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Mississippi Judge Halts Haley Barbour's Pardons; Raising Campaign Cash; Chaos in Syria; World's Smallest Vertebrate Found; Lawsuit in Alleged Hazing Death; Kids Required To Step On Scale; Talk Back Question; Inside "Anonymous"

Aired January 12, 2012 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

Want to get you up to speed.

Mississippi's attorney general is slamming former governor Haley Barbour for pardoning 199 convicts including 14 murderers. At least four of the killers are already out of prison. The AG says that Barbour violated the state constitution because many of the pardoned requests were not published 30 days before they were granted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIM HOOD, MISSISSIPPI ATTORNEY GENERAL: Former Governor Barbour, he kind of ran the state and the governor's office like Boss Hogg. I mean, he didn't follow the law.

This is a very simple constitutional provision, and Governor Barbour just didn't even follow it. I mean, it was very clear that he had to have this information. He didn't obtain it before he signed these pardons, and that has caused public safety issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: A judge has issued a temporary injunction, stopping the release of any more prisoners that the governor pardoned, and those already set free, they have to check in daily with prison officials. We'll see how that goes.

Take a look severe storm damage in Burke County, North Carolina. Strong winds, possibly a tornado, ripping the roofs off houses, creating a vast debris field. Police report several injuries but no deaths. Now, if this is a confirmed tornado, the National Weather Service says it's rare for this area, as well as this time of year.

A lot is happening on the campaign trail this hour. Most of it taking place in South Carolina.

That is where Republicans are slugging against front-runner Mitt Romney. The state's primary just nine days away.

Now, several of the candidates have campaign stops in South Carolina. This hour, we are talking about Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich, Rick Santorum, all holding events there. Romney campaigns in Florida after an earlier stop in South Carolina.

More violence out of Syria. A bomb ripping through the streets of Homs, and a French reporter was killed in the blast. He is the first Western journalist to die in Syria since the unrest started there almost a year ago. Now, the government is blaming terrorists for the attack, but the protesters say the state is responsible for the bloodshed.

Our Nic Robertson, he's going to have the latest out of Syria.

And a judge in Alabama will consider a request today to have Natalee Holloway formally declared dead. The 18-year-old disappeared while on a trip in Aruba. That was back in 2005, you may recall.

Well, Natalee Holloway's father filed a petition to have her declared dead, he says, to seek closure for the family. The main suspect in her disappearance -- that is Dutch national Joran van der Sloot -- pleaded guilty yesterday to murdering another woman in Peru.

People in Nome, Alaska, anxiously awaiting a shipment of fuel oil. Now, the Coast Guard icebreaker, it's cutting this path through the frozen Bering Sea to make way for this tanker. It's carrying more than a million gallons of fuel. It could arrive today. This is the first time that a ship has tried to resupply the city over the frozen sea in the winter.

I want to zero in on what is being done about these shocking pardons in Mississippi. Former governor Haley Barbour's decision to wipe clean the records of almost 200 convicts as he leaves office, well, this is now a legal issue.

A judge has blocked any more prisoners from being released, and those set free have to check in daily with prison officials. So, the bottom line is, authorities are trying to decide if the former governor violated the state's constitution.

I want to bring in our legal contributor, Paul Callan, who joins us from New York.

First of all, Paul, I don't really get this part about, like, the convicts. They have to check in to the authorities. I don't suppose you're going to have convicts checking in and coming back after they've been freed.

Does that sound realistic to you at all?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL CONTRIBUTOR: No, it doesn't sound realistic at all. I mean, ,once they get handed a pardon which says, hey, you're forgiven, go your way, do what you like, I think it's going to be very hard to get them to check back in.

Now, of course, it's a different issue as to whether the pardon eventually gets revoked. Maybe then they would have to check in. Maybe then they'll be put back in jail. But at least for now, I think very hard, Suzanne, to get them to come back.

MALVEAUX: Do we have any idea where these murderers are? I mean, are they trying in any kind of aggressive way to go find these guys?

CALLAN: Well, I have no doubt that since there's a proceeding that's been brought by the attorney general before Judge Tomie Green to try to avoid all of these pardons, that Mississippi law enforcement officials will be keeping tabs on these guys. But, frankly, if somebody jumps on a Greyhound bus and goes to Chicago, I don't know how they will be tracked. So this is not an easy thing, to find the people who have been released.

