Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Interview With Former Israeli Ambassador to the United States Michael Oren; Louisiana Requires Ten Commandments Display in Schools; Deadly Wildfires in New Mexico; Biden, Trump Prepare For CNN Debate. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired June 20, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:03]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: All right, you are live in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin with the race for the White House. There's only one week left until the first presidential debate of the 2024 campaign season, happening right here on CNN. And President Biden and Donald Trump are taking starkly different approaches to prepare.

Tonight, Biden heading to Camp David with some of his most trusted aides for days of intensive talks and mock debates. Trump, meanwhile, is opting to hold informal policy discussions, as they're described, with some of his top allies.

Let's discuss now more with CNN senior political commentator former special adviser to President Obama Van Jones and CNN legal commentator and former Trump White House lawyer Jim Schultz.

Van, guys, good morning.

Let me start with you first, Van. What do you think Biden needs to do first and foremost in this debate?

VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, if you're Joe Biden, you have got a hill to climb here.

The reality is, he is behind in most polls. The momentum is not with him yet. And so I think you have got to reassure the American people that he is the commander in chief and that he has command of the situation when it comes especially to the economy. That's where he is struggling the most.

And so, number one, the contrast is going to be very clear. Joe Biden's going to have a lot of facts, and you expect Donald Trump to have a lot of insults. So you already know that. That's already kind of baked in. The entertainment factor is going to be on the other side.

But for Americans who are looking for help, who are looking for hope, who want to understand, how is my life going to get better, I think Joe Biden has a case to make about what he's already been able to do. Inflation is coming down. Unemployment is low. The stock market is strong. Prices are too high.

If he focuses on that, what he's doing on prices, he at least begins to get at audience and a chance to move forward.

ACOSTA: Yes, Jim, I mean, there's been some talk as to whether, if President Biden brings up Donald Trump's felony conviction, will Donald Trump bring up the Hunter Biden situation? What's your sense of it? How do you think he should handle that?

JIM SCHULTZ, CNN LEGAL COMMENTATOR: I think the answer to both of those is, yes, absolutely. Those things have been front and center in the news. I fully expect that Joe Biden is going to bring up that felony conviction. I fully expect that Donald Trump is going to retort with the Hunter Biden issues, no question about it.

What Donald Trump needs to do is focus on the fact that prices are too high. Focus on the fact that families are struggling. Focus on the things that Americans care about, the issues at the border, which are so vitally important. You have this problem with fentanyl moving its way into this country.

We're seeing it even in Pennsylvania, where I live. If he focuses on the issues, he could come away from this debate even further ahead than he is now. If he focuses on the nonsense, then he's going to be in trouble.

But I do think, look, he's Donald Trump. There's no doubt about it. He's going to take his shots. There is going to be some entertainment value that comes out of this. But he needs to focus on the issues, because, right now, Joe Biden is not perceived as strong and Donald Trump has the issues on his side for the most part.

ACOSTA: Van, what do you think about that? What should happen if these court cases come up?

JONES: Yes.

Well, listen, I think it's clear. I agree 100 percent with what was just said. There's a character question here. And Donald Trump's character is the main problem. And it's not just he's a mean guy, he's a rude guy. It's not just that he's an insurrectionist and he's not -- it's that he is putting everything that we know and love at risk here and abroad.

And Joe Biden has to remind people this is not a reality TV show. This is not wrestling. This is not -- this is literally the future of the free world on the line. And would you want somebody who would be thrown out of class as a class clown before 8:30 a.m. to be in charge of all this stuff again? We barely made it through the last time.

So Joe Biden has to get sober. The sillier Donald Trump gets, the more sober Biden has to get, because he's appealing to a very small number of people. Most people have already made up their mind. People are just coming with their popcorn to see the theatrics.

ACOSTA: Yes. JONES: But there are people out there who really do not know how we're going to get out of the situation. And Biden has to focus on them like a laser. He has better ideas and a better track record across the board. He's got to be able to convey that and not get thrown off by the shenanigans and the, as he would say, malarkey.

ACOSTA: Yes.

And, Jim, I mean, one of the things that I have been wondering about is this mic-muting issue and how Trump is going to handle that, because he -- I covered him over at the White House, out on the campaign trail. I don't know. Has there ever been a time when his mic has been cut off in a situation like this, where the stakes are this high?

I suspect he will just keep talking even if the mic has been muted.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: Look, he's going to blow right through that. Yes, I think he blows right through that stop sign, right?

So -- and the more they try to mute him...

(CROSSTALK)

ACOSTA: The other mic might pick him up.

SCHULTZ: Yes.

I said, the more they try to mute him, the more problems they're going to have, right?

