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Verdict Reached in Casey Anthony Trial; Anthony Cleared in Daughter's Death
Aired July 05, 2011 - 14:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN ANCHOR: Well, listen, we're coming on 2:00. And I just want to bring everybody up-to-date if you're just joining us.
There has been a verdict reached in the Casey Anthony trial. We're expecting the verdict to be read beginning at 2:15. Casey Anthony stands charged in the death of her 2 1/2-year-old daughter Caylee Anthony. And the jury took about 11 hours to come to a decision on all seven charges. Those charges including capital murder -- that could get the death penalty -- aggravated child abuse, aggravated manslaughter, manslaughter of a child, and lying to police. It took them just about a day.
They got the case yesterday, after prosecutors had a chance to finish their closing rebuttal arguments. The judge gave them instructions and sent them on their way.
This is a group that wasn't even allowed to talk about this case. So they have been sequestered and together for more than six weeks. They were not allowed to talk about anything related to the case until the judge gave them the OK and said go ahead.
So, Casey Anthony, in that courtroom. Her mom, her father also in that courtroom. The tension must be just enormous inside there.
Holly, let's talk about, you know, when we -- and actually, let me just kind of go to David Mattingly, who is there for us.
Because, David, when you think about the points that were made, when you think about how prosecutors ended this by saying who stood to gain, whose life would return back to normal? And they talked about -- they said Cindy was a loving, doting grandmother. They read George Anthony's suicide letter, and you hear how even his handwriting had started to deteriorate because he was so traumatized by not only what had happened to his granddaughter but what had happened to his family as well. And then there's Casey Anthony in all of this, poignant testimony there that certainly gave the jury things to think about.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. This family, regardless of how this turns out, has literally -- and we can say it here -- has gone through hell. They have been used both as a sword and as a shield during this trial. Their actions have been questioned. Their motivations have been questioned. Every single --
(CROSSTALK) FEYERICK: David, Jose Baez there, Casey Anthony's lawyer, walking into the courtroom. He certainly mounted the best defense that he could. We'll see what the outcome of those efforts are.
But go ahead. Continue, David.
MATTINGLY: Right. Well, talking about Jose Baez, remember after this trial is over, the judge has the option of pursuing contempt charges against him from problems they had earlier in this trial. The prosecution complained that he was putting witnesses up on the stand that weren't filling out the obligatory reports telling the prosecutors what they were going to be testifying about.
They were supposed to follow this rule. He broke the rule more than once, according to the judge, and he found it to be willful. So he has some problems even after this trial for himself.
But again, about the Anthony family, we have heard them -- about used as evidence that they were a loving family, we've heard them used as evidence that their behavior, potential sexual abuse, things like that, as contributing factors to potential behavior. We have seen them torn apart in so many different ways, their personal lives absolutely dissected.
And then Cindy Anthony, the mother, possibly committing perjury as she was on the stand, talking about that she was the one who was searching for information about chloroform and not her daughter that day, when experts later came back up on the stand for the prosecution and said she said she was definitely, definitely at work that day. So this family both taking their lumps, just getting torn apart. They're still fighting for their daughter until the very end.
FEYERICK: Here is Casey Anthony walking back into the courtroom. Casey Anthony is walking back into the courtroom now. Pictures we had seen of her earlier, apparently. She had left for a little while, but here she is. She's coming in.
You look at her demeanor, she's talking to one of her lawyers there, she's shaking her head.
I am so stunned, really, by the transformation in this young lady from the beginning of this -- all of this, when they first found Caylee to right now. I mean, even what has happened in the last three years, she was so vibrant and energetic, and she really seemed to convey this energy and this thirst or love of life. And even the pictures that you see of her as a mother towards this little girl, clearly the stories about what kind of a mother she was, a little different.
But now she's sitting here. Now she knows that everything that has happened, the dozens and dozens of hours of testimony, this is when it comes down to the final.
Richard Herman is joining us, one of our lawyers, also, to weigh in on this whole story. Richard, I have been speaking with Holly Hughes and Diane Dimond, David Mattingly, who's outside of the courthouse. Casey Anthony -- this is it.
You have been in this position as a defense lawyer. Describe it to me. It has got to be excruciating.
RICHARD HERMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I cannot describe it. Deb, cannot -- I stand up next to these men that are powerful men, and supreme businessmen, controlling hundreds of employees and businesses, and they are quivering in their pants standing there.
When that jury comes in, and you know it's coming down, and your life is at stake, you can't get a breath in you. Your heart is punching through your chest. And I will tell you the truth, and I'm sure the other lawyers will tell you this if they really take the verdicts. When I stand there and take a verdict, the same thing is happening to me.
It is absolutely -- it's a surreal experience. And this is going to be bad for her. This is absolutely going to be murder.
And she's got to know it. Somebody had to have told her if they came back this quick it's going to be murder. And she's got to know it. I mean, someone had to have told her if they came back this quick, it's going to be murder.
No way out for her.
FEYERICK: Richard, do you see a series of appeals coming down? Do you see -- I mean, clearly, on some levels -- and I don't mean to be cavalier about this, but on some levels, the worst thing is waiting for the unknown, waiting to find out what happens.
