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Wildfires Spread Across Part of West; Heat Wave Creating Dangerous Conditions Across U.S.; Putin Arrives in North Korea; Putin's Message to the West; Dr. Fauci Reveals What Happened After Correcting Trump at 2020 Briefing; Dr. Fauci Reflect on Career in a New Memoir. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired June 18, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[10:30:00]

MICHAEL MANN, AUTHOR, "OUR FRAGILE MOMENT", CLIMATE PROFESSOR AND CENTER FOR SCIENCE, SUSTAINABILITY AND THE MEDIA, UPENN: -- thing to experience is seeing your predictions come true, and that's what's happening.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: And how costly might this get for all of us in the years to come? Because, I mean, it's hard to imagine, you know, things getting worse than six days in a row above 95 degrees in places like Pittsburgh, or 20 inches of rain down in Florida, or these wildfires that are breaking out all across the west?

MANN: You know, as they say, there is no economy on a dead planet. And so, of course, you know, the more the planet warms up, the more of these devastating consequences, coastal inundation, these extreme weather events, impacts on human health, on national security. You know, we are dealing with an existential threat now.

If we fail to do something, then, you know, forget about the economy, there is no economy, as I said, on a dead planet. We will ultimately see, you know, a collapse of our entire societal infrastructure. It wasn't built for the levels of warmth that we will encounter in a matter of decades if we fail to reduce our carbon emissions.

ACOSTA: And FEMA says it's running out of money after disasters this year have cost the agency over $25 billion. We're heading into hurricane season.

MANN: Yes, that's right. One of the things that we're seeing now are these sort of coincident weather extremes where we're dealing with, again, the wildfires out west, the flooding down south, the extreme heat in the Midwest and the east, and that really taxes our resources. It's very difficult for us to deal with -- we just don't have the infrastructure to deal with multiple catastrophes playing out at the same time. And that's what we're starting to see. That's what we're seeing now early this summer.

ACOSTA: Yes, we're all looking at our weather apps on our phones and saying, my goodness, can you believe the temperatures this week? It really is just wild to see. Michael Mann, always great to have you on. We'll have you back again soon. Thanks for following this very important issue of the climate.

MANN: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: We really appreciate it. Good to see you.

Coming up, two of America's biggest adversaries face-to-face, Russian President Vladimir Putin heads to North Korea to meet with fellow autocrat Kim Jong Un. We'll talk about it next.

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[10:35:00]

ACOSTA: Today, Russia's Vladimir Putin is expected to land in North Korea ahead of his planned meeting with Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un, their second get together in less than a year. Pyongyang is rolling out the red carpet with Putin's portrait lining the streets. You can see it right there ahead of his first visit in more than two decades. He's expected to seek support for his war in Ukraine as the two leaders also look to strengthen the alliance that has Washington on alert.

Joining me now, retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton and former chief of CIA Russia operations Steve Hall. Colonel, I mean, that was some fascinating video we just saw a few moments ago of the Putin banners lining the streets of Pyongyang. This is a little weird.

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST AND U.S. AIR FORCE: It is. But when you go to countries like North Korea and Russia, they always pull out all the stops in order to greet a foreign leader of a like or similar ideology. And that that really, you know, kind of tells you all the things that you can see because there are so many aspects of, you know, how they run things that are very controlled, very tightly controlled.

And when you see what, you know, the North Koreans do with their immaculate streets in that particular part of the capital, they are putting out every single aspect in order to make Putin's limousine travel unencumbered through those main avenues.

ACOSTA: Yes. Steve, there's a real Potemkin village feel to all of this. Putin is expected to ask for more weapons. I guess he'll get them.

STEVE HALL, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST AND FORMER CIA CHIEF OF RUSSIA OPERATIONS: You know, it's amazing, Jim, how you know, the more things change, the more they stay the same, I guess. I mean, who thought that we would have been in a situation where a former superpower like Russia, used to be the Soviet Union, has to essentially go sort of begging, to try to barter with North Korea to get more weapons to support their continued invasion of Ukraine. I mean, it's just pretty amazing.

