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Rick Perry Jumps Out of GOP Race; Rick Santorum Official Winner in Iowa Caucuses; Obama Speaks At Disneyworld; Kareem Abdul-Jabbar Interview

Aired January 19, 2012 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. I'm Suzanne Malveaux.

Want to get you up to speed.

There has been a shakeup in the Republican race for president just two days before the South Carolina primary. Rick Perry announced last hour he is dropping out of the race. He immediately endorsed one of his rivals.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RICK PERRY (R-TX), FMR. PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As I've contemplated the future of this campaign, I have come to the conclusion that there is no viable path forward for me in this 2012 campaign. Therefore, today I am suspending my campaign and endorsing Newt Gingrich for president of the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN ANCHOR: Perry's decision follows his poor showings in Iowa and New Hampshire. Polls show him in the single digits in South Carolina. A new poll by Politico gives Perry just four percent of the vote.

Well, our own Peter Hamby, he broke the story earlier today. He joins us from Charleston, South Carolina.

So, Peter, give us a little bit of a backstory. How did he come about making this decision?

PETER HAMBY, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Right, Suzanne. This decision came late yesterday. Governor Perry started to inform some senior staff and some campaign supporters and financial supporters last night.

We just spoke to Ray Sullivan, his communications director, out here in the lobby, Suzanne. And he said he got a phone call from Governor Perry at a Wendy's when he was sitting down to have some fast food last night.

I asked Sullivan what changed between the Iowa caucuses, when he finished fifth, and woke up the next morning and really came to the decision after a jog, I'm going to go to South Carolina and go hard? What changed between then and now? And he just said, we just came to the conclusion that there's no viable path forward. And, quite frankly, no one will dispute that.

We also asked him about why Speaker Gingrich and not Governor Romney. He said, frankly, Speaker Gingrich and Governor Perry have a longstanding relationship. They do -- as we know, Governor Perry wrote a book last year. Speaker Gingrich wrote the forward to it. They've always had a warm relationship.

Another Perry source told me, quite frankly, they don't believe Governor Romney is conservative, and that's the bottom line. So that's why they're going with Newt.

There are no plans, Suzanne, for Governor Perry to campaign for Speaker Gingrich. This weekend Perry is going back to Austin for the weekend. That could change at a later date, but that's the plan right now -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: And Peter, was it a tough decision for the governor to make, do you think?

HAMBY: You know, it probably almost certainly was. Clearly, he jumped in with a huge head of steam back in August and September. His family was very much on board with this. Anita Perry -- there was talk his wife was really pushing him hard to continue to campaign after Iowa.

The campaign though says that the family is very much on board with this decision. Again, our CNN poll that came out yesterday had Perry at almost six percent.

Here's the thing that's interesting. Talking to voters in South Carolina throughout the last two weeks that I've been here, Republican voters do like Governor Perry. They just came to the conclusion, after seeing him in these debates, that he's not viable in an election against Barack Obama.

Those debates really had an impact in shaping how voters think about Governor Perry. He gets very big crowds, but the folks come away from those events saying, I like the guy, I just don't think he can win. I think the Perry campaign and Perry himself realized that, so only four podiums on our debate stage tonight in Charleston -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: Peter, this may be reading the tea leaves here, but maybe you can't even answer this question, but do you think that Governor Perry would consider another run for this at a future date?

HAMBY: It's funny you mentioned that. That would be completely dismissed by a lot of people in politics because his appearances in those debates were, frankly, so abysmal, that he ruined his brand so much. However, Governor Romney showed in this cycle and Senator McCain showed in the last cycle, running twice is a good way to win the Republican nomination.

There are a couple Perry advisers that I know who say, hey, he's been in this race for the last couple of weeks, knowing he wouldn't win, just kind of honing his skills and his abilities. He's actually been pretty good on the stump. And frankly, he's been much better in his debates, he's been reading his briefing books.

Is he viable in 2016 or 2020? He's still a young governor of an enormous state with a huge economy. He would have to overcome some the demons of this race, certainly. I would not rule it out completely though -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: All right. Peter, we'll see how it goes. Thanks again. And again, congratulations for two big breaking news stories that you broke very recently, including today.

Thanks, Peter. Great job.

HAMBY: Thank you.

MALVEAUX: It turns out that Mitt Romney didn't win the Iowa caucuses after all. The official count released this morning put Rick Santorum ahead of Romney by 34 votes.

