Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

'Sissy Boy' Experiments Linked to Today; Palin's Past Becomes Public; Edward's Prosecutor Resigns; Casey Anthony Back In Court; Gates To NATO, Shape Up; Tracy Morgan Goes On A Anti-Gay Rant

Aired June 10, 2011 - 13:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: And if your choice didn't win or you just want to check out the runners-up, I'll have the links on my page at Facebook.com/SuzanneCNN.

CNN NEWSROOM continue right now with Randi Kaye who's is in for Ali Velshi. Hey, Randi.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Suzanne, have a great weekend.

Well, out of cold storage, into the daylight, more than 24,000 pages of Sarah Palin's e-mails from her abbreviated stint as governor of Alaska. CNN and other news organizations asked for those records way back when John McCain picked a running mate no one in the lower 48 had ever heard of. It took this long for the state to sort out what it had to produce and what it could legally hold back. And right this minute in Juneau, CNN's Drew Griffin is picking up six boxes of paperwork and getting ready for some speed reading. Palin told Fox News she's not worried, even though she thinks political opponents will try to exploit the information.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER GOVERNOR, ALASKA: A lot of those e-mails obviously weren't meant for public consumption. They're between staff members. They're probably between family members. So, you know, I'm sure people are going to capitalize on this opportunity to go through 25,000 e-mails and perhaps take things out of context. They'll never truly know what the context of each one of the e-mails was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And be sure to stay with us, Drew Griffin will join us live with his first armload of Palin's writings at the top of our next hour.

A new development in the federal case against former senator John Edwards. The man prosecuting him, George E.B. Holding, quit today, his resignation was expected. Holding was appointed back during the Bush administration and he was widely expected to step down after getting Edwards indicted. Edwards was indicted last week on charges of conspiracy, lying and violating campaign laws. President Obama has named Charlotte resident Thomas Walker to succeed Mr. Holding, pending confirmation hearings. And now to Orlando, Florida, where Casey Anthony is back in court one day after apparently falling ill in the courtroom. She is accused of killing her 2-year-old daughter in 2008. Nancy Grace has been following the case for our sister network, HLN, and joins us live from Florida to break down what has been going on there today.

First, Nancy, what do you think about Casey Anthony's alleged illness? I mean, do you believe she was ill? Did anyone see her tears there?

NANCY GRACE, HLN HOST: Well, Randi, number one, thank you for having me. I'm here outside the Orlando Orange County courthouse, and I'm not so sure that she was sick as much as sick of the testimony. Because, you know, one thing I noticed, Randi, and I've been watching her very carefully, when her mother Cindy Anthony, grandmother to little Caylee took the stand, she was so broken up, she put her head down, couldn't even raise her head. She went through a box of Kleenex.

Tot mom has been through one Kleenex. One, Randi, one Kleenex. But she's been crying for two days. She's used one Kleenex. All right now, that, of course, is anecdotal proof but the reason -- there was -- were a lot of people upset in court today. And that's because we were hearing testimony about Caylee's limbs, her femura, her legs, being chewed on by animals, her trunk, her torso, being dragged off and chewed on. And then at one point, the tot mom --

KAYE: How did the jury react to that?

GRACE: Randi, they, like most of the courtroom, were sitting there like they were stunned. And many of their mouths were actually agape, slightly open, as they look up at screens, there are screens to look up at the photos. And at one point they had pieced together in the morgue, as best they could, most of Caylee's bones.

And they say there are about 206 bones in the human body. All of them were never recovered, but when they saw them all assembled, and you -- that's juxtaposed against a living Caylee, the photos of her with those big brown eyes, smiling and mugging for the camera, it was almost too much for a lot of people to take.

KAYE: You know, yesterday they made a big point about the duct tape that was found on part of the remains, Nancy, that they were -- it was found really in the skull area that would have been likely around her mouth or around her chin area. How significant is that? Why is that so critical to point that out that the duct tape was there on those remains?

GRACE: You're right, Randi. Because the state has said in their opening statement that the duct tape was the murder weapon. In other words, not only was the child chloroformed, knocked out with homemade hooch knockout drug, but that she had duct tape across the mouth and nasal aperture, the nose, and therefore couldn't breathe, that was the murder weapon.

