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CNN International: Protest Clashes And Looting In Kenya, Parliament Breached; Fires At Kenyan Parliament, Nairobi City Hall Amid Protests; Police Open Fire On Protestors At Kenyan Parliament. Aired 11a-12p ET

Aired June 25, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

RAHEL SOLOMON, HOST, "CNN NEWSROOM": Welcome to our viewers from around the world. I'm Rahel Solomon live in New York.

I want to get straight to our breaking news we're following out of Kenya. That's where another big confrontation may be looming this hour in Nairobi. Protesters are facing a government curfew that is just minutes away. Protests against proposed tax hikes igniting literally and figuratively today. City Hall was set on fire, as we see here, as were parts of the parliament building. Lawmakers there were forced to escape through an underground channel earlier after protesters got inside parliament. That is according to CNN affiliate NTV Kenya.

Now, just hours ago, our team on the scene saw two bodies lying on the ground after police fired live rounds at protesters near the parliament building. As you can see in this video here clearly, very chaotic scenes on the ground there. Police also apparently using tear gas during a CNN live interview with Barack Obama's sister. You see here who is participating in the protests.

Let's get to CNN's Larry Madowo, who has been in the thick of the protests in Nairobi. Larry, give us a sense of what you can see behind you. What's going on there?

LARRY MADOWO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Rahel, there is only about 30 minutes left until the protesters are required to vacate this area. The government said they could keep the activities until 6:30 p.m. Right now, we see the fire brigade arriving here at a building in Nairobi that's on fire. Some of the protesters tell us they believe tear gas was fired into this building with people inside it. We saw some of them escape, having to jump through the windows to escape the building. This fire has gone on for almost half an hour before the Nairobi City County fire rescue service just arriving here.

It's quite advanced at this point. I'm not sure how much they'll be able to salvage. Maybe the attempt here is to try and make sure that it does not spread to neighboring buildings, because this is a lot of other buildings that are connected to it. So, if this building does catch fire and continue, there'll be other buildings connected to it. It could bring down this entire block. This is the escalation and these protests we've seen between the police -- and these running battles we've seen between the police and the protesters who've been out till morning -- since morning.

The big theme today was called a total shutdown. They had declared seven days of rage to try and get the government of President William Ruto to pay attention and to reduce the cost of living and specifically to reject a controversial finance bill that was seen to be likely to increase the cost of living and reduce -- introduce a new raft of taxes here. And as the day has worn on, we've seen some looting. And now, we see the fire brigade trying to put out this fire here. This is one of the main streets in Nairobi. Kenyatta Avenue is one of the main streets in the capital. And this building is what burned down and spread an entire block to be burned down in the middle of the capital Nairobi.

On the other hand, we're hearing one more time police firing tear gas canisters right at us, right at us in the middle of the city, trying to disperse these protesters. They have 30 minutes to leave here, as they were required by the government of Kenya, Rahel. But, it does not appear that they will be able to do so. So, once again, police try to disperse them, keep them away from parliament. They've been using this truck -- don't fire at as. Why are you firing at us? That fell right next to us. We're clearly marked. And these cops in this truck are doing everything they can to get rid of these protesters here.

But, it's an incredible scene, as we're just seeing police try and disperse these protesters in every way possible, but also heavy- handedly breaking down what are largely peaceful protesters. That has not degenerated into looting and at least one fire in the middle of the capital, Rahel,

SOLOMON: Larry, what happens if in 30 minutes protesters don't disband?

MADOWO: It's not clear what will happen, because in 30 minutes, it will also be starting to get dark. It's easier for them to hide in the dark corners of the city and do whatever else more they can do. I think the police will be trying to aggressively kick them out of the main city, push them further away into the outskirts of the city, as they're doing. I've have seen this truck make the rounds here in the city in the last hour or so, plainclothes officers, many of them using this tear gas canisters to try and push back the police. So, this is just to make sure that as the night wears on, as they get to that deadline, none of them are still here. On the other side of the burning building, we see another fire brigade truck coming in to try and break down that fire. I'm not sure how much they'll be able to do because that fire is quite advanced, Rahel.

SOLOMON: Larry, what are police telling you, or government officials telling you?

[11:05:00]

I mean, criticism appears to be mounting about what critics say is a heavy-handed approach to the protesters. What response have we heard?

MADOWO: So far, there has been no official statement from the police. There is been no official statement from the interior ministry and no official statement from State House, from President William Ruto. But, these protests have definitely escalated. They were on the streets on Tuesday and Thursday last week. But, this is the most violent we have seen them in terms of the amount of looting we've seen on the streets. There was no fires last week.