So check off Iowa as win for Santorum on the CNN election board, but results from eight precincts are still missing, can't be counted. So officials say that the full numbers may actually never be known.

Well, on the line now is the guy who first noticed something was wrong with the results in Iowa, Edward True.

And Edward, thanks for being with us here. One of our producers flagged your story the day after the caucuses, saying, hey, we've got to pay attention to this guy, because it looks like everything is not really going well.

When did you first know that there was a problem in your precinct?

EDWARD TRUE, IOWA VOTE COUNTER: I went online, and I believe it was around 1:00 or 2:00 Wednesday afternoon, the day after the caucuses, was when I first noticed it.

MALVEAUX: And what did you notice?

TRUE: When I looked at it, and I had seen the breakdown by precinct, I had seen that the total vote count was, I think, 79 was reported, which that kind of stuck out as odd because I knew there wasn't 80 people there. But then I looked and I started checking the numbers that I had written down versus what was reported, and I had seen that Romney had 22 instead of the 2.

MALVEAUX: So, when you discovered this typo, what did you do? Who did you alert?

TRUE: I first spoke with some people from Watch the Vote 2012, and then from there, I spoke with my precinct captain, the county chairperson, and I also made a call to the state GOP.

MALVEAUX: And why didn't they listen to you? Why didn't they respond and say, we'll check this out or we'll look at this?

TRUE: I don't know. I understand with the 1,400 precincts that were there, there's a lot to check. But it took me I think an hour's worth of time to contact the people that I did and have three other people to verify that there was a mistake.

MALVEAUX: You were very dogged in your determination to make sure that this was fixed. How many meetings, how many hours did you spend to try to raise your hand and get these officials' attention?

TRUE: I spent quite a bit of my free team. There was a lot of stuff that I posted through Facebook and comments on different news stories to try and help spread my story and give it the attention that I felt that it needed.

MALVEAUX: Edward, do you think there's a lesson in any of this when you look at the Iowa caucuses? People see counting these pieces of paper and throwing them in little buckets here. What do we take away from this?

TRUE: I think it's a model of how the rest of the nation should be. I mean, with the accountability and the transparency of Iowa, there's the ability for people such as myself to come in and check things on our own, and within hours say, hey, there's a mistake here, I found it, let's correct it. Checks and balances system is what we need in our elections.

MALVEAUX: All right.

Checks and balances from the guy who started it in the first place, checking and making sure that the system was working. And now it has been corrected in the Iowa caucuses.

Edward True, it's a great name -- "True." Appreciate your attention.

TRUE: Thank you.

MALVEAUX: Thanks.

All right. So it's been quite a day in politics. Newt Gingrich is defending his food stamp claims, while former president Jimmy Carter accuses him of using language that appeals to racists, which brings us to today's "Talk Back" question. Is Gingrich a race-baiter or a hard truth-teller?

Carroll Costello, she's joining us from Washington with more.

This is extremely controversial, Carol, and we heard before -- now we're hearing from Rick Perry making the case here, saying there are 50 million Americans who are on food stamps. Clearly, their message is parallel now. They are going to be hitting home with that argument.

Tell us why.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, they are. I'm going to do my best, Suzanne.

Newt Gingrich is surging in South Carolina. A Politico survey shows him just seven points behind Mitt Romney. Why? Many South Carolina Republicans say Gingrich's tough talk during Monday night's debate fired up voters. Gingrich's campaign is already capitalizing on it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NARRATOR: Only Newt Gingrich can beat Obama.

NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: More people have been put on food stamps by Barack Obama than any president in American history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Gingrich often shorthands that sentiment by calling Mr. Obama the food stamp president, which might delight some South Carolina voters, but inflames many African-Americans like April Moncrief, an upper middle class married mother of two.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

APRIL MONCRIEF, GEORGIA VOTER: We've heard stuff like this. We've heard code words like this. We get it. And it does -- it fires me up to get this man re-elected back into office so that America can really see who is the bad person in this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: You heard her. Moncrief can't wait to cast another vote for Obama. Former president Jimmy Carter isn't saying how he'll vote, but he agrees with Moncrief about Gingrich.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES CARTER, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He knows as well the words that you use like "welfare mamas" and so forth that have been appealing in the past in those days when we cherished segregation of the races. So he's appealing for that in South Carolina, and I don't think it will pay off in the long run.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Gingrich is not apologizing. Here he is on "The Today Show."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And conservatives suggest that the poor would rather have a paycheck than a food stamp. The very liberals who have failed them at places like "The New York Times" promptly scream racism because they have no defense for the failure of liberal institutions which have trapped poor children in bad schools, trapped them in bad neighborhoods, trapped them in crime-ridden situations. Liberal solutions have failed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: So, the "Talk Back" question for you today: Is Gingrich a race baiter or a hard truth teller?

