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Mass Shooting at Wisconsin Spa; McGovern Called "Gigantic Figure"; Obama, Romney Debate on Foreign Policy; First Native American Saint; Why Is Florida So Important in the Presidential Election?; Updating the Wisconsin Shooting; Telling the Story of JFK's Brother Robert and His Wife Ethel

Aired October 21, 2012 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello. Thank you for joining us, I'm Martin Savidge in for Fredricka Whitfield.

We have just learned the identity of a man suspect of going on a shooting rampage at the spa in Milwaukee. Police say he is 45-year- old Radcliffe Haughton. He is still on the loose and police have released this photo. They are asking people who may have seen him to call the police.

Now he's accused of shooting at least seven people at a spa near a busy mall in the city of Brookfield. That's to west of the city of Milwaukee and police say that the shooting is possibly related to a domestic dispute.

Hospital officials tell us that the victims suffered nonlife- threatening injuries and we are expecting a news conference underway near Milwaukee soon.

Joining us now is HLN law enforcement analyst Mike Brooks.

Mike, we know that this is still considered, you know, an active investigation.

MIKE BROOKS, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Right.

SAVIDGE: The suspect is still on the loose. What else do we know?

BROOKS: You know, the last time we spoke I said that the law enforcement today, they thought they knew who it was. This is the subject who they thought was involved in this early on from the beginning, Marty. They are still there at the scene. They have expanded the perimeter, if you will, around this salon and spa. They just down the Brookfield Square Mall right across which is -- which is a large mall. They shut that down right from the very beginning, did not allow any people to leave.

Anybody who is -- who is coming in, they shut that down. And I said they increased the perimeter just out of an abundance of caution. They don't believe that the suspect is still there on the scene. As you said, he's on the loose. They're looking for him. They also have a vehicle description, a Mazda Protege. They know his tag number. They know where he lives. I haven't been able to confirm it, but as a former investigator, if I know where he lives, I'm going to be over there or I'll prepare a search warrant to go and find out what led up to this. We think it was a domestic situation, someone he might have been in an ongoing divorce, may have worked there at the spa, his estranged wife.

But we're trying to confirm all that information. But it looks like it was -- you know, if you will an isolated incident that somebody was there, targeted at that particular business. It looked like it was a domestic situation.

SAVIDGE: There's a huge response of emergency equipment and personnel. Are the feds involved in this?

BROOKS: Yes. You've got both the FBI and the Bureau of Tobacco, Fire and Explosives there, assisting Waukesha County Sheriff's Office, the Brookfield Police. They are also checking out what they thought could have been an improvised explosive devices but maybe propane based that was on the side of the building. They asked for Milwaukee bomb squad. The city of Milwaukee bomb squad had come to check that out. But again, they're checking everything out in abundance of caution just to see if there are might be -- could be related to this because when you have a scene like this, you know, it's just -- you don't know what you have until you are able to clear the whole area, so that's what they're doing.

But right now it looks like they did transport s seven people to the hospital. Four we're hearing -- are not life threatening injury. We don't know the condition of the other three, but right now some of the -- it's just the original seven that we heard early on in the situation that were transported to a local hospital.

SAVIDGE: All right. We'll continue to follow it with your help. Thanks, Brooks.

BROOKS: Thank you, Marty.

SAVIDGE: Now to the loss of a liberal standard bearer. George McGovern, the Democratic national presidential candidate in 1979 and a three-term senator has died. He was 90.

McGovern perhaps best known for his opposition to the Vietnam War, but he also was a bomber pilot in World War II. A decorated one at that. And more recently he led the effort to transform the way we choose presidential candidates.

McGovern's family issues a statement earlier today and it reads, in part, "We are blessed to know that our father lived a long, successful and productive live, advocating for the hungry, being a progressive voice for millions and fighting for peace. He continued giving speeches writing and advising all the way up to and past his 90th birthday, which he celebrated this summer."

