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Huge Wildfire Forcing Thousands to Flee; The GOP & 2012; Ohio State Looks for New Coach After Scandal; Nadal Beats Federer; Casey Anthony Trial Continues
Aired June 05, 2011 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon.
We begin tonight with a developing story: a huge wildfire forcing thousands to flee for their lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This fire as I pull out, you can see how large it is. It spans anywhere from 30 miles-plus south to north.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Thirty miles-plus. It is being called the third largest wildfire in Arizona history. Parts of the state are blanketed tonight with thick smoke as this gigantic wildfire burns out of control.
Huge tracks of bone-dry forest are erupting into towering flames. It's called a wallow fire, the wallow fire, near the town of Springville in northeast Arizona. It's just one of several large fires across that state. Altogether they have torched, get this, a quarter million acres. Thousands of people have been forced to flee their homes, sometimes with just moments notice.
We want to get right now to the scene and Jared Dillingham with our affiliate KTVK. He is in Springerville.
Jared, please take us to the scene. What's happening there right now?
JARED DILLINGHAM, REPORTER, KTVK: One week ago, and you can see these winds are picking up. These wind have been driving it all week. And in the one week it's sparked, it's grown to about 180,000 acres, and that as you said is what's made it the third largest wildfire in state history. And we've had a number of them here in the desert southwest.
Now, the reason you can't see flames behind us or even a big plume of smoke rising out of this fire is because this thick layer of dense smoke is just choking the entire region now. On a normal day right now, you'd be looking at the beautiful mountains outside of this town, but certainly nothing today.
As for damage done so far on the wildfire in eastern Arizona, several cabins have burned. But for now, the firefighters have been able to keep the flames away from the towns in this part of the state. Strong wind still coming through. They have helped all week to drive this fire. They are expected to continue to pick up throughout the night.
They are also predicting a chance of lightning in the area. In its one week of burning, this fire has proven difficult to fight and very unpredictable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF DEP. BRANNON EAGAR, APACHE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: The conditions are so dry and the fire advances so fast that the fire will build a large plume on spot and move ahead three to five miles in a short time, a couple of hours.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
DILLINGHAM: Now, around 1,500 people have been evacuated from their homes in the different mountain towns in this eastern part of Arizona, right near the New Mexico border. A number of other towns are on standby if the flames creep closer to their homes.
Don, around 100 people chose, as they always do, to stay home and try to defend their homes against these fires -- much to the disappointment and chagrin of the local sheriff's deputies. So far, no injuries to report, but this fire burning out of control, zero percent containment, Don.
LEMON: Hey, Jared. I have a question for you -- you showed us and you said you can usually see the mountains behind you. We can see the smoke, but it doesn't look like you are that close to the front lines. So, my question is, why won't they let the media get closer, is it for safety?
DILLINGHAM: Well, we are 15 miles north of the fire, main fire, anyway, and several years ago, a number of people died on a wildfire. And since then, access to the front lines of wildfires, at least in the national forestland, has been limited. So, it is burning towards us, but they have set up a command post here about 15 miles north and they're not letting anybody -- us or homeowners -- back into the fire zone.
LEMON: Jared Dillingham with our affiliate KTVK, thank you very much and stay safe. I'm sure we'll be coming back to you as well.
We're going to get to our meteorologist here, Jacqui Jeras, in just a moment. She's going to tell us about the weather conditions there and what we can expect. But joining me now by phone is Scott Hunt, he is a state forester in Arizona.
So, Scott, you heard the reporter there. He said he's 15 miles away from the scene. Obviously, you can see it. How bad is the fire situation in your state right now?
SCOTT HUNT, STATE FORESTER (via telephone): Well, we are pretty busy right now, Don. You know, in my 35 years of working for the state, this is in the top five range.
Currently, we have three large wildfires burning in the state and you just heard about the wallow fire. We have two others in the southeast part of the state. One is called the horseshoe fire. And it's about 100,000 acres. And we have another one called the murky (ph) fire and it's about 22,000 acres
So, right now, we have burned about 266,000 acres. If you put that in perspective, that's about 415 square miles or about the footprint of the size of the city of Phoenix. So, it's a good chunk of ground. We have a lot of residents that have been evacuated from homes. And I'm very hopeful that the firefighters can start getting control of these, so we can get the folks back home.
LEMON: Hey, Scott, this is Don Lemon here, but I want to bring in Jacqui Jeras earlier here -- because, Jacqui, I'm sure you can help me to speak to Mr. Hunt. Look at those fires. You are looking at the video there. You heard the report, you heard him -- the size of Phoenix.
JACQUI JERAS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes.
LEMON: So, what's the concern?
And don't go anywhere, Mr. Hunt, we are going to continue to talk to you.
