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Makers of Thalidomide Apologized after 50 years; Father Benedict Groeschel Apologized; Wet Seal Company is being Sued
Aired September 01, 2012 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN HOST: Hello. I'm Gary Tuchman in tonight for Don Lemon. The stories you are talking about in just moment.
But first, get you up-to-speed on some of today's headlines.
A tragic air shows accident today in Iowa. Watch the center of your screen. One jet in formation suddenly broke out and trade to the ground while the audience watched breathlessly. One pilot was on board and police say he did not survive. No one on the ground was hurt though. IT happens today at the quad city air show in Davenport, Iowa.
A mandatory evacuation is in effect near Louisiana's Pearl River. Thirty five subdivisions and four mobile home parks in a Saint Tammany parish may be affected. Officials said a lock may soon fail on a nearby canal.
Meanwhile, crews intentionally breached levees near Plaquemine parish to start trimming flood waters there. The parish president says, more levees may need to be breached.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILLY NUNGESSER, PRESIDENT, PLAQUEMINES PARISH: If we wait to pump it out, it will take weeks, maybe months.
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TUCHMAN: And it is not just the water, more than 3,000 customers are still without power in the state of Louisiana.
An apology from the company that makes Thalidomide, the medicine that caused thousands of birth defects in the '50s and '60s. The company president is acknowledging that they have been silent for decades. People living with the drug's effect say they don't want apologies.
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LIONKA STEBRITZ, THALIDOMIDE VICTIM, ADVOCATE: I'm born with missing arms. My hands, as you can see, are actually at the shoulders as you can see. The actual excuse that is missing is for what damage the medicine from (INAUDIBLE) did to the thalidomide victims.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Very sad.
Spoils a boar for Syria's rebels. The free Syrian army says it ceased an air defense battalion headquarters in the east. Rebels laid siege to the air force base for 11 days before attacking. Officers say the move was tactical to prevent air strikes.
The music industry is mourning a legend. Hal David was one of the world's great song writers and co-wrote dozens of hits with Burt Bacharach including "raindrops keep falling on my head and what the world needs now is love." The 91-year-old died today in Los Angeles from complications from a stroke.
Wait until you see what we are working on tonight. CNN Saturday night for more shows dare not go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Outrage over comments about the pre-sexual abuse scandal and who is to blame? A priest says it is the children to seduce the priest.
Wanted, young hip and trendy, others need not apply.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She literally looked to my district manager and said that is the store manager. I wanted someone with blond hair and blue eyes.
TUCHMAN: Ahead, the woman who says she was fired because she's black. She joined me live.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you?
TUCHMAN: Track and hunting politicians.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I get dressed first?
TUCHMAN: Parazzi Washington style.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you today, sir?
TUCHMAN: No Hollywood glamour but a whole lot of intrigue. Then, the art for procrastination.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all have a lazy streak in us.
TUCHMAN: Lazy or maybe simply brilliant? Listen up, you lollygaggers and doggers. I'm talking to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: We begin with shocking news from the Catholic Church. It is one of the most vocal and a prominent priest in American is being condemned for comments he made in an interview with Catholic media. Father Benedict Groeschel is a 79-year-old friar author and regular of EWTM, the catholic cable TV network. You see in here he is in a video tribute to his 50 years in the priesthood. Here is what father Groeschel told the national catholic register about priests who molest children.
Quote. "People have this picture in their minds of a person planning to a psychopath. But that's not the case. Suppose you have a man having a nervous breakdown and the youngster comes after him. A lot of cases the youngster 14 to 16 is the seducer."
The fallout was imminent. The national catholic register pulled the interview and apologized for posting it in the first place. The father Groeschel 's own religious order which he himself cofounded 25 years ago has apologized and suggested Groeschel is not in his right mind.
The arch diocese of New York says and I quote, "What father Groeschel said cannot be allowed to stand unchallenged. The sexual abuse of a minor is a crime. And whoever commits that crime deserves to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law."
But you can't help but wonder why would this friar make these comments in the first place and why would the national catholic register print them?
Joining me now is Barbara Blaine. She a sexual abuse survivor and founder and survivor of the network those abused by priests, also known as snap. And I should tell, I've done several stories of Barbara and I'm a great admirer of her and her organization. They protect lots of children.