Once at least the verdict is read, perhaps in a way it just -- it releases just the agony of the unknown. Is that fair?
HERMAN: I don't think that's fair in this case, Deb. This is going to be a death penalty verdict.
I mean, you know, Baez -- this is the payback for Baez. This is why there have been so many defense attorneys critical of his performance and his all-or-nothing approach in that opening statement, which this is an absolute rejection by the jury of the tactics of Baez, and they're taking it out on the client.
FEYERICK: Again, we have to wait for the verdict. We have to wait for the verdict. We have to see what it is. And clearly, how they come down.
Holly Hughes, every possibility verdict if the jury does not feel that they want to move towards death on this given the age of Casey Anthony? What do you think?
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Absolutely. We can sit here as pundits, and Richard and I have both tried these cases. We've been in these courtrooms, we've had these juries. We've picked them ourselves.
And as much as we want to think that we know what they're thinking, we don't. You have got 12 strangers in a room, and you are asking them to make -- not right now, because, of course, they're not supposed to be considering sentencing. They're just working on guilt or innocence.
But they know if they return a first degree, ultimately they are going to be asked, should a human being live or die? And think about the pressure.
I mean, I talk about our jury system like this, and I say go into any random place, the airport, the mall. Just pick 12 folks at random.
FEYERICK: Right.
HUGHES: Put them in a room and see if they agree on what to have for lunch unanimously. And now you are taking those 12 citizens, and you're saying, make a decision if a young woman lives or dies. So we don't know what they're going to do.
FEYERICK: And it's a recommendation.
HUGHES: Absolutely. That's right.
FEYERICK: The jury can recommend the death penalty. It does not mean --
HUGHES: And it doesn't have to be unanimous either.
FEYERICK: And it doesn't have to be unanimous. So they have to recommend. It's a recommendation. It's clearly the most serious charges.
Diane Diamond, who's been waiting there patiently on the phone. You are writing an article for "The Daily Beast." Tell me what it is -- what is it that you found? What has been your "ah-ha" or your "Oh my God" moment?
DIANE DIMOND, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, "NEWSWEEK," "THE DAILY BEAST": Well, as a mother, and as a mother of a daughter, my "ah-ha" moment came before the trial ever started. She took 31 days to tell anybody her child was missing, and that child is only 2 years old? That, I think, is an enormous hurdle for the members of this jury.
It wasn't Casey Anthony who called the police about this. It was Casey Anthony's mother after Casey Anthony's mother tracked her down at her boyfriend's house.
So there are seven women here, five men. I think five of them have children, some of them are grandparents. At least two or three of them are very religious people.
There are nurses, there are others in the public health industries that I think that is going to resonate with them more than any forensics, more than any hair banding analysis, more than the trunk air analysis that smelled, the human decomp in this young woman's car trunk. She didn't report her child missing for 31 days.
FEYERICK: Right. And what's interesting is I think that the prosecution commented on that, because her Facebook log-in was called "Timer 55," and the argument they made was that Casey Anthony knew how many days she had to be able to stonewall her mother. And it was 55 days from the moment that she allegedly knew that Caylee Anthony was missing to the time of Caylee's birthday -- 55 days.
And prosecutors made the point to say she did everything she could. She said, oh, I've got a wealthy boyfriend, he's got a daughter who's Caylee's age, don't bother me, I'm getting my life together. So, all of these things a factor.
I just want to recap who we have got. We're speaking right now with our distinguished panel: Holly Hughes, who's joining me; Diane Dimond; David Mattingly is on the ground; Richard Herman, also a criminal defense lawyer; and Jeffrey Toobin, who's joining us as well.
And Jeffrey, it's interesting, the dynamic of the jury. What is, from your experience, the kind of jury you want in this case? Is it a sympathetic jury? It is a completely objective jury? Is it an unemotional jury?
What do you want?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: Well, the conventional wisdom about what prosecutors want in a jury is they want stable, serious people. They want people who are rooted in the community, people who have held jobs for a long time, people who have been married for a long time, people who have children, who have grandchildren.
Defense wants free thinkers. They want teachers. They want social workers. They want people who are perhaps more highly educated.
I mean, this certainly seems like a good prosecution jury by those standards. But, you know, I just think that it's important to recognize how wrong we can be about these stereotypes.
I mean, just to give you one example of a piece of trial lawyer folklore, one of the classic pieces of folklore is that juries deliberate one day for each week of testimony. So, if it's an eight- week trial, you can expect eight days of deliberations. Here, we had a more than an eight-week trial, and we're going to have essentially two days of deliberations.
I mean, the jury obviously made up their minds very quickly here, and we're going to hear in about three minutes, according to my watch.
FEYERICK: Well, it's interesting, because you say normally it's a day of deliberation for every week. In this particular case, it's almost a little over an hour for every charge. So, looking at that. And when we go -- Richard, the state has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt murder, but they don't have to agree on whether it was premeditated, they don't have to agree on technically the type of murder.
