Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
Trump Injured in Shooting at Pennsylvania Rally; Biden Grateful Trump is Safe and Doing Well; FBI Identifies Trump Shooter as Thomas Matthew Crooks. Aired 1-2a ET
Aired July 14, 2024 - 01:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[01:00:00]
DAVID MCCORMICK, WITNESS AND PENNSYLVANIA REPUBLICAN SENATE CANDIDATE: -- went immediately to it -- to the ground, to people on their knees or laying down on the ground. And then the seat -- then the president got up and sort of was surrounded by the secret service. And you see this -- you could see him just with a little bit of blood on him and his -- you know, his sort of fist came out in defiance.
And then, over my shoulder, behind me, it was clear that somebody had been hit. And so, people around this gentleman were trying to administer first aid. And he was clearly -- this person was clearly injured. It seems severely. There was a lot of blood. And eventually, some police officers came up and carried him to where I hope he got the urgent care and obviously praying for him now.
So, that was what I saw. I saw the immediate attack on the president and I saw the fact that this person behind me was injured. But you can imagine with that kind of incident happening, very hard to know what's coming. In fact, I'm not sure whether it was one shooter or two shooters. I couldn't really tell. It seemed like the shots were coming from my front.
So, to the pres -- from the president's left, but -- which would've made sense why the person behind me was hit, but I'm not sure if there was also shots coming from other directions. So, it was -- as you might imagine, it was chaotic and confusing in, in the moment.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: David McCormick there, eyewitness to the shooting. I'm Jim Sciutto. Our breaking news coverage continues.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.
SCIUTTO: Hello and welcome. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. A difficult day in this country's history. The FBI now says that the shooting that injured Former President Donald Trump was an assassination attempt.
The FBI and state police in Pennsylvania held a news conference a short time ago, they said they are now working to confirm the gunman's identity. They do not yet have a motive. Here's a look at how it all happened on Saturday as the cameras were rolling.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I really see something that said, take a look at what happened --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down, get down, get down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold, hold. When you're ready. On you. Move. Move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hawkeye's here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hawkeye's here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we ready? Are we good to move?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shooter down. Shooter down. Shooter's down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooter's down. Are we good to move?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're clear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're clear, we're clear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's move. Let's move.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're clear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're clear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you, sir. I got you, sir.
TRUMP: Let me get my shoes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, we got to get moved to the bus.
TRUMP: Let me get my shoes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Moments playing out before our eyes there as you saw and heard, there were a series of pops. President then raising his hand to the side of his face as it happened. Secret Service rushing him off the stage after the president first said, it sounded like, let me get my shoes, and then he wanted to take a moment there to raise his fist for the crowd before they then moved him to the armored limousine there to be taken away to a hospital, in fact.
As he was being taken from the stage, you could also see that there was blood on the side of his face. The Secret Service says suspected shooter dead. In fact, here is a video which appears to show the gunman after he was shot and killed on the roof of a building, just a couple of 100 yards away from the stage from which Trump was speaking. You could see it better there on the map. The shooter on top of that building at the top, the stage just there in the center, the distance between them, perhaps the length of a couple football fields. Officials also say that one attendee at the rally was killed, two others critically injured. The FBI is now appealing to the public for help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN ROJEK, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, FBI PITTSBURGH OFFICE: This evening we had what we're calling an assassination attempt against our former president, Donald Trump. It's still an active crime scene. As I mentioned, we have a number of agents on scene. We also are working closely with other federal agencies, our state partners and our local police partners as well.
[01:05:00]
Again, at this time, we are not prepared to identify who the shooter is. We are close to that identification. And as soon as we are 100 percent confident in who that individual is, we will share it with the press. With that being said also, we do not currently have an identified motive. Although, our investigators are working tirelessly to attempt to identify what that motive was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: The FBI was asked for its response to the number of shots the shooter was apparently able to get off. FBI said it is surprising. That's possible. Here's part of a statement Trump posted on social media. I was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear. I knew immediately that something was wrong in that I heard a whizzing sound, shots, and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin.
