Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

So-called Bombshell Video Really Old News?; More Trouble for American Airlines; Beer Sales on the Rise; TV News Anchor Calls Out Bullies; The Great Debate; Pastors to Get Political; First Presidential Debate Just Hours Away

Aired October 03, 2012 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Of course we want to remind you the first presidential is on tonight on CNN, 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Complete analysis obviously tomorrow morning right here on STARTING POINT at 7:00 a.m.

"CNN NEWSROOM" with Carol Costello begins right now. We'll see you tomorrow.

Hey, Carol.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Soledad. Thank you.

Happening now in the NEWSROOM. Tale of the tapes. Two videos emerged on the eve of the first presidential debate. They're designed to stir controversy. But is anything really new here?

New this morning, more trouble for American Airlines. An emergency landing for one flight after seats come loose on three others.

Teachable moment. A Wisconsin TV anchor takes on a viewer who called her fat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JENNIFER LIVINGSTON, WKBT NEWS ANCHOR: That attacks like this are not OK.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Hear the advice she gives to children being bullied.

And celebrating like an NHL star. A junior hockey player scores a goal. But instead of bouncing off the glass, he crashes right through it.

NEWSROOM starts now.

And good morning to you. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm Carol Costello. The countdown is on. The first presidential debate just 12 hours away. It's quiet now at Magnus Arena at the University of Denver. But later it will provide the backdrop of what could be a game-changer. And as the candidates continue to prepare, a tape surfaces, one that Tucker Carlson's conservative website, "The Daily Caller," bills as Obama's other race speech. A clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: These quiet riots that take place every day are borne from the same place as the fires and destruction and the police decked out in riot gear. They happen when a sense of disconnect settles in and hope dissipates. Despair takes hold in young people all across the country, look at the way the world is and they believe that things are never going to get better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Reality check. This tape is not new. It was an open press event recorded in its entirety in 2007. And many media outlets, including CNN, extensively covered it. Even Tucker Carlson -- Tucker Carlson himself covered it in 2007.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TUCKER CARLSON, THE DAILY CALLER: Barack Obama was talking about a quiet riot today. No, it was not a reference to 1980s heavy metal band unfortunately. The senator waded into the controversial waters of race during a speech at Hampton University in Virginia.

He said the Bush administration has done little to quell a brewing storm among some black Americans. He compared the current tension to what fueled the L.A. riots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Yes. Tucker Carlson worked for MSNBC back in the day. In fact, even CNN's headline that day in 2007 read like this. "Obama, Quiet Riot, Could Erupt Like L.A. Riots."

Ron Brownstein is a senior political analyst for CNN and the editorial director of the "National Journal."

Welcome, Ron.

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning, Carol.

So the Romney camp distanced itself from this tape. The Obama camp said Republicans are trying to change the subject and are desperate from that 47 percent thing. Is this tape important in any way?

BROWNSTEIN: I think probably not very significant for several reasons. First you point out one of them, which is that this was hardly a secret tape. It's in the tape library of most of the networks, including CNN. It was a publicly covered event. The "quiet riot" language was discussed extensively at the time, not only on -- with Tucker but on FOX. Maureen Dowd wrote about it. ABC talked about it. You know, but two other points that maybe even more important than the fact that this was widely shared, one is that what he said really is not that remarkable for a Democratic politician, in particular, white or black. The idea that an absence of opportunity and a kind of sense of hopelessness contributes to a lack of structure and lawlessness in inner city communities is not some radical notion, even at the time. And more importantly than that, this election -- I think the overwhelming evidence is that voters want this to be a forward-looking election. That's part of the problem that Romney and the Republicans have had. They want it to be a retrospective referendum on the first term.

The voters are not really moving in that way. They're kind of asking what -- who's going to be better for the next four years. And the idea that something from 2007 is going to disrupt that pattern seems to be kind of incredible.

COSTELLO: OK. So that said, I can't imagine Romney will bring this up overtly but could he subtly use this in the debate?

BROWNSTEIN: You know, I don't know. I honestly don't think he's going to go there himself. I mean this is the kind of thing that happens around the penumbra of a campaign, usually by outside groups or outside activists, and the reality is, Carol, this is an intensely racially polarized country when it comes to our politics. And we are -- you know, we're seeing an election where Barack Obama is probably going to win somewhere around the votes of 80 percent of all minority voters, growing share of the electorate, but only around 40 percent of white voters.

