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NFL Refs Back in the Field; Courting the Jewish Vote; Police to Search for Jimmy Hoffa; Sources: Not One FBI Agent in Benghazi; Romney Vs. Obama on Drug Issue; J.K. Rowling's New Book on Sale; The Pros are Back: NFL Refs Return Tonight

Aired September 27, 2012 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: All right. "CNN NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello begins right now.

Good morning, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, Christine. Hi, John.

Happening now in the NEWSROOM, they're stretching out and suiting up. The NFL's referees return to their field of expertise tonight. With the replacements gone, football fans can now direct their anger elsewhere.

FBI agents investigating the deadly attack at the American consulate in Libya still haven't reached Benghazi. Exclusive information on why U.S. officials still aren't there more than two weeks after the gunfire.

Where is Jimmy Hoffa? We've been asking that question for almost 40 years. Now investigators some new information that's leading them to a home in suburban Detroit.

And it's one of the most famous paintings in the whole world. Now the Mona Lisa might have a twin. A new group claims Da Vinci created another version of Mona.

NEWSROOM starts now.

Good morning to you. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Carol Costello.

NFL fans' long national nightmare is finally over. The regular referees coming back on the field, starting with tonight's Browns/Ravens game. The tipping point to reach a deal between the league and the refs may have indeed been that botched call at the end of Monday Night's Football game.

CNN's Jason Carroll is outside the NFL's offices.

Good morning, Jason.

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And good morning to you. And you know, that call on Monday night really set all things in motion. Seventeen hours of negotiation going on in Tuesday, more negotiating going on until midnight last night. That's about when both sides came to this agreement, made the announcement that they had reached this agreement, and of course fans are very happy about.

The refs really making out in a good way in terms of what was reached. The referees will not have to give up their pension in exchange for 401(k) plan. They'll also get a pay raise spread out over the next several years. The NFL commissioner weighing in late last night, Carol, saying, "This agreement supports long-term reforms that will make officiating better. The teams, players and fans want and deserve both consistency and quality in officiating."

The referee association president also weighing in last night saying, "We are glad to be getting back on the field for this week's games."

And as you can imagine, Carol, as fans woke up this morning and heard about their news, they were pleased with what they heard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was glad the refs are back. I'm a big football fan and didn't like what was happening with the game.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The refs are no good, right? They had reject some of the lingerie league. That's all I saw. So I guess there should be enough money to pay the refs, right, get some good refs, right? Can't be that expensive, give them what they want and play football, I suppose, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The refs look just challenged and overwhelmed. And it's great to see that we're going to have the real refs back on the field. I'm excited. I think it means that there's a little bit of integrity back in the game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: It's amazing, still amazing how a bad call can set all these things into motion and get people back at the table. So basically, all it has -- all that has to happen now is the refs association has to officially ratify this deal. They are expected to do that on Friday in Dallas so tonight, Carol, the refs will be back out officiating the game. And I'm sure it won't be long before we hear players, you know, complaining about the refs like they used to.

COSTELLO: I know, and fans, too, but I got believe at Ravens Stadium in Baltimore tonight that there will be a standing ovation when the real refs take the field. I can't believe that will be true.

CARROLL: Well, it's the honeymoon.

COSTELLO: Yes, exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

CARROLL: Yes. It's like a honeymoon, though.

COSTELLO: You're right.

CARROLL: You know what it is with honeymoons, they never last.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: That's true. Jason Carroll, many thanks to you.

Today at the United Nations, the Middle East takes center stage and the diplomats will hear two very different views of the world. The headliner, most likely, Israel's prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu will again issue dire warnings on Iran's nuclear program and the threat, he says, it poses to the world. Diplomats will also hear from the Palestinian president Mahmoud Abbas. One year after his historic and failed plea for statehood, he'll seek a more modest goal, a kind of non-state membership to the United Nations.

The issue of Palestinian statehood was also championed in one of Wednesday's most highly anticipated speeches that came from Egypt's newly elected president and the former leader of the Muslim Brotherhood. He called on the United States to support Palestinian rights just as it did the Arab uprisings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT MOHAMED MORSY, EGYPT (Through Translator): Just as you've supported the revolutions of the Arab people, I call upon you to lend your support to the Palestinians and their endeavor to regain the full and legitimate rights of the people struggling to gain its freedom and establish his independent state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But don't expect the White House to say much about this or other issues that could further strain relations with Israel. The all-important Jewish vote is already being put to the test.