What's the concern when it comes to the wind and weather conditions there?
JERAS: Well, there's been a lot of extreme fire behavior and there's been a lot of what we call spotting, so the winds will blow embers and new fires will start ahead of that.
You know, Mr. Hunt, a lot of people when they think about Arizona, we think about cactus, we think about desert and sand. But that's very different in eastern Arizona. Can you kind of describe the topography here, as well as all the trees in the area?
HUNT: Well, eastern Arizona where the wildfires are is a very beautiful area. It is actually spruce, fur, forest, fine forest, mixed kind of forest. It's very high elevation, about 8,000 feet elevation. And it's kind of the recreational ground for folks in the desert during the summer. And we get summer cooler weather.
LEMON: Jacqui, you know, you can talk about this -- because I'm wondering, lightning and high wind, they are making it difficult for fire crews, Mr. Hunt. And Jacqui will weigh in as the weather conditions are important for you. I'm sure you could use a heavy dose of rain or some moisture, but are lightning and high winds making it difficult for your fire crews -- Mr. Hunt?
HUNT: Yes, you know -- were you talking to me?
LEMON: Yes. HUNT: Yes, you know, we do have some dry lightning forecasts the next couple of days. And what dry lightning is when a thunderstorm comes in and just drops lightning without any precipitation. And simply, you know, with dry lightning, we also get high winds.
The parts of the conditions are fuels, vegetations are extremely dry. So, when the dry lightning it does touch the ground, there's a very high possibility of starting wildfires. We had a lot of our resources, our local resources, committed to these three large fires and we are bringing in additional resources from out of state to bolster our existing resources.
You did mention the area up around the wallow fire as being forest, but we also have others, these are country, that's also burning, too. The two fires down the southern part of the state are more desert- like. And those are burning as well, with a lot of grass burning down there.
LEMON: Mr. Hunt --
HUNT: Yesterday, we just --
LEMON: I hate to cut you off, I'm sorry. There's a bit of a delay here, but I want to ask you is, just before you go, injuries, fatalities, can you update us?
HUNT: You know, our firefighters are having a very good safety record on all the fires. It has been very minor-type injuries. We are doing pretty well there.
LEMON: Scott Hunt with the state forest there -- he's a state forester in Arizona. Thank you very much, sir. I know you have a lot of work to do. We're going to let you go.
Jacqui Jeras, you heard him talk about the dry lightning and wind.
JERAS: Right.
LEMON: They have been very lucky now not to have any injuries or fatalities. If this continues, it's going to get, it's going to be much, much worse for everyone.
JERAS: Yes, weather conditions, unfortunately are going to be getting worse in the next couple of days. We have had gusty winds today and weather has been extremely dry. This is the area of the wallow fire and this is the other one he was talking about in the southeastern parts of Arizona. And if you look over here offshore of California, that's where we have an area of low pressure.
And that storm is going to be making its way up towards here, to the north of Arizona, which means the winds are going to be increasing. They're going to become gusty. And we don't think there's enough moisture to produce thunderstorms, but we are likely going to see those dry thunderstorms he was talking about. So, you get the lightning but you don't get any rain associated with this. So, that's a real problem. In addition to that, we have had an ongoing drought across eastern Arizona -- just exceptional dry conditions here, which has been that way for months.
And let's talk about the terrain really quick on our Google Earth. We'll zoom into this fire and just kind of give you an idea of where the city of Alpine is located where they are getting people to voluntarily evacuate. And as we zoom in one more time, it will show you how hilly this is. So, it's very, very difficult for firefighters to get a handle and climb and get into this area.
So, they've got about 12 helicopters there using also to try and drop fire retardant and water on top of the fires.
LEMON: Our meteorologist Jacqui Jeras, don't go far because we're going to be covering this developing story throughout the evening here on CNN. We appreciate it.
Up next, Mother Nature turns a day of fun into a day of terror. Winds blow -- look at that inflatable bounce houses, up and over with more than a dozen kids going along for a very scary ride.
And a music star's home catches fire with his children inside.
And if you have any questions, you want any information on any of the things we are covering here on CNN. You can reach out to us on Twitter, on Facebook, on CNN.com/Don and on Foursquare.com as well. We're back in moments.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my God. Oh, my God.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Oh, my God is right. A day at the soccer field on Long Island turned into chaos when three bounce houses blew away with the kids actually still inside of them.
I want you to take a look how a gust of wind made one of the inflatables blow around like it was a plastic bag in the breeze. Unbelievable. Thirteen people were hurt, but the injuries were not serious. It happened Saturday at a tournament hosted by the Oceanside United Soccer Club.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: The wind blew everything down. It felt like someone was grabbing my neck and they were dragging me.