MALVEAUX: And, Paul, speaking legally here, so if a convict is captured, can he make the case that, I've been pardoned under Mississippi's constitution, my rights are being violated here, I'm not going back to jail?

CALLAN: Well, I can tell you, Suzanne, there will be a heated legal argument about this in court. The prisoners who have been released will undoubtedly say, hey, the state of Mississippi released us, the governor issued an official pardon, you don't have the right to take it back.

Now, Attorney General Hood in Mississippi is saying that there was a requirement that publication in the newspaper where the convict was convicted was required for 30 days in advance of the pardon, and he thinks maybe that wasn't done in a lot of these cases. Now, that's a requirement under the Mississippi constitution, and the prisoner is responsible for the publication.

So there are some strong arguments that these pardons could be illegal if the publication didn't occur, which, by the way, we don't know yet. There's no proof one way or another on that. So we have to see.

MALVEAUX: Paul, what can these communities or people do to protect themselves from these convicts who might have a beef, a score to settle, who might be looking to finish what they started?

CALLAN: Well, you know, that's a really tough question, Suzanne. I really don't know what they can do.

I mean, obviously, police departments in the areas where they live should be on notice. And -- but beyond that, once a pardon is issued, the convict can travel and go wherever he likes.

And the only thing they can hope is that Governor Barbour was right in determining that these were people deserving of pardons. And frankly, you would have to look at all of the facts of all the individual cases to determine whether it was a justifiable or unjustifiable pardon. But I know people whose families were murder victims are very, very upset and very, very afraid. This is a terrible situation in Mississippi.

MALVEAUX: All right. We're going to see how all of this plays out.

Paul Callan.

Thank you so much, Paul.

CALLAN: Nice being with you, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Here's your chance to "Talk Back" on one of the stories of the day. Our question: Should schools track children's body fat?

Now, right now, in the gyms of more than a dozen states, kids are being weighed, and their body fat is being calculated. Notes are being sent home to the parents.

Now, what is the reason for all of this? Well, obviously to combat childhood obesity. But when parents were surveyed, more than 80 percent of them said that their children were in good shape. But the reality is more than 30 percent of American children are overweight.

While a reality check might be needed, some critics are afraid that weighing kids and checking their body fat at school could be humiliating.

So, we would like the hear from you. What do you think? Should schools track children's body fat?

Leave responses at Facebook.com/SuzanneCNN. We're going to have some of your responses later in the hour.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: All right. We are keeping our eye on four different Republican campaign events here. And I want you to take a look at your screen here, all four of them.

You've got Newt Gingrich. He's in Columbia, South Carolina. It is a Palmetto Senior Show. He's going to be making brief remarks there.

And you've got Rick Perry in Orangeburg, South Carolina, at Duke's Barbecue Meet and Greet. He's supposed to speak as well.

Then you've got Santorum. He is in Hilton Head, South Carolina, at a campaign rally.

And then, also, Mitt Romney. He's in West Palm Beach, Florida, at a grassroots rally.

We're going to keep our eye on all of these different events and dip in from time to time and see what the candidates have to say.

And of course to play in the political big leagues, you've got to have big bucks, right? As the race to the White House is heating up, every candidate is looking for some more cash.

Well, our Jessica Yellin, she's joining us from the White House.

And Jessica, no one questions President Obama's ability to bring it when it comes to raising campaign cash. When you and I covered the election in 2008, he blew everyone out of the water, right, raised more than $750 million? They boasted that it might hit a billion this time.

How's he doing?

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're now denying that that was ever said and that this is not a billion- dollar campaign. And we can talk about that in a minute, Suzanne.

But first, to the news. Today they've announced their haul for the fourth quarter. We can put up the numbers.

They say they've raised $66 million in the last quarter of the year, and that brings their total to $222 million raised for the Obama campaign and the larger organization, the Obama Victory Fund. That's a lot of money, and they're emphasizing that they got a lot of that from small donors, as well as big donors. We can break that down a little bit if you want to -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: And Jessica, I assume that there's probably a downside to raising a crazy amount of cash here in a bad economy. It just might not look good.

Are they worried about that?

YELLIN: Well, part of the reason that they are emphasizing that they are so heavily in the grassroots community is because of just what you mentioned. I mean, one of the themes they hit heavy on when they announced this via video to their donors this morning was that 98 percent of their donations have come in the amount of $250 or less.