So Barbara, thanks for joining me.
BARBARA BLAINE, FOUNDER, SURVIVORS NETWORK OF THOSE ABUSED BY PRIEST: Thanks for having me. And hi, Gary.
TUCHMAN: Tell me what went through your head when you read father Groeschel's comments?
BLAINE: Well, I was at first, just shocked. I couldn't believe that I had to check the date and make sure the story was actually coming to us this week. And I feel that it's mean spirited, it's hurtful, and it's just like rubbing salt into the wounds of victims.
TUCHMAN: Barbara, this hits close to home for you. Tell me about your own experience when you were a child.
BLAINE: Well, the priest abused me when I was growing up in Toledo, Ohio. And it started in the summer between seventh and eighth grade and I thought it was my fault and he led me to believe that it was my fault. And he used to tell me that I had to go to confession and, believe me, as a child, I already felt so guilty because of what he was doing to it me. And so, I think that that had a negative impact on the development of my psyche and it caused me to develop my sense of self as being an evil and bad person. And it took a lot of years of therapy to work through that.
So to now, here we are in 2012 have this monsignor make -- I mean this Franciscan priest make these statements, it's really, really nasty.
TUCHMAN: Barbara, I want to read to you father Groeschel aftermath's statement and its entirety.
He said I apologized for my comments. I did not intend to blame the victim, a priest or anyone else who abuses a minor is always wrong and is always responsible. My mind and my way of expressing myself are not as clear they used to be. I have spent my life trying to help others the best that I could. I deeply regret any harm I have caused to anyone.
What is your response to that?
BLAINE: Well, I mean, I'm glad that he's making that statement. But, let's put it in context. I mean, his initial statements, I think, are his true feelings. And yes, father Groeschel seems to have a lot of compassion for others human beings. But it seems that he has a lot of compassion for predators. And the discussion came in the context of him discussing the fact that predator priests were living at the monastery where he works.
So, he has had a lot more contact with them. And he even suggested in the interview that a priest or someone who commits these acts the first time they should not go to jail because somehow they didn't have a criminal intent. He doesn't seem to have any sense of empathy or compassion for victims. And I believe that it's dangerous.
And I believe that - I mean, my question is whether or not he still is holding his position as a catholic theologian and commentator because he has a regular Sunday night show on the EWTN and TV catholic network. And why someone who has made these kind of remarks, from my perspective, he should be removed from that post.
TUCHMAN: It remains to be seen what happens in that case.
Barbara Blaine, it is nice seeing you again and thank you so much for talking to us today.
BLAINE: Thank you, Gary.
TUCHMAN: Well, the father didn't stop at blaming the children in these cases. He went on to almost sympathize with convicted child molester Jerry Sandusky, of all people. Wait until you hear those comments. Then,
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: The art for procrastination.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all have a lazy streak in us.
TUCHMAN: Lazy or maybe simply brilliant? Listen up, you lollygaggers and doodlers, I'm talking to you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TUCHMAN: The conversation continues as we try to understand shocking comments made by a long time catholic friar. Father Benedict Groeschel, seen here in the video tribute to his 50 years in the priesthood, is apologizing for suggesting that young victims of pedophile priests may have asked for it. But he is not just a priest immediate figure, father Groeschel is a Ph.D. in psychology.
And until very recent, he taught pastor counseling to summon areas. For decades, he counseled troubled priest at a New York retreat house.
Joining me now from Miami is Grace Carricarte. She is the executive director of the Ganley Foundation, an organization that focuses on youth mental health.
Miss Carricarte first of all, thanks for joining us. Do these comments by the father surprise you? What was your initial reaction to hearing them?
GRACE CARRICARTE, CHILD PSYCHOLOGIST: They don't surprise me. It is very sad to hear those comments. It's quite disheartening. But it doesn't shock me that have a victim blaming and unfortunately happens throughout our society when we look at rap cases and people ask what was she wearing or where was she hanging out, why was she by herself?
And when it comes to child sexual abuse cases, it is quite unfortunate that often times, these perpetrators will convinced, and Barbara hit on this, where she began to believe that it was her fault. That she experienced the sexual abuse and it is unfortunate that those misconceptions permeate our society and it is really wonderful that the story is making national headlines so we can correct some of these misconceptions.