MARIANNA RHATIGAN, MOTHER: I was getting hot dogs and I just happened to turn around and saw the slide blowing in the wind. And I just -- I couldn't believe it. It was like something out of a movie.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, no criminal charges are expected and our New York affiliate WABC is reporting there were 10 bounce house accidents so far this year nationwide.
Country singer Trace Adkins lost his home to fire, but his three kids and their nanny managed to escape and they are unhurt. It destroyed his 5,000-square-foot house in the national suburb of Brentwood. Adkins was on a plane to Alaska when the fire started on Saturday. His wife was driving a few blocks away. She credits some recent fire safety training at school for her kids' ability to get out. No word yet on what caused that fire.
You know, with the president now in Saudi Arabia getting medical treatment, there's renewed hope for peace in Yemen. A tribal leader waging war against the government has agreed to a truce with the country's interim ruler. He is asking his fighters to evacuate buildings already seized and to halt all fighting in the capital.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)
LEMON: News that President Ali Abdullah Saleh had left the country sparked celebrations. A senior U.S. official says the president had shrapnel wounds and severe burns to his face and chest from an attack on the presidential palace Friday. The government insists he'll return after undergoing treatment in Saudi Arabia.
The Israeli military is keeping a close watch on the Golan Heights border with Syria tonight. Soldiers fired on protesters who stormed across the border today. Syria claims 25 people were killed and more than 300 wounded. The protests marked the 44th anniversary of the 1967 Six-Day War. Israel seized the Golan Heights from Syria in that war.
Meantime, Defense Secretary Robert Gates is making his final stop in Afghanistan and he gave the troops an emotional sendoff. Gates told a group of U.S. forces that he feels responsible for their well-being and noted that he signed the deployment papers that put them there.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: I just want you to know that I think about you every day. I feel your hardship and your sacrifice and your burden and that of your families more than you can possibly know. You are, I believe, the best our country has to offer. And you will be in my thoughts and prayers every day for the rest of my life. Thank you.
(CHEERS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: An emotional defense secretary right there. As for the plan withdrawal of the U.S. troops, Gates said he expects it to be a mix of combat and support elements. In his words, "I have confidence we'll strike the right balance." Up next here on CNN, who are these Republicans running for president? And can any of them defeat President Barack Obama? They could get some help from the sluggish economy? We're going to talk about that with Will Cain and L.Z. Granderson. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: -- and ESPN.com and a contributor to our own CNN.com.
Good to see both of you. So, let's start with the Republicans.
So, I want you to listen to some of these names that I'm about to run off here -- Bachmann, Cain, Gingrich, Paul, Pawlenty and as of tomorrow, Santorum.
So, Will, here's a question: Are these MVPs of the GOP -- can any of these people defeat president Obama?
WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. Look, Don, no president, no incumbent president, has won re-election since FDR when the unemployment rate has been above 7.2 percent. So, that would put the Vegas odds pretty strongly against President Obama.
But, look, are any of them MVPs? No. Count me as among those that are unimpressed. I expect the statistic I just gave you to be tested with this election.
LEMON: Well, thank you, Will, for stealing my question to L.Z. about FDR.
CAIN: No.
LEMON: I'm going to ask you -- I'm going to ask you that, L.Z., later. So, L.Z., this is your question. Check out this poll, it's a CNN/Opinion Research poll and it's from late May. Just 16 percent are very satisfied, 45 percent are fairly satisfied, 39 percent say that they are not satisfied. So, is there a winner in this group in your estimation, L.Z.?
L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN.COM COLUMNIST: I'm sure someone has to win the GOP primary, I guess. But as far as the presidency, no. I mean, what you are seeing in those numbers is simply the fact that even the own Republicans recognized that no one is saying anything about having a concrete plan. They are all criticizing Obama but they're not having don't have a clear plan what they would do if they were in office.
LEMON: Here's my question. This brings us to people who are not running -- well, at least they say they are not running but then who knows. Names like Christie, Daniels, Huckabee, Trump, who may still, you know, change their minds. Even Rudy Giuliani who didn't go anywhere last time he ran. So -- and there, of course, is Sarah Palin.
So, Will, these are the big names here. Why are they on the sidelines? Is it strategy? Is it helping or hurting?
CAIN: That's a great question, Don. I know now why they pay you to ask these questions.
Look, you know, I'd add some names to that. How about Congressman Paul Ryan, Senator Tom Coburn, ex-Florida Governor Jeb Bush? Any of these guys jump in, Don, and they go straight to the front of the pack.
Why aren't they running? There are so many reasons. Paul Ryan knew he's not quite --
LEMON: Hey, Will --
CAIN: Yes?
