Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

CNN International: Israel Takes Control Of Palestinian Side Of Rafah Crossing; U.S Remains Opposed To Israeli Ground Invasion Of Rafah; Israeli Military: Captured Gaza Side Of Rafah Crossing. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired May 07, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RAHEL SOLOMON, HOST, "CNN NEWSROOM": Good morning. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York, and this is CNN Newsroom.

It is a very busy hour ahead. We are monitoring the Israeli military operations in Rafah and the latest on the negotiations on a ceasefire. We will bring you an exclusive interview with the Jordanian Foreign Minister coming up. We're also going to have special coverage from outside the Manhattan criminal courthouse. That's where star witness Stormy Daniels has been called to testify in Donald Trump's hush money trial. We will take you there. And we are expecting U.S. President Joe Biden to deliver a key speech, calling for action against antisemitism. We'll take you to his address as it happens.

Well, we want to begin with the Israel-Hamas war, facing what many fear could be its most dangerous moment so far. Israeli tanks captured the Palestinian side of the Rafah crossing. That's a key entry point for aid to Gaza on the Egyptian border, and troops are moving forward. Medical officials said that multiple people were killed during airstrikes overnight as refugees tried to evacuate the war zone. Hamas is calling Israel's maneuvers into Rafah a humanitarian disaster, threatening more than one million displaced Palestinians.

We will now go to my CNN colleague Becky Anderson, who is in Abu Dhabi, who has, of course, been following all of this and has more now. Becky.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN HOST, CONNECT THE WORLD: Thank you, Rahel. Israel's operation in Rafah coming after Hamas agreed late Monday to a ceasefire and a hostage proposal. That proposal that Israel set has terms that are far from meeting its demands. Well, talks are set to resume today in Cairo with mediators from Qatar, Israel and the U.S. included, and that includes CIA Director Bill Burns, looking to solidify a deal. Egypt, right now, of course, in two -- sort of squarely in two files. It is right on that crucial border where more than 1.4 million Palestinians are sheltering, and it is underscoring how the talks that it is hosting in Cairo right now are directly related to what we are seeing on the ground in Rafah.

The Foreign Ministry said and I quote, "Egypt called on the Israeli side to exercise the utmost levels of restraint, and to stay away from a policy of brinkmanship that has long-term impact, and that would threaten the fate of the strenuous efforts made to reach a sustainable truce inside the Gaza Strip." Well, Egypt, of course, not the only country in the region calling on Israel to halt a looming offensive. Jordan's Foreign Minister, not mincing his words, tweeting earlier and I quote, "Instead of giving negotiations on hostage release and ceasefire a chance, Israeli government occupied Rafah crossing and closed it to humanitarian aid to starve Gazans. Its attack on Rafah threatens another massacre. The Security Council must act firmly and immediately. Netanyahu must face real consequence."

Well, Ayman Safadi, Jordan's Foreign Minister, joins me now live from Washington. And Foreign Minister, myself and certainly many others around this region where I am went to sleep last night hoping that there was finally some moves to secure a hostage and ceasefire deal in Gaza, only to wake up to Israeli troops on the ground in Rafah occupying that crucial border crossing. I just want to get your reaction to the images that we are seeing out of Rafah today. And just to let our viewers know you are, as we speak, in Washington.

AYMAN SAFADI, JORDANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Thank you, Becky. Good day to you. Terrible images, an indication of the worst that is yet to come if Netanyahu is allowed to continue with a ground invasion into Rafah, which by any standard will be another humanitarian catastrophe. As you said, people were expecting a ceasefire.

[11:05:00]

Indeed, Gazans were celebrating only for Netanyahu to thwart the deal by occupying the Palestinian side of the Rafah crossing and continuing his rhetoric that is basically saying unless the deal happens, he'll go ahead and kill more -- thousands of Palestinians. There are negotiations. Mediators are saying that they are close. Netanyahu is obligated to give those negotiations a chance. Unfortunately, he has done just the opposite. And again, he is pushing towards further escalation that would undermine the strenuous efforts that were made to get to a deal, and obviously, committing another massacre against Palestinians.

ANDERSON: The Israeli perspective is that a ceasefire and a hostage deal is not mutually exclusive from an assault on Rafah, where Israel believes the remaining Hamas militants are holed up. Now, Egypt has called for restraint, as you have, and has warned Israel to stay away from a quote "policy of brinkmanship that has long-term impact." What do you read into Egypt's statement then? What do you make of this call to stop this brinkmanship? Is that how you see things at present?

SAFADI: Well, Egypt is trying to prevent a massacre from happening. It's trying to prevent escalation. And it's not only Egypt. The whole world is saying the Rafah operation shouldn't have happened. Indeed, Israel's biggest supporter, the United States, is saying that Rafah operation should not happen. But again, the reality is Netanyahu is defying the whole world, is throwing even his allies under the bus and continuing with actions that are hurting all prospects for a ceasefire, dragging the region further into the abyss, and again, causing another humanitarian catastrophe. I think it is time the whole world realize that Netanyahu has got to

be stopped. Statements and urging is not going to do it. It is time Netanyahu face consequences. That is the moment. That's the reality that the whole world should recognize and act upon right now.