TUCHMAN: Let me read to you another quote from the father's interview. It goes like this. It's not so hard to see a kid looking for a father and didn't have his own and they won't be planning to get the heavy duty sex, but almost romantic, embracing, kissing, perhaps sleeping but not having intercourse or anything like that.
Help us understand the difference between how an adult like that and a child, an innocent child interpret a close relationship?
CARRICARTE: You know, we're not talking about a close relationship that would naturally be where a child is looking up to an adult as a role model, a coach, a mentor. This type of issues where there's sex abuse present, if the boundaries haven't cross, that type of affection is rather inappropriate. And what we know is that these perpetrators, they target their victim and they groom them and help desensitize them so that a form of appropriate touch maybe a simple hug, a pat on the back ends up crossing the line into less and less appropriate touches and sexual behaviors end up occurring that are highly inappropriate, ill legal. And, unfortunately, because these perpetrators through threats and that manipulation goes in where the child feels powerless and could be bribery as well, forms of coercion. But that child basically is -- their voice is stripped from them as well as their power. And unfortunately, many victims of child sexual abuse never speak up about it.
TUCHMAN: Grace, in the interview with the national catholic register, father Groeschel even mentions Jerry Sandusky, the former Penn State defensive coordinator who was found guilty of sexual abusing ten boys of 15 years. Groeschel says here is this poor guy, Jerry Sandusky, went on for years. Interesting, why didn't anyone say anything? Apparently a number of kids knew about it and it didn't break the ice. Well, you know until recent years, people didn't register that it was a crime.
This is what he is saying. He's an older man but it was printed in this register and that is another issue. What do you make of all that? I mean, some could argue he is too old and that what happens sometimes or he acts older than his age. I should make it clear you could be very young at that age, you could also - but he is implying is that he is acting kind of old, but it was printed. So, what do you make of all of that?
CARRICARTE: It's an acceptable. This should never have been in print. Apologies may be a little too little late. It should have never occurred. And when you look at these types of cases, it's clear cut who - where the fault line has. It's 100 percent on the perpetrator and to make excuses is absolutely unacceptable.
These cases are not like that. It's pretty much, if anyone deserves a compassion and understanding of support it's not Sandusky, it's the child victims of sexual abuse. One out of three girls in our society, one of every five boys would have three sexual abuses and that's where empathy should be lying.
TUCHMAN: I mean, what's important to point out, you kind pointed this out already, is this - this is not-- he is not by himself making these viewpoints. I have covered so many of the stories over the years. And hear this from victims and their perpetrators. You know, perpetrators deserve jail time and I felt this way.
This father says in the interview because those committing sexual acts, and this way too, did intend to commit a crime, she should go to jail. So, how could someone believe, how can any normal person believe that sex with a child would not be a crime?
CARRICARTE: Any normal person should believe it's a crime, even perpetrators know it's a crime. How else would they decide that they have to manipulate their victims so they have to live in fear and keep it a secret? They manipulate that that secrecy and they strip that voice of that child so that they can continue to perpetuate their abuse. They know it's wrong. They know it is immoral. They know it is illegal. And there's just, no excuses.
TUCHMAN: Grace, I really thank you for your time today. This is an important topic and we appreciate you being on with us.
CARRICARTE: Thank you for having me.
TUCHMAN: Well, we have been working on this next segment for weeks now. And for some reason, we just haven't got around to it until now. It's about this book right here, and to be honest, I just started reading it and I've had it for a while. It's about playing things off. And I will talk to the author about the theory that some procrastinators are, in fact, brilliant, right?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
TUCHMAN: That's next and it will all make us feel good to hear that, if we get around to it.
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TUCHMAN: Get it done now or get it done later. Maybe get in facebook, twitter, maybe watch some TV instead. We have all done it. We have all found something else to do other than what we're supposed to be doing.
Say it with me, folks. Procrastination. Dectionary.com refers to it as the act of habit of putting off or delaying especially something requiring immediate attention. And we are all busted.
However, my next guest would argue procrastination is something to be perfected.
John Perry wrote "the art of procrastination," and would suggest procrastinators have ways of getting other things done.