LEMON: And, Will, some of them have even bigger name recognition. They have the ability to raise more money than the candidates who are already in there. So, again, yes, why aren't they running?
CAIN: Well, I think we can look at a couple reasons. Each of these guys have their own -- Paul Ryan knew. He's not to center stage yet. Coburn and Christie, look, they have jobs.
And for some, it's as simple as they don't want to put their family through it. That seems to have been the issue with governor of Indiana, Mitch Daniels, and maybe Jeb Bush. There's no singular reason.
And you know what? We also have to acknowledge this -- maybe it's because they don't feel that they are an election possibility is not great. I don't know why they aren't running.
LEMON: OK, L.Z., now to Will's question that he asked earlier and I'm going to -- that he answered earlier, I'm going to let you answer the question now.
GRANDERSON: OK.
LEMON: So, let's talk about the president. This week was brutal for the economy. We got the report that shows that manufacturing has declined, car sales down, housing prices are still falling, the stock market took a tumble, and hiring slowed dramatically.
So, that is depressing but that is a big mountain to climb for any incumbent president, L.Z.
GRANDERSON: Absolutely. First of all, I want to just tell Will the reason no one is running is because of Obama. That's the primary reason.
And even with those numbers you just talked about, Don, the simple fact is, is that he came into what we all know was the worst economic outlook of this country in many, many generations. And what he's done, yes, the numbers have been slow but they have not stopped. We still have 14 straight months of job growth in the private sector. We still have 14 straight months in the manufacturing section.
So, yes, it's slowed down but it hasn't stopped. And it's because of the policies he's implemented. That's why no one is running against him, they won't win.
LEMON: OK, I will let you answer that, Will.
CAIN: Bold, L.Z., bold.
LEMON: But I'm out of time.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: I told you when I introduced him, he's always causing trouble, so there you go. So, Will, you get to answer next time. Thanks to both of you guys, OK?
CAIN: Thanks, Don.
LEMON: And I have a quick reminder for our audience. I'll be in New Hampshire this Friday to begin our coverage of the Republican presidential candidates' debate. Look at that picture.
I'm going to be reporting live and anchoring the show from there through the weekend. So, make sure you watch and join us and make sure you watch the debate a week from Monday. The Republicans square off at 8:00 Eastern live from New Hampshire, right here on CNN.
All right. Let's move on now and talk sports. One of the most successful college football programs ever in shambles. Its head coach out of there. Its star quarterback, well, what's next? Who knows?
What happened at Ohio State? "Sports Illustrated" senior investigative reporter Jon Wertheim joins me next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Well, last Sunday's Indianapolis 500 was one of the most exciting ever for the fans. And it was even better for rookie driver Charlie Kimball. He finished 13th and established it first by just being in the race.
Here's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, with today's human factor.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLIE KIMBALL, RACE CAR DRIVER: Growing up, I wanted to race professionally. I wanted to race in the Indianapolis 500.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is 10.9 seconds behind the race leader.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This year, Charlie Kimball finally fulfilled his dream. In order to get here, though, he had to overcome a big hurdle.
You see, four years ago, he was told he had diabetes. So, Kimball took time to figure out how to cope with his diagnosis and figure out if he could race with diabetes -- something Indy car officials said was a first. To qualify for these races, he not only had to be fast, he had to be healthy.
KIMBALL: If I go to high, my reaction time is slow and I'm not competitive. If I go too low, I get lightheaded. Go low enough, I could pass out and cause an accident.
GUPTA: His diabetes led him to a sponsor.
Kimball's pit crew consists of mechanics, engineers and his doctor. He has to make sure his body is ready along with his car, which now has special equipment.
KIMBALL: I wear a continuous glucose monitor, which is a sensor that I have on my body. And it reads blood glucose and wirelessly transmits to a pager-like display that I have Velcro to the steering wheel.
GUPTA: And he has a backup system designed by his father, just in case.
KIMBALL: I got a drink bottle mounted in the car, fill it with orange juice, which is full of sugar. The tube runs into my helmet. Without having to take my hands off my steering wheel, I can drink that orange juice, bring my sugars up and I don't have to stop.
GUPTA: Kimball is determined to get the message out that diabetes doesn't have to stand in the way of your dreams.
KIMBALL: I am living proof you can do almost anything you want in life with diabetes. You can even drive a race car a couple of hundred miles an hour.
GUPTA: Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Our stop story this hour, wildfires raging in the Southwest. The fire is now one of the largest ever in Arizona and it's out of control, zero percent contained.
