Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Anti-American Violence Spreading; Search For Killers Of U.S. Diplomats; Neil Armstrong Memorialized; New Protests In Cairo; Clinton Comments On New Cairo Protests; New Yemen Protests; Obama Ramps Up Talks with Middle Eastern Leaders
Aired September 13, 2012 - 10:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: And good morning to you. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for being with us this morning. We are watching two big stories in the Newsroom.
Tensions still rising in the middle east all over an anti-Muslim movie shot here in the united states. Overnight more anti-American protests across the region. And a U.S. embassy nearly breached.
Here at home, the nation says goodbye to the first man to walk on the moon. A memorial service just starting at the National Cathedral for Neil Armstrong.
But we begin with the anti-American violence now spreading the Middle East. First stop is the capital of Yemen. This morning, protesters tried to storm the U.S. Embassy there, scaling massive gates and setting fires outside the compound. Riot police finally restore order.
Overnight, a similar scene outside the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, Egypt. It is the second night of protest over that film produced in the U.S. and considered insulting to Islam.
In the meantime, the U.S. military ramps up the search for the militants who killed American diplomats at the U.S. Consulate in Benghazi, Libya. Drones are in place. Two warships and dozens of Marines are en route.
We are covering all of these from every angle, from every point of this developing story. So let's get the latest from the region now.
Mohammed Jamjoom is in our Beirut Bureau. Hi, Mohammed.
MOHAMMED JAMJOOM, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Carol, a western diplomat at Sana'a tells me that everyone at the U.S. Embassy is OK, although there is no word yet from embassy officials if the U.S. Embassy in Sana'a was in fact evacuated today after having been attacked.
Now eyewitnesses on the scene are saying that the crowd has really dispersed in the last couple of hours, but now there's only dozens of people outside the U.S. Embassy whereas earlier today, there were thousands of angry demonstrators, some of which scaled the wall there and breached embassy security. Now Yemeni President Abd Al-Rab Mansur Hadi issued a statement in which he apologized for these attacks to U.S. President Barack Obama and to Americans in general. He said that he has asked the Yemeni security officials to thoroughly investigate the incident.
And also to fully prosecute to the fullest extent of the law anybody who may have been involved in these attacks today. Yemeni officials telling me that it is extremely worrying that it happened today.
And many eyewitnesses that we've spoken with say they just can't fathom how exactly a crowd of angry demonstrators could get so close to the U.S. Embassy in Sana'a, which is one of the most protected sites not just in the capital of Yemen, but in all of Yemen itself -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Mohammed Jamjoom reporting.
Also this morning, we have just gotten a picture of another one of the victims in that deadly attack on the U.S. Embassy in Libya. His name is Shawn Smith. He was a 10-year employee of the State Department.
Barbara Starr is following the search for his killers. She joins us now from the Pentagon. Good morning, Barbara.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, Carol, yesterday, President Obama said justice will be done. Now we are beginning to see some of the initial elements being put into place possibly, possibly for some type of military action.
We want to emphasize that nothing is set yet. These are the elements we are watching very carefully. First stop, drones, unmanned drones, U.S. drones flying over Eastern Libya.
These are the stronghold of the militia groups and the al Qaeda elements that have been operating in Libya that the U.S. feels may be responsible for the attack.
These drones are flying and collecting the surveillance overhead and imagery and looking for any indication of the groups that they might be able to tie to the attack in Benghazi.
If they find a target, one of the options on the table, two U.S. Navy warships are now moving toward the coast of Libya. They are equipped with Tomahawk missiles. Those missiles could be used to strike a target.
We want to emphasize. We're not saying they will. We don't know. You know, this is -- this is all the things that one can only watch being put into place, and begin to discuss that these are the kinds of elements the U.S. military has on hand and has used in the past.
So we are beginning to see that typical pattern of a military response being put in place, an option, if you will, for the president should he decide to use it -- Carol.
COSTELLO: So, how is the U.S. military if at all working with the Libyan government, do we know?
STARR: Well, the Libyan government by all accounts, U.S. officials tell us, is very aware of the drone flights. They know and these flights have happened in the past. Eastern Libya even since the war ended in Libya has been a place that the U.S. has kept a very close eye on.
Government officials in Libya know that. It is possible that you raise a really interesting prospect that the U.S. might say, okay, here is the intelligence and turn it over to Libyans and say, now, it is your responsibility, and you go after these people.