And it's going to be a real challenge after this election trying to bring the country together to govern. Already in 2008 he was the first candidate ever to lose whites by double-digits and win. He lost them 55-43. So, you know, there is a racial element that is in the backdrop here. Not necessarily racism, but very different views about the role of government, very different views about the parties.

And if this moves things at the margin, could it matter? Sure. But as again, I think this -- the overwhelming evidence among those last slice of voters are going to decide this. They are forward looking at this point. And I think 2007 is a long way to reach back when you're dealing with 8 percent unemployment.

COSTELLO: Ron Brownstein, thanks so much.

The debate isn't just stressful for the presidential candidates, it's also stressful for their wives. Both Michelle Obama and Ann Romney are talking about their role in the debates. The first lady says she mostly offers positive reinforcement but she does get nervous.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE OBAMA, FIRST LADY: I get so nervous at these debates and, you know, I'm like one of those parents watching their kid on the balance beam. You're just standing there, just trying not to, you know, have any expression at all. (END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ann Romney says she comforts her husband during the debates and he looks for her in the audience. She talked up one of Mitt's traditions, too.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANN ROMNEY, MITT ROMNEY'S WIFE: As soon as he gets on stage, the first thing he does -- actually there's -- there are a few first things he does. He takes off his watch, he puts it on the podium.

(LAUGHTER)

But then he writes "dad" on a piece of paper.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Says her husband respects his father and wants to make him proud.

CNN's live coverage of tonight's debate begins at 7:00 p.m. Eastern. Be sure to join us.

There is more trouble this morning for American Airlines following those problems with the loose seats.

Our affiliate KMOV says Flight 1862 left Dallas for St. Louis yesterday but it had to return because of landing gear problems. Passengers say people were crying when the flight crew told passengers to prepare for an emergency landing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They said the landing gear, you're, like, OK, the wheel might like break or, you know, you just don't know what's going to happen. So it was really, really scary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: This comes after three recent American flights had seats come loose while the plane was in flight. Pilots were concerned those loose seats could become projectiles.

CNN's George Howell is following the story.

So what's the airline saying this morning about all of these problems?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, OK, so we're talking about one plane where this happened twice, on two separate flights. We're talking about passengers who started the flight, you know, on one row. And by the time that plane landed they found themselves in the row back behind them. So it was a real safety issue.

Then it happened again on another plane with passengers on board. But American Airlines says that they found the problem. These clamps that were put on backwards, put on improperly. And they are working to fix it. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CAMPBELL, AA HEAD OF SAFETY, SECURITY AND MAINTENANCE: Guys who work with us every single day, they're engineers, they're tech crew chiefs, you know, they've gone in, they believe -- they've determined what they believe is the -- is a potential failure, but beyond a failure, we're focusing our attention on making sure that the problem is being solved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOWELL: So, Carol, the focus has been on these 757s, nearly half of the 757s that American flies. They've inspected 36 of those planes. They have 11 more planes to inspect. But so far they found six planes with the same problem, including the two that I mentioned earlier. This problem where the seats could come loose.

COSTELLO: So when you talk about a clamp, the clamp holds the seat to the floor of the plane and supposedly they weren't --

HOWELL: For some reason it was backwards.

COSTELLO: It was backward.

HOWELL: Yes.

COSTELLO: And that's why it came loose.

HOWELL: Yes.

COSTELLO: So supposedly having checked all their planes out and they've solved this problem, but many people are still wondering, is it safe to fly American? I mean the people on the flight we just talked about earlier, they were crying when the pilot said we had to make an emergency landing.

HOWELL: It's interesting, we talked to some passengers, passengers at LaGuardia in New York and they said, you know, we will continue to fly the airline. The problem that they have, it's the ongoing labor dispute. Now as you know, it's been a long, contentious labor dispute. At one point American Airlines, they blamed the pilots association for causing all of these delays that have dogged the airline. Of course, the union disagreed with that.

But some interesting timing on the story, Carol, just as this big news broke yesterday with these loose seats we got word that the APA is going to resume negotiations with American Airlines. I want to read a statement here from American Airlines where they say, "We are committed to working with the APA and we're pleased that we have jointly agreed to resume negotiations this week."

So, Carol, a bit of good news after a rough week with American Airlines.