ANDERSON: Foreign Minister, you are coming to us from the U.S. capital, where yesterday King Abdullah met with President Joe Biden, cautioning against an Israeli attack on Rafah. Some months ago, Joe Biden himself calling Rafah a red line. You were in the room. Can you just explain a little more on what was discussed and what Joe Biden said?

SAFADI: I mean, basically, the discussion was focused on stopping the ground invasion into Rafah, ensuring that humanitarian catastrophe is addressed, and it's not allowed to be aggravated further, and stopping the war, getting a ceasefire, getting the hostage deal done, and actually walk -- move towards an irreversible path towards once and for all peace. His Majesty was very clear and warning against the horrific consequences of an attack on Rafah and also of the devastating impact of Israel continuing with its war and not allowing for all of us to come together and try and create the peace that would address Israel's concerns and Palestinians' rights. So, it was a very, very open discussion, very frank discussion. And -- but unfortunately, again, Netanyahu is not listening. He is just continuing with his divine self of the whole world.

ANDERSON: We know that broadly the parameters of a deal being discussed at present are, first phase, the release of a number of hostages, up to 33. Second phase, the restoration of, as it is described, a sustainable calm, otherwise known as a sustainable ceasefire. Third phase, potentially, the process of moving towards a plan for Gaza going forward. Do you agree in Jordan with the loose parameters of this deal? And to your understanding, do both sides ultimately agree with the parameters of this deal? I'm trying to get to whether if two sides over the next however many days can get together and agree on the finer detail. We are anywhere close to a temporary truce, the release of some hostages, and the potential for a sustainable calm or ceasefire.

[11:10:00]

SAFADI: Becky, the deal has been months in the making. Mediators have said that there are enough parameters to be able to get everybody's agreement to and then move ahead with the deal. We all support the deal. It is -- it must happen. Both sides are going to have to realize that this deal is a must, get the hostages out, released, get a ceasefire and stop this massacre. But again, I think it is wrong. Morally, legally, it is unacceptable for Netanyahu to leverage the killing of other thousands of Gazans to get the deal. He needs to negotiate, negotiate in earnest. And again, the mediators are working extremely hard, have been working nonstop to try and get that deal.

So, there are parameters that everybody agrees on. At least the mediators say that there are sufficient details need to be worked out and that's what negotiations are for. So, again, our negotiations should continue in earnest. Israel should negotiate, stop the attack on Rafah, and give the mediators the chance to get that deal and get us to calm that should ultimately lead to a permanent ceasefire.

ANDERSON: Israel's Foreign Minister Israel Katz has provided a statement that says that the entry of Israeli forces into Rafah promotes Israel's main goals of this war, including the -- securing the release of hostages and the defeat of Hamas. Israel hasn't changed its strategic goals this past seven months. He also said, and I quote him here, Foreign Minister, "The work of political persuasion on the political front is becoming more difficult." Do you understand that to be a statement directed to Washington? And is it your sense that there is one and up a ratcheting up of significant pressure by Washington on Israel at present, and a frustration on Israel's side about that, and the part that the U.S. is playing in mediating these talks?

SAFADI: I mean, again, the whole world has come to a point where it is unequivocally saying that this war has got to stop, that a ceasefire is a must. But, we go back to the same point. Netanyahu is vetoing all this effort. He is making sure that no efforts to bring an end to this war succeeds. And if I may, Becky, today, this morning, a convoy of aid moving out of Jordan to Erez was attacked by radical settlers, the same settlers who rampaged Palestinian villages with impunity. Israel is legally responsible to protect that convoy and it did not. It turned out those settlers to vandalize it, and it does so at the same time when it's closer to the Rafah and Kerem Shalom points and stop it from coming into the Palestinians with terrorists warning that Gaza is running out of fuel, or facing that risk of running that fuel tonight.

So, that all should speak to the fact that Israel is just continuing with its aggression, violating international law, continuing with its siege on Palestinians and not listening to anybody, and dragging the whole region into war. How can Israel justify attacking an aid convoy that it promised to secure on its own -- with its own forces? And it did not. So, this is a despicable crime that must be condemned by the whole world, and must bring alarm to the whole international community that Israel will just continue to do what this -- to do what it wants to do, in defiance of the will of the international community.

And it's time that the Security Council, the whole international community, acted firmly, effectively use all its legal tools to prevent this Israeli government from committing further crimes, further violation of international law, and starving more people. And again, all that Israeli government is saying about allowing for Palestinians in Rafah to be relocated is just unacceptable. The U.S. itself, that it has not seen a plan for that.

