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Riots Continue in Britain; Fugitive Siblings Captured; CIA May be Helping Mexican Government in Drug War; Email Sent at Work May Result in Firing; Member of Married Gay Couple Faces Deportation

Aired August 10, 2011 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: To London now, where it's just been 7:00 p.m., and a fight-back is under way. That's straight from a furious British prime minister after four straight nights of riots, looting and arson, in his words, despicable violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMERON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: Pockets of our society that are not just broken, but, frankly, sick. When we see children as young as 12 and 13 looting and laughing, when we see the disgusting sight of an injured young man with people pretending to help him while they are robbing him, it is clear there are things that are badly wrong in our society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: The unrest began in London after a protest over a deadly police shooting. But when Cameron sent in 10,000 extra police from other parts of the country, the trouble spread as far north as Manchester and Liverpool. Hundreds of people have been arrested, as you heard, an 11-year-old boy among them.

And three men are dead in Birmingham, run down by a car while trying to protect their homes and business from looters. Police have launched a murder investigation.

And my colleague Dan Rivers is right there in the thick of it.

Dan, tell us, what is the latest? Have police actually tied these deaths directly to the riots that we have been watching?

DAN RIVERS, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Not yet, no. I mean, this is still being investigated.

Let me just show you the scene here. This is a kind of police line that's across the road where this incident took place. You can see all the local community are being held for the moment back up there. And it is still very tense here, a lot of concerns that this is going to be twisted and manipulated by some elements here into something about race, and not about pure criminality and murder, effectively, which is what this should be about.

If we just show you here the kind of press line here down this way is where the incident took place. And that's where the three young men were mowed down by a car that locals say was driven by looters. The young men are all British-Pakistani men and the locals say that the car was driven by a black man and that is why there is such concern that this is going to be twisted by some people here and turned into something about race between the two communities, which normally, you know, do get along reasonably well. There have been tensions in the past, but, normally, the two communities get on well.

At the moment, though, things are incredibly tense. We just had a bit of an illustration of how tense they are when the father of one of the young dead men spoke appealing for calm, telling all the -- the people here to go home and calm down.

And then there was some comment from a black woman here, and suddenly the atmosphere changed instantly and the crowd surged towards that black woman. It got very threatening and aggressive. And that just is an illustration of just what a tinderbox it is at the moment. The concern is that there will be some elements here, some extreme elements here that will want to seek revenge for what's happened to these three young men and they will want to go out and do something about that tonight. And that's the big concern at the moment.

KAYE: Dan, I spoke last hour with a member of Parliament. And we talked a little bit about why this is happening to some extent, that the youth there are frustrated with many issues.

But does it seem to you -- I know that many of the protesters are considered hooligans of some sort. But is there any legitimate protesting going on?

RIVERS: I don't think so, no. I mean, I think this -- from what we have seen everywhere -- and we have traveled fairly extensively around to different places to get a feel for this -- it seems to be just purely about criminality, this. It's not to do with protesting about the death in Tottenham last Thursday in that area of North London.

In fact, a lot of the young people that you ask don't even know the name of the guy that was killed in Tottenham, Mark Duggan. It's not about that. This is about pure copycat opportunism, people coming along and thinking that they can steal things and it's their opportunity to kind of profit from a very kind of lawless situation.

This area now has been, as you can see, absolutely flooded with police. You're talking about 1,000 police officers on duty this evening in this area at Birmingham. So they're hoping that will be enough to keep a lid on this.

But as I say, the other concern now is that because of the different racial dynamics involved in this situation, that this will end up being something about race and not about what was originally happening here, which was about criminality. And the three young men were out trying to protect local businesses from looters. And that's what -- how this started. Now this has suddenly become something slightly different.

KAYE: Yes. Dan, we have a sound bite from a grieving father that I want to share with our viewers. We will get right back to you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TARIK JAHAN, FATHER OF HIT-AND-RUN VICTIM: I lost my son. Blacks, Asians, white, we all live in the same community. Why do we have to kill one another? What started these riots and what's escalated? Why are we doing this? I lost my son. Step forward if you want to lose your sons. Otherwise, calm down and go home, please.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Telling people to go home.