COSTELLO: George Howell, thanks so much. Manhunt now under way for the killer of a Border Patrol agent. Thirty-year-old Nicholas Ivie was shot dead after he responded to a sensor going off in southern Arizona near the border of Mexico. A second agent was wounded but he is expected to survive. FBI now investigating. Ivie is the third Border Patrol agent to die in the line of duty this year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHELLE IVIE, SISTER-IN-LAW: I'm just in shock right now. Nick was the most tenderhearted, kind, gentle, loving person you would ever meet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Ivie left behind a wife and two daughters.

Need a sign that the economy is picking up? Well, belly up to the bar. Beer sales are up for the first time since 2008.

Alison Kosik is at the New York Stock Exchange.

So is this a bellwether?

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It is, you know, just like lipstick. I don't know if you knew that. Lipstick sales, they went up during the recession because, you know, it made women feel like they were giving themselves a treat. They couldn't spend big on other things. So yes, beer is a great indicator. And it looks like young men appeared to be pushing up beer sales.

You know, brewers have said that beer sales have kind of struggled over the past few years because young, blue-collared guys were hit hard by the the recession. And those are really the key customers. So now there's a recovery. The unemployment rate is falling for men in their 20s. You know, might be a good reason beer sales are rising. You know what? More jobs means more money to spend.

The "Wall Street Journal" says beer sales are actually up almost 2 percent this year. That follows three years of decline.

You know, it really is a fun way of looking at the economy, it's how beer is affected by how the economy is doing. But you know overall -- you're laughing. Overall it's typically considered recession proof because think about it, Carol. It's cheap. But, you know, for eight or nine bucks, you can get a nice six-pack at home without breaking the bank. You know, and then there's President Obama, he even has a home brewing kit. All sorts of ways to drink your beer.

COSTELLO: I like when you say it's a fun way at looking at the economy.

(LAUGHTER)

COSTELLO: It is.

KOSIK: Just try to make it fun and entertaining.

COSTELLO: We'll have a brew after the show. Thank you very much, Alison Kosik.

An epic smackdown and a star is born. Jennifer Livingston, a news anchor in Lacrosse, Wisconsin, had more than a few choice words for a fan who criticized her weight. That fan wrote, quote, "Obesity is one of the worst choices a person can make." And then he advised Livingston to, quote, "Reconsider your responsibility to present and promote a healthy lifestyle."

Well, Livingston responded in a scathing four-minute editorial speaking directly to that man who sent her that e-mail. His name is Kenneth Krause.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIVINGSTON: To the person who wrote me that letter, do you think I don't know that? That your cruel words are pointing out something that I don't see? You don't know me. You are not a friend of mine. You are not part of my family and you have admitted that you don't watch this show. So you know nothing about me but what you see on the outside. And I am much more than a number on a scale.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Livingston says the e-mail was hurtful but she was more concerned about children who are bullied by such comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LIVINGSTON: But what really angers me about this is there are children who don't know better, who get e-mails as critical as the one I received or, in many cases, even worse each and every day.

The Internet has become a weapon. Our schools have become a battleground.

Listen to me right now. Do not let your self worth be defined by bullies. Learn from my experience, that the cruel words of one are nothing compared to the shouts of many.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. So the fan, Mr. Krause, he responded again, not to apologize but instead offered this. He hopes that she will, quote, "Take advantage of a rare and golden opportunity to influence the health and psychological well-being of the Coulee Region Children by transforming herself over the next year." End quote.

Livingston made the rounds on the network morning shows and we'll hear from her in the next hour.

Style, substance, or is there's something else completely what you the voter want to hear at tonight's debate?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It is 16 minutes past the hour.

Checking our top stories:

CNN has confirmed the United States is identifying targets in Libya for possible military action. After last month's deadly U.S. consulate attack that killed four Americans, including the ambassador, a senior U.S. official stresses no final list of targets has been compiled and the U.S. would likely seek cooperation from Libya before launching any strikes.

Back here at home. Two people have died, 11 remain in the hospital and two have died after contracting non-contagious meningitis from steroid injections. All but one of the victims received the injections from a medical facility shown here in Nashville, Tennessee.

That facility has since closed and will remain shutdown until an investigation is completed.

Turning to the economy, new data from payroll firm ADP shows the private sector added 162,000 jobs last month. While that beats forecasts, it is a slowdown from August. ADP data is closely watched as it is released just before the government's jobs report, which is due out this Friday.

And the economy will be a key focus for political junkies, pundits and the undecideds -- all whom will likely be glued to their TV screens tonight during the first face-off between President Obama and Governor Mitt Romney.

