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Biden And Trump Presidential Debate; Interview With Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO); Biden And Trump Final Preparations For CNN Debate; Trump Leans Into Election Lies; Three Days Away From CNN Presidential Debate. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired June 24, 2024 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. A few things get under President Biden's skin more than Donald Trump reportedly calling fallen veterans "suckers and losers" during the 2020 debates. Then-candidate Biden took those comments head on, defending his late son's memory. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: And speaking of my son, the way you talk about the military, the way you talk about them being losers and being -- and just being suckers. My son was in Iraq. He spent a year there. He got -- he got the Brown Star. He got the conspicuous service medal. He was not a loser. He was a patriot and the people left behind there were heroes.
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Really?
BIDEN: And I resent --
TRUMP: Are you talking about Hunter? Are you talking about Hunter?
BIDEN: I'm talking about my son Beau Biden.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Joining me now is democratic congressman Jason Crow of Colorado He's an army veteran and currently serves on the House Intelligence and Foreign Affairs Committees. Congressman, thanks very much for coming in and being with us. Really appreciate it.
REP. JASON CROW (D-CO), FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE: It's good to be with you.
ACOSTA: Well, I mean, what do you think? If this comes up again, you know, Trump has been claiming lately he never said any of this, even though it's been confirmed by -- on the record by John Kelly and others. How should the president handle this? Should he bring it up? Should it come up? [10:35:00]
CROW: I think it should come up. I hope it comes up because America needs to know that Donald Trump is not only a risk to our national security and a risk to the American people, but he disparages and maligns our fallen heroes constantly over and over and over again.
You know, I share President Biden's disdain and just completely appalled by this. You know, my fallen friends from Iraq and Afghanistan deserve better than Donald Trump's treatment.
ACOSTA: And Trump is likely to go after the president's foreign policy record, talk about the wars in Ukraine and what's happening right now in Gaza. I mean, Americans are -- you know, if you look at the polls, they're starting to say they don't want to see the U.S. as heavily involved in providing aid to Ukraine and that sort of thing. How do you see that debate shaping up?
CROW: I hope foreign policy and national security comes up. It should come up. It must come up. This is a major issue on the campaign this year. And I sleep better at night knowing that Joe Biden sits in the White House and not Donald Trump.
I mean, there is plenty of record during Donald Trump's presidency to know the threat that he poses from maligning and threatening to pull out of NATO, to the way he handled Iran, to his disparagement of our military, to giving up secrets to Russia and saying he'll welcome Russia, you know, doing whatever they want to do in Europe. There is a lot of stuff to talk about, and I hope President Biden brings the heat to Donald Trump because he deserves it.
ACOSTA: Yes, and speaking of bringing the heat, I mean, what is your response when you hear Trump and all these surrogates? We played this sound earlier on in the program of not just Trump, but surrogates on Fox and so on, you know, making this claim that the president's going to be jacked up and, you know, getting injections. Obviously, none of that has ever -- I mean, there's -- it's never been established that Joe Biden does any of those things. How should the president handle it if Donald Trump brings this up on Thursday?
CROW: Well, Donald Trump is going to lie because that's what he does, right? He lies and he lies and he lies. So, Joe Biden needs to do what he always does, remain calm, tell the truth, be consistent, and be steady. People will see that, right?
You can't control Donald Trump. The person is a sociopath. He is a serial liar. Joe Biden will do what he has to do and that is stay focused on the American people, stay focused on working class Americans and our national security.
ACOSTA: And what, I mean, what do you make of, you know, the fact that the mics are going to be muted, you know, some of the ground rules for this debate?
CROW: Well, I think that's positive because when you debate somebody like Donald Trump -- and I've had debates with folks like this, right, when you -- when they start losing on the substance, then they raise their voice, then they attack the other person, then they try to cut them off, right? This needs to be about the substance because that's what the American people deserve.
So, some of these ground rules are important because they're designed to ensure that people hear what they need to hear, people answer questions, and they give the other person their due time.