CNN's Poppy Harlow is in New York with a look at that impact.

Good morning.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. Well, we had an interesting night last night. We went to two homes of Jewish families in New Jersey to join them for their Yom Kippur breakfast. Then you talk about the importance of the Jewish vote. I mean historically so much of it goes to Democrats. And the last election, in 2008, President Obama got 78 percent of the Jewish vote, McCain got 21 percent of the vote, but we wanted to talk to these families about their different views because Netanyahu and the president have been making so many headlines right now and Mitt Romney.

We talked a lot about that red line and whether or not the president is taking and making a clear enough red line when it comes to Iran and the U.S.' stance on Iran. Netanyahu has publicly been criticizing the administration for not doing that. Romney has been siding with Netanyahu. So take a listen first to the family we met with last night who are supporting President Obama. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAROL BARASH, OBAMA SUPPORTER: I think he's made it hard for the United States to keep Israel with this special ally status that it's had because the United States can't be pushed around by anyone. I just think that Obama is being very rational and reasonable to a bully right now.

HARLOW: Is the president taking the Iran threat seriously enough right now or does Netanyahu have a point?

PETER SHAPIRO, OBAMA SUPPORTER: He has built an international coalition. He has succeeded in building an embargo against Iran that's unprecedented.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: Now Mitt Romney has said things like President Obama has, quote, "thrown allies like Israel under the bus." He also said on "60 Minutes" over the weekend that the president made a mistake by not meeting with Netanyahu. The next family we met with certainly agrees, says the president still has time to meet with Netanyahu. Here is their position on U.S./Israeli relations right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARTHUR SCHECHNER, ROMNEY SUPPORTER: Netanyahu is right. He has a problem on his hands of major, major proportions. And he needs some help. And I think that President Obama has not given him any help.

HARLOW: Michael, you're nodding.

MICHAEL SCHECHNER, ROMNEY SUPPORTER: Yes, I agree. I think that the possibility of Iran developing nuclear weapons capability is a serious threat. Not just to Israel, not just to the other Middle Eastern countries, to Europe, to the United States.

HARLOW: So what response would you like to see from President Obama now?

M. SCHECHNER: I think we're past the time for talking, I think we're past the time of saying we'll stop them, sanctions, all of that stuff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: And Carol, the Schechner family you just heard from also told me, you know, the U.S. has and will always be behind Israel. We want to see the U.S. next to Israel. They think that this administration needs to be a better friend to Israel, they believe Mitt Romney would do that. But again, if you look at the number also, it's going to be very hard for Mitt Romney to get a majority.

He's not going to get a majority of the Jewish vote. So much traditionally goes to the Democratic candidate. However, you are seeing this divide because it is such a hot-button issue right now -- Carol. COSTELLO: Poppy Harlow reporting live from New York City this morning.

Let's go to Detroit now and Jimmy Hoffa, buried under Giants stadium, thrown in a Florida swamp or dismembered by the mob. There are numerous rumors out there about the death of Jimmy Hoffa but we could soon have a better idea of exactly where his body is or isn't.

Police say a credible tip has led them to this home in Roseville, Michigan. That's a suburb of Detroit. Investigators will test the soil under a concrete slab for human remains. Hoffa was -- was last seen in Detroit way back in 1975.

Reporter Kim Russell from our affiliate WXYZ in Detroit joins us now by phone.

How did police get this tip?

KIM RUSSELL, WXYZ REPORTER: Good morning, Carol. Yes, the "Detroit Free Press" says that police got a call from a man claiming to be the tipster, he told -- they got a call from a man claiming to be a tipster and he told them that he is elderly and lives out of state, that he is suffering from a terminal illness and wanted to give police this information before he died.

He told authorities that he was interested in a $300,000 award that he had heard about. Unfortunately for him that award is no longer being offered. He also told police that he witnessed back in 1975, around the time that Jimmy Hoffa went missing, someone mixing concrete in this yard at this driveway and that a body was buried underneath it and police investigated.