But today, we heard one state's witness say that he did not think that the duct tape was on in that manner. In fact, he believes that hair and weeds and vines had held the lower jaw of the mandible on to the head. And actually, Randi, there's a lot of discussion amongst the defense that the utility meter found the body, took the body away, then brought it back to collect the reward.

That's crazy talk, because we learned that after tropical storm Faye came in, the body rose with the water, the bones resettled, in disarray, and sediment settled down over them. There's no way someone could come in, a civilian at that, and stage the scene to look that way.

KAYE: And who would you say -- I mean, we've listened to about a couple weeks or so of testimony, who would you say is doing better at this point? Who's scoring more points? The defense or the prosecution?

GRACE: Well, I've got to tell you, right now the state is, because this is the state's show right now. They should be doing better. Now who's to say in two weeks when the defense starts, that they're not going to shine. We'll see.

KAYE: Well, what do you think defense attorney Jose Baez is going to have to pull out of his bag of tricks to try to get his client off?

GRACE: Well, one thing I can tell you, Randi, he's got to pull out more than he pulled out at a sidebar. In the middle of all this, he goes up to a sidebar with the judge, who this judge is no idiot, this judge has been around the block a couple of times. And says that he, the defense attorney, objects to photos of tot mom partying at a bar because she's dancing, dirty dancing with another woman. The judge says, Mr. Baez, have you been to the bars lately? In other words, that happens all the time. He said he was worried it made his client look like a lesbian. Hello, Baez? You got bigger problems than your client dancing with another woman at a bar.

KAYE: Nancy Grace, always a pleasure to have you on. Always a very interesting look at the trial there. Nancy, thank you.

GRACE: Thanks, Randi.

KAYE: And our sister network, HLN, is your destination for complete coverage of the Casey Anthony trial. You can watch special coverage of the trial throughout the day on HLN.

Well, our "Sound Effect" today is tough love from defense secretary Robert Gates. On his way home from a farewell visit to Afghanistan, Gates stopped by NATO headquarters and told the allies what he really thinks of them. Not all of them, but most of them, and they knew who they were already.

Gates and his predecessors have struggled to get America's partners to pony up for missions they have agreed to take on. But never, ever has a U.S. defense secretary stood up in public and warned the north Atlantic alliance that it faced a dim, if not dismal future. Listen to this from a speech to a think tank in Brussels. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GATES, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The grim reality is there is dwindling appetite and patience in the United States Congress and in the American body politics at large to expend increasingly precious funds on behalf of nations that are apparently unwilling to devote the necessary resources or make the necessary changes to be serious and capable partners in their own defense. Nations apparently willing and eager for American taxpayers to assume the growing security burden left by reductions in European defense budgets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KATE: NATO, as you know, was formed to counter the Soviet Union and its allies and it's not only survived the end of the cold war, it's grown from 16 nations to 28. As for Gates, he can speak his mind because he's retiring at the end of the month.

Comedian Tracy Morgan says he's sorry for a recent rant at a Nashville performance. Just ahead, what he said and why so many people are so angry.

And after we hear what Tracy Morgan said, well, we want you to tell us what you think about it. Join the conversation on our blog, CNN.com/Ali. And of course, you can also post on either Ali's or my Facebook and Twitter pages.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Popular actor and comedian Tracy Morgan's latest stand-up is blowing up into a major controversy and turning out to be no laughing matter, and now Morgan is apologizing. The comedian reportedly went on a vicious homophobic rant.

Morgan who is known to push the envelope for laughs was performing in front of a packed house at Nashville's Ryman auditorium. In the middle of the show, he launched into a scathing tirade about homosexuals. A photographer, Kevin Rogers, was in the audience and posted on Facebook some of the things that Morgan reportedly said.

Kevin, we're going to get to you in just a moment. First, I want to revisit some of the statements that you said Morgan made during his stand-up. To be clear, we don't, we don't have a full transcript of Morgan's remarks, But Kevin posted at one point Morgan said, quote, "there is no way a woman could love and have sexual desire for another woman. That's just a woman pretending because she hates an f'ing (ph) man."

He went on to say if his son is gay, he better come home and talk to him like a man and not - and here he mimicked gay in a high- pitched voice, or he would pull out a knife and stab that little n- word (ph) to death. Morgan goes on saying, quote, "He didn't f'ing care if he pissed off some gays. As many of you know, Morgan is on the cast of the popular NBC show, "Thirty Rock."

