Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Just 5 Days Until Biden & Trump Face Off In CNN Debate; Gaza Officials: At Least 52 Killed Or Missing Following Airstrikes; U.S. Assures Israel It Would Back Its Ally In Event Of A Full-Blown War With Hezbollah; More Than 100 Million Under Extreme Heat Alert; Prosecutors' Notes On Jurors Upend Dozens Of Convictions; Biden And Trump Prepare For CNN Presidential Debate. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired June 22, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:47]

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN HOST: Hi, everyone. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Omar Jimenez in Washington.

We are just five days away, people, from the first presidential debate of 2024. And today, we're seeing a pretty stark difference between incumbent President Joe Biden and his Republican challenger, former President Donald Trump, as the two men prepare for this high-stakes faceoff.

While Biden is holding intense meeting with a closed group of advisors at Camp David, Trump is skipping the traditional route for now and is instead hitting the campaign trail.

Here he is just a few hours ago at an event in Washington, rallying his supporters for the big showdown with Biden.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Nobody is going to be watching the debate on Thursday night, right? Nobody? Will anybody be watching?

CROWD: Yes!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: CNN's Steve Contorno will be watching him in person soon live in Philadelphia where Trump is expected to hold a campaign rally in just a few hours.

So, Steve, can you tell us a little bit more about the Trump campaign strategy going into Thursday's debate? Obviously, he's busy today.

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN POLITICS REPORTER: Yeah, Omar, no cram sessions today for former President Trump. He's not holding mock debate sessions either. Instead, he has hit the campaign trail. He'll be joining me in Philadelphia in a few hours right behind me.

And earlier today, he spoke with a Christian conservative audience in Washington, D.C., and there he talked about what he did for them to get this -- his antiabortion justices on the Supreme Court. He said he has wounds all over from fighting for religious liberty. And he said the right to freedom of worship does not end at the door of public schools.

Take a listen to what he told this crowd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Answer to the bureaucrats in Washington. We answer to God in heaven.

Who likes to Ten Commandments, by the way, going up in the school?

But Christians cannot afford to sit on the sidelines. If Joe Biden gets back in, Christianity will not be safe.

We have also achieved what the pro-life movement fought to get for 49 years, and we've gotten abortion out of the federal government.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CONTORNO: Trump came out in support today of that controversial Louisiana law that will require all public schools display the Ten Commandments. Part of his outreach to this question conservative audience where he told them, look, you don't have to vote for me four years from now, you need a vote for me now, sort of saying like this is the time in place to get active. He was concerned that Christians have not been getting out to vote in recent elections, and it's time for them to step up for him this election cycle.

JIMENEZ: And, Steve, I want to asked you about another aspect in the Trump world that we're following because it sounds like the Trump team is narrowing their search for a potential VP. I know we've heard that a decision Iran is likely by the time we get to the convention next month. But who are the top contenders right now?

CONTORNO: Three names have emerged as top contenders at this point. It's Senator J.D. Vance of Ohio, Senator Marco Rubio of Florida, and North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum. All three have been vetted at this point, have been going through the process of getting vetted and have -- his advisers are coming up with pros and con list for each.

What's interesting, though, is that we've also learned that there are influential backers for all of these individuals as well, who are trying to get in Trump's ear as he makes this key decision.

It's been broken down by this: J.D. Vance has the support of some of the far right figures and influential figures in Trump's orbit such as Don Jr., his son, Steve Bannon, his former adviser, as well as Tucker Carlson.

Whereas Rubio has support from some of the donor class and Sean Hannity, Kellyanne Conway, his former adviser.

Meanwhile, Doug Burgum, he has a lot of fans in News Corp and Rupert Murdoch's kingdom. He's been pushing Burgum's name in a lot of -- a lot of his publications lately.

JIMENEZ: Yeah. It'd be interesting to see how that field narrows and to see what happens later tonight in Philly. But Steve Contorno will be there for us to keep an eye on it -- on it all. Thanks so much.

All right. Now, while Trump hits the campaign trail on Pennsylvania, sources tell us President Biden is poring over binders, going over possible scenarios, holding mock debates as he huddles with a close team of advisors at Camp David.

[16:05:05]

CNN senior White House reporter Kevin Liptak is here in studio with me to talk a little bit more about how the president is preparing here.

