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CNN International: Democrats Concerned About Biden's Performance; Biden, Trump Share Debate Stage in Historic Showdown; Iranian Voters Head to the Polls to Choose Next President; High- Ranking Officials Among 17 Arrested in Failed Coup Effort in Bolivia. Aired 4-4:30a ET

Aired June 28, 2024 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think just look at the record, look at what I've done, look how I've turned around the horrible situation he left me.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Joe, our country is being destroyed as you and I sit up here and waste a lot of time on this debate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a deep, a wide and a very aggressive panic in the Democratic Party.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The point has to be performance in terms of what a president does.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at the big question of the night, who won the debate? We asked debate watchers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very concerning. That's somebody I don't think that needs to lead our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a warm welcome to our viewers joining us around the world. I'm Max Foster. It is Friday, June the 28th, 9 a.m. here in London, 4 a.m. in Atlanta, where Democratic sources are telling CNN they have major concerns about Joe Biden's performance in his debate with Donald Trump.

The candidates squared off at CNN World Headquarters in Atlanta last night. CNN analysts say Trump was often less than truthful and frequently avoided answering the moderator's questions. But President Biden appeared to stumble over his words and lose his train of thought on several occasions.

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BIDEN: Childcare, elder care, making sure that we continue to strengthen our health care system, making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I've been able to do with the COVID, excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with. Look, if we finally beat Medicare and I'm going to continue to move until we get the total ban on the total initiative relative to what we can do with more Border Patrol and more asylum officers.

JAKE TAPPER, ANCHOR: President Trump.

TRUMP: I really don't know what he said at the end of that sentence. I don't think he knows what he said either.

FOSTER: More now from CNN's senior U.S. national affairs correspondent, Jeff Zeleny.

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JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR U.S. NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: President Joe Biden delivered an unsteady and shaky performance at Thursday night's debate, sending alarm across the Democratic Party as former President Donald Trump outpaced him on stage in a historic setting in Atlanta, the battleground state of Georgia. The first time that two sitting presidents, one former, one current, have ever come face to face. Joe Biden failed to live up to his chief goal of trying to show strength and convince Democrats and other American voters that he's up to the task of a second term.

TRUMP: I really don't know what he said at the end of that sentence. I don't think he knows what he said either.

TRUMP: This place, the whole world is blowing up under him.

ZELENY: After the debate, Vice President Kamala Harris came to the president's defense. She said Democrats should focus on the record of the Biden administration, telling our Anderson Cooper this.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Anderson, the point has to be performance in terms of what a president does --

ANDERSON COOPER, ANCHOR: But that is what's scaring people watching this.

HARRIS: -- a president who incites an insurrection against the Capitol. No, but I got the point that you're making about a one and a half hour debate tonight. I'm talking about three and a half years of performance in work that has been historic.

ZELENY: With 130 days until Election Day, Democrats now find themselves in the familiar position of asking themselves the question that's been lingering for months. Is President Biden the party's strongest nominee? Those conversations, of course, will continue.

But of course, at the Democratic Convention in Chicago in August, he has the support of delegates. We'll find out if that changes in the months ahead.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: President Biden defended his performance during a stop at a Waffle House restaurant just after the debate. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think you did well?

BIDEN: Hard to debate a liar. New York Times pointed out he made a lie 26 times. Big liar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: I will fact check both candidates a little later in the hour, but this is how our CNN chief national correspondent John King and CNN political commentator Van Jones responded to President Biden's performance in the moments right after the debate.

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[04:05:03]

JOHN KING, CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There is a deep, a wide and a very aggressive panic in the Democratic Party. It started minutes into the debate and it continues right now. It involves party strategists. It involves elected officials. It involves fundraisers.

And they're having conversations about the president's performance, which they think was dismal, which they think will hurt other people down the party in the ticket. And they're having conversations about what they should do about it.