The irony is "Thirty Rock" received an award from G.L.A.D., the gay and lesbian alliance against deformation. Well, G.L.A.D. is calling for Morgan's management to investigate these report and issued this statement this morning. G.L.A.D.'s president says, should they prove true, we call on him to remove these vitally anti-gay remarks from his show and send a strong message that anti-gay violence is not something to joke about."

The human rights campaign also issued a statement, if these allegations are true, Tracy Morgan must immediately accept responsibility and apologize. His employer, NBC Universal, also must come forward and condemn these atrocious comments. Now, I want to go back to Kevin Rogers. Kevin, were you in the audience there, you heard Tracy Morgan directly. What was your gut reaction?

KEVIN ROGERS, NASHVILLE, TENNESSEE: I was absolutely shocked. And amazed at what I was hearing. I knew that I was going to see a comedian that does push the envelope and was expecting to hear all sorts of different probably inappropriate humor, but I didn't expect to hear an attack on the gay community.

KAYE: As I mentioned, Tracy Morgan has apologized, Kevin, so I want to read you his statement. He says, I want to apologize to my fans and the gay and lesbian community for my choice of words at my recent stand-up act in Nashville. I'm not a hateful person and don't condone any kind of violence against others. While I am an equal opportunity jokester, my friends know what is in my heart. Even in a comedy club, this clearly went too far and was not funny in any context. What is your response to that? Is that apology enough?

ROGERS: I greatly appreciate his apology. I only hope that it is actually is genuine and that's how he feels. And if that's the case and he shows my community and his fans that he truly is sorry for those remarks and takes content like that from his show, then, yes, I greatly accept his apology.

KAYE: As you said, you certainly didn't expect Morgan's act to be clean, but when he said what he said, about stabbing his son if he came home and told him that he was gay, how did that specific remark sit with you?

ROGERS: As it had gotten to the point within the rant that I was actually a little numb to everything that was being said. I was still trying to process everything and decide if there was going to be a punch line somewhere or exactly what was I hearing. So, to me, it really was just the entire thing really did hurt me. You know, of course, the violent aspect of that comment, I actually even thought at a point, well, maybe he is at least joking about that -- not that that's something to joke about, but, you know, that's pretty serious.

KAYE: And what was the audience response? Were you able to notice, were people laughing? Were they booing? What was the response?

ROGERS: As ashamed as I am for the Nashville audience, there was actually a lot of applause during that. And seemed to, with the -- there were some people that weren't laughing or clapping and seemed to be sitting there in shock, but there were also a lot of people that just really, for lack of better way of putting it, kind of hooted and hollered and --

KAYE: Did anyone leave?

ROGERS: Throughout his entire performance, there were times that we had noticed that people were leaving. You know, his performance includes a lot of comments about women and his belief on their place in the world and --

KAYE: And what was his demeanor as he started this part of his act? Did his demeanor change or was it the way it was throughout the whole show?

ROGERS: I could tell that it seemed to go from a joking demeanor to, this is a point in my show to where I'm very serious about what I'm saying. It was very forthright. There wasn't -- didn't seem to be any joking involved at that point. It was just, here's my platform.

KAYE: You posted your feelings, as I said, on FaceBook. You also tweeted about it, writing, saw Tracy Morgan in Nashville last night. Nothing but hate for the gays. That was what your tweet said. And then you also added, I was very saddened by this. What kind of response have you received online?

ROGERS: It's been kind of crazy. I've received all sorts of support from people across the United States. I've actually also received a little bit of hate, but far, far outweighed by the number of people that are supporting me and wanting to be my friend on FaceBook and just patting me on the back and saying thanks and that they really appreciated it. So it's been overall positive but I never expected on Friday that I was going to be on CNN today.

KAYE: I'm sure. And I know that before you came on CNN, you actually, according to my producer, you had to actually come out to your mom.

ROGERS: Yes. It's something that I've -- we've never really discussed and I've always had a feeling that my family knew, but I just wasn't comfortable having that discussion. And then I knew that how things happened and Nashville is a large city but it's also a very small community in a way and I knew that at some point tonight I would be receiving a phone call from my mother saying, somebody called me and saw you on CNN, what's the deal? So I thought, you know, this is a time that I'm really going to have to just step up and make that phone call and say, here, look, this is what's going to happen and whatever you hear, here's the truth. And she's very supportive and was great and I love her and my dad very much for the way they've raised me.