The problem, of course, is that this area of Eastern Libya where these groups hang out is not really under significant government control, a lot of militia and tribal elements out in that area.
So there is concern about what the Libyan government will be able to go after it if they can determine a target that they feel is responsible -- Carol.
COSTELLO: Barbara Starr, reporting live for us from the Pentagon.
On to Neil Armstrong now, he has been called a humble private man. CNN recently visited with James Hansen, Armstrong's biographer. He tells us why those personality traits help make Armstrong the right man for NASA at the right time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES HANSEN, NEIL ARMSTRONG'S BIOGRAPHER: I think Neil felt that he knew that other astronauts could have made the landing. The commission passed for 11, I think all three of the astronauts, but the commander, Armstrong felt it was important that it was a national effort.
This was a team effort and to have the names of the astronauts was really, you know, it was not need, and it was not really the message. In terms of deciding who would be the first out between Aldrin and Armstrong, they both landed at the same time, so he did not see an emphasis of him being the first out.
NEIL ARMSTRONG: It is one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.
HANSEN: There was some thinking about, well, which of the two men will best -- you know, will best represent NASA, the country and humankind as the years go by, and there was really a conscious decision by senior management that Armstrong was the new Lindberg.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: As we have been telling you today, the nation and all of us get to say a final goodbye to an American hero. Right now, memorial services are under way for Neil Armstrong, the first man to walk on the moon. Armstrong passed away last month following complications of heart surgery. He was 82. John Zarrella is at the Washington National Cathedral. Hi, John.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol. You are right. Just moments ago, the ceremony began, and the bagpipes first playing and many people, about 2,000 in all in attendance. We know that we saw moments ago a shot of Buzz Aldrin, the astronaut along with Neil Armstrong became the first two men to walk on the surface of the moon.
John Glenn was also there sitting next to Aldrin with his wife and Glenn, of course, Senator John Glenn, the first American to orbit the earth. We know that Gene Cernan is there as well, the last man on Apollo 17 to walk on the moon. He will be speaking.
There are many, many dignitaries in attendance as well as the general public. And you know, Carol, it is so interesting and in some ways such a contradiction because here was this incredibly private, incredibly humble man in Neil Armstrong who shied away from the public light.
Who shied away from all of the accolades that were being thrown at him for his accomplishment, and always saying that it was the team effort and not an individual effort, and here is this tremendous outpouring of public support for a man who most of us did not know very well at all -- Carol.
COSTELLO: But had such an impact on so many lives. Is there a connection between Neil Armstrong and the cathedral?
ZARRELLA: You know, there really is a connection. Back in 1974 on the fifth anniversary of that first moon walk, Neil Armstrong and Buzz Aldrin and Mike Collins, the command module pilot who is also here and he will be leading in the prayer today.
The three of them presented a sliver of moon rock to the National Cathedral, and there is a stained glass window in the cathedral called the space window.
and in that window is that piece of moon rock, and again, you can see that the ceremony there, Carol, just now getting under way and expected to last at least 90 minutes -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right, we will be back to you. Thanks. John Zarrella reporting live from the Washington National Cathedral this morning.
We understand there are fresh protests in Cairo, Egypt. Overnight there were violent protests there in front of the U.S. Embassy. We want to go to Mona Eltahawy. Mona, what's happening in Cairo now?
MONA ELTAHAWY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): First of all, I want to make it clear, Carol, I'm not at the site of the embassy, but following the news like you have. I'm hearing that clashes have been identified between protesters and the riot police there.
And this is a very different scene than we saw on the first day when there was very little security outside of the U.S. Embassy and protesters were able to scale the wall.
I want to stress very much that the riot police in Egypt have a notorious history of brutality and I think any loss of life or any injury at this time is pointless whether it is over film or right wing fringes on either side in the U.S. or in Egypt trying to make the most of this to use physical manipulation.
It is a very sensitive time in Egypt because there are discussions about emergency law. We lived under the emergency law from 1981 to last year when it was suspended.
The last thing that those of us will care about the resolution is to see resumption of the emergency law. So again I say any waste of life or loss of life or any injury is utterly pointless at this time and I hope that things calm down.
COSTELLO: I know I see the tear gas being fired by the riot police now to drive those protesters back from the U.S. Embassy. It is Egypt's responsibility to protect embassies within its country though. So what are the police supposed to do if these protesters keep storming the embassy?