[11:05:01]

ACOSTA: Yes.

SCHULTZ: Because, if they try to mute him, then he goes out and carries a message afterwards that they're trying to keep the American people from hearing what he has to say.

ACOSTA: Yes, Van, what do you think?

JONES: Well, look, in some ways, I'm glad that his mic's going to be muted, because we had that one -- this car crash of a debate where Biden could barely finish a sentence. He finally just said, oh, would you just shut up?

ACOSTA: Right.

JONES: I mean, it was literally class clown antics.

So, in some ways, it's good for the American people that you might actually get a chance to hear Biden. But at the same time, that debate actually helped Biden a lot, because you could hear what a disrespectful, unhinged maniac Trump can be. And it actually wound up helping Biden.

When Trump was more restrained in the next debate, the second debate, it actually went more to Trump's favor. So, in some ways, you're protecting the American people, but you're also in some ways giving -- shielding Trump from himself in a way that might hurt Biden. We will see how it goes.

ACOSTA: Yes.

JONES: But I'm going to tell you what. Trump is going to talk the whole time, microphone, no microphone.

ACOSTA: Exactly.

JONES: You could put him in a trash can. He's not going to be quiet.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHULTZ: And, look, you can't have two grumpy old men screaming at one another, right?

ACOSTA: Yes.

SCHULTZ: And that's -- the American people don't want to hear that. They want to hear about the issues. And they don't want to hear the yelling back and forth.

ACOSTA: Yes, it might remind people of Thanksgiving dinner.

But, Jim, one of the things I wanted to ask you about is the lowering of expectations and the wisdom behind that, because out on the campaign trail, you hear Trump going after Biden and his mental acuity and so on. You hear his allies on FOX and other places say Biden's not up to the job anymore.

And so what if Biden comes out and has a State of the Union-type performance? Does that make sense for Trump and his allies to lower expectations that much for the president?

SCHULTZ: There is just so much fodder where the president, the current president, had so many missteps, where he does look incompetent, where he has fumbled his words...

ACOSTA: Yes.

SCHULTZ: ... where he does look like the game has passed him.

ACOSTA: Are you talking about Biden or Trump?

SCHULTZ: So, I don't think he can fix -- no, I think you're talking about Biden.

ACOSTA: Ah, OK.

SCHULTZ: And I think -- you know, I think Trump's team has been seizing on that, right? And I think they have been doing it effectively.

One debate isn't going to make a difference on that. There's just too much out there in terms of social media, the television, the -- any of the videos, everything that's been captured of him walking off stage lost. Like, that's in people's minds and they're worried about it.

ACOSTA: Right, but I guess my question is, you keep saying that over and over again and the president doesn't do that during the debate in front of 70 million people, maybe that strategy isn't such a good strategy.

SCHULTZ: It might help. It might help.

But I think there's just so much out there. I don't think there's any turning back on that.

ACOSTA: Van?

JONES: Well, I just want to say that I do think it's to Biden's advantage, because they keep acting like he's going to walk out there and fall asleep or fall over.

And so just the fact that he's not going to do that, he is sharp on policy -- the big challenge that any sitting president has -- and, remember, Obama had that problem in 2012 -- when you're president, you have a pretty big job every day. You have a lot to do. You have a lot to manage. And most of the people you're talking to are people who are reporting to you.

It's unusual when you're president for somebody come and just punch you in the head. And so remember the first Romney-Obama debate in Colorado?

ACOSTA: Right.

JONES: Obama, he didn't have the moves. He didn't have that Muhammad Ali shuffle. He wasn't really Obama. He was this guy who had been in the Oval Office for four years. And Romney cleaned his clock.

Now, Obama came back the next time and set the record straight, but Biden's got two things working against him. One is, the momentum is not there with him, but also he's got a full-time job. All Trump's got to do is sit up in court, not fall asleep, and then go out there and say mean stuff about Biden.

When you have a full-time job as demanding as the presidency, and then have to turn on a dime and spend an hour-and-a-half arguing with somebody who has no responsibilities, that is a tough mental turn for anybody, even a young guy like Obama. So we're going to see.

But if Biden pulls that off, I think it will be impressive for that narrow slice of people who haven't already made up their mind.

ACOSTA: And, Van, how big of a moment is this for the president? I mean, I talk to folks in the Biden world, Democratic Party, and they say this is a hugely important moment for the president. JONES: This is the entire election, as far as I'm concerned. The

entire world will be watching.

There -- if you are a carbon-based life form, you're going to be watching. If you have got a functioning brain stem, you're going to be watching, because, if Biden goes out there and messes up, it's game over. If he walks out there and a week later he's lower in the polls, it's panic in the party.