KAYE: Well Kevin, thank you so much for sharing not only your personal story with us but also what you say happened there in Nashville and bringing that to our attention as well. And we certainly appreciate you coming on the show and talking about it. Thank you.

ROGERS: Thank you so very much.

KAYE: And, remember, we want to know what you think about Tracy Morgan's remarks. You can join the conversation on our blog, cnn.com/ali. And you can also post on either Ali's or my FaceBook and Twitter pages. Share your comments there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Welcome back.

In today's "Your Money," Ali Velshi talks with Devra Davis from the Environmental Health Trust about the long debated issue of radiation from cell phones and how harmful it may be.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DEVRA DAVIS, PRESIDENT, ENVIRONMENTAL HEALTH TRUST: Studies conducted in Europe in 12 different laboratories have shown that the weaker signal from today's modern phones can actually be more damaging than the signals from the earlier phones because the post digital signal disrupts the membranes, weakens the blood brain barrier and that's why it can damage DNA.

ALI VELSHI, CNN: All right, one thing you point out in your book that a lot of people don't realize is that the cell phone industry is issuing warnings about this but they're in very fine print. Take a look at this one from Research In Motion which makes Blackberries. It says, "use hands-free operation if available and keep the phone at least .98 inches from your body, including the abdomen for pregnant women, and the lower abdomen of teens, when the device is turned on and connected to the wireless network."

So the industry is obviously aware of the effects. Why is the U.S. government, for instance, not getting more involved in putting these warnings out there and regulating it?

DAVIS: The government, right now, as you well know, is overwhelmed with so many things to deal with and they've taken advice that's been provided over the years by committees that have been dominated by industry. But I think those days are over and that's why I'm really glad for the attention that you're bringing to this issue and that CNN has done a very good job on.

My book, "Disconnect," makes it clear, we know enough now to take simple precautions and we don't need to stop using phones, we just need to be smarter about how we do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: And next up, the CNN listening tour. Don Lemon takes the pulse in New Hampshire, the site of CNN's first presidential debate of the season. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: CNN "In Depth" is on a listening tour. All week our crews have been on the road listening to what Americans are saying about the economy and politics. Today, our Don Lemon is taking the public pulse in New England.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: All right, let's see how people start their day in Manchester, New Hampshire. "Union Lead." All right, got a paper. Let's go to the Red Arrow diner, voted one of the top 10 diners in the country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need to clean house up there, that's what we need to do, you know.

LEMON: Out of all of the candidates in the Republican field who are declared so far, who do you like?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would have to take Santorum.

LEMON: What are you talking about over breakfast?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably graduation.

LEMON: Not politics?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not really.

LEMON: No debate?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not interested in that stuff. I can't even vote yet.

LEMON: What are you talking about over breakfast this morning here in Manchester?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Business.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Getting more business. Finding business, you know. Opportunities, you know. The economy's very stagnant right now, you know. How do you grow in a very downward, you know, economy, you know? How do you stay stable, you know. How do you keep people employed? How do you keep the lights on, you know, that's really the issues at hand.

LEMON: What do you want to hear from the folks in the debate (ph)?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About jobs and stop spending.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I want to see what they're going to do, I mean, for the young -- us younger people. I mean we're the -- what's going to be supporting the rest of, you know, the people after everyone else retires and everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the bonableandson.com (ph) am 610, WGIR, Manchester.

JUSTIN MCISAAC, PRODUCER, WGIR RADIO: Nobody else is talking in this town except for us.

LEMON: People from an outside looking in, what should they know about New Hampshire?

MCISAAC: Well, I mean, we like the voters to speak to us. I mean if you go -- if you're a politician and you're running for president and you make a big national speech, it doesn't play well in New Hampshire. I mean New Hampshire it's like to be -- we like it when the candidate will go to the pancake breakfast that maybe only 15 people will show up for. We like to see what you're made of. If you can handle stuff like that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: And Don Lemon joins us now from Manchester, New Hampshire, the site of CNN's first presidential debate.

Don, if I understand it correctly, you ran into Rick Santorum at the Manchester Airport yesterday.

LEMON: I did! And, you know, it's kind of interesting that you were talking -- I saw the segment just a couple of minutes ago about Tracy Morgan. And I asked him a question that was sort of similar to that, because some people have been saying that he's homophobic because he wants to change the Constitution in support of what he calls traditional marriage. And so I said -- I asked him, I said, you know, Mr. Santorum, some people find it contradictory because you are for small government or at least smaller or limited government, but yet you want to use the government to change the Constitution. And he responded to my question by saying -- talking about having gay friends. Take a listen, Randi, and then we can talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Do you have any gay friends?