ELTAHAWY: Well, that is why that first day was so confusing. The U.S. Embassy is in an area of Cairo that is usually difficult to get to because it is full of other foreign embassies and the U.S. one in particular was treated like a fortress.
I mean, when protesters tried to get there to protest the U.S. invasion of Iraq, it was impossible and they were beaten back and again, I do not call for beating any peaceful protesters. As I said, riot police are notoriously brutal.
Security forces in Egypt are very brutal. So that first day when it was very little security response I think that left a gap and people were wondering where the government was, where our president was, and where security services are.
Because yes, it is the responsibility of the government to protect a foreign embassy because it is considered foreign territory, but again, the last thing I want is any brutality from the Egyptian police force.
I support peaceful protests. It is not worth it to get into violence whether it is a film or political manipulation of people's sensitivities.
COSTELLO: I mean, I would think that it might be a little difficult because we have seen some violence on the part of those protesters as far as climbing the walls and throwing Molotov cocktails.
ELTAHAWY: Yes, that is what I am saying. I am saying on both sides, we are seeing an escalation, which is utterly unnecessary. The last thing we want to see is the escalation on both sides being used as an excuse to bring back emergency law.
We are fight for more freedom in Egypt and not less so the big question mark is why was the Egyptian government led by Mohamed Morsi so slow to respond the first day and where was security not to beat people, but to protect the embassy?
And another question is why is the embassy being targeted when the U.S. administration is not behind this film? That is why I am bringing up the point of the political manipulation. There is a lot happening right now and it is very complex and the violence does not help.
COSTELLO: OK, let's explore that issue what you just said, so is there a large anti-American sentiment within Egypt and is it growing? How would you characterize it?
ELTAHAWY: There definitely has been an anti-U.S. sentiment in Egypt. When I was on your show earlier, I mentioned that five U.S. administrations have supported the Hosni Mubarak dictatorship. This is something that has not been forgotten in Egypt.
The fact that U.S. supported the dictator against us, the people, and that sentiment is there and not dissipated, but the resolution that was fathered last year was a resolution for freedom and dignity.
So now it is complicated obviously by the anti-U.S. sentiment. So there are many groups willing and able and ready to take and make the most to exploit the anti-U.S. sentiment just as there is a fringe group in the U.S. that created this film to provoke.
So my point all along has been that it's not to be politically manipulated by the right wing by either side, which has enough ammunition to be used, but we don't want to be political footballs.
There is a long way to go in Egypt and the last thing we want to do is to be caught in a fight outside of an embassy when we have poverty and unemployment and quite frankly as Muslims, we have the right to protest.
If someone wants to protests just someone has the right to create whatever they want whether we find it offensive or not, but the issue is who is manipulating us, and what do they want to do with the manipulation.
There is an election coming up in the U.S. in November. We are discussing right to protests in most regions in Egypt. There is a lot at stake on both sides here.
COSTELLO: Mona Eltahawy, thank you so much for being with us this morning to explain. We are going to take a break. We'll be back with much more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: All right, let's take you back the Cairo, Egypt, because there is breaking news there again this morning. Fresh protests are breaking out in front of the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, Egypt.
If those pictures were moving, you would see the riot police throwing tear gas at these protesters trying to drive them away from the U.S. Embassy. The protests are going on overnight and into this morning. They have briefly stopped and then started up again. Let's head to our State Department correspondent, Elise Labott, to put this in -- excuse me, Elise, Secretary Hillary Clinton is now speaking. Let's listen.
HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: Let me take a moment to address the video circulating on the internet that has led to these protests in a number of countries. Let me state very clearly and I hope it is obvious that the United States government had absolutely nothing to do with this video.
We absolutely reject its content and message. America's commitment to religious tolerance goes back to the very beginning of our nation. And as you know, we are home to people of all religions.
Many of whom came to this country seeking the right to exercise their own religion including of course millions of Muslims. And we have the greatest respect for people of faith. To us, to me, personally, this video is disgusting and reprehensible.
It appears to have a deeply cynical purpose, to denigrate a great religion and to provoke rage. But as I said yesterday, there is no justification, none at all, for responding to this video with violence.
We condemned the violence that has resulted in the strongest terms and we greatly appreciate that many Muslims in the United States and around the world have spoken out on this issue. Violence, we believe, has no place in religion and is no way to honor religion.
Islam, like other religions respect respects the fundamental dignity of human beings, and it is a violation of that fundamental dignity to wage attacks on innocence. As long as there are those who are willing to shed blood and take innocent life in the name of religion, the name of God, the world will never know a true and lasting peace.