We are seeing the first video of Donald Trump since the shooting. Trump campaign's deputy communications director posted a video to X, formerly Twitter, of the former president walking down the steps there in New Jersey, captioning it, strong and resilient, he will never stop fighting for America.
The White House says U.S. President Joe Biden spoke with Trump earlier on Saturday, following the shooting, he has now returned to the White House early from Delaware. President Biden has been calling for unity in the shooting's aftermath. He says he's grateful to hear that Trump is safe and well. Here's the president earlier condemning political violence, calling it sick. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: There's no place in America for this kind of violence. It's sick. It's sick. It's one of the reasons why we have to unite this country. We cannot allow for this to be happening. We cannot be like this. We cannot condone this.
The Trump rally was a rally that he should have been able to be conducted peacefully without any problem. But the idea, the idea that there's political violence or violence in America like this is just unheard of. It's just not appropriate. Everybody, everybody must condemn it. Everybody.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: CNN's Danny Freeman joins us now from Butler, Pennsylvania. And we heard from the FBI and police that they believe they know who the shooter is. They're waiting to confirm his identity, but they've not identified a motive. There's a long way to go on this investigation.
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: An incredibly long way to go, Jim, in this investigation, and really, that press conference gave us really our first idea of just how massive this investigation is going to be, not just because there's going to be the federal aspect, as you've been noting, that they, the FBI, are officially calling this an assassination attempt.
And I'll just note that while we've known this since, of course, the moment happened, hearing it coming out of the special agent in charge's mouth earlier this evening is still just difficult to hear. But also, the Pennsylvania State Police, they're investigating the homicide of that rally goer and also the shooting of two other rally goers who at this time are still in a critical condition.
But, Jim, to get back to your initial question and point, the two biggest questions, of course, how in the world could this have happened? And then, who was this shooter? At this point, we know that the shooter was killed by the U.S. Secret Service, but the FBI is only saying that they have a tentative ID and they're waiting on biometric confirmation to -- before they actually put the name out.
And it actually seemed like they very much do want to put the name out because they want more information about this person so that they can actually begin to answer some of the questions like what was the motive? But they said at this point, it's just too early to tell that. They also said -- the FBI said it's too early to tell how long this shooter was perched on that roof before he opened fire. And then, also they said it was too early to tell for sure whether or not this was a lone wolf, though they did say they believe the threat at this point has been neutralized.
But then, Jim, to the question that a number of reporters were asking this evening, all to the effect of how in the world could this have happened, we still don't have a lot of answers at this point. I asked specifically, Jim, the FBI special agent in charge, was this a failure of security, which seems, of course, to be a massive failure of security here, but all he was able to say at the moment was, we're still investigating and we're still assessing what specific failures may have led to this moment.
And the other thing, Jim, I'll note, is that a lot of the questions that reporters had about what went wrong here were referred to the U.S. Secret Service. And at this point, the Secret Service was not at that press conference earlier this evening. The FBI said that a representative was not able to come forward.
But Jim, the last thing I'll note is I want to talk about what you had briefly mentioned that the FBI, Pennsylvania State Police and other law enforcement agencies, they are all going to be putting together a massive investigation. And because of that, they really are encouraging the public and people who were at that rally to reach out to them with information. That means cell phone videos, any information you might know about, of course, the shooter or anything that happened in that crucial and terrifying moment that we all witnessed live on television, please reach out to these law enforcement agencies so they can paint a picture and really understand what happened not too far from where we're standing at the Butler Police Department tonight, Jim.
[01:10:00]
SCIUTTO: Listen, we've already got a lot of video views from that event. Some of them coming from people who were witnessing it. I imagine the FBI would be watching greatly interested in any other angles that might answer some of these questions. Danny Freeman, thanks so much.
