Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Obama, Romney on the Attack in Second Debate; Debate Watchers: Obama Attacked More; How Romney Differs from G.W. Bush; Candidates Spar in Fiery Debate; Zimmerman Trial Date Set for June; Second Girl Shot by Taliban Speaks Out; Undecideds Take Center Stage; Debate Night in America; Nike Dumps Lance Armstrong; Reviewing Their Body Language

Aired October 17, 2012 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Round two in the bag, in your face and personal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I don't think anyone really believes that you're a person who is going to be pushing for oil and gas and coal. You'll get your chance in a moment. I'm still speaking.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: If you're asking me a question --

ROMNEY: That wasn't a question. That was a statement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: But did it sway undecided voters. Good morning to you. I'm Carol Costello. It is safe to say no one could have predicted how the second presidential debate would have turned out.

Heated direct exchange is coming from both candidates in a forum not typical for this type of aggression. The most memorable came early on in a discussion over oil.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: In the last four years, you cut permits and licenses on federal land and federal waters in half.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Not true, Governor Romney.

ROMNEY: How much did you cut them by then?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Not true.

ROMNEY: How much did you cut them by then?

PRESIDENT OBAMA: No, Governor, we have -- here's what we did.

ROMNEY: I had a question and the question was how much did you cut them by? PRESIDENT OBAMA: You want me to answer, I'm happy to answer the question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: And eventually he did. Chief White House correspondent Jessica Yellin joins us now from Hofstra University, the scene of last night's debate. Jessica, this was a town hall forum. They were supposed to connect warmly with the audience. I really didn't see any of that.

JESSICA YELLIN, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: You don't think they were very focused on one another than the audience a little bit there. I'm with you on that, Carol.

That exchange was memorable because it set the tone for the rest of the debate. This was in your face, feisty, combative night. Try to even remember what that question they were answering was about is the Department of Energy responsible for helping bring down gas prices.

They weren't even talking about gas prices. It almost seemed as though Governor Romney came in with the intention because that was very early at the very top of the debate.

Governor Romney seemed to come in with an intention of trying to get very aggressive, maybe even trying to rattle the president and the president held his own and so you saw right from the top that they were going to go mano-o-mano and it continued that way pretty consistently throughout the night -- Carol.

COSTELLO: I know I was expecting a tackle at any moment. Another exchange was over the economy. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROMNEY: We have fewer people working today than we had when the president took office. The unemployment rate was 7.8 percent when he took office and it's 7.8 percent now. If you calculate that taking into account people who dropped out of the workforce, it would be 10.7 percent.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Governor Romney said he has a five-point plan. Governor Romney has a one-point plan. He has a one-point plan and that plan is to make sure that folks at the top sector play by a different set of rules.

That's been his philosophy in the private sector. That's been his philosophy as governor. That's been his philosophy as a presidential candidate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK, so they attacked one another's economic plan, but did they get into specifics enough to satisfy voters who were undecided?

YELLIN: No, they did not get into very many specifics at all. But they did at least very extensively clarify how they're different and I don't expect either man to reveal more specifics about what they would do in a second term at this late stage.

Three weeks to go, they're not going to do something they haven't already done. But what we did see between them that was a perfect exchange to make clear Governor Romney clearly laid out the case he's been trying to make all election long, which is that the president has not been successful in fixing our economic problems or getting us where we need to go so bring me in to fix it.

That was his case. And then the president rebutted, played the perfect sound bite to show it saying, no, the governor is not being honest about his vision. That was a clear desolation of both of their viewpoints -- Carol.

COSTELLO: OK, here's the most heated exchange. It took about an hour for both men to get to the topic of Libya. It did come up and it did not disappoint.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT OBAMA: The day after the attack, Governor, I stood in the Rose Garden and I told the American people and the world that we are going to find out exactly what happened and that this was an act of terror.

ROMNEY: I want to make sure we get that for the record because it took the president 14 days before he called the attack in Benghazi an act of terror.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Get the transcript.

CANDY CROWLEY, MODERATOR: He did in fact, sir. So --

PRESIDENT OBAMA: Can you say that a little louder, Candy?

CROWLEY: He did call it an act of terror. It did as well take two weeks or so for the whole idea of there being a riot out there about this tape to come out. You're correct about that.

ROMNEY: The administration indicated that this was a reaction to a video and was a spontaneous reaction.