And the Casey Anthony trial -- the murder of a little girl, the prosecution's case against her mother, the emotional testimony of her grandparents. We are going in-depth with a team of guests in the CNN NEWSROOM special report.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: All right. That's students and fans rallying in support of Ohio State coach Jim Tressel, forced to resign for covering up players getting money and other benefits. You know, the Buckeye star player now suspended and under further investigation.
So, let's talk about all of it with "Sports Illustrated's" Jon Wertheim. There's Tressel on this week's cover.
So, Jon, Tressel is out, but this investigation is not over. So, where do matters stand right now on the investigation?
JON WERTHEIM, SR. INVEST. REPORTER, SPORTS ILLUSTRATED: Well, there's a star player that's under investigation, everybody is sort of waiting to hear what Ohio State's fate is going to be. You know, they are looking for a new coach. They have an interim coach -- they are looking for a new coach. A lot of who they get depends on how severe the punishment is.
Every time there's one of the scandals, the NCAA says there's nothing wrong systemically. It's just this rogue school. And the schools says, oh, there's nothing wrong with us. It is just these rogue individuals. I don't want to get radical here, but I think this could be one of these cases that really changes the way we think about Ohio State or college sports. Ohio State's Athletic Department, nine figures in revenue, more than $100 million in revenue. You are bound to have corruption when you are not paying those who are generating of that.
But this is an interesting case to watch because this is really college corruption, typical college scandal. In a nutshell, you say this system is designed -- this system is so flawed, it is almost designed for corruption.
LEMON: Listen, you feel free to go ahead and talk about this. I have heard this a lot, especially when it comes to college football. Go on. Why do you think you are being radical about this? Many people believe the same thing you believe, and have voiced the same concerns.
WERTHEIM: College sports has gotten so big and the money is so great that it just isn't going to mesh. It is some kind of economics 101 that, when labor is not getting paid and generating all the revenue, big surprise, guys may want a couple free tattoos in exchange for swag when they see the revenue they are generating from the school. We have been talking about this for a long time, but you just feel like it has become such a big beast now, something is bound to change. The notion that a college scholarship is fair tradeoff for ten, sometimes hundreds of millions of dollars of revenue, won't fly anymore.
LEMON: Back to Ohio State. The focus is shifting from Tressel to the star quarterback, as you said, Terrell Pryor, and other players. Are we likely to see further punishment for these players, Jon?
WERTHEIM: Well, Terrell Pryor is already facing five games when the season starts. Now he's being looked at for another indiscretion dealing with cares. I mean, he may well go to the supplemental -- some sort of NFL draft this summer. Again, this goes to a bigger issue. He's going to miss five games minimum. He won't win the Heisman Trophy as a result. He may do more time. But again, we are talking about punishing individuals for what's a systemic problem in my opinion.
LEMON: OK, Jon, let's move on to talk about the French Open. I was tweeting and everyone says, Don, stop tweeting, we are watching the French Open.
(LAUGHTER) So Rafael Nadal beat Roger Federer in four sets today for the sixth French title. Is he moving through to ranks of the all-time tennis greats here, Jon?
WERTHEIM: That's really the sentiment right now. I mean, Roger Federer has more grand slams now at 16-10, but Nadal is younger and his record against Federer is -- I mean, it is unbelievable. He's won more than two-thirds of their matches. Right now, he is 17-8 against Roger Federer. A lot of people are saying, waiting a second, if Roger Federer is the best of all time, how come he has a losing record against the second-best guy in his era? So I think Nadal has made this a very interesting conversation, beating Federer again, winning yet another grand slam.
You know, it's funny. Right after Pete -- Pete Sampras was the best of all time. He doesn't hold that too long before Federer clips his hand. And now we've sort of anointed Federer as the best of all time. And all of a sudden, Nadal is coming on strong. Right now, still Federer in my book. But, Nadal, he's got four years to cap him basically
LEMON: Yes, and, Jon Wertheim, thank you for that.
And this is a show where you can be radical and speak your name. All right, sir?
(LAUGHTER)
Appreciate it.
WERTHEIM: I like that.
LEMON: Let's get the headlines right now. Massive wildfires in Arizona are forcing thousands to flee their homes tonight. More than a quarter million acres have burned over the past week. One of the largest in state history is the Wallow Fire (ph) in northeast Arizona near the town of Springerville. The cause of the blaze, which has scorched 180,000 acres, is under investigation right now.
Yemen is celebrating the departure of their president, at least temporarily, and the possibility of a truce. A spokesman says a tribal leader agreed with Yemen's vice president to stop the fighting. President Ali Abdullah Saleh is in Saudi Arabia getting medical treatment after being wounded in an attack on the palace. But the government insists he will return.
Israel says its soldiers fired on an angered mob today, trying to cross the border between Syria and the occupied Golan Heights. Syria claimed 25 people were killed and more than 300 wounded while protesters stormed across the border to protest Israel's seizure of the Golan Heights in 1967's Six-Day War. Today is the anniversary of the start of that war.