And this morning on CNN's "STATE OF THE UNION" big names on the left and on the right shared their memories of the governor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL RICHARDSON (D), FORMER NEW MEXICO GOVERNOR: He was a great statesman. I knew him quite well and I'm very saddened. I think he'll be remembered, obviously, for his stance on the war on Vietnam, for his bomber missions, but also for his contribution on agriculture, on hunger, and then the Democratic Party, he transformed the party, the primary system, getting minorities involved. He was a gigantic figure in a classic good, good guy.

NEWT GINGRICH (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George actually was a very complicated person. He had served as a bomber pilot in World War II. He was not a pacifist, and his argument over Vietnam was about that particular war.

He was a citizen. I remember being with him at the U.S. embassy in Rome for dinner one night and talking about he and Goldwater. I mean he said, one of the nice things about losing badly enough is you don't have lots of regrets about one thing might you have changed and he had a very good sense of humor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: Remembering the life of George McGovern who passed away today at the age of 90.

You can believe we are at a pivotal point in the race for the White House. Tomorrow the two candidates face off for their final debate.

You're looking at the debate hall in Boca Raton, Florida, where Mitt Romney and President Barack Obama will meet on the stage at Lynne University. The debate is to focus on foreign policy.

CNN's political editor Paul Steinhauser is live at the debate site.

And, Paul, how close is this race?

PAUL STEINHAUSER, CNN POLITICAL EDITOR: Martin, it's about as close as you can get. A brand-new poll out today from NBC/"Wall Street Journal" indicates 47 percent of likely voters nationwide are supporting the president, 47 percent are supporting Mitt Romney, the Republican nominee.

You can't get any closer than that, Martin, and we're seeing the same thing in the states as well, at a lot of these key battleground states including here in Florida. We had to pull out the other day here in Florida but also indicates it's basically all knotted up.

You know, that new NBC/"Wall Street Journal" poll, Martin, it's interesting. There's a real gender gap here. Among men, Mitt Romney has a 10-point advantage. Among women the president has an eight- point advantage. We're seeing the president's lead among women kind of deteriorate a little bit. He had a bigger lead among women and Mitt Romney seems to be gaining more support among men.

So a real gender gap here, but, Martin, these polls, these tight polls in the states and nationally, well, they tell me one thing that there's so much at stake tomorrow night behind me here when these two men face off for the final time. Their third and fine debate -- Martin.

SAVIDGE: Yes, of course, the president has, you know, a long litany of accomplishments he can talk about in foreign policy. Mitt Romney hasn't been president yet so he does not.

Is there a way that Mitt Romney can somehow turn the discussion, say, to economics, the real question for this campaign?

STEINHAUSER: Yes, there sure is, you know, I mean, the moderator, Bob Schieffer, will be asking the questions. Take that live picture yet again and you can see inside the debate hall and they're all going to be seated around -- seated around a table and that's going to be interesting, very similar to the vice presidential debate two weeks ago in Kentucky.

But, you know, when they answer their questions, they of course can pivot. We've seen both candidates pivot before. A couple of the flashpoints, I think, you're going to see at this debate, you saw at the last debate on Long Island last week, and that is of course Libya. I think you're going to see both of these candidates really pick up where they left off in fighting over Libya and the attack in Benghazi, on our consulate, and the assassination of our ambassador to Libya.

You're going to hear them continue to talk more about Iran. We heard a little bit at the last debate. Israel, Mideast peace, and of course China. And of course when you're answering about China, that is a big way you can pivot to the economy.

A lot of flashpoints there. And when it comes to foreign policy and international affairs, Martin, most polls indicate the president does have an advantage over Mitt Romney.

Again so much at stake, this is the last debate. No more after this, two weeks to go until election days after this debate -- Martin.

SAVIDGE: Absolutely right. Paul Steinhauser, thanks very much.

And you can watch Monday's final presidential debate live right here on CNN. Our coverage will begin at 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

New details today on that Inglewood, California, shooting where a gunman opened fire on a family of six. Police now believe that the suspect is dead after setting fire to his home. Desmond John Moses is accused of gunning down his next-door neighbor and his family.

A father who tried to shield his kids from the bullets, he's dead, so is his 4-year-old son. Two other children and the man's wife are in critical condition today. The family reportedly evicted Moses from his home after not paying rent for years. Police are now working to identify what they believed are Moses' remains.