Facebook.com/CarolCNN. I'll read your comments later this hour.

MALVEAUX: All right. Thank you, Carol.

(NEWSBREAK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: President Obama making a high-profile visit to Disney World today. Yes, that's right. Not just to meet the mouse, Mickey Mouse. It's part of a new push to increase tourism to the United States.

Today, the president signed an executive order to speed up visa processing for Chinese and Brazilian tourists.

Another glimmer of hope -- that's right -- in the economy. First-time jobless claims at their lowest levels in almost four years. Three hundred and fifty-two thousand people filed for unemployment for the first time last week.

And Italian authorities are carrying out toxicology tests on a hair sample taken from the captain of the doomed cruise ship.

Plus, a decision now being made on when to call off the search for survivors. Rescuers resumed their search of the Costa Concordia today in a race against time to find almost two dozen still missing. Now, the rescuers, they plan to blow more holes into the side of the ship to try to gain access into the inside.

Chilling new video from inside those air pockets of this ship give us an idea of the dangers that they are facing. And we also heard from a member of the rescue team.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GIAN LUCA RICCIARDULLI, ITALIAN ALPINE AND CAVING RESCUE CORP: We left with floating furniture and glass doors that can fall down on the divers, and so it can get very dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: So, port authority transcripts obtained by an Italian newspaper reveal a timeline of this disaster, and it is really quite disturbing, because it shows the Italian port authority first notified of the accident roughly 25 minutes after the impact. The information didn't come from officers aboard the ship, but from police who actually received a call from a relative of one of the passengers.

So here's the timeline.

10:06 p.m., police on land are made aware of what they say are problems.

10:14, Concordia officers tell the Coast Guard it's only a power outage. 10:26, the ship's captain calls the Coast Guard and says there's an open hole in the ship.

10:48, the Coast Guard is told an evacuation is under evaluation.

And then, finally, at 10:58, almost an hour after police were first made aware of these problems, the evacuation begins.

People in Seattle and Tacoma are living under an ice storm warning. Right now Seattle schools remain closed, along with two of the three runways at the airport. Yesterday, almost seven inches of snow fell at the airport. That is double the record set 60 years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I said, "Oh, my gosh. We've got that much snow?" I just couldn't believe it. That's my neighbor who is clearing off the driveway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: All right. Back to politics.

Let's turn our attention to Rick Santorum. I understand he did try to get Rick Perry's endorsement.

Our Dana Bash, she is in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina, where Santorum is about to hold an event.

And essentially, Dana, you do the backstory of how this endorsement went down. Tell us what happened.

DANA BASH, CNN SR. CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, what happened was that Rick Perry decided, we understand from sources, last night that he was in fact going to drop out of the race. And we also understand from people who were involved in the conversations with Newt Gingrich that he actually decided last night that he was going to back Newt Gingrich. And, in fact, he actually spoke with the former Speaker and made that clear, that he was going to give a full-on endorsement. He did that right before Perry --

Now, I am here at the Rick Santorum event, at least one that's about to start. You can probably see them setting up behind me.

This, Suzanne, was supposed to be a big day for Rick Santorum because, guess what? He won Iowa, the Iowa caucuses. He thought he came in second, just eight votes shy. Well, he found out today that he actually was the winner by 34 votes over Mitt Romney.

They were hoping inside the Santorum campaign that this was going to be the headline of the day, the thing that would give him momentum here in the state of South Carolina, where he, according to many polls that have come out, has really actually been struggling, and that hasn't happened because of the Perry announcement and his endorsement of Newt Gingrich. Certainly, at least so far, it has overshadowed that. He's hoping he's going to come here, Rick Santorum, with Tony Perkins. He is with the Family Research Council. He is a part of the group of Christian conservatives who threw their weight behind Rick Santorum. He is hoping that that kind of push is going to help him again on this day.

MALVEAUX: So it's good news for Santorum with the Iowa caucuses when -- are they disappointed that they didn't get the endorsement from Rick Perry? That went to Newt instead.