John Perry, thank you for being here.
JOHN PERRY, PROFESSOR EMERITUS, STANFORD UNIVERSITY: Well, I'm glad to be here, Gary.
TUCHMAN: First of all though, what made you not delay and do something else before you got here?
PERRY: Well, I'm here for one of the many things that is going in Atlanta this weekend the Decatur book festival for I gave a talk to a hundred procrastinators today telling them they didn't need to feel like other jerks and it went over pretty well.
TUCHMAN: And the book is very funny, but it is also serious. I mean, you call it is guys to affective doodling, lollygagging and postponing. You are saying you can be a procrastinator, but this could be a good person too and get things done?
PERRY: Yes. You know, procrastination gets a bad wrapped. A lot of psychologists write articles that you can read, they tell you if you are procrastinator, you are unproductive person, you're responsible for the national - gross national product going bad. You are coming out on your own life. You are probably tends towards alcoholism and you drive everyone else crazy.
Well, baloney. I mean, not only does the national media tell us that, we tell ourselves that. But the fact is, as I it occurred to me one day, I'm a procrastinator and I get a lot done.
TUCHMAN: Well, you're a professor at philosophy at Stanford University, one of the nation's great universities. Clearly, you've gotten a lot done whatever you are.
PERRY: Yes. I have got so much done there that they retired me.
TUCHMAN: Is that true?
PERRY: Yes. Now, I teach a little bit at University of California Riverside. But, I hang around Stanford a lot.
TUCHMAN: OK. I want to read you some of the things you say of great things about procrastination say not doing one thing is a way of doing something else, the idea that you get other tasks done while avoiding the one you really need to be doing. You say lots of tasks disappear, if given the chance. And procrastination encourages productive subconscious thought. The idea it takes that a longer we take to tackle a task, the more creative we become of how to tackle it to name a few.
So, we asked around. No one seems to deny they know how to procrastinate. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Procrastination is the result of ordering around, so if you're always feeling like you're being told what to do and people are ordering you around, it's as procrastination is like a subconscious reaction to that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have 50 years worth of pictures that I'm going to scrapbook someday.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We all have a lazy streak in us and what we can put off until tomorrow, why don't we, unless it's important.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like I wake up at 5:00 a.m. in the morning and I wait until 9:00 or 10:00 in the morning tot to go to work so I do pretty much nothing for four hour, just waiting. One coffee, second coffee, I must go in the shower. Another 30 minutes, like that.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My children's homework. I should probably have them -- help them do it but sometimes I'll a little lazy and I want to sit and watch TV so at the end of the night we're cramming to do it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Procrastination is the effect of time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Procrastination makes me sick!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Makes her sick! What is your favorite procrastination pastime? That's hard to say procrastination past time, but what is it?
PERRY: Well I personally think, you know, those people are diverse. You got to distinguish between procrastinating and just being lazy.
TUCHMAN: OK.
PERRY: Lots of procrastinators are not lazy at all. They do all sorts of things as a way of not doing other things. And that's what I call structured procrastination and the book is for structured procrastinators and to suggest don't feel so bad. You're probably a positive thing in society.
TUCHMAN: John has a radio show on public radio called philosophy talk.
PERRY: Absolutely.
TUCHMAN: And do you ever procrastinate and miss it?
PERRY: No. You've gotten yourself in a profession I'm touching around the edges namely broadcasting. Where procrastination can have rather large penalties attached to it.
TUCHMAN: Right.
But, there are two kinds of procrastination. One is kind of pushing things up to the deadline and getting it done with a big adrenaline rush but making it and the other is missing it. Now, in broadcasting, you don't want to do that second kind.
TUCHMAN: John, we want to make it and we are going to make it tonight. Thank you for joining us.
PERRY: OK. Thank you, Gary.
TUCHMAN: John Perry, "the art of procrastination." Thank you very much.
Coming up, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: Wanted, young, hip, and trendy and others need not apply.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She literally looked to my district manager and said that's the store manager. I wanted someone with blond hair and blue eyes.