That's not to say he also has not been busy over recent weeks, but what do we know about how he's preparing ahead of this debate this weekend?

KEVIN LIPTAKE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, he has been busy and advisers do point that out when you're in the -- when you're the incumbent, you always have to balance being president with being a candidate and that has been something that President Biden has been balancing, too. But he is now on day two out of Camp David debate camp out in the mountains, and what we understand is that this was going to begin somewhat informally. Advisers have prepared these binders for the president to go through.

What they're doing is trying to crystallize some of the policy differences between himself and President Trump, and really trying to hone how he's going to describe those on the debate stage. So they have some answers, they have some potential questions. They want to talk about how they're going to respond.

But they are also preparing for attacks from President Trump, on president's policies, yes. But also on members of his family, on his fitness for office, basically, they want to be ready for anything that Trump can throw at them on the debate stage.

This is eventually going to culminate into some mock debates that the president is going to undergo later in the week, and it's been interesting because we've heard from the person who actually played President Trump during President Biden's preparations back in 2020. His name is Bob Bauer. He's the president's personal attorney and what he's been saying is he doesn't necessarily do a full impersonation of Trump. It's more of a character study.

And one of the things that he's really focused on is making sure that his attacks are credible, that he can go after President Biden in a way and sort of a ferocious way that they think that Trump is going to demonstrate on the debate stage as well. One of the things that I think that they're very likely to raise in this debate is the issue of abortion, which Steve was talking about as well and it's interesting because Monday is the anniversary of that Supreme Court decision, the Dobbs decision that overturned Roe versus Wade. While President Biden is at Camp David, the rest of his team, you know, the vice president, the first lady, are all going to be out sort of commemorating this anniversary, talking about this issue with voters, which is when the Biden camp really does believe is going to be a galvanizing one for them in November.

JIMENEZ: And we know it's -- we've seen results to this point. That's an issue that that's been galvanizing for many voters from the midterms too special elections that we've seen in specific states where abortion was literally on the ballot in those cases.

But, Kevin, I want to go back to a little bit of what you said before because who are these people that he is actually preparing with? What do we know about this team he's assembled?

LIPTAK: Yeah, and Biden is notoriously -- he has a notoriously tight group of advisers. He doesn't let new people in all that often and you are seeing this at his preparations Camp David is being led by Ron Klain, who is his former chief of staff, but probably more importantly, he is the most seasoned debate coach in the Democratic Party. He's been doing this for years. He did it for Biden in '20. He did it, you know, for Hillary Clinton in '16. He's been doing this for a long time.

You also see some of his messaging gurus Anita Dunn, Mike Donilon, also, his current chief of staff, Jeff Zients, and Bruce Reed, who is his policy chief and helped sort of put these binders together. I do think it's interesting, Ron Klain back in 2012 worth this list of debate rules as he was preparing. So it does give you an idea of what they're doing.

One of them is developing a list of three items you must say in the debate. Study what your opponent has been saying especially in the days just before the debate. And, luckily, Trump has given them ample tape to review.

No practice is more effective than mocked debating. So, certainly, they're going to be doing that in the days leading up to Thursday.

Make sure you get feedback from a prep team that is compact and candid. Well, he's got there that -- up there at Camp David. It's a pretty small group. It's people who feel like they know Joe Biden pretty well.

And one of them is if in doubt, don't. Essentially, don't go rogue in a debate stage. That's not the place for it. Know what you're going to do, know what you're going to say.

JIMENEZ: That's probably good advice for just general life.

LIPTAK: Yeah.

JIMENEZ: So we'll see if all of those play out on the debate stage in just a few days now. Kevin, great to see you as always in-person.

LIPTAK: Yeah. JIMENEZ: Thanks for being here.

All right. Let's keep this conversation going because joining me now is Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts.

Congressman, thanks for being here.

Now, look, you ran against Biden in the Democratic primaries in 2020, and I'm just curious just as a former competitor, a direct competitor, what did you notice about his debate style and what advice would you give him now as he prepares to face off against Trump?

REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): Sure. Omar, first of all, thank you for remembering that. You're one of the few Americans who remembers that run for president a few years ago.