BASH: Oh, sure. Oh, sure. There's no question about it.

I was e-mailing with a senior source inside the Santorum campaign who said, well, we are already getting phone calls from some of Rick Perry's big money people saying that they want to come on to the Santorum campaign, and the source also said that today they are going to buy some ad time in Florida, trying to -- the translation there is that they are saying, we are not giving up, not even close.

But of course any kind of endorsement, especially from somebody like Rick Perry, who obviously wasn't doing well in the polls, but he is somebody who is respected by social conservatives, that would have helped. And in terms of kind of the perception of momentum, again, if Rick Santorum was hoping to get that with this surprise Iowa win today, and now it looks like that's going to Newt Gingrich, it's disappointing because Rick Santorum, again, in several polls, including (INAUDIBLE) came out yesterday, he was actually down in single digits, while Newt Gingrich seems to be catapulting, nipping at Mitt Romney's heels.

MALVEAUX: OK. All right, Dana. Thank you so much.

Want to let our viewers know as well that at this hour, our own Wolf Blitzer is interviewing Rick Santorum. And we certainly hope we're going to bring Wolf on to get a little sense of how the candidate is feeling today going into the debate this evening, what he thinks about the Iowa caucuses win and the rest of the presidential race.

We'll be having that for you very shortly, as soon as Wolf is done with that interview.

Mitt Romney has one less rival in the Republican presidential race, but he also learned today that he did not win the Iowa caucuses after all.

Jim Acosta is at a Romney campaign stop in Charleston, South Carolina.

So, Jim, let's just break it down, all these things. First of all, his reaction to the Iowa caucuses and that reversal?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I've got to tell you, Suzanne, he had no reaction to the Iowa caucuses, and it was not for a lack of trying from the media that trail him from campaign stop to campaign stop. He was peppered with questions from various reporters after his remarks here outside of his office in Charleston about what his take was on the Iowa caucus results, and he just did not answer those questions, quite frankly.

He did stop for just a few moments to answer some questions about what Rick Perry had to do this morning, which was basically drop out of this race, and -- but very brief remarks from Governor Romney. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And we're going to miss him on the stage tonight.

ACOSTA: How about those final results in Iowa, Governor? Is it fair to call it a tie when Rick Santorum came out on top?

Governor, it's been a big news day. Can you just give us a couple of comments, sir?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: OK. So those were not the full remarks from Governor Romney on Rick Perry, but I can basically paraphrase what he said.

It was just before that moment there where we were trying to ask him about Iowa. Basically, what Mitt Romney said was, you know, Rick Perry's been a great governor, a great conservative, he's been great out on the campaign trail, and we're going to miss him at tonight's debate, is basically what Mitt Romney had to say about Rick Perry.

But it's interesting, Suzanne, to see sort of the message discipline, the clamping down on the message here at this event earlier today. He had three of his top campaign surrogates here -- Nikki Haley, Rob Portman, the senator from Ohio who came out and just endorsed Mitt Romney, and Tim Pawlenty, the former Minnesota governor. And despite having all of that GOP firepower out here, it was a very sparse crowd outside of his offices here in Charleston.

It was very striking to see that. He made only some brief remarks. And then, during those remarks, did not say anything about Perry dropping out of this race, did not say anything about what happened in Iowa.

He worked in a dig on Newt Gingrich, which is right out of the Romney playbook right now, because they're worried about Newt Gingrich right now, and we've heard this over the last couple of days, when Romney was talking about the fact that President Obama is down in Disney World, talking about the economy. Mitt Romney said, well, President Obama, that's fitting, because he's been living in Fantasy Land.

But then he said he may run into the Speaker down there in Fantasy Land because, in his words, Newt Gingrich does not understand how the economy works. Washington does not create jobs, jobs are created in spite of Washington, is what Mitt Romney had to say about Newt Gingrich.

So he's going after Newt Gingrich. I think that's the message they want everybody to take from today. The other stuff, they are just not going there -- Suzanne.

MALVEAUX: We'll see if they address any of that in the debate tonight on CNN.

All right. We'll be watching. Thanks a lot, Jim.

Jim Acosta.

There's a reversal in the Iowa caucuses. You thought it was over, but it turns out that Rick Santorum is now the winner instead of Mitt Romney. I'm going to talk to Wolf Blitzer about what it means for Santorum's campaign.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: We're less than eight hours away from the CNN debate in South Carolina, two days away from the primary there. So what's on the minds of voters as they're heading to the polls?

