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Romney Defends Hidden Camera Remarks; Fact-Checking the 47 Percent Figure; Grim Future for American Obesity; New Film on Openly Gay Bishop; Video: Libyans Pulled Out Ambassador; Apple Stock Hits All-Time High; Will, Kate Win Snap Judgment
Aired September 18, 2012 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Carol Costello, thank you so much.
Hi, everybody. Nice to have you with us. It's 11:00 in the East and it's 8:00 on the West Coast. Let's start.
And we begin with politics, controversial politics, controversial comments, and they come from Governor Mitt Romney. They were said at a private fundraiser with supporters back in May. They were videotaped and that tape was obtained by "Mother Jones" magazine and now it's been released. The timing's pretty bad, in fact, for a campaign that's under the microscope, 50 days or so next to the election.
First, let's hear a clip, though, of Governor Romney talking about a bloc of voters who he says are already in Obama's column. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MITT ROMNEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There are 47 percent who are with him who are dependent on government, who believe that they are victims, who believe government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they're entitled to health care, to food, to housing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: So, that is just the beginning of the comments that have now been released.
Governor Romney also talked about how he could potentially capture the Latino vote or what it would take to do so. And he also talked about bleak prospects for Middle East peace. But before we get to that, let's start with CNN political editor Paul Steinhauser who joins me now to break this down.
So, listen, has this blown up, Paul, beyond something that the governor can control at this point?
PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: It has definitely blown up since this first surfaced later afternoon Eastern time yesterday, Ashleigh. Whether it's something the governor can recover from, it's too early to say. We don't have any polls yet. This is something that's brand new. But it definitely is something that damages him, it seems to me.
And, remember, as you mentioned, Ashleigh, this comes after a tough week. First, last week with the comments from the governor on the crisis in the Middle East and the embassy attacks and into the Politico story that hit over the weekend and now this.
And it seems to me, Ashleigh, that it feeds to the Democratic storyline, the Democratic and Obama storyline that Mitt Romney -- they try to portray Romney as somebody who's beholden to the wealthy and somebody who's really out of touch with average Americans and this sound kind of plays that, doesn't it?
Mitt Romney last night was in California at a fundraiser in Costa Mesa, California, and he had an impromptu news conference. The campaign basically announcing it about 15 minutes before it happened. Here's some of what he said, Ashleigh.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMNEY: It's a message which I'm going to carry and continue to carry, which is, look, the President's approach is attractive to people who are not paying taxes because, frankly, my discussion about lowering taxes isn't as attracted to them and, therefore, I'm not likely to draw them into my campaign as effectively as those who are in the middle.
This is really a discussion about the political process of winning the election and, of course, I want to help all Americans, all Americans, have a bright and prosperous future. And I'm convinced that the President's approach has not done that and will not do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEINHAUSER: You know, it's interesting when you look at that 47 percent or I believe the actual number is 46.4 percent, very close. Some of those people, of course, include retirees, low-income people, also some people in the military, as well, and some of these people may actually be Romney's supporters.
Also, Ashleigh, when you factor in those who pay not the income tax, but a federal payroll tax, the number of people who actually don't pay taxes goes much, much lower, down to 18 percent.
One more thing I want to say, there are some conservative bloggers now who are applauding what Romney said and saying he should double-down on these comments. So, this is going to be a big talker for many days to come, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: Well, and doubling-down may have been exactly what happened at the late-night news conference. Whether it's 7:00 on the West Coast, it's 10:00 on the East Coast and like you said, hastily converged.
But let me ask you about the secondary part of this and that was the comments about, if he were Latino, things might end up different in this election. Let me play for you that comment. We'll talk on the other side, Paul.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMNEY: My dad, you probably know, was the governor of Michigan and was the head of a car company, but he was born in Mexico and, had he been born of Mexican parents, I'd have a better shot at winning this. I mean, I say that jokingly, but it would be helpful to be Latino.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: Paul, it may have been said jokingly, but he is in California and specifically for an event with the Latino community. So will this be seen as fact or will this be seen as offensive?
STEINHAUSER: It may be seen as offensive. And, as you mentioned, yes, yesterday, Mitt Romney addressed the U.S. Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. We carried some of those comments that he made, live on CNN. And he also just did an interview with Telemundo, a major Spanish-language network. And, tomorrow, he sits down with Univision, another major Spanish-language network.
