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Cruise Ship Runs Aground, 3 Dead; Former Mississippi Governor Defends Clemency Decisions; Iranian Speed Boats Harass U.S. Ships; Partner in Same-Sex Marriage May be Deported
Aired January 14, 2012 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Don Lemon. Thank you so much for joining us here in CNN NEWSROOM.
Come on, let's be honest. You have thought about it every time you get on a plane or cruise ship. What happens if something goes wrong? Well, it happened to some passengers. One minute they're all enjoying a pleasure cruise off the coast of Italy. The next, thousands have been terrified they're racing for the life boats.
(INAUDIBLE)
The floors tilting right under their feet. Life preservers strapped to their chests. Their boat tipping over after it ran aground off of one of Italy's islands. This is not how you're supposed to see the sunset from a cruise ship. Look at those pictures. They are unbelievable. Three people are dead. Among more than 4,000 who were onboard that ship, and here is what authorities are saying. They say 43 to 70 people could still be missing. An estimated 126 Americans, 126 were on the cruise, but none of them are reported hurt.
The Italian captain is under arrest right now. He could be charged with manslaughter and abandoning ship. The ship is owned by Carnival, the biggest cruise line in the world based in Miami. CNN spoke with one of the Americans who had to flee the ship, Army Colonel Vivian Shafer who was on an R&R leave. Now, this is not how she plans to spend her time away from Afghanistan.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VIVIAN SHAFER, CRUISE SHIP SURVIVOR: We had just been on only a few hours. We didn't even have the safety brief yet. It was really bizarre. We had finished dinner and we were at the magic show. And we thought it was really sort of a bizarre trick to have the curtains all be sideways and the lights, you know, because he was using different lights and smoke. So, all in all, it was pretty bizarre. It was unreal. What was truly disappointing was there wasn't -- there didn't seem to be anybody getting in charge or anyone really with any authority to tell people anything. I mean, if it wasn't for like the island people and some of the ambulance people, we wouldn't even have known about the church for the school or a place where to get warm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Oh, man. So unexpected there. Joining me now on the phone from the CNN's journalist Barbie Nadeau. Barbie, thank you for joining us. Let's talk about the really abandoning the ship, the manslaughter charges against the captain. And at least what he could face. Is it actually the more serious charges of abandoning ship, which one is more serious?
BARBIE NADEAU, CNN REPORTER (on the phone): That's right. Abandoning ship, the abandonment charges are much more serious in terms of the maritime laws. Because the captain should stay until the last of his passengers and crew are off the ship. And this particular captain, he was off the ship long before the rest of the passengers. And he was in one of the first lifeboats off the ship. This particular ship we are hearing was 2.5 miles off its course and that's why it ran into this rocky sand bar and that's why it ripped this 160-foot gaping hole into the hull of the ship. A lot of the passengers I spoke with this morning were very, very, very disappointed in the way the cruise ship handled the evacuation.
Many of them felt, they actually self-evacuated. That they got themselves to the lifeboat area because they could see that the ship was listing to that point. All of those interviews will be taken into account when they continue the investigation into the captain of the ship and what his culpability may be. Right now, there are three reported death but there are over 40 people still unaccounted for. And they are trying to decide right now if that just a matter of administrative list keeping or if there really are 40 people still trapped, whose bodies are still under that hull of that massive cruise ship.
LEMON: Barbie, you said two-and-a-half miles offshore. And some of these people, they said that they swam to safety. They swam to the sandbar. As a matter of fact, did they swam or did everyone leave via life boat? Did some have to swim two-and-a-half miles? That seems like a ridiculous amount to have to swim.
