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Clock Ticks Toward Default; Syria Under Siege; Trump: "Debt is a Great Thing"; Covering the Debt Chaos

Aired August 01, 2011 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": We'll carry it live. I suspect we'll carry it live whenever it airs because CNN does that stuff, as you know, Brooke.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Because that's how we roll.

BLITZER: Right.

BALDWIN: We're a 24/7 news network. Wolf Blitzer, I thank you so much. We'll check in with you a little later on in the hour.

And here we are top of the hour, I want to welcome you back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And top of the hour, we are -- we've been rating all day to hear to from the speaker of the House, John Boehner, just to hear if he has enough votes to avert a first, really, government default. You saw it here, a matter of minutes ago, Mr. Boehner stepping into this room. He said the deal meets his top two goals. You heard him. Number one, spending guts, greater to the debt ceiling increase, and number two, no tax increase. He did not explicitly say whether he has the votes for this thing to pass.

But I want you to listen here, I want you to listen to House Majority Leader Eric Cantor. He spoke right after Speaker Boehner. This was, again, just a minute ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R), MAJORITY LEADER: And I'm told the leader on the other side of the building, the majority leader went to the floor today and indicated that somehow I changed my position on that. I can tell you flat out he's wrong. I insist, again, that now is not the time for us to be considering tax hikes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So, we go to Joe Johns, standing by for me in Washington.

And, Joe, help me sort of read the political tea leaves. I mean, what is going on here? Is the House Republican leadership hearing doubts from the rank-and-file about what's in this deal concerning taxes?

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think you hit the nail on the head when you talked a little bit about the armed services committee and Speaker Boehner, meeting with them.

Ever since yesterday afternoon when we first knew that there was a deal, even over on the Senate side, Republicans particularly some conservatives started being concerned, number one that, you know, in their view, the Obama administration wants to cut defense. Two, big concerns about this first tranche of money, how much spending savings is going to come out of the Pentagon, and three, how this committee that's being created by this legislation might go about the business of reducing spending on the defense side. So, that's part of the heartburn for Republicans. There are a lot of other questions obviously. But that sort of hit the nail on the head. That's one of the biggest one.

And then there are questions on the Democratic site. You know, a lot of liberals have real heartburn for all kinds of reasons. I was watching all these Democrats a little while ago coming out of this meeting with the vice president --

BALDWIN: Yes.

JOHNS: And it was very hard to find a liberal -- a true liberal in the House of Representatives saying, yes, I'm going to vote for this. They were on the fence. They weren't saying they weren't going to vote, you know, against it. But, you know -- one example and I'll shut up, all right. Go ahead.

BALDWIN: No, no, no. It sounds like folks on both sides of the aisle have said look, this is less than perfect. And I just want to show my -- let me show you my prop here. This is the actual bill. It says the budget control act amendment. Voila. All like 74 pages of it.

JOHNS: Right.

BALDWIN: First goes to the House, then goes to the Senate. And then you can show me what you're about to hold up here.

But I do want to get to the fact, you know, what are you hearing? Do you think the House will have the 216, the number of votes for it to pass?

JOHNS: You know, it's really the kind of thing where you can't predict that something like this is going to go down quite frankly, Brooke, because so many people are concerned about it, and you know that there are people on the wings who are upset on the right and on the left. And the question is whether the center will hold.

I think the common since that came from Wolf Blitzer just a little while ago suggesting, hey, it sounds like there's some confidence here. That's probably pretty close to the truth. One thing I'm going to point out here real quickly, this piece of paper --

BALDWIN: Sure.

JOHNS: -- is the CBO report, Congressional Budget Office, that shows you even Democrats have concerns about defense. This was given to me by Dennis Kucinich, the very liberal congressman from Ohio. And he highlighted just like one sentence. The caps on this plan do not apply to spending for Afghanistan and Iraq. So, you know, they too have some defense issues but it's completely different.

So, the worry here for the leaders is that people on the right and people on the left will get together and cause real problems on the floor, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And we know on the floor right now, they're still debating. And the House will officially take it out for vote. And then, from what I was hearing, the Senate may not actually get it until tomorrow. May not. We don't know yet.

JOHNS: Right.

BALDWIN: We'll be watching. You'll be watching, Joe Johns. Thank you so much, live from the Hill.

Let me stay on the Hill and talk now to Senator Mike Crapo, Republican of Idaho.

And, Senator, it's nice to have you on here. Let's just get straight to it. You know, time's awasting -- time's awasting on Capitol Hill. Still no vote on the debt reduction deal to avoid this government default.