LEMON: One farmer is producing enough sweet potatoes to feed four million people. Pretty amazing stuff. But not for the sweet potato capital of the world. Our Tom Foreman is tells us how this simple food is helping "Build Up America."
(BUILDING UP AMERICA)
LEMON: All right, Tom.
A little girl murdered, her own mother is accused, and the nation, the world, really, riveted to every single word. Up next, a "CNN NEWSROOM" special report, "The Casey Anthony Trial." A prosecutor, a psychologist and a former FBI criminal profiler, who worked on the case, is going to join me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: And now for our "CNN NEWSROOM" special report. "The Casey Anthony Trial" is one of the most talked-about stories in the country right now. A little girl found dead months after she disappeared and her own mother accused of killing her, then hiding the truth from her family and friends.
We have a great panel of guests to talk about all of this for you.
But first, Vinnie Politan, from our sister network, "In Session," on TruTV, on how we got here.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: There's something wrong. I found my daughter's car today and it smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car.
VINNIE POLITAN, HOST, IN SESSION: Here's a statement right here. It says "Monday, June 9, 2008, between 9:00 a.m. and 1:00 p.m., I, Casey Anthony, took my daughter, Caylee Marie Anthony, to her nanny's apartment."
June 16th is a big, big day. There's a lot of things going on. First, that's the day, at 12:50 p.m., when Casey's dad, George, says that he last sees little Caylee. Then investigators have a bunch of phone records from that day. Looking at these records, Casey makes a ton of calls, including eight calls to her mom, Cindy.
Also, this is the day that Casey Anthony moves out of her parents' house. She leaves.
Then things get more interesting. Later in the night, around 7:54 p.m., at a Blockbuster, there's surveillance video. You can see her then-boyfriend, Tony Lazzaro, and Casey Anthony arm in arm, walking into that Blockbuster to rent a couple movies. But what's also noticeable about the picture, there's no Caylee there.
June 18th or 19th, this is when Casey Anthony's neighbor says that she came over, knocked on the door to borrow a shovel. Now according to the neighbor, she needs the shovel to take care of some bamboo shoots or something in the backyard. It is also on these days, and this is interesting, because the neighbor said he never saw Casey Anthony really use the garage, yet sometime during those days, she uses the garage, but doesn't pull into it straight. She backs her car into the garage.
And this is where Casey Anthony worked as a shot girl. This is where Casey Anthony is up on stage dancing with that other woman in those pictures. All that during the same time frame when her child is missing and she says she is looking for Caylee.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Joining me right now to talk about this, Holly Hughes, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. Windy Walsh is in L.A., a human behavior expert. And Jim Clemente, in L.A., a retired FBI special agent and an adviser, writer for "Criminal Minds." He also worked on the Casey Anthony case. And Drew Petrimoulx, an Orlando reporter for WBDO radio. He's been in the courtroom. Leonard Pitts is in Washington. He is a syndicated columnist for "The Miami Herald" and the winner of a Pulitzer Prize for commentary.
I'm going to start with you, Drew.
You have been in the courtroom and saw some of the drama there, and Vinnie Palatino was talking about. What do you make of Casey Anthony and what's going on in this trial?
DREW PETRIMOULX, REPORT, WBDO RADIO: Well, it is almost a Greek tragedy the way this thing has unfolded in court. Of course, once the defense laid out its opening argument. Basically, saying that Casey was a victim all her life of sexual abuse at the hands of her father, that Caylee had, in fact, drowned in the pool, and the father and her covered it up. Basically, that he knew about the death this whole time and played like he didn't. It really took a turn for the even more dramatic. I can tell you that lines to get inside the courtroom have been starting at about midnight for court to get in the next day at 9:00. So, obviously, there's a lot of public interest about this case. And --
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: You are absolutely right. We have seen the people rushing to get a seat in the morning. I mean, really trampling each other to get a seat for the trial. What we are seeing on television, is it more tense inside of the courtroom, Drew?
PETRIMOULX: You know, it really is. There's peaks and valleys. You know, when we had George and Cindy Anthony on the stand, of course, those were very intense cross-examinations by the defense. But today, we heard from a FBI expert and a crime scene technician. Those are more technical aspects. the state is laying out specific evidence that has to do with things found in her trunk, specifically a hair and some of the things found in the carpet in the trunk of that car. So there's definitely peaks and valleys, but definitely some high peaks.
LEMON: Holly Hughes, a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor, I'm looking at your face as you are watching that. This angers you, doesn't it?