RICK SANTORUM (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes. In fact I've had gay people work for me.

LEMON: Yes. And friends.

SANTORUM: Yes!

LEMON: You know when people say I have black friends.

SANTORUM: I -- well, I mean, yes, I have -- in fact I was with a gay friend of mine just two days ago. I mean, so, yes, I do. And they respect that I have differences of opinion on that. I talk about these things in front of them and we have conversations about it. They differ from me. But they know that I love them because they're my friends.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And he went on to say, you know, at least he talks about it with his friends. They respect his opinion. But he doesn't feel that they should have the same rights, he said. And he said he wants to preserve what he calls, he says, he said special rights for traditional marriage. Those were his words. We're going to have that entire conversation. It was about a five-minute, very interesting conversation tomorrow when we're live from here starting at 5:00.

Can I bring in a superstar? John King, come over here. Come on over here. John King is here in the house, Randi. Got here a little while ago. He had to shave on the bus. Just walk around here, right around back.

KAYE: Are you taking the show to New Hampshire or what, Don?

LEMON: Oh, look! There he is right there. We've been -- John and I have been playing Frisbee.

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This guy's working really hard.

LEMON: This has been John's lunch. I had about seven of these from the diner I went to this morning. He's been -- oh, you know you had a Twinkie, and you had a Whoopi Pie! I had four of these.

KING: Let me check your pulse. That's bad.

LEMON: That's bad.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: We'll be bringing anchoring, we're bringing our show here all weekend. John and I will be playing Frisbee until that happens.

KAYE: Well, I don't want to keep you from your Frisbee game, so I'll cut you guys loose. You can get back to it and use some of that sugar high while you can from all of those Twinkies.

LEMON: All right, Randi. Wish you were here. See you later.

KAYE: All right, well one of the first big tests for the GOP field will occur Monday, that's when CNN host the New Hampshire presidential debate. Join us as Republican hopefuls gather to size one another up and debate the issues. The New Hampshire Republican Presidential Debate, next Monday night only on CNN.

Which European country is facing fines over its care of hamsters? Find out in 60 seconds.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: It's half past the hour. Here is a look at some of the stories you may have missed.

The state of Alaska has released some 24,000 pages of emails from Sarah Palin's years as governor. The material includes emails dealing with state business, both from Palin's official accounts and her private accounts. The move is a response to Freedom of Information Act requests from CNN and other agencies.

We'll have a live report from CNN's Drew Griffin in Alaska who is picking up the documents, and we'll have that report at the top of the hour. New York Congressman Anthony Weiner insists he will not resign despite the outrage over his sexting scandal. This initially denied sending a lewd tweet to a woman in Washington state, but this week he confessed to sending similar messages to a number of women. Weiner is married to Hillary Clinton aide Huma Abedin.

NASA ANNOUNCER: Three, two, one. We have ignition and liftoff of Aquarius and the SAC-D Observatory.

KAYE: In an effort to better understand climate change, NASA launched a new satellite into orbit from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California today. Aquarius will look back at the Earth for the next three years to generate maps each month displaying sea salt movements linked to climate change. The project should also help scientists better predict El Nino and La Nina tropical climate patterns in the Pacific.

The European Court of Justice has ruled that the French government is not doing enough to protect its hamsters. The court ruled that measures implemented by France in 2008 were insufficient to prevent deterioration or destruction of breeding sites. The small, 10-inch rodents are considered pests by most French farmers and were routinely trapped or poisoned until they got official protection in the early 1990s.

Look at that little guy.

Downloaders beware -- thousands of users of the file sharing tool Bittorrent are being sued for alleged illegal downloads. Voltage Pictures has filed suits against users for downloading it's 2009 hit "The Hurt Locker" just weeks after a movie studio went off users from downloading "The Expendables." Bittorrent is a free software program that allows users to share files across the Internet, and while there are plenty of legal uses, digital piracy has left it in the crosshairs of a number of copyright holders.