We asked voters to give us their thoughts on faith and politics. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We may fix the economy in the short term, but unless America turns back to God, our economy repairs will be wasted.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think faith in politics is something that used to be huge, but it's just not anymore. Some schools are taking the Pledge of Allegiance out, not praying, stuff like that, taking the word "God" out from the pledge. I think that religion should be a big thing, but it's just not anymore.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A person's faith or belief in a God or a divine entity is not a big issue for me on the standpoint of who I would support. I think they all need to try to compromise a little better.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Faith is an important part of my life, but when voting, it's not something that I necessarily focus on as the primary reason for voting for a candidate. I kind of lean more towards moderate candidates or people who are willing to work with the Democratic Party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, I am a faithful person. My mom raised me right. But a lot of times, faith, once they get a position, it kind of gets kicked to the curb.

It does not play a huge role in politics for me. Faith doesn't. I sort of go with my gut.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: So, you might have thought that Mitt Romney was the winner at the Iowa caucuses. That's what we all thought. Not the case anymore. Now the state says that Rick Santorum is the winner. I'm going to talk to Wolf Blitzer about why the reversal and how much it might help the presidential candidate. He's talking to Rick Santorum.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: So it turns out that Mitt Romney did not win the Iowa caucuses after all. An official count released this morning put Rick Santorum ahead of Romney by 34 votes.

I want to bring in Wolf Blitzer. He just finished an interview with Santorum. So, I guess, that is the big question, Wolf. How we reacted to the news about his win out of Iowa?

WOLF BLITZER, ANCHOR, CNN'S "THE SITUATION ROOM": He was very excited, very happy. He got a call around 4:00 a.m. this morning from Republican officials in Iowa notifying him that he was the winner.

There were a couple other votes that potentially could give him a bigger lead when all of the political dust settles in Iowa, but he was pretty happy about it, thought it would give him momentum. He now says he won in Iowa.

He also did tell me, Suzanne, he's going ahead with the first purchases from the Santorum campaign of commercials, television commercials in Florida. He's going to Florida. He says no matter what happens Saturday, I hear in South Carolina he's going to Florida.

He started buying commercials. So he thinks he is going to emerge as the conservative alternative to Mitt Romney. He doesn't think that Ron Paul really has the credibility, if you have, or the wherewithal to actually win the Republican presidential nomination.

But he thinks he will have an opportunity to beat Newt Gingrich. He says he beat Newt Gingrich in Iowa. He beat Newt Gingrich in New Hampshire and he thinks no matter whatever happens here on Saturday here in South Carolina, he's in it in Florida as well.

So he was pretty encouraged about what was going on. He was obviously disappointed that Rick Perry didn't endorse him. He endorsed Newt Gingrich when Perry announced he was dropping out of the race suspending if you will his campaign earlier today. But, you know what, he says he's ready to fight.

MALVEAUX: Is he frustrated at all that this news out of Iowa caucuses, this win that it's just coming now that he wasn't able to take advantage of the momentum that could have come out of that win right after it happened? I mean, the contest weeks ago?

BLITZER: He sure is. He thinks he would have gotten a little bit momentum coming out of Iowa if he would have formally been declared the winner going into New Hampshire. He thinks it would have been obviously a lot better.

Even though eight votes there, 30 votes there doesn't seem like a lot, but just the words -- the winner of the Iowa caucuses, that certainly help Mitt Romney and he thinks it would have helped him.

But, you know what, he's willing to take it even two weeks late going into this contest in South Carolina and then January 31st in Florida. So he says he's going to fight on. He's frustrated, but he's determined. I think that's a fair characterization.

MALVEAUX: This is a little inside baseball. Was there anybody inside the campaign when they saw that narrow loss, the eight votes there, that thought maybe we should take a second look or third vote at the Iowa caucuses to make sure that the results are really accurate?

BLITZER: Yes. There were people I remember even at the time, some of his aides were saying to me, there are some votes out there, the process among the Republican Party in Iowa is that they were going to go through all the ballots and have a final authorized number decision within two weeks.

They said it would take two weeks and they wouldn't release any of the information in between. That's the process they have. You do the best you can, but there were some of his aides wondering, eight votes, sure everything was counted?

MALVEAUX: Right.