What Israel is doing is people who have already lost their homes, displaced into shelters that do not have the basic requirements of life, now it wants to displace them again, under the bombing that continues to wreck their lives. So, that is the reality. It is time the world said enough, and act to stop an Israeli governments from further crimes and further escalation.

ANDERSON: You and I were both in Riyadh last week in the same room that Antony Blinken, the Secretary of State, sat in, and suggested that the deal on the table or the proposal on the table for Hamas when it comes to a ceasefire and hostage deal at this point was enormously generous. [11:15:00]

Now, Hamas officials speaking last night in -- as they say agreeing to this proposal, said that they understand the Americans to be committed to ensuring the implementation of this deal, which speaks to the fact that they have for months been seeking a guarantee from Washington that a permanent ceasefire will indeed happen once the first phase of this deal is complete, if it ever get signed. You are in Washington and you are speaking to administration officials and others on the Hill. To your mind, has or will Washington provide the sort of guarantee that Hamas is looking for at this point? Can they even do that?

SAFADI: I mean, Egypt, Qatar, the U.S., all have been very engaged in negotiations to get that deal. They've been working extremely hard. And a ceasefire, by definition, means that both parties abide by it and stop hostilities. So, again, there is a deal on the table. Yes, there are things that still need to be worked out. But, that is what negotiations are for. And the U.S. is a mediator in this deal. And I'm sure that the three parties working to provide this deal would do what is required to convince those -- the two parties that the commitments that are being made would be respected.

But again, we have an opportunity here that would get the hostages out, get a ceasefire. Netanyahu needs to engage, engage in earnest, and if he does not stop the aggression on Rafah, he is jeopardizing that deal. And he is, again, pushing the region further into escalation. That is what we should all be focused on. And I think, again, Netanyahu should not be allowed to continue to murder with impunity, to continue with violating international law and deny people the right to get out of this misery and put the region on a track to peace for both Palestinians and Israelis.

ANDERSON: You were in the meeting with President Biden and King Abdullah yesterday. I know that you're -- you've got meetings on Capitol Hill and at the Pentagon alongside King Abdullah. So, what is the reception to the message that you have provided here? And repeatedly, as I speak to you, I hear your message. It doesn't change. What's the reception? How would you describe the reception to this message in Washington, and very specifically on the Hill?

SAFADI: I don't want to be speaking on behalf of the U.S. We're starting our meetings in a matter of couple of hours. But, all I can tell you is that the U.S. has publicly said it does not -- it will not support a ground offensive into Rafah. It will continue to work for a ceasefire that the war has got to stop and we need to move forward on a path towards peace. So, we made that message very clear. His Majesty was unequivocal in expressing the Jordanian position, which as you said, you're very, very aware of, and we continue to engage with the American administration. Only the U.S. has enough leverage to stop this Israeli government from dragging the region further into the mud.

And we hope that we'll be seeing that leverage used effectively and to the extent that it does prevent Netanyahu from dooming Gazans to more suffering and starvation, and the region to more conflict and wars and violence in the future. ANDERSON: With that, we'll leave it there. To remind our viewers, the crossing at Rafah is now closed, as is Kerem Shalom, and the Jordanian Foreign Minister pointing out and decrying the second attack on a Jordanian convoy using the Erez crossing. This is about humanitarian aid getting in to the people who need it most in an enclave which at present at least sees no respite. Talks ongoing, Rahel, about a ceasefire and hostage deal. They are at times confusing. We try to stick to what we understand to be the detail of that deal, or at least the wide parameters of that deal. But, at present, it doesn't look as if that is happening anytime soon. When I say them, I'm talking about hours. It could be hours. It could be days.

[11:20:00]

It could be weeks. At this point, it is really, really unclear, and as we know, the catastrophe --

SOLOMON: No. I mean, it's --

ANDERSON: -- and the conflict continues.

SOLOMON: The conflict continues, as you said. At times, it has been confusing and some have even used the word whiplash to describe the last 24 hours. Becky, we should tell our audience that we expect to hear from U.S. President Joe Biden within this hour. We presumably expect that he will address the events in Gaza, in Rafah within the last 24 hours. Becky Anderson, thanks so much to you.

I want to now bring in CNN Correspondent Jeremy Diamond. Jeremy, just give us a sense, based on the last 24 hours, what more is the IDF saying about this operation into Rafah? Is this perhaps the beginning of something more expanded? What are you learning?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rahel, you were just talking about the word whiplash, and just think of what we have seen over the last 36 hours or so. Yesterday morning started with thousands of leaflets being dropped in eastern Rafah, directing about 100,000 civilians to leave that area. We then had the Hamas proposal, basically saying that they had agreed to a ceasefire. We then later learned that it was not the same ceasefire proposal that Israel had tacitly agreed to with Egypt. And then we saw Israeli tanks rolling into Rafah overnight, taking over that key Rafah border crossing.