CROWLEY: It did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK, so conservatives are saying, Candy Crowley set Romney up and took him down. More liberal analysts say Obama's response to Mr. Romney took the issue of Libya right off the table. What do you think?

YELLIN: Both are flat out wrong. First of all, Candy Crowley is a political expert and she knows the speech, what the president said in the Rose Garden. She had no idea that was going to come up. When she's seeing two people argue about it and knows for a fact he used the phrase "act of terror," she could solve it right there. That's the role of the moderator.

Sometimes you have to just be the referee. She tried to dispense with that issue and move on to the rest of the debate. The fact that he used the phrase "act of terror" does not put to bed this question why did it take so long for the administration to say no, there was no protest outside and to clarify what really happened.

And so that will continue as an issue and in fact our next debate is about foreign policy and I think you will hear it come up there -- Carol.

COSTELLO: I think you're right. Jessica Yellin, thanks so much. Then there was that interesting question about how Governor Romney is different from George W. Bush.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Governor Romney, I am an undecided voter because I'm disappointed with the lack of progress I've seen in the last four years.

However, I do attribute much of America's economic and international problems to the failings and missteps of the Bush administration.

Since both you and President Bush are Republicans, I fear a return to the policies of those years should you win this election. What is the biggest difference between you and George W. Bush? And how do you differentiate yourself from George W. Bush?

ROMNEY: President Bush and I are different people and these are different times and that's why my five-point plan is so different than what he would have done. I'll crack down on China. President Bush didn't.

I'm going to get us to a balanced budget, President Bush didn't. President Obama was right. He said that that was outrageous to have deficits as high as half a trillion dollars under the Bush years, he was right. But then he put in place deficits twice that size for every one of his four years.

PRESIDENT OBAMA: There are some things where Governor Romney is different from George Bush. George Bush didn't propose turning Medicare into a voucher. George Bush embraced comprehensive immigration reform, he didn't call for self-deportation.

George Bush never suggested that we eliminate funding for Planned Parenthood. So there are differences between Governor Romney and George Bush, but they're not on economic policy. In some ways he's gone to a more extreme place when it comes to social policy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: OK. So the undecided voter who asked that question is Susan Katz. She joins me now from Hofstra University. Welcome, Susan.

SUSAN KATZ, VOTED FOR OBAMA IN 2008: Hi. Thank you for having me, Carol.

COSTELLO: I can't wait to hear what you have to say. So you asked a question, the candidates answered. What did you think of their answers to your question?

KATZ: Well, I was disappointed that the governor chose to first rebut what the president had been saying prior to what my question had been to him. That seems to be his style. I found that disappointing.

I thought that the governor did a good job of laying out some ways that he would function differently than President Bush had and basically throughout the night found that disconcerting that the governor need to control the debate.

That was a problem for me and that was evident in the way he chose to first respond to my question.

COSTELLO: And when you say he tried to control the debate, did that kind of turn you off and kind of sway you toward one candidate or the other?

KATZ: Yes, it did. I have tremendous respect for the governor. There's no question that he is a very bright man and a very capable businessman and I've always thought that we needed a businessman to run the country.

But I think that last night, I saw that possibly someone who has been running a business or many businesses for many years is used to having things go his way.

And I didn't see that -- I was seeing this for a while, but last night I really felt that Governor Romney was not as good a listener as he was as wanting to get his way. So that was a big influence on my thought process.

COSTELLO: Interesting. The Libya question that provoked the most heated exchange. There was applause in the audience, something that was barred according to the rules. Who was applauding?

KATZ: I'm having trouble hearing you. I know what happened. Did this fall out? One second. I'm so sorry.

COSTELLO: She can't hear me. I would say take your time, but she can't hear me. There you go.

KATZ: That's better. I'm so sorry.

COSTELLO: No worry. It happens all the time, Susan, don't worry.

KATZ: OK, you're putting me at ease.

COSTELLO: Good, I'm glad. At one point, there was applause in the audience, something that was against the rules. Who was applauding? KATZ: Well, it was hard -- we couldn't turn around and see the audience, but I think you're referring to possibly when the president appreciated Candy referring to when he supposedly said in the Rose Garden something about that it was an act of terrorism. Is that what you're referring to?

COSTELLO: Yes.

