at this. OK, Texas Senate fall polling among Indies. Beto O'Rourke was actually down four points among independents at this point. Look at James Talarico. He is up. He is up significantly. Up 23 points. That is how James Talarico is, by the smallest of margins, slightly ahead, though within the margin of error, in a historically Republican state, is because he's putting up historic numbers with independents.

[08:40:08]

BERMAN: It's important to point out in Texas, the numbers underneath the hood there are very different than anything we've ever seen.

ENTEN: That is exactly right. It's historic polling, which may lead to a historic result for Democrats.

BERMAN: Harry Enten, thank you very much.

ENTEN: Thank you, my friend.

BERMAN: Kate.

BOLDUAN: Breaking overnight, Russia launched another massive drone attack targeting Ukraine's energy grid. Ukraine says Russia used 176 drones, most of them jet-powered drones. Only further reinforcing how critical it is to clear up the ongoing mystery around Ukraine's access to the satellite internet system Starshield. It's become Ukraine's lifeline on the battlefield. President Trump said yesterday that Elon Musk had fully restored access to it, except Ukrainian sources and officials tell CNN this morning that the limits and restrictions are still very much in place.

Joining me right now is Democratic congresswoman from Pennsylvania, Madeleine Dean. She sits on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congresswoman, thank you for being here.

You also were on a call with Zelenskyy just this week about all of this.

I am confused why this is still so confusing. Someone made a call to restrict the access. Someone would then be able to lift those limits. And CNN's reporting is that Starshield access has not been fully restored. What is your understanding of what is going on?

REP. MADELEINE DEAN (D-PA): Well, we don't have clarity on it. But I was on a call. It was about ten Democrat -- ten members of the House, and maybe as many senators, in a bipartisan call with Mr. Zelenskyy. It was not classified, so I'm free to talk about it.

But Mr. Zelenskyy told us over the weekend the impact of the interruption of Starshield. The impact with two different sets of attacks coming in. What happens is, the throttling down when these offensive and defensive weapons are moving, they should be able to move at speeds of up to a little more than 300 miles an hour. What Mr. Zelenskyy said is they throttled down to a cap of about 100 miles an hour. Of course, limiting their ability to hit the mark, to either, you know, destroy an incoming or to do something offensive.

It's incredibly troubling. You talk about historic. I had a town hall this weekend -- this week at Penn State Abington, a local college campus. And people are gravely concerned over the betrayal by our president of Ukraine at this time, buying diesel, pumping hundreds of millions of dollars into Russia for the purchase of diesel, signing an executive order Friday night late waiving all sanctions on Russia, interfering, of course, with Starshield and Starlink. And the other very damning piece of evidence is the failure to share intelligence information consistently with Mr. Zelenskyy. That led, and he described it in the call, that led to them not being able to provide early warning to citizens. And, of course, it led to death.

This is a historic moment. It should not be lost on anybody that this administration is partnering with Putin against our ally, Ukraine.

BOLDUAN: Well, that is something people are focusing on this election.

Another huge driver of this election is what's happening with Iran and the impacts of it on the U.S. economy and, well, foreign policy. Mike Waltz, the U.S. ambassador to the U.N., just acknowledged in a new interview with "The Financial Times" that the U.S. could still be at war with Iran a year from now. Here's how he put it. "I'm not going to put out hypotheticals. One would hope that they'll come to the table in a meaningful way before that," Waltz told the FT in an interview, "but the president and the U.S. Navy can maintain this blockade on Iranian ports for the foreseeable future."

I mean, the U.S. is prepared for a long standoff is what he is saying. Is that prudent war planning? What is your reaction to what you hear from the U.S. ambassador to the U.N. now?

DEAN: Stunning and somehow not surprising. This is an administration that jumped into this war on February the 28th, ill partnered with Mr. Netanyahu, who has his own purposes for this war, without a plan for actually what was the mission. And yet we have tens of thousands of military in theater there exquisitely doing what they are told to do, but they are stuck with a civilian leadership who doesn't have a clue how to get out of this war.

Mr. Waltz's statement is disappointing, to say the least. And you know what's missing here? And I've met, as a member of the Foreign Affairs Committee, I've met with many of the ambassadors from the region. We're missing real diplomats. Send the clowns out and send in the diplomats.

[08:45:01]

We need an end to this war.