But look, Joe Biden needs to come into this and just show Americans that he's in control. He's competent, he's -- he's a normal guy. And that's such a contrast to the convicted felon he's running against.

This is not a time for zingers, for zealotry.

[16:10:00]

Biden just needs to show confidence, command of the facts and command of his really impressive record in contrast to Trump's criminal record.

That's what Biden does well. He just comes across as the ordinary guy you can sit down and have a milk shake with. That's what we need to see from Joe Biden on the debate stage.

JIMENEZ: And look, I think the stakes are very clear here. To this point, polls have really shown no real clear leader at this point, but I guess bottom line, do you think a good debate performance will actually give him a legitimate boost in the polls here?

MOULTON: I mean, let's be honest, the criticism about Biden is that he's old. And when he came out of the State of the Union after a magnificent performance with tremendous energy, everyone, even conservatives, you know, the Fox News talking heads were talking about how much energy Joe Biden. That's what he needs.

Now again, that's not by going over the top. That's just by showing confidence, command.

He's a commander in chief. If he can demonstrate that he can stand on that debate stage and take all the hits from Trump who clearly is not much of a commander in chief, then Joe Biden will come out ahead.

And I think that a lot of this will then depend on what the press says, right? A lot of studies show that it's not about just who wins the debate, but what the press says about the debate afterwards. He needs another performance like the State of the Union. And if he gets that, I think it will set them ahead in the polls. JIMENEZ: And as we know, we just heard from Kevin a little bit earlier, President Biden is at Camp David with advisers going through debate prep. Former President Trump is out on the campaign trail right now.

I want to ask you about a comment that Trump actually just made regarding migrants at the conservative Christian event in Washington this morning. Here's a clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I said, Dana, I have an idea. Why don't you set up a migrant league of fighters and have your regular league of fighters, and then you have the champion of your league, these are the greatest fighters in the world, fight the champion of the migrants. I think the migrant guy might win. That's how tough they are.

He didn't like that idea too much, but actually not the worst idea I've ever had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JIMENEZ: Now, look, we've heard what I would call a wide range of language from former President Trump when it comes to migrants.

But I play that because do you think the nature of those types of comments is something that President Biden should bring up during the debate, when he's asked about likely a very serious question about policy and immigration?

MOULTON: Look, of course, those are offensive and derogatory comments, but I actually don't think that that's what Biden should bring up. He should focus on one thing, that Trump and the Republicans are playing politics with immigration while Democrats are trying to fix the problem. That's the message that we need to get across.

Immigration is a huge issue in this election. It's an issue not just on the southern border, but in communities like the ones I represent up here in Massachusetts. We have a real issue with migrants.

But let's remember, Trump told the Republicans to sink the bipartisan deal in the Senate. He said, I want this to be an election issue. He said to America, I want to play politics with this issue.

That's what Joe Biden needs to focus on. The president needs to remind Americans that he's proposed solutions the he's doing things to address the border crisis. Trump is playing politics with it.

JIMENEZ: Before we go, Congressman, I want to turn our politics abroad because, look, you're a member of the House Armed Services Committee that Biden administration announced is prioritizing critical air defenses capabilities for Ukraine over other countries. This is on top of that ten-year agreement with Ukraine for military assistance as well.

Meanwhile, we're seeing Putin threatening to arm North Korea if the West continues to arm Ukraine.

So I guess my question is, is the U.S. doing enough, you believe, to strengthen our allies as Russia ramps up its attacks and rhetoric?

MOULTON: Well, I think the Biden administration has been doing well, but all along, I've encouraged them to move more quickly to get Ukraine the permissions that they need to use our weapons and the weapons themselves even more quickly than we have.

And, you know what? Again, when it comes back the debate here, let's -- let's remember that Biden is the commander in chief who's taken charge of this incredibly dangerous world and a very dangerous time for not just our allies, but for America as well, dealing with crises in Israel with Russia and preventing a war in China.

We don't want a madman in Donald Trump being commander in chief. The more that President Biden can remind people that this is a dangerous world, and we need competence in the Oval Office, I think he will do -- he'll do well in this debate.

JIMENEZ: And, Congressman, we do have to go, but I do want to ask you very quickly about the G.I. bill that you're putting forward with a few other members of Congress. Just, if you can quickly, can you just tell us the significance of this and what you are trying to accomplish here?