The Latino vote's so important and growing with every election. President Obama, then Senator Obama, did very well and won about two- thirds of that vote in the last presidential election and polls indicate he has a very, very large advantage. So the timing here, obviously, not very good for Mitt Romney as he seemed to be making another outreach to Latino voters.
As for the family history, remember, you know, Mitt Romney's father and his parents going to Mexico to escape persecution from Mormons at that time because -- and that is part of the storyline and part of Mitt Romney's history.
BANFIELD: Paul, just quickly, the comment that was made about Mideast peace, he said we kicked the ball down the field and hoped that ultimately, somehow, something will happen and resolve it. Is that damaging? Just a couple of seconds left.
STEINHAUSER: You know, it may help with some Jewish-Americans who feel that way, but the comments could be also seen as something that maybe Mitt Romney doesn't feel the two-state solution is plausible.
His campaign standing by the comments, saying this is something Mitt Romney has said before. If the Palestinians don't want to engage, then it would be tough, they say, for the peace process to work. Stay tuned, Ashleigh.
BANFIELD: CNN's political editor Paul Steinhauser for us on this story. Thank you.
And coming up just a little bit later on, Paul mentioned it, that so- called 47 percent, 46-47 percent, find out who they are, exactly, who they are. Are you part of that? And does that group of people really not pay taxes? We're going to break those numbers down for you.
Now, on the surface, some of those comments from Governor Romney do seem damaging, but in the end, that is for you, the voter, to decide. It is up to you to look at those comments and assess them. To get a little more insight on this, joining me now is Margaret Hoover, who's a CNN political contributor who served in the George W. Bush White House. Her book is called "American Individualism." And also with me, Democratic strategist Bernard Whitman.
I'm going to get to both of you in just a moment, but I want to play a little bit more of those comments made by Mitt Romney at that private fundraiser. Again, this was surreptitiously recorded at the private fundraiser, specifically about the 47 percent group. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMNEY: My job is not to worry about those people. I'll never convince them that they should take personal responsibility and care for their lives.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: All right, Margaret Hoover, I want to start with you. My job is not to be concerned with that group. Sounds reminiscent of something that the governor said back in February to Soledad O'Brien -- "I'm not concerned about poor people."
He came back to say that was sort of an inartful way of suggesting he wasn't concerned, that he thought he would fix anything wrong with the social safety net, but this has got to be somewhat troublesome.
How troublesome is it? He did host a very late-night news conference.
MARGARET HOOVER, AUTHOR, "AMERICAN INDIVIDUALISM": Right. Well, it's troublesome in that it's an inartful tic that he has, probably a verbal tic where he says, oh, I don't have to worry about that and then he starts to tell you, refocus you on what he is going to try to focus on.
And it almost seems honestly, as I went back and watched that clip, like he was collapsing -- again, as you said, surreptitious video, filmed at the end of the day, closed door, off the press, you know, the guard is down. He's probably had ten events that day already and he's gotten a lot of economic briefings and campaign briefings. It's easy to confuse numbers.
You can almost imagine that he had a campaign strategy briefing which is a play-to-the-base strategy. I mean, they're each going, Democrats and Republicans -- are going for their 45 percent or so Republican turnout base, Democratic turnout base, and then they're fighting over that little bit in the middle.
And it sounds like he conflated that with his economic reform policies which, frankly, every center-right conservative economic reform policy deals with the fact that roughly 47 percent of Americans don't pay federal income taxes.
And the question is, should everyone have a little bit more skin in the game if we're all benefiting from services, federal services that we're paying into? You know, infrastructure, roads and highways, Pell Grants? All of the things that have us pay into, should more of us get a little skin in the game? That's the question here.
BANFIELD: Some of the people you're talking about who perhaps should have more skin in the game end up being seniors, as well. A lot of that 47 percent, older voters, seniors, who typically vote Republican.
So, Bernard, my question for you is, could that potentially alienate people who are already in his base? Because, as Margaret said, that may have been conflating some people.
We have a Gallup poll out that shows us that 52 percent of seniors favor Mitt Romney over 43 percent who favor Obama. Was that -- could that be damaging and would he have to do a lot of damage control to try to reel that back in?