It is especially wrong for violence to be directed against diplomatic missions. These are places whose very purpose is peaceful to promote better understanding across countries and cultures.
All governments have a responsibility to protect those spaces and people because to attack an embassy is to attack the idea that we can work together to build understanding and a better future.
Now, I know it is hard for some people to understand why the United States cannot or does not just prevent these kinds of reprehensible videos from ever seeing the light of day.
Now I would note that in today's world with today's technologies that is impossible. But even if it were possible, our country does have a long tradition of free expression, which is enshrined in our constitution and in our law.
We do not stop individual citizens from expressing their views no matter how distasteful they may be. There are, of course, different views around the world about the outer limits of free speech and free expression.
But there should be no debate about the simple proposition that violence in response to speech is not acceptable. We all whether we are leaders in government, leaders in civil society or religious leaders must draw the line at violence.
Any responsible leader should be standing up now and drawing that line. I wanted to begin with this statement because as our Moroccan friends and all of you know, this has been a difficult week at the State Department.
I very much appreciate, Minister, the condolences that your embassy expressed to our embassy, and even though that tragedy happened far away in Benghazi, we found a reminder of the deep bonds that connect Morocco to the United States.
It was in the high atlas mountains of Morocco that one of the Americans we lost this week, Ambassador Chris Stevens, fell in love with the region when he served as a Peace Corps volunteer there.
That experience sent him on a decades' long career of service so in the memory of our fallen friends and colleagues, let us remind ourselves of the many ways in which not just our governments, but the people of our two nations have worked together to build a better future.
In many ways the United States looks to Morocco to be a leader and a model. His majesty King Mohammed deserves great credit for the work that you have undertaken. In fact, after my visit to Rabat --
COSTELLO: We are going to jump away from this with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton talking at the State Department to an audience filled with Moroccans apparently, but it was interesting what she said at the beginning of that talk to her audience.
Let's go to the State Department correspondent Elise Labott. It was interesting that Hillary Clinton began her remarks with the United States had absolutely nothing to do with that video, with that film that is on YouTube. Why did she say that?
ELISE LABOTT, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think, Carol, in the region, when you see an American video coming out, you think it is a big Hollywood, and in the Middle East where they don't really understand that the freedom of the press, and the freedom of expression.
They understand a big -- they think of it as a big Hollywood production, and of course, it had a Washington's OK and OK blessing. It does not really understand. So Secretary Clinton really wanted to get out to say, listen the United States government does not have anything to do with this video, does not believe in the views that this video espouses.
But also, wanting to make clear how the U.S. and the U.S. people feel about Islam, but at the same time making clear that in a democracy such as the United States freedom of the press and freedom of expression is very important.
Secretary Clinton has said many times an election does not a democracy make. At the same time, she really wants to get in front of these ideas that this video represents how the U.S. feels about Islam.
She also needs to strike a careful balance to say, listen, in countries like Egypt and in countries like Yemen and Libya, we helped you fight for your democracy. This is what a democracy is.
COSTELLO: Elise Labott reporting for us live. Thank you so much. We are going to take a quick break. We will be back with much more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: We have new pictures in from Yemen, the capital there, and as you can see fires still burning in the streets in front of the U.S. Embassy there.
Earlier this morning, the heavy metal gates in front of the U.S. Embassy were taken down. You can see the Yemeni government forces trying to contain these protesters.
In fact, earlier this morning, the Yemeni government sent out a statement saying that everything was calm and they had the situation under control.
But in the hours that followed as you can see, the protest continues, the violence continues, and the Yemeni government is trying to get a handle on the situation.
When we get more information from this region, of course, we will pass it along to you.
Just minutes ago, we heard from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton talking about that film that has sparked all of this violence across the world.
She wanted to make sure that everyone across the world knew that the United States government had nothing whatsoever to do with that film on YouTube. So who was behind it? Here's Brian Todd.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The film tied to the violence is called "Innocence of Muslims," an amateurish crude production depicting the Prophet Mohammad as a womanizing, violence provoking thug where portions of dialogue are poorly dubbed in.
CNN is not airing any part of it. According to reports published in the "Wall Street Journal" and the Associated Press, the filmmaker is a real estate developer from California named Sam Bacile.