And this is all connected to what this administration pays no attention to, costs. Everything is more expensive here in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania. Take a look at the price of gas. You reported this morning, brent crude up to $114 a barrel. In some places, gas going up in days, 30, 20, 30 cents. This is an administration that got into a war they don't know how to get out of. People are dying. This administration will be remembered for rot and rubble. And I wish we would get diplomats in there to end this war and to properly partner with Ukraine, with President Zelenskyy, and to make sure both of these wars come to an end.

BOLDUAN: Turning the focus back here at the moment. The controversial ad out of Ohio about the mother of the Democratic candidate for governor, Amy Acton, clearly not your district, not your state. You have done a lot of work when it comes to legislation for sexual abuse and sexual assault survivors. We've talked about this in the past. The president said last night that he -- he spoke with Vivek Ramaswamy and told him to keep the ad up. I want to play for you what he told a crowd in Iowa.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Things about -- well who knows the daughter. She really said she was a horrible liar. I mean it was crazy. And he made a commercial. He put it up. You know, like, I would do.

So, I told him, leave it up and look upstairs and say, thank you, God, very much. I appreciate it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: What's your reaction to where this is going in Ohio right now?

DEAN: Very strange the meanderings of the president on that. Because, remember, he said, I don't know anything about it. And then goes on to side with a mother whose children were taken away from her.

This is such a low. Kate, I didn't see this low coming. But it shows the desperation that disgraceful desperation of campaigns, now supported by the president of the United States. You know, I'm working hard here in Pennsylvania for what I call the flippable five. We have five terrific candidates who I believe will be successful in getting us the majority in the U.S. Congress. And we are seeing some of those races facing the same kind of low, deplorable advertisements. We've got to do something around campaign finance reform and around decency in campaigning.

BOLDUAN: Decency seems a long shot goal right now in American politics. Eleven days to go until voters decide.

Congresswoman, thank you for your time. Thanks for coming in.

John.

BERMAN: All right, this morning, the Justice Department is investigating allegations of contract misconduct at the Department of Homeland Security, possibly connected to Corey Lewandowski, who was once Donald Trump's campaign manager and then played a huge role in the department under former DHS Secretary Kristi Noem.

Now, in a new poll from Fox, more voters say they were concerned about corruption than any other issue. You can see 88 percent. It tops even inflation as an issue voters are concerned about.

With us now, Miles Taylor. He was chief of staff to former Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen during President Trump's first term.

Miles, it's great to see you.

I know you have an op-ed on the issue of corruption writ large I want to talk about, but I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you about what's going on at DHS now with the investigation given the fact that you worked there. What's your impression of what is known about what they were looking into and the question surrounding Lewandowski, who says he hasn't been contacted by any Justice Department investigators and said he did nothing wrong?

MILES TAYLOR, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY KIRSTJEN NIELSEN: Well, we know, John, that originally they started to look into this because there were allegations that Corey Lewandowski was mixing his private business interests with his -- with his work at DHS. He was a special government employee at DHS, which means he was allowed to continue private work. That is now apparently starting to catch up to him. But we're waiting to see what the ultimate conclusions are.

BERMAN: All right, now, I read your op-ed on corruption. We saw Fox News voters say basically it's their top concern. Corruption is a big word, and it can mean a lot of different things. What do you think it means and what do you think voters are responding to?

TAYLOR: Well, look, for us it's wrongdoing, riches and revenge, the use of federal power for those three things. And you put up that 88 percent figure, John. Americans are concerned about this.

I'll say another thing. That number is historic. I looked back. There has never been an election in recorded history where corruption was the number one issue for Americans. They are watching federal taxpayer dollars misspent. They are stressed out watching that taxpayer money misspent. They are watching people get rich off of their time in government, and they are seeing their prices go up.

But that's the other piece of it, John, their prices are going up.

[08:50:01]

Their lives are getting more expensive, in part because of that corruption. They are seeing the president of the United States misuse his powers to impose tariffs, to undertake wars Congress hasn't approved, and it's affecting them. So, the American people, quite literally, feel like they are getting poorer while people in power are getting richer. And again, we've never seen the numbers hit this level before, which says to me, this is going to be a midterm election that is seismic.

BERMAN: So, if Democrats do take control of one of the chambers, what do you think they should do about this? Take the House. What should they do in terms of hearings and oversight? And I say this, you know, you were in the 2024 election a big threat to democracy, for lack of a better, you know, phrase there type of guy. Democrats sometimes are accused of focusing too much on that. And, you know, and it doesn't necessarily help them at the polls. So, what do you think Democrats should do?