BERNARD WHITMAN, AUTHOR, "52 REASONS TO VOTE FOR OBAMA": I think it's extremely damaging and I'd have to disagree with my friend, Margaret Hoover.
I mean, it is an outrageous admission of the disdain that Romney has for a huge swath of the American people and, in fact, the statement was not only offensive, it was factually incorrect, as you point out.
Half those people that don't pay tax don't pay tax because they don't earn enough, but a quarter of those people don't pay tax because they're seniors and it really, I think, underscores the fact that Mitt Romney wants to focus his economic policies on creating opportunity for those who already have opportunity, doesn't really feel compelled to offer a social safety net and doesn't really believe in lifting people up that might need a little bit of assistance, but who ultimately want to rely on themselves to get ahead.
I mean, if you look at his immigration policy, he is not in favor of the Dream Act. These are people who are here and want to go to college or serve in the military. He's doing terribly among Latinos. His vote among Latinos is 68-to-26, behind Obama. He's got a 53-point deficit among Hispanic women.
So, the very people that actually need a little bit of assistance, but are more than willing to stand up on their own two feet, if given a fair shot, are the very people that he is offending by those outrageous comments.
BANFIELD: And, so, Margaret, I can see you nodding. And, clearly, look, these comments will be seized upon by Democrats and by those who create ads and they will be used.
Can the governor somehow get the message you have brought to this program and try to clarify what he meant if that is, in fact, what he meant and try to break through this noise?
HOOVER: Certainly -- I mean, I think this will -- has the potential to stick with him as much as the inartful comment that President Obama made at a fundraiser four years ago, made about the people in the Midwest who have lost their jobs clinging to their guns and religion has stuck with him. This may be a question in the first debate and I think the answer will rest with whether Mitt Romney is able to answer this question satisfactorily.
I mean, to one point Bernard made, though, I think the fundamental question between the point Bernard made and the point I made is that Bernard suggested that the Republicans don't want any social safety net and certainly that has been a hit against the conservative movement since its founding. But I don't think conservatives are arguing against a social safety net anymore. They're arguing for saving and reforming the social safety net so that a future generation can benefit from it.
And that's actually the crux of the issue when you get to how are you going to continue to have these federal programs and have people who aren't paying taxes, how are we going to reform the system so that it's solvent into the future?
BANFIELD: And I'll have to leave it there, only for time's sake, but it will be -- it remains to be seen whether this ends up being one of those Dukakis-moments or not or whether we have 50 more days of the news cycle to blend in whatever else is coming.
Margaret Hoover and Bernard Whitman, thanks to both of you. Do appreciate it.
WHITMAN: Thank you.
BANFIELD: Mitt Romney has no public campaign events, by the way, that are scheduled. Instead he's going to go to some more fundraisers and he'll be in Salt Lake City, as well as Dallas, an old stomping ground for me.
President Obama is on the fundraising circuit, as well, today. He's supposed to be in New York City a little bit later on, a fund-raiser being hosted by Beyonce. Then he's got an appearance later on "Late Night with David Letterman."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Mitt Romney's comments that have come out on-camera at a fundraiser are making a lot of headlines, 47 percent of us that don't pay taxes.
Christine Romans is here with the number 46 percent to show us exactly what these numbers mean and who among us they are.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: He says he's talking about the 46.4 percent of Americans who do not pay federal income tax and that's what it looks like on that pie.
Who are those people? Those are working poor. Those are elderly. There are actually a few thousand millionaire households in those numbers, but mostly it's the working poor, the elderly and people who, frankly, don't make enough money to pay income taxes.
Don't forget, we have a very complicated tax code that has all of these tax benefits, Bush-era tax cuts for everyone, by the way, which means some people actually get a check at the end of the year because they don't make enough money or they have so many tax breaks that they have a negative tax break.
BANFIELD: I remember those days in my 20s. OK, so, then, let's move on because you may not be paying income tax, but that doesn't mean you're not paying taxes.
ROMANS: Right. When you look at people who are paying payroll taxes, most of the people -- the majority of the people who are not paying income taxes are paying payroll taxes.
So, let's talk about the arena here. Eighteen percent of people, only 18 percent of households pay no federal income tax and no payroll tax. Remember, the payroll taxes come right out of your paycheck to pay for social security and Medicare.