So, speaking of some of these videos that have been coming in, this is one we want to draw attention to. The video itself, hard to follow, but it's what you hear from witnesses, both prior to the shooting, during and after, that's interesting. Have a listen, and we'll discuss after.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: And look what happened to our country. Probably (INAUDIBLE). And you know that's a little --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got a gun.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's on top of the roof. We got to go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stay under here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's on top of the rood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't go over there. He's on the roof, buddy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's dead. I just seen his hair blew off. They shot him in the head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if they hit anybody over there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he pull up a shot?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He -- number of shots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought that was us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, that was him. The first two or three shots were him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Blows my mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go. He's on the roof right there. He's right there on the roof.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: What's notable from the top of that video is that you hear people, they're yelling, he's got a gun, prior to the shots being fired. They appear to have seen him there before he was able to take these shots at the president. So, now, I want to take your attention to another video. It shows a different angle, also very revealing from this perspective, because here you can see what appears to be the Secret Service Counter Snipers, as they're called, on the roof of a building just behind President Trump there, looking in the direction of where the shooter was.
And in fact, you could see the gun, the rifle of the counter sniper there jolt a little bit at the first sounds of gunfire before then they fire back. And later, at the lower part of your screen there, you can see after they fire those shots back, the -- there they are. Secret Service agents rushed to the stage to take president -- former president down to the ground and then to safety.
We're joined again by retired FBI supervisory special agent and CNN law enforcement contributor Steve Moore. Steve, it's good to have you back. First, I want to start with what is really the most important point today and just how close this what appears to be a lone gunman got to potentially killing a former president, current candidate for president. I mean, these were half inches, perhaps, away, right, given that one of the bullets appears to have struck his ear from a far worse outcome.
STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR AND RETIRED SUPERVISORY SPECIAL AGENT, FBI: Yes, and what's terrifying to me as a former sniper is the level of the of the shot. I mean, generally, a sniper is going to shoot at the at an area between the eyebrows and the top of the cheeks. And that's about where this bullet passed. It was certainly almost perfectly aimed.
And I think we might find that the former president turned his head just as the trigger was dropping. It could be one of the most incredible miracles of this whole time that the president moved his head So, yes, it's -- that struck me. And that's horrible phrase, but that really got to me on this thing.
The other thing that's interesting here and that I think we should really point out is that while what we see is very important to us and what we hear is not necessarily telling us the truth.
[01:15:00] If this was a high-powered rifle, the bullets were traveling faster than the speed of sound, which means they're going to pass the target before the sound gets there. So, by the time people in the audience are hearing the bullets go by, they've already gone. And there is also a secondary sound that sometimes you hear, which will make you think that there's more gunfire than there is because the bullet going by has -- breaks the speed of sound. You get a little crack from the breaking of the speed of sound. Then you get the sound of the gun that fired it, bang, bang. And it'll sound like two rounds. So, they're going to have to recreate this entire thing using visual to inform the audio.
SCIUTTO: Yes, I did not know and learned something just there that that a shooter, a sniper, as you described, might aim for just exactly that area above the ear, center of the head, which seems to be where the shooter was aiming.
Before I get to the questions about what was missed here, in terms of security preparations, and again, it's early, I want to get to the response, and perhaps we could show the video again as to how quickly those -- not agents not only fired, the counter snipers, but also the agents that got up onto the stage, surrounded the president, brought him down to the ground, waited for confirmation that the shooter was down and then moved him onto his vehicle. As you look at that response, what are you thinking?
MOORE: I was struck, first of all, by how quickly the -- and accurately the counter snipers engaged the target. That was number one. Number two is I don't know how many counter snipers there were, having only two and having them in the same place doesn't seem to be something that -- you know, my -- the tactics my organization used, we would want two or three in different locations so you could triangulate anywhere in the location. So, nobody would be blocked.
So, I'm not convinced necessarily that those were the only two counter snipers that were at the location. It could be. But if that was the case, then I want to ask questions about that. Then you get to the immediate protection around the president. If you listen to them discussing, what you're hearing is a finally tuned cadence of instructions, of questions to each other, of orders and of queries, you know, do we have this? What's going on? Let's move. This kind of things. It's obviously so well trained that it's ingrained in them.