There you have this grieving father, Dan, trying to instill calm.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERS: -- pretty clear illustration there of -- yes. Sorry. Yes. I didn't mean to step on your words there.

Yes, exactly, appealing for all of the people back here, basically, to go home, to calm down, to try and take the heat out of this situation. And, actually, that father, Tarik, was brilliant. When there was that sudden inflammation of tensions and the crowd sort of surged towards this woman, he immediately jumped up on -- I think on the bonnet of a car and again told everyone to calm down and simply said, what are you doing? I have already said I want you to go home. We're grieving for the loss of our son.

KAYE: Yes.

RIVERS: And that seemed to calm things down again fairly quickly. So everyone is hoping that they will heed those words and that this won't go any further now.

KAYE: Dan Rivers in Birmingham -- Dan, thank you.

And now I want to show you something if you are interested in following what's been happening in London as we are. There is a really cool interactive graphic here on CNN.com. Look at this. We have the before and after for the riots in London. Now, look closely at this picture here. This is the before. All you have to do is use your mouse. And you can slide along here with me. This is the before picture of this area in London.

This is in Tottenham, where it all started. And then you can slide back and you can see what these riots have done. The damage there in Britain is really just unbelievable. And you can go to several photos that we have here for you. I won't get through all of them here. But you can see the before and after. It's really a fascinating interactive that our folks at CNN.com have set up. Check it out if you get a chance. And you can see for yourself exactly what is happening there. We are just getting some new pictures in from Colorado, where those three fugitive siblings were just captured after a high-speed chase and crash. We will show them to you right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: We have new pictures that we want to get to right now and share with you. These are coming to us from Colorado. We have been telling about the three siblings that have been accused of bank robbery and attempted murder. Well, they were captured today in Colorado.

There was a high-speed chase about 25 miles -- on Interstate 25, actually. And it reached up to 100 miles an hour. You can see here some of the crash scene photos. We know that there was a shoot-out, according to the sheriff's department, told us that there was a shoot- out there, Colorado State Police telling us that as well.

The car then crashed. As you can see, that we believe is the car that belonged to the suspects. Apparently, they had changed the plates. They had been spotted in some stores nearby. Then they had that high-speed chase. It ended when the car rolled over near the town of Walsenburg. Officials do say that the suspects shot at police.

They were considered to be armed and dangerous. But it turns out there weren't any injuries to the police. But we are being told that one of the suspects is injured in the case. We're not sure which suspect or how serious those injuries are. But just to remind you, these were the three that have been accused of the attempted murder of a police officer in Florida and also a bank robbery in Georgia. They have been identified as Ryan Edward Dougherty, his sister Lee Grace Dougherty, and half-brother Dylan Dougherty Stanley.

And, once again, those are some pretty dramatic photos. You can see the skid marks there in the road and the amount of police. They got a pretty good tip and they got them.

Meanwhile, outrage continues following the beating death of a homeless man in California. Now one community activist wants several people to lose their jobs. We will explain next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: An important follow-up now to a story that we first brought you last week. And I want to warn you this is a very tough story to watch.

Kelly Thomas, a California man who was homeless and schizophrenic, was beaten to death allegedly by six Fullerton police officers. This is what Kelly Thomas looked like before. That's his picture there in the left of your screen and then after the beating on the right of your screen, barely recognizable.

On July 5, Fullerton police responded to reports of a man trying to break into cars near a bus station. Witnesses say what began with a search of Thomas' backpack ended with this. They say Thomas was kicked, Tasered multiple times, hog-tied face-down, smashed against the concrete, his head slammed with a flashlight.

Thomas fell into a coma and died from his injuries five days later. Officers reportedly found some things in Thomas' backpack that didn't belong to him. Police say Thomas also tried to run from them. Crowds of strangers saw what happened, recording what they could with their phones and with surveillance cameras nearby.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The cops are kicking this poor guy over there, all these cops.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were all yelling at them.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then all the cops came and they hog-tied him. And he was like: "Please, God. Please, dad."

