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Hamas Announces Successful Ambush Of IDF Soldiers In Rafah, Gaza; Vice President Kamala Harris Meets With Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy As U.S. Reaffirms Support For Ukraine Against Russian Invasion; President Biden To Attend Fundraiser With Hollywood Celebrities; Princess Catherine Of Wales Makes Public Appearance At Birthday Celebrations Of King Charles; U.S. Supreme Court Strikes Down Federal Ban On Bump Stocks For Guns; Report Reveals Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas Took More Trips On Private Jet Of Billionaire Harlan Crow Than Previously Disclosed; Federal Agents Arrest Eight Tajikistan Nationals Illegally in U.S. With Suspected Terrorist Ties to ISIS. Aired 2-3p ET

Aired June 15, 2024 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[14:00:00]

FREDRICKA WHITFIELD, CNN HOST: And the California Department of Corrects said this, that they don't comment on proposed legislation. So what's your response to what they had to say?

DORSEY NUNN, AUTHOR, "WHAT KIND OF BIRD CAN'T FLY, A MEMOIR OF RESILIENCE AND RESURRECTION": My response is this -- five percent of the world population is holding 25 percent of the prison population. That wouldn't even because possible without necessarily forcing the labor. So the question still boils down there when you get really down to it, it ain't about whether or not we're going to advance the notion of rehabilitation or we're going to advance the notion of public safety. What it gets down to is, are we going to advance the notion of being able to do this real charitable practice of slavery as being cost effective.

So at a certain point, we probably need to have a real question inside the United States, if a country is founded on the backs of slaves, and we say that we are not practicing slavery, should we actually not practice slavery? And prior to 1865, California had impacted it, probably a little bit earlier, in 1849. So it came years early, and probably Vermont had some pause in probably 1877, and they still is holding on to the vestiges of slavery.

WHITFIELD: A few more hurdles before a decision is made as to whether California voters will make the decision about changing it's constitution.

DUNN: The shirt that I'm wearing right now, I'm having to show up on the 18th when it goes to the election committee wearing these shirts. They're going to be wearing these shirts throughout Juneteenth. They're going to be wearing shirts when they show up in terms of appropriation on 24.

So a number of us who have went through the system, we recognize that they have been practicing slavery. Everybody else thinks that it's just a simple form of punishment. So like, you need to ask the question, are you willing to actually give up the notion of brutally subjecting people to forced labor? Or are you actually defining punishment as being sentenced to prison and the time that we spend in prison?

Then do something else with the population that's there, because none of the jobs that you gave me and forced me to work on, I didn't -- it didn't give me the opportunity to feed my family when I got out. It didn't give me the opportunity to feed my family or over the period of time. And it didn't necessarily provide you greater public safety because the first thing that we need to do is remove desperation and those choices off the board. Slavery gives labor a bad name.

WHITFIELD: Dorsey Nunn, I appreciate your point of view, really. I mean, a pivotal week potentially and beyond. Thank you so much for your time. Appreciate it.

NUNN: Thank you for having me and thank you for allowing me to speak on the question of how they exploited me and they exploit millions of other people.

WHITFIELD: Absolutely love hearing your point of view. Thank you so much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN breaking news.

WHITFIELD: Hello again, everyone, and thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield. And we start with this breaking news. At any moment, Israel Defense Forces are expected to give an update after are one of the deadliest incidents on their troops since October 7th. Hamas claims it launched a complex ambush on the soldiers in Rafah earlier today. But so far the IDF is only calling it an incident in Gaza. We're standing by for new details. We'll bring that press conference to you live.

Meantime, CNN's Paula Hancocks is monitoring developments from a Tel Aviv, Israel. So Paula, what more are you learning about all this?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Fred, at this point, we do know that it was an incident, the IDF says, in Rafah. Eight soldiers were killed in that incident. And they say that they are investigating, reviewing what happened and trying to find out the cause of what happened.

Now, according to Hamas, they have issued a statement saying that it was a complex ambush on their behalf in an area of western Rafahm Tel al-Sultan. They say that they attacked a military bulldozer, which was then engulfed in flames. And when an armored personnel carrier came to rescue those on the bulldozer, they say they attack the APC as well.