And keep in mind, the former president of the United States has just been shot. They don't know how seriously, yet they maintained their training, their composure, and it was very impressive how even in this circumstance they didn't let things get out of hand.
SCIUTTO: No question. I should note that that vision we have, the view, perspective we have of those two counter snipers just happens to be the angle of that particular video. It doesn't mean that's the only -- it's CNN's reporting, those were not -- those were the only counters snipers, they could have been on the tops of other buildings in the area.
MOORE: Right. SCIUTTO: I do want to ask you a question in that I've been told by former Secret Service agents that in a situation like this, you surround the president and you move him out quickly. There was a moment, and perhaps we can show this again, where the president is saying, let me get my shoes. And he wants to pause. Takes that moment to shake his fist and say, fight, fight, fight. Is that part of protocol to wait there for that moment or would the protocol be get him out regardless of what he says or wants to do?
MOORE: The protocol at that point is -- and again, I was FBI, not Secret Service, but I worked with them on some projects. The protocol at that point, to the best of my knowledge, is this person is potentially wounded or potentially about to get wounded. And they don't understand the situation as well as you do because that little coily thing in their ear, which is telling them all the tactical information they need is not also in the president's ear.
So, he doesn't know what he should be doing and they do. That was something that they probably would rather him have not done. They might've been surprised by it. I think in the hot washer, the debrief on this incident, they're going to discuss. What do we allow the president to do? And why did we allow him to do that? I'm not criticizing. I'm just saying that that subjected him to more risk. And that certainly wasn't what the agents there wanted to happen.
[01:20:00]
SCIUTTO: Final question just on -- questions about what may have been missed. Again, we made the point last hour, the Secret Service, you only know about their failures, of course, right? And they are significant there. They have a job to protect to protect candidates for president and the president as well as senior cabinet officials, et cetera/ They foil a lot of plots. They work hard every day. Let's set that aside for a moment. This was a failure though because shots got very close to the to the former president.
Is there anything you see in the security setup of this site that indicates to you that something was missed?
MOORE: I can, I can tell you, Jim, that first of all, I have the utmost respect for Secret Service. The FBI generally does. We just think they're a very professional organization. But I, as a former counter sniper would wonder why you had high ground uncontrolled outside of your perimeter. That would concern me.
And again, like we said last hour, they have to be right every time. And the bad guys only have to be lucky one time. My guess is that they didn't absolutely just ignore that rooftop. My guess is that there was something that should have accounted for that rooftop that didn't, something that fell through the cracks. I can't imagine security plan allowing that position to go unguarded.
SCIUTTO: And we should note that those officers that stood up and surrounded the former president there knew that they might be putting themselves between the former president, the target, and the gunfire. So, certainly in that moment, we saw a lot of sacrifice or willingness for sacrifice. Steve Moore we do appreciate your time.
Well, CNN's Elena Treene, she spoke to a doctor who was sitting right behind Donald Trump in the bleachers as those shots were fired. He says he helped carry the body of another rally attendee who was killed in the shooting. Describing the moments afterwards as "complete pandemonium."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. JOSEPH MEYN, ATTENDED TRUMP RALLY: Well, I was attending the rally. It seemed initially like firecrackers went off. It was a little -- it was very confusing initially because, you know, I knew it was gunfire, but I couldn't quite tell where it was coming from. It sounded like it was coming from behind the bleachers and the man in the bleachers, kind of to the right of me, in the bleachers took a gunshot wound to the head who was killed and another woman -- like I don't know exactly where she was on the bleacher. I think she was either behind me or to the right of me. And she got around in the -- she got hit in the forearm and hand it looked like, but it just -- if she was wounded, she wasn't killed.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Can I ask you how you're feeling? Obviously, you just witnessed something terrible happen. A lot of chaos was in the room. How exactly are you feeling right now, Joseph?
DR. MEYN: You know, it's something you don't expect. You know, it's a bolt out of the blue. So, it's very shocking. It's just -- I think a lot of people in the crowd just thought it was fireworks going off. I knew immediately it was gunshots. I -- you know, I knew they were close. And then when I saw someone get hit and go down that's when I knew it was probably serious.