In another case, a fungal meningitis being reported today. The CDC now reporting 285 cases of fungal meningitis in 16 states. The death toll is now at 23. The FDA raided the company in Massachusetts that's blamed for causing that deadly outbreak this week. Most patients got sick after being given contaminated steroid injections used for back pain and neck pain.

Now a strategy for hunting terrorists comes under fire. Some are calling it nothing more than trickery. We'll explain.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: When President Obama and Governor Mitt Romney face off for a final time on Monday night, it will be just them, and the moderator on the stage in Boca Raton, Florida. Last time it was a town hall format with the audience asking questions. That was moderated by our own Candy Crowley. I asked her today what we can expect tomorrow.

Candy, they're supposed to talk about foreign policy and in most cases we know that it intensely benefit the incumbent. President Obama can say that he got Osama bin Laden, Moammar Gadhafi is dead, we won the war on Iraq, and he's brought the troops home. So how does Mitt Romney eke out a win with those kinds of topics?

CANDY CROWLEY, ANCHOR, STATE OF THE UNION: I can tell you how they're planning to do this. They sort of see this as a question of leadership and so you will hear a lot about I've got stuff that can lead this country. I think you'll probably hear the phrase leading from behind, which became very famous after it was printed someplace that the U.S. role in Libya, in that NATO -- in the NATO effort was to lead from behind, I think you'll see that.

I think you will hear some muscular talk from the governor, but I don't think you'll hear any kind of over-the-top talk here. I think this is a time that both of them want to say, I've got a steady hand on tiller, I can take the ship of state, and I will be calm in whatever decisions I make.

SAVIDGE: You know, we know it's a foreign policy debate, but the economy is still a number one issue of this entire campaign. If Romney tries to get in, say, on the economy, then the president might want to bring up issues regarding women and such as --

CROWLEY: And then, there you go, you've got a domestic debate. Yes.

SAVIDGE: Right. And how does he do that? How does he bring up equal pay? How does he bring up the issue of abortion because we know that these are issues that are key to women that are going to vote?

CROWLEY: I don't think you're going to see something so blatant as we kind of did in the last debate where you're talking about one thing and suddenly it's something completely different. I think first of all because of the way this is arranged, and it's these two men seated fairly next to each other with just one moderator, I bet you will see a more -- I think you'll see a tense debate, but I don't think you will see quite as confrontational debate, and I don't think you'll see a debate that kind of wanders off course.

SAVIDGE: I know that you had a guest on your program this morning. The "Washington Post's" Dan Balz was sort of talking about these women's issues, let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN BALZ, POLITICAL REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: The poll that shows them essentially tied I think is probably -- I mean everything we know about the structure of how people vote in this country, President Obama should and probably will win the vote of women. The question is by how much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: And this brings it up. It is so crucial that there has to be some way I would expect the president works this in, even though it's foreign policy.

CROWLEY: Sure, but I don't think that you will hear kind of the issues that you're used to hearing when they talk about women, pay equity, abortion, a right to reproductive services, contraception. This will be more of something that does interest women as well as men I would say. But I think you will hear both of them try to make the case that they can keep America safe.

There's nothing really closer to home and hearth than feeling that your family is safe, that you are safe. So I think it will be more about I'm a strong leader, I believe in protecting America. It will it be aimed -- will it be aimed at women voters? Of course. I just don't think it will be so blatant as hey, while we're talking about Syria, let's talk about reproductive rights. I don't think it'll be that easy.

SAVIDGE: It's an awkward turn.

And remember, you can watch Monday's final presidential debate live right here on CNN, our coverage will start at 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

The first Native American was canonized by the Catholic Church today. We'll talk to someone who was inside the ceremony at the Vatican.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Pope Benedict XVI canonized seven Catholic saints in Rome today. Two of them are American women. Marianne Cope was a Catholic sister and a hospital worker in Hawaii who worked with leprosy patients. And then we have Kateri Tekakwitha. She is a Mohawk from New York and she is the first Native American to be designated a saint.