So we know that this is an area where there has been significant Israeli military activity in recent days.

[14:05:03] We heard from one of the civil defense officials in Rafah that there had been airstrikes and artillery shooting since dawn in that area. In fact, they said that they had received phone calls of civilians calling for people to be evacuated as they were injured, also calling for bodies to be retrieved. But they said they simply couldn't get there because the operations and the fighting at that point was too intense.

Now the IDF on Friday also said that they had discovered a number of tunnels in this area of Rafah, in the wider area of Rafah, also saying that they had found large quantities of weapons, as well, and pointing out that they had seen sort of passages between one house to the next. They believed that they had been put there by Hamas to give them easy access around this very densely populated area of Rafah. Fred?

WHITFIELD: All right, Paula Hancocks, keep us posted. Thank you so much.

Meantime, happening right now at a Ukraine peace summit in Switzerland, Vice President Kamala Harris is reaffirming U.S. support for Ukraine in its war with Russia. Today, Harris held a meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the vice president vowing the U.S. would continue to stand with Ukraine and announced more aid for the country's humanitarian and energy needs.

For more on this, let's bring in CNN White House correspondent Arlette Saenz. Arlette, Harris is meeting with Zelenskyy. It's just the latest in the U.S. showing it's continued support for Ukraine.

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Fred, so much of the Biden administration's focus in the past week between both vice president Kamala Harris and President Joe Biden has been in trying to show that U.S. support for Ukraine and also rallying allies to continue supporting the war torn country as well.

Now, Vice President Harris met in Switzerland on the sidelines of his peace summit with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and she announced that the U.S. would be providing $1.5 billion in aid to Ukraine. That aid is intended to help Ukraine rebuild some of it's energy infrastructure that's been damaged during this war, as well as offer assistance to some of the refugee initiatives in that country.

And with the vice president in her meeting with Zelenskyy, but also in her remarks before roughly 100 world leaders, what Harris was trying to do was reinforced that the U.S. remains committed to Ukraine, that the U.S. will continue to try to impose costs on Russia. And she tried to argue that the U.S. is not doing this out of charity, but because it is in the strategic interests of the United States to help Ukraine. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The rule of law must be cherished. Sovereignty and territorial integrity of all states must be respected. And national borders should not be changed by force. And nearly two-and-a-half years later, I'm here to reaffirm the commitment of the United States to these principles and our unwavering commitment to support the people of Ukraine as they defend themselves against Russia's brutal aggression.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: Now Harris is attending this peace summit in President Bidens place. He had just wrapped attending the G7 summit in Italy where he also met with Zelenskyy and is now here in Los Angeles, really highlighting some of the competing demands facing the president in this election year.

WHITFIELD: Also Arlette, President Biden, well, he's back from the G7, and now he's in Los Angeles today for a fundraiser with some big Hollywood stars, including the former President Barack Obama. What more can you tell us about the event tonight?

SAENZ: Yes, the Biden campaign is preparing for a major star-studded event here at the Peacock Theatre in Los Angeles. Biden campaign officials tell me that they have raised $28 million for this fundraiser heading into tonight. There's potential that could grow as they continue to count the money. It actually marks the biggest Democratic fundraiser in history. And it comes at a time when the Biden campaign is really trying to tap into some celebrity star power to help mobilize and engage voters.

President Biden will be here at the Peacock Theatre engaged in a conversation with his former boss, former President Barack Obama. Late-night host Jimmy Kimmel will be moderating that. And you also will see George Clooney and Julia Roberts, as well as many other celebrities participating in the evenings program.

Now, this is similar to a campaign event that the Biden team did back in March. There was that three presidents fundraiser at Radio City Music Hall that included Obama, Biden, as well as former President Bill Clinton. That event brought in $26 million. So the Biden campaign is feeling quite good that they were able to get another big haul in tonight's event.

[14:10:01]

Of course, they are trying to maintain that cash advantage that they have over former President Donald Trump at a time when Trump has really made significant gains in his own fundraising. So the Biden campaign is hoping a big event like this tonight will help really build up their campaign war chest heading into a very expensive race in November.