So, now, you've got 18 percent of households, a much smaller slice of the pie.
BANFIELD: Not 46, 47.
ROMANS: Right, 18 percent there.
So, he also talked about entitlement programs, right? And he said that people -- he says in that tape that there are a lot of people who feel as though the government should give them food, housing, all of these other things.
BANFIELD: Before you get to those, why are there only 18 percent of us not paying payroll taxes? Is that because they're not making enough money to actually pay the payroll tax?
ROMANS: Because it comes right out of your paycheck, right? I mean, most working Americans are paying the payroll tax. If you're not working, then you're not paying them. So if you're elderly or retired, you're not paying payroll tax.
BANFIELD: Perfect. Now, let's move on to the entitlements because that was a big issue where he says, a lot of people expect the government to look after them. Who are those people and what exactly is the breakdown of what are we doing for these people?
ROMANS: And we know that the Great Recession has put more people into the safety net than ever before, right? So, 26 percent of Americans are getting Medicaid. That's ...
BANFIELD: That's huge.
ROMANS: Right. That's one-in-four families is receiving Medicaid. Food stamps, 15 percent, that's about 47 million people. That is a record number, as well.
Women, infants and children, WIC, you've heard of the WIC program. Eight percent get that. Housing assistance is 4 percent and then there's something called Temporary Assistance for Needy Families. That's about 2 percent are receiving that.
So, look, these programs have all swollen over the past few years because we had this terrible recession. The question is, progressives say that's a sign of success in an economy that you can take care of your poor people. Conservatives are saying, hey, wait a minute. We can't afford this forever. What is the exit strategy or do we become a dependent nation on programs like this?
BANFIELD: And just one last question, quickly. When Mitt Romney says, I'm not worried so much about dealing with the poor people; I'm looking to help the middle class -- and those are my words, not his. He said it more artfully than I did. How much of this is middle class?
ROMANS: How much of this is middle class? Well, that's a pretty interesting question. Medicaid is not middle class.
There may technically be middle-class people on food stamps, but not very many. These are programs for needy and for poor people, quite frankly. And when you're looking at the people who aren't paying federal income taxes, those are, by-and-large, the elderly and the working poor.
BANFIELD: That explains it. Christine Romans, thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: In our "Issues 2012," we turn overseas because there has been more deadly fallout from that film that insults Islam and the Prophet Mohammed.
A suicide bomber packed his car with explosives and them rammed into a foreigner's bus in the Afghan capital of Kabul. Twelve people were on that bus. All of them died, 8 of them South African aviation workers, three of them Afghans and one of them a translator who was helping them. An insurgent group linked to the Taliban says that it carried out the attack and the reason for it? Revenge for the anti-Muslim film.
And in a somewhat related development, American and other NATO troops have now been ordered -- ordered -- to sharply reduce some of their joint operations with the Afghan army and the police forces. You know how we're training them? And this move has been prompted by a wicked spike in deadly attacks by their Afghan counterparts. You've heard them, "green-on-blue" attacks.
So how our involvement in this war is ultimately going to play out is going to be determined by who wins the White House in November. Your choice, remember?
Pentagon correspondent Chris Lawrence now has a look at just where both candidates stand, where President Obama stands, where Mitt Romney stands, on the longest war in U.S. history.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Seventy-thousand American troops are still fighting in Afghanistan, but will election day affect them one way or the other?
We see two candidates moving closer and closer to the point where there's not much space between them.
ROMNEY: Our goal should be to complete a successful transition to Afghan security forces by the end of 2014.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Next year, Afghans will take the lead for their own security. In 2014, the transition will be complete.
LAWRENCE: There were real differences at the beginning of Governor Romney's campaign last summer when he seemed to criticize President Obama's decision to send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan.
ROMNEY: It's time for us to bring our troops home as soon as we possibly can. I also think we've learned that our troops shouldn't go off and try and fight a war of independence for another nation.
LAWRENCE: But the governor's position evolved. By November, he opposed any plan to bring most of the troops home before 2014.
ROMNEY: I stand with the commanders in this regard and have no information that suggests that pulling our troops out faster than that would do anything but put at great peril the extraordinary sacrifice that's been made. This is not time for America to cut-and-run.