Some of those conversations include, should we go to the White House and ask the president to step aside? Others are -- other of the conversations are about should prominent Democrats go public with that call because they feel this debate was so terrible. They do say in moments in the debate later the president got better and got his footing, but then at the end, even his closing statement was a little halting.

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I just want to speak from my heart. I love that guy. That's a good man. He loves his country. He's doing the best that he can. But he had a test to meet tonight to restore confidence of the country and of the base and he failed to do that. And I think there's a lot of people who are going to want to see him consider taking a different course now.

We're still far from our convention and there is time for this party to figure out a different way forward if he will allow us to do that. But that was not what we needed from Joe Biden, and it's personally painful for a lot of people. It's not just panic. It's pain for what we saw tonight.

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FOSTER: Joining me from Washington, Republican strategist Rina Shah and in Los Angeles, political scientist at Occidental College, Caroline Heldman. Caroline, if I could start with you. We are in an extraordinary situation, aren't we, where, you know, after that debate, we're now talking, or Democrats are talking, about replacing their candidate.

CAROLINE HELDMAN, POLITICAL SCIENTIST, OCCIDENTAL COLLEGE: It is an extraordinary situation, Max. Biden was stumbling. He looked like a deer in headlights. He was looking down. His mouth was agape. It was just a very poor performance on his part.

So all of the fears that folks had going into this, that he wasn't going to be strong enough, that this framing of him being frail, he just didn't challenge that. In fact, he stoked those fears.

And I've heard for about the last year of Democrats saying, hey, he needs to step aside. You know, these are the two oldest candidates. They're the least popular candidates since we have been polling in the 1930s. And now those cries from Democrats will be louder.

I'm sure he's already being lobbied. And the question is whether or not Democrats do that publicly. Because the process is, right, that he has these delegates, and he would have to actually step aside and throw them to someone else.

And the fact that this debate took place so early means that there might be time for Democrats to form a movement and do that. I would anticipate they will at least try.

FOSTER: Rina, it will come down to a debate between President Biden and his family, wouldn't it? Because the decision would lie with him, because your system isn't set up for the party to ask someone.

RINA SHAH, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think we're sitting in a moment where we're in the worst case scenario for Democrats. You know, everybody always anticipated that this could happen, but nobody really gamed out exactly how somebody like Biden proceeds from here on out. And so, you know, there is a small cabal that does think about these things, but has it ever been activated?

In modern presidential history, we don't know the Democrats who have been in this moment. In fact, for months now, all the talk has been that Republicans will need to do something like a bait-and-switch in the moment where Trump becomes a convicted felon, which he now is. But, still, it seems that, after last night, the onus really is on the Democrats.

I don't know that it would be the family, so much as truly the Democratic Party leadership beyond Biden and Harris, to be able to want to be the ones to say, we want to put up someone else.

There is a lot of time still before Democrats convene in August for them to do so. There's also this window of time, as I have understood it, for Democrat leadership to do also a replacement of the nominee in the aftermath of the Democrats' convention.

For Republicans, it's a bit different, but, again, the calls are not coming from the Republican side. It seems entirely that it's not impractical to replace Biden, because Republicans will not stop. The calls will be relentless about him being too infirm to even finish his time in the White House for this term.

FOSTER: Caroline, I think some of the frustration that was coming through from the sources speaking to our panel earlier was that they keep being told by the Democratic leadership that he is fit and well in their meetings, and the suggestion now that they've been lying about that and they've all been exposed.

[04:10:05]

So the Democrat leadership have actually been failing the people, not just President Biden.

HELDMAN: Well, I would say his debate prep failed him if he's talking about taxes in his closing statement when he's going against a man who inspired a violent, you know, insurrection on January 6th. Yes, his prep was not great, and especially given the fact that he had an entire week of intensive prep for this. The last time we really saw him speak publicly in this sort of a forum, he actually went dark branded, right, at the State of the Union, and he did exactly what he needed to do.