WHITFIELD: All right, Arlette Saenz in Los Angeles, thanks so much.

Former President Donald Trump is also on the campaign trail today. Trump is in the battleground state of Michigan, where he will attend a roundtable and speak at a conservative conference that includes a number of potential vice presidential candidates. CNN's Eva McKend is covering this for us. Eva, what more do we know about Trump's plans there in Detroit? EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: Fred, Trump will address

thousands of attendees here at the Turning Point Action Convention. They're calling it the peoples convention. And of course, Turning Point is a strong and powerful ally for the former president. Speaking to people here, they are true Trump believers. They're wearing a hats and shirts that say Trump won in 2020. Some of them wearing shirts with Trump's mug shot on it proudly. Several prominent conservatives have already addressed this it's crowd, including Georgia Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene. Dr. Ben Carson currently on stage behind me in conversation with the controversial founder of this organization, Charlie Kirk. And prior to them, Steve Bannon spoke on stage, really giving an inflammatory speech. Let's listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, FORMER ADVISER TO PRESIDENT TRUMP: -- day, January 20th, 2025 is accountability day. On the afternoon of the 20th, we're also going to start the pick and shovel work to take apart the administrative state and to take on it's rogue element, the praetorian guard, the deep state. We're going to run them all out of town. Are you prepared to fight? Are you prepared to give it all? Are you prepared to leave it all on the battlefield?

(APPLAUSE)

BANNON: Ladies and gentlemen, it's very simple -- victory or death.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: I'm speaking to people in this crowd. They told me that they were inspired by that speech, Fred.

Listen, the next few months is going to be pivotal for this turning point organization as they test their organizing as they work to get out the vote for Trump here in this pivotal battleground state of Michigan. Fred?

WHITFIELD: Wow, "victory or death." That's quite ominous. All right, Evan McKend, thank you so much.

All right, still to come, a royal return. Princess Catherine of Wales making her first public appearance in months. We're live from Buckingham Palace.

Plus, the reason Catholic bishops in the U.S. are apologizing to indigenous communities for being traumatized by the Catholic Church.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:17:38]

WHITFIELD: All right, King Charles's birthday celebration is in full swing today, including the arrival of the Princess of Wales, making her first public appearance since her cancer diagnosis in March. She joined her family and other senior royals on the balcony there at Buckingham Palace. They were there to celebrate King Charles's 75th birthday and watch the trooping the color military parade.

Let's bring in CNN's Nada Bashir outside Buckingham Palace, where there's been a little sunshine, there has been a little rain. Either way, it's all about us celebrating the royal family, but especially as seeing this first public appearance of Princess Kate, Nada.

NADA BASHIR, CNN PRODUCER: It suddenly is quite a spectacle, an annual event marks the king's official birthday. His actual real birthday is in November, but typically at the monarch would celebrate their birthday in June. We have seen this huge show of support, of course, once again for the royal family, huge crowds gathering outside Buckingham Palace. And what we've seen today is quite the military spectacle to mark the king's official birthday. Some 1,400 officers and soldiers taking part in the precession, 400 musicians, 200 horses.

So this is quite a grand event. We've seen these huge crowds, who are somewhat dissipated now, but earlier in the morning as significant show to watch the procession as it passes through your from Buckingham Palace. And we saw senior members of the royal family gathering, taking part in this possession in some cases. Prince William, the Prince of Wales, riding on horseback, but also that his wife, Princess Catherine, the Princess of Wales, and her three children watching on from a viewing point. So this is quite a significant event, bringing together senior members the royal family to mark the king's official birthday.

WHITFIELD: And Nada, is there anything new about the prognosis of Princess Catherine as she deals with cancer treatments?

BASHIR: Well look, Fredricka, this is the first time that we've seen Princess Catherine taking part in a royal engagement since she made that shock announcement to members of the British public in March earlier this year. She did seem in high spirits today, taking part in this royal engagement alongside her three young children.