Does that work in Casey Anthony's favor or does that work against her? Richard?
HERMAN: It works against her. Jeff Ashton said it yesterday, and this is what any jurors who were on the fence fell into today with their vote.
You can hold her for murder if you believe she accidentally overdosed Caylee. An accidental overdose would equal felony murder and get you to murder.
And that's what happened here. And I don't care what the makeup is of a jury. This was an emotionally charged case. You've heard lawyers argue left and right. It raises passions everywhere you go. I think Holly will agree with me also, and Jeffrey.
This jury went with their emotions on this case. They took the evidence. They bought into every argument by the prosecution. And the defense was -- there really was no defense. You make these promises in an opening to the jury, and you don't live up to them, this is what happens.
FEYERICK: And that's obviously the danger.
We are less -- everyone, we are less than two minutes away technically from when that jury is expected to walk back into that room to deliver the verdict. This has been more than three years coming.
Little Caylee Anthony, her birthday, just in the beginning of August. And basically everyone will know, including her parents, what role if any her mother had in that particular death.
We're waiting for the verdict to come down.
And David Mattingly, who is out there, you know -- obviously, after this happens, there's going to be a mad rush for jurors. What is the expectation? Are there chase crews set up all over the place?
Hold on one second, David. One second.
OK. They are standing, and that means most likely the judge is here.
So, go ahead, Dave.
MATTINGLY: Well, they have had a room set up here at the courthouse for those jurors for days now. We may be finding out very soon what they're going to do.
FEYERICK: Yes. OK. So the judge -- let's take a listen. Let's listen for a second.
Here we go.
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, ORANGE COUNTY CIRCUIT COURT: Both sides ready to proceed? It's been brought to my attention that the jury has reached a verdict.
State?
LINDA DRANE BURDICK, PROSECUTOR: The state is ready to proceed, Your Honor.
PERRY: Defense?
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: The defense is ready.
PERRY: To those in the gallery, please do not express any signs of approval or disapproval upon the reading of the verdict.
Let's return the jury.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All rise for the jury.
Please be seated.
FEYERICK: All right. And just looking at it, those are the lead detectives on the case.
PERRY: The state recognizes the presence of the jury?
BURDICK: We do, Your Honor.
PERRY: And does the defense?
BAEZ: Yes, sir. We do.
PERRY: Good afternoon, Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury.
Have you reached a verdict?
UNIDENTIFIED GROUP: Yes, sir.
PERRY: Would you hand the verdict form to the court deputy, please?
Will the defendant rise, along with counsel?
Madam Clerk, you may publish the verdicts.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Judge.
"In the Circuit Court for the Ninth Judicial Circuit in and for Orange County Florida, the State of Florida Versus Casey Marie Anthony, as to case number 2008DF15606-0, as to the charge of first- degree murder, verdict as to count one, we, the jury, find the defendant not guilty, so say we all, dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, on this 5th day of July, 2001," signed "Foreperson."
"As to the charge of aggravated child abuse, verdict as to count two, we, the jury, find the defendant not guilty, so say we all, dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this fifth day of July, 2011," signed "Foreperson."
"As to the charge of aggravated manslaughter of a child, verdict as to count three, we, the jury, find the defendant not guilty, so say we all, dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011." Signed, "Foreperson."
"As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count four, we, the jury, find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment, so say we all, dated Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011," signed, "Foreperson."
"As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count five, we, the jury, find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, as charged in the indictment, so say we all, dated, Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011," signed, "Foreperson."
"As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count six, we, the jury, find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment, so say we all, dated Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011," signed "Foreperson."
"As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, the verdict as to count seven, we, the jury, find the defendant guilty as providing false information to the law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment, so say we all, dated Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011," signed, "Foreperson."
PERRY: Madam Clerk, you may poll the jury.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number one, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were they all your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number two, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number three, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number four, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number five, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number six, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number seven, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number eight, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Verdict number nine, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 10, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Juror number 11, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And juror number 12, were these your true and correct verdicts?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
PERRY: OK.
Will counsel and the defendant approach the podium? Not all the counsel, but just a representative sample.
Casey Marie Anthony, a jury of your peers have found you not guilty as to the charge contained in count one of the indictment, murder in the first degree.
At this time I will adjudge you to be not guilty.
As to count two, the crime of aggravated child abuse, a jury of your peers have found you to be not guilty. The court will adjudge you to be not guilty of the crime contained in count two.
As to count three, aggravated manslaughter of a child, a jury of your peers have found you not guilty. I will adjudge you to be not guilty of that count.
As to counts four, five, six, and seven, providing false information to a law enforcement officer, I will adjudge you to be guilty of those counts and order that you be fingerprinted here in open court at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
PERRY: It has to be in open court.
Mr. Baez, Mr. Mason, will you be prepared to go to sentencing Thursday or Friday of this week?
CHENEY MASON, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Thursday (INAUDIBLE).
PERRY: OK. Then we'll set sentencing Thursday at 9:00 a.m. in this courtroom.
OK. Are there any other matters that we need to take up at this time?
BURDICK: Nothing from the state, Your Honor.
Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, on behalf of the citizens of the Ninth Judicial Circuit, I would like to express my sincere thanks and appreciation for your service as jurors.
You are all residents of Pinellas County, Florida. And we came over there, met with you, questioned you, and took you away from your families for a very extended period of time. And for that I say thank you.
As I told you when I first spoke with you, in talking about jury service, that one of the most important obligations of citizenship, in my opinion, was service on a jury. I told you it was very important that if we believe in that constitutional provision, that provision that provides a right to trial by jury, that it was important for people to serve no matter what that sacrifice would be.
As you can tell by some of the questions that some folks answered, a lot of people did not want to serve. And you knew it would be a hardship, and you were candid with the attorneys. You answered all their questions and you served, and for that we thank you.
I would also wish to advise you of some very special privileges enjoyed by jurors. No juror can ever be required to talk about the discussions that occurred in the jury room except by court order.
For many centuries, our society has relied upon juries for consideration of difficult cases. We have recognized for hundreds of years that a jury's deliberations, discussions and vote shall remain their private affairs as long as they wish it.
Therefore, the law gives you a unique privilege not to speak about your jury work, although you are at liberty to speak with anyone about your deliberations. You also are at liberty to refuse to speak with anyone.
A request to discuss either your verdict or your deliberations may come from those who are simply curious or from those who might seek to find fault with you. From the media, from attorneys, or elsewhere, it will be up to you to decide whether to preserve your privacy as jurors.
Again, thank you. You are here by discharged. And I will see you shortly back in the jury room.
Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All rise for the jurors.
PERRY: You may be seated. This court is in recess.
FEYERICK: And there you see Casey Anthony.
Recap -- she was found not guilty of first-degree murder, not guilty of aggravated manslaughter, not guilty of aggravated child abuse.
She is there hugging her attorneys. Her mother and father were in the courtroom. There was no reaction.
They didn't hug each other. They didn't hold each other. They got up and they walked out just moments after the verdict was read.
Casey Anthony found not guilty on the most serious charges of murder, manslaughter and child abuse. She was found guilty of lying to investigators. She will be serving time for those lies, but that is a misdemeanor and it is a much shorter sentence.
Just watch the reaction there of Casey Anthony.
Jose Baez got a lot of criticism, saying he did not try this case well, but he got the outcome, the best possible outcome, it would seem, from the perspective of Casey Anthony.
I want to go to our legal panel. We have a good one. We are working with Jeff Toobin, Holly Hughes, Richard Herman, Debra Opri.
First of all, Jeff, there in New York, looking at her here, what is your reaction to this verdict?
TOOBIN: She won and the government lost. I mean, those four counts you mentioned that she was convicted of, as you say, are misdemeanors.
In most courtrooms in the United States, if you're convicted of misdemeanors, you do not get a prison sentence. So the fact that the sentencing is just coming on Thursday, two days from now, suggests that there will not be much to this sentencing.
This is a woman who was looking at the possibility of the death penalty. They sought the death penalty against this woman, and she got convicted of four misdemeanors. This is an historic rejection of the prosecution's case, an enormous victory, for better or worse, for Casey Anthony.
FEYERICK: So, Jeff, just so I'm clear, are you telling us that, basically, Casey Anthony could serve no prison time?
TOOBIN: Oh, I would think -- that would certainly be my expectation. I mean, if she were convicted of four misdemeanors in New York State, she would never get any jail time. She would get probation.
There are almost no prisoners in New York State, which is the state that I know best, who are in prison for misdemeanors. We're sort of learning on the fly here. If there are others who know better about Florida law, I hope they jump in, but misdemeanors are not prison cases in my experience in New York and in most other states, and I would expect she would not get any jail time unless we hear from others.
FEYERICK: Plus, not only that, but she's also -- she could also -- she served three years.
TOOBIN: I mean, she won't get any time. In three years -- I don't know why her lawyers didn't make a motion to get her out today.
FEYERICK: Right, interesting.
Debra Opri, I want to bring you in as well. What was your expectation and what is your reaction?
DEBRA OPRI, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I feel like I was reliving the Michael Jackson trial, because I was going to say she was going to get acquitted. Casey Anthony, I thought the evidence was overwhelming.
But there's two things that stuck in my mind. The jury was tired. I don't think they're going to have a consensus that the state was able to prove its case of murder against Casey. And I think at some point in time the jury might have turned on Jeff Ashton. He came across, laughing and arrogant, and I think that went against him.
And I think Mr. Baez, obviously, he got the jury to believe in him and his client. It was an astounding day. But our system works, and I'm very proud as a defense attorney that under the Constitution, you are innocent unless proven guilty.
Casey Anthony should have been released today. So, I'm surprised the attorneys did not make an immediate motion for her. FEYERICK: Richard Herman, you're sitting out there in Las Vegas. You thought that she was going down on all counts. In fact, she did not. She was found not guilty. What's your reaction?
HERMAN: Well, I just passed out. I am reviving myself.
But like I was saying, Baez just did a wonderful job in his defense of her.