They took a radar out there. And they found what they call an anomaly, evidence of something about the size of a body buried underneath that driveway. So now they are checking it out.

COSTELLO: So is there any evidence that this house was connected to the Teamsters or Jimmy Hoffa or someone else who was connected to Jimmy Hoffa?

RUSSELL: Well, we have just gotten this information so we have just been able to dig up who owned that property and I went to the Register of Deeds this morning and it was a man by the name of Frankel Ferry. Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to find out a lot of information about him. Police are not giving us a lot of information. But we are working to get that right now.

COSTELLO: It's just like -- I mean, we've heard -- we've been down this road so many times before, Kim. So -- I mean, are police more hopeful this time, that this is -- I mean, they say it's a credible tip but they've said that in the past, too.

RUSSELL: You know what? I talked to the -- an investigator who was very close to this case and he didn't want to go on the record but he said that it's very unlikely that this is where Jimmy Hoffa's body was left. There is a lot of evidence over the years that his body was incinerated and they really have very little hope of finding his body. However, the tip checked out with this anomaly, when they took the radar out here and they looked at this driveway so they just want to be careful. They don't want to ignore it, in case the tipster is telling them the truth and does actually know something about what happened to Jimmy Hoffa.

COSTELLO: Kim Russell, thank you so much, from our affiliate WXYZ. We appreciate the information this morning.

We're also learning exclusive new information about the attacks at the U.S. consulate in Libya, including why FBI officials aren't in Benghazi more than two weeks after the murders of American citizens.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It's been more than two weeks since the attack on the U.S. consulate in Benghazi, Libya, and FBI agents still haven't stepped foot into Benghazi or the crime scene. That's surprising information coming from top law enforcement officials.

What's more? The crime scene hasn't been secured.

Here is CNN's national security analyst, Fran Townsend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRAN TOWNSEND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: What we found out today from senior law enforcement officials is that while the FBI has finally made it to Tripoli, they've never made it to Benghazi.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: They haven't been on the ground in Benghazi?

TOWNSEND: They have not. In fact, it was taking so long to get permission to get into Tripoli, the FBI deployed their personnel to a location in the region so they'd be closer.

They have conducted interviews at the State Department and U.S. government personnel who were in Libya at the time of the attack. But they have not been able to get, they've gotten as far as Tripoli now, but they've never gotten to Benghazi. They made a request that the crime scene be secured.

As we know from Arwa Damon's report and other public reporting, the State Department -- we don't know whether or not the State Department put that request to the Libyans and whether it was denied or what happened to it. What we know for sure is the crime scene was never secured. And in fact, the senior law enforcement official I spoke to said if we get there now, it is not clear that it will be of any use to us.

And then the third and really critical and astonishing point to me was -- that they made was, look, one of the things we have do is question the individuals that the Libyans have in custody to get to the bottom of this, to understand what they are learning. And, in fact, they made the request through the State Department. That was denied by Libya.

So, the FBI has to pass any questions they have through the State Department to the Libyan government. They put the questions then you wait for a sort of like a child's game of telephone, that information to come back, before you can follow up. Not at all the ideal way to run an investigation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: As you well know, the U.S. ambassador Chris Stevens and three of his staff died in the attack.

Now, Republicans are outraged at conflicting information coming from the White House. The attack was first linked to the anti-Islamic film and now the White House is calling it a terrorist attack. But sources say investigators knew it was a terrorist attack all along.

And remember CNN obtained Ambassador Stevens' journal and found that he was worried about an attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MIKE TURNER (R), OHIO: I think the fact that they are trying to blame it on not a terrorist attack comes right to the heart of the fact that this is a president that took NATO and the United States into an offensive action, into Libya, without a clear stated policies.

REP. MAC THORNBERRY (R-TX), HOUSE ARMED SERVICES AND INTELIGENCE CMTE: We were told something that goes - consistent with what the administration was saying publicly. And that is, that this was a spontaneous mob. It got out of hand and there were unfortunate consequences.

Of course, that doesn't make sense if you just look at common sense. The fact that it was 9/11. The fact that it was a highly organized and sophisticated sort of attack. So that's before you get into the evidence, it just doesn't -- didn't really add up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. Joining us now is Tom Fuentes, CNN contributor and former FBI assistant director.