But of course, this comes just a day after she shared a statement with British public, giving an update as to her health at this point in time. In a statement on Instagram she went on to say that "On the days I feel well enough, it is a joy to engage with school life, spend personal time on the things that give me energy and positivity, as well as starting to do a little work from home.

[14:20:08]

I'm learning how to be patient, especially with uncertainty, taking each de as it comes, listening to my body and allowing myself to take this much needed time to heal."

Now, the Princess of Wales went on to say that she is not out of the woods just yet, that she is still undergoing treatment for cancer. And this is expected to continue over the next few months, that there are good days and bad days. And while we do not expect to see Princess Catherine returning fully to her royal engagements, there may be some occasions over the summer, depending on her condition, where she will take part.

WHITFIELD: All right, Nada Bashir outside Buckingham Palace, thanks so much.

All right, coming up, what the us Supreme Court's ruling on bump stocks could mean for gun control in the U.S. And the major case is still on the docket that could transform American life as we know it.

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[14:25:19]

WHITFIELD: On Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a federal ban on bump stocks. The decision fell along ideological lines, the majority say there is a difference between bump stocks and machine guns. We're going to play for you two videos from YouTuber Zach Nelson, and in the first one, he fires a semiautomatic rifle without a bump stock. The second with a bump stock.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(GUNFIRE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: He is a gun owner, and he noted in the video that there was a significant difference, and that was just the latest opinion from the conservative court to earlier this week a preserved access to the abortion pill, mifepristone, as well. The justices are still slated to hear nearly two dozen cases in the next few weeks that could transform society.

Joining us right now to discuss the court is the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill law professor Michael Gerhardt. Professor, good to see you. So with the high court striking down the Trump era ban on bump stocks, what do you believe happens now?

MICHAEL GERHARDT, BURTON CRAIGE DISTINGUISHED PROFESSOR OF LAW, UNC LAW SCHOOL: Well, what's going to happen now is actually something the court full well knows is going to happen, and that is basically nothing. So the Supreme Court in the bump stock case tossed the ball to Congress. And what that means is that nothing is going to happen because Congress is divided, and Congress is going to be unable to do anything. So in effect, what this decision is done is it has freed up bump stocks from being regulated.

WHITFIELD: There are several other pretty big cases are still on the Supreme Court docket, including immunity for former presidents, and emergency abortion care. What are you most anticipating?

GERHARDT: Well, you've just named some of the cases I'm probably most anticipating. I think each of them is extremely important. With emergency abortion care, for example, it's a question about whether or not the federal government may be able to provide for that through some of its enactments, or whether or not those enactments are beyond the power of Congress. So we're waiting to see whether or not the Supreme Court can accept that Congress has the power to do with that case is all about. I'm also very concerned about the presidential immunity case. President Trump is arguing that he should not be held liable for anything that happened on January 6th because everything he did that day was official, and official presidential activity is activity for which the president is immune from any kind of criminal prosecution. The counterargument has to do with whether or not there's a limit to what official presidential activity is. And the case can be made that the president, President Trump in particular, exceeded his authority and violated the law in trying to stir up a riot on January 6th.

WHITFIELD: Let's discuss ethics on the bench. Clarence Thomas, according to information obtained by Senate Judiciary Chairman Dick Durbin, Justice Thomas took more trips on the private plane of megadonor Harlan Crow than people initially thought. Walk us through what this means.

GERHARDT: Well, what this means is how unaccountable a Supreme Court justice may become. So Clarence Thomas having been appointed to the Supreme Court, is like every other justice. They're entitled to life tenure. And the only way they can lose it is either by dying, retiring, or being impeached and convicted in Congress.

He's not likely to retire anytime soon. He seems to be in good health. So Justice Thomas is, in some respects, therefore, beyond the reach of basic ethics laws. Basic ethics laws say, and these do apply to the Supreme Court, that a justice, if a justice's integrity or impartiality is put into question, that person should recuse himself from a variety of cases.

But justice Thomas's credibility and integrity had been put into question. First his credibility because he keeps not mentioning all the other trips he's taken. He might be caught and having taken one or two trips, but it turns out they're more trips he hasn't disclosed. So people lose a lot of trust in his judgment because of that.