But the bottom line is that Putin is going more than just for, you know, to try to get weapons and other assistance from North Korea. He's also building this anti-democratic coalition that we're seeing coming out worldwide with, you know, countries like Iran, North Korea, and all these other places. So, yes, he's sort of got a two-pronged mission here.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, how times have changed for Vladimir Putin. I mean, I'm old enough to remember when he was in the G8. I mean, you know this is really kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel. And, Colonel, what does North Korea get out of this?

LEIGHTON: So, one of the key things, Jim, that they get out of this is connection to another country. They get the possibility of having a place where they can actually deliver some exports, but they also get something where they get a lot from the Russians in return. Most importantly, technology, especially for their space and missile program, and that's the kind of thing that we can expect.

We can also expect them to perhaps work together in the cyber area. Both the North Koreans and the Russians have very good offensive cyber capabilities. The Russians are, of course, far ahead in that area, but the North Koreans aren't too bad. Remember the Sony hack? And they are basically countries that are now on the other side of the global international financial system, and that will allow them to kind of flock together in this sense and create a -- the beginnings of an economic block along with China that may not directly challenge everything that we do in the west, but it gives them the capability of at least surviving with each other. And that's how they see that.

ACOSTA: Yes. Steve, I mean, it is becoming a real symbiotic relationship here, and it's -- their economies are kind of built on just being sort of a menace to the rest of the world. But I mean, does this help Russia at all in Ukraine?

[10:40:00]

HALL: I mean, it could if the North Koreans continue to supply the sort of weapons, you know, and other underpinnings that they need to continue their war effort. But you know what I was saying earlier about, you know, things staying the same, you know, we all remember, all of us who've been around long enough, you know, the Cold War where it was the Soviets against western democracies.

Now, it's simply transitioned into something that looks a little bit different. Western democracies against these autocratic countries. And then, you still have what used to be called the, the Non-Aligned Movement. Now, we call it sort of the Global South of these countries that are trying to figure, OK, are we going to go with the democracies or are we going to go with the North Koreas of the world?

Clearly, North Korea has made up its mind who it's going to fall in with because they really don't have any choice. Russia is the closest thing that they can get in terms of a partner for where they see the world going forward.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, Colonel, this follows yesterday's meeting between the president and the NATO secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg. And Stoltenberg raised this issue of "authoritarian powers" like Russia, China, North Korea, all -- with Iran. Iran aligning in this challenge to the west. How serious of a security issue is that? And shouldn't this be a bigger issue in this presidential campaign? We just don't talk about it as much as we should.

LEIGHTON: I think we should -- yes, I agree, Jim. I think one of the key elements here is that we're seeing the formation of an authoritarian bloc. Now, history has some examples, you know, you look at the axis powers during World War II, you know, Germany, Italy, and then Japan coming together. And that's the kind of thing that we see with Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran. Those countries have a very core -- very much core interest in many cases, and they also are responsible for what amount to violations of the nuclear nonproliferation regime that had been established in the wake of the Cold War. That regime is gone.

And we know that, you know, North Korea has nuclear weapons. We know that the North Koreans and the Iranians have been working together on nuclear issues and other military issues. So, that's the kind of thing that is a significant security issue, not only for this decade, but probably for the century.

ACOSTA: Yes. I mean, Steve, a real contrast between the two candidates in this race too, I mean, obviously Trump is offering a very different vision dealing with these countries.

HALL: Yes. No, absolutely. And I -- yes, I agree with both of you. I mean, we should be talking about this more because this is critical to us national security and the fact that one of the candidates, Donald Trump, has already essentially said, look, I'm going to downplay NATO. I'm not even sure it should exist. I don't really care if an enemy of NATO attacks, you know, a non -- you know, a non-paying member of -- or, you know, paying less than the 2 percent.