Good morning.

TOM FUENTES, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Good morning, Carol.

COSTELLO: So, President Obama has said that, you know, America is going to get justice from whoever killed them -- the ambassador and three members of his staff. Is that possible, do you think?

FUENTES: I guess it's possible. I guess the question there is what form all right justice take? You know, that does it mean prosecution in a courtroom or does it mean some other method of going after the people and doing something with them that committed the offense. But in this particular case, it is going to be very difficult. But it would have been difficult from the start, when you have a situation where you have a lack of a strong effective government experienced law enforcement and security and a major event happens like that, this type of thing happens, where the crime scene is not secure, difficult to get into a site safely and be able to conduct the investigation you need.

COSTELLO: Well, the fact the crime scene hasn't been secured. I mean, could there be any evidence left?

FUENTES: Well, there could be, certainly. There's still going to be chemical evidence of the explosives that were used and possibly who made the grenades of the RPGs and what type of ammunition casings and other debris that they find. So, there's still be evidence of value there, but it's not as good as if it was pristine from the beginning.

Again, I'd like to emphasize that in many countries, during the time I was involved in deploying FBI teams around the world, that was often the case, that by the time you could arrive, even if it was 24 hours later, you might have a great deal of time. I was in charge of the FBI team in Iraq in 2003 and we were on site at the U.N. bombing within an hour. Even those kind of sites, that kind of speed, it is still difficult when you don't have a local police that are effective and trained and professional and know what they're doing to be able to secure a crime scene.

COSTELLO: So why do you suppose the Libyan government isn't allowing the FBI into Benghazi or to question the suspects that the Libyan government says it questioned?

FUENTES: I think they are afraid of retaliation by the al Qaeda groups that are in the country there. I think, frankly, they are afraid of allowing the FBI or anybody else into Benghazi because of the risk to them if they go in there. They don't want a team of FBI agents.

Bad enough politically for them worldwide that an ambassador has been killed. It won't be any better if a team of FBI agents go in and also get killed by local attacks. So, it's a very difficult situation for the FBI to be waiting, if you will, for assurance that the scene is going to be secure enough for them to be able to operate in there.

Also, they are still conducting investigation, as Fran Townsend mentioned. You know, the interviews are being done with witnesses and other people. They're not still in Benghazi. They're either in Tripoli or in other places even possibly back in the United States.

So, witnesses to the event from the U.S. side are being interviewed even now.

COSTELLO: Tom Fuentes, thanks so much for sharing this morning. We appreciate it.

FUENTES: Thank you, Carol. COSTELLO: Today's talk back question, should Michelle Obama's school lunch program continue? Kids say they are starving. We'll talk about the growing controversy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Now is your chance to talk back on one of the stories for the day the question this morning: should Michelle Obama's school lunch program continue?

Food fight. You knew it was coming. I mean what kid likes to eat his fruits and vegetables?

In Kansas City, kids are dumping apples and parties and yearning for more of that yummy square cafeteria pizza. But forget that, school lunches are now healthier -- thanks to new guidelines spearheaded by Michelle Obama and passed by Congress. They mandate calorie count us in school lunches for high schoolers, that means between 750 and 850 calories per meal. Students say, hey, you are staffing us and using their hunger pains to create a parody.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

COSTELLO: Oh, gosh. That's pretty funny.

But the agriculture secretary came back and said, kids, you hungry? Pack a snack.

Still, when it comes down to it what do you do? Should we bring back pizza, potato chips and sugary soda in schools or stick with this? A study in the "American Journal of Preventative Medicine" says that by the year 2030, 42 percent of American adults will be obese. That will cost us an additional half a trillion dollars in health care costs.

So, maybe kids ought to be trained right, if not at home, then in school.

So, the talk back question for you today, should Michelle Obama's school lunch program continue? Facebook.com/CarolCNN, Facebook.com/CarolCNN. Your comments later this hour.

If you are tired of the hundreds and hundreds of political ads flooding the airwaves, this one will get your attention. One group is using a little profanity to wake you up. We'll show you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: And good morning to you. Thank you for joining us. I'm Carol Costello.