Ahead, the woman who says she was fired because she's black. She joins me live.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So you're out and about and not in front of a television to stay connected to CNN. You can pull it up on your cell phone lining I do or watch it from your computer even at work. Go to CNN.com/TV. Tell them Don Lemon sent you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TUCHMAN: Fired from her job and she says it's because she is black. Nicole Cogdell said she worked at the trendy clothing store Wet Seal and that she was fired from her store at the King of Prussia mall in Pennsylvania because she did not fit an image. She joins me live from Philadelphia. Also with us on the phone is Brad Seligman, her lead counsel for the class action lawsuit against Wet Seal.
I thank you both for being here.
First off, Nicole, you said you did so well at one Wet Seal store you were promoted to the store of the King of Prussia Mall, very important store for Wet Seal. So, if that's the case, why do you think you were fired?
NICOLE COGDELL, CLAIMS SHE WAS FIRED BECAUSE OF HER RACE: Basically, I did very well at this Springfield store. I was promoted at King of Prussia. The vice president of the company came in and stated that's the store manager? She wanted someone with blond hair and blue eyes. Basically, nothing was wrong with my store. I did well with customer service. I had a very excellent team. And, later, I saw an e-mail that stated that African-Americans dominate and that it was a huge issue and under my name, I was not the right fit for the store. I was later --
TUCHMAN: Let me tell our viewers that is the big development in this case. It's not just your word according to this case. There was an e-mail, lawyers say, it was written by a vice president of Wet Seal. The e-mail was forwarded to Nicole and in it, we will show it to you.
It says, quote "need diversity. African-American dominates. Huge issue."
So my question for Brad, the attorney, is this a smoking gun or a company looking to diversify?
Well, it's an astonishing e-mail to come from a major corporation in this country. And I should tell you I just got yesterday Wet Seal's formal answer in the case in which they admitted this e-mail was sent by a senior vice president of the company.
BRAD SELIGMAN, NICOLE COGDELL'S ATTORNEY (via telephone): The context is really important. The senior vice president, the vice president of stores and the president of the stores had been doing store visits and the message was given to store management around the country that they needed to make sure that there were not too many blacks on the floor, that they were concerned about the image the company and that image they wanted to project was more appealing to whites.
TUCHMAN: So, I know our viewers are wondering, OK, so what does Wet Seal say about this? We can sell you Wet Seal would not talk with CNN. But did issue this statement and it goes like this.
"The Wet Seal is committed to equal opportunity employment and proud of the diversity of our work force including African-American employees. We do not discriminate on the base of race or any other category. We are confident that when all of the facts come out in this matter the public and our customers will see that African- Americans are well represented and valued members of our employee base including our management." But Nicole, you clearly feel differently, so much so, that you're asking for a federal judge to consider this a class action lawsuit on behalf of hundreds of current and former black managers at Wet Seal. Why do you feel this issue is much bigger than your case, Nicole?
COGDELL: This issue is much bigger than my case because it's not just me, no, it's Hawkins and Miriam and many African-Americans all across the country that work for this company and, basically, you know, we just didn't fit the brand image.
If you look at that same e-mail, you'll see other problems in other stores. However, with my particular store, which was the King of Prussia store, the only problem was that I didn't fit the brand image. Our sales had increased. Our shrink was a lot better. I had an excellent team and that very same e-mail you'll see that the fixture package looked fantastic.
Well, you know, employees had to ensure that the fixture package looked fantastic. And then, if you look in that same e-mail, you'll see that the granite run store was the most embarrassing store in the company.
TUCHMAN: Nicole, let me ask you one more question because this is important even a one word answer.
COGDELL: Sure.
TUCHMAN: If you had blond hair and blue eyes, do you think you would still be at Wet Seal?
COGDELL: If I was Caucasian with blond hair and blue eyes, I would be at Wet Seal and maybe even in a higher position in terms of management.
TUCHMAN: Nicole Cogdell and Brad Seligman, thank you very much for joining us. That e-mail could certainly be damming and you see the statement though, that Wet Seal say they have a story to tell and we will see that story probably eventually.
Thank you to both of you.
Well, Mitt Romney and President Obama both want your vote. But us "the Rolling Stone" song goes, "you can't always get what you want." So just, whose vote can make it?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you OK? Here, let me help you.
My mom has been sick for as long as I can remember.
You need more methadone.