And there are so many buildings that crosses two blocks on the street that have been looted, and I can show you some of that right now real quick. This is extraordinary. Even though the young people that organized these protests said they will be largely peaceful protests and many of them were peaceful protests, one of their accusations they claim is that there were agitators who were among them, who came in to vandalize these buildings, who came and stole from some of these shops in the middle of the capital. We spoke to one business owner who was counting his losses after his building was ransacked and everything in the shop taken away.

So, it's just -- we walk right here. You can see the effects and the aftermath of the looting after the protesters were battling police but also taking advantage of the confusion to take everything their way (ph). I saw one young man walking away with a TV set on his back. Many of them are kind of trying to collect the pieces here after this dramatic afternoon, Rahel.

SOLOMON: And then, Larry, if we could just take a step back, remind us what has triggered so much anger in this bill, because we have seen, as you have reported, some concessions from the government but clearly not enough to appease these protesters. Help us understand what's in the bill.

MADOWO: So, President William Ruto was elected in 2022, and his campaign promise was that he was the hustler-in-chief, that he understood the plight of the common man. That's why so many young people voted for him. But, in the time since then, he says he acquired a huge government debt, and the only way he can raise revenue is by raising taxes. These new proposals contained in the finance bill are expected to raise about $2.7 billion in extra taxes. Even though after public outcry, some of the more extreme proposals were dropped by his government, many of them remain. And now, this is the effect of that. People in Kenya, especially these young people, who organize on TikTok and social media and Instagram say, life is too expensive for them and they cannot afford any extra taxes, because as it is, they can't afford to live.

SOLOMON: Larry, are you OK? Can you go on?

MADOWO: I'm alright, Rahel. Yes, I'm fine. There is a bit of tear gas in the air. That's not my first rodeo.

SOLOMON: OK. Larry, if we still have you, I just want to ask, there were some concerns about potentially critics of this bill of the current administration going missing? Well, what do we know about that? MADOWO: Amnesty International Kenya told CNN today that at least 12 prominent social media users had been abducted in the middle of the night and their whereabouts remain unknown. They say that is illegal. And the Kenyan law, anybody who is arrested has to be taken to a police station, and has been -- has to be allowed access to a lawyer, to their family, and has to be presented in court in a timely manner. None of that has happened here, and these people still remain unaccounted for. Police have not explained where exactly they are or what happened. But, human rights groups believe they were arrested by intelligence officers and they're being held in unknown places. It's a big concern here. That's one aspect.

The other is, this afternoon, outside parliament, CNN did see at least two bodies lying on the floor. We saw police using live rounds against protesters who were peaceful. They did try to breach the wall of parliament and they breach parliament and get in and get to the floor of the House and take the Mace away from there. But, they didn't have any weapons. They had banners and they had flags. And so, the criticism here is that this government response has been heavy-handed, overly violent, a militarized response to a largely peaceful protest.

SOLOMON: Larry, if I can ask just the status of this bill. Is it all but certain that William Ruto will sign it? I mean, what happens now?

MADOWO: The bill has gone through what is called a Committee of the full House today and that sailed through again. And it's likely this bill will end up becoming law because President Ruto's government, President Ruto's party has a majority in both the National Assembly and the Senate. So, despite the public outcry, it's likely the bill will pass because as long as all his members of parliament vote according to party line, there is nothing any of the opposition, the people in the streets can do. But, if it does pass and people feel that they were not heard, it might lead to anarchy, like what we see here with people burning buildings, looting and making the city ungovernable.

Today, Nairobi is felt a lot like a war zone, which it -- normally, it is not. This is one of Africa's safest cities. This is one of Africa's most advanced democracies, and yet today fire in the streets literally and figuratively.

[11:10:00]

SOLOMON: Yeah. Considered an economic powerhouse. Larry Madowo, we appreciate your reporting. Don't go far. Please stay safe. We'll talk to you soon. Thank you.

I want to now bring into the conversation CNN Senior Editor Stephanie Busari, who is live for us in Lagos, Nigeria. Stephanie, good to have you. Talk to us a little bit about what we're seeing on the ground and how these protests right now compared to the protests you covered four years ago.

STEPHANIE BUSARI, CNN SENIOR EDITOR, AFRICA: Yes, Rahel. The similarities are striking between these protests and the ones that I covered every single day in October 2020 when Nigerians, young Nigerians took to the streets protesting against police brutality. In particular, a police unit known as SARS, and shots of SARS rang through the streets of Nigeria at the time. And just play by play, it was seeing the same thing unfold. At that time, young people were water cannoned and tear gassed just like we're seeing here with the Nairobi protests.

And we're seeing that the resistance that some -- they're showing in Nairobi was also present here. Young people just refused to leave the streets. And of course, it ended in tragedy when the security forces opened fire on, as the judicial panel found, on defenseless and unarmed young people who were just waving Nigerian flags, and they describe -- that judicial panel describe the events as a massacre.