NADEAU: Well, the people that swam to the rocky shore, this is an island that has a very shallow base. It goes out. When the tide is low, there is not much of a tide in the Mediterranean. What tide there is, you can actually kind of walk a lot of that area. So, the people that swam, swam to the rocky part of the shore or they swam to boats that were out there. Other life boats, I should say, that were already gone off the ship. There were a number of people though that I spoke to who were on the high side of the ship, if you will, the side listing of course -- low side, who were stuck in this life boat in mid air for about 45 minutes before someone was able to lower those life boats into the water. Those people were just terrified for that period of time. It's dark out. They are on the side of the ship that have light on it. They didn't know what was going to happen. They didn't know if the boat would be released and if that be actually put on the safety, if they would go down with the ship. And it was really harrowing experience for a number of people. There were 4,234 passengers and crew members on that ship. And they are very fortunate that only three people, so far, have been confirmed dead. But it's a really devastating disaster.
LEMON: When you look at the pictures of this ship, Barbie. And as we're looking at it now as we're talking to you. And at first, it was six. They said, they believed six people have died, now they're saying three. It is unbelievable that more people didn't die. And I mean, it's sad that three people so far and, you know, the numbers are going to be updated as this situation continues. And Barbie, we want to -- just people here in the United States with the parent company of this coastal cruise which really owns -- the parent company is Carnival cruise which we are familiar with here in the United States. But as you think about it, and I want you to talk to me about this a little bit more. When you think about this, and you see the ship listing and what happened, and the only three people so far, it is amazing that they got off. Considering, too, the captain was one of the first people in the lifeboat.
NADEAU: Yes, and that is really the interesting part of this. The other interesting part I think is the fact that they hadn't actually done safety brief for the people. By law, they have 24 hours when the ship sets sail.
LEMON: Usually, Barbie, is as soon as you get on, before you leave port, you line up on the side of the ship, you put on the life vests and they tell you here is what happens. You actually go through that. On the cruises that I've been on, that's what happens.
NADEAU: In this particular case, they knew that their life vests were in their room. And they knew based on a card that they had been given what the muster section was that they should go base on where the rooms where. But they hadn't actually done that drill yet. I talked to a number of passengers this morning who were veteran cruisers. They knew exactly what they were expecting. Many of them said they were surprised they hadn't been given the safety brief yet. Those people definitely knew that they should be on the life boats on the bottom of the ship, on the low side of the ship. The first-time cruisers, those were the people upon the top of the ship.
They didn't know that that's not the place you go in a situation like this. The stories that were harrowing, children screaming, passed over the heads of other people to try to get them on the life boats, elderly people in their pajamas who had gone to bed earlier that night who weren't going to take part (INAUDIBLE) those people all started to passed into the life boats to safety. And this is done by the passengers. This wasn't directed by the crew according to all the witnesses that we talked to this morning. And there were, you know, hundreds of people milling around this morning happy to share their stories.
LEMON: Barbie, we're going to have to leave it at that just for time purposes. Of course, thank you, Barbie Nadeau. We're going to have much, much more in this. Barbie is going to join us at 7 p.m. We'll have more on this story at 7 p.m. including an interview with the professor of naval architecture, he says, this ship record reminds him a lot of the most famous ship right of all the sinking of the "Titanic," of course. Meantime, we want you to check our cnn.com for more stories of passengers aboard the Costa Concordia. Plus, more incredible pictures of the ship that once sailed the seas but it's now its side partially under water as you saw from those amazing pictures.
Also, another story for you that is really making headlines right now and there's a lot of people talking. Former Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour defending his decision to grant pardons and other forms of clemency to more than 200 passengers. Some of whom committed murder and other felonies. But days after Barbour's action, the outrage is overflowing all across the state.