Still ahead, part three of our 360 investigation, "The 'Sissy Boy' Experiment: Uncovering the Truth." Decades-old research that's still being embraced by those that think they can prevent kids from becoming gay, kids like Ryan Kendall.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RYAN KENDALL, UNDERWENT "REPARATIVE" THERAPY AS TEEN: I don't get that decade of my life back. I don't get those opportunities back. And I don't get my family back. And I will live with the damage that these individuals did for the rest of my life.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Today, our "360" investigation, "The 'Sissy Boy' Experiment: Uncovering the Truth," moves to the present.

Over the last couple of days, we've shown you what happened more than three decades ago to a little boy named Kirk Andrew Murphy. He got enrolled in a government-funded study aimed at making effeminate boys more masculine. He was just 5 years old.

It was the early 1970s and his treatment was called a success by the man who ran the study. But Kirk's siblings told us their brother was deeply damaged by the experimental treatment he received and struggled with being gay all of his life. When he was 38 years old, he hanged himself.

But the research that was done on Kirk Murphy lives on. It's still being cited by those who think they can prevent children from becoming gay. And some children like Kirk whose parents don't want them to be gay were sent to something called "reparative" therapy. Ryan Kendall was one of them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE (voice-over): Growing up, Ryan Kendall had a secret, a secret he shared in the pages of his diary. But when Ryan was just 13 his mother read his diary and discovered Ryan was gay. It was the beginning of the most painful years of his life.

KENDALL: I didn't question the world I had grown up in. I thought there was some legitimacy to this idea that I was an evil sinner who was going to burn in hell. And for years, I thought that God hated me, because I was gay.

KAYE: Ryan says his parents were determined to change their son. As Ryan tells it, his parents signed him up for what's called "reparative" therapy with the National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality, otherwise known as NARTH.

KENDALL: Every day I would hear, this is a choice. This can be fixed.

KAYE (on camera): And did you believe that?

KENDALL: I never believed that. I know I'm gay just like I know I'm short and I'm half Hispanic. And I've never thought that those facts would change. It's part of my core fundamental identity.

So the parallel would be sending me to tall camp and saying, if you try really hard, one day you can be six foot one.

KAYE (voice-over): Ryan says he was treated by Joseph Nicolosi, a clinical psychologist who today is still associated with NARTH.

KENDALL: The constant refrain was the religious one, that this is an abomination, that this is a sickness that can be fixed, that you don't want to be an effeminate man, so you want to butch up. That this is something that makes God cry, that this is something your family doesn't want for you.

KAYE: At his office outside Los Angeles, we asked Nicolosi if he remembered treating Ryan Kendall about 14 years ago.

JOSEPH NICOLOSI, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I'm not familiar with the name at all. KAYE (on camera): His parents have provided bills from your office. There have been checks written to your office but no record?

NICOLOSI: No.

KAYE: He says that your therapy was quite harmful. He said that he was told one percent of the world is gay.

NICOLOSI: Two percent.

KAYE: He said that you told him to "butch up," quote unquote.

NICOLOSI: Never, that's not our language.

KAYE: And that, when he was sobbing, he was told that it was wrong to be a homosexual.

NICOLOSI: Absolutely not. Absolutely. We do not do that kind of work.

When a client begins a session, how can I help you? What do you want to work on today? I have to be seen as an ally, a helper, a good father figure, a good male image. This is what's curative. I have to be the man who accepts you for who you are.

KAYE: When somebody says, people like yourself, others are trying to get the gay out of people?

NICOLOSI: That's a terrible way of phrasing it. I would rather say we are trying to bring out the heterosexuality in you.

KENDALL: I still struggle.

KAYE (voice-over): At 14, Ryan says he had no interest in changing or continuing therapy with Nicolosi.

(on camera): Did Nicolosi understand that you were there against your will?

KENDALL: Absolutely. Nicolosi knew that I wasn't a willing participant, but this is what he does. He takes in gay kids whose families want them to be straight, and he goes to work on them.

KAYE (voice-over): Nicolosi told us that's not true.

(on camera): And you put the child's interests before the parent's even?

NICOLOSI: Absolutely. Absolutely.

KAYE: He says he's kept hundreds of children from growing up to be gay. One of the researchers he points to is this man, George Rekers, a big believer that homosexuality can be prevented. Nicolosi even cites Rekers' work in his book, "A Parent's Guide to Preventing Homosexuality". He uses Rekers' therapy with "a feminine boy" as evidence that therapy can keep children from growing up to be gay. He writes that "growth into a heterosexual identity is indeed possible."