Helping her out is a bigger priority than going to school because I don't know what I would do if something happened to her. I wouldn't be able to really live. CONNIE SISKOWSKI, CNN HERO: In the United States, there are at least 1.3 million children caring for someone who's ill or injured or elderly or disabled. They can become isolated, there are physical effects, the stresses of it, and the worry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you baby, thank you so much.
SISKOWSKI: But these children suffer is silently, people don't know they exist.
I'm Connie Siskowski. I am bringing this precious population into the light to transform their lives so they can stay in school. We offer each child a home visit.
Has a ramp been comfortable?
We looked at what we can provide to meet the need. We go into the school with a peer support group and we offer out of school activities that give the child a break.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is so relaxing.
SISKOWSKI: So they know they're not alone. We give them hope for their future.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now I'm getting as and Bs and I feel more confident.
SISKOWSKI: But we have a long way to go. There's so many more children that really need this help and support.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TUCHMAN: Let's talk a little politics now and how we divide ourselves when we head into the voting booth. We just saw a Republican convention this week that featured a lot of women and minorities speakers. Even if the delegates in the hall were heavily white and mostly male.
Let's bring in Omar Ali. He is an associate professor at the University of North Carolina Greensboro. He is also the director of independentvoting.org. Anan Navarro is also here. She is a CNN contributor and a Republican strategist and she very tired after the Republican convention, she just told me. But we're glad she is here and glad to see both of you.
Thanks both of you for joining us.
Ana, Republicans obviously know America is changing. The growing number of younger nonwhite voting groups vote heavily for Barack Obama four years ago and older mostly white Republican voters won't be around forever, not a high percentage of them.
So, can the GOP and can Mitt Romney attract more minority voters? ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, they have got to try. They have got to try because the demographic changes are such that if we don't try and we don't succeed and make some inroads we will be the minority party. We are not going to get back in the White House.
And I think I've seen a lot of effort this week. I was very proud of the Hispanic speakers I saw at the RNC. And I want to tell you, they are not token Hispanic. They are genuine Republican leaders who are in an elected office and they did a terrific job. I came back to Miami. Everybody here has spoken to me today about how proud they feel and how wonderful Marco Rubio's speech was. I was in the hall and I can sell you Susana Martinez, the governor of New Mexico was also terrific, a breakout star in my view.
TUCHMAN: Omar, is it realistic for Mitt Romney to put a lot of time, a lot of money, and a lot of effort into attracting minority voters when he is running against the first black president?
OMAR ALI, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF NORTH CAROLINA GREENSBORO: Well, first of all, I'm an independent. So, I'm not a Republican strategist like Ana, and I don't, you know, want to give Republicans a council per se.
I mean, what's missing from the framing of the question is that there's a larger transformation in America under way. A culture change is what people really want. A post partisan America is what people are increasingly asking for. In fact, the majority of people don't want to be part of either the Democratic or Republican Party, quite frankly. Fifty one percent of Latinos are independent and 31 percent of African-Americans between the ages of 18 and 29 are independent as well.
So in some ways, in talking about just you know, the Republicans and Democrats own what should do what to when is missing out in a larger transformation, the historical transformation that were in the process of right now.
TUCHMAN: Ana, obviously, Mitt Romney needs a good slice of minority support to win this election. How big of a slice do you think he needs?
NAVARRO: You know, I don't think we should be focusing on the national polls like a lot of people do. We need to focus on the swing states and the minority vote there. I think he needs to do better than John McCain did. I don't think he needs to get into the high 30s or up to the 40s. It matters in places like Florida. It matters in places like Arizona. It matters in places like New Mexico and like Nevada. And I think he's got to be laser focused on those swing states and the Hispanic vote there.
And the other key question, Gary, is turnout. Will Obama have the same turnout from minorities that he had four years ago? He may have the margin this year. I expect he is going to have a very wide margin. I hope that Mitt Romney will continue working on making a dent on those margins. But the question the key question is, will he have that key second part of the winning formula, the turnout? I suspect his turnout this year will not be as good.
TUCHMAN: Well, let me ask you about the turnout, Omar. I mean, Republican independent white voters, if there is a strong turnout of the Republican's independent white voters in the swing states, can Mitt Romney win just with that?