The Vatican says that prayers to Tekakwitha responsible for curing a 6-year-old Native American from Washington state.

John Langler of CNN affiliate KING TV talked to the boy's family as they prepared to head to Rome.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELSA FINKBONNER, MOTHER: OK. So here we go. JOHN LANGLER, KING TV REPORTER: Elsa Finkbonner needs more suitcases.

E. FINKBONNER: A couple more here.

LANGLER: She needs more time.

E. FINKBONNER: I'm having to do all this last-minute shopping.

LANGLER: She does not need a miracle.

E. FINKBONNER: So I got six things done, that was good.

LANGLER: Her greatest miracle has already happened.

E. FINKBONNER: Yes. It was dire.

LANGLER: It was 2006, her son Jake was 5. One day he fell down playing basketball. Sickness found it's way into his face.

E. FINKBONNER: He was airlifted to Children's Hospital and he was fighting for his life at that point.

LANGLER: Jake was fighting a flesh-eating bacteria and losing. Then the family pastor suggested prayer in the name of Blessed Kateri Tekakwitha. When she died in the 1600s, it is said her scarred and disfigured face was made beautiful by God. It is said she helped God do the same thing for Jake.

E. FINKBONNER: Our journey has come full circle.

LANGLER: That miracle is why blessed Kateri will be canonized in Rome, becoming the first North American Native American saint. Jake will give this to the Pope.

E. FINKBONNER: "She is truly a gift from God and I would not be here today if it were not for her intercession. "

LANGLER: Elsa has just one more errand to run, picking up her son. Jake is now 12.

E. FINKBONNER: Jakie.

LANGLER: He's shy, not too keen on interviews, but he realizes what's about to happen is a big deal.

JAKE FINKBONNER, INFECTED BY FLESH-EATING BACTERIA: I'm very darn excited to go. I mean it will be a trip of a lifetime and.

LANGLER: For the family it's about time to honor someone in death and who brought a young boy back to life.

J. FINKBONNER: It'll be a good experience. It'll be great.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SAVIDGE: It's a pretty remarkable story. One of those who has worked hard to promote Kateri Tekakwitha's sainthood is Alma Ransom. She is a Catholic and a Native American as well. And also a former Mohawk chief who took part in today's canonization ceremonies in Rome.

And I asked her when we talked about -- to tell us something about how the ceremony went and here's what she said.

ALMA RANSOM, FORMER CHIEF, ST. REGIS MOHAWK TRIBE: Well, I saw a lot of tears today. People were so happy. You know, to the -- to the extent of people crying because we're remembering our ancestors, grandparents that are not here who loved Kateri like we do. And they could not be here to witness this.

Children were here and very, very old people also came from Akwesasne and Caughnawaga and across the country came here to witness this. It's not only like you don't believe it but we want to be sure that she'll be safe forever. We've waited over 300 years.

SAVIDGE: You have. Let me ask, is there in any way in your mind a conflict between Native American spiritualism and the Catholic faith?

RANSOM: Well, the tradition, the tradition in our culture, like our creator, our creator is your God. As Catholics, he's our God as well. And for Kateri Tekakwitha in her time, she had -- she had a tradition where she knew her creator very well and all the rules that go with it. Loving and respecting the elders. Loving like the earth as in environment, she had all these things in appreciation of all of God's creation.

When she became Catholic, the creator, God, became Jesus, that she loved until she died. And she laid a wonderful example for us to be able to live in both cultures.

SAVIDGE: The ceremony today, the religious part but you also used Native American forms of celebration. Tell me a little bit about that.

RANSOM: We sang and prayed in Mohawk. We still speak the same language, say the same prayers that Kateri Tekakwitha prayed when she was a young woman.

SAVIDGE: It would have been a remarkable scene. As we've mentioned earlier, Marianne Cope was also canonized today. She is the Catholic sister who worked with leprosy patients in Hawaii. The second saint of Hawaii by the way.

Well, today's canonization also probably raised the question of just where do they stand with Pope John II with his canonization. His former beatification ceremony took place May 1st, 2011 and that was an important step in the process.