KATZ: Who was applauding? Mrs. Obama was applauding. If I remember correctly, she applauded at one point. I turned her around and saw her applauding. There was no applause amongst our circle of press as they call us. We weren't allowed to do that.

COSTELLO: I understand. It's interesting you say the first lady was applauding. That's going around the blogs now. Susan, thank you so much. We appreciate you being -- did you decide who to vote for after all is said and done?

KATZ: Yes, I did. I did. I guess, you want that answer, President Obama. I found him to be -- first of all, let me put it this way. I think he has matured tremendously as the result of the first four years.

There's no question that we expected more from him. I voted for him the first time. I had great hopes for him. I was disappointed. When I got the phone call from the Gallup poll, I was truly, truly undecided.

Let me put this way. When I had to work up four questions, I wanted to ask questions that would give me an insight into each man's character and the kind of leader he was because the question about specifics were not necessarily going to make up my mind because things change.

And you don't always know what kind of cooperation a president is going to get from the Congress. So I saw in President Obama someone who has ripened with time who deserves another four years to see his vision through. And I saw someone who I thought was very earnest who listened as well as speaks.

COSTELLO: Susan Katz, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with us this morning. We appreciate it.

We'll have more coverage of this fiery debate over the next hour. I'll be talking with working middle-class people to see what they thought about the candidates' performance. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: It is the morning after the second presidential debate and candidates are already back on the campaign trail. President Obama will be campaigning in Iowa and in Ohio today.

Mitt Romney is in Virginia with a rally in Chesapeake. But the people in both campaigns were hard at work all through the night taking points from the debate and rolling them into their new messages. The Obama camp picked up on Romney's binder full of women comment with this picture and they have a couple of ads out this morning using footage from the debate.

The Romney campaign was working hard too taking comments President Obama made about, quote, "some jobs we won't get those jobs back" and using those words against him.

Joining me now is former communication director for Pennsylvania Governor Ed Rendell, Democratic strategist, Penny Lee and from the right, former chairman of the South Carolina Republican Party, Katon Dawson.

Welcome, Penny and Katon. Good morning. OK, so let's start with you, Penny and this binder full of women comment because this seemed to have resonated especially in the Twitter verse.

And Mitt Romney was trying to address the equal pay issue and he said that when he was governor of Massachusetts, he went to women's group and got binders full of women that he could hire. Will this really stick? He just probably put it inelegantly, shall we say?

PENNY LEE, PRESIDENT, VENN STRATEGIES, LLC: We've been having a lot of these inelegant statements in his campaign. I think all of us you'll probably hear now it was taken out of context. But I think to the larger point was it really showed the difference in the contrast with how they are approaching the women's vote.

You heard the president speak about and have more of an empathetic quality toward his answer, which was talking about being raised by a single mom, understanding what it is to be a bread winner, what it means to go out and have the security of health care to the on for yourself, but for your parents and children as well.

Being able to make those choices in your health care that you would like to have contraceptive care and other care and he had that to a stark contrast where Mitt Romney really went down to his example of being empathetic of women was he had a binder full of resumes.

That really did not resonate well. Stylistically you saw a stark contrast as you heard from Susan Katz who was in the room asking that question, she was very turned off by the aggressiveness of Governor Romney.

That is something I've seen a lot in e-mails received back to me is that a lot of women were turned off stylistically by his over aggressiveness. That is something you're going to hear again as well.

COSTELLO: Although I will say in fairness she voted for President Obama at first time and maybe she was leaning that way anyway. What do you think?

KATON DAWSON, FORMER CHAIRMAN, SOUTH CAROLINA REPUBLICAN PARTY: Well, I think what we saw last night was a better performance from the president and of course, the bar wasn't that hard to move from the first debate. I think what Governor Romney did last night was accent way that there was a mathematical arithmetic problem. Gas prices have risen 100 percent since the president took office. College tuition has gone up 25 percent.

We have 47 million people on food stamps and 23 million people out of work. That's a message that works, those are facts that are true and I do agree with Penny certainly that the race is going to get spirited and it was testy last night and the expectations were different.

The president had a good night, but so did Mitt Romney. So this race is reset down to the ground games, what's going to be the future sitting in Ohio, certainly Ohio, North Carolina, Virginia, Florida and this race is coming down to the wire.