And today, the Israeli military now says that they have operational control of that Rafah border crossing. It's not clear how long they intend to stay at that Rafah border crossing and maintain that control for now. They say that this military operation is still ongoing. The Palestinian health officials say that 23 people, including six children, were killed in this military operation overnight, as the Israeli military not only rolled in with tanks and troops, but also pummeled the area with airstrikes and artillery, it would seem. We saw those explosions lighting up the night sky last night, and today we are seeing the damage that has resulted.

But, ultimately, this is also a story about the humanitarian catastrophe in Gaza and the impact that this military operation may have on the entry of humanitarian aid into Gaza. We've heard the UN Secretary General in just the last couple of hours laying out those concerns, sounding the alarm that if this Rafah border crossing remains closed, and if the Kerem Shalom crossing, which is also closed at this stage, if those remain closed for much longer, you will start to see impacts on the flow of humanitarian aid into Gaza. These are the two critical points for the entry of that aid. And right now, both of those crossings are closed. Both of those crossings are now controlled by the Israeli military as well.

So, enormous potential ramifications if this continues. And in the backdrop of all of this, of course, as you and Becky were just discussing, there will be these ongoing negotiations. Hamas and Israel still very far apart, particularly on this notion of a permanent ceasefire emerging in the second phase of this agreement. A lot of ground to be made up here, and unclear exactly how they will bridge that gap. Rahel.

SOLOMON: Yeah. Huge question this afternoon. Jeremy Diamond, the UN Secretary General saying this is a crucial opportunity. Yet, things are moving in the wrong direction. Jeremy Diamond live for us in Jerusalem. Jeremy, thank you.

All right. Coming up, adult film actress Stormy Daniels has now been called to the witness stand. Coming up, we're going to have the very latest from Donald Trump's hush money trial, after this short break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Omar Jimenez outside the Manhattan courthouse for Donald Trump's hush money trial. Now, one of the prosecution's major witnesses, the woman at the very center of their case, Stormy Daniels, is now on the stand. Now, attorneys for both sides huddled with the judge back and forth about Daniels' credibility before testimony began today. Judge Juan Merchan ruled that the adult film actress can testify about allegedly having sex with the former President, but he pointed out that we don't need to know the details. Fair enough. Despite the very real threat of jail time issued by the judge yesterday, Trump posted a message on his Truth Social platform today about the next witness in the trial, then deleted it. We've got a lot to talk about here.

I'm joined now by criminal defense attorney Bernarda Villalona. She is a former New York prosecutor. Now, look, for the viewers, over the course of today, obviously we've been following Stormy Daniels' testimony. She has largely been testifying about her background growing up, kind of how she first met Donald Trump at the time and some of their initial interactions. It's not like prosecutors jumped right into the hush money aspect of all this. But, what is the significance of someone like Stormy Daniels to the actual prosecution's case here?

BERNARDA VILLALONA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, & FORMER NEW YORK PROSECUTOR: So, interesting. The prosecution, legal-wise, there wasn't a necessity to call Stormy Daniels because she doesn't add to any of the elements of falsifying business records. So, there was no need to call her. However, optics-wise, that's the reason to call her because this case is all about the background help. It started with Stormy Daniels about this alleged relationship between Stormy Daniels and Trump. So, if the prosecution didn't call her, then the defense would have been arguing to the jury, wait, this case is about Stormy Daniels. You didn't hear from her. You didn't hear from her because this is all lies. And because you didn't hear from her, you can sense a piece of reasonable doubt and you should find Donald Trump now guilty.

Also, the prosecution called her in order to avoid maybe a missing witness charge where the judge may have given to the jury that the reason legally didn't call her is because she had something positive to say for the defense. Either way, Judge Merchan would not have granted that. Interestingly enough, even though the prosecutor doesn't have to prove that there was a sexual relationship between Donald Trump and Stormy Daniels, by proving or putting evidence out there, credible evidence that they were in a relationship, contradicts the character and credibility of Donald Trump. Because remember, already in evidence, there is already posted video where he says these women are lying. This is all made up. This never happened.

JIMENEZ: So, this counters that.

VILLALONA: It counters it.

JIMENEZ: Yeah.

VILLALONA: So, if the jury is like, wait, I'm listening to her. Yeah. I don't like her. I don't respect her profession or what her profession was, but I do believe that she did have a sexual entanglement with Donald Trump. Then it goes against Donald Trump.

JIMENEZ: Yeah. And look, for some who might believe -- despite her being maybe the most well-known name that the prosecution may call to the witness stand outside of maybe Michael Cohen as far as reporting has gone, you don't believe she is sort of central, a make or break witness, so to speak, for the prosecution, if I'm hearing you correctly. So then, looking ahead, the prosecution has said they've got about two weeks left in their case, give or take. How does she set up what is coming next? What does the prosecution still have to prove, in your eyes?

VILLALONA: Well, still -- the prosecution still has to provide this direct link, this knowledge, this intent --

JIMENEZ: To Trump.