Now, let's keep in mind that the president is doing his share of major donor events, where people can give $38,500. But they are trying to draw a stark contrast between their claim that Republicans are going to get a lot of money from corporate donors and big money people and that they are doing grassroots, $$, $3, $5 donations -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Well, let's talk a little bit about the competition here.

Mitt Romney, no slouch when it comes to raising funds. His war chest, what is it looking like now?

YELLIN: We've got a graphic for that, too. Let's put that up, if you will.

Mitt Romney has raised so far $56 million. Ron Paul, $26 million. Newt Gingrich, $12 million. And that's, from Romney, pretty impressive, especially. They are all big numbers. Ron Paul, too, and Gingrich just got another $5 million in the form of his super PAC.

None of this money includes the outside spending cash we all talk about, super PACs, that comes separately. And this is all money that those guys have to spend up front in the primaries. Remember, because President Obama does not have a primary opponent, he can hold on to his money and save it for the general election -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right. It's all about the money, the big money. Thank you, Jessica. After months of bloodshed, the violence in Syria shows no signs of ending anytime soon. Our Nic Robertson, he is there live as this country unravels.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The level of anger and passion here is absolutely palpable. We are just a few miles from the center of Damascus, and this is a crowd here of perhaps -- thank you. Thank you. This is a crowd here of perhaps several thousand people.

They've taken over this whole area. They've put rocks in the road to prevent the police coming in here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: More violence out of Syria. A bomb ripped through the streets of Homs and a French reporter was killed in the blast. He is the first Western journalist to die in Syria since the unrest started there almost a year ago. Now, the government is blaming terrorists for the attack, but protesters say the state is responsible.

It has been months of violence. Thousands are dead, and now the country is at a crossroads.

Our Nic Robertson, he is in Syria watching this unravel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): A body carried high. A sister uncontrollable with grief. This is an anti-government rally barely 15 minutes from Syria's capital. They've come to bury a 32-year-old man they say was killed by pro-government gunmen.

(on camera): The level of anger and passion here is absolutely palpable. We're just a few miles from the center of Damascus, and this is a crowd here of perhaps -- thank you. Thank you. This is a crowd here of perhaps several thousand people.

They've taken over this whole area. They've put rocks in the road to prevent the police coming in here.

(voice-over): It is a rare opportunity to meet the people who want to overthrow Syrian president Bashar al-Assad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The situation is very bad. We only want to be like you, like the Western people. We want to be freedom. We want to be free people.

Look at him. Thirty-two years, only because he said, "Allahu Akbar." Do you know "Allahu Akbar"?

ROBERTSON (on camera): Who killed him? Who's responsible? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The government is responsible. Bashar al-Assad is responsible. Bashar al-Assad is killing us only because we want freedom like you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm afraid when I'm talking to you right now. Why? Because I'm (INAUDIBLE) and going to my home. And I'm not 100 percent sure that I'm going to be safe, because if not today, if not tomorrow, they will arrest me.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Their defiance possible because two orange- jacketed Arab League monitors are here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you are here without them, you don't -- you are never going to see any protester.

ROBERTSON: Even so, protesters told us they didn't trust the Arab League mission.

(on camera): The monitors tell us this is one of the most difficult and dangerous situations for them. People are angry. The crowd is volatile. Everyone wants to talk to them, and the monitors say the most important thing that they can do at this time is be neutral, is take down all the information, and show that they are completely impartial.

(voice-over): Everyone here has something to say. Many push forward to show injuries they say were inflicted by government forces.

(on camera): They're absolutely desperate to show us the level of suffering, and they say they can't go to the hospitals, because if they do, the government hospitals, they fear being arrested. Some of the injuries we're seeing here seems to show signs that they're not being treated as well as they could be.

(voice-over): When the monitors leave, so do we. Within minutes, they are stopped.

(on camera): We're barely half a mile from that anti-government rally, and here there are pro-government supporters now blocking the road, a small group trying to show the monitors their support for Bashar al-Assad. This appears to be an impromptu demonstration, but it's surprising, because, really, they knew this was the way the monitors were going to come.

(voice-over): And it's not the only pro-government rally in town. At least two others.

Here, a huge PA system blasts the president message. Government troops dancing with the crowds.