ACOSTA: And how big of a moment is this for President Biden on Thursday? I mean, if you look at the polls, if you listen to what voters are saying anecdotally, there are some concerns about the president's age and so on. As you saw during the State of the Union speech, he addressed a lot of those concerns, came out pretty pumped up, and that seemed to allay some of the fears inside the Democratic Party. How big of a moment is this for the president on Thursday?
CROW: Well, debates are always really important, right? I think this is going to be one of the few opportunities the Americans will be able to see both of the candidates in the extreme contrast between the two. I can't think of a bigger contrast than Joe Biden whose career in public service, whose empathy and compassion as a human, as a father as a leader contrast so significantly with the defective character and the danger of someone like Donald Trump. So, it's a contrast I'm looking forward to seeing.
ACOSTA: What does success look like for the president?
CROW: I think getting the message about not only character, that character does matter, right? It does matter whether or not someone tells the truth, it does matter whether or not somebody is trustworthy. It does matter whether or not they have a reputation with our partners and allies around the world. That's number one.
Number two is telling the story about the infrastructure investments we made, about how we came into office and helped pull us out of the pandemic and governed with respect and governed by putting good people first. And then talking about the danger that Donald Trump poses, things like Project 2025.
Donald Trump has a plan in something called Project 2025 that if he comes into office, he will replace lifetime civil servants, people who know how to do things like keep our food safe, keep our airlines safe to do inspections, to address pandemics, and he will replace them with loyalists. That is their plan. It's actually a written plan.
Their litmus test under a second Trump administration is to put people in office who are loyal to Donald Trump, period. That is not a government that the American people need or want. It's very dangerous.
[10:40:00]
ACOSTA: All right. Congressman Jason Crow, great to talk to you as always, and thanks for coming in in person. Really appreciate it. Good to see you.
In the meantime, when Donald Trump and Joe Biden last faced off on the debate stage, it was a bit of a dumpster fire as the candidates kept interrupting one another.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TRUMP: Did you use the word smart? So, you said you went to Delaware State, but you forgot the name of your college. You didn't go to Delaware State. You graduated either the lowest or almost the lowest in your class. Don't ever use the word smart with me. There's nothing smart about you, Joe.
BIDEN: I'm not here to call out his lies. Everybody knows he's a liar.
TRUMP: But you agree --
BIDEN: I just want to make sure --
TRUMP: You're the liar.
BIDEN: I want to make sure --
TRUMP: You graduated last in your class, not first in your class.
BIDEN: I want to make sure --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, can you let him finish, sir?
BIDEN: No, he doesn't know how to do that. He has --
TRUMP: You'd be surprised.
BIDEN: -- you picked the wrong guy, the wrong night at the wrong time. Just keep yapping, man.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And joining me now is Republican debate coach and media strategist Brett O'Donnell. Brett, I understand you helped Mitt Romney and Former President George W. Bush prepare for their debates. This is -- this one's a slightly different kind of debate. What do you think?
BRETT O'DONNELL, MESSAGE AND MEDIA STRATEGIST, DEBATE COACH: Well, it is. And I actually think the fact that the microphones will be cut off when someone is speaking and it's not their turn helps Donald Trump because it will be a disincentive for him to not speak over Joe Biden. So, I actually think that rule helps favor Former President Trump.
ACOSTA: And do you think he's going to be able to keep his cool, the former president, if his mic is being muted at certain points during the debate?
O'DONNELL: Well, I would hope that both of them would keep their cool, because the debate shouldn't be about each other, it should be about the American people. They really need to stay focused on the issues. Joe Biden needs to make this election a choice between him and Donald Trump. And Donald Trump is in a different spot now than he was in 2020. He's not the incumbent. He needs to make this a referendum on Joe Biden and his policies. And I think if we they can stay substantive, it'll be a debate that benefits the American people.
ACOSTA: And let's play another viral moment from the first 2020 debate. Here's then-former Vice President Joe Biden responding to a question about whether he would add justices to the Supreme Court. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: The issue is the American people should speak. You should go out and vote. You're in voting now. Vote and let your senators know how strong you feel it.