BLITZER: All of those were paper ballots and you can transpose a number if somebody calls in to headquarters and says six instead of 60. You know what happens.

MALVEAUX: Right.

BLITZER: So there can be mistakes and clearly there were a few mistakes.

MALVEAUX: All right, but it sounds like from your interview, Wolf, that he is looking forward and moving forward. This is an exclusive interview. Wolf's entire interview can be seen with Santorum on "THE SITUATION ROOM." It's 4:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

So all of the drama in this presidential race comes down two days before the South Carolina primary and Don Lemon has been talking to voters in South Carolina. He joins us from Charleston.

Don, first of all, the reaction, I imagine, is all about Rick Perry dropping out of the race and what that potentially means for South Carolina. What do folks think about that?

DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you're right. And then also to just sort of want to keep it real, so to speak, among the people watching for our viewers, people are talking about it. They are like, what happened?

What's up with the process that it wasn't accurate and that was two weeks ago? But the interesting thing, Suzanne, is that for the people who are here, what's most important is what's closest to them. They say Iowa. That state is away, weeks ago.

So that's kind of over with for them. And as you know, most people are concerned that what's in their own state, what's in their own backyards? And I don't think that that is going to play what happened in Iowa, what happened to Rick Santorum.

But when you talk about Rick Perry, same thing, Rick Perry didn't play really high here so they don't think it's going to have much of an impact when you think about him dropping out. If it was -- if he was number two where Newt Gingrich is, may have more of an impact.

But they think so far he's number three and a distant number three, that it's not going to have that much impact. They are focusing on the two guys who are in the number one and the number two positions here. And that is Mitt Romney and Newt Gingrich.

MALVEAUX: And what do you think they want to hear from those guys tonight at the debate?

LEMONS: What are they going to hear? There's an airplane going over. It's hard to hear. What do they want to hear? They want to hear what these guys are going to do for the economy and to boil it down, they want options.

The American people want options. If you don't have option, if you cannot sell your house, if you cannot get a job or you can't change from -- to a better job if you don't like your job, if you don't have options, then it doesn't matter.

They want a better economy and they want jobs and that's the bottom line. Social issues, as I heard in the segment you did just before the break, social issues don't really matter that much. It's important to a lot of people.

This is a very conservative part of the country. This primary involves a lot of conservative voters. People want to be able to take care of their families. I tell you what they are tired of, Suzanne, that's the in-fighting and also what you see when you turn on the television and turn on the radio you cannot go 10 seconds without a negative ad when it comes to the commercials.

And here's what people have to say about it. It's very interesting, their reaction. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am so tired of them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am pretty tired of it. I just don't like to see it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've seen so much down here, I've tuned them out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a paying contest. That's what it is. This person did this wrong back then, this one's doing this right. You know, no one's perfect. That's why we are all human, you know. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I know that this is politics. I know that this is part of the game, but do we really need to bash the members of our own party?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No matter who you listen to, if you listen to all of them, they are going to tell you that everybody is bad and all of them are awful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes me not want to vote for anybody because that's not what it's all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Yes, and Suzanne, you've been out here covering this. Sometimes in these campaigns there's a lot of enthusiasm about one or two candidates. People are just like, those are my choices. That's what I'm going to go with.

And one guy, a 70-year-old retired guy I spoke to yesterday, he predicted the Rick Perry thing. He said, listen, I'm supporting Rick Perry, but I don't think he's going to get it.

I think he's going to drop out and some other guy is going to come in and the person that came in, he didn't believe that that person could beat Barack Obama. A 70-year-old told me that in the barber shop just yesterday.

MALVEAUX: Wow, -- all right, thank you, Don. Appreciate it.

Well, he's considered one of the best basketball players of all time winning championships at every level. So what do you do for an encore? Kareen Abdul-Jabbar is now the Global Cultural Ambassador for the State Department. What is that exactly? We're going to ask him up ahead.

But first this week on "THE NEXT LIST," we feature a rising star and architecture. Take a listen to his thoughts and his life's work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The more wild ideas you want to realize, the more dry, rationale and rigorous you have to be in your approach. If you want to do the stand-up solution, you can be quite lazy. Whereas if you want to go just even a little bit beyond a conventional path, you really have to try hard to convince a whole series of authorities and clients and investors and neighbors that this is actually feasible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MALVEAUX: President Obama speaking at Disneyworld. He just told a joke where he was excited to be in a place where the leader had bigger ears than he does. I guess, he means Mickey Mouse, but he's also talking serious stuff as well, creating jobs and boosting tourism. Let's listen in.