A man identifying himself as Bacile told the "Wall Street Journal," Islam is a cancer. We couldn't find information about in checking databases for Hollywood productions or real estate records. Raising questions about whether the name Sam Bacile is a pseudonym. We spoke to Steve Klein who says he consulted with Bacile on the film. I asked him about Bacile's reaction to the violence in Libya and Egypt.
STEVE KLEIN: He's very depressed, he's upset. I talked to him this morning and he said that he was very concerned for what happened to the Ambassador.
TODD (on camera): Klein says Bacile is worried about his own safety and is in hiding. Through Klein we tried to get Bacile to speak to us and we're told he would not. Klein says he hasn't known Bacile for very long, he says Bacile told him the film cost about $5 million to make with at least 50 people in the cast and crew.
(voice-over): A team that's now furious over this movie. In a statement to CNN they said "The entire cast and crew are extremely upset and feel taken advantage of by the producer. We are 100 percent not behind this film and were grossly misled about its intent and purpose. We are shocked by the drastic rewrites of the scripts and lies that were told to all involved."
(on camera): Did you or Mr. Bacile have any sense that this film would cause the fallout that it apparently has?
KLEIN: Absolutely not. It's -- when I spoke to him, we knew that it was going to cause some friction if anybody paid attention to it and when we first showed it, nobody paid attention to it. So I pretty much forgot about it after I went to Hollywood and saw that nobody went to it.
(CROSSTALK)
TODD: But if you knew it would cause friction -- I'm sorry to interrupt -- but if you knew it would cause friction, could you not I guess presuppose that it might cause violence in the Middle East I mean if these things get on the Internet and they just go viral.
KLEIN: Well, that's the interesting point, for example when you started the interview you asked if I was afraid to show my face here or to speak about this and so my question is in America why should I be afraid?
TODD (voice-over): Klein says the film merely shows what he calls "The facts, evidence and proof about radical Islam", Klein says he's not anti-Muslim.
(on camera): Do you or Mr. Bacile feel that you have any blood on your hands as a result of the violence?
KLEIN: That's a very good question. Under the rules of engagement in Vietnam when I killed a North Vietnamese army in the Vietcong, I go to bed every night with no blood on my hands. It does not bother me a bit. In this case with the Ambassador I did not kill these people. It is they who pulled the trigger, it is they who murdered the Ambassador. TODD: Klein says he's a Vietnam veteran, a former Marine who served in combat there. He says his own son was wounded by a suicide bomber in Iraq while he was working with the U.S. Army on a civil program there.
Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COSTELLO: All right. Let's head back to Yemen where violence sparked by that very film is continuing. Mohammed Jamjoom, you've been watching events unfold all morning long. Earlier this morning the Yemeni government said it had things under control, does it?
JAMJOOM: Well Carol, Yemeni officials are saying that they do have it under control and we're hearing from the eyewitnesses on the scene that the crowd has really dispersed that earlier in the day, there were perhaps thousands of people outside the embassy but that now there are only dozens. But we are seeing new dramatic video of what was going on earlier in the day, and in this video, you see this angry mob that was outside of the embassy. You see smoke rising from within the compound walls.
We were told by eyewitnesses that there were cars that were set on fire and tires that were set on fire and you also see how water cannons were deployed by Yemenis security forces to try to disperse the crowd. This was an angry mob, angry about this film that they say was insulting to Muslims and they directed their anger towards the U.S. embassy.
What I'm hearing again and again not just from Yemeni officials but also from activists and eyewitnesses in Yemen is they are wondering just how an angry mob 2,000 to 3,000 people were able to get as close as they did to the embassy and actually breached the security of the embassy to penetrate the security wall outside of the embassy compound.
We spoke about this earlier, I've been to the U.S. Embassy in Yemen, I've been to Sana'a on many occasions. This is essentially a fortress, this is one of the most heavily guarded sites not just in the capital but also in all of Yemen. And I'm just hearing shock and disbelief today from people that saw this going on as to how these people could have gotten this close. How the Yemeni security forces could have allowed a angry mob that was chanting anti-American slogans obviously heading towards the American embassy. How they were able to get that close.
Now, I spoke to a western diplomat at the embassy who told me that everybody at the embassy is accounted for and safe, he also told me that there was no evacuation at the U.S. embassy today, but right now the concerns are even though the mob has dispersed, what will happen later in the evening. There have been some calls apparently according to Yemenis I'm speaking with for -- for protests to start once again after evening prayers. Whether or not that happens we just don't know, but we will be following the situation very closely and reporting the latest to you as we know it -- Carol. COSTELLO: Of course Mohammed Jamjoom, thank you very much.