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: This is one of the most horrific things we have ever seen, because not only is this woman accused of murdering her 2.5-year-old daughter, Don, but then, to get herself out of trouble, she throws her family under the bus. It is not even a bus. It is a tank, OK? She has taken her father and her brother, who she knows didn't do anything to her, and she has sullied their reputation beyond belief.
There are millions of people around the world watching this, Don. This is not just the United States. I have people Facebooking me from Australia, down under, asking me questions about this trial. And she has taken her father and her brother, and said to the world, they did this to me, just to get herself out of trouble.
If it is really true, that this was an accident and that the baby drowned in the pool, why is it necessary to say anything beyond that?
LEMON: And Casey's mom, Cindy Anthony, was the one who kick-started the entire investigation, calling police in July of 2008, 31 days after her granddaughter was last seen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: I told you my daughter was missing for months. I found her today but I can't find my granddaughter. She just admitted to me that she's been trying to find her herself. There's something wrong. I found my daughter's car today and it smelled like there's been a dead body in the damn car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: One of the biggest days of testimony we have seen in this case.
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS ANCHOR: A lot going on. A lot of emotional testimony by Cindy Anthony.
CINDY ANTHONY: The smell in the car was like something I had never -- it was pretty strong.
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: The Pontiac Sunfire is the car that the prosecutors say they believe Caylee was once in.
CINDY ANTHONY: Her favorite doll was in the car seat. I sprayed the doll. And I sprayed the doll and I sprayed Febreeze all through the car.
UNIDENTIFIED NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Cindy Anthony breaking down as the prosecution played tapes of her 911 calls.
CINDY ANTHONY: I found out my granddaughter has been taken. We're talking about a 3-year-old little girl.
There's something wrong. It smells like there's been a dead body in the damn car.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That's our sister network, HLN, covered this.
Holly Hughes, let's talk about Cindy Anthony now. What do you make of that? What does that tell you about the grandmother here?
HUGHES: What it tells me is, right up front, she knew something was not right with this story. Listen to her words, Don. What does she say? My daughter tells me the babysitter took this little girl. My daughter says she has not seen her in 31 days but something is wrong. I found my daughter's car and it smells like there has been a dead body in that car. Right away, she is keying in on the fact that this story doesn't make sense. I don't believe it.
If she truly believed that that little girl was off with the baby- sitter, would you even mention the car? Why would you talk about a dead body? She knew in her gut and she couldn't accept it.
LEMON: Retired FBI special agent, Jim Clemente, and advisor and writer to "Criminal Minds."
And when you hear her saying, and hear other people saying, that car smelled like death, does that tell you anything?
JIM CLEMENTE, RETIRED FBI AGENT & ADVISOR, WRITER, CRIMINAL MINDS: Yes, I think it is a very distinct smell that human beings act viscerally too. And I think she knew it instinctively that that was death.
But another thing is the hair that they found in the car that had postmortem banding. It can only come off of a dead body. And not someone who died in the last 15 minutes, but someone who died and had already started to decompose. It is very damning evidence.
But if you look at Cindy's behavior, it is very consistent with someone who is under duress, someone who just found out that something terrible had happened. As opposed to, when you look at Casey's behavior, and listen to her when she makes 911 calls, it is very matter-of-factly that she states things. It is not someone who is under duress who just figured out something is wrong.
LEMON: Leonard Pitts, from the "Miami Herald," stand by. I'm going to let you sum it up here.
But I want to go to Drew Petrimoulx, because he has been in the courtroom.
When Cindy Anthony is on the stand and when she broke down, take us inside the courtroom.
PETRIMOULX: That was a really, really emotional moment in that courtroom. That is when they played the third of three 911 calls after Casey tells her that her daughter had been missing for 31 days. That no one had seen her in 31 days. Cindy Anthony just basically just puts her face into her hands and weeps openly on the stand as this three-minute call, about three-minute call is being played. Casey Anthony, tears are rolling down her face. She is wiping away tears. At one point, the defense tried to play more of that tape, replay it, and Cindy pretty much begged the defense not to play it because it was such an emotional tape for her to hear.
LEMON: So, Leonard Pitts, as the world is watching this, especially Americans, and you are doing commentary on this, what does this say collectively about why people are interested in this? This Cindy Anthony's emotion, Casey Anthony's apparent lying, as they're saying, on the stand, what does this mean? Is this visceral for people who are so interested in this?
LEONARD PITTS, COLUMNIST, MIAMI HERALD: I think it is very visceral. I think there is a tendency or an ability to project yourself into the situation. Frankly, the bizarreness of the circumstances, I think, is also attempts to draw people in. But, I mean, to pull back from this individual case for a moment, this sort of idea of the news as sort of a movie of the week, is not new or is not singular to the Anthony trial.