So, what we're seeing here is worrying signs, and people who were in the protests at the time of reaching out to me, concerned that the events are unfolding. First, there was a state of emergency declared, and then the military was drafted in and then that event that I described where security forces opened fire. So, they're really concerned, telling me that they really hope that the protests in Nairobi do not degenerate into a situation where there is a standoff between the military and young people, who seemed very determined to make their voices heard and to really just say to President Ruto that they will not be moved, that they will not accept these tax hikes.

But, many of these African leaders who are -- can be described as authoritarian, have the same playbook, and many are concerned that the tragedy may unfold at the end of these protests, Rahel.

SOLOMON: Well, and Stephanie, as we look at these images that are no doubt troubling, talk to me a little bit about the reaction. We have heard regionally from other African leaders about what we're witnessing, I mean, as Larry said, at the end of his report there. I mean, you think about Nairobi. You think about Kenya. You think about an economic powerhouse. I mean, these are not necessarily scenes that one might expect to see. So, talk to us about the reaction we're getting.

BUSARI: Yes. So, we -- actually it's a bit muted at the moment. People are still waiting and watching how things will unfold. And African leaders are not wanting to speak out against their fellow leaders. But, what is interesting is that just on Monday, yesterday, President Biden named Kenya a major non-NATO ally. And then, we see the scenes unfolding. And don't forget that in May, President Ruto was invited to the White House and feted in a lavish steak dinner. And Kenya is gaining prominence on a global scale. Kenyan police officers are headed to Haiti, as we speak, to help to enforce a law and order there.

So, Kenya's reputation that it's building as a global leader, as someone that can stand head and shoulders with world leaders has taken a dent, when we see police officers tear gassing and water cannoning on unarmed protesters. People are protesting peacefully. And as the interior minister himself observed, it is their constitutional right to do that. So, Kenya's reputation really taken a dent here, Rahel.

SOLOMON: Stephanie, it's such a great point that you bring up there that state visit by the White House administration in late May. A state visit is the highest honor the U.S. administration can bestow upon a country. And you're right. Kenya is one of the few handful of countries that had been invited. So, really fascinating to see sort of how this is perceived in other parts of the world.

Stephanie Busari live for us there in Lagos. Stephanie, thank you.

I want to continue this conversation now and welcome in Nicodemus Minde. He is a researcher with the East Africa Peace and Security Governance Program at the Institute for Security Studies. He joins us from Nairobi. Nicodemus, let me just start first with your reaction to what we are seeing on the streets today.

[11:15:00]

Does it come as a surprise to you at all?

NICODEMUS MINDE, RESEARCHER, EAST AFRICA PEACE AND SECURITY GOVERNANCE PROGRAM: Well, later developments during the day are quite a surprise. But, up until the afternoon, the protesters were quite peaceful. We saw that in last week, and of course, the two days of last week, that is on Tuesday and Thursday. And today, they had also planned a peaceful protest until we saw them breaking into parliament buildings. Then it now turned to be bloody. So, to be honest, it's quite unprecedented, but I'm quite -- I'm also not so surprised because the Kenyan police are known to be quite brutal to protesters in general.

SOLOMON: Can you talk to us a little bit about what is actually in this bill. And we have previous reporting that the government was willing to make certain concessions, I want to say on bread, on other items. Just help us understand what is in this bill, and clearly, what has upset so many people there.

MINDE: So, this bill, the finance bill, is part of this budget cycle of 2024 and 2025 in which these are government projections in terms of how to collect revenues. And of course, as part of the attempt, it is actually to raise more taxes especially that will actually go to pay in a lot of external debt. So, this particular bill introduces a number of clauses in the recommendation, stocks recommendations, on income tax, excess duty, withholding tax, that covers a wide breadth of citizen issues. And of course, the government having noted a number of concerns were able to make a number of recommendations, including the concession around the 16 percent VAT that was to be introduced on bread, and of course a 2.5 percent on motor vehicles, on imported motor vehicles. So, this is part of the larger problem.

But, of course, the finance bill is also seen as triggered previous grievances such as misappropriation of government funding, funds especially, and then high runaway corruption, and of course, lavish spending by the government. So, this has actually sparked previous grievances, as seen by the street protests.

SOLOMON: Fascinating. So, talk to me a little bit about that, those concerns about government spending, those concerns about, at least from the protesters point of view, lavish lifestyles being lived by some in power there, but also the debt burden piece of this. MINDE: If you look at it from the -- an economic point of view, most of the Kenyan government budget that has been projected for 2024-2025 actually is going to cover debt, external debt. And of course, we are seeing that the budget cycle also introduces a number of expenses, which the protesters, and of course, not just protesters, ordinary citizens, see to be not within -- not very necessary, for example, renovation of the Deputy President premises. There is also a kitty, a big kitty that goes to the office of the spouses of the President and the Deputy President, which again has really angered this particular citizens.