Now, I have to give my apologies. I was wrong. Baez was right. This was a win. He brought his case with passion. I didn't always agree with his tactics, kind of went against the rule of the thumb. But what is the rule of thumb in a defense of a murder case?
Look, this is an outstanding victory. The jury, I agree with Debra. First of all, I agree with Debra and Jeff. Why didn't they make an application for release right now? I mean, she's going to get time served, has to, on Thursday.
Number two, I agree with Debra. If you look at the opening of Baez, if you watch that again on video, all you see in the background is this Ashton shaking his head, no, no, no. I mean, we tell our clients, make no gestures like that, don't do that. And here is, the prosecutor, so animated, so juvenile throughout the entire trial.
I am convinced some jurors fell on that. The medical examiner, this wonderful Dr. G, what was the cause of death, Dr. G? I don't know, there is no cause of death. This is a first-degree murder case.
FEYERICK: Right. But again, doesn't it go back to that, everyone? I mean, doesn't it go back to the fact that what Jose Baez said is: do not look at this case on emotion, look at this case on evidence. You don't have a cause of death. What you have is substantial circumstantial evidence, but nothing that ever linked Casey directly to the event as it happened, regardless of her lies, regardless of the tales that she spun.
Holly Hughes, you gasped -- you gasped when you heard the verdict.
HUGHES: I'm stunned. I'm absolutely stunned. I got to tell you. You know, I mean, Richard just said, well, I was wrong about Baez. I'm not sure that we were wrong about Baez, maybe the jury just felt sorry for her because he thought he was bad. Who knows?
But it's what we said. (INAUDIBLE) verdict came. No matter what our predictions, no matter how great us talking as we think we are -- we don't know. We don't know what's going on. Everybody said, oh, it's perfect timing for the state. They did such a strong close, this is a great states jury. And yet, we all got it wrong.
So, once again, Debra is right, this system works. It's the best system in the world. It's what we have.
FEYERICK: Debra Opri, let me ask you -- and, Debra, you said, Deb, you said that basically, you know, that it wasn't there. What in your opinion made you believe that there was no way a jury was going to find her guilty of this murder when circumstantially it seemed like such a strong case?
OPRI: Well, I see the headlines and I want to steal what I'm going to say right now. This became the leap of faith case for both sides. It was the leap of faith case for the prosecution to basically say: go in that middle area and I'll help you complete the picture. It was the defense saying with Mr. Mason, I believe, it was brilliant with those charts.
The leap of faith saying you cannot have that leap of faith of guilt because of the reasonable doubt. The reasonable doubt cannot get you on that leap of faith case.
So, this will be the leap of faith case where reasonable doubt, this will be taught in school, and -- Mr. Baez, I applaud you, you did an outstanding job because you threw the kitchen sink against that wall and something stuck. Something stuck.
FEYERICK: We're looking at live pictures outside the courthouse there. It is by all accounts quiet and rather subdued, I'm sure a huge percentage of those folks are actually --
OPRI: They're stunned.
FEYERICK: And this is it right now.
But, David Mattingly, you have been out there for three weeks. You have spoken to a lot of people. You have seen -- I listen to people screaming out and saying things about Casey Anthony. What is your sense there? Describe the mood right now.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I can tell you that building up to this, one of the things that drove people to this trial in such large numbers, and kept their attention so wrapped, so closely for the past few weeks was the fact that they wanted to see justice for this little girl, little Caylee Anthony, who died mysteriously, who was missing, her body found decomposed in the Florida swamp. They wanted to see justice for this little girl.
And now with this verdict, her mother is found not guilty, there is no justice for Caylee. Now that is something that's going to be leaving a lot of people hanging. I don't think you're going to see interest in this case disappearing anytime soon.
The only person more vindicated than Casey Anthony right now by this verdict is her attorney, Jose Baez. He was the target of so much criticism and so much armchair quarterbacking over the last few weeks, accused of setting the bar too high, of creating a different scenario of what happened here that he couldn't prove.
But in the end, he went before that jury in the most powerful statement he made as he was going through every single of the big witnesses the prosecution had, pointing out the holes in their testimony and questioning their motivation, questioning their tactics, questioning their methodology, everything, and he pointed to the jury and said, this is where reasonable doubt lives.
FEYERICK: And that reasonable doubt --
(CROSSTALK)
MATTINGLY: The fact that the jury came back with this verdict --
FEYERICK: Yes.
MATTINGLY: -- that tells us -- that tells us that that jury went in there unconvinced and not convinced by the circumstantial case that the prosecution had presented them. The last time we saw a big circumstantial case like this was Scott Peterson. That turned out way differently. People came out and they're hating him. This jury looked at the facts and apparently found the facts wanton.
FEYERICK: OK. Now, Holly Hughes is sitting with me here. When you think about the evidence, what David just said, that the evidence came up short, all right? You did not think so initially?
HUGHES: No.
FEYERICK: But why? Then what -- explain what happened that the jury looked at this and said, nice try, but no game.
