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Fast-Moving Fire Two Percent Contained, 70 MPH Gusts Possible Tonight; Biden Calls Supreme Court "Out Of Kilter" At Fundraiser; Israel Defense Forces Announces "Tactical Pause" To Allow More Humanitarian Aid; 11 Days Away: CNN Holds Presidential Debate On June 27; Rare Access Inside ISIS Prison and Detention Camps; "The James Webb Telescope: Are we Alone." Aired 7-8p ET

Aired June 16, 2024 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:00:41]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Welcome everyone, you're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Omar Jimenez in Washington. We're going to start with "BREAKING NEWS" in Southern California.

A fast-moving wildfire has already burned more than 12,000 acres in Los Angeles County and strong winds are likely to keep stoking the fire, with the National Weather Service predicting gusts of up to 70 miles an hour.

I want to bring in Camila Bernal, who joins us in Gorman, California where the fire started about an hour north of Los Angeles. I can see some of the wind in your shot right now. What are you seeing right now? What are you feeling right there on the scene?

CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's what I was just about to tell you. You can see it in my hair, you know, it is 45 to 55 miles per hour winds during the day, according to the National Weather Service. And you mentioned those 70-mile per hour winds, well, that's overnight, and that's the biggest concern for firefighters, because that fire spreads quickly.

You can see here behind me this whole area was torched by the fire. And so, what they were doing here, the crews on the ground is trying to connect those areas that were not burned to the areas that were. And so, the flames in the smoke that you're seeing right now, that is from a controlled burn. So, it is a backburn that they did on purpose, hoping to increase that containment number that at the moment is still at two percent.

We are still seeing a lot of water drops throughout the day. So many of those helicopters just circling this area. There is a nearby lake and that has been extremely helpful for air resources. But of course, the crews on the ground also working you know around the clock and they are in communication with the crews, and they are telling them exactly where to drop that water in this area.

Take a listen to what the Forest Service is saying about their concerns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FLEMMING BERTELSEN, UNITED STATES FOREST SERVICE: Every one of us is concerned with the wind. That's the single most driving factor of this fire. It does -- it burns fairly frequently along this corridor, which keeps it from there being a very large brush component.

However, now we have more light flashy fuels so the fire can move quickly. And then, when the wind lines up with the drainages, and with such grip and right through them, it's definitely concerned. So, that's what we're looking at.

If hopefully these winds that are forecasted tonight don't materialize to the extent they are supposed to, which is 60-mile an hour, and maybe tomorrow will be more calm day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: And that's the hope that tomorrow will be more calm because already, 1,200 people are under an evacuation order and there are others under an evacuation warning. So, officials just saying, look, overnight, those winds can pick up so have your things ready in case that in the middle of the night you have to get up and leave.

That is the biggest tip from authorities here on the ground as they continue to battle these flames.

Again, these crews are working around the clock doing everything they can to keep that containment going up and up. But again, the concern is the wind, that the overnight hours, it is hot, it is low humidity, and those wind gusts could make the situation a lot worse, Omar.

JIMENEZ: And Camila, obviously, you know, you've covered fires and for those on the west coast this might not be the best question. But I think for many people who just are seeing this, and hear that the winds are going to make things bad, how -- what is the dynamic on the ground that the wind could actually legitimately affect with those wind gusts based on where you are right now?

BERNAL: Yes, it just moves the fire so quickly that at times people don't have enough time to get up and leave. That's really the concern when it comes to areas that are populated or areas where you have structures even if they are further apart. The wind just picks up those flames and moves it so quickly that you may not have time to evacuate.

And so, that's why there is this warning for people who live in this area to have things ready, because you just never know in what direction it could go, where and amber can just spread the fire, and so, you have to be ready in case that does happen, especially when you're around a fire like this one that continues to grow, and that firefighters are saying is harder to get a handle on because of the conditions and because of the terrain.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Camila Bernal, really appreciate you explaining that for us, and thanks for your reporting on the ground in Gorman, California. Stay safe.