And of course, this also -- may also see a number of introduction to -- these taxes actually targeting women and youth who are part of this younger generation, who feel that there is a strong tax burden that is already too much for them. If you look at the pay slips, for example, there is a lot of money that goes to housing levy, NHIF and other forms of taxation. So, it's already a big, big burden to these consumers. And of course, it makes life very difficult in terms of buying essential commodities, such as bread, oil and fuel.

SOLOMON: Nicodemus, you make such an interesting point there that there is real concerns about cost of living for people there, but it's also the optics about some of where, in this latest budget, the money would go. From your perspective, do you think if the government was to concede some of those renovations for example, do you think that that would go over better with protesters even if some of these tax increases were necessary?

MINDE: I think there was -- the finance bill timing and of course was very much I think --

SOLOMON: I'm sorry. Nicodemus, continue your thought.

[11:20:00]

Can you hear me?

MINDE: Yes, I can hear you. Should I proceed?

SOLOMON: Yes. Please.

MINDE: All right. So, I don't think there'll be any --

SOLOMON: OK. We may be having technical issues. Nicodemus Minde, we'll leave it here. But, we appreciate your insights and perspectives, as we try to better understand the legislation here. Thank you very much for the time.

I want to take you back now to some pictures. This is on the ground in Kenya, as we said, as protesters continue to protest. We'll have these photos for you after a quick break, continue to protest legislation there for tax hikes in this newest finance bill.

We're going to take a quick break. We're going to have more on our breaking news from Kenya after this.

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SOLOMON: Welcome back. We continue to keep a close eye on the situation in Kenya. Right now, there are reports of at least five people dead and 31 injured, as protesters clashed with police. Kenya's parliament was breached by demonstrators and parts of the building are on fire as well as City Hall. Looting, fires, tear gas, gunshots, people running for cover, as we see in some of these videos. Now, the crackdown comes after weeks of mostly peaceful protests against proposed tax hikes. We will continue to keep a very close eye on that and get back to that momentarily.

But now, to a groundbreaking decision by Israel's Supreme Court. Today, it ordered the government to draft ultra-orthodox Jews into the military and to withdraw funding from any religious schools whose students were direct (ph) draft notices. Now, the ruling could shake Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's fragile coalition which depends on two ultra-orthodox parties to survive. Israel's military, meantime, pressing ahead with attacks in Gaza despite plans to begin shifting forces for a possible war against Hezbollah.

The UN relief agency for Palestinian refugees says that a school- turned shelter was hit in northern Gaza, killing at least 12 people. And hospital officials tell CNN that at least 11 people died in another striker on a refugee camp, including family members of Hamas political leader Ismail Haniyeh. Israel's Defense Minister, meantime, in crucial talks with U.S. officials about the war and what comes after. Yoav Gallant is meeting with U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin this morning at the Pentagon.

Let's get more on all of this from Paula Hancocks, who is in Jerusalem. Paula, let's start with your reporting and these details from this new report about malnutrition in Gaza's children. What did they find?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rahel, this is a report that's out today from the IPC, which is effectively the UN's hunger monitoring system, and they have found that almost all of Gaza's population is at risk of famine over the next three months. They say some 96 percent, that's about two million people, if conditions don't end, so, if the conflict continues and if humanitarian aid continues to be restricted getting into the Gaza Strip.

[11:25:00]

And as we have discovered, as usual in this war, it is the young who are really bearing the brunt.

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HANCOCKS (voice-over): Amal, meaning hope, was born two months premature. She died after just four days, her family says, a baby born into war in northern Gaza. It's a result of her early birth, the Head of Pediatrics says, which is a result of malnutrition and starvation of her mother. This is the fourth child that's died in this department this week. Amal's father says they were displaced with no shelter, food or water, a real starvation, he says. My girl died because of this.

Hospitals across Gaza are full of malnutrition cases, doctors say, needing special care that simply does not exist. Younis is nine-years- old. His mother takes off his T-shirt to show the painful evidence of malnutrition and extreme dehydration. She says he was healthy until they were displaced multiple times from northern Gaza to Rafah to a beach area where she says they don't even have a tent. Food was no longer available, his mother says. There were bad living conditions and polluted water. I'm losing my son in front of my eyes. More than 50,000 children require treatment for acute malnutrition, according to the UN agency for Palestinian refugees, UNRWA.

Eight months of war have decimated the health system, water sanitation, and food distribution. Clean water has become a luxury many struggle to access. The IDF says there is enough aid in Gaza. The distribution is the problem.

JAMES ELDER, UNICEF: It's not just about getting it in and it's far too little coming in. That's why we have an unprecedented nutritional crisis for the youngest children in Gaza. It's not a safe place and an enabling way to deliver that aid.