HUGHES: Well, here's the bottom line. It's what we said -- we never know what they are thinking. I still think it's a good circumstantial evidence case. I'm not going to back up because, all of a sudden, they did not agree with me. I mean, I said what I thought the whole time. I still think it's good enough. I still think it could have been a conviction.
But what we need to do is listen to these jurors be interviewed. And maybe they will say, you know, the science didn't convince me. Or as someone pointed out, I think it was Richard, maybe Jeff Ashton's attitude turned him off -- maybe they felt sorry because they didn't think Joes knew what he was doing. Who know?
Maybe they had a kindergarten teacher who looked like Casey Anthony and they felt sorry for her.
FEYERICK: OK.
HUGHES: Until we hear the reasoning, we're not going to not know. But they clearly thought the evidence was not enough.
FEYERICK: I want to watch. This is Casey Anthony right now. The verdict is being read.
I mean, look at that. Look at the effort to stay controlled.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We the jury find the defendant not guilty -- so say we all, dated in Orlando, Orange County Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011, signed foreperson.
As to the charge of aggravated manslaughter of a child, verdict as to count three, we the jury find the defendant not guilty -- so say we all, dated in Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th of July, 2011, signed foreperson.
As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement officer, verdict as to count four, we the jury find the defendant guilty of providing false information to a law enforcement officer as charged in the indictment -- so say we all, dated in Orlando, Orange County, Florida, this 5th day of July, 2011, signed foreperson.
As to the charge of providing false information to a law enforcement --
FEYERICK: And there's another -- we just want to show you another picture in a different room, and that is the jurors, something has been set up for them. Clearly, the implication there is that some of the jurors agreed to talk, and agreed possibly to go through their reasoning process.
It's organized. It's established. The judge, after he dismissed the jury, said that he would see them in a few minutes. Clearly, a judge in this case will go back and thank and do all that kind of stuff.
Jeff Toobin, I want to ask you, is there -- clearly, the prosecutors are not happy with this because they were so sure. But you don't acquit somebody simply because you don't like the other lawyers, as some has suggested. What do you think was missing in this that the jury couldn't find -- you know, came up with their session?
TOOBIN: Well, the pattern with jurors explaining their verdicts is that they almost never say that the conduct of the lawyers mattered one way or the other. And I am almost certain you will hear that today.
I just don't think the lawyers matter that much. We who are following the cases pay attention to the lawyers, but the jurors always talk about the evidence. And in this case, the overwhelming piece of evidence that the defense had in its favor was no cause of death and no time of death. There was never even a theory of when or how or even -- why Casey Anthony killed her daughter.
There is certainly a lot of evidence that she behaved terribly. That she lied about all sorts of things.
But in terms of murder, much less first-degree murder, intentional murder, there really was a big gap in the evidence.
And I certainly expect that when these jurors come to explain their verdict, the failure to prove a time of death or a cause of death will be a major, major factor.
I mean, you know, you can't fault the prosecution for the absence of evidence. The evidence is what it is. But certainly I think those are the key facts in this acquittal.
FEYERICK: Wow.
And you can see a lot of people out there. You know, it's interesting what David Mattingly said. He said a lot of people who were convinced she was guilty will walk away with a sense of justice was not served.
However, the verdict -- the jury came back. The jury weighed the evidence. And, in fact, if you believe in the court system, justice was served based on their review of all of the evidence.
Now, the jurors are entering the room. OK. Let's take a listen.
I'm sorry. This is defense team, and apparently, the woman said no questions. But let's take a listen and let's see what they're going to say.
(INAUDIBLE)
DOROTHY CLAY SIMS, CASEY ANTHONY'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: My name is Dorothy Sims, and I am thankful for today's verdict on behalf of Casey Anthony, and on behalf of all of the people that stand behind me. And I want to ask them to name their names, please.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doreen (ph).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: William Slavo (ph).
MICHELLE MEDINA (ph): Michelle Medina.
(INAUDIBLE)
SHERMAN MASON (ph): Sherman Mason.
(INAUDIBLE)
CHENEY MASON, CASEY ANTHONY'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Well, I hope this is a lesson to those of you who have indulged in media assassination for three years, biased and prejudice and incompetent talking heads saying what it would be and how it would be.
I am disgusted by some of the lawyers that have done this, and I can tell you that my colleagues from coast-to-coast and border to border have condemned this whole process of lawyers getting on television and talking about cases that they don't know a damn thing about, and don't had the experience to back up their words or the law to do it. Now you learned a lesson.
And we appreciate the jury, those of you that have been objective and professional, we like you, and others we will be talking to again. Thank you very much.
JOSE BAEZ, CASEY ANTHONY'S DEFENSE ATTORNEY: I want to start off by saying that while we're happy for Casey, there are no winners in this case. Caylee has passed on far, far too soon. And what my driving force has been for the last three years has always been to make sure that there has been justice for Caylee, and Casey, because Casey did not murder Caylee. It's that simple.
And today our system of justice has not dishonored her memory by a false conviction.
I want to thank everyone who stood behind me and who supported me throughout this time, and especially the man who took me under his wing and made sure that I stayed focused and that we continued to work hard, and that we continued to fight and battle. It's -- it really is -- I really do have mixed feelings all over the situation with those facts.