LEMON: And some of the most dramatic moments in this trial came from Casey Anthony herself. The jury heard several, several hours of recorded jailhouse phone calls between Casey and her family. Next, we go into the courtroom for Casey's reaction to seeing herself, and look at how the calls could affect the trial.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think after this long she would still be local?
CASEY ANTHONY, ON TRIAL FOR MURDER: It's a possibility.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What is your gut telling you right now?
ANTHONY: Why do you have this --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That she's OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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ANTHONY: I've hoped in every way that I possibly can since the day I got here.
GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: You're the one that can control everything.
ANTHONY: No, I -- Dad --
GEORGE ANTHONY: -- the decision.
ANTHONY: Please.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Sweetie --
ANTHONY: I completely --
GEORGE ANTHONY: -- I'm not trying to get you upset.
(CROSSTALK)
ANTHONY: No, but I am upset now.
GEORGE ANTHONY: Casey --
ANTHONY: I'm completely upset. One, the media is going to have a freaking field day with this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Human behavior expert, Wendy Walsh, they are coddling her. They are coddling her.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST & HUMAN BEHAVIOR EXPERT: They are coddling her because this is clearly a fused family who can't remember whose problem is whose. But in watching her listen to the recordings of those jailhouse phone calls, I see her eyes darting in a way that shows she is analyzing. What did I say? Did I say something to incriminate myself? How am I going to answer to that? She is not a grieving mother going, oh, my goodness, I don't want a replay of this awful tragedy that's happen to me. It's, how do I get myself off.
CLEMENTE: Yes, I agree. I think she is doing everything she can sort of think in the moment. She's not recounting something that happened before, but she's creating, right at that time, to try to sell the story to her parents.
LEMON: Holly, you say it is almost like the usual suspects, like --
(CROSSTALK)
HUGHES: That's exactly what it is, Don. What she's done is take little tiny bits of her reality, you know, like Jeffrey Hopkins. That is a kid she went to grade school with. He takes the stand. Now, he is supposedly the one who introduced her to Zanida (ph) that was his girlfriend at one time. And her little son, Zachary, was baby sat by her. And he gets on the stand and he says, I haven't seen her since grade school. I don't know what you're talking about. I never had a son. I never had anything.
So what we're seeing here is that she is crazy all right. Not legally insane, but crazy like a fox.
LEMON: Like a fox, yes.
HUGHES: Like you and I talked about earlier, because she takes a little bit of reality and she weaves it in. That is what will cook her goose in this trial.
LEMON: Leonard Pitts, go ahead. PITTS: I was just going to say, she has created a fantasy and has chosen 20 live in it, which is kind of pathetic. But, again, I agree with your guests. That will not save her at trial. That will, if I can improve upon the phrase, it's going to cook her goose.
(LAUGHTER)
LEMON: This is what I want to know. I want to know, Drew, when you are sitting in the courtroom and you're watching the faces when she is watching herself, what are people -- what's the expressions on people's faces?
PETRIMOULX: Well, you know, there have been times that she just sits, stone-faced, and doesn't show any emotion, kind of stars at the computer screen. She is watching the videos while they're being played on a monitor right in front of it. It is almost as if she is looking through the screen. I have spent a good amount of time watching the jurors' reactions. Early in the trial, they focused more on the judge and the lawyers. But as these videos were played and monitors right in front of them, I notice them looking up more at Casey Anthony and kind of trying to digest the two different Caseys. The one she portrays herself in court and the one that she is in videos, where she is telling her dad that there's still hope, telling her mom that there is still hope that Caylee is alive. All the while, the defense even now admits, she knew Casey was dead.
LEMON: So, Wendy, here's the thing -- as Holly says, she is crazy like a fox. So is there the possibility -- I have to ask -- maybe you can weigh in with as well, Holly --
HUGHES: OK.
LEMON: -- of an insanity defense? Is she insane?
WALSH: No.
LEMON: Is she really --
HUGHES: No.
WALSH: No, no.
(CROSSTALK)
LEMON: Go ahead, Wendy.
WALSH: No, because her kind --
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: The kind of lying that -- the definition of the insanity is, an inability to understand what they did was wrong. But her lying is all about covering her butt, because she clearly knew what she did was wrong.
LEMON: Straight ahead here on CNN, more of our special report, "The Casey Anthony Trial." What would you do if your child was missing? A prosecution witness, who met Casey after her daughter went missing, paints a picture far different from what you might expect.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do you recall about meeting Ms. Anthony on that date?
UNIDENTIFIED WITNESS: She seemed like a fun party girl, somebody that would probably get along well without group of friends.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: That's ahead in the next hour of the CNN NEWSROOM, which starts right now.