Someone has been found this at the very beginning, CNN's Martin Savidge, he is in Jackson for us now. And he talked with one of the convicted killers who is now free. Martin, I want to know what he had to say. But no matter how many times I hear from people involved with this from you, it is still as fascinating as the first time you hear about it.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is. You know, it is a remarkable story, no doubt about it, Don. And the way this whole thing has transpired, and keep in mind, it's been nearly exactly a week now since former Governor Haley Barbour passed along those now infamous pardons. It was actually Sunday when he pardoned the first five, four of whom were convicted murders. And then, it was only a day or two later that he went on to do almost 200 more pardons. We had a chance to talk to Anthony McCray is one of those convicted murderers who was pardoned. And he actually was convicted of murdering his wife. It was a brutal killing, shot her out in public, in a public place, in a crowded cafe. Shot her in the back. Now he's been pardoned. First law enforcement couldn't find him. We tracked him down, we spoke to him and here is what he said about being free.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTHONY MCCRAY, PARDONED FELON: It's a blessing (INAUDIBLE). I've been saying, I've been saved, I've been baptized, I've been reading the bible with 12-and-a-half years. So, it is just a true blessing. I didn't do this. God did this. God blessed Haley Barbour to do this for us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: Keep in mind, there was no doubt about the guilt of Anthony McCray here, which is why those who were opposed to his release were so angry. They said look, you know, this murder was blatant. Now, it should come as no surprise to you that Anthony McCray believes that all of the outrage, all of the anger that's pointed at Governor Barbour is just way over the top. They just don't think the Governor deserves this.
LEMON: Talked to the brother of the woman who was killed by McCray. What did he have to say?
SAVIDGE: Well, you know, this is the other thing. So many families that are either in fear or not in fear, this has just once again, brought it all back. That they have to relive the trauma that they went through as a result of the pardons that the Governor did. And so, we talked to Ronald here. Ronald Bonds, he is the brother of the woman who we just talked about. How he is murdered. And here is what he had to say about the Governor's pardons.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RONALD BONDS, VICTIM'S BROTHER: You're going to give a murderer, you know, somebody who shot another female, you know, person that they said they love and shot him in the back. You're going to wipe his slate clean.
SAVIDGE: What do you think of Governor Haley Barbour and what he did?
BONDS: Glad he out. Should have been out. I didn't vote for him now, neither time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAVIDGE: You know, by the way, tomorrow Don, is the 11th anniversary of the murder of that woman, which is again adding to the pain of the family here. And because it was a pardon, the slate has been wiped clean. Anthony McCray now can go out live as if he had never committed the murder at all.
LEMON: Martin Savidge, thank you, Martin. When we'll get back to you, we'll hear what Haley Barbour is saying for himself now. We appreciate your reporting.
And next, a Mississippi law maker who is trying to keep this from happening again. And South Carolina is the next battleground for the republican candidates running for president from Myrtle Beach, right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: We'll continue the coverage right now about former Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour. He left office this week but he left behind more than 200 clemency orders, including pardons for several convicted killers. Mississippi State House member Bobby Moak is among the many people angered by these pardons and he's also the leader of the Mississippi house democratic caucus. Mr. Moak, thank you for joining us today. I understand that you are taking steps to try to change the way these pardons are issued. What are you working on?
BOBBY MOAK (D), MISSISSIPPI STATE: Sure. Several of my colleagues have gotten together. We introduced legislation during the past three or four years in order to look at this issue. But we have some legislation that we brought forward in our chamber on Friday that will probably be dropped Monday. We are looking at probably one of the most difficult things to change in Mississippi. That's the constitution. But more likely, we have two other pieces of legislation that are statutory, that we think we can get some impetus to pass this session.
LEMON: I would imagine you found out about this just like everyone else about the time everyone else did. What was your gut reaction, your first reaction when you heard?
MOAK: Well, when we heard about this Sunday morning, it wasn't so much the numbers at that time, but it was the convictions, the murders who were being released. That really drove home to us and got us together and we started calling our colleagues saying, this is something that we don't need to see happen. This is the reason the legislation has been pushed during the past years. And we need to step out on this.
LEMON: It's a gut check, I'm sure.
MOAK: It really shocked us even with the fourth.
LEMON: Yes.
MOAK: Oh, absolutely at that time. And then, later we saw the huge numbers that everybody has just been taken aback by.
LEMON: Have you had a chance to speak to the new governor? Any republican law makers about your plans? And if you have, what are they saying?