All right. Shifting gears. The 2024 presidential campaign is kicking into high gear with the -- just 11 days until the first presidential debate. Right there. Boom.

[19:05:06]

Coming here on CNN, last night, President Joe Biden and former president, Barack Obama, went to a fundraiser PAC with A-list celebrity -- celebrities from Hollywood's in L.A., in a discussion moderated by Jimmy Kimmel.

President Biden talks about how dangerous he thinks a second Trump presidency would be. Now, the Biden campaign says the event raised $30 million, which would make it the single most successful day event in the Democratic Party's history.

CNN correspondent Priscilla Alvarez joins us now. Now, Priscilla, Biden obviously had some sharp criticisms of Trump over the course of this. But also seemed to focus a lot of his attacks on the Supreme Court as well.

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: He did. The warnings more of a second Donald Trump presidency, but this time was very much focused on the Supreme Court. The president's argument being that over the next four years, there could be vacancies on the Supreme Court and then posing the question as to what that would mean if Donald Trump were the president. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Look, the Supreme Court has never been as out of kilter as it is today. After the decision that overrule Roe v. Wade, the Dobbs decision. You had Clarence Thomas talking about the fact that there are going to be other things we should reconsider, including in-vitro fertilization, including contraception, including all these things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERNAL: So, you hear him talking there about reproductive freedoms. That has been a galvanizing issue for Democrats and the Biden campaign, one they fanned out across the country to say, look, if Donald Trump is reelected, it's going to put your reproductive freedoms at risk.

And it's one data point in the larger argument of the Biden campaign is trying to make, that there could be chaos, and confusion, and unpredictability over the next few years if Donald Trump were to take a second term.

Now, former President Barack Obama was seated right next to President Biden, and he talked about the values of candidates, and that it is important for voters to take that into consideration when they go to the polls. But of course, Omar, this was also a fundraiser. And so, this allowed them to rake in more cash. They want to keep a cash advantage over Donald Trump. This was an event with $30 million. That eclipses the March fundraiser from New York City, and allows them to continue to build that momentum that they really want to keep, need to keep going into November.

JIMENEZ: And look, again, raising this amount of money isn't going to win you an election by itself, but it doesn't hurt.

Priscilla Alvarez, really appreciate it. Thank you.

I want to keep this conversation going. Joining us is former Illinois Congressman Joe Walsh and Miles Taylor, former homeland security chief of staff and author of the book, "Blowback". Thanks for joining us to you both.

Now, Miles, I want to -- I want to start with you. What do you make of Biden focusing some of his -- of his criticisms of a potential next Trump administration on the makeup of the Supreme Court, effective?

MILES TAYLOR, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Well, look, I think it's a double-edged sword, because it's certainly something that's going to fire up his base. But you are taking a risk sometimes with independents on whether that messaging will land.

Now, Biden's done it the right way by anchoring it in everyday issues, and not just having it be about the ideological balance of the Supreme Court, which is kind of obtuse for your average voter. He is talking about things that matter to them, like reproductive rights.

And I actually think if, if Joe Biden wants to been -- you know, beat Donald Trump, he really needs to anchor his criticisms of a second Trump administration in those realities.

I mean, Omar, just a few minutes ago, you were talking about the wildfire in California. That's a perfect example. Because people like me have come forward to say that Donald Trump wanted to use disasters like that, to gain leverage over his opponents, to withhold aid.

In the case of a wildfire. years ago in California, Trump didn't want to give money to California, because he didn't like the Democratic governor and the state. Those are the types of things Joe Biden needs to point out. And the Biden administration, by the way, has declared this wildfire a federal disaster area.

But those are the things a future Trump administration might not do if it's a blue state that they don't like. So, the more that Joe Biden anchors those criticisms and forecasts into realities that affect every day Americans, the more it's going to resonate.