MOULTON: This is the anniversary of the G.I. bill. I use the G.I. bill. Millions of Americans have used the G.I. bill, but it was denied to a lot of Black veterans of World War II.

[16:15:04]

So, my bill is the G.I. Bill Restoration Act, which simply restores the benefits those heroes earned. I hope it gets a hearing in the House.

JIMENEZ: Yeah. Congressman Seth Moulton, thanks for being here on a variety of topics. Really appreciate your time.

MOULTON: Good to see you, Omar.

JIMENEZ: And for everyone else, you can catch the CNN presidential debate right here on CNN. Coming up on Thursday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and streaming on Max. I'll see you there.

All right, meanwhile, a heat dome is baking the eastern part of the country, putting more than 100 million people under heat alerts as officials warned of dangerously high temperatures.

Plus, the Hamas-run government in Gaza says dozens of people were killed in a new round of strikes today, as the IDF's operation nearby Rafah intensify.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [16:20:32]

JIMENEZ: At least 52 people are killed or missing following two airstrikes in central Gaza today. That's according to the Hamas- controlled government media office.

Now, CNN cannot independently verify these numbers but the Israeli military says its fighter jets targeted Hamas military infrastructure in the area around Gaza City. This as attacks are increasing along Israel's northern border. The Biden administration reassuring Israel this week they are fully prepared to back its ally in the event of an all-out war with Hezbollah.

CNN's Paula Hancocks is in Jerusalem with more.

Paula, just what more are you learning on both of those fronts?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Omar, when it comes to the U.S. officials talking to an Israeli delegation this week, they basically gave them the assurances that the U.S. was going to back its ally if they were to be an all-out war between Israel and Hezbollah. Now it comes as there are increasingly concerns about the cross-border attacks and whether that will escalate into a full-on war.

The reason this is significant is because this week, we have really seen the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu having a fairly public spat with Biden administration officials, saying earlier this week that they were withholding weapons from Israel. Now that was quickly rebuffed by Biden administration officials and they said they didn't really know what he was talking about.

But then Netanyahu on Friday doubled down on that saying the barely a trickle of these weapons were actually coming through to Israel. So this has been a very public spat between the prime minister and the officials. And so, this is really been a reassurance from the U.S. side that the security assurances that Israel would have what it needed in the events of this war.

Now the U.S. did point out that there would not be boots on the ground. So, these senior U.S. officials saying that the us would not be bringing troops in into this region. But they would actually be giving the weapons that were necessary -- Omar.

JIMENEZ: Paula Hancocks, thank you so much.

Let's talk more about this with former Israeli ambassador to the U.S., Michael Oren, who joins us now from Tel Aviv.

Michael, I want to ask about the deadly strike today and yesterday. The Red Cross said at least 22 more were killed in a strike that did hit civilians sheltering in a humanitarian zone in southern Gaza. Now, the IDF is denying any responsibility in that attack, but I know in a recent interview with us, you talked about how the Israeli military, you believe, is the most moral army in the world, and that the country has taken extraordinary steps to limit civilian casualties.

Do you still feel confident in that assessment?

MICHAEL OREN, FORMER ISRAELI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Absolutely. Good to be with you, Omar. Absolutely.

Any Palestinian casualty is a tragedy, let's be very, very clear about that. And one is one to many, but we're dealing with an enemy and fighting an enemy hiding behind civilian populations, beneath the civilian populations, with 400 miles of tunnels and the Palestinian health ministry, which is basically Hamas, not only inflates his figures, it doesn't distinguish between those Palestinians who are actually terrorists.

And about half, at least half of the Palestinians that we know have been killed in Gaza are in fact terrorists. And if you add to that, the Palestinians were killed by Palestinian rockets that fall short, about 12 percent of their rockets fall short, that kills Palestinians. And over the course of seven, eight months, about 4,000 to 5,000 people die of natural causes. They throw that number in there, too.

If you deduct all that, you've got about one combatant death to every civilian death. And that is the lowest level of any modern combat in history in my microphone. Back in Afghanistan, it was between four to one and nine to one of civilian combatant casualties.

So, yes, Israel is a moral army. It's doing its utmost to avoid civilian casualties. There was no indiscriminate bombings in Gaza, go through a very long approval process, both by the air force as well as by legal experts. And yes, mistakes happen, shooting mistakes.