This case has brought on new challenges for all of us. Challenges in the criminal justice system, challenges in the media, and I think we should all take this as an opportunity to learn and to realize that you cannot convict someone until they have had their day in court. We have the greatest Constitution in the world. If the media and other members of the public do not respect it, it will become meaningless.
And today and yesterday, on the Fourth of July, there was -- there was a breath of life in it. I think I also want to acknowledge the prosecutors who worked hard for justice as well. I think they are a fine group of prosecutors.
Linda Drane Burdick is an incredible adversary, and I think that she certainly is one of the best lawyers I have ever seen. Frank George also was a very important member of the team that really held them together and made them very cohesive -- a cohesive unit. And Mr. Ashton is a fierce opponent, and I think that the state of Florida, all three of them serve the state of Florida very well.
As I said, I'm not as -- I'm very happy for Casey. I'm ecstatic for her and I want her to be able to grieve and grow and somehow get her life back together.
I think that this case is a perfect example of why the death penalty does not work, and why we all need to stop and look and think twice about a country that decides to kill its own citizens. Murder is not right no matter who does it, whether it's a ritual killing or someone becoming a victim in a drive-by shooting. It's disgusting.
And I think if this case gets any attention, it should focus on that issue, that we need to stop killing our people. The best feeling that I have today is that I know that I can go home and my daughter will ask me, what did you do today? And I can say that I saved a life.
(SPEAKING SPANISH)
FEYERICK: And there Jose Baez now addressing the media in Spanish. He was very eloquent. He thanked the prosecutors. He called them some of the best that he's ever worked with, even the man he had disagreements with, Ashton. He called him a fierce opponent and the state of Florida was lucky to have him.
And he said probably most proudly and most poignantly, he said, "When I go home and talk to my daughter about what I did today, I can say that I saved a life."
He was criticized in the beginning for his handling of the case. Many people did not think that he had a case, and that was also addressed by the other defense attorney who basically attacked and said this was media assassination, and he criticized folks who have been commenting on the case, saying that folks should not talk about a case that they don't know anything about.
So, the gentler approach there by Jose Baez, and the less gentle approach there, a slap-down by the other defense attorney.
And the room is again being reset, as you can see there now. And a lot of folks who are outside the courthouse, Jose Baez is basically saying justice has been done. And he said, you know, he made a comment about the death penalty, saying there should be no death penalty.
You think about this, Holly, Baez said there is no false conviction, that the jury did what they could have done. There is a real sense that no matter what criticism he got, he knew that Casey had not done that in his opinion.
HUGHES: Well, I think to argue as passionately as he did in his opening and closing, he had to believe that. You know, I have always gotten the sense that he -- some of us said he drank the Kool-aid. You know, we thought she had fooled him, but clearly the jury agreed with him.
You know, we thought, oh, she -- how does an attorney get a defense, it's what the client tells him. We talked about that earlier. Your client says this was what happened; you put it in front of a jury.
And to his credit, and give credit where credit is due, he managed to use that passion of what he believed to convince the 12 people in the box. And, ultimately, they're the only ones that matter.
FEYERICK: Right.
HUGHES: I mean, all of us who sit on the outside and talk about it, like Cheney Mason, you know, yes, we have all the public documents, we have the discovery, and as lawyers we do the best predicting we can. But here is the bottom line -- the 12 folks in the box, they're the ones that make the call.
FEYERICK: They're the ones who vote.
I want to go to David Mattingly, he's sitting outside the courthouse.
David, what is the sense there? What are you seeing? What are you hearing?
MATTINGLY: We are seeing a crowd gathering in front of the courthouse right now. The tent you might be able to see behind me was actually set up in advance where it was anticipated that the prosecutors and the Orange County sheriff will come out and make remarks after this trial was over. There's been no movement for that tent at this point.
But right now, all the action still inside that courtroom. The next words and the postscript to this long tragedy will be coming from the jurors themselves as the ones who are willing to talk publicly will file into that room and take their seats in front of the camera. It's going to be very interesting to hear what they have to say, if it truly was reasonable doubt in the prosecution's case -- maybe some of the holes that the defense attorney, Jose Baez, was pointing out.
It's going to be very interesting to all of us who have been watching this for so long. What was it that told them that they could not convict Casey Anthony?
And I would have to disagree with Jose Baez to say that there are no winners. Casey Anthony was very much on trial for her life. She will not be facing that now. It's possible she could get a year maximum for each of those misdemeanor charges that she is facing.
FEYERICK: Although having served three years in prison and having been acquitted on the more serious charges, chances are some people were wondering why they did not ask her to let go immediately. But again, that's going to happen on Thursday, I believe it is.
I want to bring in Jeff Toobin -- because, Jeff, you worked as a prosecutor. What right now are the prosecutors doing? They really did seem confident that they built the right case, a strong and solid circumstantial case. Right now, they must be devastated. That's it. It's over. It's done.
TOOBIN: You know, it's funny, I'm getting e-mailed questions. Some people say, well, what about an appeal?
An acquittal can never be appealed.