Church officials are investigating two potential miracles that have been attributed to John Paul II. Both will have to confirmed before the late pope can be canonized.

And you can get more information on the story at CNNbelief blog. Just go to CNN.com/belief. Meanwhile, you could say politics is a lot like real estate. Location, location, location. Next we'll have a closer look at where tomorrow night's debate is happening and why it is such an important place.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: Welcome back to CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Martin Savidge in for Fredricka Whitfield.

Here's a check of the day's top stories. Police in Wisconsin have identified a suspect in the shooting today in a spa in Brookfield, Wisconsin. He is 45-year-old Radcliffe Haughton who I think we're going to show you some images now of. Police have also surrounded apparently what we see as the suspect's home. So that these are the images that we're getting from one of our affiliates as police continue to look for this man. They don't have in custody.

They say that he opened fire inside a spa injuring several people. He is still on the loose and police are investigating that shooting as a possible domestic dispute. We're anticipating that the chief of police in that community is going to hold a news conference. Momentarily we'll continue to monitor and bring it to you when it happens.

Moving on, America has lost a liberal standard bearer, George McGovern. The one-time Democratic presidential candidate and three- term senator. He's dead at the age of 90. He was a World War II veteran, a hero, a staunch opponent of the Vietnam War, and strongly committed to helping the poor.

Chaos in the streets of Beirut. Protesters clash with security forces after the funeral for that country's intelligence chief, a critic of the Syrian regime. Brigadier General Wissam al-Hassan was killed in a car bombing. And on a Friday, demonstrators blame Lebanon's government which is led by the Syrian ally Hezbollah.

Foreign policy will be the main focus of tomorrow night's third and final presidential debate. It will take place in a hotly contested state, that is Florida, where the 29 electoral votes are a must-win for Romney, who is no doubt -- which is why, rather, no doubt both campaigns with their vice presidential candidates stumping for votes.

Joining us now is David Drucker who writes for the "Roll Call" on Capitol Hill.

And, David, it's pretty interesting that the last debate is in Florida. It's a state, of course, that both men won but Mitt Romney really needs it. So will it be so tough for him to reach that magic number of 270 electoral votes you need to win without Florida state?

DAVID DRUCKER, ASSOCIATE POLITICAL EDITOR, ROLL CALL: Well, Florida has, as you mentioned, close to 30 electoral votes and if you look at the map the guaranteed states that Obama gets with big electoral vote counts versus the guaranteed states that Mitt Romney has in his column with high electoral vote counts is larger, the president has New York in his column, Illinois in his column, California, most electoral votes in many states, 55 electoral votes he's got in his column guaranteed.

Mitt Romney has Texas; Mitt Romney has Georgia and not much else in terms of big electoral votes which are why Florida is so important for the Republican candidate, always at least going back to 2000 when we first started to see it as a red state-blue state kind of divide.

SAVIDGE: Let's take a look at another state, and that's Nevada, where unemployment has been above 12 percent at times, but Obama is leading, is this the Latino vote factor that we have heard so much about?

DRUCKER: Well it might be. I don't know if we are going to know for sure until after Election Day. The president's going to win Latinos outside of Florida by a pretty healthy margin, the question is by how much, but the other question we're going to need to answer and we won't know until after Election Day is percentage wise how many Latino showed up to vote. They haven't always shown up in large numbers, the numbers that they have available and it could be that Latinos are boosting him in Nevada if they are, what I mean is it could be, turn out to be crucial to his victory if he wins it.

But the other thing going on in Nevada on the ground, which is unlike a lot of the other battleground states in fact unlike just about any of the battle ground states is the Democrats have managed to register far more people voters in Nevada this cycle then the Republicans. The Republicans state party is dysfunctional, the Romney campaign and people connected to the govern of Nevada OK to set up this sort of shadow party if you will to make up for the state party's dysfunction.

The Democrats had no such problem. The Obama campaign and the state party run by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid is humming on all cylinders, they're doing a great job. And so I still think the presidential race in Nevada is going to be close. But it would answer your question is why a state with such a lousy economy still seems to be favoring the incumbent party.