I mean, look at the number of Israelis would have been killed by Israeli fire. I'm an old combat veteran. I'll say a combat is very confusing and yes, there's friendly fire incidents and civilians inadvertently, accidentally get killed. But the chance of that happening are increased manifoldly if you're dealing with enemies actually using those -- those civilians as human shields.

[16:25:04]

There's one quick way to end this, Omar, and that is -- that just Hamas says, it's over. Hamas gives up the hostages and Hamas ends this war. And it can end literally, in another minute.

JIMENEZ: And I just want to say for the death toll that a lot of those numbers have come from the Gaza health ministry, but there are U.N. officials and U.S. officials that have deemed that number credible. But CNN has not been able to independently verify those numbers.

I want to ask you about on another front, Mr. Ambassador, because we have seen -- there's no secret that it does seem there is tension between Israeli prime minister and United States officials in some cases over how the wars is being conducted, but also Netanyahu was accused the Biden administration now of withholding weapons to Israel.

Now the U.S. is strongly disputing this, and we just reported that Democratic lawmakers have lifted holds on unexpected $18 billion sale of F-15 fighter jets. But I guess the question is, how do you see the dynamic right now

between these two longtime allies? And is what you're seeing right now troubling in any way to you?

OREN: Well, apparently, yes. Let's be clear, I'm not in the government. I'm not a spokesman for the government and not privy to what's going on behind closed doors.

What is clear though is there's an open spat and that spat should not be happening. It's certainly been, it shouldn't be happening at a time, not only when Israel is engaged in a desperate war with Gaza, but on the verge of a much, much broader war in the north with Hezbollah, a war in which even the Biden administration says, United States is liable to become involved, at least in a passive way of taking down the between 1,000 and 6,000 rockets, which Hezbollah is expected to fire at Israel in that -- in that conflict. And these are much bigger rockets, much longer range, and heavier rockets and they're very accurate. So the United States support in that way would be very much appreciated.

But this type of open disagreement doesn't benefit either side, doesn't benefit the United States, doesn't benefit Israel. It only benefits Hamas and benefits ultimately Hezbollah.

Hamas won't accept a ceasefire because the head of Hamas, Mr. Sinwar believes the times working on his side. And if you see Israel and the United States bickering with one another, he could conclude that pressure will increase on Israel, and eventually, Israel agree to a permanent ceasefire that will enable Hamas to come out of the tunnels and declare victory and re-conquer Gaza and stage the next attack against Israel.

Hezbollah is saying it won't accept a ceasefire unless Hamas does. You see how this all holds together? So this -- this actual type of exchange is frankly endangering the entire region and increasing the chances for a much border -- much broader, much more destructive war.

JIMENEZ: And, of course, as we keep an eye and monitor tensions that have happened in northern Israel on the border with Hezbollah as well.

Michael Oren, I really appreciate the time and perspective. Thanks for being here.

OREN: Thank you very much.

JIMENEZ: Of course.

All right. We're only a few days into summer, but the AC is already on full blast as a dangerous heatwave blankets much of the country. We'll explain. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:32:34]

JIMENEZ: If you haven't felt it already over 100 million Americans are under a heat advisory this week and as temperatures soar. Now the I-95 Corridor which stretches along the east coast will have extreme temperatures potentially above 100 degrees. CNN correspondent Polo Sandoval joins us now from New York. Hello, what are you seeing? What are you feeling?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So yesterday, the thermometer at Newark Airport ending 100 degrees, Omar. So we'll have to see if that happens again today because that is the prolonged nature of this heat event. That's what has authorities concerned not just here in New York City, but throughout the region. You mentioned is probably about 100 million people that are being directly impacted by some form of acute advisor warning.

The Washington D.C. get another very odd day to day, which means that the mayor is extending that heat emergency for the rest of the weekend and into next week. Maryland also taking some extraordinary steps to make sure that their population is as safe as possible.

And in terms of that issue, or at least on that Omar, what we're seeing are these cooling centers that have opened up in cities throughout the Northeast basically allowing people a cool place to try to ride out the daytime heat. Then the other challenge of course is at night because the big thing is the highs have been higher. The overnight lows have been higher as well. So that basically does not allow people many people a chance to sort of recoverable daytime heat here though, this is what you do.