What are you hearing, sir?

SEN. MIKE CRAPO (R), IDAHO: I'm hearing that there is a tremendous amount of dissatisfaction with the deal that was negotiated on both sides. On the Republican side, there's a significant concern being raised about the question of whether taxes are truly off the table.

And I think that Speaker Boehner is right. The way that was structured is taxes are off the table, although there are still those, including President Obama, who are saying that he thinks there's a way to wrench taxes back into the deal later on. And that's raising concerns among Republicans.

I think all in all, though, there is a growing sense that this is the first step. Not necessarily the best step and not the only step, but it's important first step to changing the paradigm in Washington from how much do we raise taxes and how much do we spend, to how much deficit reduction can we achieve. And this is I think true deficit reduction.

BALDWIN: Senator Crapo, I want to walk our viewers through how this thing would work in order to raise the debt limit and prevent default. Let me walk through this first of all.

Congress, the first number people need to know is $917 billion -- the Congress would agree to that number in terms of immediate spending cuts and then a six-person committee, three Democrats, three Republicans, would find a way to save an even a bigger chunk of change -- that chunk being $1.5 trillion.

Should the committee not reach an agreement or should Congress reject the proposal, which -- you know, could very well happen, Congress would be required to create a balanced budget amendment or automatic spending cuts would kick in, cuts largely taken from the military. And we've been talking a little bit about these DOD cuts.

And, Senator, my question to you is, you know, there seems to be concern really on both sides, to echo what Joe Johns was saying, but specifically on your side, about holding up the military budget as a sort of backstop. Do you think that's a wise idea?

CRAPO: No, I personally would have done it differently. In fact, the way it works out just as you've said is that the final backstop, the final sequester if the committee doesn't work is that there will be equal cuts coming from both defense and nondefense spending.

BALDWIN: Yes, half and half.

CRAPO: Half and half. And many of us, myself included, feel that that's the wrong balance. I think, however, that that is one of the reasons why the pressure will be on for this committee to deliver.

And I don't agree with those who say that the committee will necessarily turn to tax increases. I don't see anyway that the House of Representatives will approve a tax increase coming out of this committee. And so, the reality is this committee is going to have to go slog it through the hard work, like many of us on some of the other committees that have worked on this have done, and find the necessarily difficult but important ways to achieve those spending reductions.

I think they will be real. The legislation will make them real. And that's why I think this plan truly represents about a $3 trillion difference in our fiscal policy.

BALDWIN: You know a thing or two about being on committees. You've been on the "gang of six," which makes you one of very few Republicans who has essentially agreed to those higher revenues to bring down the debt. Would you like a seat if you could have one on this six-member committee that is set to continue the negotiating on this round two of the debt reduction? Would you want that?

CRAPO: Well, you know, I served on the president's fiscal commission and then on the "gang of six" as it moved forward. I wondered myself, I honestly don't know the answer to that question as to whether I would really love the opportunity or not to serve on this committee.

But I will tell you, what the "gang of six" did was we worked out a solution, as you indicated. We worked out a way where we could actually cut tax rates, reduce taxes, flatten the tax code and generate a tremendous amount of new revenue by growing the economy. And I actually think that's how most Americans would support putting revenue into the equation.

BALDWIN: Senator Mike Crapo, I guess that's maybe yes, maybe no on sitting on the next committee.

CRAPO: That's right. BALDWIN: Thank you so much, sir. Best of luck to you. We'll be watching what's happening there in Washington.

You know who else is watching? Wall Street. Let's take a look here at the numbers, the final numbers are settling on Wall Street. And not a bad day. In the positive territory at 12,132, up 10 points.

Alison Kosik at the New York Stock Exchange.

Alison, is the debt drama to be -- you know, is some of that obviously affecting the numbers on Wall Street?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, yes. Actually, we ended lower on the Dow, 10 points. NASDAQ is down about half a percent.

BALDWIN: Oh, it's in the red.

KOSIK: Yes, that's OK.

BALDWIN: Sorry about that.

KOSIK: You know, that's quite all right. You know, what's going on here on Wall Street is Wall Street kind of put the possibility of default behind them, and the focus now is on the economy because what came in today is why stocks ended in the red.

We found out that manufacturing last month was much weaker than expected. It shows there was almost no growth in manufacturing in June. And many analysts believe, Brooke, that manufacturing really needs to help lead the way in getting the economy back on track.

So, the debt ceiling issues sort of behind now. Everybody, sort of, looking ahead, looking forward, and the future not looking so bright according to these number, not with manufacturing, not with job growth, not with housing -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: I think that was truly subconscious on my part, wishing the positive territory, wishing it and it wasn't.