(on camera): The most striking difference between this pro-government rally and the opposition rallies that we've seen, here it's a celebration, it's a carnival atmosphere. At the opposition rallies, there is absolute real fear in people's eyes. They're terrified of their situation.

(voice-over): Here, they say they trust the president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bashar al-Assad is a good man, but if you want to see, you can see. That's real here.

ROBERTSON: And they believe the government line that opposition is fabricated.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's not a legal opposition.

ROBERTSON (on camera): What is it?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This opposition is not legal.

ROBERTSON: It's not real?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Legal or real.

ROBERTSON: Legal.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not for real.

ROBERTSON: How do you mean not legal or real?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think that (INAUDIBLE).

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Few here will talk about the danger of Syria imploding into sectarian chaos. This American woman and her Syrian husband an exception.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The president was forced to go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will be big, big chaos. His security here --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he's a people president. He likes all religions to get along. He's a peaceful man.

ROBERTSON: So now Assad remains in control for the most part, but it's hard to imagine his supporters and opponents can be kept apart much longer.

Nic Robertson, CNN, Damascus, Syria.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: President Obama took more than two-thirds of the Latino vote in 2008. Can he hold on to his support this time around? I'm going to talk with a Latino syndicated columnist about how the Hispanic vote is shaping up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: All right. So we're keeping our eye on four different events. There are four different campaign events that are happening at this hour.

You've got Rick Perry in Orangeburg, South Carolina. You've got Rick Santorum in Hilton Head, South Carolina. Mitt Romney, he's in West Palm Beach, Florida. And Newt Gingrich, who is in Columbia, South Carolina.

I want to go to Joe Johns, because Joe is in South Carolina with Newt Gingrich.

This is a turning point in this campaign because this could be a political brawl. It is getting pretty darned ugly there.

Tell us why.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot of reasons why, because there are some questions as to whether candidates are going to have to get out of the race if they don't have a good showing here, quite frankly, Suzanne.

This is the lawn of the South Carolina state capitol in Columbia. We're waiting for former Speaker Newt Gingrich to appear here, along with former Republican congressman J.C. Watts. He represented Oklahoma back in the day. A housing event here.

Meanwhile, the big controversy right now in South Carolina is about the questions Newt Gingrich continues to raise about Mitt Romney and his days at Bain Capital, whether he was a layoff specialist gutting companies in his role as a venture capitalist, if you will. It's really a proxy debate over the merits of free market capitalism.

Newt Gingrich defended himself in an interview with Piers Morgan. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: -- concede that every effort I made to stay positive, and every effort I made to talk Romney out of doing this failed. That you can't unilaterally disarm unless you want to get out of the race. And since this is the objective reality, we have no choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNS: So, Suzanne, that's sort of the center of this entire controversy. Some Republicans are saying it's a bad idea to talk about this because it only weakens the presumptive front-runner in the Republican race for president. There are others who have a completely different school of thought that says, look, this is the kind of issue that you have to talk about, you have to debate, find out how Romney can handle it, because at the end of the day, it will come up if he's the nominee and he has to face Democratic President Obama.

So we continue to wait for Newt Gingrich. Not quite here yet, and we'll tell you when he gets here -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right. I understand he's actually started speaking inside. So let's take a quick listen. Let's see what he's saying.

(BEGIN LIVE SPEECH) (JOINED IN PROGRESS)

GINGRICH: When I became Speaker, there had been two tax increases and the economy slowed down, so we brought out the Reagan playbook. And we passed lower taxes, less regulation, more American energy, and the result was we created 11 million new jobs in four years.

So we know how to do this. And creating new jobs is the best step towards a balanced budget because you take people off of welfare, off of food stamps, off of unemployment, off of public housing, off of Medicaid, you put them to work where they are paying for their family and they are paying taxes.

So you reduce government spending every time somebody leaves to go to work and you increase government revenue every time somebody gets a job. And that's why as Speaker, I was able to help balance the budget for four consecutive years, paying off $405 billion in federal debt, the only time in your lifetime that we had four straight years of a balanced budget.

(END LIVE SPEECH)

MALVEAUX: All right. You've been listening to Newt Gingrich making his case there.