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: Now you may not have been able to make that out at the end there, but that was Kelly Thomas screaming for his dad, a former Orange County sheriff's deputy. I spoke with his dad last week.

Listen to just a bit of that interview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON THOMAS, FATHER OF KELLY THOMAS: When I use the term police officer, I mean it with respect. These were a band of gang members, literally, rogue cops.

And I mean that to point out that the good men and women of the Fullerton Police Department, as a whole, they're great officers. This is a band of rogue cops that were thinking they're above the law, took it into their own hands under color of authority, and brutally beat my son to death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KAYE: We did reach out to the Fullerton Police Department. They issued this brief statement from Police Chief Michael Sellers, who says -- quote -- "This is tragic for our community. We are in the midst of an investigation."

I want to talk now with Tony Bushala. He is an entrepreneur and an activist who runs the Friends for Fullerton's Future blog. This is the blog that ran the photo of Kelly Thomas and has taken up his case.

Tony, welcome to the show. I want to ask you why you have made this your mission. Why take up this cause?

TONY BUSHALA, FRIENDS FOR FULLERTON'S FUTURE: Well, our blog, Fullerton's Future, is based on holding people accountable in our community, elected and appointed representatives.

KAYE: And so that is why? Have you taken up causes like this before?

BUSHALA: No, not murder. We have taken up causes holding the city council accountable for raising our water rates or giving away the store to local developers or to people that are financing city councilmen's elections and things like that. But, murder, this is the first case that I have ever -- I'm not used to this.

KAYE: Right. I know that you are using the word murder there. But I do want to point out for our viewers that no charges, certainly not murder charges, have been filed in this case.

But, Tony, I want to ask you about the district attorney. He has said that he does not see any evidence that the officers meant to kill Kelly Thomas. What's your take on that?

BUSHALA: Well, I'm sure there was no intention of going out there and killing Kelly.

From what I know is there was a false report that was put in about Kelly breaking into vehicles. There was no vehicle that was burglarized. He didn't have anything stolen in his backpack. He had some -- basically some things that he pulled out of a trash can in his backpack. And he wasn't fighting. He was fighting for his life is what he was fighting.

He was fighting for his life. He was getting beat up by six big Fullerton cops, big guys. And I think they wanted Kelly out of there. I don't think there was any burglary that happened.

KAYE: The DA is also saying, in addition to the fact that he doesn't see any evidence that the officers intended to kill Kelly Thomas, he's also saying that he hasn't ruled out any charges against the officers. Right now, we know that all six officers are on administrative leave.

What do you think should be done here? What should be done for these officers?

BUSHALA: Well, first of all, I blame the city council. The city waited 30 days, over a month, to put these officers on paid administrative leave. I would have gotten them off the streets immediately. They need to be held accountable. And they will be held accountable.

KAYE: Do you think they should lose their jobs?

BUSHALA: Oh, most definitely, definitely. They should probably go to jail. KAYE: Well, let's see -- let's slow down and we will see what the charges are first. But you also say that you're going to get a petition going for the recall of three city council members. Why is that?

BUSHALA: That's -- well, because there's no -- first of all, the city council is not holding anybody accountable. We're all about holding people accountable.

Accountability is the most important thing in our community. And in the last six months, we -- there's been a laundry list of things -- of criminal activity, criminal behavior that's come out of the Fullerton Police Department. And one of the city councilmen, Pat McKinley, who is a retired police chief for 16 years, you know, he was running that department for 16 years.

There's been sexual battery. There's been a pill popper, a cop getting busted for popping pills, credit card theft, stealing -- iPad theft. So there's been a number of activities that have happened here in Fullerton. And we want to hold somebody accountable. That's what's going on.

KAYE: Well, we should mention that Pat McKinley, who you just mentioned there, the former Fullerton police chief and city council member now, will be joining us in just a few minutes on this show to tell us his take on this case and also respond to the comments that you have made.