If you're among the youngest of those 100 million Americans or people who are affected by this. You play in one of these water features, which is something that you'll see throughout the country with yarn out in the water. Maybe you're on the water's beach.

JIMENEZ: Both not bad places to be if you're going to be outside in this heat. Polo Sandoval, really appreciate it.

Meteorologist Elise Raffa joins us now. All right, let's take a look at the wider picture here. I mean, is there any relief on the horizon for people?

ELISE RAFFA, CNN METEOROLOGIST: For some of those big cities on the I- 95 Corridor, we will find those temperatures come down a little bit by Monday as a cold front comes through. But until then, we are sweltering. We've got temperatures are warm, sorry, the heat the heat alerts that have been stretching from New York to Philadelphia, D.C. even over towards Cleveland. This is a look at the advisories in those warnings that Polo was talking about.

We're looking at more than 80 percent of the lower 48. That's more than 250 million people with temperatures at 90 degrees or higher as we go through the next couple of days and that could drop more than 250 records both daytime highs and overnight lows will actually break more records for the overnight temperatures because we really get no relief at night.

[16:35:04] Here's a look at the current temperatures we are at 94 in Raleigh, 95 in Nashville, 94 degrees in Atlanta, even low 90 stretching up to Chicago, 98 degrees right now in Washington, DC. Baltimore has already hit 101. So again, it's pretty hot.

But in DC, we're watching that current temperature closely because if we hit 100 degrees today, that would be the first time since 2016, more than 208 -- 2000 rather 2,868 days since DC has hit 100 degrees and again, we're two degrees shy as of right now so we still have some time to squeeze that out.

Temperatures up near 100 Saturday and Sunday from D.C. to Richmond, Virginia up in Philadelphia as well. You can see where these temperatures again do back off on Monday. As that cold front comes through, they get a little bit closer to average with those highs closer to the 80s.

Now again, the temperatures on the overnight don't really give you too much relief middle and upper 70s we could be looking at 80 degree low temperatures around the D.C. area and this is the real killer because you just don't get any of that relief at night after sweltering all day.

You don't even get those nighttime temperatures to help so really puts people without access to air conditioning at risk, right. So this extreme heat risk continues as we go through the day today. You can see it major across the I-95 Corridor from New York down to Baltimore and DC, some extreme in parts of Ohio and then as we go through the rest of the weekend, it continues to kind of sit and settle across the parts of the south east as temperature stay warm as we start the work week. Omar.

JIMENEZ: Elise Raffa, thank you so much. All right. Dozens of California inmates on death row could now have their convictions thrown out all because of handwritten notes. What the scribbles reveal about the way prosecutors treated these decades' old cases. You're in the CNN Newsroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:41:32]

JIMENEZ: All right, welcome back. In California, dozens of convicted death penalty rates are now under review after a recently discovered case file from the 1990s revealed prosecutors private notes where they tracked whether potential jurors were black or Jewish.

Now remember, by law, prosecutors are not allowed to decide a jury based on race, ethnicity or gender. Nick Watt reveals how old hand scribbled notes may end up freeing convicts on death row.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Lance Clark was nine years old when he was shot dead in Oakland, California. Ernest Dykes convicted of his murder sentenced to death, but Lance's family tells CNN that they've been told by the DA's office that Dykes will be out of prison in nine months to a year and they say, Lance has missed every day. He was robbed of a future.

Why might Dykes get out because an assistant DA found and disclosed handwritten notes about potential jurors from the trial back in 1995.

BRIAN POMERANTZ, ATTORNEY FOR MARK SCHMECK: This is a male black juror, someone who's written here must go further down on this card. I liked him better than any other Jew but no way. They just thought Jewish jurors were more liberal as one prosecutor said black people don't like police. There were no butchers in this case.

WATT: There were no Jewish jurors?

POMERANTZ: No Jewish jurors.

WATT (voice-over): The DEA Pamela Price had no comment on the expected release. But earlier, she did tell us this.

PAMELA PRICE, ALAMEDA COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Mr. Dykes has spent 31 years behind bars. And so he has paid a price for that crime.

WATT (voice-over): She says this guy Morris Jacobson was among the prosecuting attorneys on the case.