Just a few minutes ago Secretary of State Hillary Clinton made a statement about that film. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: This video is disgusting and reprehensible. It appears to have a deeply cynical purpose to denigrate a great religion and to provoke rage. But as I said yesterday, there is no justification, none at all, for responding to this video with violence. We condemn the violence that has resulted in the strongest terms.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: Joining us now is Michelle Dunne from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. She served as the Middle East specialist in the State Department and the White House. Welcome Michelle.
MICHELLE DUNNE, CARNEGIE ENDOWMENT FOR INTERNATIONAL PEACE (via telephone): Thank you.
COSTELLO: The Secretary of State also made sure to say that the United States government was not behind this film. Clearly a message for the people around the world, don't you think?
DUNNE: Yes. I think that the Obama administration is having to walk a very careful line here between acknowledging that this film, privately-produced film which has nothing to do with the U.S. government was highly-offensive. And -- but at the same time, of course, the Obama administration does not want to indicate that any violent response is somehow justified.
So and they do want to stand up for freedom of speech. Of course this kind of speech is permitted in the United States, even highly offensive speech, as long as it's not incitement to violence.
COSTELLO: I know -- we are looking at pictures now from Cairo, Egypt, where protests have been going on well, pretty much all last night and some into this morning. You can see that the Egyptian government is fighting back against these protesters, but I was talking to an Egyptian journalist who is afraid that the violence will get worse and maybe we'll see a repeat of what happened last year.
DUNNE: Well, I mean, what we've seen happen initially was that Salafist who are Islamist who are more extreme than, you know, the Muslim Brotherhood Islamist who are now in government have been I think really using this provocative film as a way to show the Egyptian government that they can make a lot of trouble and that they have to be heard.
They are pushing for example for more extreme language in the Egyptian Constitution about Islam and language against religious blasphemy and so forth. So I think they are using this within their own Egyptian political context.
And then we've seen some of these young activists called "Ultras" who are, you know, they are -- they are soccer -- sort of soccer hooligans, and they like to provoke conflict with the police, and they've gotten involved in these demonstrations.
So now we're seeing at the moment relatively small numbers demonstrating around the U.S. embassy, but getting rather violent and having, you know, conflicts back and forth with the police.
COSTELLO: It was interesting, too, what President Obama said on "60 Minutes" about Egypt not being our ally and Egypt of course as you know through history has -- has always been an ally of the United States an important country in the region especially as it applies to Israel. What do you make of the President's comments?
DUNNE: I think that -- I think it was a little bit of a strange choice of words to say that Egypt -- Egypt is not an ally, but I -- I think that his purpose is to put President Morsi on notice that -- that he really has to do what's necessary to prevent the escalation of these demonstrations in Cairo to what we have seen for example in Libya.
That clearly we have seen that the lives of Americans there are very much, you know, in danger and so he is trying to send a message to Morsi, you know, the U.S. government is talking about a large debt relief package for Egypt and other things that the United States would like to do for Egypt to help it in a transition to democracy.
But I think that President Obama here is drawing a line and saying, you know, you as the Egyptian President, have obligations, too, if you're going to be an ally of the United States.
COSTELLO: We have that exact sound bite, as we call it in the business, from the President. Let's listen to it now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You know, I don't think that we would consider them an ally, but we don't consider them an enemy. So I think it's still a work in progress, but certainly in this situation, what we're going to expect is that they are responsive to our insistence that our embassy is protected and our personnel is protected.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: In the midst of all of this Michele, as you well know, there is a -- there is an election going on and Governor Romney says that the Obama administration is not being tough enough. Is he right?
DUNNE: Look, I think in this -- in this specific instance of these demonstrations and -- and what has happened in Libya, I think that the response of the Obama administration has been appropriate.
If we step back though and look at a broader frame of U.S. policy in the Middle East and indeed U.S. foreign policy in the world, I -- yes, I think there's an argument to be made that the United States has not taken the leadership role it really should, that there is very widespread disappointment in the Middle East for example that the United States is not doing more regarding Syria, that the United States hasn't done as much as people hoped to help these nascent democracies in Tunisia, Egypt and Libya.
So there is a way in which what Governor Romney said is justified.
COSTELLO: Michelle thank you very much. Michelle Dunne, from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. Thank you for providing perspective for us this morning. We appreciate it.