JIMENEZ: And Joe, I mean, look, as we talk about the Supreme Court anchored in some of those realities, and when we saw, maybe, no more clearer with the overturning of Roe v. Wade, and then, the big motivating factor that had, especially, over the course of the ensuing midterms for Democrats.

Do you still see that issue is one that is going to motivate people enough to put Democrats over the top in November or enough to the point where, at least, hurts Republicans in a significant way?

JOE WALSH, FORMER REPRESENTATIVE, ILLINOIS: No, Omar, I agree with Miles. I think the Supreme Court issue itself does it. People don't necessarily get it, the makeup of the Supreme Court. It sounds a little inside baseball. Miles is right.

[19:10:00]

Talk about the issues Biden has got to talk about the issues. Joe Biden has an enormous motivation problem. And I know it's so interesting to talk about this race every single day. But so much Omar is writing on this debate in nine or 10 days, because I really believe, Joe Biden has one obstacle, and one obstacle only.

He's got to show the American people that he is not too old. That he is up to the job.

He has to show the American people that. And he's got to do that initially here on a debate stage in 10 days, and I'm pretty confident that he will.

JIMENEZ: And Miles, look, one of -- one of the issues that I think has been a central point in the Biden administration, and we so far is the situation on the southern border. And obviously, we just saw Biden's recent executive order on that front to try and limit the amount of people that can get in under certain circumstances.

But politically, do you see that as legitimate political cover when it comes to immigration? I mean, do you see it in that way at all? Or how do you make sure it does not present in that way?

TAYLOR: Well, I mean, I'll be honest, politically, he's getting hammered on it right now. And the reality is, voters do not care about a policy decision and what the implications of that policy decision are.

Unfortunately, most voters don't understand the nuance of what Joe Biden did, which was significant. He made very significant moves at the southern border, which are moves that could have happened during the Trump administration. Some of them actually did happen during the Trump administration. And they are moves that Republicans in Congress should be happy about.

But none of that matters if Joe Biden doesn't defend that decision, and talk about it in the language that will recruit independent voters. He needs to stand up for that he needs to say he took decisive action. He needs to be very, very bold on border security in the debate. And he can still do that while talking about the importance of a humane immigration policy and fixing our broken system.

But he has to take the ownership of that. And he can't just expect that by making the decision voters are going to give him credit for it.

JIMENEZ: Yes. And look, one of -- one of the key issues, I think when you're running as an incumbent is, of course, you are running to try and get reelected in this case. But you also have to be president in the United States. And there are many administrative duties and responsibilities that come with the job.

And Joe, obviously, my mind goes to Ukraine aid, which of course, it has seemed to be increasingly difficult to get through Capitol Hill over the past year or so. And we saw what former President Trump said at a rally this weekend, where he didn't really instill confidence that that relationship would continue.

But do you see that as an issue that breaks through with voters, as something that voters are actually going to be dialed into, as opposed to what, of course, right now is important to him and his presidential administration?

WALSH: Oh, Omar, I absolutely do. Especially with the voters that Biden needs, independence people in the middle. Look, what did Trump say yesterday? Trump said last night that he -- again, he said this before, he will side with Putin.

I mean, let's be really clear about what Donald Trump said if he is reelected. He will side with Putin. He'll cut off Ukraine. He doesn't want Ukraine to win. He will side with Putin. Absolutely, Biden's got to go after that.

What's so difficult is Donald Trump is so manifestly crazy and unfit. And a lot of voters, because it's been 3-1/2, four years, have forgotten about how crazy and unfit Trump is. Biden's got to lean into it. He is a threat to democracy, Donald Trump is, and Joe Biden's got to remind people of that every single day.

JIMENEZ: And look, as you mentioned, he will have an opportunity as part of our CNN debate on June 27, both of them will get to go head- to-head and with the factors. No audience. It will just be them two up on -- up in that studio, and what I imagined to be a substantive debate. Myles Taylor, Joe Walsh, appreciate both of you guys for being here.