[14:30:00]

There's also a problem with his integrity in the sense that nobody can hold them accountable for those ethical lapses. And at the same time, he may be hearing cases, for example, the presidential immunity case involving January 6th which his wife had actually tried to support and gave encouragement to the president, President Trump, as well as others.

WHITFIELD: All right, Professor Michael Gerhardt, we'll leave it there for now. Thanks so much.

Straight ahead, why the Catholic Church in the U.S. is apologizing for mistreating and traumatizing Native American children.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:35:13]

WHITFIELD: The James Webb space telescope has unraveled the mysteries of our universe, but scientists are still hoping to answer the million-dollar question -- are we alone? Kristin Fisher investigates on "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper" Sunday night, 8:00, right here on CNN.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of the things that Enceladus is doing that's given us a favor, a big favor by erupting all these materials from its ocean into space. And then we can send our missions and our robots there to look at these molecules and to get clues about the subsurface ocean.

DR. THOMAS ZURBUCHEN, FORMER ASSOCIATE ADMINISTRATOR, NASA: These water worlds out there, even in our own solar system, seeing whether there's emissions, bursts of water and organics that are coming out from the inside of the ice are much more promising.

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN ANCHOR: A pool of evidence that scientists are hoping to dive into. But among those critical building blocks of life, there seemed to be one very crucial element missing, until now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Phosphorus, it's what makes life possible and is what are the building blocks for DNA.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The possibilities are kind of extraordinary here. But if you have an ocean, a salty ocean for a few billion years, maybe there's something alive.

GERONIMO VILLANUEVA, PLANETARY SCIENTIST, NASA GODDARD SPACE FLIGHT CENTER: Imagine that all those planners have also moons which are habitable. It defines the idea of habitability on the possibilities of life in a different dimension.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have one example of life anywhere right now, it's life on earth. But if we were to find a second example of life on one of the moons in our solar system or someplace else, that would open up the possibilities all over the universe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WHITFIELD: Oh, my goodness. Well, make sure to tune in. "The Whole Story with Anderson Cooper", one whole hour, one whole topic, airs tomorrow at 8:00 p.m. eastern and pacific only on CNN.

And for the first time, Catholic leaders in the U.S. are apologizing for what they call mistreatment and trauma inflicted on Native Americans. The formal apology issued by the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops on Friday discussed the church's role in forced assimilation of Native American children in the 19th and 20th centuries through a number of boarding schools.

And in their statement, they say, I'm quoting now, "Today, many North American indigenous Catholics trace their faith to the decision of their ancestors to embrace Catholicism hundreds of years ago. Sadly, many indigenous Catholics have felt a sense of abandonment in their relationship with church leaders due to a lack of understanding of their unique cultural needs. We apologize for the failure to nurture, strengthen, honor, recognize, and appreciate those entrusted to our pastoral care."

Joining us right now is former Catholic priest Patrick Wall. He is the author of the book "Sex, Priests, and Secret Codes." Patrick, great to see you.

PATRICK WALL, AUTHOR, "SEX, PRIESTS, AND SECRET CODES": Good to see you.

WHITFIELD: So in your view, what is the significance of this apology by the church? And how meaningful is it for the victims who endured this abuse?

WALL: Well, this is a really hollow apology because this comes only after being forced by three decades of litigation and government inquiry and international pressure. They did not do this freely, just as many native people did not choose to become Catholic in the prior century freely because of the force of the institution.

WHITFIELD: So for many who don't know, what were these schools, these boarding schools all about? What were the kinds of abuses that many of these Native Americans endured?

WALL: Well, these were Roman Catholic boarding schools funded by mainly taxpayer dollars through the government, and they were regional. So these kids were literally plucked away from their families, sent to these boarding schools to be trained and enculturated. And essentially, it destroyed the language and culture and music of the native way. And so when these kids then did go back to their villages or go back to their reservations, they were lost. They were trained in the western way. They weren't trained in their native way.

WHITFIELD: Back in 2022, Pope Francis traveled to Canada and formerly apologized for the forced assimilation of native children. So what explains the space between the Pope doing that in Canada and the U.S. Catholic bishops issuing it's apology now?