Stories we are watching in THE NEWSROOM:

Wall Street is opening with investors on some new numbers. First-time jobless claims for benefits fell last week, hitting the lowest level since July. On the down side, the U.S. economy grew even slower in the second quarter than initially reported. Ringing the opening bell is Tony Best, president and CEO of the SM Energy Company.

Is your money vulnerable to a cyber attack? According to the "L.A. Times," banks like JPMorgan Chase are coordinating with the Homeland Security Department, after a string of cyber attacks hit American financial institutions over the past two weeks. An attack is expected today on PNC Financial Services. The group claiming responsibility says it's in retaliation for the recent anti-Islam movie.

And the Mona Lisa, she might have a sister. The Mona Lisa Foundation claims it can prove the Isleworth Mona Lisa the painting was created by Leonardo Da Vinci. It was taken 35 years of research. The Isleworth painting is larger than the famous version hanging in Paris and believed to be ten years old. There are some people who doubt it was actually Da Vinci's work.

You know about the nation's war on drugs, not only ruled the headlines of the 1980s, it echoed from the Oval Office to the campaign trail.

But what is the nation's anti-drug strategy now?

CNN's John Zarrella continues our week-long look at the issues, big and small, of the presidential election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A fishing trawler tries outrunning a Coast Guard cutter.

The crew of the cutter fires its .50 caliber machine gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's smoke. That's smoke. All right!

ZARRELLA: Disabling the trawler. On board, 20 tons of marijuana. This was the mid-1980s. The drug war was at its height.

Then-Vice President George Bush headed up a task force to fight the problem.

GEORGE H.W. BUSH, THEN-VICE PRESIDENT: We have got to do better in interdicting it.

ZARRELLA: In Miami, cocaine is found hidden in commercial jets, flowers, even boxes of yams. Problem is, some aren't yams at all. Rather plaster casts painted and shaped like yams. Inside, pure coke. Stash houses and drug labs are routinely raided.

(on camera): That was a war on drugs. These days, it's not even a war of words. The White House doesn't even call it a war any longer, focusing more on prevention.

And in this political season, the issue of illicit drugs rarely gets a mention on the campaign trail.

(voice-over): When it does come up, President Obama and Mitt Romney appear to be on the same page.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The president of the United States must make a priority of helping reduce demand in this country.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The United States can focus on drug treatment and prevention.

JUDGE GISELE POLLACK, MISDEMEANOR DRUG COURT: Absolutely. I agree with that.

ZARRELLA: If anyone should know, it's Judge Gisele Pollack. She presides over misdemeanor drug court in Broward County, Florida. The idea? You get clean, you avoid a criminal record.

POLLACK: You've done perfect throughout the entire program. There's no violation of probation.

ZARRELLA: Pollack says drug courts ought to be a priority for the candidates because they reduce drug dependency and save taxpayers millions and she's got the numbers to back it up. A study showed Pollack's court saved the county as much $30 million a year over a five-year period -- basically, the difference in the cost of treatment and counseling versus incarceration.

POLLACK: If we can keep them out of the criminal justice system at this level, then we will save billions and billions in prison costs.

ZARRELLA: For the White House, it's a multilayered approach -- focus on education and prevention, .treat drugs and addiction as a public health issue, not just a criminal justice concern. Law enforcement continues choking off the supply.

This year, the federal government is spending just over $10 billion over prevention and treatment. Law enforcement and corrections just under $10 billion.

Mitt Romney has not outlined how he would allocate federal dollars, but both men say they are not in favor of legalizing marijuana. And both are emphatic that working closely with Mexico, which has supplanted Florida as a favorite drug route, is a must.

Pollack says she'd like more political discussion about drugs in part because substance abuse can be the result of a job loss or top economic times.

POLLACK: We live in a society of aggravating stress. So, it's only natural that people are going to turn to substances, whatever they maybe, to numb their pain or stress.

ZARRELLA: Ironically the most talked about issues leaning to one of the least.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: CNN's John Zarrella joins us now from Miami.

So status quo? Nothing much will change.