All right, we're following a lot of other headlines, including Israeli forces announcing what they are calling a tactical pause along the route in southern Gaza to let in more aid, while also vowing that the fighting in Rafah will continue.

[19:14:33]

You're in the CNN Newsroom. Stay with us.

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JIMENEZ: New tonight, an Israeli official says Prime Minister Netanyahu was unhappy when he first heard about Israel's tactical pause for humanitarian aid in Gaza, CNN's Oren Liebermann is live for us from Haifa, Israel. So, Oren, Israel said there would be no lead up and fighting in and around Rafah despite any pause along portions of the southern border. What have you heard in regards to clashes in that area today or on the wider details of any pause?

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: The fighting there continues in Rafah and the Israeli military made clear they would keep pushing into Rafah as they work their way along the border there between Gaza and Egypt. What effect this tactical pause has on that fighting? If any, we will get a better sense of that in the next couple of days here, but the Israeli military and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have made it clear that fighting there will continue.

[19:20:08]

What's different is the announcement now of this tactical pause that went into effect on Saturday from 8:00 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. On 11: p.m. -- an 11-hour pausing the fighting along a very specific route, from the Kerem Shalom crossing in southern Israel where Israel says there are more than a thousand trucks waiting to go in along a very specific route to the European Hospital in Khan Yunis, just north of Rafah.

Clearly, humanitarian aid is desperately needed in Gaza. The U.N. has warned that 50,000 children there are suffering from malnutrition, warned of concerns of famine in northern Gaza. And that's on top of now, sewage and sanitation concerns in the middle of the summer months here.

So, any aid that can get in is absolutely critical, especially as the U.S. built humanitarian pier is not functioning right now, because of heavy seas.

The question now, how effective will this be? As you point out, an Israeli official says that Netanyahu was not happy when he found out about this tactical pause and insisted that fighting in Rafah would continue, since it's the civilian leadership of the country that directs the military, first, you have to wonder where the order for the tactical pause came from. And second, you have to wonder if Netanyahu will fold under pressure from his far-right coalition partners and cancel this tactical pause moving forward. They have already criticized it.

So, we'll see how this unfolds, we'll see how much aid it's able to get in -- desperately needed aid it's able to get into Gaza, and these will be sort of critical things to watch here as the next few days unfold.

JIMENEZ: Oren Liebermann, appreciate the reporting as always. Thank you.

Coming up next, we're going to run the numbers with Harry Enten, as we approach CNN's presidential debate, their first face-to-face of the election cycle. We're going to go through some of the issues that are key for voters this cycle. Stay with us.

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[19:26:22]

JIMENEZ: Only 11 days until the first presidential debate right here on CNN, and that means the campaigns are kicking into high gear.

CNN's senior data reporter Harry Enten joins us now to run the numbers. Harry, all right, let's run some numbers. How is the campaign -- how do the campaigns look right now compared to four years ago?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: It's just so much of a different race, Omar. You know, Biden led wire to wire. Last go around at this particular point four years ago, he was up nearly 10 percentage points.

You are looking at where the polls are right now. And what you actually see is that Donald Trump has a slight advantage on average. And, of course, in the Electoral College, he has an even wire advantage.

So, just a vastly different race right now with Trump out in front compared to four years ago where Biden led wire to wire.

JIMENEZ: Yes. And look, last night. I mean, we've seen both of these campaigns in full swing last night. In particular, Trump challenged Biden to a cognitive test that got his White House doctor's name wrong while doing it. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think he should take a cognitive test like I did. I took a cognitive test, and I aced it. Doc Ronny, Dr. Ronny Johnson. Does everyone know Ronnie Johnson? Congressman from Texas. He was the White House doctor, and he said I was the healthiest president he feels in history. So, I liked him very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: Obviously, talking about Texas congressman, Dr. Ronny Jackson. But within the issue of cognition and cognitive ability that has been brought up with Trump, and in some cases with Biden as well, how do voters feel about that particular issue?