COSTELLO: Well, Penny, you talk about aggressiveness. Many Democrats out there say they want the president to be much more aggressive and go on the attack yet they don't seem to like the same thing from Governor Romney. What's up with that?

LEE: Well, I think there is that delicate balance that you have to hit, which is being forceful without being overaggressive. I think the president actually struck the right tone. It was the tone that a lot of Democrats would have liked to have seen two weeks ago.

I think he was forceful, commanding in his answer and he did not attack the moderator. People felt Mitt Romney was rude and more abrupt in actually challenging not only Candy but also the president.

COSTELLO: And the question of Libya, Katon, a lot of people are saying Mitt Romney bungled the Libya question and the issue off the table for the Democrats. What do you say?

DAWSON: I don't think the issue is going to be off the table. I think U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham is on to something. Certainly the president got high marks for taking responsibility that everybody worked for him and that's appreciated, but still there's a lot more to this story.

They did a good job deflecting a lot of the facts last night the president was charming, Mitt Romney was articulate. But this race right now is, and I think Penny will agree, this race is no longer about the base.

If it was about the base, the bases are coming, they're moving. The president had a base problem from the last election of energizing. It's about that small sliver in the middle, what the turnout models are and I would contend right now both ground games are working.

I think the president would have collapsed more in the numbers without his early investment in the ground game. My estimate is they have around 6,000 people working. The governor has about the same working that small sliver last night.

CNN was the real winner last night. It was a professional debate. I commend Candy Crowley from doing tremendous job. This information matters and these voters are watching as we see when we interview them.

COSTELLO: Amen. Thank you so much, Penny Lee and Katon Dawson for joining us this morning.

Nike dumps Lance Armstrong following that highly damaging report on doping and now Armstrong is responding.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: We're coming up on 30 minutes past the hour. Checking top stories now, George Zimmermann will go on trial next year starting June 10th. He's accused of second degree murder in the death of Trayvon Martin.

This morning Zimmerman's attorneys went before a newly appointed judge to work out the dates. Zimmerman maintains he shot Trayvon Martin in self defense.

We've been following the story of Malala, the Pakistani school girl shot by the Taliban, and now getting medical treatment at a British hospital.

But she wasn't the only one hit in the assassination attempt. CNN's Reza Sayah got an exclusive interview with Malala's classmate from her hospital bed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you regret standing up against the Taliban now that you've been hurt?

KAINAT AHMED, WOUNDED IN THE ATTACK ON MALALA YOUSUFZAI (through translator): No, sir, I don't regret it. God willing, I will continue my education.

SAYAH: What do you want the world to know?

AHMED (through translator): Girls education here is more important than boys because boys can have any job they want and girls cannot. I want to tell all the girls to continue their mission to get an education.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Wow. The name of the girls' school is being changed to Malala Public High School.

No injuries or major damage reported after a 4.0 earthquake struck near Hollis Center, Maine. It was felt across much of New England like in this meeting room. You can see the camera shake a little bit.

And then the woman speaking pauses and looks around thinking, yes, what was that? Some people say their homes shook for nearly four seconds. One college student telling the "Boston Globe" it was nothing like in the movies. No books falling or anything, just some shaking going on. We've heard what the pundits had to say. Now you will hear from voters. Our panel dissects last night's debate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Undecided, uncommitted, Independent, whatever you want to call them, they are the people at the top of the Romney and Obama campaign's wish list. And last night they took center stage along with the men who want their vote.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, I voted for you in 2008. What have you done or accomplished to earn my vote in 2012?

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Four years ago I told the American people and I told you I would cut taxes for middle class families. I said that we would put in place health care reform to make sure that insurance companies can't jerk you around and if you don't have health insurance, then you'd have a chance to get affordable insurance. And I have.

I committed that I would rein in the excesses of Wall Street and we passed the toughest Wall Street reforms since the 1930s. All those things will make a difference. So the point is the commitments I've made I've kept.

And those that I haven't been able to keep, it's not for lack of trying and we're going to get it done in a second term.

MITT ROMNEY (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I think you know better. I think you know that these last four years haven't been so good as the President just described and that you don't feel like you're confident that the next four years are going to be much better either. I can tell you that if you elect President Obama, you know what you're going to get. You're going to get a repeat of the last four years. We just can't afford four more years like the last four years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Joining me now are members of our middle class "Talk Back": Moira Bindner, a Democrat; Nana Boone, a Democrat who say she is open to both parties; and Skip Becker, a registered Republican who says he's still making up his mind. So two of you are undecided.