TAYLOR: Well, look, one piece of it is accountability, John. They have to hold people accountable who have engaged in acts of corruption. And I've talked to a lot of members of Congress about this. That is going to happen.

But they're going to do it different than Donald Trump has done it. They're going to follow the rule of law. They're going to follow the leads. That's one piece of it. But as you note, this can't just be about holding people accountable.

It's got to be about preventing a president from any party from engaging in these types of acts of corruption again. And so, it's got to be about reform. And that's actually where I see some good news.

I think, at the end of the second Trump administration, we're going to see a historic moment for Democrats and Republicans to come together around reforms bigger than the ones undertaken in the Watergate era. And for one big reason, Republicans, even though they've stood by their man, do not want a Democrat to come into office and wield power the way Donald Trump has. There's going to be a moment there, it's not a guarantee, but a moment where we might see some of those very, very big reforms to our government to restore the constitutional order in this country.

BERMAN: It'll be interesting to watch if they frame it around reform. You bring up a good point and a good possibility that's different than just oversight and something punitive.

Miles Taylor, great to see you this morning. Thank you very much.

Sara.

SIDNER: All right, thank you, John.

Ahead, President Trump and Republicans pushed hard for redistricting in several states thinking it would give them a good edge in the midterms. But will their plan backfire?

Also, a pilot forced to turn a highway into a runway. What triggered this emergency?

Those stories and more, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:56:28]

BERMAN: All right, this morning, this is a look at how The Cook Political Report rates the races for the House. This was actually as of last night. They updated it a little bit and shifted it even more toward the Democrats. But as of last night, they say that 214 seats are leaning or likely or solid blue, 200 seats Republican. Right, don't forget, Democrats only need to get to 218 seats. So, they would need to pick up four, presumably, in those toss-up seats. So, you can see how close they are.

And this is even though -- even though, remember, the Republicans led this huge redistricting effort over the last year and a half, which the Democrats then matched. So, one of the questions people are asking is, did this Republican effort backfire?

With us now is John Bisognano. He is the president of the National Democratic Redistricting Committee.

John, it's great to see you this morning. And look, you know, based on the map now, Democrats look pretty close.

Does this mean that Republicans got it wrong?

JOHN BISOGNANO, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC REDISTRICTING COMMITTEE: Look -- thank you for having me, John.

What it means is that Donald Trump launched an entire war. What we're -- we'll know the final numbers at the end of this cycle, but it looks like they're going to have spent over $200 million trying to push forward this endeavor to cheat the voters and gerrymander the maps as much as possible. And in the end, they're going to end up netting just a one or two seats for this massive, massive political onslaught that they put forward.

And I think what is so important to remember, and put yourself back in the moment in time when this started about a year ago, we had financial institutions, big law firms folding to Donald Trump. Everyone was in this mindset that Donald Trump can do whatever he wants, and he hit a brick wall that was the American people. And Eric Holder and Hakeem Jeffries leading an effort to fight back against this realistic, crazy endeavor that he was going to try and push to cheat as many people as he could.

BERMAN: OK, you say crazy endeavor. Does that mean that after this election you think Democrats should be done trying to gerrymander more Democratic states because, you know, for instance, New York here, there is a lot of room to try to pick up more Democratic seats in New York. That's all of New England there. Do you think that Democrats should say, hey, they're not going to try to get more seats out of -- out of the -- out of the whole thing?

BISOGNANO: Look, I think just like this cycle, every Democratic state that has the opportunity to respond to what Republicans are doing needs to be prepared to do so. And I say that because of such a horrific Supreme Court decision that came down so late in the cycle, talking, of course, about the Cala (ph) decision, that has the tremendous opportunity to disenfranchise specifically black voters across the south.

If Republicans choose to go down that path and do what they have been claiming they were going to do, start redrawing seats across the south again, there will be Democratic states that are prepared to respond. And I think that's necessary. Under no circumstance can we allow the U.S. House of Representatives, which is supposed to be the most responsive body in this government, that's how it was created, that House of Representatives cannot go back to the era of 2012, 2014, where one party has sheer dominance and can only win the speakership.

BERMAN: So, no disarmament, as it were, from the Democrats you're suggesting here.

[08:59:53]

And just, I'm curious, the fact that the Republicans haven't achieved more of an advantage here, is it because, you know, Democrats did a better job you think redrawing the map in California than Republicans did in Texas, or is it more about the political environment?