ENTEN: Yes, they feel that both of these guys are too old. You know, a lot of the commentary has so far been on Biden's age being too old. But the fact is, according to the voters, both of these guys are too old. Yes, a higher percentage believe that Biden is too old to be president than Trump. You see it on your screen there. 79 percent believe Biden is too old to be president.

But the fact of the matter is 54 percent, a majority believe Trump is too old too. So, voters would be very happy if we had two completely new guys, but the fact is they are stuck with two guys that they -- the majority, at least feel are too old. JIMENEZ: Well, Harry, look, I love when you come on. We obviously usually talk politics. But let's step outside politics and see what you got. We know you love baseball. Yesterday, Snoop Dogg threw a pretty good first pitch at the Brewers Game. How does his pitch compare to other celebrities?

ENTEN: Yes, he is much better than 50 Cent. I'll tell you that much. Who, I mean, one of the worst pitch -- first pitches I have ever freaking seen in my entire life.

But here is the deal. Here is the deal, Omar. The deal is that neither of them could throw a pitch as well as I can throw a pitch.

JIMENEZ: Oh.

ENTEN: Because back in -- back when I was in 10th grade, when I was in junior varsity, you know what I did?

JIMENEZ: What?

ENTEN: I do a perfect game. I do a perfect game. Now, as a five-inning perfect game, but the fact is, you put me up against Snoop Dogg and 50 Cent --

(CROSSTALK)

JIMENEZ: There it is.

ENTEN: Yes, Snoop Dogg is better than 50 Cent. But Enten better than either of them.

JIMENEZ: Wow. Look, for Harry Enten, 99 problems, but a pitch are not one. That's P. That's a-- that's a -- that's a P-pitch with a P. Harry Enten, with the W, as always, thanks.

We'll be back in a moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch the camera guys. Oh --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[19:34:14]

JIMENEZ: We want to take you back to Southern California now, where a wildfire is rapidly spreading as hundreds of firefighters fight high winds and as they tried to contain the dangerous flames.

Camila Bernal has been on this story throughout the day joining us now in Gorman, California, about an hour north of Los Angeles.

Give us the latest. What are you seeing? BERNAL: You know, 12,000 acres and still two percent containment, but you're seeing crews working around the clock doing everything they can on the ground and in the air. What we are seeing on the ground is some of the crews with the chainsaws and the shovels and the hand tools trying to clear some of the vegetation.

You are of course, seeing them use hoses and trying to put water on those hotspots here. You're seeing them also do some of the controlled burns. The crews just doing everything they can on the ground, but also communicating with the air resources.

[19:35:10]

So what we've seen throughout the day is just many, many helicopters coming to do those water drops and that's all again, in hopes of getting that containment percentage higher.

There are evacuation orders in place, about 1,200 people have been told to leave their homes and there are other under evacuation warnings.

So authorities here just telling people to be extremely careful, to have everything packed in case they have to go. The biggest concern is the wind, 45 to 55 mile per hour wind gusts right now throughout the day, but at night, they are even more concerned because they say that the wind gusts could go between 60 and 70 miles per hour. That can spread those flames very quickly.

So authorities just telling people to be extremely careful, especially during those overnight hours -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: Really a scary dynamic to keep an eye on as these crews work hard to get this contained.

Camila Bernal on the scene tonight, thank you.

For everyone else, we will be right back.

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[19:40:41]

JIMENEZ: CNN gained extraordinary access to facilities that some have called a breeding ground for the next generation of ISIS.

Five years after the fall of the terror group's so-called caliphate, over 50,000 ISIS suspects and their families are being held in more than two dozen prison and detention camps across Syria.

Now, officials warn those facilities are a major security threat that needs to be dealt with, but human rights groups described them as legal black holes.