And what he was saying tonight, and when his policy points got through, there was no cognitive decline. There were issues with communication. And so if it's just on policy and the issues, you know, Biden was clearly the person who was the most articulate in his positions in this debate.

I mean, Donald Trump, when he was in the White House, he lied, according to the Washington Post, 30,573 times over four years. And I was reminded tonight how easily he just, the lies just slip off his tongue. So if it was a matter of substance, Biden took it, but if it's a matter of style, which that's what debates are truly about, we really don't remember the issues.

Trump really knocked this out of the park. And it's important to note that in five presidential debates, this is the first one that he has won.

FOSTER: Rina, I mean, our fact checkers are saying there were clearly some lies coming from Trump as well. So that feels undeniable. But he got away with them because Biden, you know, couldn't get past a lot of his presentation to challenge Trump on those lies.

And a lot of people are saying, a lot of the analysts are saying that on substance, Biden won, but it basically didn't matter because he didn't challenge Trump and he didn't achieve the one job that was expected of him, which was to show that he was strong enough to continue.

SHAH: Well, I certainly didn't expect probably the first lie of the night to come from President Biden, where he said that he hadn't lost any members of the military in his time in office. I mean, are we forgetting the pullout from Afghanistan? That is where Trump nailed him continually.

You know, the deaths of 13 service members were not mentioned by Biden. And I think there was a moment in which I think everybody felt, how can this continue? It was a tough debate to watch when Trump brought out lie after lie.

And Biden at times couldn't even finish his sentence, felt confused at moments because of how he worded things. You know, I just think on its face, what we saw was truly Biden bringing a knife to a gunfight. I hate to use that cliche there, but it couldn't apply more.

I mean, this is a situation where you've got a former president who chose to take a certain direction with that debate last night when he saw what he was up against. Trump chose to use lies in the place of substantive policy points. Biden came again and again with what he's accomplished in office, but all that was glossed over because of his delivery.

So, again, places where Biden didn't land punches, I was disappointed. He could have done that with abortion. He could have nailed Trump on the border by saying that Trump never finished the wall that he promised.

So many missed opportunities. And that's why we are sitting in this place today where you truly have to question who can take down Trump. It seems like the juggernaut of Trump came back and many moderate Republicans feared that.

FOSTER: Caroline, if elected Democrats see themselves as vulnerable by having President Biden on the ticket, it's going to create a groundswell pretty quickly, isn't it?

HELDMAN: I think it's already started. If you just look on Twitter or X and other social media platforms, you see prominent Democrats, most of them not elected officials, very few of those so far, but calling for this consideration. And the process really would be, though, that Biden would have to voluntarily step aside because it would be unprecedented in August to have at the Democratic National Convention to have pledged delegates for Biden go for someone else.

It would really take a lot to move or to turn this ship. And it would require probably Biden to step aside. It's just -- it would be a long shot for the Democrats.

And this late in the game, you know, both of these candidates are so disliked. About 80 percent of Americans want other candidates. So if the Democrats were to replace Biden with another candidate, that candidate could possibly make up that time very quickly and do much better than either of the candidates right now who are, as I pointed out, highly disliked by the vast majority of Americans.

[04:15:04]

FOSTER: Which leaves extraordinary situation where in Trump's interests, he probably wants Biden to stay on his chief opponent. Caroline and Rina, I really appreciate your analysis this morning. CNN political director David Chalian has the results of a flash poll of debate watchers. He asks who they thought would win the debate and then who did win the debate.

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DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: This is a poll of debate watchers, so this is not necessarily representative of the electorate overall, although I will say as a partisan makeup, these debate watchers do pretty much look like registered voters, maybe about four or five percentage points more Republican than the usual universe of registered voters. So just to keep that in mind, as you see these results, that little bit of shift won't make a difference here. Look at the big question of the night.