So, it's -- you know, it's everything that NATO's antagonists want to hear. It's everything that Vladimir Putin and the Chinese and North Koreans want to hear coming out of Donald Trump.

The good news I think is, is that NATO leaders or leaders of NATO countries are trying to essentially Trump-proof NATO and other parts of the post-World War II security structure. We even saw by President Biden doing this when he tried to do the 10-year -- you know, the 10- year deal with Ukraine. So, there are some moves in that direction, which, you know, leaves us, I guess, some hope in that regard.

ACOSTA: All right. Colonel Leighton, Steve Hall, thanks very much. Really appreciate it. We'll be right back.

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ACOSTA: New this morning, Dr. Anthony Fauci is reflecting on his remarkable career in a new memoir, "On Call: A Doctor's Journey in Public Service." Fauci recently sat down with CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta and talked about his interactions with then-President Trump during the COVID pandemic.

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MIKE PENCE, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: So, let me recognize Dr. Tony Fauci for an update on where we stand recommendations and guidance.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is a name that is almost synonymous with the COVID-19 pandemic, for better or worse.

CROWD: Fire Fauci. Fire Fauci.

DR. GUPTA: But this wasn't the first time he had to face down a global pandemic.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: With regard to drug development, the steps are simple, although the goal is an ominous goal.

DR. GUPTA (voice-over): I sat down with Dr. Anthony Fauci to talk about his new memoir, "On Call: A Doctor's Journey in Public Service," where he writes about a life and a legacy that has spanned seven presidents and more than 50 years.

DR. GUPTA: Illegitimi non carborundum.

DR. FAUCI: Right, which means don't let the bastards weigh you down. Which is actually goes -- lately that is a very relevant and appropriate saying.

DR. GUPTA: When you say this phrase to yourself, are you able to not let these guys get you down?

DR. FAUCI: You know, the answer is, they don't get me down to the point of interfering with what my work is. But it does wear and tear on you. I mean, knowing that there are people who are just hell-bent on trying to discredit you and they have no evidence about anything and all you've done all your life, your professional life. For me, 54 years and almost 40 years as director, have done nothing but try to save lives.

DR. GUPTA (voice-over): His journey to save lives started when he attended medical school at Cornell, then made the pivotal decision to join the National Institutes of Health, where he quickly rose through the ranks and focused on infectious disease.

But there came a moment, July, 1981, that would change everything. He was reviewing the CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, the MMWR, when he noticed a concerning spike in deaths. 26 young, otherwise healthy, gay men.

DR. FAUCI: Reading that MMWR totally transformed my professional career because I made the decision right there. I said, if there's one disease that I have to study, it's this disease.

DR. GUPTA (voice-over): HIV/AIDS became his whole life. And he was one of the first to recognize the extent of the AIDS crisis.

DR. FAUCI: In some respects, we're seeing an increase in what we would call the heterosexual spread of the disease.

[10:50:00]

DR. GUPTA: I don't think many people who sort of know you from COVID realize that, in many ways, you went through some of these same challenges before with HIV/AIDS, not just new disease, trying to find new therapeutics, but the activists. What was that part of your life like?

DR. FAUCI: It is as different as peanuts and watermelons. I mean, it just is very different because the activists were trying to get the attention of the authorities, the scientific authorities and the regulatory authorities, that the time proven way of approaching the development of interventions for a new disease doesn't work well for a disease that's rapidly killing themselves and their friends and their loved ones.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The whole thing with the National Institutes of Health is they won't test any of these drugs that'll keep people alive. And I got this saying, no Peptide T, no Compound Q, Anthony Fauci, I piss on you.

DR. GUPTA: And I said to myself, if I were in their shoes, I would be doing exactly what they're doing. That's when I invited them in to sit down with us and say, let's start talking. To the point now where they're on all of our advisory committees. They're part of the discussion. So, their confrontation to us was based on a good thing.