So Skip, I want to start with you. Did the debate change your mind at all?

SKIP BECKER, REGISTERED REPUBLICAN: No, not specifically, I -- no, the short answer is no. I -- I found that there were some directions that I could lean more favorably toward but I'm still -- it's still kind of a tossup with me. I have the time to -- to chew on this a little bit more so I'm not decided yet.

COSTELLO: So what about Governor Romney? Is like -- what is it about him that you're suspicious of? BECKER: Well, one of the things that I -- I got a sense of last night was they were both in the ring again and this time both of them were intent on duking at the other as it were. I -- I -- he made a comment when they were talking about immigration that I thought was a little snarky about the President's first -- first term of office, he would have something -- he would move the notion of immigration forward and -- and have legislation accordingly.

That kind of comment where sort of back -- back of him, back of the President's commentary left me a little cold. That and the -- and the reams of or "binders of women". I -- I don't like that kind of approach coming from someone who wants to be our president

COSTELLO: So it was like inappropriate language. "Binders of women" I mean, that's -- that the Twitter verse on fire. Nana when you heard that did you -- I mean, did that resonate with you one way or the other?

NANA BOONE, WORKING MOTHER OF TWO: You know Carol, I'm seeing to see that Mitt Romney just doesn't necessarily have the gift of gab always and I try not to let that distract me but he makes these comments that really just set him apart from the rest of America. And it's -- it's a bit exhaustive trying to give him the benefit of the doubt all the time. So that comment, it -- I don't think it was much appreciated.

COSTELLO: Ok so Moira, Democrats are saying, wow, President Obama is back, it was like a one-two punch. He was lively, he went on the attack. Did that make you feel better about the President, though?

MOIRA BINDNER, BUSINESS & COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT DIRECTOR: There were times when I felt better and there were times when I was just exhausted of this campaign and of this election.

But I thought that -- I thought that the President was very engaged last night. I thought he did a great job. I thought he had better answers on many of the questions, especially on the women's -- the equity issue on jobs and that it's not just a -- just a women's equity issue, it's an issue of families.

I mean the number of us that are out there as bread winners is staggering. And if we're only getting 72 cents on the dollar, I think that you're really hurting families. And I thought that his answer on that question was phenomenal.

COSTELLO: Skip on -- on the subject of the economy, did you get any more specifics from either candidate as to how they're going to like solve the deficit problem or the unemployment problem, et cetera, et cetera?

BECKER: No. I think that last night's debate was painfully short on specifics. I heard Governor Romney repeatedly say things like "I know how to do that. I know how to get that done. I know this." I heard that a lot but I didn't hear what the how was.

And because I think they were so preoccupied with re-establishing positions, that is physical and -- and -- and political positions that the content of what they had to say was more combative, I think, than productive.

We got to see -- we got to see a nice -- we got to see a nice battle but I don't think we got a lot of substance.

COSTELLO: A nice slugfest.

Well Nana, I ask you that question, too, because a lot of people say President Obama really hasn't told us what he'd do different in his next term. Did you get any of that out of him?

BOONE: Not so much, you know. I have to say that I did think he gave or provided better answers across the board. There were a couple of things that Mitt Romney said that where I liked his answers but again to Skip's point I have to agree. You know Romney talked a lot about "I know how to do this, I've done this in business, I've done it as the Governor of the Massachusetts." And I mean, at the end of the day we're not electing a President of Massachusetts, we're looking for President of the United States. So he needs to be larger scale, not just what can you do in a small state.

And as far as Obama, I think what he did last night was answered to a lot of the criticism for what he has not done over the past four years. I don't know that he necessarily gave a lot of specifics on what he plans to do but it does seem to me that he has a better head on his shoulders in terms of what he wants to continue and how he's hoping that things will start to continue moving in the right direction rather.

COSTELLO: And Moira, you've been through it all, you've been through periods of unemployment, you have an underwater mortgage. So when you take into totality of what each candidate said about how they can fix the economy, did any of it make you say, oh, my gosh, I got to vote for this man because he's going to make my life better?

BINDNER: No. What I heard last night was the President explaining, as Nana said, his record and what he has done. He came into office with a lot of challenges and he has addressed a lot of things.