MOAK: Well, of course, we've spoken to our colleagues. We've invited everybody to come join us because this really has moved beyond any sort of partisan issue. This is an issue that all Mississippians are now interested in. And so, I think we are going to get some support from all across the aisle on this. Some of our colleagues in the Senate have been moving that way. And I know Governor Bryant has now made a statement that he would like to see something moved. So, hopefully, we can get everybody to come together and push something forward so that families aren't left out, law enforcement is not left out, and prosecutors aren't left out the next time this comes along in Mississippi.
LEMON: All right. Take a listen to this, if you will, Mr. Moak. This is Haley Barbour just yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALEY BARBOUR (R), FORMER MISSISSIPPI GOVERNOR: I'm not saying I'll be perfect. That nobody who received clemency will ever do nothing wrong. I'm not infallible and nobody else is. But I am very comfortable and totally at peace with these pardons, including those at the mansion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: The Governor's mansion, we should note, is where those convicted killers work, Mr. Moak. And Haley Barbour said some of them, he allowed them to play with his grandchildren and so on and so forth. What do you think of his response?
MOAK: Well, the trustee program in Mississippi and in this instance we've sort of seen that pardons have a path that come through the trustee program, through the governor's mansion. And that's why some of the legislation that we are pushing makes sure that when a governor looks at a pardon, that he has to notify the district attorney that prosecuted the case. Especially in cases of murder. He can call a public hearing. He can get some input from the families. That's one thing here. The families didn't know this was going to happen. The families of the victims didn't know this was going to happen. And they are certainly not comfortable tonight, I can tell you that, after speaking with them.
LEMON: Mississippi State House member Bobby Moak, thank you. I appreciate your time.
On to politics now. Religious conservatives meeting at a ranch outside of Houston have decided to throw their support to republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum. The group heard pitches today from surrogates for the GOP candidates. Santorum was chosen after three rounds of voting. Tony Perkins is a president of the family research council. He was asked last hour by out Fredricka Whitfield if he thought that Santorum could get the GOP nomination. Here's what he said.
TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: I think that is the thinking. The leaders that were there. It's time to get off the sidelines, move into the process and express support for the candidate that is most conservative.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: South Carolina primary one week from today. I'll be reporting from there as a matter of fact. Join us for those reports. You know, that meeting in Texas has the attention of a lot of Republicans in South Carolina. I want to talk now with CNN's political reporter Shannon Travis, he is in Myrtle Beach right now. Shannon, is this a big deal that these conservatives are now backing Rick Santorum?
SHANNON TRAVIS, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: I mean, it is a big deal. Think of it this way, Don. There's been no secret that these social evangelicals have wanted someone to take on Mitt Romney like the anti- Romney candidate. And they've been kind of scrounging around, searching around, who should it be? Who should it be? Well, now they are saying it should be Rick Santorum. So, this is a big deal for him. But two problems, Don. Number one, it's coming late in the process. Mitt Romney won Iowa. Mitt Romney won New Hampshire, OK? Secondly, these Christian evangelicals tried to do this with Mike Huckabee in 2008. He won in Iowa. It didn't work so well for the nomination or in the general. So, there is also a question about whether their influence is waning. So, a few issues with that. But I can tell you right now that the Rick Santorum campaign is happy about this little gift a week before the primary in South Carolina.
LEMON: Yes. You said it's coming late. So, it's not going to -- you don't think it's going to make a difference in South Carolina or in the upcoming primaries or caucuses? Is this just something that looks, I don't know, I guess it helps him as a republican, looks good as a conservative, but you don't think it's going to help him in any polling, in any caucus in any primary?
TRAVIS: I mean, it certainly could help him. The question is by how much? By how much could it help him? I mean, any level of support from more people for Rick Santorum especially, you know, Don, was low in the polls just a few weeks ago is going to be good. But get this, tomorrow we'll have a bit the first-ever Tea Party convention here in South Carolina and the Nikki Haley, the governor of this state, Tea Party booster, Jim DeMint, the senator from the state, either big Tea Party booster. They'll both be here. And Nikki Haley is supporting Mitt Romney. So, you've got some Tea Party crowds in the form of Nikki Haley, the governor backing Romney. You've got these Christian evangelicals during this support behind Santorum. So, it's a question of how much it will help him. We should know that Santorum and Newt Gingrich will also be here at this Tea Party convention. But the others won't be, Don.