SAVIDGE: We know tomorrow foreign policy is supposed to be the focus of this debate. And President Obama will probably do well with that that is traditionally the president. But I'm wondering here, what can Mitt Romney do, and is there a way that the foreign policy could actually come back and hurt the president?

DRUCKER: Well. There are a couple of things here, I think the first thing to understand is that we're not in a national security election; we're in an election where people are focused on jobs and the economy. And usually when that's the case, what voters want to see from the challenger is the sense that you can provide the leadership and vision and strength abroad that make people feel comfortable that you're up to the task.

Now why that is, it is because Americas understand that you can't be commander in chief until you're elected. It is why in 1992 when Bill Clinton, at that time a somewhat unknown governor of a very small state was running against a foreign policy juggernaut, the incumbent president Bush, George Walker Bush, Americans were upset about the economy and they said this guy looks like a leader, he looks like he will know what he's doing, therefore we will elect him commander in chief.

Now clearly there were other things that planned that election with Ross Peroe. My point is that I think Romney's task, he cannot out in a sense do the president on foreign policy, in terms of a record, but what he can do is point to some recent flaws as he sees it in the president's record in the Middle East. He can point to the Libyan issue as we reflective of what he will probably say as the president's failed policies in the Middle East and then just point to the leadership aspect and if he does that and presents a sort of an inherent cohesion of his policy, I think that will be enough for him to accomplish his vote.

SAVIDGE: All right. We're pretty much out of time. David Drucker thanks very much. All of us we are going to be watching this debate tomorrow night and I think it will be the third time. So the final fair well, in a measure. Thanks very much.

DRUCKER: Thanks Martin.

SAVIDGE: As I just mentioned, you can watch Monday's final presidential debate live right here on CNN, our coverage will begin at 7:00 p.m. Eastern Time.

We're just looking at a live image that's coming to us from Wisconsin. There is a press conference on the way from the police chief. And now we are getting this information related to this. Three people have been killed that is new information and to this point we knew that seven people have been wounded. But now it is being confirmed by the chief of police in the community that there are at least three people killed. We are going to go to break. When we come back more on that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: And we have just received this update from the shooting that took place outside of Milwaukee, in the suburb there of Brookfield. The police chief now confirming that three people were killed. The search is ongoing; the suspect's vehicle has been recovered. The suspect himself has not. This began about 11:09 local time this morning. We want to listen now to Daniel Tushaus is the chief of police. This was recorded earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF DANIEL TUSHAUS, CITY OF BROOKFIELD POLICE DEPARTMENT: The city of Brookfield Police Department, our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims of this crime. Right now, I'll give you an overview of what took place.

At approximately 11:09 this morning, received a call of a shooting in progress at a salon, 200 North Moreland Road here in the city of Brookfield. We are told a male suspect was involved. That male suspect has been identified. You all have pictures apparently of Mr. Radcliffe Franklin Haughton, date of birth 12/17/66. He is a male, black, 6'1", 270 pounds. The time of the shooting, the suspect was wearing a gray sweater, blue jeans and had a white and black backpack with him. The vehicle that we were looking for has been located. We are no longer looking for the black Mazda Protege. That vehicle has been located not in the city of Brookfield. As it has already been recorded the suspect is from around here. The situation is fluid and ongoing. Our initial attention was reaching, locating and treating the victims. That has taken place. We have a total of seven victims, four were transported. We believe we have three deceased. None of those people or any of the victims are being identified at this time for obvious reasons.

(Inaudible)

TUSHAUS: The investigation is ongoing. We have a number of scenes being worked on as we speak not only the salon, but the suspect's residence in Brown Deer and others. Our entire operation now is focused on locating the suspect. I will tell you that we are currently still searching a portion of the salon. We have a number of s.w.a.t. teams that are going that right now. There's a portion of the salon that has not been cleared and we are in the process of doing that right now.

I can also tell you that in the process of clearing that building, we believe we have identified what is being described as an improvised explosive device, which is also hampering our clearing of that building. Milwaukee, I believe the city of Milwaukee Bomb Squad is here and is assisting us in that endeavor. I have no other information for you at this time. I am not going to take any questions as this is a continuing, fluid, ongoing investigation.