And the Republican Party saying right now that you know there's all these unemployment -- there's 23 million unemployed people and we need to get jobs for everybody. Where have they been? You know, it's like too little too late, guys. You know now they care about the poor and the vulnerable? I don't buy it. I don't buy it one bit.

COSTELLO: Ok. So well, we only have a couple of more days to go, a couple of weeks I should say and then it will all be over. Nana Boone, Moira Bindner -- that's right 20 days -- Skip -- Skip Becker thank you so much for sharing your thought with us this morning.

BOONE: Thanks Carol.

BINDNER: Thanks Carol.

BECKER: You're welcome.

COSTELLO: You're welcome. If you missed any of the debate you can see it in its entirety starting at noon Eastern right here on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: Two big aftershocks today surrounding Lance Armstrong. Nike says it's dropping its contract with the sullied cyclist. In other words, "You're fired."

In a statement Nike says it's quote, "Due to the seemingly insurmountable evidence that Lance Armstrong participated in doping and misled Nike for more than a decade." (inaudible) released last week by the U.S. Anti-Doping agency.

Also today, Armstrong announced he will step down as Chairman of the Livestrong Cancer Charity he founded 15 years ago. He said he wants to spare the foundation any negative effects tied to his cycling career controversy.

So let's talk with Bill Strickland, editor-at-large of "Bicycling" magazine and the author of "Tour de Lance". Welcome.

BILL STRICKLAND, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, BICYCLING MAGAZINE: Hi Carol.

COSTELLO: So I guess Armstrong stepping down from Livestrong kind of shocks me more than the Nike thing. How about you?

STRICKLAND: Well, I think they're related. Nike has a -- in 2010 signed a five-year contract with Livestrong to give them about $7.5 million a year in profits. They have 100 products made with Livestrong. And you know, I think it was just part of the deal to keep the foundation safe and as secure from this controversy as possible that they wanted Armstrong to step down.

COSTELLO: By all accounts, I mean, Lance Armstrong cares very deeply about his Livestrong organization. I mean this has got to be killing him.

STRICKLAND: Well, I think it does hurt him personally very much, but I think in my talks with him, it's very important to him and I think he would value the integrity of the institution over his involvement with it. He's still going to be on the board, which I think is important to note. He's just no longer the chairman.

COSTELLO: To some people it might seem an admission of guilt.

STRICKLAND: Well, it sure -- I mean it sure looks like -- you know it sure looks like that. He would -- he would say, I believe, that this is just to -- and he did say in a statement just to keep any negative effects from the controversy away from Livestrong.

COSTELLO: So what do you predict will happen? I mean, he's still -- he's still asserting that he's innocent of all of these charges but all of these people are coming out and saying he's guilty as sin. I mean, in the end what do you expect might happen?

STRICKLAND: Well, this -- this is where it gets interesting. You know he -- he's still sponsored by Track. He has a few small nutrition sponsors, Honey Stinger is one, FRS, still a contract with RadioShack. We'll see where these go. We've yet to hear about the decision about the Yellow Jerseys, if those will officially be stripped by the tour organization and there's the possibility of criminal charges being reopened against him.

COSTELLO: Oh yes so it's not over, not by a long shot.

Bill Strickland editor-at-large at "Bicycling" magazine, thank you so much for joining us this morning.

STRICKLAND: Thank you.

COSTELLO: If actions speak louder than words, then it looked like both candidates were practically screaming at one another. We'll talk body language when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: 47 minutes past the hour. Checking our top stories now, a federal appeals court throws out the conviction of Osama bin Laden's former driver. Salim Hamdan was found guilty in 2008 of supporting terrorism but the appeals court said that was not a crime at that time.

Caught on cameras, an assistant youth football coach in Florida faces battery charges for punching a referee. No kidding. The ref had given 43-year-old Deon Robinson an unsportsman like conduct penalty. Robinson's fellow coaches are standing by his side and say the referee was in the wrong.

In money news, hot holiday deals may be easier to find. Target says it will match online prices from Amazon, Best Buy and Toys 'R' Us. Big box stores are trying to bring in more sales instead of watching customers look at products in stores and then buy them online.