LEMON: Mr. Travis, thank you very much. I appreciate your reporting. On now to these U.S. marines, we've been hearing so much about. Apparently, urinating on the corpses of Taliban fighters. What were they thinking? That conversation is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: You heard it, you may have seen it. I'm talking about a video that has surfaced on YouTube showing what appears to be a group of U.S. marines urinating on several bodies. We are going to show you a brief clip. And please be warned the video is extremely graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Have a great day, buddy.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Got it on video?
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Yep.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Golden like a shower.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Well, deputy commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan says that incident violates basic standards of human decency. I'm joined now by psychologist and relationship expert, Dr. Alduan Tartt, he is here in Atlanta and in Miami, Dr. Terry Lyles, psychologist specializing in crisis and stress management.
First, you Alduan. Why do you think they do something like this? And I can't judge, I'm not in a war zone, I'm not a soldier, I'm not a marine, I don't know, but why?
ALDUAN TARTT, PSYCHOLOGIST AND RELATIONSHIP EXPERT: Well, one, isolated, and several of the soldiers have been killed. And in war you're taught to dehumanize your enemy. You're not thinking about them as friends, as brothers, as fathers, as nephews, you should think about them as the enemy. And shortly after they've been killed, especially they tried to kill you. I can see how it can happen. Now, it's not right. Especially publicly looking at it and taking a video on it. But war is ugly. It's not something that anyone wants to see.
LEMON: And Terry, to that, I've heard a lot of folks saying, listen, if I walk by it, I'm just being honest, if I walk by it. And I saw it, I wouldn't think twice about it, but I certainly wouldn't videotape it, as well. Why would they film this? TERRY LYLES, PSYCHOLOGIST, STRESS AND CRISIS MANAGEMENT: Well, I mean, unfortunately Don, this is the age that we live in with everyone having a phone, being able to capture things and been not using good judgment. That is what we do with it. I mean, this is just another element of war stress. I mean, as just mentioned by the other doctor there, I mean, war images can be very difficult. When you live in that environment, it begins to numb the senses and decisions that we make and actually questionable in our judgment. So, this has a lot to do with just the images of war being there and just not using good judgment. And of course, leadership is going to be involved in this conversation, I'm sure.
LEMON: So, then, this is what happens in war, that's what you're saying, Terry. So, then what do you do? What do you do in this case? What do you do for marines, soldiers, anyone who is in uniform who may have done something like this? And you know, what? They may not and probably are not the first people to do something like this, obviously.
LYLES: Sure. Well, and again, this doesn't -- war doesn't cause this kind of saying, but I think it opens that door up. And that's why leadership has to stay accountable to their troops. And I think you'll going to hear more about this in the legal system through the military as it comes out. But again, it's staying in a state of awareness, but also communicating clearly that we have to be at our best because everyone is watching. The world is watching this through little cameras now everywhere we go. So, it's a leadership piece and it's also something that has to be communicated very clearly. And I think a good can come out of this by teaching and use this as a teachable moment.
LEMON: Dr. Tartt, what should the punishment, if any, be for these marines?
TARTT: I don't know what you do. Reason I say that is because it's one of those things that they videotaped it because they felt like heroes, hey, we killed four of the enemy and we want to send it out to show that we killed them. They didn't think twice about it. Now, of course, when you look at it, had it been Americans and the same thing, had we would be outraged? But that cultural sensitivity training. But then again, in war, it's hard to talk about cultural sensitivity training and what you do when someone is trying to kill you.
LEMON: It's a tough one because you want our men and women in uniform to be held to higher standards, but then sitting in our comfy studios, air-conditioned studios, going to work in air-conditioned cars.
TARTT: It's hard to say kill and be killed but then respect them after...
LEMON: It's tough. Thank you. Thank you to both doctors. I appreciate your input on this.