VILLALONA: -- on the part of Donald Trump.

JIMENEZ: Yeah.

VILLALONA: Like, we still don't have that. We have inferences that he was well aware about these payments being made, how these payments were being made, and that it was for the purpose of concealing this crime, but we don't have anything direct. I think the most direct evidence would have been probably Allen Weisselberg being called to testify because he does give guidance to Michael Cohen and also to accounts payable how these payments should be made. But, everything is going to fall still on Michael Cohen. All this testimony here is so corroborating what Michael Cohen has to say.

[11:30:00]

So, I think that's what the prosecution is doing. It is just setting everything up. So, when Michael Cohen finally testifies, he'll be able to tie up all these loose ends and get us more into the inside of Donald Trump's mind and his urgency and the need to shut this story down before that campaign, hence affecting the campaign itself.

JIMENEZ: And look, I think it's no secret that the defense has tried to not to look too far ahead, but that the defense has tried to discredit the -- someone like Michael Cohen, and actually how much you can believe what he says here. He has, of course, pleaded guilty to his own set of related charges to this time period. But, does someone like Stormy Daniels provide more credibility to someone like Michael Cohen down the line?

VILLALONA: And so, Stormy Daniels does provide credibility and a sense of, if she is telling you and if she is showing the jury that this relationship took place, then it gives urgency and a rise to Michael Cohen, like, we need to hurry up. We need to shut this down.

JIMENEZ: Yeah.

VILLALONA: Donald Trump, we cannot have this come to light. Hence, Hope Hicks, she testified on Friday, she was like we went into complete crisis mode --

JIMENEZ: Yeah.

VILLALONA: -- if this were to come out.

JIMENEZ: Yeah.

VILLALONA: No one questioned. Wait. Did it happen or it didn't happen? It was immediately. Whether it happened or not, we need to shut this down because we can't have it affect the campaign. So, yes, she is going to call Michael Cohen. And remember that we heard some testimony from Stormy Daniels' attorney of how Michael Cohen was actually attacking Stormy Daniels on the phone about do not mess with us.

JIMENEZ: Yeah.

VILLALONA: Who is us? Donald Trump and Michael Cohen.

JIMENEZ: Yeah. No. It'll be interesting. As we've been mentioning, Stormy Daniels is in the process of testifying. They've taken a short break right now. We expect that testimony to resume. Bernarda Villalona, really appreciate the time and perspective, as always. As I mentioned, we're going to continue to follow what we've been

seeing out of court. We're going to have more on Trump's hush money trial as it develops. And moments from now, President Joe Biden is scheduled to speak to call for a larger fight against antisemitism. We're going to take his speech live. You can see reporters waiting for that, as we come in.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLOMON: Welcome back. And any moment now, U.S. President Joe Biden is expected to give a keynote address on Capitol Hill to push for more efforts to combat antisemitism. He is making the speech for the Holocaust Memorial Museum's Day of Remembrance ceremony. Now, his keynote address comes after Israeli troops pushed into Rafah, now controlling a vital aid crossing for Gaza. And the Israeli action creates a precarious moment on many fronts. Palestinian refugees are trying to flee the warzone and could face what could become another humanitarian crisis.

[11:35:00]

And also, back to the negotiation table, U.S. CIA Director Bill Burns in Cairo again for more meetings with delegations. According to sources, efforts to revive the ceasefire-for-hostages agreement are ongoing after Israel turned down the latest Hamas proposal.

Joining us from Washington is Steven Cook. He is a Senior Fellow for Middle Eastern Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations. He is also the author of "The End of Ambition: America's Past, Present, and Future in the Middle East." Steven, always good to have you. Help me understand, so, it felt like the last 24 hours or so, 12 hours or so, was a bit of whiplash back and forth. At one point, you had Gazans out in the street celebrating what was Hamas' announcement that they had accepted a deal, and then not so much. I mean, what's your sense of what's happening here?

STEVEN COOK, SR. FELLOW FOR MIDDLE EASTERN STUDIES, COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS, & AUTHOR, "THE END OF AMBITION": Well, it seems that the Egyptians and the Qataris negotiated some sort of deal that Hamas was amenable to, but the Israelis were never briefed on the text. And so, whereas Hamas had agreed, the Israelis, once they looked at the text, believed that it fell short of what they required in order to establish a ceasefire. And as a result, or perhaps not just as a result of that, we see Israeli forces into Gaza today, controlling the Rafah crossing. Israeli leadership is of the view, at this point, the best way in order to bring hostages home is to apply military pressure directly on Hamas.

SOLOMON: And what's your sense of what that does to negotiations moving forward? And from your perspective, I mean, how far apart are the sides now? I mean, today marks seven months since October 7.