NICOLOSI: George Rekers has done pioneering work in this for many, many years.

KAYE: What Nicolosi didn't know until our interview was that the young boy he cites as a success story, whose real name is Kirk Murphy, struggled with being gay his entire life. He committed suicide in 2003, when he was 38 years old.

Kirk's family says the torment brought on by the therapy is why Kirk took his own life. But Rekers argues there's no way to prove his therapy had anything to do with Kirk's suicide decades later.

NICOLOSI: George Rekers has done a lot of research. He's done a lifetime of research. If there is somebody who committed suicide, that's tragic. But we have to look at the body of literature. That's what we're relying on.

KAYE: Nicolosi claims science supports the idea that people are not born gay.

NICOLOSI: We say that homosexuality is an adaptation to an emotional breach with the parents, primarily parents of the same sex, or for the boy, it's an emotional breach, a failure to bond with the father.

WAYNE BESEN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, TRUTH WINS OUT: Dr. Joseph Nicolosi simply makes things up when it comes to science.

KAYE: Wayne Besen is an advocate for gay equality with the organization Truth Wins Out.

BESEN: He says a person who is a gay man is a distant father and isn't good at sports. I, for example, was an all-city basketball player in high school and am incredibly close to my father.

KAYE: The American Psychiatric Association opposes reparative therapy. The group's position statement says "the potential risks are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior."

Nicolosi says his therapy isn't harmful, and he only treats people who want to change.

(on camera): Does it concern you that there may be a psychological impact on some of these kids?

NICOLOSI: Well, there's much more push from society to be not homosexual, not to be gay. That's for sure.

KAYE: You're saying they feel more pressure out there than in here?

NICOLOSI: Absolutely. BESEN: Every day I deal with people who have been harmed, who are survivors of these creeps that try to say they can pray away the gay and change people from gay to straight. And I can tell you, it's incredibly destructive. It harms people in a very deep level.

RYAN: Ryan is now back in school. He says the only way he was able to escape therapy with Nicolosi was by surrendering himself to the Department of Human Services in Colorado Springs and legally separating from his family.

But he'd been through more than a year of therapy by then and had already slipped into a deep depression and thoughts of suicide.

KENDALL: What they did hurt me. It tore apart my family. It led me to periods of homelessness, to drug abuse, to spending a decade of my life wanting to kill myself. And it led to so much pain and struggle.

And I want them to know that what they do hurts people. It hurts children. It has no basis in fact. And they need to stop.

NICOLOSI: This is unfair to have these accusations put to me like this. I'm not familiar with the case. All I can do is speak in generalities, and we would never do that to any client.

KENDALL: What happened to me is not something that goes away. I don't get that decade of my life back. I don't get those opportunities back. And I don't get my family back. And I will live with the damage that these individuals did for the rest of my life.

KAYE: Now 28, Ryan has plans to become a lawyer one day, to advocate for children because, he says, no one was there to stand up for him.

Randi Kaye, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: And you can tune in tonight to "AC 360" for continued coverage of "The Sissy Boy Experiments."

NATO has been in Libya for four months now. But at what length will it go to protect civilians? Some say forces are trying to go after the leader himself. Hear the official response on the other side of the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: The chaos in Libya. In the foreground, everyday traffic. But in the background you're seeing NATO's attacks on Moammar Gadhafi's compound. Some say NATO is not just targeting his camp. Forces are going after the Libyan leader himself. A senior NATO official told CNN on condition of anonymity that Gadhafi is, quote, "a legitimate target" under NATO's mandate to use all necessary measures except ground invasion to protect civilians. But a NATO spokesman refused to confirm that, saying that NATO is not targeting individuals.

Three months since an earthquake triggered its nuclear disaster, Japan is adding four new areas to its radiation zones. Those are areas with unsafe exposure. Three of the four zones are in the Riozemachi (ph) area about 31 miles from the Fukushima Daiichi plant where several reactors were damaged, you may recall. The fourth area In Manamisoma (ph), about 21 miles from the plant. UPI reports some of these locations have six times the levels of radiation considered safe for humans.

The camera flashes were in a frenzy yesterday in London. That's because the Duchess of Cambridge -- that's Prince William's new wife -- made her first public official outing. It was at a gala in Kensington palace that benefited the group Absolute Return for Kids. People.com reports Kate Middleton wore a Jenny Pacum original with crystal beads and silk tulle. The event raised $28 million for the nonprofit, which helps kids in Africa, Romania and the United Kingdom.