We'll going to move on now and talk about our top story here on CNN. A cruise ship runs, flips over off the coast of Italy. Thousands flee in panic. The latest on that and the other top stories right after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: There's a lot of news to get caught up on.
Starting with this. An Italian ship captain is under arrest after his cruise ship ran aground on one of Italy's islands. Three people onboard are dead. Dozens of others unaccounted for. The captain could be charged with manslaughter and abandoning ship.
One of the survivors compared it to the most infamous sea disaster of all time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED VICTIM (through translation): I can easily understand comparisons to the film. How it must have been on the "Titanic" or in a fiction film. Scenes of panic create disaster. People are scrambling over each other and elderly people wetting themselves.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: It is believed about 126 Americans were onboard. Apparently, none was hurt.
In Iraq, Shiite pilgrims were the apparent target of a suicide bombing in a city here Basra. The Interior Ministry says the blast killed at least 53 people and wounded 137. Officials say the bombers struck a police checkpoint. Iraq's president and the U.S. embassy condemned the attack. Many Iraqi fear the U.S. military's withdrawal would be followed by an uptick in violence.
A new sign of the rising threat from Iran. The Pentagon released these photos showing Iranian speed boats harassing military ships in two separate incidents. This was just a week ago.
We asked retired Naval Captain Alec Frazer what it's like to respond to confrontation like this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. ALEX FRASER, U.S. NAVY, RETIRED: Your first instinct is, I've got to protect my ship and crew. The second one is, you don't want to start something that doesn't necessarily need to be started. So there is this playoff between what is the history, what is going on in the situation and deciding whether these guys are really a threat or not.
My biggest problem, I think, was a problem of a rogue Rambo boat driver that decides to say, I'm going to show off to my friends and charge at the ship. Maybe the guy up front with a machine gun decides I'm going to fire off a few rounds. And then they've started something they don't mean to. The command and control of those little boats is not very good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: One of those incidents took place in the Straits of Hormuz where Iran has warned the U.S. not to intrude. A family on the verge of being ripped apart. A married couple could be split up and four children may have to watch one parent leave, deported after living in this country legally for 22 years.
CNN's Susan Candiotti has their story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This French national, Frederick DeLoizy, says he has a typical American life. He routinely greets his four kids at the school bus, then goes home to his husband, Mark Himes.
FREDERICK DELOIZY, FRENCH NATIONAL: I feel more American than French. I love the history. I love the people. There is something that attracts me.
CANDIOTTI: The United States government doesn't see it that way. They allow their U.S. citizens to sponsor spouses for visas, but don't recognize marriage between the same sexes.
MARK HIMES, HUSBAND OF FREDRICK: If I were a woman marrying a man, we wouldn't be in this situation. This would have been resolved years ago.
CANDIOTTI: Frederick's final visa expired in September. After 22 years in the U.S., he faces possible deportation.
DELOIZY: We'll go through it, but it will affect so many people. It is every day. It's a daily fight. It's uncertainty of the future, not knowing where we are going. How to build a future. How do I protect my kids? How do I make sure my kids have a stable family, stable environment?
CANDIOTTI: Frederick and Mark adopted their four children together and were married in the state of California where gay marriage was recognized at the time. The Defense of Marriage Act prevents the federal government recognizing marriages between people of the same sex.
LAVI SOLOWAY, LAWYER: What it says is that the federal government cannot recognize legal marriages of gay and lesbian couples. As a result, issues like immigration can't be resolved. Your marriages don't count for immigration purposes. Therefore, an American citizen cannot obtain a green card for his husband.
CANDIOTTI: Mark lived his entire life in the suburbs of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
HIMES: Why should I have to leave my country and all my family and all my friends I've known for 43 years just because the government doesn't recognize our relationship?
CANDIOTTI: Last year, the Department of Homeland Security gave immigration authorities the discretion to stay deportations based on, quote, "The person's ties and contributions to the community, including family relationships."
CANDIOTTI: Frederick says no government will divide their family.