[14:40:08]

WALL: Well, again, there's been an ongoing 30 years of litigation, and so now that the public has the ability to see the kids who were sexually assaulted by Roman Catholic priests and religious in these schools, that it's finally starting to come to light that they have to change. But it's only because of district attorneys inquiries, because of state attorney general's reports, and years and years of forest litigation that they're even beginning process of this apology.

But there are many things that they have done from a revisionist history standpoint, not fully acknowledging what they're people did. And this is the time, I really believe that they need to ask the government, they need the ask the U.S. Senate, because it's a multi- state problem, to inquire and study what religions have done to native Alaskans and native Indian people across all the states, across all the religions, find out what happened, and then develop policies and pathways forward to help them heal. WHITFIELD: And you touched on this. Many of the victims of, say, the boarding schools or this assimilation practice, they never recovered. Many were never reunited with their family members. They suffer lifelong trauma. So might this apology potentially lead to something more, something bigger? I mean reparations of some sort that will help promote a healing or fill in some of the blanks?

WALL: I think the biggest thing they can do is not try to fix it themselves but ask for help, to call on the U.S. Senate to get U.S. senators especially who have large native populations to come together, have an entire nationwide investigation of what happened at all the religious boarding schools, and allow the survivors to know what happened to them, to know it wasn't their fault, and to see that this was a pretty systematic thing that they were forced into, and there was nowhere for them to go.

WHITFIELD: Very horrible. All right, Patrick Wall, thank you so much.

WALL: Happy, Father's Day.

WHITFIELD: Thank you. Happy Father's Day to you.

Coming up, ISIS isn't done with us. The new warnings of a potential terror attack on U.S. soil.

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[14:47:20]

WHITFIELD: Terrorism fears are growing among national security officials after the recent arrest of eight people are from Tajikistan with suspected ties to ISIS. Sources tell CNN immigration authorities may the arrest in Los Angeles, New York, and Philadelphia. The men initially entered the U.S. at the southern border and were vetted when they requested asylum. Katie Bo Lillis has details.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

KATIE BO LILLIS, CNN REPORTER: It's just a matter of time before a dangerous ISIS affiliate known as ISIS-K carries out an attack in the United States. That's what a prominent terrorism expert tells CNN. Those concerns are growing amongst national security officials after the arrest this week of eight Tajik nationals with suspected ties to ISIS.

These men crossed the southern border and they were vetted when they requested asylum. It wasn't until after they had been permitted to enter the United States that intelligence officials uncovered troubling indications about their potential ties to the terror group.

Now, it's important to understand that according to U.S. officials whom I spoke to, there is no evidence at this point that these eight men were sent to the U.S. as part of a specific orchestrated plot, or even necessarily to do violence at all. But at least some number of them, U.S. intelligence found, had espoused extremist rhetoric, either in direct communications or on their social media. And officials tell me that the bigger concern for law enforcement is that these men could have been radicalized by ISIS-K once they were already in the country and were perhaps feeling homesick, isolated, or struggling financially, making them susceptible to ISIS propaganda.

What we know oh, about ISIS-K, this splinter of ISIS that is based in Afghanistan that these men are believed to have had ties to, is that they appear to be emphasizing their propaganda and online recruitment efforts. And they're focused on inspiring so-called lone-wolf attackers rather than training and fielding operatives like Al-Qaeda did with 9/11, for example.

And U.S. officials were especially worried about these eight men, I'm told, because of their Rajik nationality. The leadership of ISIS-K is primarily from Tajikistan, and the group has recruited heavily from that country and other central Asian nations. Tajikistan is poorer. The population there faces an extreme amount of religious repression, both of which are factors that analysts say make it the perfect petri dish for extremism.

A senior U.S. official also pointed out to me that ISIS-K has risen to prominence relatively recently and at a time when the U.S. has shifted some of its intelligence focus out of the region after withdrawal from Afghanistan in 2021. So there's still a lot that the us doesn't know about ISIS-K in general and about the ties that these men in particular had to the group.