HANCOCKS (voice-over): Aid groups say lawlessness on the ground is making their job of delivering aid to those who need it increasingly dangerous. Dr. Sherif Matar says he has seen around 120 children on this one day at the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Hospital. He estimates up to 20 percent of them was suffering from malnutrition, diarrhea, inflammation. Infections are prevalent, he says, caused by lack of sanitation or clean water. This boy is one and a half, he says. He weighs less than six kilograms. There is no subcutaneous fat. His body is effectively eating itself. The United Nations has already warned one million Palestinians will be at risk of starvation and death by mid-July. That is just weeks away. As with everything in this war, it is the young who bear the brunt.

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HANCOCKS: Now, back to this IPC report, they had said that in northern Gaza, famine was imminent back in March, but they said there were slight improvements because there were consistent food deliveries in March and April. We know that there was an additional land crossing that was allowed to open by the Israelis in northern Gaza. And we've heard from World Food Programme saying that if they are allowed to get enough food aid in and if there are less restrictions on what they can get into Gaza, then they know that they can make a difference. Of course, the other issue is the security of distribution as well. We've heard from many aid organizations that an increasing sense of lawlessness within the Gaza Strip is making delivery of this sort of food and water aid to some areas of Gaza increasingly dangerous. Rahel.

SOLOMON: Yeah. OK. Paula Hancocks live for us there in Jerusalem. Paula, thank you.

All right. Still to come, we are back on the ground in Nairobi following escalating protests there and across Kenya. We'll be right back.

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[11:30:00]

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SOLOMON: All right. Let's get back to our breaking news out of Kenya where, earlier, demonstrators stormed the parliament building in Nairobi. Police have been responding with water cannon, tear gas and live ammunition. Our CNN team on the ground has seen two bodies in the streets, and here is a look inside the parliament a short time ago.

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You can hear what appears to be breaking glass, as crowds make their way through. Other government buildings have also been targeted. City Hall, for example, was seen in flames. Protesters are angry over a bill that with levy new hikes, new taxes, as the country faces a cost of living crisis.

Let's get back over to CNN's Larry Madowo, who is on the scene. Larry, curfew just began. Give us a sense of if anything has changed and what you're seeing on the ground.

MADOWO: So, Rahel, the government told the protesters that they had to be out of the streets by 6:30 p.m. Local at sunrise -- sunset. It's now 6:31 p.m. So, they should be gone. This is some of them here in the city. But, we see the aftermath of today's protests. There is a burned-out shell of a car here that got -- I don't know, caught fire while outside City Hall. This is the seat of the governor of Nairobi. Part of that office here is still on fire. The fire brigade from the Nairobi City County government trying to put it out there, appear to have it under control. But, there is still a lot of smoke billowing from there. That's one scene.

But, as these protests have worn on, and as the day has worn on, we've seen also some protesters taking advantage of the anarchy created for general looting. I want to show you across the road here. This is a Carrefour market across from the Kenya Supreme Court that's been looted. And the police are now inspecting this. They have created this buffer here, the Supreme Court of Kenya, this is just a few 100 meters away from Kenya's parliament, to block the protesters from coming into parliament and from occupying it, which was their stated objective, (inaudible) days of rage, and today was supposed to be a total shutdown. That is why they were trying to access parliament. And we saw that response from the government.

I'm going to try and walk in here to this Carrefour market right outside Kenya's Supreme Court and see what it looks like inside. We can already see products out here. There is flour. There is sanitary pads. There is biscuits and all sorts of other things. I'm going to try and take a look inside and see what happened (TECHNICAL DIFFICULTY) in every way --

SOLOMON: All right. We have lost Larry's shot. As might be expected, we are having technical issues on the ground, as people take to the streets there to protest. We're going to take a quick break. We'll be back after this.

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[11:35:00]

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SOLOMON: All right. Let's get back to Larry Madowo on the scene there in Nairobi. Larry, we lost you a moment ago. But, again, give us a sense of what the latest is now that curfew has come and gone, obviously.

MADOWO: We've just -- we're hearing tear gas canisters being shot. That means the protesters are still here in the middle of the capital Nairobi, and police are trying to send them home, because the interior minister in Kenya said, after 6:30 p.m., they needed to have ended their protests and have gone home. But, this is what happened here. As the day wore on, they ransacked this Carrefour market and you see products all around this building. The manager tells us they shattered the building and got rid of the shatters, and you see products strewn all over the floor of that store over there.

This is the same scene in many other parts of Nairobi because people appear to be expressing their anger as the police's violent crackdown in what was largely peaceful protesters. You still see a lot of them here who are holding forts, as this curfew now is officially in place. It's not a curfew exactly. But, it's the end that the government stated that after dusk, after 6 p.m., the protesters should have left the city and have gone back home. We've seen a new truck of police come in in the last few minutes to reinforce those who are already here. This is outside the Supreme Court of Kenya and this is a buffer between the police come. Let's show this. We see the police have people -- some people down here and they are appear to be actively --

And I just want to show you what's happening here. A lot of police appear to have arrested some protesters and they're lying on the floor. I'm not sure why that is. And I'm not sure this is legal. The police cannot legally do this. They cannot beat them up. But, these are young men that the police have lying around here, including women. I'm not sure what they're looking for. And some of them are being cordoned into that police truck back there. There is at least 10 of them here. We see one policeman beating up a protester, who is not resisting. She is lying on the ground.