KOSIK: There you go, fingers crossed, I hear you.

BALDWIN: But the debt uncertainty --

KOSIK: I get it.

BALDWIN: The debt uncertainty has taken the toll, you know, on people's 401(k)s, on investments, obviously huge concerns as we've been talking about, you know, just a lot of couple of weeks for a lot of Americans. Should the country, should we brace for a long-term hit?

KOSIK: You know what? For sure. This is all -- all these debt ceiling talks and the uncertainty about it has definitely shaken our confidence. But it would probably see a full-on default for people to see a long term blow to their portfolio. It doesn't look like that's going to happen. You know, we've got plenty of other problems, plenty of other sectors of the economy that needs to w need to see improvement on. Once again the manufacturing area, jobs, housing, they're stagnant.

If you really want to see a rally that's going to stick, Brooke, first, those areas have to improve. And they've got to start with jobs. Jobs is a huge factor and there was a huge disappointment last month.

We're getting a big jobs report this Friday. We're going to see if there's a bounce for July. If we don't see a bounce, get ready to see a selloff on the market and at least a short-term hit to people's investments -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Alison Kosik, thank you so much. A look at the markets there. This is all interconnected, obviously.

Coming up, Donald Trump weighing in on the debt deal and as we recently discovered, he's none too pleased. Don't miss my conversation with the Republican as we go back to the unfolding situation on Capitol Hill in just a moment.

But, first, a possible break in one of America's greatest unsolved mysteries. Forty years ago this November, this man hijacked a plane, he then jumped out holding a parachute and $200,000 he stole in cash. Now, the feds are revealing a lead in the case of D.B. Cooper. Does that name ring a bell? That is next.

Also, you ever dream of going into space? You may soon get a chance. Wait till you hear who's holding a private space travel contest and who showed up at today's announcement.

Stay right there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Just want to remind you, we are keeping a close eye here on the looming votes -- I don't know how far away -- but the looming votes there on Capitol Hill beginning in the House with this debt deal. First to the House, then to the Senate. Keep in mind, the deadline to get this thing done, tomorrow.

Right now, live pictures there on the floor. They are debate then, of course, they will take it for a vote. We'll take it all for you live.

Meantime, let me move on and talk about this amazing case. The FBI may have finally caught a break in one of the greatest mysteries of the 20th century. What happened to a man calling himself D.B. Cooper?

It has been just about 40 years since Cooper bought an $18 plane ticket -- that's how you know it's a long time ago, you're paying 18 buck for a plane ticket, 18 bucks. Donned a black clip-on tie and staged the only hijacking in American history that is still unsolved.

Cooper jumped out of the plane after trading passengers for four parachutes and $200,000 in small bills. An eight-year-old boy actually found some of that money back in 1980, but D.B. Cooper hasn't been seen since he leapt out of the plane. Now, the FBI says it has a credible new lead and a new suspect.

Now, agents will not name the suspect, but they have sent an item belonging to that person to the crime lab at Quantico, Virginia, for testing. And even though this hijacking happened in 1971, the FBI does have a fingerprint and a partial DNA sample. They come Cooper' s black clip-on tie which he left behind when he jumped out of the plane.

More news unfolding right now, "Rapid Fire," let's go.

Some amazing video just released by the U.S. Coast Guard. They intercepted a submarine filled with drugs in the western Caribbean Sea. The water craft here called a self-propelled semisubmersible and they're regularly used by narcotics transporters.

This is the first time the Coast Guard has made an underwater drug removal from this kind of craft. And what a haul -- 15,000 pounds of cocaine worth just about $180 million.

He is known for living in a pineapple under the sea, but now SpongeBob SquarePants is a wanted man. Or at least the suspect wearing his mask is. A man, along with another, seen in this surveillance video here, robbing a 7-Eleven store near Orlando. They fired two shots. And while no one was injured there, police are considering these suspects dangerous criminals.

And investigators say an electrical short caused this fire in the cockpit of an Egypt Air flight on Friday. The YouTube video, you can see some of the smoke pouring out here. This is the front of the plane. Nearly 300 passengers and the crew had to rush off the plane shortly before takeoff from Cairo to Saudi Arabia. They did all get off safely. Two firefighters, though, were treated for smoke inhalation.

And for the fourth time in July, Mount Etna, look at her go. One of the most active volcanoes in the world erupting over this past weekend. The volcano on the island of Sicily in southern Italy sent flames shooting more than 800 feet into the air and lava fountains nearly 1,700 feet.