ALI: Well, let me go back to 2008, how President Obama was elected was through a coalition of black and independent voters. That's a very important story that has been kind of pushed aside. And the independent voter right now is looking to align itself with a new coalition, a new kind of partnership in America. And I think a new kind of progressivism is under way which is pulling together African- Americans, Latino voters and independents, which is challenging the Democratic party fundamentally and in some ways also, expressive of the discontent, but the Republican Party, because of their sort of their inattention to minority voters.
But the plurality of voters in America, are the independents. Forty two percent of Americans continue to say that they don't want to be part of any political party. So that's a very important thing to be attentive to when we talk about the 2012 election because it's going to continue.
TUCHMAN: Are you hearing that, independents? You got to go out there and vote. You could put somebody in the White House. Omar, Ana, thank you so much for joining us.
ALI: Thank you.
TUCHMAN: Coming up next, hunting politicians.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: -- politicians.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I get dressed first?
TUCHMAN: Paparazzi, Washington style.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you today, sir?
TUCHMAN: No Hollywood glamour, but a whole lot of intrigue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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TUCHMAN: They don't miss a trick. Paparazzi, filming their every move, but we are not talking about Hollywood elite. We are talking politicians whose own words could be used as ammunition against them.
Joining me from Denver is Kelly Maher. She is a political video tracker for the Web site revealingpolitics.com. She is going to the Democratic National Convention next week. I met Kelly two years ago during the midterm elections in Colorado when she was applying her trade. She is very nice person, but she is tough. And Kelly, hello. What is your goal when you go to the Democratic National Convention? What are you trying to accomplish?
KELLY MAHER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, REVEALINGPOLITICS.COM: Hi Gary. It's so nice to see you again.
TUCHMAN: Thank you.
MAHER: My goals next week include finding delegates and people rallying and figuring out what they are independence in this upcoming election.
TUCHMAN: We remember the case of Representative Rob Etheridge being ambushed by two college students in 2010. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you fully support the Obama agenda?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who are you? Who are you? Who are you?
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TUCHMAN: Well, Etheridge later apologized and said there is no excuse for his behavior. So, what's the difference between as basically hunting and tracking someone down, Kelly, in the everyday pros goggle looking for the sound bite of the day?
MAHER: Well, I think that interestingly enough in this marketplace of ideas, the barrier to entry to becoming a citizen journalist is almost nothing because everyone is walking around with a smart phone that records video. So all you have to do in order to get the important clip that can change the election is show up at an event with your smart phone and wait for somebody to say what they actually think.
TUCHMAN: Some people, Kelly, would call you a gotcha machine. What do you say to that?
MAHER: Yes, I'm pretty sure you called me a one woman torpedo effort two years ago which I'm not making this up. One of my girlfriends had that printed on a t-shirt for me after you aired that piece. It was hysterical. And probably one of the best compliments I've ever gotten.
But, you know, ultimately what we are seeing is we are seeing the mainstream media, whether it's print or television, is changing and they rely more and more on bloggers and citizen journalists to come in with their cameras and their smart phones and provide a lot of that content for them. And that is largely what I do is take video at town halls and rallies and all kinds of different events waiting for people to really reveal themselves, hence the name of the Web site.
TUCHMAN: Kelly Maher, the one woman torpedo machine heads to Charlotte shortly.
Thank you, Kelly. MAHER: Yes.
TUCHMAN: Good to see you again and thanks for talking to me.
MAHER: Good to see you too.
TUCHMAN: So, what does reality TV star "Honey boo boo" have that presidential candidate Mitt Romney doesn't have? Find out next.
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TUCHMAN: Republicans were trying to win over voters during their convention. But a big chunk of Americans were watching something else on TV. They were tuning into the hit reality show, "here comes Honey boo boo." Not, boo boo bear. This is a different boo boo. In fact, in the key demographic of 18 to 49 year-old adults, the show best each individual network carrying the GOP party in Tampa, Florida.
Now, if you don't know what the "Honey boo boo" show is, here is the brief clip.
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ALANA, 6-YEAR-OLD: I'm Alana. I am six and a beauty queen. I want to win a big trophy and a lot of money.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: OK. Well, the parents put those kids on the show. That's a whole other issue. But joining us to talk about that and more is comedian Ben Gleib who is in Charlotte and siding for Democratic convention and CNN contributor and Republican strategist, Ana Navarro who is in Miami.