Let's talk about this surveillance tape of the death of Kelly Thomas. I know that you want the -- all of the surveillance tape released. But Ron Thomas, who we spoke with, Kelly Thomas' father, doesn't want that tape released. In fact, when we interviewed him, he turned down the sound. He couldn't bear to hear his son yelling, "Dad, dad, dad."

Why is it so important, do you think, in your opinion, to have this tape released to the public?

BUSHALA: Well, transparency in government and transparency in life is -- I believe in 100 percent transparency.

And if there is a video -- there is a video camera that's owned by the city that filmed the whole event. And I believe if that video was shown, everybody out there in the community and around the world would see six cops beating up a man lying on the ground begging for his life.

I know there's riots going on in London. Perhaps the reason why they're not releasing the video is there may be riots here in Orange County and in Fullerton. And we want to see what really happened. And why they're not holding -- why the city council is not releasing it is beyond me.

Well, actually, I think -- the reason why I believe it is because they know that the truth would come out and you would see six rogue cops beating one man. I'm curious if Pat McKinley has seen that video. You should ask him that question.

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: We will ask him that question. We will ask him why the city may not be releasing the video as well in just a couple of minutes when he comes on.

Tony, thank you very much. Do keep us posted on what's happening there on the case and in the community. Thank you.

BUSHALA: You're welcome.

(CROSSTALK)

KAYE: And as I mentioned, you will hear from City Council Member and former Fullerton Police Chief Pat McKinley next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: I would like to continue the conversation about Kelly Thomas now, a California man who was homeless and schizophrenic who was allegedly beaten to death by six Fullerton police officers.

Now I want to bring in City councilman Pat McKinley.

Councilman, thank you for coming on the show. I'm sure that you heard our interview there with Tony Bushala. He's trying to get you and others recalled from the city council because you're not demanding that the security camera tape of the beating and eventual death of Kelly Thomas that exists be released to the public. What is your response to that?

PAT MCKINLEY, FULLERTON CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: Well, thank you for the question.

Number one, it can't be released, if we want to do a complete and thorough investigation. Those of us that have been in police work, myself all my life, realize that witnesses' statements oftentimes become tainted, not necessarily because they want them to, but their memories become foggy if they have seen a tape of the incident.

If they claim to have seen the incident, if they have some information for us, it's extremely important that there not be something that would taint their memory or change what they would testify to.

KAYE: Tony Bushala specifically said that the city and the police don't want to show that tape because they don't want the public to see six officers beating this man who was tied up on the ground face-down in the cement. So you're saying that that's not why?

MCKINLEY: No, certainly not.

As a matter of fact, the city council doesn't have any authority to release this tape. The tape is with the district attorney's office and with the Department of Justice. I'm sure they also have the tape. And they're reviewing it and they're making some of their investigative findings off of the tape.

Now, the district attorney has said -- and I'm quoting, I think, District Attorney Rackauckas properly -- that once the investigation is completed, then he will release the tape. The district attorney will release the tape. The city won't do it.

KAYE: Have you seen the tape yourself?

MCKINLEY: No.

KAYE: No.

Why, can you tell me -- another point that came up in this previous interview, why did the city wait 30 days to put these officers on administrative leave?

MCKINLEY: The city doesn't do that. That's a call of the chief of police. Now, I was --

KAYE: Why the wait?

MCKINLEY: -- the prior -- I -- I'm not certain of that. That question would have to be posed to the department and the chief of police.

I would guess they didn't realize the gravity of the situation. And they put the officer -- I know one officer was suspended immediately. The others were put on some kind of a desk duty until they could determine the gravity. And once the -- I'm assuming now that once the chief of police determined the gravity of the situation, then he put all of the officers on administrative leave.

You must remember that they're getting paid at this time, too. So there is a cost factor involved in this.

KAYE: In determining the gravity, though, I have to ask, what gravity is there to determine? When you look at the before-and-after photos of this man, it seems to me certainly clear at least what happened there.