LAWRENCE: Whomever sits in the Oval Office will have to decide how the U.S. hands over to the Afghans, and that's where we see the biggest difference, when it comes to talking with the Taliban.
OBAMA: We're pursuing a negotiated peace. In coordination with the Afghan government, my administration has been in direct discussions with the Taliban.
LAWRENCE: While President Obama makes a distinction between Taliban and al Qaeda, Governor Romney says he won't haggle with a group that has killed American troops.
ROMNEY: We don't negotiate with terrorists. I do not negotiate with the Taliban. That's something for the afghans to decide how they're going to pursue their course in the future.
LAWRENCE: So there's negotiation versus no-negotiation with the Taliban.
President Obama announced an end-date, years in advance. Governor Romney opposed publicizing that date. The President ended the surge this month during the fighting season. The governor would have kept additional troops there through December.
Analysts say neither man has spent much time talking about the war, but Mark Jacobson says that's partly because the big strategic issues like the surge and handover have been pretty much decided.
MARK JACOBSON, GERMAN MARSHALL FUND: What we're looking at now is execution of this strategy and that doesn't require the same sort of political capital and time from Washington, D.C., that was required two years ago.
LAWRENCE: The two men don't exactly agree on how the fighting affects the nation's finances.
OBAMA: Because after two wars that have cost us thousands of lives and over $1 trillion, it's time to do some nation building right here at home.
ROMNEY: Of course, the return of our troops cannot and must not be used as an excuse to hollow out our military through devastating defense budget cuts.
LAWRENCE: So the biggest difference on Afghanistan may be how to spend the money when the war is over. Chris Lawrence, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Thank you, Chris Lawrence, for that.
And you heard the President say, "after two wars and thousands dead," since the start of the war in Afghanistan in October of 2001, the count is 1,995 Americans who have been killed in that country.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: It is no secret that obesity has become an epidemic across this country and, while there are so many efforts to combat it, it doesn't seem to work. Our waistlines are just getting bigger and bigger and the projections are really bad.
The problem is expected to get so bad -- listen to this new report that was just released about an hour ago. It predicts that five-in- ten adults will be obese in 39 states by the year 2030 and six-in-ten will be obese in 13 states.
Our senior medical correspondent, Elizabeth Cohen, has been watching this report and analyzing it. Elizabeth, I know that different states have different eating habits, different exercise habits and different statistics, but where is this crisis looking to be the worst for the next 20 years?
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, Ashleigh, it is the worst in the South, in many Southern states, especially Mississippi, and Colorado has the best rate.
So, let's take a look at those two states, the best and the worst. All right, in 2011, 35 percent of people in Mississippi were obese and 21 percent of people in Colorado. Let's jump forward to this forecast, to this prediction for 2030. In Mississippi, that goes from 67 -- I'm sorry from 35 percent to 67 percent. In Colorado, it goes from 21 percent to 45 percent. So big jumps --
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: That's almost double!
COHEN: Big, big jumps. Now, I have to say that this is a projection, a forecast, which is always tricky. Can't always do those perfectly, but it is a projection based on CDC numbers.
BANFIELD: So, you know, I always watch with interest Michelle Obama as she gardens in the back and she gets her message out about exercising and eating right, but that's Michelle Obama. What about the candidates themselves? Are they looking at this as serious as it is?
COHEN: Right. They both say that they are looking at it. So President Obama has already mandated healthier school lunches, and his office says he wants to do even more to make school lunches healthier. Of course there's the Let's Move campaign from his wife. We reached out to the Romney campaign because we couldn't find anything on their website about obesity. And the campaign did not get back to us. But we did see that in 2007, Romney said, yes, we ought to have healthier school lunches. But he was very clear, he said, I don't want the federal government to mandate that. I want states and local school systems to do that on their own.
BANFIELD: And then I'm reading in the local paper this morning, and it's all over the wires as well about kids in America eating too much salt. In fact, eating as much salt as we are, grown-ups.
COHEN: Yes. And we are eating too much salt. So take a look at these numbers, and this kind of spells out the whole thing. When you look at numbers for sodium, kids are consuming 3,400 milligrams a day. And the limit for adults is 2,300. So kids are consuming more sodium than the adult limit. So there's the recommendations for adults. And that's what kids are consuming. So it's obviously completely out of whack. And what's interesting is heavier kids are more sensitive to sodium. So sodium wreaks even more havoc in an obese child's body than a child who is not obese.