Look at these pictures. Look at that. No casualties, no damage reported.

And finally, the contest I just might be signing up for starting today. The iconic Seattle Space Needle is holding a contest that will send one lucky winner into space. A thousand people who entered this contest will be randomly selected in November. Then they have to submit a video saying why they should be chosen.

Don't go out and buy moon boots just yet, though. The actual trip will only be about six minutes of zero gravity before returning to earth. I still say pretty cool.

The contest is being held to celebrate the Space Needle's 50th anniversary and it was built back in 1962 for the world's fair to mark the beginning of the U.S. space race.

And now this --

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

BALDWIN: Hospitals are overwhelmed. Morgues are overflowing. Dozens of people, including children, have lost their lives there in Syria. And coming up tonight, a big meeting will go down that could have a huge effect on what happens next.

Also, the Republican presidential candidates now reacting to the debt deal. And some of their positions? They might surprise you. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: And now for our "CNN Equals Politics" update, let's go to Jim Acosta in Washington.

Jim, good to see you. What do you have?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, you know, it's no surprise with the Tea Party folks being declared winners in the debt ceiling debate that nearly all of the GOP contenders for 2012 are coming down against this deal.

The politics of this is kind of interesting, because, you know, you have a lot of folks saying, well, the Tea Party won this battle, and yet, you have some Tea Party members of Congress planning to vote against this deal. You have some who are going to vote in favor of it.

But you have folks like Mitt Romney coming out today very strongly against this deal, saying it opens up the door to tax increases later on.

Michele Bachmann also saying the same thing.

Newt Gingrich, he basically said this might be a good deal if it doesn't end up raising taxes in the end, but he didn't really come down and say one way or the other.

Jon Huntsman -- what is interesting about Jon Huntsman, he is the one Republican at this point who's supporting this deal.

Tim Pawlenty is not as well.

But Jon Huntsman may have found a wedge issue to drive some of the contrast between himself and some of these other contenders. We'll have to wait and see. He's not doing that well in the polls right now. He's going to have to find some kind of issue to generate some enthusiasm for this campaign.

But, Brooke, having spent almost all day up on Capitol Hill today --

BALDWIN: Oh, yes? ACOSTA: -- the folks in the Tea Party movement feel like this is their day. They feel like they are winners, hashtag winning in this debt ceiling debate today, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Yes, John Boehner said, look, you know, the cuts we're making are better than how we're increasing the debt ceiling. That was, you know, issue number one.

ACOSTA: That's right.

BALDWIN: And number two, no tax increases.

So, from him, it sounded like a win. Jim Acosta, thank you so much.

ACOSTA: You bet.

BALDWIN: Coming up: who else seem to think that the Tea Party is winning? Donald Trump. He's going to weigh in her on the debt deal. Let me hold nothing back. You're going to hear my conversation with the outspoken Republican, and what he thinks of his own party.

Also, one of the most wanted criminals in the drug violence along our border now behind bars. One of his alleged victim, you will probably recognize. That is next.

But, first, fans in Chicago are still in awe, hours after Sir Paul McCartney rocked Wrigley Field last night. And because it is music Monday, who better to take us to break than a Beatle.

(MUSIC)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Parts of Syria right now are under siege and that's where I want to begin here in "Globe Trekking."

Take a look here. This is what's going on in the city of Hama today. Syrian forces launching a second day of deadly attacks. Activists tell CNN that government forces killed 70 people across the country just yesterday, 50 of them in Hama alone. The Syrian regime claims it is protecting the city from armed gangs.

We're getting these images you see here from YouTube so we cannot independently verify them. But you can see here the violence is intensifying. And some analysts say the government is trying to put down protest during the holy month of Ramadan. Leaders around the world are demanding this violence stop.

President Obama issuing a statement just yesterday saying that he is, quote, "appalled by the Syrian government's use of violence and brutality against its own people," end quote. He said Syria will be better of when a democratic transition moves forward. Protesters have been pushing for that move to democracy ever since we've been telling the story here in March. That is when they hit the streets demanding that President Bashar al-Assad get out. Today, the European Union expanded sanctions against Assad and his inner circle. And less than an hour from now, the United Nations will be holding an emergency meeting as to what is going on there in Syria.