But if you were -- given all your years on the Fullerton police force, if that was you, would you have waited 30 days to look at the gravity of the situation?

MCKINLEY: No.

KAYE: What do you think should happen to these six officers?

MCKINLEY: Well, they should receive due process. Don't leap to conclusions. Number one, the coroner cannot determine the cause of death, as I understand it.

Now, I have heard the district attorney say that. They cannot determine the cause of death. So -- and I can tell you this. I have had my eyes bloused a few times myself. Facial injuries are not life- threatening. Now, if there was other blows someplace else, that could be life- threatening. But -- so the pictures are tragic and look awful. But they would heal. The cause of death is yet to be determined.

KAYE: Let me ask you just because you're in a unique position. Not only are you a city council member, but you are the former Fullerton police chief.

When you hear a blow to a head with a flashlight, walk us through just briefly here, is that standard behavior for the Fullerton Police Department? I mean, there have to be -- they have to draw the line somewhere.

MCKINLEY: Certainly not. No blows to the head are taught or encouraged, or, even oftentimes, discipline is a result.

Now, when you said flashlight, I think that's a leap of faith. I don't think there's a flashlight involved here. I'm guessing, but I think it's the handle of a Taser.

KAYE: OK. But any -- still, that can't be included in standard behavior or standard department rules, am I correct, no matter what it was?

MCKINLEY: Oh, that's absolutely correct.

Matter of fact, when I was chief of police, we followed my old department, Los Angeles Police Department's lead in reducing the size of flashlights. We used to have those, which were good.

They were big and -- but we reduced those and we used a much smaller flashlight, because what happens oftentimes is, somebody is in a fight, and they have something in their hand, they're probably going to use it. And so we try to minimize the -- the impact with it.

KAYE: Do you know any of the officers involved?

MCKINLEY: Oh, I'm certain I do. I probably hired them all.

KAYE: You hired them all you think?

MCKINLEY: Well, probably.

KAYE: How do you feel then considering that officers that you hired might have been involved in this, appear to have been involved in this?

MCKINLEY: Well, I'm going to guess now. I'm going to guess that there may be two that are deeply involved. The others, I don't think the investigation will show had any culpability. When people say there were six people beating on one guy, you can't get six people around one guy. You start hitting each other. So witnesses' statements are often very flamboyant, very exaggerated. And that's why an investigation, a complete investigation, a thorough investigation is so extremely necessary. KAYE: Pat McKinley, council member there in Fullerton, California, former police chief in Fullerton, we appreciate your time and your response to our questions. Thank you very much.

MCKINLEY: Thank you for having me.

KAYE: And tomorrow, we will hear from Orange County district attorney on the investigation into the death of Kelly Thomas.

Coming up, Mexico's dead I drug wars. The CIA helping in the fight against the cartels? We dig deep to search for answers after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton minces no words when talking about Mexico's drug war. She says Americans huge appetite for drugs is what's fueling the drug gangs. But just how far should the U.S. go in helping Mexico wage war against the cartels? There are reports the CIA has become involved in covert operations across the border, and some Mexicans say that is going too far. Raphael Romo has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RAFAEL ROMO, SENIOR LATIN AMERICAN AFFAIRS EDITOR: Are CIA agents and retired military personnel secretly working in Mexico? After "The New York Times" published an article that they are posted at a military base in northern Mexico, the Mexican government felt pressure to respond. In a statement, the Mexican government admits that there is cooperation but doesn't confirm or deny American presence at military bases.

"We have developed spaces for analysis, evaluation, and exchange of intelligence information," the statement says, adding that foreign personnel in Mexico don't carry out operations, nor do they carry weapons. Opposition leaders say it's important to remember that Mexican law prohibits operations by foreign police or military personnel on Mexican soil.

ARTURO SANTANA ALFARO, MEXICAN OPPOSITION CONGRESSMAN (via translator): I believe that it's important to sign cooperation agreements, but there has to be restrictions. There has to be clear rules in how we carry out these agreements, and I don't think that has been the case. It appears to me "The New York Times" has revealed a reality that we already suspected.