While attack ads are filling the airwaves in South Carolina, Mitt Romney, he is making an appeal to Hispanic voters in Florida. Romney's campaign is out with a Spanish language ad promoting his credentials as a businessman.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in Spanish).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: That is actually the voice of Romney's son, Craig, in his ad, also featured well-known Florida lawmakers. Florida, holding its primary January 31st. So Latino voters play a major role in politics as well as the presidential race we know. Back in 2008, they made up of 9 percent of the electorate, according to the Pew Hispanic Center study.

Now Latinos voted for President Obama and the Democrats by a two- to-one margin back in 2008. President Obama picked up 67 percent of Latino vote, compared to 31 percent for John McCain. Joining us to talk about the Hispanic vote, how it's shaping up in 2012, Ruben Navarrette. He's a contributor to cnn.com, a nationally syndicated columnist and a friend from college.

So, Ruben, good to see you here. I've got to call you out.

RUBEN NAVARRETTE, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I thought you'd bring that up. MALVEAUX: Oh, you know what? Why not. But I got to call you out on this.

NAVARRETTE: Hey, great to see you.

MALVEAUX: It's good to see you. I want to call you out on this op-ed this morning on cnn.com. It's very funny. You start by exclaiming, "Primo," right, Spanish for cousin. And you claim that if Mitt Romney is elected, could not only become the first Mormon president, but the first Hispanic president? Explain, Ruben.

NAVARRETTE: Right. I'd better explain that, right, Suzanne?

MALVEAUX: Yes.

NAVARRETTE: Mitt Romney's father, George Romney, was born in Mexico. His great-grandfather, Miles Park Romney, took the family down to Mexico. He never became a Mexican citizen, neither did his son, Gaskell Romney, and neither did George Romney. And George Romney then he came back with his -- as a child, with his family to the United States around 1912, and became a U.S. citizen.

Eventually as we now know, George Romney went on to become governor of Michigan, ran for president in 1968. Mitt Romney's father was born in Mexico. Just like my grandfather was born in Mexico. In fact, they were born in the same state of Chihuahua, Mexico. And so I think, just logically, it makes sense to say that Romney is -- he's half Mexican. His father is Mexican, his (inaudible) American.

MALVEAUX: All right. We're going to run that by the Romney folks, see what they got to say. In all seriousness here, President Obama, back in 2008, he won the Hispanic vote by more than a 2:1 margin. How do the Republicans -- how do they make headway? What do they need to do to win that group over this time around?

NAVARRETTE: It's a really good question, Suzanne. There's a debate going on in the Republican Party about the depth of the problem. Some people think that it's just a question of a nip and tuck here and there, that it's cosmetic and they just need a good publicist.

I don't believe that. I believe that they are inherited by the spirit that leads them to be xenophobic at times, to preach to some racists in their base, frankly, and to propose things like simple solutions to break complicated problems and to just mess up the debate over immigration in general.

I think they don't need a publicist. I think they need an exorcist. I think there's a lot more that the Republican Party needs to fix there than just the cosmetic things. And so that's really the nature of the debate. But if the Republican Party is serious about this, they've got to stop making immigrants, illegal and otherwise, the convenient villain for their narrative.

MALVEAUX: Well, let's talk a little bit about that, because in the op-ed, you point to Romney's attacks on other candidates on the issue of immigration. How important is that and how is that playing out in the Republican race for Hispanics?

NAVARRETTE: It's pretty important for Hispanics this time around. It fluctuates a little bit. If the water is calm -- this is the way we need to understand it. If the water's calm and nobody's talking about immigration, it's not a big issue, it falls to the bottom. It's not a top issue. It's not like the economy and jobs and education and other issues that typically are important to Hispanics.

But when it flares up, as it did recently in Arizona, last year in Arizona, then it becomes a really big issue. It goes to the top of the list. And so, in that regard, Hispanics do pay particular attention to candidates and their views on immigration.

And where I think candidates have really gone astray with the Latino community and disappointed them is oftentimes they have this caricature of immigrants as being takers.

Even Mitt Romney made it seem as if illegal immigrants were coming into Texas to benefit from going to college with in-state tuition, thanks to Governor Perry. And it portrayed immigrants as takers, as someone who don't -- people who don't give back to the community and to the economy, and that is certainly not true.

MALVEAUX: All right, Ruben, good to see you. Going to have to leave it there. Thank you.

NAVARRETTE: Good to see you.