You know, there was a lot of confusion. It's just massive confusion, you know, throughout the event. I saw Donald Trump get hit. It looked like he had -- you know, he was either -- I was running my camera at the time, but it looked like he was just turning to the -- he was turning his head to the side and it looked like he got grazed in the right ear with a bullet. I kind of saw that go on and then I looked down, I saw the man, you know, died in the bleachers.
It was just complete pandemonium, like every -- you know, there was a bit of a delay, like there was a lot of confusion, but immediately, you know, it seemed like more gunfire erupted. I couldn't figure out where that was coming from. And then, you know, there was a state policeman there, I believe a SWAT team, you know, showed up relatively quickly. They jumped to the side. There was a fence, you know, it was next to the bleachers. They jumped the bleachers and started clearing the bleachers.
And then I helped carry the body of the man down out of the bleachers and I took him to a tent behind the bleachers. We put a towel over his head, but he's deceased.
TREENE: You were telling me before when we were chatting briefly that you never had a chance to make it to a Trump rally, that this was your first time. DR. MEYN: Yes.
TREENE: Would you feel safe coming back to another Trump rally?
DR. MEYN: Yes. You know, it's a very random event that happens. You know, I feel safe generally where I go in the country, you know. I think the problem is, is we have a very -- everyone seems very angry and, you know, it makes you kind of -- you know, I'll go to a Trump rally again, but I'll think twice.
[01:25:00]
You know, you definitely want to have your head on the swivel. It just seems like there's a lot of angry people out there and I'm not shocked that this happened. I'm shocked that I was sitting there and it happened next to me. Obviously, you don't -- you never anticipate that to happen, but it's just horrible. You know, we shouldn't be at a level of political discourse in this country where this is going on. It feels like it's 1960 again. You know, it's just -- it's horrible.
TREENE: Can you describe for me, Joseph, what happened after you saw the shots? And I mean, I was there as well. Secret Service was screaming for everyone to get down. They quickly tried to clear the area. I'm just curious what that process was like for you in the aftermath.
DR. MEYN: Very confusing. Like I said, I think everyone was in the bleachers. It was initially confusing when the gunshots erupted. Half -- I think the crowd thought it was fireworks. I think someone thought they were playing a joke. And you know, the people were close to the people that got injured and killed. You obviously know it wasn't a joke and it was -- it seemed like there was a push pull on the crowd. And that is the one half of the crowd on the far end of the rally thought it was some type of weird joke. The other half of the crowd knew it wasn't. Was trying to push or impress upon the rest of the crowd that this is serious. And I think everyone got the idea very quickly that it was a dangerous situation and everyone just started hitting the deck.
And, you know, kudos to the Secret Service, you know. Again, you know, when you're in these situations, a second feels like it's an hour, but it seemed like authorities were there very quickly. It just seemed to me, like I said, I was sitting there, it seemed like the rounds came from behind, and they got this -- they hit the gentleman in the head. You know, he got a gunshot wound to the head, and the other lady was injured, and then I saw Trump -- President Trump, you know, get hit and it looked like I was right here.
But it seemed, initially, everyone was -- like half the crowd was in shock and the other half thought it was some type of weird joke. And it just -- it took a bit for everyone to get a good understanding of what was going on.
TREENE: You mentioned that you had spoken with the person who ended up falling, I believe you said, or he was with his whole family? DR. MEYN: No, his family watched it happen. So, they were in the bleachers when he got hit and he went down. I think they were trying to figure out what was going on. They were screaming for help.
The body was -- they put a towel over the man's head. The body was removed from the bleachers. Then the police came back, you know, right after and tried to move the family. But they were all in shock. They didn't quite -- they weren't processing what was going on. The man was definitely -- he was dead the minute he was hit. I mean, it was something that reminded me of the Zapruder film from Kennedy.