ROMO: A top Mexican official said in July that the arrests of a reputed mercenary for a Juarez Cartel was made thanks to the exchange of information between the U.S. drug enforcement administration and the Mexican federal police. Top officials on both sides of the border say Mexico and the United States have to work together against drug cartels and organized crimes.

ARTURO SARUKHAN, MEXICAN AMBASSADOR TO U.S.: As most things in life, you need two to tango. And as Mexico seeks to shut down the flow of drugs coming into the United States from Mexico, we need the support of the United States to shut down the flow of weapons and cash.

HILLARY CLINTON, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Obviously our demand for drugs is what motivates these drug gangs. I mean, if they didn't think they were going to make a bunch of money across the border, they would go into another line of work. And so we do share responsibility for the security challenges facing the Mexican people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAYE: And Raphael Romo joins us now in studio to talk a little bit more about this. The law enforcement ties between the U.S. and Mexico haven't always been easy.

ROMO: That's right. On the one hand, Mexican sovereignty laws are very strict. Foreign personnel, military police agents are not allowed to carry weapons or operate in Mexico.

On the other hand, there's a lot of mistrust on the part of American agencies because of corruption in Mexico. It has been well- known that cartels have infiltrated Mexican agencies. So there's that element of distrust.

And there was one operation, failed operation called Fast and Furious by which the ATF allowed the legal sale of weapons in America to Mexico, and that created a lot of animosity between the two countries. But quickly they decided to work on it because definitely one country needs the other to fight against the common problem, which is drug trafficking.

KAYE: Yes, if they're going to make progress at all. Raphael, appreciate it.

Before you press the "send" key, we need to warn you about e- mails that could get you fired. That's just ahead.

But first, magicians use magic hats to pull objects out of thin air. But a new invention could give everyone a similar power. Gary Tuchman has this "technovation."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Imagine shopping on- line. Seeing something you like and then just printing it out. It might sound crazy. But a new invention called the "makerbot" could change the way you think.

BRE PETTIS, INVENTOR, MAKERBOT: Normally when you need something, you think where will I shop for it? When you have a makerbot, you think maybe I'll make it myself.

TUCHMAN: It's a personal 3D printer that makes three dimensional objects.

PETTIS: You can make anything. Your imagination can go wild. TUCHMAN: Objects are made by melting plastic into thin spaghetti-like strings. Then layer by layer, it's built into the desired object, like this comb.

PETTIS: People don't like to cook, make spatulas. Coat hooks, replacement parts. It's really limitless what you can do with it.

TUCHMAN: You can create your own designs or download others created by users around the world.

PETTIS: You can get the teleportation like that, like physical objects over the internet.

TUCHMAN: Turning visions into reality.

Gary Tuchman, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Has this ever happened to you? You write an e-mail about someone at the office, but, oops, you send it to that person by mistake? Yikes. Usually it's just embarrassing. Depending on the circumstances, it could get you fired. Misdirected e-mail is a well- known danger, but there are other subtle e-mail mistakes that could jeopardize your job too.

Etiquette expert Jacqueline Whitmore wrote about email in her book "Business Class, Etiquette Essentials for Success at Work." I want to share top 10 tips in today's "Taking the Lead." First of all, don't be too casual. Treat e-mails like business letters and don't address the recipient by his or her first name unless they used it to sign an email to you. Don't write in capital letters. It's considered cyber shouting. Nobody likes to be shouted at. Proofread your e-mail before you send it out. Grammar, spelling, punctuation errors reflect badly on you. Don't be a pest. Don't send the same email over and over. Try sending a new e-mail explaining why you're following up, or if time is an issue, call the person on the phone.

Avoid the "reply all" button. Use only when it's crucial to inform everybody on the distribution list. Don't overload people with e-mail they don't want or need. Consider using the BCC or blind carbon copy function. Some may want their e-mail addresses private.