Now to Mexico and a drug gang leader's shocking admission. He says he ordered the deaths of some 1,500 people. Police captured Jose Antonio Acosta Hernandez on Saturday. He's known as "El Diego," and he's accused of being a leader of the drug gang known as La Linea, the enforcement arm of the Juarez cartel. Juarez is Mexico's most violent city and it shares a border with El Paso, Texas

Acosta was one of Mexico's most wanted criminals and he is the suspected mastermind in the killing of three people connected with the U.S. consulate in northern Mexico last March. Consulate employee Leslie Enriquez and her husband Arthur Redelfs were gunned down as they left the birthday party in their white SUV. The husband of another consulate employee in another vehicle was also killed.

He is accused of setting off a bomb and shooting up a youth camp, laughing as he pulled the trigger. We are now learning more details, hearing more about the suspect in the Norway massacre. He is making bizarre demands behind bars and find out why he's so apparently concerned about his looks. That's coming up.

Plus, women will soon get birth control without a co-pay, but that's not all health insurance will cover here, and it's sparking this massive firestorm. "Reporter Roulette" is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Well, we know behind the scenes a debt deal has been reached. The question is, can that debt deal -- in fact, I have a copy of the bill here -- all 74 pages. This is it. It's officially called a Budget Control Act Amendment. This is being put to the House first apparently because it will have a tougher time passing the House. Then it gets put to the Senate, and then ultimately it will get the signature of the president, obviously, to become law.

Here's what's happening right now. We have been watching some of the debate procedurally. They debate the rule then open debate on the floor of the House with regard to this debt deal, and then it gets put forward to a vote. We know that's going to happen at some point today.

We also heard from the speaker of the House, John Boehner and the House majority leader, Eric Cantor. They spoke just half an hour or so ago. I want to play that sound in case you missed it. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (D-OH), HOUSE SPEAKER: -- we've worked with our members and listened to the American people. We have a real interest making sure that we don't get into this spot again and that we ought to have a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution.

And I think if you look at the structure of the balanced budget issues in this agreement, it gives us the best shot that we've had in the 20 years that I've been here to build support for a balanced budget amendment to the Constitution to put the kind of fiscal handcuffs on this Congress that are sorely needed. If we had been operating under a balanced budget amendment, we'd have never gotten ourselves into the mess that we're in.

REP. ERIC CANTOR (R-VA), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: I think the big win here for us and for the American people is the fact that have there are no tax hikes in this package. With so many people out of work, with the middle class hoping for more jobs, the last thing we need right now are tax hikes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Now to this. Bizarre new details about the alleged mass killer in Norway, and some big health news today for women. Time to play "Reporter Roulette."

First up, Atika Shubert with what investigators are learning about Norway shooting suspect Anders Breivik.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brooke, as you can imagine, media in Norway but also here in Britain are combing through Brevik's so-called manifesto. And what's becoming clear is a frightening picture of a meticulously planned attack. Among the things he mentions in his manifesto are tipping for sourcing the materials for the attack on eBay. He apparently bought a lot of the supplies, including chemicals that he used in the attack. And he even goes so far as to say how to turn seemingly innocuous materials into lethal weapons.

Now, according to the British newspaper "The Daily Telegraph," the manifesto also says that his arrest by police would simply mark the quote, unquote, "propaganda phase." And a big part of that phase is reportedly his appearance. He did plastic surgery to enhance his nose and chin. Took pictures of his new face. And now that he has been arrested, he is reportedly refusing to have his photograph taken by police in that classic mug shot.

He also requested in his court appearances to be seen with a military uniform. That was denied by the judge. And he is now he's insisting he only wear a specific red Lacoste sweater. Apparently all part of hit, quote, unquote, "propaganda plan," Brooke.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Interesting. Atika Shubert, thank you so much.

Next here on "Reporter Roulette," let's go to senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen with some news here will make many women happy. Birth control and more without a co-pay. Elizabeth?

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Ladies, starting next year, your insurance company is going to have to pay for your birth control. I mean for the whole thing. You won't have a co-pay at all. So, that means your birth control pills, your IUD, surgery if you want to get your tubes tied.

The only thing your insurance company won't have to pay for is a vasectomy for your husband or boyfriend. They won't pay for that. This is just for women.

Surveys show that most Americans like this idea. The only people who aren't too crazy about it are Catholic groups and far-right groups. They say they don't want their insurance premiums going to pay for something they philosophically object to.

Brooke?

BALDWIN: Elizabeth Cohen, thank you so much.

Coming up, the man convicted of killing women then living with their bodies inside this so-called house of horrors will soon learn his fate.

Also, breaking developments in the urgent search for a missing New Hampshire girl. She was last seen one week ago today in her bedroom. Now a major discovery today near her home. Sunny Hostin has the brand-new information. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: I know a lot of you have been following this story of this missing 11-year-old girl. Divers searching for 11-year-old Celina Cass have found a female body in a river not too far from this girl's home.