ZARRELLA: No, and it seems like the two candidates, at least as far as the drug policy are concerned, from people we talked to, are on the right track. You know, it was a quarter century ago, Carol, a DEA agent said to me, he said, you know what, as long as there is demand, there will always be people out there willing to supply it.

So, the message seems to finally, after all these years, gotten through, that the answer may well be really focus on curtailing demand, educating young people against the dangers of drugs. That may finally work.

COSTELLO: Maybe. John Zarrella reporting live for us this morning.

ZARRELLA: Sure.

COSTELLO: J.K. Rowling, you know, famous author of Harry Potter, you know about her new book. It's about teen sex, cutting class and class warfare. Wait until you hear how many copies have already been sold.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Bored by the election, tired of all the political attack ads that are flooding the airwaves?

Well, there is a new ad that stars Samuel L. Jackson and it's designed to wake up unenthusiastic Democrats.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAMUEL L. JACKSON, ACTOR: We are all on our own if Romney has his way and he is against safety nets. If you fall? Tough luck. So I strongly suggest that you wake the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.

How about that student loan overhaul? It's going to save you thousands of bucks? Mitt will cut that (EXPLETIVE DELETED) in a second.

Dude, wake the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: There's a reason Samuel L. Jackson is using you that catchy wake the F up line. This morning, Republican strategist Dick Morris a side on his Web site, most pollsters are weighing their data on the assumption that the 2012 electorate will turn out in the same proportion as the 2008 voters did. But polling indicates a distant lack of enthusiasm for the president among his core constituency.

So let's talk about that.

CNN contributor Will Cain leans right. CNN political analyst Roland Martin leans -- why are -- are you laughing at Samuel L. Jackson?

ROLAND MARTIN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Oh, my gosh, Sam is the man. First of all, if you don't follow him on Twitter, you need to.

I mean, but here's the deal, though, OK? I know some people will say, oh, my God, it's the language. Guess how much money R-rated films make all the time and we know his classy rants in "Pulp Fiction" and in "Shaft" as well. So, why not have Shaft gets folks excited about voting? I say, way to go, Sam.

COSTELLO: So, Will, give me your critique of Samuel L. Jackson's Obama ad?

WILL CAIN, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: My film critique. Oh, OK. Are we rolling on a three-second delay here? I do get the same liberties that Samuel L. Jackson takes?

COSTELLO: No, you don't.

MARTIN: Try it. Try it.

COTELLO: No.

CAIN: Should I try it? No. Whatever. It's fine. I mean, it's funny.

I think we take politics too seriously sometimes. So, yes, bring a little colloquialism to it.

COSTELLO: OK. So, let's get down to the core issue here. Dick Morris is saying, yes, President Obama maybe leading among minorities and young people but those people traditionally don't get out to vote and they're not really that excited about President Obama anyway. So is Dick Morris right, Will?

CAIN: Dick Morris has a point. First of all, I hate talking about polls and I know Roland does as well, because (a), I hate the idea that politicians are constantly checking polls and adjusting their message; and (b), I hate trying to interpret these things as though I have a crystal ball.

However, we'll tell you this -- I know this, Carol, a lot of the polls coming out, heard the topic du jour this week, conservatives think some of these mainstream polls are skewed because what they're showing is a larger Democratic turnout than the historic Democratic turnout in 2008. In 2008, on the cusp of an historic election, first black president to, you know, about to be elected, you had an amazing turnout among minorities and youth vote.

So, what these polls today are showing, is they're projecting a larger turnout than that. And that's a little bit of a stretch. That's a little harder to stomach in a downed economy.

So I'm very skeptical you will see that turnout again.

MARTIN: There is one thing I do in this world, Carol, I never, ever listen to anything Dick Morris has to say. I mean, do you know how wrong he has been? I mean, seriously, he probably gets his name wrong each day.

The bottom line is this here. Republicans complaining about the polls. FOX News did polls showing the president leading. Last night I checked, they are not liberal. Last I checked. So, the bottom line is this here -- they are not measuring in terms of the turnout. They are simply measuring where folks are right now.

CAIN: That's not --

MARTIN: One second, Will. Both campaigns are going to be looking at what happens to the first week of early voting to get a sense of where the voters are. The bottom line, I've always said this year, no election is won by any poll. You have to turn your people out.