WATT: We know he was involved in jury selection.

PRICE: Yes.

WATT (voice-over): Unclear if a prosecutor or someone else wrote these words.

WATT: He is now a judge here in Alameda County works here in this courthouse behind me. We called a couple of times asked for an interview. He said no court is over for the day. We've been waiting for a couple of hours to try and catch him on his way out. We haven't seen it.

WATT (voice-over): A federal judge believes this issue is much wider than in prior decades, prosecutors in this office were engaged in a pattern of serious misconduct, automatically excluding Jewish and African American jurors in death penalty cases.

PRICE: It's when you have serious prosecutorial misconduct that means that the conviction is a wrongful conviction. And so, it's a question of whether or not we're able to negotiate a resolution or whether we have to go back to trial.

WATT (voice-over): That federal judge has now ordered the DA's office to review 35 capital cases, among them convicted serial killers, mass shooters, rapists and murderers dating from the 1980s through 2007.

WATT: The only other solution is that they get out.

POMERANTZ: For some that may be the solution. And for some of that should be the solution. Right like I said, I believe Mr. Schmeck did not do the crime.

WATT (voice-over): Sentence to die for killing Lauren Jermaine during an armed robbery in the mid-80s. The victim's daughter just spoke to CNN.

UNIDENATIFIED FEMALE: He was a fun dad. He would always take us fishing and camping and my mom worked swing shifts. So he was the guy home at night he even was the tooth fairy.

WATT (voice-over): She was too afraid to show her face.

UNDIENTIFIED FEMALE: My biggest fears. What if he gets out of jail? Just that somebody out there hurt my dad and then he's going to be out there and who's to say he's not going to hurt me.

[16:45:00]

WATT (voice-over): Brian Pomerantz is looking through all those 35 case files.

POMERANTZ: In almost all the cases, we've seen lists like this. And as we have names and next to it, you'll see them --

WATT: MB.

POMERANTZ: Right, male black./

WATT: OK.

POMERANTZ: FB, female black, or they were writing the race only of African Americans. They weren't riding the race of anyone else/

WATT: In 2008.

POMERANTZ: 2008.

WATT: Do you also contend that this issue was then covered up over the years?

POMERANTZ: Absolutely.

PRICE: I believe that's true. There was knowledge, there had to be knowledge.

WATT (voice-over): Because during an appeal in 2003, a former Alameda deputy DA testified it was standard practice to exclude Jewish jurors and death cases as it was to exclude African American women.

PRICE: Is this ironic, they didn't want me on the jury. And now I'm the district attorney.

WATT (voice-over): This is from the 1992 case file of Franklin Lynch, aka "The Day Stalker" convicted of murdering three elderly women, but during jury selection.

POMERANTZ: Half B. They were so concerned about that person even being half black that they flagged it not once, but twice.

WATT: I mean, Franklin Lynch was convicted and basically a serial killer. He's not somebody that should catch a break, because this?

POMERANTZ: This is a tragedy on all level, right? There are victims' families who are suffering, because now these cases 30 years later are coming back. It is wrong. It's also wrong when Franklin Lynch doesn't get a fair trial.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: CNN's Nick Watt reporting. Thank you so much for that. All right. Coming up. As President Biden and former President Trump prepared to face off we're going to run the numbers with Harry Enten to see how the incumbent president typically fares in the first presidential debate. You're in the CNN Newsroom.

COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:51:31]

JIMENEZ: We are now five days away from CNN debate between President Biden and former President Trump and it's their first face to face matchup of the campaign though not their first debate, and all conventional wisdom about what to expect should be tossed right out the window. That's why we got CNN senior data reporter Harry Enten, who joins us to run the numbers. All right. Where is Biden starting for an incumbent heading into this first debate?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Omar, I was with you yesterday. I was with you last week. What a privilege to be with you again here. All right, let's run some of these numbers.

JIMENEZ: Let's do it.

ENTEN: OK. Yes, look, if you're an incumbent, and you're either trailing or tied, going in the first debate that puts you in a company that you don't want to be in because look at these, these are the past incumbents who are tied or behind going in the first debate, Jerry Ford in '76, Jimmy Carter in '80, George H.W. Bush in 1992, Donald Trump four years ago in 2020.