Remember the e-mail is never private. It can be duplicated, forwarded and printed if you don't want it to become the talk of the company, don't send it. Ask permission before you send an attachment. Some companies have policies about opening attachments, and some people may want attachments sent separately so it doesn't slow down their mail.

Think twice about sending humorous messages. What's funny to you may be insulting to someone else.

And maybe most importantly, never, never send e-mail when you're angry. Cool down, take a breath, reread it before you hit "send." Remember that even relatively mild e-mail messages can be misconstrued because people on the receiving end can't hear your tone of voice or see your facial expressions. Good tips.

Coming up, should same sex marriage be federally recognized? What if it's a matter of life and death? We'll explain, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: Take a look here. These are pictures of my next guest, Anthony Makk and his husband, Bradford Wells, getting married seven years ago in Massachusetts. The two have lived together for 19 years. But Anthony, who you see there on the right in these pictures, faces deportation back to his native Australia because the federal government, the U.S. federal government, refuses to recognize his marriage to another man.

That's right, according to the Defense of Marriage Act, immigration benefits only apply to married men and women. Although legally married, Anthony needs to leave the country in just 15 days. But the story doesn't end there. Bradford suffers from advanced AIDS. If his husband is deported, he loses his caregiver, the man who has been his lifesaver. If they choose to go to Australia together, Bradford may have to give up his medical coverage given his preexisting condition.

When asked about the denial on Anthony's residency, the U.S. citizenship and immigration services told CNN affiliate KDVU "Pursuant to the attorney general's guidance, the Defense of Marriage Act remains in effect and the executive branch including DHS will continues to enforce it unless and until Congress repeals or there's a final judicial determination that it is unconstitutional."

The two join me now from San Francisco. Thank you so much for coming on the show. We're sorry to hear what you're both going through here. First quickly, Bradford, tell us how the two of you met and how you made the decision to get married?

BRADFORD WELLS, HUSBAND FACING DEPORTATION: We met in Sidney. I was on vacation. I met Anthony. We hit it of pretty well. We've been together pretty much ever since then. And we decided to get married. We're in Massachusetts when they decided that -- to legalize same sex marriage. And I had always -- I didn't have very much respect for marriage until I realized that I could get married. That changed everything. I asked Anthony to marry me and two months later we got married.

ANTHONY JOHN MAKK, SICK HUSBAND'S CAREGIVER: That was seven years ago now.

WELLS: Seven years ago, yes.

KAYE: And Anthony, when did you learn that you first could get deported?

MAKK: I learned of the denial last week that they refused the application, or denied the application for spousal immigration. But we've been working on it for many months now knowing that this day could possibly come.

KAYE: And how big of a blow was that?

MAKK: It was quite devastating. We spent all of our time together. We're very much in love. We're very married. We're very committed in our relationship. And so the thought of being separated and then not being able to come back to see him and then having to move and sell all of our things and move to Australia, it's quite daunting, quite a daunting task for us.

KAYE: Bradford, if you could, help me understand your typical day and how much Anthony helps you and participates in your care giving.

WELLS: Typical day, some mornings I need help from him just getting out of bed. Some mornings I don't. But he's with all day. He carries everything for me. He lifts things. He makes life easier for me. He does what he can, keeps my house clean, looks after me, reminds me for taking medications, helps me cook. I like to do as much as I can, but he helps me out with a lot of the things that are strenuous.

KAYE: How will you handle it if he gets deported, knowing that you have this disease? You're in a weakened state. How will you handle it?

WELLS: I have no idea. He's my only caregiver. There's no one else out here. If he's gone, I'm alone. My family is scattered throughout the rest of the country. If he leaves, I'm going to be here alone and I don't know how I'm going to handle it.

KAYE: Anthony, why not take Bradford with you to Australia?

MAKK: Because of Brad's medical condition, all his support, his doctors, and everything is set here, his health insurance. Coming to Australia means moving all of that, all of that support and everything that's already set up here. And it's not practical. But if it must be, then we surely would have to look at this. But we are hoping that someone will step in and something will be done about the Defense of Marriage act so we can remain together.