CNN's Clarissa Ward has this exclusive look inside one of those detention centers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Cell phone videos of ISIS' brutal justice that the world hoped it would never see again.

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE speaking in foreign language)

WARD (voice over): Shared for the first time with CNN, these images weren't captured in Raqqa or Mosul in 2016, they were taken in 2022 in the Al-Hol Camp in Northern Syria, a sprawling dumping ground for the women and children captured after ISIS was defeated.

Five years after the fall of the caliphate, ISIS' ideology lives on here. Security officials warn it is a ticking time bomb, ungovernable and hostile to the outside world.

WARD (on camera): You can see just how vast this place is. More than 40,000 people are living here. And the most dangerous part of the camp is called The Annex. That's where some 6,000 foreign nationals are currently living.

WARD (voice over): We were granted exceptionally rare access to The Annex by the US-backed Syrian Democratic Forces, or SDF, who control the camp.

The women here hail from more than 60 different countries. Several raised their right index fingers for the cameras, a sign of solidarity with the Islamic State.

WARD (on camera): Do you regret your decision to join ISIS or?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, why should I regret this?

WARD (voice over): She complains that the conditions in the camp are awful.

WARD (on camera): There are people in the world who will say, you went to join ISIS, you deserve it, you deserve it. What do you say to that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Normally, even with enemies --

WARD: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- women and children need services.

WARD (voice over): The majority of Al-Hol's residents are kids who have ended up here through no fault of their own.

The UN has called it a blight on the conscience of humanity. It is effectively a prison camp where women and children are arbitrarily and indefinitely detained.

(CROSSTALK)

WARD: A group stops us with a frantic plea. One of their sons has been arrested trying to escape the camp.

WARD (on camera): She's asking if she can get her son back who's in a prison.

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE speaking in foreign language.)

WARD: He's 10 years old.

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE speaking in foreign language.)

WARD (voice over): "We wanted to send him out so the SDF wouldn't take him," she tells us. "Once boys turn 12 here, they take them."

It is a troubling story we hear over and over again. The SDF says it is their policy to separate adolescent boys because they are being radicalized by their mothers.

(SINGING)

WARD: An SDF raid earlier this year netted this video of a training session for children inside the camp.

The SDF claims young teenage boys are married off to repopulate the next generation of ISIS fighters, which they say may explain the roughly 60 births recorded here every month.

(CROSSTALK)

WARD: This is where some of those boys end up after they are taken, the Orkesh Rehabilitation Center.

Conditions here are much better than the camps, but there are only 150 beds and they are all full.

Shamil Chakar grew up in Cologne, Germany, until his parents took the family to the ISIS capital, Raqqa. A shrapnel injury to his head has left Shamil confused.

WARD (on camera): How old are you? (Speaking in foreign language)?

(SHAMIL CHAKAR speaking in foreign language)

[19:45:10]

WARD (voice over): (Speaking foreign language)? You don't know?

(SHAMIL CHAKAR speaking ins foreign language.)

WARD (voice over): Shamil was living in Al-Hol Camp with his mother and siblings until a few years ago when security forces came into their tent in the middle of the night.

(SHAMIL CHAKAR speaking in foreign language.)

WARD: "A man came and pulled me up and tied my hand behind my back. My mom was screaming. She said, 'Leave him alone,'" he tells us. "I didn't want to go with them. He pushed me saying, "Put on your shoes," but I didn't. Then he hit me."

Islam is from Dagestan, Russia, and is one of the youngest boys here.

WARD (on camera): (Speaking in foreign language)

(UNIDENTIFIED BOY speaking in foreign language)

WARD: So he's saying that he is just 12 years old. He has been here about three or four months. He was taken from his mother. He doesn't even know what his last name is.

WARD (voice over): Human rights organizations have said the separations are an appalling violation of international law.

But the SDF's top general, Mazloum Abdi, defends the policy.