BANFIELD: It's in everything from your bread to your chicken. We just have to be vigilant.
Elizabeth Cohen, thank you.
COHEN: Thanks.
BANFIELD: Good to see you.
For more information on these stories and how to become an empowered patient, because that's what Elizabeth tells us to do, and it's great advice, go to CNN.com/empoweredpatient.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: He wore a bulletproof vest to his proverbial first day on the job, and he's had death threats and verbal attacks ever since. And this is a man of the cloth.
Father Gene Robinson was the first openly gay Episcopal bishop to be elected to lead his diocese back in 2003. And since then, the issue of gay marriage has gained prominence in the national political debate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
FATHER GENE ROBINSON, EPISCOPAL BISHOP & AUTHOR: This is not about tolerated gay and lesbian, bisexual and transgender people. This is not about being nice. It's not even about being compassionate. This cup of water is about justice.
And we are not yet at a place in this country where we believe the full and equal rights of gay and lesbian people are a matter of justice. We're not there yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BANFIELD: He's just out with his brand-new book, "God Believes in Love: Straight Talk about Gay Marriage." And Father Robinson joins me now live.
Thanks for coming in and talking to me about this.
ROBINSON: I'm delighted to be here.
BANFIELD: I'm delighted to talk to you about this as well. To me, as an immigrant in this country, I have looked at this issue of gay marriage, and I have personally seen this as the new civil rights frontier. There are many people who don't agree that it's a civil rights issue. You have written a book that almost essentially makes the argument that it is a civil rights issue. How can you -- how can it be debated that it is not?
ROBINSON: Well, it's hard to imagine because the similarities between this and the civil rights movement of the '60s, for instance, have so much in common. You know, 100 years before that, we were using scripture to justify slavery in the great abolition debate. And today we find people who are using the scriptures which talks about God being love and God loving all of God's children. They're using those scriptures to actually hold it against us. I take so much inspiration from the African-American movement of the '60s. You know, they were so courageous. They went into the streets for their civil rights facing snarling dogs and fire hoses and sometimes death itself. And their courage was astounding. And all they were fighting for, and all we in the gay community are fighting for --
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: Was the right to share a water fountain and everything that goes with it.
ROBINSON: And the question is liberty and justice for all, we throw that out, but really? Is it for all? And do we want to live in a country where that's a great slogan but not the truth? BANFIELD: One of the -- one of the debates that you put forth -- and it's not even really a debate, it's an ideology you put forth that's fascinating in the book. Until white people got on board with the civil rights movement and joined black people in the streets calling for it, did it get traction? Is that the same issue that you see with the gay marriage movement? Until more straight people get on board and demand this, there aren't enough numbers in the gay community to make this happen?
ROBINSON: You know, I think we can't take it away from black people what they did, but when white people began to understand that they were paying a huge price for racism, things really, really took off. And I think, you know, we as gay people will never be more than a minority.
BANFIELD: When I say traction -- and I certainly don't want to take away as well -- when I say traction, I mean legislation and government traction.
ROBINSON: And the Jim Crow laws came off the books.
BANFIELD: Go ahead.
ROBINSON: And we will be never be more than a small minority. So until heterosexual people understand that living in a country where liberty and justice for all isn't a reality hurts them as well, then we will have trouble making headway. And the fact of the matter is, we are making great headway. We see the numbers changing so fast. And when President Obama expressed his support for marriage equality, we saw the numbers in the African-American community skyrocket. And I think he sort of gave them cover for the work that they had been doing all along.
BANFIELD: And he wrote a blurb in support of your book saying essentially do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
ROBINSON: Yes, isn't that the message of scripture that we are to value all of God's children, even God's gay and lesbian, bisexual and transgender children.
BANFIELD: You were married heterosexual four decades, and now you have been in a gay relationship for 20 --
(CROSSTALK)
ROBINSON: 25 years.
BANFIELD: And married for four.
ROBINSON: Correct.
BANFIELD: How were you elected? Because if you're talking about a small minority, how does a man like you to be elected bishop of your diocese when there isn't this wholesale support for perhaps your lifestyle? ROBINSON: Sure. I'll tell you, I got elected the same way that attitudes about gay and lesbian people are changing in this country, which is that people get to know us. And I had worked in my diocese for 27 years before I was elected bishop. They knew me.