[14:50:01]

Right now, at least publicly, we don't know the nature of those ties. Were these people in direct communication with ISIS-K recruiters or operational leaders, or did one of the men have a cousin or a brother, for example, who belongs to the group and he's simply been WhatsApp- ing a family member?

We just don't know. But because us officials are in general quite worried that global conditions right now, in particular the conflict in Gaza, have put the risk level for a terror attack on U.S. soil at a particularly high level, they aren't taking any chances. The men were arrested in raids in multiple cities across the country this week, and now remain in federal custody as the investigation unfolds.

Katie Bo Lillis, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[14:55:21]

WHITFIELD: All right, before the break, we brought you new reporting on growing concerns among national security officials, and this comes after the recent arrest of eight people from Tajikistan with suspected ties to ISIS. I want to bring in now Michael Allen, managing director at Beacon Global Strategies. He also served in several roles at the National Security Council during the George W. Bush administration. Great to see you. MICHAEL ALLEN, MANAGING DIRECTOR, BEACON GLOBAL STRATEGIES: Thank you.

Thank you for having me.

WHITFIELD: Thank you. So how worrying is it that all of those arrested were apparently screened by U.S. officials and still allowed to enter into the U.S.?

ALLEN: Well, Fredricka, I think it's only -- we're only as good as our intelligence collection is. And when there's so many different people around the world, and there's so many different issues coming out of now central Asia, I think it's a new threat picture that the intelligence community and the national security establishment in Washington are going to have to look harder into.

I think it is something that we need to be worried about, and I think we need to remain on our toes so that we have our homeland security coordinated with some of our intelligence elements overseas so that we can begin to try and screen and block out would be terrorists.

WHITFIELD: And then what kind of a level of concern are you hearing from homeland security officials about potential terrorists exploiting the southern border, in particular, to enter the U.S.?

ALLEN: So we've been hearing it more and more of late. I think it began principally by the FBI director in numerous congressional testimonies where he was able to just say very frankly and disarmingly, listen, this is a way for them to enter the country. It's been a flashing light for people around on the world to realize that the backdoor of the United States might be ajar.

And so I think it's something that Congress needs to pay better attention to. They need to fund more Border Patrol. We need to put more intelligence elements, maybe it's drones and the rest, on the southern border. And at a time when were worried about China, Russia, and the Middle East, we've just got one more thing that we need to find the time to deal with.

WHITFIELD: A "Foreign Affairs" piece from this week was titled "The terrorism warning lights are blinking red again." Do you agree? Has there been a level of complacency or even comfort in the U.S. up until this point?

ALLEN: I think so. For years now, we've assumed that Al-Qaeda had been crushed and ISIS was back on its heels. But if we look at how much is going on in the Middle East, how much is online that could potentially inflame would the jihadists, and you look at the increasing ungoverned space in Syria and even parts of Iraq, I think you put all that together, and that's why the article is saying the system is blinking red.

I think it's something that the intelligence community, while it may have been spending its precious resources and assets swear in recent years as we've been into a period of great power competition, we have to remember that stateless international terrorists are still trying to get to the United States, and we have to figure out a way to stop them before they get here. WHITFIELD: "The New York Times" also reported in April that ISIS-K is

increasingly recruiting from Tajikistan with Tajiks making up more than half of the recruits. We also heard that underscored by our own Katie Bo Lillis in her report before the break. So what stands out to you about the terror group's recruitment efforts?

ALLEN: Well, I think, one, it's coming for from a region that we've always been worried about, but it seems to be going up the threat matrix. And those are the countries in central Asia. Also, there is new evidence, I think, especially when you consider some of the new sources, that Afghanistan may not be as safe as we had anticipated.

We, the Biden administration, the United States is relying on something called over the border, over the horizon intelligence collection, and drones that can fly in from the Middle East. We may need to figure out a way to be more present in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and in the central Asian region so that we can try and hit these terrorists overseas or get to them before they can get to the United States.

WHITFIELD: All right, Michael Allen, we'll leave it there for now. Thank you so much, and happy Father's Day weekend.

ALLEN: Thank you so much.

WHITFIELD: All right, hello again, everyone. Thank you so much for joining me. I'm Fredricka Whitfield.