Let's go to Sunny Hostin, who's "On the Case." And Sunny, in terms of details, do we know where exactly this body was found?

SUNNY HOSTIN, LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR, "TRU TV": Yes, we do. Apparently this body was found in the Connecticut River in West Stewart Sound (ph), not far from Cass' hometown of Stewart Sound, New Hampshire. Certainly, Brooke, this is not what police wanted to find. They have not identified the body, but they seem to now have cordoned off the Cass home. They have cordoned off this area, and there's some indication that perhaps this is the body of the little 11-year-old girl.

BALDWIN: I know it was a week ago today that she was last seen on her computer in her bedroom. And none of her parents have actually really come forward and talked, until we have now heard from her biological father as of just yesterday. And he really now is just coming forward as any parent would, pleading for his daughter's return.

Is it unusual, Sunny, for parents of a missing child to stay mum, to stay quiet for so long?

HOSTIN: It isn't unusual. Oftentimes, Brooke, investigators ask the family not to make public statements because these are active investigations. But in this case, certainly perhaps in conjunction with the investigative team, they did decide -- he did decide to make that statement.

BALDWIN: Her father says, Celina, she's not the child that would leave on her own, someone must have taken her. My question is, is it more difficult, Sunny, to kidnap a child from a home in a town where, you know, everyone knows everyone else? It's population 800 here. Wouldn't that just make it more likely that someone must have seen something?

HOSTIN: You would think so, but oftentimes children just seem to vanish in thin air. It's really surprising. I have seen abductions where there are very small towns, Brooke, and no one know where is the child went. And then in very, very large cities where you have multiple sightings. So, it happens in different ways, depending on the circumstances of the case, depending on the facts of this case. But certainly this is a very, very sad turn of events if, indeed, this is the body of little 11-year-old Celina Cass.

BALDWIN: We may find out soon. We'll stay on that story.

But another story we've been talking about, really, actually, for a couple of years is about this accused serial killer. Anthony Sowell was in court today, watching his lawyers try to save his life. He's the man found guilty of murdering 11 women and stashing their bodies around his home in Cleveland.

Sunny, during this guilt or innocence phase in the trial, I know his lawyers didn't put up much of a fight. Didn't call any witnesses, didn't present any evidence in this man's case? Is that unusual in a capital murder case like this?

HOSTIN: Well, I won't say it's unusual, especially when you have a case like this where the evidence was just so overwhelming. We're talking about 11 women, and the bodies were found in his home. Oftentimes, defense attorneys make the decision that while the guilt is overwhelming, they're going to put all their eggs in one basket and they're going to try to save their client's life. And I think that was the strategy from the very beginning with this defense team.

BALDWIN: Yes, I guess I shouldn't say accused serial killer. Convicted serial killer. But his lawyers are taking a very different approach to sentencing, are they not?

HOSTIN: Well, they are. And again, they're sort of putting forth quite a vigorous case and trying to convince this jury not to put him to death because they have two options. They can put him in prison for the rest of his life without the possibility of parole, or they can sentence him to death.

So, they've been putting forth a lot of what we call mitigating factors in the law, trying to explain to this jury that there are reasons why he behaved this way. There are reasons why he killed so many women. That he's a disturbed person, someone that's depressed, someone that was abused. And that seems to be the tactic that we often see in these types of death penalty cases. The prosecution puts forth these really terrible, horrendous factors. And the defense team tries to counter that by mitigating factors. And I think that's what we've seen a lot of . They're trying to save his life.

BALDWIN: They're trying to save his life. You have those factors. But then you have the facts. There are 11 dead women, some of whom were found in the walls of his home. I mean, if you're sitting on the jury, which way do you think they would go? Do they send him to prison for the rest of his life, or do they put him to death?

HOSTIN: Well, you know, I've been discussing this case with a lot of people. And even people who are sort of against the death penalty have said we don't want someone like this out on the street. We don't feel comfortable with putting them away with life without the possibility of parole. Because we've seen some of these cases overturned, right?

And so, I think the conventional wisdom out there is that he should be put to death. But we'll see what happens.

BALDWIN: Sunny Hostin, thank you very much.

And continuing this debt conversation as the House gets closer and closer here to voting today on this debt deal, we have heard from the vice president. Vice president Joe Biden after a meeting with his caucus, congressional Democrats. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I didn't go to convince. I went to explain and lay out exactly how we got to where we were and why this is so important for the country.