What the polls give you is an indication of where you're weak, where you're strong and how you need to proceed forward. And so, at the end of the day, I don't pay attention to any poll. If you don't get your folks out, a poll today is irrelevant. You will lose.

COSTELLO: I will say, as far as Mitt Romney is concerned, will, he is definitely softening his image, changing his tone. Surely, he is looking at these polls and he is worried, even though he says he's not.

CAIN: Right. OK, a couple points, Roland says no poll affects the turnout of the election.

MARTIN: That's not what I said.

COSTELLO: It's Will's turn.

MARTIN: That's not what I said.

CAIN: Ask the CIA polls and their influence across the world about that point Roland makes.

Second, it's not an issue whether or not Obama is ahead. He surely is ahead and that FOX News poll reflects it. The question is by how much. And the polls taken to account likely voters. That's where turnout comes in. They try to adjust it for what they think the turnout will be, adjusting the proportion of Democrats and Republicans in their poll.

Now, I fully admit, regardless of the percentage, President Obama looks to be ahead and Mitt Romney does need to soften his image as you said, Carol, and adjust his mess. And he is working on that, that's obvious in Ohio, in Florida and Pennsylvania and some of these important swing states.

COSTELLO: Yes. And we are going to talk about it in the next hour that brings touts end of another fascinating discussion, which I enjoy.

MARTIN: Wake up!

COSTELLO: Wake up.

CAIN: Test the delay. Test the delay.

MARTIN: Wake the -- COSTELO: Thanks, guys.

MARTIN: You know I cuss you out, Will, so don't start.

COSTELLO: Oh, God, please do it off the air. I want to keep my job. Thanks to both of you.

J.K. Rowling, let's talk about her. Actually, she has a pretty racy book out, it's for adults. And I mean, it this one of the most anticipated books in the history of America. And Britain, actually, it seems. We'll talk about that.

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COSTELLO: J.K. Rowling's new book is on sale today and it's already a bestseller. And if it ever becomes a movie, it certainly won't look like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's find out where it is --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Rowling's famous "Harry Potter" series features dragons and magic but her new book is strictly for adults. It's called "Casual Vacancy" and plot looks of social tensions and class warfare in an English village. Something your kids -- well it depends on how young they are but not for them.

Erin McLaughlin joins us from a book store in London oh, and I see the copies behind you. I'm jealous.

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi Carol. Yes, it's actually pretty quiet here at this book store in west London. Though I do understand the pre-sales for -- the "Casual Vacancy" have been strong already topping some bestsellers list.

At least Carol we haven't seen the kind of frenzy that surrounded some of the Potter launches, the long lines, the wizard costumes. I haven't seen one.

That being said, people still are very curious about this book. It is after all very different than books of Rowling's past. It's an adult book and an interview that aired on ABC's "Good Morning, America", she talks a bit about her inspiration. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is adolescent sex?

J.K. ROWLING, WRITER: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is cutting?

ROWLING: Yes. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There's death?

ROWLING: Yes. But it's a comedy. There are all of those things. When I -- when I read the blurb, it said it's a black comedy, I thought that may be hard to describe it I would maybe have said it's a comic tragedy.

We have an adult character in the book who has an obsessive compulsive disorder and these are -- there are things I know from the inside. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The OCD part of it as well?

ROWLING: When I was in my teens, I had issues with OCD.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: I was just fascinated listening to her because you know, if you think about it, what if people read it and they really don't like it and how will she really feel about that?

MCLAUGHLIN: Well, absolutely. So far from the few -- the handful of journalists that have received advanced copies, the reviews have been mixed. Some people loved IT. Some people thought it quite dull, Carol. So really it depends on your tastes, but it's a very a dark book. Definitely not one for children -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Definitely not, Erin McLaughlin, thank you so much.

NFL fans may be cheering guys they usually boo; the regular refs are coming back tonight. We'll talk about what it took to end the lockout.

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COSTELLO: Well, the regular NFL refs take the field tonight for the first time since the Super Bowl and we have to point to that Monday night debacle for getting the deal done.

Let's bring some Baltimore Suns sports columnist Peter Schmuck, he's on the phone. Morning, Peter.