But if he goes in there and he can handle himself against Donald Trump, a runaway train, a locomotive, a raging bull, then this guy deserves another shot to be president, because that is tough. You couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. If you can stand toe to toe with a runaway train like Donald Trump for an hour-and-a-half, you are fit to be president, period, point blank.

[11:10:08]

This is the whole presidency in a bottle in a week.

ACOSTA: And, Jim, I mean, same question. Big moment for Donald Trump too.

I mean, he's been raising expectations about his debate performance. And then what if he has a bad night, an off-night, a senior moment?

SCHULTZ: He needs to have a good night. He has to have a good night on the policy issues. He needs, to the extent he can, stay out of the gutter as much as he can, because, look, the issues are on his side. He has the momentum now.

It's his race to lose at this point in many ways. And Van has just about admitted that here, that the momentum is in his favor. And he's going to have to do -- Joe Biden's going to have -- President Biden is going to have to do something dramatic to convince people that he has the mental acuity to last four more years in that office and lead this country.

ACOSTA: All right, Van and Jim, we will be watching.

As Van said, anybody with a functioning brain stem, I think is how Van -- we will put -- we will cut that and put it in the promo. That was excellent work there, Van.

(LAUGHTER)

ACOSTA: Van and Jim, thanks very much. Really appreciate it.

We're just one week from the first presidential debate of the year hosted by CNN. Don't miss President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump going head to head on June 27 at 9:00 p.m. right here on CNN.

Coming up: Deadly wildfires in New Mexico have claimed at least two lives and hundreds of homes. We will take you live to the fire zone next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:16:11]

ACOSTA: From severe floods to wildfires, multiple states right now are getting hit by extreme weather. Just look at this new drone video out of Surfside, Texas, this morning. Look at that flooding there. neighborhoods there just completely covered in water, all of this stemming from Alberto that made landfall as a tropical storm in Mexico just hours ago.

In New Mexico, areas burned by wildfires are now at risk of flash floods with more rain on the way. Also on our radar, the dangerous heat wave that won't let up. It's putting around 80 million people at risk across the Midwest and Northeast.

Staying on all of this for us. CNN's Rosa Flores joins me live from Corpus Christi, Texas, and Ed Lavandera is in Lincoln County, New Mexico.

Rosa, to you first.

I mean, it's pretty wild, Rosa, that this storm made landfall in Mexico, and yet you saw all of this flooding in parts of Texas. What can you tell us?

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And, Jim, the waters continue to rise. Just look around me. You will see in this hotel that the water has risen in the last few hours.

You can see those cars have several inches of rain. And the building, of course, is on pilings. That's normal construction in these areas because they are used to coastal waters rising. But take a look around. All of the streets around us are completely inundated.

I can tell you about an hour-and-a-half ago, I would have been standing on dryish water. And look now. There's definitely multiple inches of rain. And you can see that people have been trying to drive around and they have not been successful.

This man in this red car is stuck now in the mud. Where is this water coming from? Take a look back here. This is Corpus Christi Bay. Normally, it's a beautiful beach. Families would be enjoying the beach right now. But, instead, the bay has eaten these streets. It has eaten the parking lot.

I mean, this is completely inundated with water. My team and I have been here since about 5:00 a.m. this morning. We were able to drive through these waters. We can't do it anymore. But you can see, as you look around, I mean, all of these streets are completely flooded in water.

And now there's a man that's stuck back here. I'm not sure if we can move the camera over here. But just look at those trucks trying to get access to these roads and then getting stuck. And, Jim, these scenes are being multiplied across the Texas Gulf

Coast. I know you showed that dramatic video from Surfside Beach, Texas. I talked to EMS there. They say that they're expecting six-foot swells, Jim. So just imagine those folks trying to make sure that everybody there is safe -- Jim, back to you.

ACOSTA: That is wild. Well, there's going to be a huge cleanup effort there for days to come where you are, Rosa. Thank you.

And, Ed, how are things where you are?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it looks like they're starting to get the upper hand or possibly will be able to get the upper hand on this wildfire here in Ruidoso, New Mexico, in the coming hours, because that cloud cover you see behind me has brought a great deal of rain overnight and this morning.

And one local fire official says that has really helped dramatically in stopping the spread of this massive wildfire near Ruidoso. There's actually two massive wildfires that we have been reporting on since Monday that have burned more than 23,000 acres, forcing more than 8,000 people to evacuate their homes.

We were in Ruidoso yesterday. It's essentially a smoke-filled ghost town from what we saw yesterday. But there have also been tragic stories of two people dying trying to escape these fires. The latest, we're told, was a victim that was found in their car, presumably trying to escape the wildfires.