DELOIZY: Our children come first. We are a real family. We have to stay together no matter what. So if the government doesn't want me, unfortunately, we have to expatriate and find a country.
CANDIOTTI: After a hearing this week, the couple awaits a decision on whether Frederick can remain with his family in the place they call home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LEMON: Susan Candiotti is live for us in New York right now.
At the end of your story, you mentioned Homeland Security gave the folks at immigration wiggle room to stop deportations like this. Do you know if they are going to use it?
CANDIOTTI: That's the problem, because, in cases like this, immigration authorities won't talk about individual cases. We do know this. As you heard, the Department of Homeland Security has told its prosecutors and investigators that they have to prioritize cases, and they have to consider family ties. That includes people of all sexual orientations, contributions they made to the community, before they start deporting someone.
So we know there's been a hearing in this case. Certainly, Frederick and his spouse hope they don't have to be torn apart and separated from their children.
LEMON: Great report.
Thank you, Susan Candiotti, in New York.
Up next on CNN, a "CNN Hero" who is changing the world and he's only 18 years old. We'll tell you how.
And ahead, murderers, rapists and thieves pardoned by the outgoing governor of Mississippi. Is that even legal? My conversation -- you don't want to miss it -- coming up with Holly Hughes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Millions of people, millions of young people say they want to change the world. Today's "CNN Heroes" recognizes someone who did. Justin Churchman is his name. He's just 18 years old but he's already changing lives in Juarez, Mexico. How is he doing it? One house at a time.
(CNN HERO)
LEMON: Haley Barbour is no longer Mississippi's governor, but he left office with a huge legal bombshell -- clemency for more than 200 people, including pardons for several convicted murders. A lot of people are asking, what was he thinking? We'll talk about it with Holly Hughes after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Everybody is trying to figure this one out because rapists, burglars, even murderers are all among the scores of inmates pardoned or who had their sentences suspended by Mississippi governor -- former Mississippi Governor Haley Barbour. About 200 convicted criminals total, including these men. We'll explain what they did. Joseph Ozment, convicted of killing a store clerk during a robbery; Charles Hooker, also convicted of murder; David Gatlin, who shot and killed his estranged wife and I believe -- who was holding a child at the time; and Anthony McCray, who pleaded guilty to murdering his wife, though he now insists now it was an accident.
Holly Hughes is here. She's a criminal defense attorney.
Holly, it is a tradition in Mississippi to have trusted inmates, convicted murderers -- you get to work at the governor's mansion and, in return, many receive a pardon. But are they usually people who are convicted murderers or who are accused and convicted of crimes like these?
HOLLY HUGHES, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: Believe it or not, yes. Southern tradition -- we find in a lot of the lower southern states, Kentucky, Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama. Most of the folks who are given the privilege of working at the governor's mansion are murderers.
Let me back up. All I'm hearing, as far as justification is, it's a tradition. Let's point out, Don, that this country has had some traditions that were indecent, immoral. Let's say it. Slavery used to be a tradition, OK? Denying women the right to vote was a tradition. So this sad, pathetic justification of, it's OK, we've always done it, I'm not buying it.
LEMON: You heard him yesterday. He's saying -- he gave his explanation. He said, I let these people play with my grandkids, what have you. Everyone is shaking their head, going, what? Haley Barbour, who built his career on people being accountable for what you've done, whether it's good or bad -- they don't understand it. What was he thinking?
HUGHES: It is completely out of character with what we have seen of his political career. Again, you accept responsibility. There is a difference between forgive and forget.
LEMON: He lied.
HUGHES: That's what we call in the news business the back story, Don.
(CROSSTALK)
HUGHES: We need to know who made him angry enough to do this in-your- face move. That's what it seems to me. No notification to the family of these victims? You're revictimizing these people all over again. Legislative intent. When the legislature says the judge has the power to sentence you and the judge says life sentence, why all of a sudden can one single man come along and wipe that out?
LEMON: Can these people -- because they were trying to get in touch with a lot of them. Some of them said, we need them to check in. Do they have to check in?