In my career up here after 36 years, I never asked another person to vote against what they think their interest is. I am confident -- my sense -- I was --

(CROSSTALK)

BIDEN: -- well. My sense is that they expressed all their frustration, which I would be frustrated if I were sitting there as well, that we're going to be -- we're taken down to the wire like this.

And so what they want to know is they asked questions specifically about the proposed legislation. Excuse me. I'm sorry -- the proposed legislation. I thought it was a good meeting. And I feel confident that -- that this will pass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So there you have Vice President Joe Biden, confident with regard to this debt deal. Let's go to the White House to my colleague, Dan Lothian. Dan, I know the action is happening down the road, down Pennsylvania Avenue up on Capitol Hill. So tell me what is happening today at the White House?

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, you saw the vice president there and he's really involved in a lot of the action. We can presume that the president certainly is also involved from this end, perhaps reaching out to members of Congress, but that's something that the White House has not confirmed in fact, nothing on his schedule happening today.

But no doubt the president working on that behind the scenes. The vice president making that hard sell especially to liberal Democrats. A short time ago, I was watching members of the congressional black caucus and they're have deep reservations about disagreement there.

Unhappy because they believe the poor and the needy are the ones who are going to take the biggest hit and that the wealthiest Americans are getting off here. Because there's no revenue or disagreement, no tax hikes.

And so these are the Democrats that the White House are working on, the vice president answering their questions and explaining the deal to them.

And the bill sell, at least according to White House Spokesman Jay Carney is telling these members of the Democratic Party that this deal is good for the American people, that the American people are the winners in this deal.

BALDWIN: So while you're talking selling, let's talk signing because obviously the big if, if it passes the House, then it goes on to the Senate. If it passes the Senate, obviously the president needs to sign the bill. Is August 2nd, is that a hard deadline or is it soft?

LOTHIAN: Well, that has always been the hard deadline. I mean, they've explained that August 2nd was the deadline. If there wasn't any kind of agreement at that point then, you know, that's when the nation would go into default.

Clearly, we have an agreement here and what the White House has said from early on is that if, in fact, there was an agreement or they were on their way to some agreement and they need a couple of days to essentially cross the T's, dot the I's then the president would be willing to entertain something like that.

We hear no talk about something like that right now, but that's something that the White House has said in the past.

BALDWIN: OK, Dan Lothian for me at the White House. Dan, appreciate it.

LOTHIAN: OK.

BALDWIN: Coming up, next Donald Trump weighing in on the debt deal and he's not happy with anyone. You will hear my conversation with the Republican businessman including why he says he loves debt. Don't miss this next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Donald Trump guess what? He says debt is a great thing and he's got nothing, but love for the Tea Party Movement. This is a classic Trump. In fact, I just talked to him.

We covered the debt ceiling negotiations, the president's political maneuvering, and the upside of owing more money than you've got. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: Could debt ever be a good thing is my point. You have to spend a little money to make a little money.

DONALD TRUMP (via telephone): I love debt. I mean, I've used to become very rich because it's leverage. You can't become really, really rich without debt and what you'll do is you know, you'll use it and if things are good, that's great.

And if things are bad you'll renegotiate or you'll do something or you'll do what I have and lots of others of the biggest most important business leaders have done, you'll take advantage of the laws that are given to you, which in some cases the chapter laws.

And what you do is you do what you have do, but debt can be a great thing if you know how to use it. But it's a very dangerous thing. It's a very, very slippery slope.

BALDWIN: Well, on the Hill there's been a heck of a lot of negotiating and there's been a lot of criticism toward the Tea Party Movement-backed Republicans. Some have been very much so saying, look, they're the ones holding these talks hostage.

That they absolutely did not want to raise the revenue and they're not. So that's a win in their column and I want to just use the metaphor for you. You know, let's say you're running a company and you have some recalcitrant members of the board. As CEO, how do you handle them?

TRUMP: Well, it's called you get in a room and you talk to them. I think Boehner really did a very good job. I think he tried very hard, but I have great respect and even love for the Tea Party because they've done something that nobody has been able to do.

They made people think. We're already close to $15 trillion in debt. We're going up to $21 trillion or $22 trillion in debt. The Tea Party made people realize that we cannot continue on this path.

And what's really happening is the country is doing very poorly. The unemployment rate is going through the roof. I mean, if you look at what's going on, other countries are eating our lunch -- and our country is becoming a very, very -- let's call it a very unsuccessful country. And the Tea Party made people realize some of these things. I have a great respect for the Tea Party. I know many people that are really leaders of Tea Party and I like them a lot and I respect them a lot.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BALDWIN: There you have it the words of Donald Trump. I'd like to hear the words of Wolf Blitzer as he's been covering this debt deal as have I and many of us here at CNN 24/7. Wolf Blitzer, who do you have coming up on "SITUATION ROOM" talking debt?