COOK: Yeah. You have to give the CIA Director Bill Burns a lot of credit because he doesn't have a lot to work with. Hamas cannot give up the hostages because it's their only point of leverage. The Israelis cannot agree to end the war before their war aims are achieved, their war aims namely being the destruction of these Hamas brigades and the killing or capture of the Hamas leadership in the Gaza Strip. That would suggest that the parties are actually quite far apart. There is no real touch point to build on here. And I think the kind of false reporting that there was a ceasefire yesterday speaks to the fact that actually that they are quite far apart, because he has realized once they took a look at the text, immediately rejected it.

SOLOMON: Yeah. I'm curious. We had an interview, an exclusive interview a bit earlier, my colleague Becky Anderson speaking to the Jordanian Foreign Minister. I'm not sure if you heard it. But, one thing that caught my attention is that he said, at this point, the only nation that has the leverage to get Israel to try to accept some sort of deal, to try to end what is happening in Gaza is the U.S., and I'm curious if you still think that is the case.

COOK: I think in the broad abstract, he is quite right. The United States does have influence in Israel. However, this conflict is very different from other conflicts in Gaza. The Israelis frame this war as an existential one that they are fighting for their lives after their horrific October 7 attacks. Under those circumstances, the U.S. influence and ability to leverage the Israelis into changing their military tactics is more limited than you might think. There has been obviously lots of discussion on Capitol Hill about conditioning military aid to Israel at this moment. I suspect that has gotten the Israelis' attention, but that nevertheless has not really changed the way in which they have prosecuted this war.

SOLOMON: Steven, standby, if you might, if you have the time. I want to bring in our correspondent, as we prepare to wait for, as we prepare to hear from President Biden, CNN Senior White House Reporter Kevin Liptak. Kevin, give us a sense of what we can expect to hear from the President when he speaks within minutes.

KEVIN LIPTAK, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah. I think the President really views this as kind of a tentpole speech, to put a stake down when it comes to this issue of antisemitism. But, of course, he is speaking at this very fraught moment as negotiations continue over the hostages in Gaza, but also as the situation in Gaza causes so much protest and anger on American campuses in the United States. And so, that is the backdrop that the President will be speaking against.

And I think what you'll hear from him is certainly a remembrance of the Holocaust and the six million Jews who were killed in that horrific event. He'll also talk about October 7, seven months ago today, as an example of modern day antisemitism. And I think he'll use all of that to kind of draw a very stark line on where he stands on this issue. And certainly, he has been coming under fire from Republicans, including the former President Donald Trump, for not speaking out more vocally on this issue of antisemitism.

[11:40:00]

And he is really trying to strike a balance here, and you heard him do that last week when it came to these college protests, saying that while free speech is a cornerstone of American democracy, it cannot spill over into hate speech. And I think that is the balance he will again strike today and try and expand on a little bit. And you will also see the President announcing a number of steps that the administration is taking when it comes to this issue of trying to define what antisemitism actually is. And you'll see the Department of Education release a letter to schools in universities citing examples of what antisemitism is. You will also see the Department of Homeland Security and the State Department take steps to try and counter antisemitism online.

So, really, kind of a landmark speech that the President is hoping to deliver, and hoping to make very clear where he stands on this issue at quite a fraught moment, as there has been incidents of antisemitism at some of these college protests. The FBI has said that incidents of -- anti-Jewish incidents has increased over the last several years. So, this is not sort of an abstract issue that the President will be speaking to. It's a very concrete issue. And he does want to make very clear exactly where he stands.

SOLOMON: Now, the ADL saying, at least according to our reporting, that they've seen a 140 percent increase in incidents from 2022 to 2023, with the dramatic increase taking place after October 7.

Kevin, any sense of whether we expect Biden to talk about what's happened in Rafah, this Israeli limited operation from what we can tell at this point? I mean, we know that in the past, they have said that a major offensive, a major operation in Rafah would be a red line. Do we expect the President to address this at all?

COOK: I don't think he will talk about that specifically, just because he does want this speech to sort of standalone as a moment on antisemitism. But, I don't think you can necessarily separate all of these things from the moment that he is speaking in. And at the end of the day, when you talk about college protests and when you talk about unrest in the United States, the real hope inside the White House is that a hostage deal that would include a temporary ceasefire could lower the temperature, could eventually cause tensions to cool when it comes to this anger that the President has been confronting, not just in college campuses, but really everywhere he goes.

The Rafah operation that Israel appears to be commencing over the last several days would complicate that, and could potentially aggravate the situation in Gaza even more. We do know that President Biden spoke yesterday with the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. He, according to White House officials, made very clear where he stands on this Rafah issue, which is that Israel should not go in unless there is a credible plan to protect the more than million Palestinian civilians who are sheltering there.

So, even if he does not speak about this specifically and directly in the speech, I don't think you can separate what the President says today from the larger moment that he is speaking against. And it is a very fragile moment. This has been sort of one of the biggest sort of junctures that the White House has seen in this conflict in the seven months since it began. And certainly, President Biden, I think, will have that in the back of his mind as he is delivering this address. SOLOMON: And Kevin, you mentioned some of the pushback and some of the backlash he is getting from Republicans about not being stronger. But, I'm curious. I mean, this is obviously Holocaust Remembrance Day where we remember the horrors of the Holocaust. But, the President has also faced backlash from the more progressive wing of his party because of what's happening in Gaza. And so, when you talk about the fine line that he has to walk, I mean, it is -- it can't get any finer.