HUGHES: No.
LEMON: And can they be sent back to --
(CROSSTALK)
HUGHES: No. That's what we call --
LEMON: It's done. Over.
HUGHES: It's a done deal. It's called ex post facto, which is exactly what it sounds like, after the fact. You can't change the law and then go back. Say you got a speeding ticket three years ago, Don. You paid it. It's over. Somebody now enacts a law that says, we can cut of your pinky because you got a speeding ticket. They can't come look you up and cut off --
(CROSSTALK)
HUGHES: No. It's done deal. These people haven't done anything wrong. They got a pardon. They went away.
LEMON: Well, there are other people --I think they said 21 people who got a pardon and are still in prison. Can they block them?
HUGHES: They are going to get out.
LEMON: Why?
HUGHES: They have tried. Basically, the Constitution of that state gave him the power to do it. That's why he is proudly standing up on TV saying, I did what I did, you all, live with it. They can't touch him and they can't touch these folks.
LEMON: Thank you. Thank you very much.
HUGHES: Absolutely.
LEMON: Danny Wuerffel, he enjoyed a storybook career in college football. The Heisman Trophy-winner found winning on the field was easy compared to what he faced after leaving the field. That story straight ahead.
First, I want to tell you this. We are three weeks into the New Year. Three weeks already? Wow. Are you still on track on your financial New Year's resolutions? If not, the best investment you can make in 2012 is to get out of credit card debt, of course.
Christine Romans shows us how in this week's "Smart is the New Rich."
(SMART IS THE NEW RICH) (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: He won the Heisman Trophy and a national championship. One famous quarterback got knocked off his feet when a rare disorder hit him. Dr. Sanjay Gupta explains in today's "Human Factor."
(HUMAN FACTOR)
LEMON: Four homeless men stabbed to death. Police in California believe it is the work of a serial killer. And now they have a suspect in custody. Details on the investigation next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
LEMON: Again, catching you up on the headlines right now.
An Italian captain under arrest after his cruise ship runs aground on Italy's islands, one of the islands there. At least three people on board are dead. Dozens are unaccounted for. The captain could be charged with manslaughter and abandoning ship. And estimated 126 Americans onboard, but none appear to be hurt.
A California man is in custody and police say he fits the description of a serial killer who has been preying on the homeless. after a man was killed last night witnesses led police to that suspect. He hasn't yet been linked to the three other killings of homeless men in the Los Angeles area last month.
A man suspected in a series of -- get this -- rear end slashings in Virginia last year is in custody in Peru. Fairfax County police issued a warrant in September charging Johnny Gwenny Camentell (ph) with malicious wounding. He was captured Friday in Lima. All the victims, women, in their teens or early 20s. In each attack, the victim was distracted before being cut on the back side.
Oprah Winfrey celebrating the first graduation of her Leadership Academy in South Africa. But she is speaking out about leadership in the United States, and why she hasn't officially endorsed President Obama.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, MEDIA MOGUL: Everybody asks me, are you going to do what you did in 2008? What I did it in 2008, I did because people didn't know really -- my own friends didn't know who this guy was at the time. They were like, who is this guy. Do you think that guy will be president? I go, yes, I really do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEMON: Winfrey tells CNN she will help the campaign if the White House asks her to.
More on Penn State. Coach Joe Paterno has been hospitalized for complication from his cancer treatments. His son says the family hopes it will be a short hospital stay. Paterno suffers from a treatable form of lung cancer. But he just spoke with "The Washington Post" in his first interview since leaving Penn State amidst a child sex abuse scandal. Paterno says, he called his superiors and said we've got a problem, I think. He goes on to say, "I had never had to deal with something like that."
Coming up tonight, in one hour, ever hear of the term "passing"? Thousands of African-Americans had to make this choice often for survival during Jim Crow days. This is a story that could make you question your own racial identity.
I'm Don Lemon at the CNN headquarters in Atlanta. See you back here one hour from now. In the meantime, "The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer begins in just a few minutes.