I mean, it was -- his head snapped and that was it. And I just -- I caught it out of the corner of my eye and, you know -- and then there was just pandemonium. And again, you know, it's Pennsylvania. You don't -- you know, you're out in rural Pennsylvania. You don't really anticipate this is going to happen, but it happened.
TREENE: You mentioned -- and I'm sorry, I know this is very emotional for you as well. You mentioned that, you know, this was your first Trump rally. How are you feeling about the election now? What are you hoping to see moving forward? We've already seen a lot of statements of support from across the aisle come in for the former president. I can tell you, too, from our sources that they say that Donald Trump is OK, that he is at a local facility being treated.
But I would love just your view on -- I know you came here today to support the man that -- you know, the former president. I'm curious how you think about this now. I know it's a hard question given the chaos that we're currently in and the adrenaline that we're both face -- feeling right now. But if you can share any of those insights.
DR. MEYN: It solidifies my support. I -- you know, I understand, you know, people believe that Trump's -- well, they know, he's a bombastic, they don't really like him, he's a very polarizing figure, he has an abrasive personality, but I truly believe he has the best interests of the country at heart.
And you know, you make a point. You know, the man's a billionaire. He could be sitting in the -- and like you said, he was sitting at the rally joking about it, he's like, I could be sitting in the Mediterranean on a yacht enjoying my life, but I'm not, I'm trying to help run the country. It puts in perspective there's a real cost for that.
I mean, there's some people that really want him dead. And to me, this is just ridiculous. Like, you know, we have a lot of political violence in this country. It comes from all -- you know, it's not so much from the right. It comes from everywhere and it just needs to stop. You had JFK, you had RFK, you've had Martin Luther King. Now, you're going to, you know, attempt the life of Reagan. And now, you have an attempted, you know, assassination of Trump. It's just ridiculous.
And it's just -- you know, I don't think it's a gun problem. I don't think it's a violence problem. I think there's a lot of angry people that just have too much interest in politics and it's a zero-sum game to them. You know, politics shouldn't be a zero-sum game where someone every -- someone wins everything and someone loses everything. And I think this is a result of that.
[01:30:00]
People that came today, you know, were very happy, they're here to support Trump. But you could -- you can -- when you talk to people in the crowd, there's a tenseness. They don't want to -- you know, they don't want to talk to family members about politics because it just gets too angry. So, I don't know what to tell you, but this needs to stop.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: A lot of politicians of both parties saying today this political violence must stop. Joining me now for a view of history, Tim Naftali, CNN's presidential historian, former director of the Nixon Presidential Library. Tim, it's a sad day. It's a sad day, in part because this kind of violence is so familiar in this country. I mean, going back to Lincoln, but more recently as well. And I don't have to tell you this because you've studied it for years.
You know, we often think of this moment in this country as unique, and the divisions are so vitriolic. But a lot of folks making references to the year 1968. I mean, the sad fact there is there is historical precedent for this in this country.
TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN, FORMER DIRECTOR, NIXON PRESIDENTIAL LIBRARY AND SENIOR RESEARCH SCHOLAR, COLUMBIA'S SIPA: Our politics have the potential of being violent. We have seen violence like this before in presidential elections. You mentioned RFK, 1968, Robert F. Kennedy, a leading candidate for the Democratic nomination was struck down. 1972, George Wallace, a leading candidate for the Democratic nomination, he wasn't killed, but he was paralyzed for life. 1912, the last time that a former president ran for office, Theodore Roosevelt was hit by a bullet. It did not penetrate his heart. It was actually stopped by his eyeglass case and his speech. And indeed, he continued his speech. He finished it. He said it takes more than that to kill a bull moose. That gave a name to his party, it became the Bull Moose Party.
Violence is not new to our politics. What we need -- and the gentleman that you just -- that was just interviewed mentioned it, we need to have this stop. We need, as Americans, to remember that in the end we are part of one country.
And when we create -- when we spread hatred, when we spread poison, when we demonize those who do not agree with us politically, we are laying the ground for the kind of violence that sadly reappears every so often in American politics. So, sadly, there's nothing new to this. But yet, again, we have a chance as Americans to prevent it from happening again.