Who won the debate? We asked debate watchers in our instant poll. And the answer is a resounding Donald Trump did. 67 percent of debate watchers in our poll say Donald Trump won the debate tonight. Joe Biden, 33 percent say he won the debate tonight.

Now, this group of debate watchers, they told us who they thought would win the debate going into it before the debate. And take a look at how that changed over time. 55 percent thought before the debate that Donald Trump would win the debate. 45 percent thought Joe Biden would win the debate.

Look at what the debate did to those expectations. That's when Donald Trump did much better than expected. Joe Biden did worse than expected among this group.

And compare this to these two men debating four years ago. That's not always a comparison we have. Obviously, the rematch is pretty unique.

And so take a look at the complete reversal. Again, that top line there is the debate tonight. 67 percent say Trump won. 33 percent said Biden.

The next line is the second debate in 2020 where Biden won there by about 14 percentage points. 53, 39 in our instant poll that night. This looks a little bit more like the first debate. Chris Wallace moderated, 60 percent, Joe Biden won that debate that night. 28 percent said Donald Trump won the debate that night. You can see how this night sort of is a complete reversal of that one.

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FOSTER: In the debate, CNN's Laura Coates was in the pivotal swing state of Michigan to gauge voter reaction to the key policy issues is what some had to say.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would have to say after watching the debate and watching how Biden hand himself and answering the questions, it reassured me of my his un-assurance, be able to lead our country. I'm concerned he was hesitant, very not cognitive, seemed like his data, he was missing his numbers. So very concerning. That's somebody I don't think that needs to lead our country.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm looking for somebody that I trust to be able to uphold policies that will protect me and are more concerned for the general well-being of everybody in the United States, which I got more from Biden considering he did a lot more talking about policies, what he's done and what he plans to do.

Whereas on the other side from Trump, all I really heard was I've done this and it was the best ever. But I never heard what it was or I heard that Biden was the worst ever, but I never heard why.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think that his mental acuity is a lot better than Biden's. Biden seems to be very tired. Actually, I'm tired of both of them because they just keep going back and forth, back and forth. We just need to get some younger people in there that have clean records that -- start over.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOSTER: This hour, a deeper dive into the showdown, the zingers, the missed opportunities and the malarkey.

Plus, Iranians are voting for their next president right now. We'll have a live report from Tehran on the issues in the big picture from that region next.

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FOSTER: Voters in Iran are heading to the polls right now for the country's presidential election. They're choosing from a tightly controlled group of four remaining candidates, three conservative hardliners and one comparative moderate. Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, cast his ballot in the capital, Tehran, earlier. That's when polls opened.

If no candidate wins at least 50 percent plus one vote, a runoff will be held. The election was called after the death of President Abraham Raisi and other officials in a helicopter crash last month.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen joins us now live from Tehran. Getting a sense of the turnout there, Fred.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, Max. We're actually inside a polling station inside the famed Hosseiniyeh Ershad Mosque here in Tehran. And you guys, you can see voting is already very much underway. I'll explain the process a little bit to you. The folks come here.

Hi, how are you, sir? Good morning.

The folks come in here, they hand in their documents to make sure that they are verified. Then they get their ballot papers. You can see here they get a sort of receipt, get their ballot papers verified a little bit further on. And then over there at the end of the table -- you'll see it as well. That is where the ballot box lies.

And we have seen a good amount of people already turning up here at the Hosseiniyeh Ershad Mosque, the ballot box again right there.

But you are absolutely right. Traditionally in these elections is, of course, the supreme leader of Iran, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who is the first to vote. We were actually on hand as he casted his ballot. And I just want to show you what happened there. Let's have a look.

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PLEITGEN: As is customary, the supreme leader is the first to cast his ballot in Iran's presidential election, and he has called for high voter turnout. But this time, the supreme leader has also warned Iranians not to trust politicians who are too keen on better relations with the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PLEITGEN (on camera): So that was the supreme leader very early this morning, again, the first person to cast his ballot in this presidential election.