MALVEAUX: So what's worse? Letting kids face the health risk of being overweight on their own or taking away their privacy? If you're a parent, you're going to want to stick around for this next report.

But, first, a guy who believes that the key to world peace is the ukulele. He's featured on the next episode of "THE NEXT LIST" and if they can only figure out how to say his name.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SHIMABUKURO, UKULELE VIRTUOSO: My name is Jake Shimabukuro. I'm a ukulele player. Shimabukuro. Yes, I've had moments where, you know, the emcee of the show, we'll be backstage and just, you know, seconds before he's about to go on and introduce me, he'll be like, OK, Jake. I'm sorry.

One more time, how do you say your last name? And so I'll be like, oh, Shimabukuro. And they're like, "OK, Shimabukuro, Shimabukuro, Shimabukuro. All right. I got it. OK."

And then they'll go out there, "Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome Jack Shimabukuro." And they'll be smiling. They're, yes, they'll come offstage, "I got it, I got it."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so, news, not just about events that shape our lives, sometimes it focuses on the rare, obscure, the bizarre. So we found all three in New Guinea, the Earth's smallest vertebrate. It's our guilty pleasure today. And, Chad. OK. So it fits on this dime, right?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It does.

MALVEAUX: The smallest vertebrate. What are we talking about?

MYERS: I can do better than that. It will fit on the dime. But it will also hang 10 in a river on a Sudafed (ph). So that's the frog on a dime, seven and something millimeters across, the lightest, smallest vertebrate ever found. That's (inaudible) --

(CROSSTALK)

MALVEAUX: There you go.

MYERS: There's my little Sudafed (ph). Awesome. Anyway, they found in New Guinea. They found it hiding in leaves.

They found in very wet leaves, because they believe that if the sun would hit this thing, the sun would actually dry this frog up, because there's so much surface area but so little part of the frog that's inside, that this has to live in very wet climates, and it's living inside these layers and layers of like molting and composting mulch.

MALVEAUX: And what can you learn from this little tiny, tiny frog?

MYERS: It tells us a couple things, that we know that water is the basis of life. But if water can live -- and these little things can live in this little bit of water, covered by the leaves, because of the water, because of the moisture, the humidity that's in this little area here in Papua, New Guinea, that life can be anywhere as long as there's water.

MALVEAUX: It's just in New Guinea or possibly elsewhere, but that's the only place -- ?

MYERS: Well, whoever lifts up all of these leaves looking for little frogs, that's where they did it. That's where they found the little guy.

MALVEAUX: Well, we might find one in our backyard.

MYERS: Yes, you might.

MALVEAUX: All right. Can I have my dime back?

MYERS: Sure. That's my dime, anyway.

MALVEAUX: That's your dime. All right. OK. I owe you. Thanks, Chad. MYERS: Sure.

MALVEAUX: Well, forcing kids to step on the scale in school is a controversial new tool to fight obesity.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: There are more questions than answers still in the beating death of Florida's A&M drum major Robert Champion. But we are hearing now from the man who owns the bus on which Champion died. The bus owner is being sued by Champion's parents. Our George Howell has the details.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't know if he's breathing or not, but we need to get an ambulance ASAP.

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN REPORTER (voice-over): Severely beaten, killed on this tour bus, 26-year-old Florida A&M drum major Robert Champion died after an alleged hazing incident nearly two months ago. And now his parents' attorney says they are taking legal action, suing the bus company.

CHRISTOPHER CHESTNUT, CHAMPION FAMILY ATTORNEY: We want to know what bus employee was assigned to this bus, how did the students get on, how did the bus get turned on, how was the air conditioner on, how were they able to stay on the bus long enough to beat Robert Champion to death.

HOWELL (voice-over): For Pam and Robert Champion, the impending lawsuit is their first step toward getting some answers.

PAM CHAMPION, ROBERT CHAMPION'S MOTHER: Let me make it personal. My son, what was done to my son was wrong. It was brutal. He had nobody that would help him.

RAY LAND, PRESIDENT, FABULOUS COACH LINES: We take our responsibility towards safety very seriously. That is the number one paramount thing that we provide.

HOWELL (voice-over): The president of Florida-based Fabulous Coach Lines, Ray Land, says he never saw this coming. And though he admits the bus was parked and running while the driver had stepped away --

LAND: We cannot monitor our individual passengers, especially whenever they are part of a preformed group. It is the responsibility of the chartering party that has a contract with us. And we've lived up to that contract.