And in New Hampshire, home of the nation's first primary, voters will be looking to the candidates for less spin and for more of what my next guest calls, quote, "blunt New England style honesty."

He is Paul Westcott and he joins us now from Manchester, New Hampshire. He's the host of "The Paul Westcott Show" on radio station WGIR-AM.

Hi, Paul.

PAUL WESTCOTT, WGIR-AM: Hey. Good morning.

COSTELLO: Good morning. Thank you so much for being here.

Do you think the candidates will deliver?

WESTCOTT: Well, we all hope so. You know, honestly, it really is about having an honest conversation and making sure that they actually get down to brass tax as opposed to the thousands upon thousands of ads we've been showered with here in the Granite State over the past year.

So, that's really, at the end of the day, what people are looking for -- real solutions, ideas, manufacturing jobs, how do we get those back to the state and to the country. COSTELLO: So you don't want to hear zingers?

WESTCOTT: Well, zingers will be fun for me. I'm a talk radio host. But for people out there listening, and really New Hampshire voters, I think they're looking for Mitt Romney to be tough, they're looking for the president to be tough. But I really at the end of the day think they want solutions.

COSTELLO: Recent poll conducted in part by the University of New Hampshire and WMUR showed President Obama up a stunning 15 percent in New Hampshire. Does that accurately reflect what you're hearing and seeing in the state?

WESTCOTT: Well, not really. That 15-point poll, we had former Governor John Sununu on the show yesterday, and he came on and he was very pretty blunt about it, calling it garbage. So, at the end of the day, what I would say is that when you're talking about that kind of poll, with that much of a skew -- we call it an outlier here in New Hampshire, that's a 15-point lead for the president is pretty obscure. I would say it's much, much closer than that, closer to the four to seven points that the president has been ahead polls really since the convention.

COSTELLO: Both candidates have been a subject of some high profile, viral videos in recent weeks, one featuring Mitt Romney talking about the so-called 47 percent, the other a 2007 video showing President Obama talking about race, the Reverend Wright and hurricane Katrina.

What are voters telling you? I mean, are these videos resonating?

WESTCOTT: Well, I'll be honest. These voters are so worn down at this point, not only from the primary here in the state of New Hampshire. But over the past several months, with all of the attack ads and the back and forth, and the black and white grainy video -- I don't know that they recognize either of the candidates if they weren't in slow motion in black and white.

I mean, at the end of the day, I think what these voters are looking for is unless it's an extremely radical video, showing something -- even the 47 percent video which seemed to resonate with a lot of the country, that wasn't as big of a deal here in New Hampshire. What people are looking for is what these folks and what their solution is for jobs, the economy and things that are more substantive rather than viral videos -- unless it's, as I said, something really, really extreme.

COSTELLO: Well, we'll all be watching tonight. And hopefully, we'll get some answers, some honest answers.

Thank you so much, Paul Westcott, for joining us this morning.

WESTCOTT: My pleasure.

COSTELLO: The talk back question: what would you ask the candidates in tonight's debate? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Now is your chance to talk back in one of the big stories of the day. The question for you this morning: what would you ask the candidates in tonight's debate? Have you seen those up close and personal ads just released by President Obama and Governor Mitt Romney, you know, the ones where they attempt to cut through the noise and speak directly to you?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: We shouldn't measure compassion by how many people are on welfare. We should measure compassion by how many people are able to get off welfare and get a good-paying job.

OBAMA: If I could sit down with you in your living room or around the kitchen table, here's what I would say -- when I took office, we were losing nearly 800,000 jobs a month and were mired in Iraq. Today, I believe, that as a nation, we are moving forward again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: President Obama sitting around the kitchen table?

OK. We'd like to turn that idea on its head. What if you could moderate tonight's debate? Well, now is your chance. The topics are endless, from health care to the deficit, to social security, to immigration -- and whatever else you could think of to ask either he candidate or both of them. You've got 90 minutes to moderate this debate. So, gloves off.

Talk back today, what would you ask the candidates in tonight's debate?

Facebook.com/CarolCNN, Facebook.com/CarolCNN. Your responses later this hour.

Hundreds of pastors from across America will get explicitly political from the pulpit this weekend. They actually want the IRS to make them pay taxes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Coming up on 30 minutes past the hour. Good morning to you. I'm Carol Costello.

Stories we're watching right now in the NEWSROOM:

We're about one minute away from the opening bell at the New York Stock Exchange. LifeLock's CEO Todd Davis ringing the bell today. Stock futures are up after a better than expected jobs report from payroll processor ADP.