GEN. MAZLOUM ABDI, COMMANDER, SYRIAN DEMOCRATIC FORCES (through translation): Instead of these organizations condemning what we are doing and calling it a human rights violation, these organizations should give us help when it comes to our program that we have in place for years now to rehabilitate these children.

WARD (on camera): But part of the problem seems to be that once these young boys turn 18, there's not anywhere for them to go, particularly if they can't return to their home countries. And so some of them, I believe, are ending up in prison.

ABDI (through translation): This is not a policy that we are following to put them in prison at 18. The reality is the goal is to reintegrate them with society.

WARD (voice over): But CNN has found that boys as young as 14 had been held here at the notorious Panorama Prison. With an estimated 4,000 inmates, it is the largest concentration of ISIS fighters in the world.

No journalist has been allowed inside Panorama since 2021 until now.

WARD (on camera): So the head of the prison has asked me to put on a head scarf. We will be walked through here because these are some of the most radicalized prisoners they have.

WARD (voice over): A senior US official told us the number one concern at Panorama is a prison break, a fear that was realized in 2022 when hundreds of inmates managed to escape.

WARD (on camera): Can I look inside?

WARD (voice over): Twenty-five men sit cross-legged in silence. The cell is spotless.

The men we see appear to be in decent physical condition, but tuberculosis is rampant in the prison and we are only allowed to look inside two cells.

WARD (on camera): Are you British? You are. Where are you from? WARD (voice over): A British man approaches the grate, but does not want to show his face.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been here for like five or six years. We don't know what's going on.

WARD (on camera): I know.

WARD (voice over): Advocacy groups called the US funded Panorama, a legal black hole, worse than Guantanamo Bay.

In an interrogation room, we meet 19-year-old Stephan Uterloo (ph) from Suriname. He tells us he was brought to the prison when he was 14, along with more than 100 other minors.

WARD (on camera): Have you had a lawyer ever? You talk to a lawyer?

STEPHAN UTERLOO, SURINAME RESIDENT: No.

I don't know about the big guys. But if you are speaking about kids, us in -- if you want to know the truth, we don't know even why we're always like punished. It is like five years in this prison and we're punished. We don't even know what we've done. Like we've been in prison because of our parents.

WARD (voice over): At the SDF intelligence headquarters, we met British Pakistani, Dr. Mohammed Sakhed (ph), accused of joining ISIS. He claims he was the victim of an elaborate kidnapping plot.

He says Panorama's inmates are abused.

DR. MOHAMMED SAKHED, SUSPECTED ISIS MEMBER: So we live in torture. I live in fear.

WARD: When you say you live in torture, do you mean that you are actually physically being tortured?

SAKHED: This happens on and off.

WARD: What kind of torture?

SAKHED: Like beating by the stick, by the guards. To be honest, I'm just waiting for my death. There's no getting out of this prison, probably never.

WARD (voice over): The warden at Panorama called Sakhed's claim of abuse false, saying, "All parts of the prison are monitored by cameras and no prison guard can act in this way."

The SDF and the US are pushing countries to repatriate their citizens from Syria, saying it is the only solution to this complex and dangerous situation.

But the process has been slow. And many, including Western allies, are dragging their feet.

In the Al-Roj camp, we meet Brits, Canadians, Belgians, Australians, and a couple of Americans.

HODA MUTHANA, US CITIZEN: We survive basically on --

WARD (voice over): Thirty-year-old Hoda Muthana has been stuck here with her seven-year-old son for more than five years.

WARD on camera: I have to ask you, I'm seeing all of the women here are fully covered. A lot of them covering their faces. You're not covered, you're wearing a t-shirt. Is that hard?

MUTHANA: It was hard when I first took it. I would say for the first two or three years. People were not accepting of it, you know, and they harassed us a lot. They stole our stuff. And I had to stay strong and show an example for my son.

WARD (voice over): Born and raised in the US, Hoda became radicalized online at the age of 20 and left her family in Alabama to live under ISIS, a decision she quickly regretted.