HOWELL: So where does your responsibility begin and end when you take these big groups on the road?

LAND: Ultimately we feel that our liability begins whenever we pick up our passengers at the first designation, and ends whenever we arrive at the destination wherever they are traveling to.

HOWELL (voice-over): But a case like this may be more complicated than meets the eye, says CNN legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: The bus company, like any company, has to show that it was operated with reasonable care. And that has to apply when the bus is stopped, as well as when the bus is moving.

HOWELL: But Champion's attorney also announced they plan to sue FAMU for wrongful death and general negligence. But in this case, they'll have to wait six months after putting the school on notice because, under Florida law, universities are protected from being sued under sovereign immunity. As for the bus company, there are no such protections.

HOWELL (on camera): To own and operate a fleet of buses like this, Fabulous Coach Lines maintains a high insurance limit. And Ray Land believes that is the reason his business is being targeted. He believes the lawsuit is misguided.

RAY LAND, PRESIDENT, FABULOUS COACH LINES: I understand their mission is to end hazing. Suing my company is not going to end hazing. It's not going to do anything to affect hazing.

HOWELL (voice-over): George Howell, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: It's a faceless group of hackers who have attacked everyone from the big banks to world governments. We're going to take a look behind the masks of Anonymous.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: We've got an update on that story we've been following out of Mississippi. The former governor, Haley Barbour, having pardoned about 199 convicts. Many of them on the loose now. And the political uproar that has occurred in that state as a result.

The attorney general, Jim Hood, is telling our Martin Savidge exclusively here that of these individuals who are loose, the four murders who got a lot of attention for being on the former governor's detail, he says we have no idea where they are. He also tells our Martin Savidge that these four men have hit the road running. He says that the state may have to issue a nationwide fugitive manhunt to find these guys. But, he says, none of the court orders have been served, no warrants can be issued because no crimes have been committed.

So the attorney general of that state taking issue with what the former governor has done, saying they have no idea where these four murders are. They are very concerned about safety issues. The fact that these guys have been pardoned and that they are now on the loose. They're trying to figure out how to deal with this. The best way they can deal with this. But so far it looks like, from what he is telling our own Martin Savidge, that their hands are largely tied.

Well, a law in Georgia requires students to step on the scale and get measured for their fat content, or BMI. Now these weigh-ins, it's a tool, of course, to help fight obesity for kids. This is from first grade all the way up until they become seniors in high school. But there are a lot of critics. It's a very controversial thing that's happening here. And Carl Azuz is joining us to talk a little bit about what is taking place in Georgia, potentially other states as well.

Explain to us why this is creating such a furor.

CARL AZUZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Georgia is one of 12 states that are doing this sort of thing. And the ultimate goal of it is to try to keep tabs on childhood obesity, as you mentioned. Georgia has the second highest childhood obesity rate in the country. So that's why state legislators put this law into place.

It's called "The Shape Act." And what it basically does, is it has kids have their BMI, their weight measured. They have like a general physical fitness test. And a lot of critics were initially concerned, look, this could potentially embarrass students. It doesn't take much imagination to think, you know, of a kid waving another's BMI information in the hallway, potentially posting it on Facebook, something like that.

So what they've done in order to combat that is to keep it very, very private. And by private I mean, students go into a room one on one with the teacher. No other students there. And what they do is they step on a scale backwards so even the student doesn't see their own weight. That information is taken, recorded by a teacher, and then later shared with parents on an individual basis. So there aren't other kids in the room to kind of make fun of them or, you know, to lay your creative scenario, where they might be bullied.

MALVEAUX: Sure. You know what I thought was really interesting about your report is that 80 percent of the parents, they thought, oh, my kid is fine. They're healthy. They're in good shape. How do you know if parent actually see their kids for how they really are, whether or not they really are in good shape or whether or not they're overweight?

AZUZ: It's a very difficult question to answer. There was a survey sited at healthyamericans.org recently and it found that around 84 percent of parents said their kids were at a healthy weight. But we know from national statistics that roughly a third of America's students are either overweight or obese. So this is one of those programs that aims to raise awareness and to sort of narrow that gap between perception and reality.

MALVEAUX: And if parents want more information about this, where can they go?