The Labor Department's monthly jobs report is due on Friday.

Soil taken last week from a metro Detroit home does not contain any human remains. Police were searching the area after getting a tip that a body was buried there, a day after former Teamsters leader Jimmy Hoffa disappeared in 1975.

About half of the Great Barrier Reef has disappeared since the 1980s. A new report is urging Australian officials to act to save it. One solution maybe killing the crown-of-thrones starfish that feed on coral. Most of the damage is from the starfish and tropical cyclones.

First presidential debate will be taking place tonight at the University of Denver. The Obama campaign, the Romney campaign and the media all gearing up for tonight.

CNN's political director, Mark Preston, has a behind-the-scenes look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK PRESTON, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: As you can see, reporters from around the world are setting up to cover this debate, 3,000 in total, 700 of them are coming from other countries.

So let's head inside where the action is going to take place.

You might be wondering, who is actually going to be sitting in the audience tonight for the first presidential debate? I don't know the answer, but Peter Eyre with the Commission on President Debates does.

PETER EYRE, COMMISSION ON PRESIDENTIAL DEBATES: So, on Wednesday, at the University of Denver, we'll have students, VIPs and those that the campaigns have invited down on the floor and some up in the balcony behind us.

PRESTON: So how do you get invited to this debate if you don't get an invitation from one of the candidates?

EYRE: It would be very difficult to get into the debate.

PRESTON: Who is going to be at that far podium?

EYRE: So, at the far podium will be Governor Romney and then at the near podium will be President Obama.

PRESTON: And how is it going to work? Who's going to get the first question?

EYRE: So, Mr. Lehrer will direct the first question to President Obama. He will have two minutes to respond. Then Governor Romney will have two minutes to respond to that same question.

PRESTON: How is this all going to work in this 90-minute debate format?

EYRE: So we think having these six segments will really encourage detailed discussion about these topics and Mr. Lehrer will try to facilitate an in-depth discussion that is substantive and really focuses on the details. PRESTON: So you might think the best seat in the house is on the floor. But I would argue it's on this riser right here is where all the technical magic happens right now. We'll be broadcasting the debate. It's also going to be where Candy Crowley will be sitting and as she gives her analysis about what she expects to see tonight.

If you wonder where I'm going to be tonight? I'm sitting in my seat right here, in the press center filing center where hundreds of journalists will be here tonight, reporting on the debate. As you can see, there are TV monitors set up all across this plait place. And in a sign of the times it looks like Mitt Romney has his own TV studio set up, probably a place where they can put guests out to do interviews with local television stations across the country. It's also a place where they'll be watching the debate.

Not to be outdone, right here behind the red curtain, it looks like Barack Obama has the same kind of setup. Of course, these two studios butt up against what we call the spin room, where we'll see surrogates and some of the top campaign officials that are going to come after the debate and try to tell us why they think their candidate won.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Fascinating. Mark Preston is in Denver right now.

Hey, Mark, the candidates will have one final walk through before they take to the stage tonight, right?

PRESTON: Yes, they certainly will. What's really interesting, Carol, is that this is taking place in the important state of Colorado, where there's nine electoral votes on the line.

So, we'll the first presidential debate here at the University of Denver, but it also happens to be in a state that they are fighting very hard for.

COSTELLO: Mark Preston, thanks for a look backstage. It's fascinating.

CNN's live coverage begins at 7:00 pm Eastern. Be sure to join us.

Preaching politics from the pulpit. Why they are daring the IRS to interfere -- that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: This weekend, hundreds of pastors across the country plan on giving explicitly political sermons and may even endorse a candidate. If it sounds like a violation of separation of church and state, it is meant to be. Those pastors will be sending recordings of those sermons to the IRS.

Joining us now is a big supporter and participant of "Pulpit Freedom Sunday", Jim Garlow, senior pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in California.

Welcome, Pastor.

JIM GARLOW, PASTOR: Thank you. Good to be with you.

COSTELLO: Nice to have you here.

Your goal is to provoke the IRS to take away your tax exempt status. Tell us why.

GARLOW: Well, 1954, the Johnson Amendment took away freedom of speech, freedom of religion.

Our belief is that there should be a separation of church and state that you alluded to that there should be no government intrusion into the pulpit at all. In 1954, that changed, taking away 166 years of pulpit freedom. We've been trying to restore that and see the Johnson Amendment taken to court and be unconstitutional based on the first amendment. In hopes of seeing a court case so that the Johnson Amendment can officially be thrown out and pastors can, once again, have their first amendment rights back.