KAYE: Anthony, one more follow-up. Other than being a same sex couple, have you two not fulfilled the visa requirements?

MAKK: We fulfilled all of the requirements except where we're a same sex couple.

WELLS: We have been very careful to make sure that Anthony has upheld condition of every visa he's had. He's not been here illegally once. He has not engaged in any illegal activity. He's not done things contrary to his visa. If there's a path to him being here by doing the right thing, he's done the right thing. The entire time of our relationship he has been within the law. We've never been here against or contrary to any of his visas or illegally. KAYE: In the fight to try and turn this around, we know that Nancy Pelosi is certainly trying to help you. Her office issued a statement through her spokesman. I can read it to you. "She will be working to exhaust all appropriate immigration remedies that are currently open to pursue." Is that enough for you, though? What would you like to say to the people that are still holding up the Defense of Marriage act?

WELLS: I would like someone to try and uphold the constitution of the United States. I would like equal treatment. I want my marriage to be recognized just like every other marriage in this country is recognized. I have a legal marriage. I'm just hoping that someone will step in, uphold the constitution, and hold off on issuing a deportation order against my husband. There's no reason --

MAKK: It's clear discrimination.

WELLS: There's no reason why he can't be here. He qualifies under everything we're asking people to emigrate here for. He doesn't hold a job, he has a business, he employs people. There's no reason for him to be deported. It benefits no one.

KAYE: As you said, Bradford, you live here, you pay taxes, yet you don't have a right to share your home with the man you love, your husband. Anthony, as you look at the calendar and the days tick down, what are you doing right now to try and stay here?

MAKK: We are trying our -- lawyers at immigration equality are trying everything possible and looking at several different avenues for appeal against the decision. So we're also looking to the government or to some senators to back us. So in the 15 days that I have left, something will happen.

WELLS: He's the optimistic one. He's the one that holds out the most hope. I'm the more nervous one.

KAYE: Let's call it nervous optimism and we will see what happens. Bradford Wells, Anthony Makk, we certainly appreciate you sharing your story. We wish you well. Not only in this fight, but Bradford in your personal fight as well. Thank you both.

WELLS: Thank you.

MAKK: Thank you for your time.

KAYE: Americans are not too happy with Democrats or Republicans right now, but which one do they have a lower opinion of? We'll have the details for you right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KAYE: New polling shows that Americans do not have a favorable opinion of either Democrats or Republicans right now. CNN's senior political editor Mark Preston joins us from the political desk in Washington. Mark, I can't say I'm surprised. But what does the polling say? MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL EDITOR: Randi, there's an old saying that the numbers really speak to the truth. Let's look at the CNN-ORC numbers that have been released in the last 24 hours. It speaks to the fact that Americans are frustrated with what's going on in Washington.

Let's look at the numbers -- 59 percent unfavorable rating for Republicans at this point. This is an all-time low. Democrats aren't faring that much better. They're unfavorable rating is 47 percent. Randi, we're about 15 months before the next election. It looks like right now that if things were held today, the election held today, it would be an anti-incumbent election. So not only would see Republicans losing, we'd be seeing Democrats losing their seats Randi.

KAYE: And how do Americans feel about the Tea Party?

PRESTON: We talked a lot about their influence on the Republican Party. And surely, they do have a lot of influence. But overall, the Americans do not have a high opinion of the Tea Party. Let's look at the numbers. Their favorable rating is only 31 percent. We asked the same question back in July and the favorable rating was 37 percent. So we've seen a six-point drop in the past month.

I think this really speaks to the fact that Americans are frustrated because they think that not only is Washington being torn apart and very divisive, you're also seeing that across the nation. Clearly, some people think or a lot of Americans think that the Tea Party is a divisive movement at this point, Randi.

KAYE: All right, Mark Preston on the political desk with an interesting poll numbers. Thank you very much.

That will do it for me. I hope you have a great afternoon. CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Brooke Baldwin.