Of course, as you mentioned, there are essentially three conservatives or people that we considered conservatives who are still in this race, also one moderate in this race as well. It's unclear whether or not one of the candidates is going to be able to achieve that 50 percent majority to be able to become the next president in the first round or whether or not there's going to be a second round.

The big thing that Iranians are looking at, certainly as we heard there from the supreme leader, that he is looking at as well is voter participation and whether or not it is going to be higher than the last couple of elections where it has been fairly low -- Max.

FOSTER: With three quarters of the candidates being hardline, it suggests that, you know, the person who wins this is most likely to be a hardliner.

PLEITGEN: Well, that could very well be. You're absolutely right, Max. However, the sense that we're getting on the ground here, it's actually a really interesting and key question when you're on the ground and you speak to folks here in Tehran.

Of course, you look at other places as well. You do feel that the sort of moderate camp does have a lot more momentum than it has had in the past couple of years. If you look at, for instance, the last presidential election where Ebrahim Raisi was elected, there really wasn't a moderate candidate in the final round to be able to take part and challenge Ebrahim Raisi.

In this case, you do have Masoud Pezeshkian, who some people believe might have a chance to make it to the next round and might even have a chance to win this thing. We were actually at one of his campaign events, which didn't really get underway because it got shut down before it could get underway. But the people were there and they did tell us that they believe that there could be a chance there.

The big question, I think, for the moderate camp really is, Max, what the turnout is going to be. They believe if the turnout is higher, they might have a chance to at least get into the second round.

Of course, then everything is up for grabs. But you are absolutely right. There are two very strong conservative candidates in the race as well.

Mohammad Bagher Ghalibaf, of course, is the current speaker of Parliament.

[04:25:00]

And Saeed Jalili, who many in the West will still know as having once been Iran's chief nuclear negotiator -- Max.

FOSTER: OK, Fred Pleitgen in Tehran with you throughout the day as that voting unfolds. Thank you.

Several high-ranking intelligence and military officials are amongst those under arrest after a failed coup in Bolivia. Of the 17 people accused of trying to overthrow the country's government, authorities say most were members of the Bolivian military, including former Navy Commander General Juan Arnez and Army General Juan Jose Zuniga. The two led military forces to occupy the main square in the capital, La Paz, on Wednesday, where armored vehicles rammed the door of the presidential palace.

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EDUARDO DEL CASTILLO, INTERIOR MINISTER OF BOLIVIA (through translator): General Juan Jose Zuniga has not acted alone. Admiral Juan Arnaz has not acted alone. And today we have demonstrated it with the apprehension of 17 people.

Evidently, there are many more people who have participated in the failed coup d'etat. It is time to get the coup plotters out of our country, get the coup plotters out of the streets, get the coup plotters out of the barracks and put them behind bars.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: As he was taken into police custody, Zuniga claimed Bolivian President Luis Arce put him up to the coup effort in an attempt to increase the president's popularity. But Zuniga provided no evidence and President Arce denies any involvement in the coup.

Turning to Kenya, where renewed anti-government protests led to clashes between demonstrators and police on Thursday. Police could be seen firing tear gas canisters at protesters, who once again took to the streets of Nairobi, demanding justice for demonstrators killed in earlier protests and calling for the resignation of President Ruto.

Those protests come after a controversial tax bill sparked clashes that killed at least 23 people, a local organization reports. Kenya's president scrapped the legislation after the deadly demonstrations.

A powerful 7.2 earthquake shook parts of southern Peru early on Friday morning. It was centered around 600km, about 370 miles, southeast of the capital city of Lima. And some people felt the tremor there.

Residents say the quake was very long and it was strong enough to shake them from their beds. Fortunately, officials say no deaths have been reported. The earthquake triggered a tsunami warning for a time, but the threat has since passed.

The Trump-Biden showdown marked the first time a sitting president and former president ever debated. We'll have a closer look at their clash and the cringe-inducing moments that came with it.