And we also learned about Patrick Pearson who died because he wasn't able to evacuate. His family said that he had recently broken his leg and wasn't able to drive. He was found near the Swiss Chalet, a hotel near -- on the northern edge of Ruidoso.

[11:20:14]

And his family talked about just how tragic and painful this moment has been for them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZACH PEARSON, SON OF FIRE VICTIM: He was trying to get away from the fire as fast as he could, but with a broken leg and a brace, using a walker, trying to carry what you could.

It's heartbreaking to know that he didn't make it, to know that he was trying to run for his life, trying to get away from the fire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Jim, so as firefighters continue working here, the good news is that perhaps the change in the weather bringing that much- needed rain, but it's also causing other problems, flash flooding and mudslides in there making it also very dangerous for those firefighters working in the canyons and the mountainous areas where these wildfires are -- Jim. ACOSTA: Very dangerous, indeed.

All right, Ed Lavandera, thank you so much.

This morning, growing outrage and promises of lawsuits after Louisiana's governor signed a law requiring the Ten Commandments be displayed in every single public school classroom in the state.

CNN's Isabel Rosales has more details on this.

Isabel, what can you tell us?

ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, supporters of this new Ten Commandments law, they're very adamant that, yes, this is a religious document, but it also has historical and legal significance here.

The governor says that it will bring about respect of the rule of law into the school system, and the author of the bill saying that they need to return a moral code back into the classrooms. Now, critics of it, opponents say it's flat out unconstitutional, a violation of the Establishment Clause in the Constitution by essentially promoting one religion over another.

Now, we did see Kentucky try this, a similar directive, that the nation's highest court struck down, saying it was unconstitutional, but that was back in 1980. And we have a very different Supreme Court now in play.

The exact language here is mandated, a specific version of the Ten Commandments spelled out in the bill language. It also mandates a poster size display of the Ten Commandments in large, easily readable font to be displayed in all public classrooms that's from kindergarten up until state-funded universities.

The Republican governor, Jeff Landry, says that this is one of his favorite bills regarding education that he signed. He also says this: "If you want to respect the rule of law, you got to start from the original law given, which was Moses. He got his commandments from God."

Now, we spoke to a Louisiana mom and an educator who ran for Congress back in 2022. She flat-out disagrees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIA LEBRUN, LOUISIANA EDUCATOR AND MOM: I think if a poster could cure what ails schools, that would have been done a long time ago. We all had posters up of rules. Keep your hands and feet to yourself. Respect each other. Be kind.

Those things are all over the walls already, and, somehow, we are still 47th in education.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ROSALES: And four civil groups are suing, including the ACLU, saying that, hey, students are captive audiences here. They're going to be forced to listen to a school-sponsored religious message.

Now, according to this law, unless this challenge goes through, classrooms must display the Ten Commandments by January of next year -- Jim.

ACOSTA: All right, Isabel Rosales, thank you very much.

Coming up: It appears tensions are escalating further between Israel and Iran-backed Hezbollah. We will have a live report from the region in just a few moments.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:28:33]

ACOSTA: In the Middle East, tensions are escalating between Israel and the militant group Hezbollah.

The exchange of rockets across Israel-Lebanon border has been intensifying in recent weeks. And just a few days ago, Israel warned that a four -- a full-scale war could break out. Now Hezbollah's leader has issued a new threat. He says that, if war breaks out, he will target the European island of Cyprus if it aides Israeli soldiers.

Joining me now is Michael Oren, a former Israeli ambassador to the U.S.

Mr. Ambassador, thanks, as always, for being with us.

It seems like kind of a -- maybe an odd thing for Americans to hear, and perhaps you can shed some light on this. Your reaction to Hezbollah threatening to attack Cyprus, of all places.

MICHAEL OREN, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED STATES: Jim, it's not shocking at all.

Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. It operates from around the world. It operates in South America, in Europe, and why wouldn't it attack Cyprus?

ACOSTA: Yes.

OREN: And it -- the grounds for which Hassan Nasrallah threatened Cyprus was the specious claim that Cyprus is providing electricity to Israel, which in fact it does not, and the Cypriot government was very express by saying, we don't actually do this.

But this is Hezbollah. And I'm really delighted that CNN is covering this issue.

ACOSTA: Yes.

OREN: It has been the top issue in Israel now for weeks. It's about 80,000 Israelis that have been left homeless for more than eight months now. The entire northern part of the country has been rendered uninhabitable by Hezbollah rocket and drone fire.

And about -- the equivalent of about 10,000 football fields of cultivable land has been set on fire by Hezbollah.

[11:30:00]