But, police still are using their batons to ransack their bags, and one by one, getting them inside the police truck back there. These are people who, I believe, have been arrested or had been detained because they were here after that 6:30 deadline for them to go home. This is looking through his bag. He has got (inaudible) in there, shoes, what appears to be schoolbooks and something like that.

I just want to go and sit there to see what's happening. Come with me and try and speak to some of these women who are being led inside the car. Why have you been arrested? You know why you've been arrested? UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I don't.

MADOWO: What were you doing?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were medics. We are helping the injured ones. We are just from there. And we are being told to enter.

MADOWO: So, the police appear to be arresting paramedics who are helping those who have been injured. She literally has gloves on. I'm not sure why they are being manhandled, and both of them have gloves on. So, they're clearly paramedics and that's what she says, as police trying to valiantly force them. Don't drag her. Don't drag her like that. All of them are paramedics who have the gloves on and they're still getting arrested and detained by police. They're not resisting. They're not violent. They don't appear to have any weapons.

But, police are still -- what is happening? Do you know what's happening, sir? Do you know what you're getting arrested?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know. I am getting arrested.

MADOWO: He appears to be using an inhaler there. So, he appears to have been affected by the tear gas and this handling by the police.

[11:40:00]

They're all now inside the truck. This is the response we've been seeing from the police the whole day, a little heavy-handed, a little irrational, a little unjustified because they're clearly posing no harm. They're helping other people who've been injured. And there have been many people who have been injured today hit by tear gas canisters, hit by water cannon. And there has been a lot of volunteer paramedics helping them through that process, Rahel.

SOLOMON: Wow. Larry, just really incredible scenes there, as we watch this unfold live. Larry, if I can stick with you for just a moment. Can you contextualize how many people were out there? We get this sort of small snippet based on your view of the lens, the camera lens of what's behind you. But, how many people have you seen? Give us a sense of how large these protests have grown.

MADOWO: Throughout the day, it's easily a few thousand people that I personally saw on the streets of Nairobi. Obviously, I didn't count them one by one. But, every single street we went through, Kenyatta Avenue and Moi Avenue and City Hall Avenue, in Parliament Road, there were hundreds and hundreds of young protesters holding banners, holding flags of Kenya, singing the national anthem, saying they're here to fight for their future. So, it could have been thousands of people out in the streets this year in Nairobi alone, but they were protests in Nakuru and Kisumu and Eldoret and other parts of the country. So, overall, I think it's a big show of disappointment and disillusionment, especially with the young people of Kenya, in the government of President William Ruto.

SOLOMON: And Larry, to that point, I mean, as we look at these images, they do appear to be mostly young protesters, but we've seen women as well. Talk to us a little bit about who you've seen out there.

MADOWO: The profile of these protesters has been one of the most interesting aspects of this, because typically, whenever there has been a contested election in Kenya, you've seen people come on to protest. That's always been by the opposition or by civil society groups when they think the government of the day has done some overreach. But, in this time, it's been mostly young people. I've met people here on the streets, as young as 18, mostly Gen Z, who were encouraged to come out because of TikTok, because of Instagram, because of social media, and X. And they have -- many of them protesting for the first time. They've never been out of the streets, and they felt like they had to come out here and declare that their future was at stake here. They could not stay silent anymore.

So, that's been extraordinary about these protesters, and their courage even in the face of tear gas and water cannon, and that heavy- handed police response.

SOLOMON: Yeah. And Larry, let me read for you something that I saw in a New York Times piece. President Ruto saying at a church service on Sunday that he was proud of the demonstrating youth, and promised to have a conversation so that together we can build a great nation. Based on your conversations with protesters, do they feel like there is a real sincere effort by the government to have a conversation, to meet these protesters where they are, and discuss some of their concerns?

MADOWO: The simple answer is no. If these people felt that President Ruto was genuine in his demand or in his asking for dialogue, they would not be here on the street on Tuesday because that happened on Sunday. President Ruto said he had heard the concerns of these young people. They come out without tribe, without age, that come out as Kenyans, patriotic citizens, to demand better, and he had heard them and he wanted to engage them. But, they felt that he lies. He lies all the time. And the only way to make sure that he hears them is by coming out of the streets of Nairobi, of Eldoret where President Ruto is from, of Kisumu, of Kericho, of Nyahururu, of Nyeri, everywhere across the country. So, no, the people of Kenya don't feel, they don't believe that President Ruto genuinely wants to talk to them and understands their plight.