WOLF BLITZER, THE SITUATION ROOM: Well, we're going to have a very different perspective, Dan Pfeiffer, the communications director over at the White House, he's here in "THE SITUATION ROOM." We'll get to hear what he and the president have to say about what's going on right now.

They're working hard as you know behind the scenes, in front of the scenes to get enough Democrats, especially in the House of Representatives onboard to help the Republicans pass this deal. It's going to be a close one in the House. I think it's going to be a lopsided roll call in the Senate once the Senate decides to vote.

That could happen after the House vote tonight could slip until tomorrow with the president has until tomorrow night to sign all of this into law, assuming it passes both chambers.

We also have the chairman of the congressional black caucus, Congressman Emanuel Cleaver. He's going to be joining us. A lot of his members in the congressional black caucus, in the so-called progressive caucus as well. They're not happy with this.

Many are going to vote against what the president of the United States wants them to do. I'll ask them why. I'll ask them what's going on. He'll explain his side of the story. So we're going to have a good show coming up right at top of the hour.

BALDWIN: I know you will. I appreciate your special last night as well, Wolf Blitzer. Thank you so much. We'll see you in five.

Meantime, it's safe to say, if you're on Capitol Hill, you know, it's pretty chaotic. A fantastic story to get to cover, but it's chaotic. As the clock ticks down, lawmakers are scrambling to get a deal on the president's desk or keep the deal from getting to the president's desk.

Coming up next, a look at what's happening behind the scenes. Joe Johns in the thick of things on the Hill. We'll get your "Political Pop" after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: It is really getting down to the wire there on Capitol Hill. The House is schedule to vote first on this debt deal and then the Senate. I want to go straight to the Hill to my colleague Joe Johns because in today's "Political Pop" we're going to give you a behind the scenes look at the media coverage of these debt negotiations.

And Joe, this is how we normally see you, right, head on and what is this, the Canon Rotonda, but just tell me what's like being part of history, covering the story, and you know, meeting these members of Congress who, you know, this is the 11th hour.

JOE JOHNS, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Right. Well, there are a lot of media people here. All I can say, we just wanted to give some a view of where we are. Canon Rotonda as you said, this is the House side, the Capitol is just across the street from -- we sort of pan over here.

You get a sense of all the equipment in this beautiful sort of ornate, round hall way, which you're looking at here is the crew from ABC's "World News Tonight," but there are a variety of other news crews from basically all over the world.

This is just one place where they hang out trying to cover the story and that really sort of informs the notion that this is an international story, people from all over the world are interested because they want to know what's going to happen to the United States and its financial situation.

We sent an intern out. His name is Austin Alonzo with little flip cam to try to capture some of the chaos, if you will, in the hallways. Here you go, just take a look at this. He goes out to a stakeout in the basement of the Capitol in the Capitol Visitor Center show you the crush of reports, camera crews and the like, all waiting for Democrats and the vice president to emerge from a meeting there where they're talking about whether they can sign on to the deal or not.

I was there in fact and because this was such a tight space, I didn't even know Austin Alonzo was standing there and shooting though I was right around the corner from him. You know, it's sort of a stop and go kind of situation because you have negotiations.

You don't know when they're going to end. You don't when they might start up again or where a news conference gets called and gets canceled and so on. So that's what you get and I got tell you from covering stuff at the Capitol for years, this is certainly one of the biggest events I really think I've ever seen.

BALDWIN: I wanted to ask you, Joe Johns. I know you've been in D.C. for decades. How long did you cover the Hill and how does this compare?

JOHNS: Yes, I think I did about a 14-year stint on Capitol Hill and the only event I can tell you quite frankly, Wolf - I'm sorry -

BALDWIN: That is a complement.

JOHNS: Right, the only time I can tell you that was bigger or was about this size I think was the impeachment of President Clinton. That was another international event, cameras all over the place. But this one compares to that, I can't tell you which one was larger about the same to me. BALDWIN: I can feel the energy, the crush members of media trying to talk to members of Congress here as this, you know, it's about to be put to a vote in the House. It is so exciting, Joe Johns. I wish I was standing next to you, but for now, you get to cover this one, Joe. Thank you so much.

And now, Wolf Blitzer, he has a big two hours ahead of him, "THE SITUATION ROOM" starts right now.