When NEWSROOM continues, we'll take you live to the White House.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Protests, some of them violent, going on all morning long. Some have become a little calmer. Let's head to Yemen now we've just got these pictures in just about a few minutes ago. This is from earlier this morning, this is outside of the U.S. embassy in the capital of Yemen.
As you can see, Yemeni authorities trying to thwart the protesters, some fires were set outside the embassy, and the U.S. embassy was actually breached by the protesters a couple of hours ago.
Now let's head to Cairo, Egypt, where protesters are still outside the U.S. embassy there. There have been clashes between the Egyptian riot police and the protesters. These are actually live pictures of what's happening right now.
As you can see, tear gas is being lobbed by the riot police at the protesters to disperse the crowd, but the crowd keeps coming back. We will keep you posted.
Here in this country, President Obama is voicing his concerns over escalating tensions and anti-American sentiment in the Middle East. He is reaching out directly to the leaders of Libya and Egypt, but we are now learning that the President's tone during those conversations was very different.
Brianna Keilar at the White House to explain. Good morning.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. You know, if you didn't know much about the dynamics between the U.S. and Libya, and U.S. and Egypt you might think that when President Obama got on the phone with the leaders of these two countries, it would be the leader of Libya who would get the earful from him because that is where the Americans were killed in this violence.
However, that is not the case. The tone of President Obama's conversation with Egyptian president Morsi was much more harsh and he was very much holding him to account in needing to protect any U.S. personnel that are in Egypt.
The reason for the difference in tone has to do with the response from these two countries. Libya, very quick to condemn these attacks, to offer cooperation in the aftermath of the attacks. And then you look at President Morsi of Egypt and not only did he not only not explicitly condemn the attacks, the Muslim Brotherhood, which he is a part of, actually praised the attacks.
Morsi instead focused his outrage on that anti-Islamic film that prompted some of the protests and you have the Muslim Brotherhood that's actually enflaming anti-American sentiment, Carol, planning protests near the embassy, the U.S. embassy in Cairo tomorrow, which obviously is of very much concern to the Obama administration -- Carol.
COSTELLO: So what leverages, if any, does President Obama have the Egyptian president?
KEILAR: You know, there is a lot, but it is also kind of a tricky situation, because the U.S. wants to maintain some stability in Egypt. But because Egypt is moving in a hostile direction there are definitely some places where there is some leverage.
There is about more than $1 billion in direct aid that the U.S. has. There's $1 billion in loan forgiveness that is currently being negotiated as we speak. There's also an almost an almost $5 billion loan from the IMF that the U.S. supports and could influence. And then there is another big thing, and this was something that we talked about during the Arab Spring.
The U.S. is trying to encourage American businesses to invest in Egypt and get the economy going there. And when you talk to some of their observers they say this is the kind of stuff that the administration needs to say to Egypt. You know, this is on hold until you can guarantee that you are not moving in a hostile direction and then certainly at the very least that you can provide safety to our personnel who are in your country trying to help move things forward.
COSTELLO: Brianna Keilar reporting live for us from the White House.
We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back with much more on NEWSROOM.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Today, we get a final chance to say good-bye to an American hero. Right now memorial services underway for Neil Armstrong, the first man to walk on the moon. Armstrong passed away last month following complications from heart surgery. He was 82.
John Zarrella joins us now from the Washington National Cathedral. Good morning.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol.
Well, the ceremony continuing now inside of the National Cathedral, and right now the homily being delivered by the Episcopal bishop of Washington, Reverend Marian Edgar Budd. She is giving that homily right now. We know that in the audience already gathered there about 2,000 people -- a packed house.
A very, very public memorial for a very private man. Just a few minutes ago Gene Cernan, the last man to walk on the moon, talked haltingly and his voice cracking at times about his good friend Neil Armstrong and talking about how none of it was ever about Neil. It was always about the team.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GENE CERNAN, MISSION COMMANDER, APOLLO 17:Neil Armstrong was a sincerely humble man of impeccable integrity, who reluctantly accepted his role as the first human being to walk on another world.A nd when he did, he became a testament, a testament to all Americans of what can be achieved through vision and dedication.
But in Neil's mind, it was never about Neil. It was about you, your mothers and fathers, your grandparents. About those of a generation ago who gave Neil the opportunity to call the moon his home. But never, ever was it about Neil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZARRELLA: In the audience as well today, John Glenn, of course, with his wife, Annie. He was the first American to orbit the earth. Buzz Aldrin, who along with Neil, walked on the moon and Michael Collins who was the command module pilot for the Apollo 11 mission.