You know what all four of those guys have in common? They all lost.

JIMENEZ: Yes.

ENTEN: They all lost. Now I will get -- yes, that's not good. It's not good. Of course, the thing I will note is this debate is happening so much earlier, right? Those debates happen in September or October. This debate, of course, is happening in June. So maybe as you said, in your opening, we have to take that conventional wisdom and toss it right out the window.

JIMENEZ: Well, and I guess the question is based on that graphic that you just showed it is happening a little bit earlier, but how do first debates usually go for incumbents? ENTEN: You know, this is something I was thinking about when I put this graphic together. I couldn't recall an incumbent who won a first debate in the minds of the voters. And it turns out, that's because the last one to do it was Bill Clinton and the 1996. I don't really recall that campaign particularly well.

And before that, the last one to do it was Jerry Ford back in 1976. Those are the only two guys. Those are the only two guys. The only two incumbents who won that first debate. Usually the challenger wins six out of eight times the challenger has won that first debate, including Joe Biden four years ago.

So the fact is, if you're an incumbent and you're trailing going into that first debate, history is not necessarily your friend, because normally, that incumbent loses that first debate as well and only can fall further behind. But of course, it's 2024 anything that happened, my friend.

JIMENEZ: Yes. Of course, of course, we've been saying that since well for years now, anything can happen. Look, I want to ask about this you because we're in the game before the game, so to speak some mind games from rhetoric back and forth.

We've seen Donald Trump's campaign for months try to paint Biden as someone who won't be up to the task, not mentally fit for this. And now he seems to be shifting his tune a little bit. It could Biden actually benefit from low expectations here.

ENTEN: Yes, this to me is the most bizarre thing of all of us. Normally going into the first debate, the incumbent is favored to win that first debate. George W. Bush was favored by 16 points, Barack Obama was favored by 22 points. Even Donald Trump last time around was favored by a point a small advantage. But one nonetheless, this time around, though, the challenger is actually favored going into the first debate, more voters think Donald Trump's going to win this first debate than Joe Biden.

So you know, you looked at that first graphic, you look at that second graphic, and you said, Man, that's really bad for Joe Biden, but the expectations this time around, Omar, are so low for an incumbent. It's in some ways almost as if Joe Biden can't lose because that line is so low, it's going to be so difficult to fall underneath it.

[16:55:06]

But again, this is a unique case. It's a new campaign, the two oldest candidates ever running for major party nominations, so and winning them. So the fact is, we don't know exactly what's going to happen. But Joe Biden at this point, could benefit from low expectations, of course, we'll see if he's able to at least exceed or meet that bar on Thursday.

JIMENEZ: We'll see. We'll know in a few days. Before you go. And this is really important, maybe the most important thing we've ever talked about. I wanted to get into --

ENTEN: Of course.

JIMENEZ: -- it with you last week, but we're at a time. We know Biden and Trump they're not the only big matchup coming soon, right?

ENTEN: That's correct. You know, I specifically said I have to be on with Omar this weekend --

JIMENEZ: Yes.

ENTEN: -- because we have to talk about this. You know that Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Contest is on July 4, but the two big wigs Joey Chestnut and Kobayashi aren't going to be taking part in that. They're going to be taking on in a Netflix special come Labor Day.

And so I was just thinking back to the most anticipated battles. This is one of them. I think it's on the same level as Ali-Frazier in 1971. Or maybe Godzilla versus King Kong back in 2021. You know, those are the big ones. This is this sort of level that's going on. It's Tom and Jerry, it's Chestnut-Kobayashi. I don't know about you, but when this fight comes around, we're going to have to sit down together, eat some hotdogs and enjoy this epic battle.

JIMENEZ: Two men bound by fate for years and years and years. I don't know how they keep doing it every year, but whenever I watch, I feel like I have to stay far away from food. I feel like it just let them do what they need to do. Harry Enten, glad we got that in. Thanks for being here.

ENTEN: Thank you, my friend. Be well. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

JIMENEZ: Of course, same new. All right, everybody, we're following a lot of news going on around the world and around the country, including CNN has a new exclusive interview with American Paul Whelan, who has been detained in Russia for five and a half years now. We're going to tell you how he's describing his time in detention and the ongoing fight to get him home. You're in the CNN Newsroom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)