(BEGIN LIVE SPEECH)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm glad we're here today to tell the world that America is opened for business. We want to welcome you and to take concrete steps to boost America's tourism industry so that we can keep growing our economy and creating more jobs here in Florida and all across the country.

Now here's the good news. We've got the best product to sell. We look at where we are. We've got the most entertaining destinations in the world. This is the land of extraordinary natural wonders from the Rocky Mountains to the Grand Canyon, from Yellowstone to Yosemite.

This is the land where we do big things and so have incredible landmarks like the Golden Gate Bridge and the Empire State Building, the Hoover Dam, the Gateway Arch. This is the land of iconic cities and all their sites from Independence Hall in Philadelphia, to Faneuil Hall in Boston, from the Space Needle in Seattle, to the skyline of my home town in Chicago. It's a nice skyline for those of you who've never been there. All right a couple of Chicagoans back there.

But I'm here today because I want more tourists here tomorrow. I want America to be the top tourist destination in the world. The top tourist destination in the world. And this is something that we've been focused on for some time.

Two years ago, I signed a bill into law called the Travel Promotion Act. It had broad support of both Democrats and Republicans. And as you know, that doesn't always happen. And it set up a new, non-profit organization called Brand USA.

Its job is to pitch America as a travel destination for the rest of the world to come to visit. You guys see advertising for other countries, other destinations here in the United States, right? Well, we've got to do the same thing so that when people are thinking about where they want to travel, where they want to spend their vacation, we want them to come here. And so that's already in place, but we've got to do more.

So today I directed my administration to send me a new national tourism strategy focused on creating jobs. And some of America's most successful business leaders, some who are here today, have signed up to help. We're going to see how we can make it easier for foreign tourists to find basic information about visiting America. And we're going to see how we can attract more tourists to our national parks. We want people visiting not just Epcot Center, but the Everglades --

MALVEAUX: President Obama in Disney World there promoting American tourism. Well, he is considered one of the best basketball players of all time winning championships at every level. So, what do you do for an encore? Well, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar is now the global cultural ambassador for the State Department. What does that mean? We're going to ask him after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) MALVEAUX: All right. So what first comes to mind when you hear the name Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? Probably these images, right? The basketball superstar played 20 games in the NBA (sic), won six championships. He perfected the unstoppable sky hook. Still number one scorer in league history. But did you know he is also now the global cultural ambassador for the State Department? That's right, he met with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton just yesterday and was appointed this position. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, he now joins us from New York.

My brothers are going to be so jealous that I got a chance to talk to you directly. I've been watching you since I was a kid. So, tell us, how did you get this new position, global cultural ambassador? What do you do?

KAREEM ABDUL-JABBAR, GLOBAL CULTURAL AMBASSADOR: Basically, someone recommended me to Mrs. Clinton and they gave it some thought and they decided that I might be a good choice.

MALVEAUX: And what's your job? I understand you travel around the world. Your first stop, Brazil?

ABDUL-JABBAR: Basically, it's to do personal diplomacy. Just to engage with people from other countries and other cultures and explain what America is about and let them know what we think -- what the average American really thinks about what's going on. There's so much going on now internationally that, you know, we need people out there to explain what's happening from the viewpoint of the average American. So being able to get those interactions going and have some clear communication really helps our country and I'll be in a position to do that.

MALVEAUX: That's great. I understand, in Brazil, you're going to be playing a little bit of basketball, you're going to be listening to some music, maybe beach time. But you're hardly an average American to send over as an ambassador. Let's -- I want to take you back to 2008. I interviewed your former Laker teammate Magic Johnson. He was a big Hillary Clinton fan, 6'6", and you were a Barack Obama fan. You saw Hillary Clinton yesterday. How did -- did you make nice?

ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, I don't think there was any ill feelings about it. I've had a good relationship with the Clinton family for a long time. 1996, I was at a jazz event at the White House and met the Clintons. They're wonderful people. And I've maintained those relationships ever since then.

MALVEAUX: And I noticed that you presented her with a gift. It was a jersey and a children's book that you recently wrote.

ABDUL-JABBAR: Yes.