SOLOMON: And Larry, if I might, talk to me a little bit about the optics of the moment. There is obviously this finance bill. But, as a guest told me a little bit earlier this hour, there are also concerns that there is mismanagement in terms of spending that there are extravagant purchases that some of the line items in this budget for renovations are such are simply not necessary. Talk to me a little bit about that.

MADOWO: There is a uniquely Kenyan phrase called budgeted corruption, which is that some money that's allocated for certain things, whether it's education or healthcare or infrastructure, will get stolen, will get stolen by corrupt officers in every level of government. And so, billions of dollars is lost to official corruption in Kenya every year. And these people will feel angry that for instance, President Ruto is renovating State House where he lives. The Deputy President's official residence is under renovation. Yet, President Ruto keeps telling them that we have to tighten our belts, that these are austerity measures that are necessary to make sure that he can balance the budget.

They are unhappy that President Ruto is on a trip almost every other week. He was in the U.S., had a big state visit there. And then he went to Korea, and then he went this place and he went to that place, and Kenyans don't understand how he can continue traveling with big entourages when they are getting taxed to pay for all that.

SOLOMON: And Larry, before I let you go, for those who may not have been to Africa, for those who may not understand the nuances of Africa and may have a more limited view of what Africa looks like, obviously, it is the continent, help us understand where you are and what that normally looks like, as opposed to what we are currently seeing.

[11:45:00]

MADOWO: This is 6:44 p.m. This would be a very busy street. It will be rush hour. There will be traffic out here. We're literally outside Kenya's Supreme Court. This is where decisions are made. This is where these judges from the Supreme Court of Kenya made history in Africa by becoming the first African country to invalidate the election of a President. They said it was not fair and they sent Kenyans back to the polls.

So, Kenya has always been one of those countries that's a shining light, a beacon of democracy on the African continent, where people can protest peacefully without getting harassed and shot out on the streets. It's a vibrant city. It's one of the biggest economies on the continent. And so, this does make a big dent in the reputation and the credibility of the country and of the democratic credentials that President Ruto has said he is so proud of.

SOLOMON: Yeah. Larry Madowo, we appreciate your reporting. Stay safe, and thank you.

And we'll be right back with more on our breaking news from Kenya. Stay with us.

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SOLOMON: Welcome back. As we continue to keep a close eye on the grounds of Nairobi there as people continue to protest that new tax bill, we want to turn our attention to some other news, including here in the U.S., this big election. We are now just two days away from a historic presidential debate right here on CNN. And for the first time in history, a sitting U.S. President will face off against a former President on the debate stage. And the stakes couldn't be higher as President Joe Biden huddles with top White House advisors at Camp David and Merrill Lynch (ph) who prepare, former President Donald Trump says that he is getting ready for Thursday's showdown by doing interviews and speaking at events.

For more now, let's turn to CNN's Arlette Saenz, who is at the White House. Arlette, you're hearing more about how the Biden camp is planning to frame the issue of the economy, obviously, a top issue for a lot of people watching. What have you heard?

ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Rahel, the Biden campaign has signaled that there are really three areas they believe they can draw a sharp contrast with Trump on the debate stage on Thursday. That includes abortion, democracy, and the economy. And it comes at a time where CNN is learning that some outside democratic advisors have been trying to relay message -- advice to the campaign about how exactly to message some of these economic arguments. In private conversations, some prominent Democrats have warned Biden against simply just trying to tout, take a victory lap around his economic accomplishments.

But, they believe he needs to more forcefully go after Trump to attack his economic vision, something that the campaign has been advised to do, is really to try to tie Trump directly to corporations and also highlight the inflationary impact of some of his economic policies. It comes at a time when Americans continue to have deep reservations about President Biden's role when it comes to the economy. Most polls have shown that voters give Trump a bit of an edge over Biden when it comes to economic issues. And there is a concern that if Biden is out there simply talking about all the great things that he has done, that that just hasn't sunk in with the way that American voters are feeling at this moment.

Now, the Biden campaign is really trying to lean into their economic messaging today. They released a new ad in battleground states, really trying to portray Donald Trump as someone who is only looking out for himself and not the American middle class. Take a listen.

[11:50:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump loves to attack Joe Biden --

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Joe Biden. Joe Biden.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- because he is focused on revenge, and he has no plan to help the middle class. He just give more tax cuts to the wealthy. Here is the difference. Donald Trump is only out for himself. Joe Biden is fighting for your family.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SAENZ: So, the campaign previewing a bit of what the President's messaging could be on that debate stage. Biden remains at Camp David with his senior advisors, preparing for this debate. We know that those debate preparations went late into the evening last night and are expected to continue through today, as they're really trying to run through all the possible scenarios, not just on policy, but also the demeanor that Trump might have on that debate stage.