COSTELLO: So, will you endorse a candidate during your sermon this Sunday?

GARLOW: Pastor Kenneth, they want to. I plan on doing exactly that. What we're saying is that's the freedom of the choice of the pastor. And pastor doesn't have to endorse he doesn't want or she doesn't want to. That's up to them.

But if they want to, that is a right that we have. And we're simply saying we're trying to reclaim what was lost.

Of the 29 categories of 501-c, only of them has a speech restriction put on it. It's 501-c-3, which happens to be churches. Lyndon Banes Johnson, the ones who put that through, his chief legislative aide would later acknowledge that they never had churches in mind at all when that passed. They were aimed at two businessmen that had 501c3s in Texas when they got that passed.

So, it swept in churches and they didn't intend for it to apply to churches.

COSTELLO: Well, of course, the IRS has a whole different view than you. The IRS says, you know, you're going to lose because tax exempt is a privilege. And the United States does have to subsidize your First Amendment activities. And our government separates government and religion. Why not preach politics outside of church? Why is it so important to preach politics from the pulpit?

GARLOW: Well, the Constitution gives me that right, number one. Number two, I don't call it political. I have that biblical.

(CROSSTALK)

COSTELLO: But you don't have the right in this country, but you don't have the right -- according to the laws of our land, you have a right to preach politics from the pulpit. GARLOW: That's incorrect.

COSTELLO: You don't have the right to endorse a candidate in church.

GARLOW: No, it's never been taken to court. For 58 years, they've been trying to provoke it to court to see if it's constitutional or not. It's not gotten there. There have been many, many attempts.

So, if it's all that unconstitutional, let's get it to court and let's decide. And beside, I think the pastor should be able to speak on biblical applications, not only personal and family life, but it applies to national issues as well. That should be the right the pastor.

No pastor has to or simply it's a right we have based upon freedom of religion and freedom of speech.

COSTELLO: So, if you feel so strongly that your political voice should be heard, why not give up your tax exempt status? Why challenge the IRS this way?

GARLOW: Well, take that up with Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin. They said there should be true separation of church and state. That means that would include such a thing as tax exemption.

Supreme Court would later say if the government can tax a church, it can control it and manipulate it. Most people would not want their pastors to be controlled and manipulated by the state even in the arena of speech restriction as well. That's why we're making the case. It's time to take this to court and see if it's constitutional or not. And that 2,200 attorneys of the Alliance Defending Freedom contend that it is, in fact, unconstitutional.

COSTELLO: Can't you preach politics outside of church? You can say whatever you want to outside of church. Why not gather your congregation at a restaurant somewhere and endorse whoever you're going to endorse for president?

GARLOW: On what basis would you deny me the right as a pastor to be able to speak on any topic I want to from my pulpit? Do we need pulpit police now to monitor what 300,000 pastors are saying in America? I'm simply saying a pastor should be able to if they want to. If they don't want to, they don't have to. But it's their church and their pulpit. And the pastor should decide, not the IRS.

COSTELLO: If you get the IRS to take you to court, would you be willing to lose your tax exempt status to have this --

GARLOW: The pastors that are speaking out are willing to be taken to court because they're convinced and the attorneys are convinced that, in fact, the Johnson Amendment is unconstitutional.

COSTELLO: Are you willing to lose your tax exempt status?

GARLOW: I'm certainly willing to go to court. It may result in tax exempt status lost. No pastor or church would want that. We're willing to take the risk to go to court and let's find out whether it is or not.

COSTELLO: Just a final thought, when I go to church, I want to hear about how to be a better person. I don't want to hear about politics that's so partisan and vile these days on both sides. I just want to be comforted. I don't want to be told how to vote.

GARLOW: Well, I think that's your privilege. You ought to go to church that does exactly that. We're saying that that is also your privilege as it is a pastor's privilege not to speak on any of the above topics.

If, for example, the pastors in Europe and Germany at a particular time did not speak out against Hitler, how good was that? How did that work out for us?

We think that a pastor should have the right to speak out, if they so desire. That's what freedom of religion and freedom of speech is about. This applies not just the conservative churches. This is conservative, this is liberal, this is any pastor of any kind of church anywhere where the First Amendment applies.

COSTELLO: Pastor Garlow, thanks for joining us this morning.