LIPTAK: Yeah. And I think what you'll see the President do is really kind of stake out this position, and what he views as the American middle, the side that doesn't view the protests as necessarily anti- democratic, but also is very troubled by these incidents of antisemitism, and that is the balance he is trying to strike. When you talk to the President's advisors, they really do view that as the place that most Americans are, in this position where they think that certainly students have a right to protest, but they don't have a right to cross over into the scenes of chaos, into the incidents of antisemitism.

You've seen President Biden trying to strike this balance previously. And I'm just thinking back to some of the protests that we saw in the run up to the 2020 election. President Biden didn't necessarily side fully with those who were in the streets protesting police brutality, and calling for a defunding of the police. He did try and stake out this area in the middle where he was mindful of incidents of police brutality, but certainly very forceful against the idea of defunding the police.

[11:45:00]

And I think that there are distinct parallels to what the President is trying to do now. He is opposed certainly to some of Israel's actions in Gaza. He has been vocal on that. He wants Israel to allow more humanitarian aid. And he is very troubled by what the prospect of a ground invasion of Rafah might look like. But, on the other side, he is very opposed to antisemitic incidents in the United States. And I think that is very much the balance he is trying to strike. In the space, he is trying to carve out in the middle of this very fraught moment in the United States.

SOLOMON: Yeah. Kevin Liptak, don't go far, if you might.

I want to bring back Steven Cook. I mean, Steven, just get your sense of what you might be listening for. Certainly, when the U.S. President speaks, all eyes tend to watch it really closely, and perhaps none more than this moment, the UN Secretary General saying that this was a critical opportunity in this war and things are moving in the wrong direction. What are you listening for when we hear from the President momentarily?

COOK: Well, I certainly hope that he doesn't muddle a strong state in speaking out about anti-Jewish hatred with the very complicated situation in the Gaza Strip. I think that it is -- there is undoubtedly antisemitism that has flowed from these college campus protests, demands that Jews go back to Poland, discussions of pro- genocide versus anti-genocide Jewish students. These are things that send shivers down the spine of American Jews, rightfully so. So, I think the President really needs -- has an opportunity here to take a very, very strong stand on this type of activity. You can speak out against anti-Jewish hatred as well as be critical of the way in which the Israelis have undertaken their military operations. But, muddling the two, you lose the edge and message of both.

SOLOMON: Steven Cook, we so appreciate your time today. Thank you. Kevin Liptak reporting from the White House, we thank you.

As we continue to watch again, we expect the U.S. President to speak about antisemitism, about Holocaust remembrance. Any moment now, we will take you there live just as soon as he does. But, in the meantime, we're going to take a short break. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SOLOMON: Welcome back. U.S. President Joe Biden is preparing, any moment, we just got a two-minute warning, to deliver the keynote speech at a Holocaust Remembrance ceremony in Washington, D.C. This is a live picture. We're going to listen just as soon as he takes the podium. But, in the meantime, I want to get to Kevin Liptak, who has been monitoring this from the White House. Kevin, just give us a sense of the type of precision in terms of Biden's speech, in terms of his language that will be required here as he tries to walk this line against both, remaining strong against antisemitism but also what's happening in Gaza.

LIPTAK: Yeah. And I do think his message will have to be fairly clear.

[11:50:00]

This is a speech his advisors have been working on over the last week or so, and the goal really is to be very clear that he does condemn antisemitism, while at the same he supports the right to free speech. And so, I think you're absolutely right. It will require a degree of precision, both in the language and the delivery that the President is speaking to. This is an issue that the President feels quite deeply about. You've heard him talk about his impetus to run for President in 2020, being the march in Charlottesville, President Trump's failure to condemn it, the idea that there was this antisemitic bile, which are the words that he uses consistently on display there.

And so, this is something that he does feel quite deeply. He is long a supporter of Israel as well. You hear him talk about meeting every Prime Minister of Israel, dating back to Golda Meir. And I think the issue for the President at this moment is the politics of Israel have just shifted so much in the last decade or so that he does need to strike this balance when it comes to young Americans and young supporters who he will rely upon, if he has to win reelection in November.

And so, I think the precision of his remarks and his language and his rhetoric will be something to very closely monitor when he takes the podium there at the U.S. Capitol. I should note, this is a yearly event. Every President going back to Clinton have spoken at this event at some point during their term. So, this isn't necessarily a new venue for a President. I remember when President Trump spoke at this venue in 2017, it was a very sort of staged teleprompter speech. And I do think that reflects the importance of this message that they will want to deliver when it comes to antisemitism in the United States.