MALVEAUX: And then there was this kind of funny moment that you guys had. I want to play this for our viewers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABDUL-JABBAR: And here's a copy of my latest book. HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: Oh, I've heard about this. Thank you.

ABDUL-JABBAR: This is for when you start to read to your grandchildren.

CLINTON: Well, let's just hope. From your lips to God's ears, right?

ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, I hope that Chelsea doesn't mind me (INAUDIBLE) personal.

CLINTON: Yes, well, I won't say a word and I'm sure my friends won't either.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: That was pretty funny there. You suggested to give it to a grandchild.

ABDUL-JABBAR: I wasn't trying to put any pressure on -- I wasn't trying to put any pressure on Chelsea, honest. You know I just -- I figured the natural course of events, that that was going to happen.

MALVEAUX: Yes, something we don't know. You know something?

ABDUL-JABBAR: No, I don't know anything. I'm just an observer here.

MALVEAUX: What do you think is the most important thing for folks to know about Americans as the ambassador? What do you think is something that people get wrong about Americans that you really want to set the record straight?

ABDUL-JABBAR: Well, I think, you know, just like President Obama was trying to get people to understand that America is a friendly place and would welcome visitors, your previous piece, I think that people that are living in other countries really don't understand what's going on here.

You know, they don't -- all they get is what they see on the news, and sometimes that's very distorted. So having someone there that knows what's going on and can explain in to them in real terms that they can make sense out of I think is important. And hopefully I'll get a chance to do that in a way that makes sense and wins us friends.

MALVEAUX: All right, well having such an aspiring figure abroad, I'm sure you'll be very successful. Thank you very much for joining us, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

ABDUL-JABBAR: My pleasure, Suzanne. Nice talking with you.

MALVEAUX: Nice to see you.

Newt Gingrich defending his food stamp claims, while former President Jimmy Carter accuses him of using language that he says appeals to racists. Which brings us to today's "Talk Back" question, is Gingrich a race baiter or a hard truth teller? "Remington says, "the old divide and conquer. Somehow it works on weak minds." More of your responses up ahead.

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MALVEAUX: Newt Gingrich turned a lot of heads, angering some, getting support from others after calling President Obama the food stamp president during a South Carolina debate that happened this week.

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NEWT GINGRICH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The fact is that more people have been put on food stamps by Barack Obama than any president in American history.

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MALVEAUX: That's not the first time that Gingrich has made this claim. He also said the same thing during a speech last year in Georgia, his home state.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRICH: President Obama is the most successful food stamp president in American history. More people are on food stamps today than at any point in American history, and he's proud of it.

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MALVEAUX: So we took a look at the claim. It's true that a record one out of seven Americans is on food stamps right now. That is 44.7 million people. Eleven million of those on food stamps joined the program on President Obama's watch. But the same number, 11 million, also signed up during the last Bush administration. And while it's true, those 11 million signed up over eight years of the Bush administration versus four years under President Obama. The worst recession since the Great Depression too place mostly on Obama's watch.

And, by the way, anyone's who monthly income falls below the poverty line, about $18,000 for a family of three, are eligible to get food stamps.

You've been sounding off on our "Talk Back" question, is Newt Gingrich a race baiter or a hard truth teller? Carol Costello with your responses.

Hey, Carol.

COSTELLO: And, of course, that question has to do with Newt Gingrich calling President Obama the food stamp president.

This from Leslie. "Newt seems to follow the plan of getting people stirred up with controversial topics and then creating a cloak of 'I have this all figured out' without presenting any real solutions but adds, 'follow me any way.' There was a reason all those people were portrayed running with Forest Gump, because that's what people do, even if they don't know why." This from Victor. "As a black man who has voted Democratic, has received food stamps, and makes less than $30,000 a year, I can say firsthand that Newt Gingrich is right. People have grown dependent on the government rather than taking care of themselves. We need jobs, not handouts."

This from Tyler. "He's both. He's a politician. What he's doing is explaining a reality in such a way that it appeals to a certain demographic. He's picking and choosing what he talks about and where -- and this is something that every politician does."

This from Glibert. "Newt is just a good old country boy. You all know what that is code for."

This from Karen. "He's a piece of work. Plain and simple."

Thanks for your comments. Facebook.com/carolcnn if you'd like to continue the conversation.

MALVEAUX: All right, thank you Carol. Let's continue CNN NEWSROOM with Randi Kaye. Hey Randi.

RANDI KAYE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello there, Suzanne.