So Ben, how does a reality show about self-proclaim red next trump a convention?
BEN GLEIB, COMEDIAN, ACTOR: Well, I was shocked. I honestly thought they would have gotten equal ratings because they are pretty similar programs. Both of them are about entitled white people who use catch phrases that make no sense and, you know, they also exploit the poor. So, I feel like they should have been equal on that.
TUCHMAN: That is why we have Ana on with us too because I assume that your viewpoint is a little different to why so many people were watching "Honey boo boo" and not the GOP convention.
NAVARRO: Well, you know, I had never seen "Honey boo boo" child but I saw her today -- tonight coming over here. And I just think she is -- you know, she is hypnotizing in a kind of horrifying way. Maybe Mitt Romney just needs to drink some go go juice and put on a Tierra and show his bare midriff or something like that to compete with "Honey boo boo" child.
TUCHMAN: What is go go juice?
GLEIB: That is a great idea!
TUCHMAN: What is go go juice?
NAVARRO: Go go juice is some fluorescent green concoction, she drinks to get her to win the pageants.
TUCHMAN: OK. I didn't know that.
GLEIB: It's a combination of red bull and mountain dew which is what you want to give any child! Any child, give them heavy amounts of caffeine.
TUCHMAN: All right, Ben Gleib, don't go go anywhere. That's what we are going to ask you. Next, we are going to ask you something even more important.
How do you top an empty chair? Can the Democrats outshine one of the stars of the Republican convention? We will ask you that coming up, Ben.
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TUCHMAN: People cannot stop dissecting Clint Eastwood's conversation with an empty chair. You know when he switched chat with an imaginary President Obama at the Republican National Convention. Listen.
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CLINT EASTWOOD, ACTOR, DIRECTOR: What? What do you want me to tell Romney? I can't tell him to do that. I can't do that to himself. It's crazy. You're absolutely crazy. You're getting as bad as Biden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: So did Clint's chair routine strike comedy gold or was it just awkward?
Let's bring in comedian Ben Glieb who is in Charlotte, beside of Democratic convention and CNN contributor and Republican strategist Ana Navarro who is in Miami.
Should the Democrats, Ana, even try to top this speech in Charlotte and of use of a chair or props or something like that? And if Democrats try to top it, who should they get?
NAVARRO: What? What? What should I tell Gary? My friend here wants you to know that Democrats, they just have empty chair envy syndrome. And they are going to top the empty chair. They are going to have Charlie Crist, the man with the empty brain. So, yes, they are ties. And being an empty chair is a lot better than being an empty brain like Charlie Crist is.
TUCHMAN: Wow. Some nasty stuff about Joe Biden and Charlie Crist, we need some equal time for Ben Gleib. I should tell that, I honestly, viewers, I did not know she had an empty chair beside her. That was a surprise to me also, just so you know. Ben, what do you think? What do you think the Democrat should do?
GLEIB: Of course, that is hard to top because it's a genius move the way to make Romney seem like a stable solid centered leader is to have him follow an 82-year-old man rambling to his imaginary friend. So, you can't really top it. Maybe they could have a hologram Romney, because just like the real Romney you can see right through it.
TUCHMAN: We can do, hologram at CNN. We done it before, maybe we will do it again. We will see.
At certain points as we know, Clint Eastwood rambles. Was that a plan part of routine or was he just forget is his lines? Let's play a clip of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EASTWOOD: People -- people are wondering -- you don't. You don't have it? OK. I wondered about, you know, when -- when the -- what?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TUCHMAN: So do you think one word answers from the chair washings that planned or not? Ana?
NAVARRO: Not planned and nobody tells dirty Harry to shut up.
TUCHMAN: Ben?
GLEIB: Definitely not planned and real shame, real shame. Could have planned something better.
TUCHMAN: Ben, and Ana, nice talking to us both tonight. Thank you for talking to us about all the funny and interesting things that have happened in this political world. Good to see both of you.
GLEIB: Thanks for having us.
TUCHMAN: And thanks for watching us tonight from CNN world headquarters in Atlanta. I'm Gary Tuchman. We hope you have a wonderful evening.