AZUZ: CNN has a new "Schools of Thought" blog. You can find it at cnn.com/education. It has the whole story right up there.

MALVEAUX: All right, Carl, thank you very much. Fascinating story. AZUZ: Thank you, Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Appreciate it.

Well, a lot of you responding to the "Talk Back" question, should schools be tracking students' body fat? Here's what some of you are saying.

Felipe says, "yes, obesity is a problem, but not the school's problem. The school should pay attention to their student's education, not their weight."

Habibah says, "if they follow up with a healthy dietary intake for the students' benefits, yes."

Tiffany writes, "which is more harmful, adolescent embarrassment or childhood and adult onset debilitating health problems like hypertension, diabetes, et cetera. Weight the children."

Lisa says, "no. they should be measuring the fat content of the food the kids are being fed in the cafeteria and hold the government responsible for subsidizing unhealthy food."

Thanks to all of you for writing in. We appreciate your responses.

Well, unmasking a shadowy hacking group. CNN investigates the group known as Anonymous and asks why it's targeting your credit card information.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: So they've stolen personal credit card numbers, information on the U.S. military and police departments. Well now the hacking group called Anonymous is taking its fight in the cyber world and on to the streets in America. Our Amber Lyon takes us inside Anonymous.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, back up, back up, back up.

AMBER LYON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a dark and disturbing vision. A world where riot police attack with immunity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened? What happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He got (EXPLETIVE DELETED) shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back, get back. Get back.

LYON: Where democracy is corrupted by greed and the sense is crushed.

CROWD: Let him go. Let him go. Let him go.

LYON: That's how anonymous sees America. And they say that's why they're fighting back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are legion. We do not forgive. We do not forget.

LYON: Troy, not his real name, is one of them. We met him at the Occupy Wall Street camp at Zuccotti Park.

"TROY," ANONYMOUS HACKER: There's no specific person that talks for us. It's more like a hive, you know, and ideas brought up and whoever agrees with it, if the overwhelming majority of people that agree with it, then we go with it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are Anonymous.

LYON: Anonymous likens itself to the Air Force of the Occupy movement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone, everywhere, will be occupying their towns, their capitals, and other public spaces.

LYON: When they see evidence of what they believe is police misbehavior, Anonymous strikes back, releasing personal information about specific officers.

TROY: And hopefully they'll think twice before he pulls out his baton against somebody who's holding a sign saying we just want peace.

LYON (on camera): And how are they getting the cell phone numbers and personal information of these officers or bankers?

TROY: I'd rather not say.

LYON (voice-over): The Department of Homeland Security has put out several alerts to law enforcement and corporate security, focused mainly on the group's hacking activities. And the FBI has made more than a dozen arrests.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are living in a policed state.

LYON: But there's no indication that has cramped Anonymous' style.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to all on planet earth.

LYON: On Christmas Day, members crashed the website of a security research company, hacking its client list, along with their credit card numbers, in order to steal $1 million for donations to charity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are Anonymous. Expect us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Amber Lyon is joining us from Los Angeles.

So, Amber, tell us what the long term goal of Anonymous is. Why are they involved with the Occupy movement?

LYON: Well, Suzanne, while I can't speak on behalf of the entire collective, I can speak on behalf of the Anons (ph) that we included in the piece. And they say that their main goal with Occupy Wall Street and the Occupy movement is to keep it relevant, to keep people like you and I in the mainstream media talking about this, whether that be live streaming events or releasing video of what they believe was police brutality.

They also say that they want to make sure the accurate truth about what happened at these protests gets out there and that's why they'll continue to have Anons on the ground monitoring these protests. Because above all, Suzanne, they say they don't feel that they trust the mainstream media to give an accurate portrayal of what's going on.

MALVEAUX: And who are these folks? Are they young teens working from their parents' basements? Are they different -- all kinds of different people making up this group?

LYON: I think that's kind of a misconception. A lot of people assume that Anons are just teenage hackers. And throughout this investigation, we've found Anons to be regular average joes. We found mechanics, movers, doctors, lawyers, people in all parts of society that are involved in this group calling for a revolution here in the U.S., Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right, Amber, thank you very much. Look forward to seeing more of your report on the secret world of Anonymous on CNN Presents. That is 8:00 p.m. Eastern on Saturday.

CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Randi Kaye.

Hey, Randi.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Hi, Suzanne.