BANFIELD: You weren't the boogie man in the parade. Everybody swinging from chandeliers according to so many people.
ROBINSON: We're not so scary. We just look like the person next door. And what Americans all across this country, as their sons and daughters or nieces and nephews or coworkers or former classmates come out to them is that all of those things that we've been told are wrong about gay people. Just aren't true.
BANFIELD: You look awfully nice to me. It's nice to have you come in and share the book and the thoughts. And I appreciate meeting you.
ROBINSON: Thank you so much.
BANFIELD: Thank you, Father. Thanks for joining us.
A reminder, the documentary "Love Free of Die" premieres October 29th at 10:00 p.m. on PBS. Thanks so much, Gene Robinson.
ROBINSON: Thank you.
BANFIELD: Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Investigators with the U.S. State Department are honing in on some brand-new videotape out of Benghazi, Libya. And it's videotape that shows witnesses -- well, at least witnesses say -- shows Ambassador Chris Stevens being pulled out of a charred window just moments after this attack on the U.S. Consulate there last week.
Here's our Arwa Damon with that video.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARWA DAMON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the first thing that Fahed says he saw and filmed at the consulate compound, the cafeteria building up in flames. It was shortly before midnight, September 11th. The smoke so thick, the compound's main house is barely visible. And then this.
(SHOUTING)
DAMON: After breaking through a window, men shout they have found a body. Suddenly, one of them cries out, "He's alive! He's alive!"
(SHOUTING)
DAMON: The crowd cheers. "God is great!"
(SHOUTING) DAMON: Rushing for a car, they realize it's a foreigner.
FAHED AL-BAKUSH, EYEWITNESS: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
DAMON: "I was filming the video, and I thought it was an American," Fahed recalls. "But I thought it was a driver or a security guy. I never thought it was the ambassador."
It's clear from the rest of the video that the man they pulled out was Ambassador Christopher Stevens. Fahed says he was alive, but barely.
AL-BAKUSH: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
DAMON: "He had a pulse, and his eyes were moving," Fahed says. "His mouth was black from all the smoke."
Ten minutes later rushed through the Benghazi streets in a civilian's car, the ambassador arrived at the hospital, but it was too late. Dr. Zaid Abu Seid tells us he got a code blue call. "Patient arrested, needs resuscitation."
DR. ZAID ABU ZEID, TREATED AMBASSADOR STEVENS: No pulse or no breathing.
DAMON: He, too, did not realize it was Stevens. The body was covered in soot, he says.
"I began resuscitation, but after 45 minutes, the patient gave no signs of life."
The Libyan government has vowed to bring those who attacked the consulate to justice. But nearly a week later, there are still contradictory accounts of what happened.
The head of Libya's National Congress says it was a pre-planned attack, that the government has arrested dozens of people, among them members or sympathizers of al Qaeda and a handful of foreigners. Other senior officials say the 50 were merely brought in for questioning, and there is no evidence of an existing plot.
What is undisputed is that over the past three months, attacks against western interests in Benghazi have increased, as has the power of extremist groups, something military officials say they warned the Americans about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
DAMON: This young man says he arrived at the compound just as the firefight began to subside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
DAMON: He says he didn't see any foreigners, just Libyans, members of known extremist militias, bearded, carrying Russian-made automatic machine guns, rocket-propelled grenades, and lighter weapons.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
DAMON: He was detained by the attackers he says. He heard them talking about the assault, celebrating their success. And he says, before he was released, they also talked about an attack on another location that night, a safe house where the American staff took shelter.
Perhaps we'll never know exactly what happened that night, but it's a far cry from the dreams of so many Libyans when they rose up last year.
Arwa Damon, CNN, Benghazi, Libya.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BANFIELD: Arwa, thank you.
And meanwhile, the fallout from the online anti-Islam film is escalating. Al Qaeda's affiliate in North Africa is now urging Muslims in that region to ramp up protests and to, quote, "kill their American ambassadors and representatives." The group is also calling Ambassador Chris Stevens' death a, quote, "gift."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Don't know if you've been watching the stock market but Apple has been killing it on Wall Street this morning. That tech giant stock has hit an all-time high and it passed the $700 mark in early trading.