So, the Biden campaign really trying to spend every last minute possible, preparing the President for this debate, as they realize how high the stakes are heading into this first in-person showdown between the two men since 2020.

SOLOMON: Yeah. Apparently hunkering down and enjoying lasagna for dinner, as we've heard. Arlette, as you pointed out, they're preparing in terms of the substance of the issues, but also being conscious of the style at hand and sort of preparing. Talk to us a little bit about what we know in terms of how the current President is preparing for any version of Donald Trump.

SAENZ: Yeah. Well, Biden is well aware of what Trump is like on the debate stage, having debated him two times before, back in 2020. I think a lot of voters can remember how contentious and chaotic and interrupting that first debate was. And so, the Biden team is really trying to prepare for all different scenarios. They are aware that there could be another moment like that playing out of this debate stage. They're hoping that the muting of the mics might help with some of those interruptions. But, advisors say that they're also fully prepared that a disciplined Trump could appear on the debate stage, potentially engaging in more substantive policy discussions.

So, Biden and his team, they really have been, over the years, meticulous prepares for these types of debates, not just having these discussions about the possible policy and messaging, but also running through those full 90-minute mock debates, really to game out what this can be in both policy issues, but also the physical, theatrical and choreography of a debate that takes place. So, that's all things that are running through at Camp David in these final 48 hours before the debate.

SOLOMON: And Arlette, just talk to us a little bit about the expectations game. We're seeing from both sides sort of trying to get in front of expectations. But, if you think, for example, about State of the Union, we saw performance from Joe Biden that many people from both sides, I think, were surprised by.

SAENZ: Yeah. And I think that when heading into the State of the Union, there had been many questions about the President's stamina and age. And advisors really felt that they walked away with it, quelling some of the Democratic bedwetting that had been taking place about Biden's performance. And so, for the Biden campaign, they are well aware that this will be likely one of the most highly watched, if not the most highly watched moment of the presidential debate so far. And so, they want to ensure that they're presenting him as a steady hand, trying to draw that contrast with Trump.

Now, Trump, on the other hand, has kind of been shifting in his debate expectations. He, for so long, has really tried to portray Biden as someone who is diminished in his mental faculties, potentially lowering the bar for what Biden could be like on the debate stage. Suddenly, you have a little bit of a shift from Trump, arguing that Biden is an experienced debater. He does well in debates. You're seeing some new expectation setting from the Trump campaign as well. Both teams fully aware of how many people will be watching this debate.

And really, the Biden campaign is also viewing this as a starting gun, a starting point for the campaign, as they believe more people will slowly start to tune in to the dynamics of this race the closer we get to the fall. Of course, this is the earliest debate in presidential history. And so, both men are aware of the stakes and are trying to take advantage of the moment as well.

SOLOMON: Yeah. Less than five months to go to the big day. Arlette Saenz at the White House. Arlette, thank you. And tune in to see the CNN presidential debate right here on CNN, coming up on June 27 at 9 p.m. Eastern, and we'll replay the debate in its entirety a few different times. You can watch it at 7 a.m. London time, that's 2 p.m. in Hong Kong, or 12 hours later at 7 p.m. in London, or 10 p.m. in Abu Dhabi.

All right. Now to some other international news we are following. Julian Assange is free. With that simple message from WikiLeaks, the 12-year-legal battle for its founder is apparently nearing its end. Assange boarded a plane in London and he has headed back to his home country of Australia, but not before a stop in the Northern Mariana Islands, a U.S. territory in the western Pacific. Assange is expected to enter a guilty plea in U.S. federal court there and avoid more prison time.

[11:55:00]

Now, under the agreement, prosecutors will seek a 62-month sentence, which is basically time already served in Britain. Assange faces charges for his alleged role in one of the largest security breaches of U.S. classified materials. His wife thanking supporters and crediting a worldwide movement to secure his freedom.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STELLA ASSANGE, WIFE OF JULIAN ASSANGE: Throughout the years of Julian's imprisonment and persecution, an incredible movement has been formed, a movement of people from all walks of life from around the world who support not just Julian, and not just us and our family, but what Julian stands for, truth and justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SOLOMON: Now, the White House says that it was not involved in this plea deal, calling it a quote, "independent decision by the Department of Justice."

Before we go, a quick update on the breaking news we have been following all hour long. In Kenya, a deadline for protesters in Nairobi to clear out from the streets has passed. That was at about 6:30. Local Time. So, a little less than 30 minutes ago. We have seen police making arrests. We have heard more tear gas fired. That's after a day of clashes, looting and fires. The parliament building was breached by demonstrators earlier, and there are reports of at least five people dead and 31 injured. We continue to keep a close eye and watch on the situation there. So, keep watching CNN for updates.

In the meantime, I'm Rahel Solomon in New York. One World is coming up next.

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