Up next, we will tell you how an electronic mirror could look inside -- into our bodies and tell us that they have more than how we look. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: If my next guest has his way, one day checking yourself out in a mirror could be almost as important as a doctor's visit. Ming Verpo invented a mirror that can track your heart rate using nothing more than a laptop and Web cam. You don't need to touch it or connect wires up to your body even.

The electrical and medical engineering graduate student at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology joins me now from Cambridge. Ming, thanks for coming on the show. Tell me about your mirror. How is it that you don't have to touch it, and it can still track your health?

MING-ZHER POH, ENGINEERING GRADUATE STUDENT, M.I.T: Thanks for inviting me. Well, this mirror is special, because it not only reflects your physical appearance, but it also can reflect your health indicators.

And the principle behind this is really just to use light to measure volumetric changes in your blood vessels. So you can think of the heart as a muscle that pumps blood. Every time it beats, it introduces more blood into your vessels, which causes them to expand slightly. And blood absorbs a lot of light, so that the additional volume of blood causes more light to be absorbed and less light to be reflected off.

So, using a simple camera we can actually pick up the changes in light intensity that occur every time that your heart beats.

KAYE: And how accurate is it?

POH: Oh, it is actually quite accurate if you're sitting still. It's within three beats per minute compared to a commercial device. KAYE: And do you think that one day it might be able test other vital signs?

POH: Yes, we have worked on other vital signs. Right now, we know we can also measure the breathing rate and something called heart rate variability, which is a index of your autonomic nervous system. And we are also exploring other parameters such as oxygen saturation and blood pressure.

KAYE: Ming, it sounds great. I'm fascinated by it, and we are glad that we were able to have you on the show to talk just a little bit about it. Thank you so much. Good luck with it.

POH: Thanks for inviting me. Thank you.

KAYE: And for much more about the medical mirror, you can check out our blog at CNN.com/ali. And don't forget to tune in tomorrow -- actually Monday. We are off tomorrow. Hope you guys are off, too. But as always, same "Big I" time, same "Big I" channel on Monday.

Disgraced former Republican representative Mark Foley suggests that embattled representative Anthony Weiner might be better served if he left Congress. Dana Bash joins us with an update us on the Weiner saga after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: And it is time now for a CNN political update. Our senior congressional correspondent Dana Bash joins me from Capitol Hill.

Hi there, Dana. What is the latest this hour of the Anthony Weiner story?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Randi, we have been reporting over the past couple of days that Anthony Weiner has been on kind of an apology tour, making phone calls to some of his colleagues that he is sorry.

Well, now that those apologies are going to the people who live in his New York building. CNN was invited into his building by a neighbor of Weiner's to show us a note he posted to the fellow tenants in the building. We want to put it up and read it to you. He said, "Please forgive me for the inconvenience outside of all of the press outside. I'm sorry for all that I have done that has now impacted you. Hopefully it will soon pass. Anthony." And that is the letter that he wrote to his tenants -- to his fellow tenants.

Meanwhile, Weiner is getting some unsolicited advice from a disgraced former congressman, Randi. That is Republican -- former Republican Congresman Mark Foley, who left Congress in 2006 after it became known that he was sending sexually explicit e-mails to teenaged pages. What he is saying is that based on his experience, he thinks that that Weiner should leave Congress. And what Foley said is he's not going to get better going back into that building and hope people give him a pass -- that building meaning this building, the United States Congress where people are not happy with him. KAYE: And just very quickly, Dana, what is the latest on Newt Gingrich now that half his team, or much of the team has disappeared?

BASH: He is vowing that he is going to, quote, "do whatever it takes to stay in the race." Despite that there are a lot of questions, very loud questions, about whether he can survive his run for president based on the fact that his structure that his senior aides and the headquarters in key states are gone, this mass exodus.

So, he put a posting on the Facebook page to try to make clear, he is in fact still staying in the race. He said that he has been in public life for 40 years, knows the rigors of the campaign and will endure them. And Randi, we should note that he is still saying that he will participate in the debate that CNN is cohosting in New Hampshire on Monday, which will be moderated by our own John King. Randi.

KAYE: All right.

Dana Bash, on Capitol Hill.

Dana, thank you.

BASH: Thanks.