I want to make sure the information I give you is accurate and complete and I'm not up here guessing for you. So, again, thank you for your indulgence, if we have anything else earth shattering for you before 6:30, we will let you know that, otherwise we will see you at 6:30 this evening at the public safety building.

(INAUDIBLE)

TUSHAUS: No we are not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAVIDGE: That is police chief Daniel Tushaus; he is with the Brookfield Police Department. He says that as far as they know, they have three people that are dead. That is a new figure. And then on top of that they are continuing to search the scene where the shooting took place and also he said they have come across what he thinks the authorities think is an improvised explosive device. Another words a bomb of a some sort homemade. And so that is hampering the rest of their investigation as they continue to search for possible more victims. The suspect remains on the loose, his identity is out there and I also know the police have surrounded what they believe is the suspect's home. We'll continue to follow this story and keep you updated.

Meanwhile, I'll bet the strategy from hunting terrorist that comes unabided. We will have it all explained next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SAVIDGE: You have heard this story before, a law enforcement officer gains the trust of a would be terrorist and then makes a bust. Some critics question whether these suspects ever would have done any harm if they haven't crossed paths with an informant and they wonder if getting these perspective terrorists off the streets actually does any good. Susan Candiotti takes a closer look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): It is a top story grabbing a lot of attention.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Breaking news, the FBI says it's foiled a plot.

UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: The man did not know he was being tracked by an FBI sting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The suspect faces charges of attempting to use a weapon of mass destruction.

CANDIOTTI: An alleged plot to set off a car bomb outside New York's Federal Reserve Bank. The accused, a 21 year old college student Quazi Nafis from Bangladesh who prosecutors say made contact with an informant who brought in several under cover agents to help him build a dummy bomb. And on his own, could the student have pulled off his alleged scheme to, quote, destroy America? The Justice Department stands by its use of an informant charging that Nafis claimed al Qaeda connections and actively sought recruits. Criminal defense lawyer Ron Kuby who is not involved in this case questions the government's use of informants in this investigation and others.

Prosecutors would say we're not building the bomb, they're going out there and buying the ingredients, they're the ones that are taking the active roll in this.

RON KUBY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: But that's not true, these people for the most part lack any capacity to carry on to craft these evil things that they want to do. They have absolutely no ability to do it, sometimes they're of sub normal or dramatically sub normal intelligence.

CANDIOTTI: There's an ongoing debate over how informants are used. In 2006, the so called Liberty City 7 were secretly recorded by the FBI mainly homeless men in Miami with an informant accused in a plot to blow up federal buildings and Chicago's Sears tower. After the first of two mistrials, a jury foreman said this.

JEFF AGRON, JURY FOREMAN: I don't think any of us on the jury really felt that these guys were really that dangerous, or really, quote terrorists.

CANDIOTTI: But after a third trial, five of the men were convicted. Last year in another controversial case involving this man, the FBI dropped its investigation because according to sources, there were questions about possible entrapment involving an informant.

But New York City authorities say the case is solid and are prosecuting Hussa Mentell (ph) an alleged al Qaeda sympathizer accused of trying to set off pipe bombs. Police offered this mock up of how powerful the bombs could have been. Those images are just the prospect of them could be enough to convince juries according to CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen.

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: If it is a 100 percent convictional or pleading guilty great. So juries are just not buying the idea that these guys are getting entrapped.

KUBY: I don't know that disagree with that is correct that this person should be removed from the street.

CANDIOTTI: I sense there's a but coming in.

KUBY: The but is that we want law enforcement when law enforcement gets involved to diffuse these things rather than to encourage people to act out their angriest moments.

CANDIOTTI: Going under cover, using informants, deciding who is really capable of watching a terror attack that is the issue and making that call can have life changing consequences.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, New York.

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SAVIDGE: Still to come we will have the second part of our interview with the Kennedy daughter.