SCIUTTO: You know, you cite those periods, of course, 1963, JFK killed, '68, RFK, and of course, Martin Luther King Jr., 1972, Wallace, I mean, those are just over nine years, right? And then, of course, what followed, you had political violence of other types. You had people were putting bombs under police cars, right? I mean, in the early '70s.
So, what got us out of those worst periods, right? I mean, it didn't go away entirely. I mean, it was only, you know, another decade. And then you have the assassination attempt of Ronald Reagan. But what got this country out of the worst cycles of political violence?
NAFTALI: We got ourselves out of this. When I say we, I mean, not just famous people who are our leaders, but local leaders, teachers, family leaders of all kinds. We came to the conclusion that enough was enough. And we had conversations about limiting violence. We talked about how to spread freedom. We actually engaged in gun control. We got out of war in Vietnam. Congress investigated abuses by governments. We pulled ourselves out of this.
We had a president who resigned when he realized that he was-- he had gotten caught and we had members of his own party say that it was time for him to resign. In other words, Americans chose a country over partisanship. We have done it before and we need to do it again.
[01:35:00]
SCIUTTO: Yes. I mean, think of -- talk about gun control, right? The Brady laws followed the Reagan assassination attempt, (INAUDIBLE). James Brady, he was also severely wounded in that, and that was a bipartisan effort, a waiting period for handguns. It's hard to imagine a similar reaction in this current environment.
NAFTALI: After RFK was killed, that's when the Saturday night special, a very small handgun, was outlawed. I'm not suggesting that that's a solution. What I'm suggesting is Americans said, hey, we just crossed a line. We need to do something. We have raised the temperature, the political temperature in this country, and it's dangerous. We have to step back from the brink.
I'm suggesting there are many ways to show that, one of them is by altering rhetoric. And I hope that in the weeks to come, we will see a ratcheting down of the rhetoric.
SCIUTTO: Yes. And a bipartisan one, right? Because it doesn't work if it comes from one side. And by the way, in the last several hours, I have seen Republicans and Democrats repeating that phrase that political violence has no place in our society, or some variation of that. But it has not been uniform, right? Because there are some, and sadly, it's just a fact of the current discourse who are already casting blame. And well, you might worry, right, laying the groundwork for feeding the flames of all this.
NAFTALI: We have a crisis of trust in our institutions. We're in an era that, because of social media, where people -- some people believe conspiracy theories. In this climate, this is the moment for those who have a sense of responsibility to enforce a moment of reflection before taking a hot take that would spread poison or conspiracy theories. We need that now. SCIUTTO: We do. We do. Well, there are going to be opportunities, right? We've seen one tonight with President Biden immediately going to the cameras. There's a Republican National Convention coming up in just a couple of days here with multiple opportunities to speak in those terms. We'll be watching and listening. Tim Naftali, thanks so much.
NAFTALI: Thank you, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, in a new memo, the Trump campaign says it is horrified over the attack on Former President Trump. Campaign managers Susie Wiles and Chris LaCivita told staffers they are "enhancing the armed security presence around the campaign with 24/7 officers, putting additional security measures in place."
This is the former president arriving in New Jersey a short time ago. They say the highest priority is keeping staff members safe. The campaign says the Republican Convention will go on as planned in Milwaukee next week where Republicans will nominate Donald Trump to be "the brave and fearless nominee of the party."
They also said "in moments of tragedy and horror, we must be resolute in our mission to re-elect President Trump. It is our fervent hope that this horrendous act will bring our team and indeed the nation together in unity, and we must renew our commitment to safety and peace for our country."
Recapping our breaking news coverage of the assassination attempt of the former president. Take a look at just the terrifying moments when those shots rang out at that Pennsylvania rally.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: Now, that's a little bit old, that chart. That chart's a couple of months old and if you want to really see something that's sad, take a look at what happened --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down, get down, get down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold, hold. When you're ready. On you. Move. Move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hawkeye's here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hawkeye's here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we ready? Are we good to move?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shooter down. Shooter down. Shooter's down.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooter's down. Are we good to move?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: At a news conference late in the night in Pennsylvania, officials confirmed the shooter is dead, as is a bystander. Two other men, bystanders, were critically injured. Trump rushed off stage, blood visible on his face. He did ask to stop for a moment there to get his shoes. You can hear an audio and then to take a moment to shake his fist.