GARLOW: Good to be with you. Thank you.

COSTELLO: Smashing success on the ice. Goal scorer jumps for joy, but shatters the glass on the way down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Meet Jennifer Pahlka, founder of Code for America. It's kind of a Peace Corps for geeks.

JENNIFER PAHLKA, CODE FOR AMERICA: Most people have seen that really geeks have changed the world so much in the past 10 or 20 years, that they haven't changed government yet.

We get people to take a year off. It's geeks. It's also designers. It's product managers, people from the technical industries. We get them to work with people in city hall to solve problems in cities for a year.

GUPTA: She wants to fix local government one smartphone app at a time. It's Sunday on "THE NEXT LIST."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Forty-five minutes past the hour. Checking our "Top Stories" now.

Former Penn State assistant football coach Mike McQueary is filing a whistle-blower suit against the university, claiming he was the only assistant football coach not invited to a job interview with the school's new football coach. McQueary was pivotal in the case against Jerry Sandusky, testifying he saw Sandusky in a shower with a young boy.

More trouble for American Airlines. Our affiliate KMOV says a flight from St. Louis from Dallas returned to Dallas because of a landing gear problem and later went on to St. Louis. This follows recent news of seats coming loose on at least three flights on two American planes.

And junior hockey player Taylor Cox may have been imitating NHL stars with this goal-scoring celebration. There he goes. Ooh. But now he knows that not all rinks are the same. Cox jumped up on the glass and the glass shattered. He was not hurt by the fall and he even continued celebrating.

Less than 12 hours to go until the first presidential debate. The stage is set and the candidates are probably hunkered down right now, working on their debate strategies. They did take a break yesterday, though. President Obama visited the Hoover Dam and Mitt Romney went to a Denver area Chipotle Restaurant.

Joining me now CNN contributors Maria Cardona who leans left and Ana Navarro, who leans right. Both are strategists, thank you ladies for joining us this morning. I found it interesting.

MARIA CARDONA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning Carol.

COSTELLO: I found it interesting, Ana, that the candidates where they went yesterday. Like Mitt Romney went to a Chipotle Restaurant, was there any symbolism in that?

ANA NAVARRO, REPUBLICAN STATEGIST: Oh I don't know. Look, let me give a shout out to Chipotle. I think they have great food. So I think maybe the guy was just hungry.

COSTELLO: Maybe so. Although he did pose with all those middle class workers.

Maria, the Hoover Dam, why?

CARDONA: Oh Carol, I don't know. Maybe President Obama wanted to have an image that he's the one who can actually continue to stop the bleeding in terms of what the middle class is going through. So maybe that's what he was going for.

COSTELLO: He can put his finger in the dike and stop the bleeding.

CARDONA: That's right.

COSTELLO: Right.

NAVARRO: He was -- he was searching for the buried middle class, which was somewhere under the dam.

CARDONA: Buried things to Republican policy. That's exactly right. COSTELLO: Oh I needed a laugh today. Thank you both for making me laugh. Let's talk about Joe -- speaking of laughing let's talk about Joe Biden. He made some comments yesterday about the middle class being buried. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is deadly earnest. How they can justify, how they can justify raising taxes on the middle class that's been buried the last four years. How in lord's name can they justify raising their taxes with these tax cuts?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Of course, Joe Biden went on to clarify. But Ana, Paul Ryan wasted no time seizing on those comments. Good strategy?

NAVARRO: Look, you know, I love Joe Biden. I don't know how every Republican in America doesn't love Joe Biden. He is a great guy. He's fun. He is the gift that keeps on giving. I miss Joe Biden. We hadn't heard a gaffe from good old Joe in about two or three weeks. It really had been a long time.

You know this is what the campaigns are like today in 2012, unfortunately. We look for gaffes on each other and we try to make them real big. I think when Joe starts getting earnest, when he starts getting righteous, when he starts talking about God, watch out, because a zinger is coming out.

COSTELLO: Well, speaking of zingers, you know the debate is supposedly is going to be all about zingers. And you know I can see Mitt Romney taking that line -- I would. Maria?

CARDONA: Well the problem with that, though, Carol, is that if you know Joe Biden and what he has done in his career, he has actually been one of the strongest spokespersons for the middle class and for working Americans. And if you look at what he said, if you look at it in context, he clearly is talking about how the middle class has been buried due to the prior eight years of failed Republican policies that, by the way, President Obama and Joe Biden continue to underscore.