TRUMP: Are you going to back the court?
BIDEN: Let -- vote now.
TRUMP: Are you going to back the court?
BIDEN: Make sure you, in fact, let people know your senators. I'm not going to answer the question because the question is --
TRUMP: Why wouldn't you answer that question? You want to put a lot --
BIDEN: The question is -- would you shut up, man?
TRUMP: Listen, who is on your list, Joe?
BIDEN: This is so unprecedented.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: I mean, there's an example of where the mic meeting might come into play right there, but we're set to get these landmark Supreme Court rulings ahead of Thursday's debate, might get one right on the day of the debate, including a potential decision on whether Trump is immune from prosecution. You have to think they're preparing for that.
O'DONNELL: Absolutely. I mean, there's all sorts of rulings coming down the pike that have significant impact on the presidential election in 2024, whether or not the president's immune. And all of those things could play into the debate. What has to happen in the debate, though, it has to be civil.
Joe Biden needed to answer that question, but the president needed to properly litigate that question as opposed to do not appear rude. I've said that it's -- the good debater in politics is aggressive, but not offensive. That's how people will judge who wins or loses this debate, but they've got to tie their issues to the American people and how they impact them in terms of their lives. What makes their lives better?
ACOSTA: Yes. And, Brett, I have to ask you, I mean, you know, it's, I guess, easy to, you know, critique these things from a conventional campaigning standpoint. But this past weekend and for the last several days, the president has been sort of holed up and in Camp David doing a lot of debate prep. He'll have about a week of debate prep under his belt before going into the debate. Is that a good idea? Is over preparation perhaps not a good idea? And what about Trump being out on the campaign trail? I suppose he's probably doing some debate prep, but not as much as the president. What do you think?
O'DONNELL: Well, debate prep is individual to the candidate. You need to do what best serves them and makes them feel like they are the most ready to go into that debate and execute the strategy that you want them to execute. Both of these men need to frame the race. Neither has really framed up this election in terms of what the issues are they want to run on, why they should be granted four more years in office and frame the race against the other as well.
[10:45:00]
So, I think whatever prep works for your candidate is what you have to do. Whether it's -- you know, with John McCain, we never did any mock debates, but we did sit around the table, talk about questions, talk about things that -- arguments that he wanted to make in the debate. But then with others like George W. Bush and others, mock debates were a part of the process. You just have to do what best serves your candidate.
ACOSTA: All right. Brett O'Donnell, thank you very much, really appreciate it.
O'DONNELL: Thanks, good to be with you.
ACOSTA: All right. Good to be with you. And we're just three days away from the first presidential debate of the year, hosted by CNN, President Biden and Former President Donald Trump, head-to-head this Thursday, June 27th at 9:00 p.m. right here on CNN. Don't miss it, we'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[10:50:00]
ACOSTA: Donald Trump is heading into this debate week repeating the same election lies that have become a hallmark of his campaign. Last time he -- his fraudulent call to stop the steal resulted in a deadly insurrection. Now, he's pushing baseless accusations once again, months before a single vote is cast.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They rig it or cheat. You know, there's not a lot you're going to do about that, other than you have to stop it. And now, we have to stop it a second time.
I want the vote guarded. I want the steal stopped. Because we don't need the votes. We have the votes. We have more votes.
What I don't want is those votes to disappear. They disappear. And new votes appear, brilliantly appear. You know, you're the police in a way. You can be -- you can police your vote.
If I knew that everything would be honorable and honest as it should be, I'd stop campaigning right now. We have this thing won.
In four years, you don't have to vote, OK? We'll have it all straightened out, so it'll be much different.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: CNN political commentator and former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger joins me now. Adam, good to see you again, as always. I mean, as we've talked about this so many times, you've served on the January 6th Committee. I mean, what do you make of -- and what's your response to Trump being out on the campaign trail saying things like police the vote, guard your vote, protect your vote, I mean, it's the same zombie lie, you know, coming back to, you know, haunt us here.
ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND FORMER JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE MEMBER: Yes, Jim. I mean, look, he is a complete -- we know this. This isn't a surprise. He's a deep narcissist. This is a man that only cares about himself. He only cares about his reputation. The fact that he could possibly lose, he's trying to initially inoculate people against believing that he lost because he's a loser. But the other thing that does, which we saw in 2020, is it does convince people that an election is stolen.
And when you -- look, in a self-governing society, we have to know that our vote counts and that -- you know, whoever gets the most votes is going to win. If you convince a significant amount of the population that their vote doesn't count, violence is the inevitable next step. It's not a surprise. This is an epic failure, not obviously just by Donald Trump. He's a flawed, broken man.
But by the many Republican leaders that have sat back and not pushed back against this lie from basically the election in 2020 until today because they do not want it to affect their personal position in power. And so, all that the Republican base here is what Donald Trump is saying.
ACOSTA: Yes. And we've had lots of elections since 2020, a midterm election cycle in 2022. No fraud, everything went just fine, people got re-elected, you know. And let me ask you something else, Adam. Trump spoke over the weekend at the Evangelical Faith and Freedom Coalition in Washington and suggested he's being targeted for his beliefs. Let's listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: If I took this shirt off, you'd see a beautiful, beautiful person, but you'd see wounds all over me. I've taken a lot of wounds. I can tell you. More than I suspect any president ever.
Trump was treated the worst, Andrew Jackson second, and Abraham Lincoln third. But I definitely took top spot. I took top spot. And I'm honored to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Yes, Adam, what do you make of this talk of wounds, appealing to Christian conservatives, with this imagery of having wounds all over his body?
KINZINGER: Yes. Well, let me say he's trying to compare himself to Jesus Christ. That's what that is. He's trying to talk -- you know, Jesus Christ was whipped, had wounds all over his body. And as you know, there are so many people out there in the evangelical movement -- I consider myself a strong Christian, but I don't worship Donald Trump. I worship Jesus Christ. And the difference is this, Jesus was a tough person who stood strong, who turn the other cheek when that was tough to do. Donald Trump is the weakest, whiniest, smallest, complainiest, victimist person ever.
And he'll even stand in front of a group of Christians and say, in essence, look at my wounds, and I've been treated worse than Abraham Lincoln. I mean, if that goes to show how this man thinks of himself, to think that he is even anywhere in the neighborhood of Abraham Lincoln, it goes to show how truly flawed he is. And that's why America has a really big decision in November. And you know, in my mind, hopefully they don't go with the, the narcissist.
ACOSTA: Well -- but I mean, he's saying this at a faith and family and freedom forum. I mean, a gathering of Christian conservatives, he's relying heavily on conservative religious leaders to support him in November. He's talking about supporting Louisiana's new 10 commandments law, about posting the 10 commandments in every classroom. What was your response to that?
[10:55:00]
KINZINGER: Look, it -- this is also a failure from the pulpit, by the way, Jim, because there should be pastors and local churches pushing back against this garbage. Look -- here, let me tell you about the 10 commandments. You know, David French recently wrote an article where he said, look, I went to school when the 10 commandments were required to be posted on the wall. And not once did we talk about the 10 commandments and how we should follow them because we see them on the wall.
It's one thing if these were being pushed in Louisiana as a way to like kind of give people a general guide how to live. Don't kill, don't steal. That's all-good stuff. But what it's being done, and you see it in Jeff Landry, the governor of Louisiana's words, this is being done as a "own the libs or to tick people off." He says, oh, I can't wait until I get sued and go to court.
ACOSTA: Right.
KINZINGER: This is not the point of the 10 commandments so you can put your middle finger up to the rest of the world.
ACOSTA: All right. Adam Kinzinger, thanks very much. Great to talk to you as always. Appreciate it.
KINZINGER: You bet. Yes.
ACOSTA: All right. And we are three days away from CNN's Presidential Debate in Atlanta. How both candidates are preparing as the clock ticks down. We have some new reporting on all of that. Our coverage continues after a short break.
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[11:00:00]