You know, I think back to John Lewis' good trouble versus bad trouble. They made good trouble. My interaction and my response to them, as I often get asked, is dramatically different than someone on the basis of no evidence accuses you of killing people or that scene of Marjorie Taylor Greene at the hearing.

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Do the American people deserve to be abused like that, Mr. Fauci? Because you're not doctor.

DR. FAUCI: I mean, come on. That is nothing like what the activists were doing.

DR. GUPTA: You wrote in the book there, and this gets to this point, that you have to function in a world that overlaps politics and science. Is part of this politics as well just getting the right message out?

DR. GUPTA: I think overall, you've got to admit without a doubt, vaccine saves hundreds of thousands of lives, maybe millions in the United States and multiples of millions globally, no doubt about that. But when you mandate something, given the psyche of the country and the fact that when you tell somebody they need to do something, the way the country is divided now that you might have a collateral effect, unintended that would have people push back on getting vaccinated. So, that needs to be re-examined now. DR. GUPTA: You talk about this interesting press briefing that you did. This is in March of 2000. And you had to correct the record even if the president was talking. How challenging is it?

DR. FAUCI: I said to myself, I have a responsibility to preserve my own personal integrity and a responsibility to the American public. So, when I walked up to the podium, I said, here it goes, Dr. Fauci, the president just said that hydroxychloroquine is, you know, the end all.

The answer is, is no, and the evidence that you're talking about, John, is anecdotal evidence.

That was painful to me to have to do that, but there was no doubt that I had to do it. I mean, it wasn't like, well, maybe you shouldn't, maybe you should. There was no doubt that I had to do it.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, thank you very much.

DR. GUPTA (voice-over): He thought President Trump would be angry. But listen to what happened behind the scenes.

DR. FAUCI: But then he called me in his office once and he wanted to ask me another question. And he was on -- looking at three different televisions. And he says, my God, these ratings are amazing. They're better than cable. They're better than network.

The president, it's no secret, I'm not divulging a secret about the president, he was very, very fixated on image and ratings. And he thought that the amount of attention that was given to the press briefings was really terrific. And his comment was, wow, do you see those ratings? And my feeling was ratings? We're in the middle of a pandemic, but what are we talking about ratings?

DR. GUPTA (voice-over): Nowadays, since stepping back from the NIH, Fauci has been focusing more on family, but has yet to give up on his life's mission of saving lives. He is now a distinguished professor at Georgetown.

DR. FAUCI: When I take life on a daily basis and try and enjoy aspects of life every single day and take really serious relationships, particularly, you know, my relationship with Christine is -- I just think is something that I value immensely because she really keeps me on the track.

DR. GUPTA: And you're a grandfather now.

DR. FAUCI: I am.

[10:55:00]

DR. GUPTA: How's grandfather life?

DR. FAUCI: It's a feeling that people forever have described to me. Oh, wait until you become a grandfather. It's going to be absolutely amazing. But you don't really understand what that means until you have this little kid who's the daughter of your daughter, you know, sitting down in your lap, playing with your eyeglasses or with your nose. It's amazing.

DR. GUPTA: Are you ever going to retire?

DR. FAUCI: You know, Sanjay, that's a good question. Right now. You know, I may be 83, but I feel like I'm 55, you know. So, I -- to me, I don't see any end to it. But I do know that I think I have enough realism about myself. I mean, the people who throw darts at me, you know, think badly of me, but I'm fundamentally a pretty humble person. And I know and can evaluate my limitations.

And I can tell you when I feel I'm not able to leave it all on the court, then I'll walk off the court.

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ACOSTA: And to hear even more of Sanjay's interview with Dr. Fauci, go listen to "Chasing Life," wherever you get your podcasts. And thank you so much for Sanjay for that report.

And thank you for joining us this morning. I'm Jim Acosta. Our next hour of "Newsroom with Wolf Blitzer" starts after a short break. Have a great day.

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