In just a few minutes after the homily is done here, we expect to hear from Mike Collins. He is going to read a prayer following this homily -- Carol.
COSTELLO: All right. John Zarrella reporting live from the Washington National Cathedral this morning.
Well, the hunt is on to find whoever killed our U.S. ambassador to Libya. We are going to talk with General Spider Marks about the search, and if it is possible at all to catch the people responsible. We will be back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: In the wake of the deadly attack in Libya, the United States has turned its focus to the search for those responsible for killing four American diplomats. President Obama vowing to find the suspects.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, we mourn for more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America. We will not waiver in our commitment to see that justice is done for this terrible act. And make no mistake, justice will be done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSTELLO: On the phone with us right now from near Tucson, Arizona, General Spider Marks. Thanks for being with us this morning, General.
MAJ. GEN. JAMES "SPIDER" MARKS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you, Carol.
COSTELLO: Who do you think is to blame for this attack?
MARKS: Well, clearly there are terrorist groups that are multiplying in kind of locally and radicalizing themselves. I would say the heart of this is AQ, al Qaeda, and it's a local brand.
I think it is important that we not identify these terrorists as suspects. This isn't a criminal act; this is an act of war against the United State and that needs to be identified accordingly.
COSTELLO:I know that the United States has warships on the way to the coast of Libya. I know that drones are already flying over the country. What is the first step? What are they looking for? Is it sort of like finding a needle in a haystack at this point?
MARKS: Well, it is. But the good news is we have, and I know that various intelligence agencies have connections to sources on the ground. I mean this starts from the beginning of the relationship that we had with the new Libya after next, and the Egypt after next following the Arab Spring in terms of who can we talk to and who can we trust.
So, it is a matter of, yes -- it's certainly going to be a difficult task to try to find that needle in the haystack, but intelligence exists and it is a matter of ferreting that out. And the only way you can find it is if you trust and have sources locally who can help you do that and finger these guys so we can go after their networks and to go after their -- what I would call -- their motivations and frankly, Carol, their command and control capabilities, because clearly this was not accidental and it does not happen without some degree of direction and purpose.
COSTELLO: So, how does that work when you talk with your the intelligence sources on the ground when supposedly there will be no American boots on the ground in Libya?
MARKS: Well, we have sources; we do this through proxies or we have guys that are not acknowledged that are on the ground. There may not be boots overt what I would call military boots on the ground, but we have folks that are working this right now both I would say American citizens who are covered status and we've got guys that are working for the United States to try to get to this very precise piece of intelligence that's going to lead to the identification of this group.
COSTELLO: So what would be preferable for the United States to take people into custody, or to take them out in another way?
Marks: No, it would be a local -- it would be the United States and in the case of Libya and/or Egypt, making a decision that forces the local government to put their hands on the perpetrators, put the guys that are responsible for this under their control .But the United States would have a position that I would call "over the shoulder" in terms of extracting the information and the intelligence necessary. The United States won't put their hands on them.
And if they can get good intelligence, and if they are on an acknowledged list of terrorists, then you can move it to a category of kill or capture.
COSTELLO: This is not going to happen overnight, right?
MARKS: No, ma'am. It will not, Carol. This is going to take some time, but there has to be movement, and it is critical the United States at this point, acknowledge that this is not a criminal act. These are not suspects. This was not a crime that occurred. This was an act of war against the United States. U.S. property in a foreign land is like the United States, itself.
COSTELLO: General James "Spider" Marks, thank you for providing insights this morning.We appreciate it as always.
Thank you so much for being with me. I'm Carol Costello.
"NEWSROOM" continues now with Ashleigh Banfield.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hi everybody. Thanks very much, Carol Costello. It is 11:00 on the East Coast; it's 8:00 on the West Coast.
And outrage is spreading like wild fire in the Middle East over this video that insults Islam and the Prophet Mohammed. Among other things, protests erupted today in Cairo, in Tehran, and in Yemen -- these following the attacks on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya on Tuesday in which American Ambassador Chris Stevens and three of his colleagues were killed.
And also the storming of the U.S. embassy in Cairo. Here is a list of the latest developments at this hour.
Hundreds of protesters today stormed the U.S. embassy in Yemen.At least three people were wounded when police opened fire.