WARD (on camera): If you were to be able to go back to the US and you had to go on trial, potentially serve time in prison, have you reconciled yourself with that possibility?

MUTHANA: I always tell myself that going to prison would be a step forward in my life. If I had any time to serve, I'd serve it and I'd come out and begin my life with my son.

WARD (voice over): For now, that is not an option. While the US advocates repatriation, it ruled Hoda's US citizenship invalid on a technicality.

(CROSSTALK)

WARD (voice over): Now she lives in fear for her son's future.

WARD (on camera): What do you miss most about America?

MUTHANA: I just want to breathe American air and be around people. I love the people of America. They're very open and they're very forgiving and they're very -- they are people who give second chances, and I think if they were to sit down with me and listen to my story from the beginning, they would give me a second chance.

WARD (voice over): But second chances are hard to come by here. For most, repentance is demanded and forgiveness rarely given as the cost of ignoring this ugly crisis continues to mount.

Clarissa Ward, CNN, Northern Syria.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STEFAN UTERLOO, FROM SURINAME: No. I don't know about the big guys. If you speak to other kids, ask them, if you want to know the truth, you don't know even why we are always punished. It is like five years in this prison and we are punished.

We don't even know what we've done like, we've been in prison because of our parents.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[19:57:15]

JIMENEZ: A peek beyond the stars. On tonight's episode of "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper, astronomers using the James Webb telescope tell us how they hope to answer some of the most fundamental questions about the universe.

CNN's Kristin Fisher has a preview.

KRISTIN FISHER, CNN SPACE AND DEFENSE CORRESPONDENT: Omar, the Webb telescope is one of the most incredible things ever built. But it is really only as good as the scientists that get to use it.

And so for two years, we've been following around two scientific teams and these are scientists who have just become some of the very first to ever get to use the most powerful telescope ever built.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FISHER: The James Webb space telescope, unprecedented in science and scale.

DAN MILISAVLJEVIC, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, PHYSICS AND ASTRONOMY, PURDUE UNIVERSITY: This is effectively the best time machine that we've ever created.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: James Webb is revealing the cosmic story.

FISHER: Where do we come from? Are we alone in the universe? These are big questions.

BILL NELSON, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: Unlocking the secrets that we never knew.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well over 10,000 individuals, $10 billion.

FISHER: Behind schedule, over budget.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's thousands of ways this can go badly and one way it goes right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: James Webb begins a voyage back to the birth of the universe.

FISHER: And those other worldly images displayed on a cosmic tapestry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a historic moment of humanity and I feel we are super privilege that we can actually see this.

Hopefully, we will be able to see a reflection of ourselves and to learn more about where we came.

FISHER: Replacing our reality, a rekindling of childlike imagination. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are all astronomers -- as a kid, as an adult, you look up, he say, what's out there?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FISHER: And you can see one of the astronomers that we profiled there, Dan Milisavljevic, really getting choked up as he walked into Webb's mission control for the very first time.

You know, so much has been said about the telescope itself, the hardware, and of course it is an engineering marvel. So much has been said and seen about these amazing images that the Webb telescope has captured.

But what we wanted to do with this show is really capture the scientists and their stories who get to use this telescope because it is up to them to come up with the questions that the telescope is then going to help them try to answer and as we said, Omar, these are questions that really cut to the core of who we are and what this all means -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: All right, Kristin, thank you.

That new episode of "The Whole Story" with Anderson Cooper is coming up next here on CNN.

And thanks for being with me this evening. Obviously, it has been Father's Day, so to all my fathers out there, I hope it has been an incredible one for all of you and Happy Father's to my Dad and Grand Dad, answer the phone. I've been trying to get you the whole day before the show. So I am going to give you a call right after this.

For everyone else though, I'll see you next time. I'll see you next weekend about right the same time.

Have a great one.

[20:00:33]