Alison Kosik joins me live from the New York Stock Exchange. I had the research department pull the IPO price on Apple back in 1980. $22 a share. Split three times which means $2.75 if you bought it back then.
ALISON KOSIK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Incredible, isn't it? It is incredible to see the rise of the share price. Trading below that $700 mark. But it did cross that $700 mark. Hitting $701. And guess what? Here what happen what's driving the shares higher announcement of the iPhone 5, Apple broke reports on preorders, two million put in. The phone hits store shelves Friday. It is hard to believe, Ashleigh, six months ago that Apple crossed the $600 mark for the first time. You know analysts are saying, wait a minute, caution here, the stock is rising too quickly. It could become overvalued. If you look at it this way, Apple stock is trading 16 times its fiscal 2013 estimates and it's not expensive compared to Amazon and Facebook. They trade at higher multiples than that. It means Apple shares still, believe it or not have room to run.
BANFIELD: Could go higher. Let's talk about something else going higher, our confidence. Apparently, in home builders. Home builders say they have a six-year high in confidence?
KOSIK: Yes. This is actually the fifth month in a row that builder confidence improved according to the National Association of Home Builder/Wells Fargo housing mark index. Existing home sales, building permits, data, all of that stuff coming out will give us a better picture of Mark Zandi said the news from the Fed to buy mortgage back securities should drive interest rates lower. He says that rates have fallen in response to the Fed's actions and expects the fixed rate 30- year mortgage for prime borrower to get as low as 3.25 percent.
Also, low mortgage rates mean home buyers may be willing to pay more. Zandi says sellers are getting leverage out there. If you're trying to buy or refinance it's always about qualifying. Make sure you've got enough saved for a down payment and a strong credit report and score. So you want to make sure you've got all of that together before you go ahead and take the plunge and refinance.
BANFIELD: That qualifying is a bummer. Imagine if Apple were to build homes. Goodness.
Alison Kosik, thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BANFIELD: Round one of the battle royale over topless photos of the future queen in England goes to Will and Kate, the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge -- official titles -- seen on the final leg of South Pacific holiday. It is light-years away from the legal fight over privacy versus paparazzi. Back in France, snap-happy France, a judge today slapped the magazine called "Closer" with a 2,000 euro -- under $3,000 American - fine, a fine for publishing the photos of Kate sunbathing partially nude in a private villa.
And much more importantly it ordered that magazine to surrender the original photos to the royals, digital and all. Also barred the publication from showing those in print and online. And the bottom line is this: the royals do have privacy rights, just like the average Joe.
Joining me to talk about them is defense attorney, law professor, Joey Jackson.
Here's the deal. Privacy -- we all have an expectation of privacy.
JOEY JACKSON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We do.
BANFIELD: Not just Will and Kate, not just of the people of France or Italy, we have an expectation and it's enshrined in our Constitution.
JACKSON: Absolutely. What happens is, it says this, there's that famous case that you made me read, right, the decision from 1967, I was having nightmares of law school but it's a reasonable expectation of privacy. We know the Constitution, it doesn't protect places, it protects people. Anywhere where you believe you have a reasonable expectation of privacy, even if it's in a public place, you do, which is a beautiful thing. Guess what? You're in a phone booth you're making a phone call, expectation of privacy but only as it relates to the call, don't try doing anything lewd in the phone booth --
(CROSSTALK)
BANFIELD: It's see-through.
JACKSON: It's see-through. It's not subject for that. Amazing.
BANFIELD: We all, in a bathroom in your home, in the place where you reasonably could expect to be private, you are legally protected. They can't record you, they can't photograph you. You have a case.
JACKSON: Yes. But you have to be careful because there are some instances in your home, but the window is exposed, right, and people can see in, be careful. If they peer in and take pictures, that's what blinds are for.
BANFIELD: Close your blinds, close your windows, keep your privacy, watch for the long lens.
JACKSON: You'll be protected.
BANFIELD: Thanks for letting us know that. It's not just for princes and the rest.
JACKSON: It's for us, too.
BANFIELD: Thank you. Thank you, everybody, for joining us.
By the way, my friend Michael Holmes is sitting in on the next program. Stay tuned for NEWSROOM INTERNATIONAL.