And this is exactly why Paul Ryan wants to focus on these comments as opposed to their own policies. Because their own policies, Mitt Romney's and Paul Ryan's, would continue to bury the middle class the way the prior eight years had because they'll be the same exact policies.

COSTELLO: See how long that took to explain, though? That's like a Democrat to me. Republicans are so succinct.

(CROSSTALK)

NAVARRO: Let me give you some straight talk. In today's politics, nobody looks at anything in context. You look at sound bites. And so, you know, very good politicians have to learn, people running for office have to learn how to speak in a way that they don't provide ammunition that can then be used against them.

And you know, this is the type of thing that in a -- in a 30-second ad could be very effective.

COSTELLO: Ok let's --

CARDONA: And that's exactly right. And that's why the Republicans have been so hurt by the 47 percent that Romney talks about -- that underscores what he's all about.

COSTELLO: Touche.

We have to talk about our lady parts now.

NAVARRO: Ok.

COSTELLO: This story --

CARDONA: Oh yes.

COSTELLO: Yes.

COSTELLO: This story is number one on CNN.com. The Obama campaign posted an eCard referencing lady parts. "Vote like your lady parts depend on it." This thing went viral. Some people think that's so crass, it has been taken down since. Maria, your thoughts.

CARDONA: Look, my understanding is that this was an outside video that made it on to the Tumblr feed. And the process that they use to -- to essentially take these things down didn't work. As soon as they caught it, they took it down.

But look, lighten up. A while ago on CNN.com I wrote an op-ed piece about how the Republicans, with all of their issues focusing on women's health, would do well to stay away from Pandora and especially her box. So come on.

COSTELLO: Yes. Ana, lighten up, get a sense of humor.

NAVARRO: Listen, nobody has accused me of not having one, but one of the things they accuse most Republicans of is, you know, being somewhere in the last century. And I would tell you that this is what that card reflects. I haven't heard -- you know, it took me a while to understand what lady parts were because I haven't heard that term in anything but old time black and white movies.

COSTELLO: Oh, Ana --

(CROSSTALK)

CARDONA: And that's why they took it down.

COSTELLO: -- Maria, Maria talk to Ana. Ok Maria Cardona, Ana Navarro, thank you so much.

CARDONA: Thanks so much. COSTELLO: It's fun as always.

NAVARRO: Thanks As always.

That's not what we call them in Nicaragua, Carol.

CARDONA: Nor Colombia.

COSTELLO: I can't talk about lady parts any longer. It is too embarrassing.

Today's "Talk Back" question. We know what you wouldn't ask the candidates in tonight's debate? But what would you ask. Your responses next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: "Talk Back" question today, what would you ask the candidates in tonight's debate?

This from Daniel. "How are you making sure I can get the college education I need without being in debt for the rest of my life?"

This from Hadeyai. "How do you think you can stop the gridlock in Congress."

This from Christy, "Mr. Romney, please elaborate when you speak of the 47 percent. Who exactly are you talking about? Inquiring minds want to know."

This from Steve, "Mr. President, you said you would have the deficit and have a plan to pay down our debt within your first term and you haven't done so. So why should we trust you to keep that promise in your second term?"

And this from Joe, "To both: when will either of you stop worrying about your parties and start worrying more about our nation?"

Facebook.com/carolcnn. Keep the conversation going.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Today is the last day of baseball's regular season. We know all the playoff teams, but not all the division winners. The Oakland A's and the Texas Rangers play today to decide the AL West champs. The A's beat Texas 3-1 last night to pull into a tie for the top of the division. Oakland was 13 games back of Texas on June 30th. The A's have already clinched a wild card spot.

The Baltimore Orioles are also assured of a wild card game, but they want more. Chris Davis hit a home run. His sixth straight game. And the O's held on to beat Tampa Bay 1-0. Baltimore stays one back of the New York Yankees in the American League East. That's because the Yankees beat Boston 4-3 in 12 innings. Raul Ibanez had the game winning hit after tying it with a homer in the bottom of the ninth. If the Yankees win or the Orioles lose tonight, New York captures the AL East. But if the O's win and the game (inaudible) there will be a one-game playoff to decide the division winner. Got that?

That's a look at sports.

The next hour of CNN NEWSROOM starts right now.

Happening right now, 11 hours and counting until President Obama and Mitt Romney meet here for first presidential debate. It will actually only be the fourth time the two men have met face to face. This debate could be a game-changer.