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SAVIDGE: Most of us are very familiar with the story of President John F. Kennedy and his family. The story of JFK's brother Robert and his wife Ethel probably not so familiar. This weekend HBO is airing "Ethel" the world winning producer and director of this documentary as a pretty personal interest in the subject. It is Robert and Ethel's youngest daughter Rory Kennedy. Fredricka Whitfield had a chance to talk to her about making this very personal story.

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I felt like through this documentary, it's the first time I met your mom, I love her, I fell in love with her, and I love that the pictures of your mom and dad show how happy they were together. They were always smiling and in all of these film clips and these still pictures.

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UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: The children were always included in everything we did. I think it probably made them more interesting.

UNIDENTIFED FEMALE: Any occasion that there was to have a party, there would be a party.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She had every single member of President Kennedy's cabinet knocked into the swimming pool.

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WHITFIELD: Was it just that your parents loved chaos? That is what it seemed like sometimes with 19 dogs, a horse and a seal, etc?

RORY KENNEDY, DAUGHTER OF ETHEL & ROBERT KENNEDY: My mother definitely has a high tolerance for chaos. That is absolutely true. She is a funny combination because even though she's very comfortable with chaos, she also has a lot of structure in her life, we had dinner every night at 7:00, and there were certain rules within that that she kept solid. She's got a lot of wonderful contradictions about her.

WHITFIELD: And it was exciting and inspiring to hear from your siblings that talked about how daddy and mommy made sure that the kids were involved in everything. It wasn't by chance that would happen, but it really was deliberate, it was by design and even the letters from your dad to some of your siblings about why they were being exposed to certain things was just so inspiring.

KENNEDY: Yes. There's some wonderful moments in the film, I think, where you really show and see how integrated the children are in my mother and father's life and whether it's on the campaign trail or there's been wonderful scene in the movie where during the Civil Rights Movement and the integration of the University of Alabama and my sister Carrie is talking to my father, or is in his office and gets on the phone with Nick Katzenbach (ph) down in the middle of this crises.

You can see how integrated the children are in my parents' lives. Honestly, I think one of the issues which is that my father was so busy during that time, there was so much going on, my mother was too, that they didn't want to have to choose between leaving the kids at home, doing the work that they were doing and they had so many children because they loved children, right? So I think they wanted to bring them along, it was more fun for everybody and I think the kids really enjoyed being with the parents so it was a nice thing all around.

WHITFIELD: And even though there was some arm twisting to get your mom to acquiesce to this documentary, she seemed pretty willing to talk about those things except, your dad's death in 1968. How difficult was that for you to broach the subject with her? Was her response is it what you expected or were you hoping she was would open up?

KENNEDY: Honestly, it was really one of the major reasons why I didn't want to do this film because I know how hard it is for my mother to talk about some of these very sad moments in her life and the losses that she's experienced as well as my brothers and sisters and I knew I would have to ask those questions if I was going to do this film. I don't think we're a particularly over sharing family and group and it's not really in my comfort zone or I think my mother's or my siblings frankly.

So it was hard for me to ask those questions and you know, my mother responds, let's move on and talk about something else, yes, but I think her facial expression, how she says it speaks a million words just in those few and is very revealing in terms of how she has managed to deal with such hardship and pain and loss through her life. Which is, you know, let's move on.

SAVIDGE: One can only imagine. Rory told Fredericka one reason she was able to make this film is that her mother saved more than 16,000 personal photos in her home. "Ethel" by the way in on HBO this Wednesday night at 6"45 P.M. You can check your listings for replays after that.

And in Oregon, a happy homecoming. Army Sergeant Melanie Web surprised her daughter during a school assembly. The third grader had no idea her mom was home from Afghanistan. It was Web's fourth tour of duty in eight years.

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MELANIE WEB: The military gets so much praise but we forget to praise the families. I'm just glad to be home. And I just pray for the families and the troops are still over there.

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SAVIDGE: Web's husband also in the army and still deployed. The family stays in touch by e-mail and skype.

It was a massive art heist, seven paintings worth millions all swiped at once and it was all caught on camera. We will talk to a stolen art hunter just ahead in the next hour.

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