And it's a setback for the defending American's Cup's champ. Team Oracle's new racing catamaran capsized in San Francisco Bay just as it was about to turn away from the win. . No one was hurt but the boat was damaged.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: The second presidential debate wasn't very presidential at times but it sure was entertaining. The follow-up questions seemed to take on a life of their own with both men trying to get in the last word with sneers and interruptions. They even prowled the stage like lions trying to dominate the space.

Emory University debate director, Ed Lee is in Atlanta. He's here with us again today. Ed, welcome.

ED LEE, DEBATE DIRECTOR, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Thank you for having me again.

COSTELLO: We're glad you're here. So talked to two women voters who said the whole debate thing made them extremely uncomfortable. One woman voter said it made her exhausted. The other woman said it just made her uncomfortable with the aggressiveness of it all. What do you think?

LEE: I think that both candidates ultimately took on a form of the debate where they assumed that the audience was taking a tabulation of all of the points that they were making and assumed that each point was one in which they would score something and that at the end of the day the audience would come to a conclusion about who was the victor.

In fact, that is not the way in which we come to be persuaded. That is not the way persuasion happens. It's, in fact, the moments of the debate and the responses that the candidates have to the moment that ultimately will determine whether or not they were an effective communicator.

COSTELLO: Well, it was interesting. This was a town hall forum with actual voters, undecided voters asking the questions. And at times the two men said the voter's name but then they seemed to ignore them altogether.

LEE: Absolutely. I think that part of the problem is that they took on the persona of being the fact checker and they also were quibbling over times and it's not what the audience is interested in. Ultimately, the audience is interested in wanting to figure out whether or not you're going to be presidential. Whether or not you're the candidate that can come across in a way that takes cares of the country's business and does so in a way that is respectable and representative of the country as a whole.

And that is something that I think that each of the candidates missed out on opportunities on doing at various points in times during the debate.

COSTELLO: Ok. So you talk about being respectful. There was a lot of pointing at one another going on. Is that really a great thing to do when you're trying to, you know, carry on a respectful debate?

Lee: It's probably not but it ultimately in most circumstances -- it ultimately depends upon what the audience expects.

At one particular juncture that you had lots of media coverage on was the Benghazi exchange where the President was resolute in his demand that he was the commander in chief and he had an understanding of what was going on and that the audience at that particular time was looking for a response in which the President was being decisive and being the commander in chief.

And he turned to Governor Romney and said that is not what my administration would do. That is not the way in which we go about doing our business. And in that moment in that particular setting and time, that was what the audience was looking for. And you can tell that by the audience applauding when the moderator Candy Crowley said, "President, you are in fact correct on this issue of terrorism."

So it does depend on the moment and it does depend about what's being discussed.

COSTELLO: Ok. Let's talk about the moderator for just a bit because both men, but especially Mitt Romney, interrupted Candy Crowley repeatedly. I'm just wondering, do voters care about that? Does it send the wrong message?

LEE: I think that they do. And I think that it is something that probably Governor Romney wants to be attentive to during the next debate. Ultimately what I think that the public is interested in is whether or not the next president is someone who can be cool and calm, who can deal with foreign policies, who can deal with other representatives and go about negotiating in a way that is respectable and that is representative of the country as a whole and win.

The way in which we're treating the moderator is one that can be considered to be derisive and divisive and at times be perceived as being disrespectful to the office of the President. That is something that could turn off a lot of voters.

And I also think that you've indicated, based upon previous interviews, it's something that is particularly maybe turned off to women in our country who communicate and have a different set of expectations than for aggressive posture, which I think both of the candidates took on.

COSTELLO: Dr. Ed Lee, thank you so much for being with us this morning. We appreciate it.

LEE: Thank you for having me.

COSTELLO: We're back after a break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JENNIFER SHU, AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS: The time to introduce solid food is between four to six months. And that recommendation is because too early, before four months, you run the risk of getting allergies and food can be a choking hazard. It can be helpful to start the new food in the morning. That way a parent can watch a child for reactions during the day.

You might expect reactions such as a skin rash or hives, vomiting or diarrhea if a child has a food that doesn't agree with him. If you wait much longer than seven or eight month, babies get used to a full liquid diet and may have a harder time adjusting to thicker textures. It's just important to wait a few days in between each new food and to make sure that all the food are soft, smooth and small.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Good advice.

I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me today.

CNN NEWSROOM continues right now with Ashleigh Banfield.