Tomorrow, Casey Anthony could go on the steps to the courthouse and confess to murder and under the Double Jeopardy Clause of the Constitution, she could not be tried again.
This case is over forever. Done. She will never go on trial again for this case.
(CROSSTALK)
TOOBIN: And I just also, I mean, you know, we've sort of been skirting around this issue. This has been a big project of our colleague, Nancy Grace, at HLN.
I mean, this case has been a very much a focus of her trial. I don't think any of us were under any sort of allusions about who the defense attorney was referring to when he criticizing the -- you know, the news coverage of this trial. And I think that is also a factor in, you know, how this case played out.
I mean, this was not a very famous case until Nancy Grace and her colleagues sort of embraced it. And I think it's safe to say --
FEYERICK: Right.
TOOBIN: -- that in a way it was very much a negative towards Casey Anthony. This verdict --
FEYERICK: And it's interesting -- because Nancy Grace, you know, I was asking her last night. She's very passionate about this. She always takes up these causes. You know, but -- she would not even call Casey Anthony by her name, referring her only as "tot mom," "tot mom."
Cheney Mason, who was the first defense attorney that you reference, he was -- he really almost issued a scathing message to what he called the media assassination by, quote, "incompetent talking heads," unquote. He almost suggested that he's going to go after some of the talking heads that it's not over. Has that happened before? Is that a possibility?
TOOBIN: I don't think so. I think this matter will be dealt with appropriately in the court of public opinion. People can make judgments about whether people behaved well or didn't. But I don't think the legal system has any role to play in the aftermath of this case.
FEYERICK: OK.
TOOBIN: I mean, as we discussed, I don't understand why Casey Anthony isn't released today at this moment.
FEYERICK: Right.
TOOBIN: Her lawyers were so stunned they forgot to ask for bail. But this case is over as far as Casey Anthony is concerned in terms of criminal liability.
FEYERICK: That's it.
TOOBIN: And the media's performance will be something we should all discuss.
FEYERICK: And, you know, this is interesting. I want to go to Debra Opri on this because you did not believe that Casey Anthony was going to be found guilty.
But one thing that I thought was interesting and I'd love to know your thoughts about this. Casey Anthony's mom and dad, George and Cindy Anthony, they sat in the back of the courtroom -- they didn't show, from where we're looking, any sort of over emotion. You know, they did not hug each other in relief. They didn't -- we could not tell whether or not they were holding hands, and maybe they were. And then they walked up and left the courtroom early.
You know, from your perspective, thinking that she never was going to be found guilty, what does that suggest? OPRI: It's the perspective of what orders they were under by enforcement, because don't forget, they already put out the word as soon as the verdict was read, the police was going to go to their house. So, they got out of there probably for protection they were probably under instructions.
I want to carry Jeff Toobin's comments a little farther about the media. I have been making statements in the media for many years about the media as the 13th juror, and in many other jurisdictions and countries, you have a court case that goes to trial and the media is off limits.
And the legislature and our government may want to look at this and say, under the constitutional guidelines that everyone is entitled to a free, a fair trial, what steps do we have to take without stepping on the First Amendment to protect that?
Because Casey Anthony is now judged not guilty. Casey Anthony will walk out of that courthouse. But let's be honest, all of us -- her life has been severely damaged, because wherever she goes or whatever she does, she's now a media celebrity in the media's eyes who got off the hook.
We have to find a balance. I have been saying it since the Michael Jackson case. I've said it now. I'll say it for the rest of my life -- the media as a 13th juror has got to reconsider what they do with a case, because Nancy Grace made this case famous, and Nancy Grace now has to re-evaluate why did she put this into the limelight, because maybe it --
FEYERICK: A lot of people are going to be looking at it, a lot of people are going to be looking to see what they did right, what was done wrong. And, clearly, not rendering a verdict, but before a verdict is rendered.
OPRI: Yes.
FEYERICK: We want to go to Jeff. Jeff Toobin, you want to comment on this, come out of it, the fact that she's not guilty of first degree murder, not guilty aggravated manslaughter. Jeff, go ahead.
TOOBIN: Well, I just wanted to make the point that the argument here is that the media had too much influence. You know, Nancy Grace was on television for three years saying she was guilty, and the jury said otherwise. Michael Jackson, also acquitted. O.J. Simpson, also acquitted. William Kennedy Smith, also acquitted.
So, the idea that a lot of press scrutiny leads to jurors that are very anxious to convict, I think it's belied by the fact. Personally, I don't think the government needs to get involved. I think it's a good subject for the media to evaluate on our own about whether we do a good job or bad job. But I don't think we don't need government regulation of what people say or report in the news for better or worse. FEYERICK: Clearly, listen, the most important thing right now, that people that everybody wants to hear from, are the jurors, to see what they were thinking, how they were thinking. And also Casey Anthony, the big question, where does she go now? What is her home now?
Jeff, thanks so much. Everybody, thanks for joining us. A lot more coming up.
Brooke Baldwin is taking over. We're swapping out the chairs. So, take it away, Brooke. Thanks, everyone.