PETER SCHMUCK, SPORTS COLUMNIST, BALTIMORE SUN (via telephone): Good morning. How are you doing?

COSTELLO: So I am -- I'm doing great. And I'm really happy that the regular refs are back. I'm predicting there will be a standing ovation in the stadium in Baltimore for these refs tonight.

SCHMUCK: Well, you're probably right. I don't know that they're going to actually introduce them, but I think everybody that is an NFL fan is rejoicing today that this national nightmare is over.

But let's step back just a bit and realize that it's very possible that tonight could be another messy game because these officials have not worked together in a year -- half a year or so. And there are some rule changes that they have to adapt to. So I'm afraid there might be a little more of the same.

COSTELLO: Well, I don't think the NFL could risk bringing the -- bringing in replacement refs. I mean don't you think they were so pressured by fans and players to get the regular refs on the field, they had no choice?

SCHMUCK: No, they don't have any choice. And it's the right thing to do. I -- because even though these refs will be a little bit rusty, they -- they do understand the nuances of certain kinds of plays that clearly the replacement refs did not understand. And you saw what happened on Monday night.

And even Sunday night here in Baltimore with the Patriots game. It was an absolute mess. It was an absolute -- frankly, absolute disgrace that has damaged the integrity of the NFL season and irreparably particularly for the Green Bay Packers. So they had to do this. I'm -- I'm just saying that it's going to take awhile for the whole thing to smooth out.

COSTELLO: Yes, you've covered these sports negotiations before. Is it kind of incredible though that the NFL seemed to bend and got that deal done? I mean is it a victory for -- for union workers everywhere?

SCHMUCK: Well, I guess it's going to be cast that way. I don't know that the NFL lost these negotiations. They certainly didn't get the total victory that they always seem to want and what caused the -- the mindset that caused this to get to this point.

But those of us who have covered labor negotiations, I've covered it back to the 1980's and covered that horrible baseball work stoppage in 1994, know that in each of these negotiations when they're at -- when they're at a kind of an impasse, something always happens. Something comes into the equation that causes it to move forward.

And that was Monday night. I think the moment -- I think the moment is that -- that that the wrong team, it was obvious to everyone that the wrong team was awarded the victory. I think everyone knew that Roger Goodell could not take the chance on having another nationally televised game three days later and have the same thing happen essentially for the third straight time.

COSTELLO: Yes and I shudder to think if that kind of thing happened in Baltimore because the fans there are, let's say, passionate.

SCHMUCK: Well, they are. They're not Eagles fans, so I don't think that they would tear down the stadium if something went wrong. And then also very, very happy right now because they -- the Ravens did get the victory against the Patriots at home on Sunday night. Last night a huge victory for the Orioles who appear -- appear headed for a playoff berth for the first time in 15 years.

So it's a happy fan following right now. But let's see what happens by the end of tonight's game.

COSTELLO: Yes they are playing the Browns, they'll be happy. Thanks very much, Peter Schmuck, we appreciate it.

SCHMUCK: Thank you.

COSTELLO: "Talk Back" question for you today, "Should Michelle Obama's school lunch program continue?" Your responses next.

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COSTELLO: Our "Talk Back" question this morning, "Should Michelle Obama's school lunch program continue?"

This from David, "Of course it should. Kids are the future of this nation. Every tool we have to make them healthy and educated should be used."

This from Patricia, "No, it should not. Why is she trying to dictate what our children eat? She's not their parents or God. Our schools have turned to sweet potato fries and my kids hate sweet potatoes."

This from Daniel, "Isn't school all about learning anyway? Surely learning how to eat properly should be a part of the educational experience?"

This from John, "It's only the older kids who aren't taking so kindly to the changes because they've been eating mostly junk up until this point. The younger kids are taking to the changes well."

And this from Jeff, "If the kids don't like what the school provide they can bring their own lunch to school. Obesity is a huge problem in America."

Facebook.com/CarolCNN, please keep the conversation going.

The next hour of NEWSROOM starts right now.

And stories we're watching right now in the NEWSROOM, Mitt Romney and Barack Obama have just 40 more days to convince you they should be president. And for the third day in a row, the two men are campaigning in the same state.