Of course, since President Trump delivered that speech, and now you have seen this increase according to the FBI and other organizations in these incidents of anti-Jewish hate. And I think that's an important backdrop and setting for the President to speak to when he comes out and delivers --

SOLOMON: Yeah.

LIPTAK: -- these remarks.

SOLOMON: Yeah. The Anti-Defamation League saying that it has seen a 140 percent increase in these incidents. Kevin Liptak, we thank you, reporting there from the White House. As we can see, the President has just been introduced and just taken the podium. Let's listen together.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Thank you. Thank you. Please. Thank you, Stuart Eizenstat for that introduction, for your leadership in the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum. You are a true scholar and a statesman, and a dear friend. Speaker Johnson, Leader Jeffries, members of Congress, and especially the survivors of the Holocaust, my mother here, she looks at you and say God love you all. God love you all. Abe Foxman and all other survivors who embody absolute courage and dignity and grace are here as well.

During these sacred days of remembrance, we grieve. We give voice to the six million Jews who were systematically targeted, murdered by the Nazis and their collaborators during World War Two. We honor the memory of victims, the pain of survivors, the bravery of heroes, who stood up to Hitler's unspeakable evil, and we recommit to heading and heeding the lessons of one of the darkest chapters in human history, to revitalize and realize the responsibility of never again. Never again, simply translated for me, means never forget. Never forget. Never forgetting means we must keep telling the story. We must keep teaching the truth. We must keep teaching our children and our grandchildren. And the truth is, we're at risk of people not knowing the truth.

That's why, growing up, my dad taught me and my siblings about the horrors of the show at our family dinner table. That's why I visited Yad Vashem with my family, as a Senator, as Vice President, as President. And that's why I took my grandchildren to Dachau so they could see and bear witness to the perils of indifference, the complicity of silence in the face of evil that they knew was happening.

Germany, 1933, Hitler and his Nazi Party rise to power by rekindling one of the world's oldest forms of prejudice and hate, antisemitism. (Inaudible) began with mass murder, it started slowly across economic, political, social and cultural life, propaganda demonizing Jews, boycotts of Jewish businesses, synagogues defaced with swastikas, harassment of Jews in the street and the schools, antisemitic demonstrations, pogroms, organized riots with the indifference of the world.

[11:55:00]

With the indifference of the world, Hitler knew he could expand his reign of terror by eliminating Jews from Germany to annihilate Jews across Europe through genocide. The Nazis called the final solution, concentration camps, gas chambers, mass shootings. By the time the war ended, six million Jews, one out of every three Jews in the entire world were murdered. This ancient hatred of Jews didn't begin with the Holocaust. It didn't end with the Holocaust either, or after even after our victory in World War Two. This hatred continues to lie deep in the hearts of too many people in the world and requires our continued vigilance and outspokenness.

That hatred was brought to life on October 7 in 2023. On a sacred Jewish holiday, the terrorist group Hamas unleashed the deadliest day of the Jewish people since the Holocaust, driven by ancient desire to wipe out the Jewish people off the face of the earth. Over 1,200 innocent people, babies, parents, grandparents, slaughtered in a kibbutz, massacred at a music festival, brutally raped, mutilated, and sexually assaulted. Thousands more carrying wounds, bought some shrapnel from the memory of that terrible day they endured. Hundreds taken hostage, including survivors of this show.

Now, here we are, not 75 years later, but just seven and a half months later, and people are already forgetting, are already forgetting that Hamas unleashed this terror. It was Hamas that brutalized Israelis. It was Hamas who took and continues the hold hostages. I have not forgotten, nor have you, and we will not forget.

As Jews around the world still cope with the atrocities and trauma of that day and its aftermath, we've seen a ferocious surge of antisemitism in America and around the world. Vicious propaganda on social media, Jews forced to keep their -- hide or keep his under baseball hats, tucked their Jewish stars into their shirts. On college campuses, Jewish students block, harass, attack, or walk into class. Antisemitism, antisemitic posters, slogans calling for the annihilation of Israel, the world's only Jewish state. Too many people denying, downplaying, rationalizing and ignoring the horrors of the Holocaust. And October 7, including Hamas' appalling use of sexual violence to torture and terrorize Jews. It's absolutely despicable and it must stop. Silence.

Silence in a while can hide much, but it can erase nothing, some of them are so heinous, so horrific, so grievous, they cannot be married, buried, no matter how hard people try. In my view, a major lesson the Holocaust is, as mentioned earlier, it was not inevitable. We know hate never goes away. It only hides. And given a little oxygen, it comes out from under of the rocks. We also know what stops hate. One thing, all of us. The late Rabbi Jonathan Sacks described antisemitism as a virus that has survived and mutated over time. Together, we cannot continue to let that happen. We have to remember our basic principles as a nation. We have an obligation. We have an obligation to learn the lessons of history. So, don't surrender our future to the horrors of the past.

[12:00:00]