[01:40:00]
Later on a social media platform, Trump said a bullet had pierced the upper part of his right ear. Eyewitnesses described the scene as bloody, pure insanity. This video shows a person believed to be the suspect lying motionless on the roof of a nearby building. The FBI says they are not ready to release the identity of the gunman. They're still efforting to confirm it. They have not yet determined a motive. They are appealing to the public for help in the investigation. So, many questions still swirling tonight.
CNN's John Miller explains why the FBI is now taking the lead on the investigation and the efforts to identify the shooter.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: I'm quoting now from the statement, the FBI has assumed the role of the lead federal law enforcement agency in the investigation of the incident involving Former President Donald Trump that occurred today in Butler, Pennsylvania. That means they are bringing a significant amount of resources into this tonight with that announcement. That's the critical incident response group will be driving up with their vehicles and equipment from Quantico.
The FBI's evidence response team will be doing a grid search over that entire area where the rally was and outside the rally. That means elements of the SERG Group, including BAU-1, the behavioral profilers, will be involved. Significant parts of the Counterterrorism Division and the Joint Terrorism Task Force will join the Criminal Division.
Why the FBI and not the Secret Service? Because that's actually normal. The Secret Service's job is to protect their protectee, in this case the former president, stop any assassination attempt, take out the potential assassin. But after that happens, they are part and parcel. But the FBI is going to be operating under the federal law that makes it a federal crime to attempt to assault or kill a federal officer or a former president of the United States or any official under the protection of the Secret Service. And that means figuring out who is he.
Right now, Anderson, and I've been talking to sources all over the government, we're not certain that they are certain that they have the identity of the gunman. I know they're trying to confirm that. Secondly, they're going to need to know, where is he from? Is he local, or did he travel far and wide to get here for this event? And then, they're going to want to know, is he a left-wing, violent extremist? Is he an accelerationist? Or is he, and this is not out of the question, one of these people who are just hearing his own voices in his head? At what point, we may learn the motive is something that just makes no sense to us. We've seen that before, but they are in the very early stages of trying to figure out do they know who this person is and how do they start down that road.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCIUTTO: This just in to CNN Breaking News, the FBI has now formally identified. The shooter as Thomas Matthew Crooks, 20 years old of Bethel Park, Pennsylvania. The FBI identifying Crooks as the subject involved in the assassination attempt of Former President Donald Trump. The statement goes on to say this remains an active and ongoing investigation and asks anyone with information that might assist with the investigation to submit photos or videos online to the FBI as they attempt to piece this together.
Reactions to the attempted assassination of the former president have been pouring in from across the political spectrum. Here is Republican Senator Ted Cruz as he posted on X, "This is horrific and wrong and evil. Thank God he appears not to be seriously injured." Meanwhile, Senator Marco Rubio, a top contender to be Trump's running mate, said "God protected President Trump."
Trump's political rivals are also condemning the attack and political violence. House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries says he is praying for the former president and that political violence is unacceptable. That's a sentiment echoed by the Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer. He says he is horrified but relieved that the former president is safe.
Joining me now is Ron Brownstein, CNN's senior political analyst and the senior editor for The Atlantic. He joins me now from Los Angeles. It's a big moment. It's a sad moment in this country. It's a precarious one. I want to ask you about the politics, if I can, for a moment. You have the Republican National Convention beginning on Monday. What message would you like to hear from the former president and his supporters, and what message do you expect to hear from them in reaction to this?
[01:45:00]
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST AND SENIOR EDITOR, THE ATLANTIC: Yes, I mean, you've got to start by taking one step back. I mean, this is another big scary step, maybe a leap down the road we have been on for a number of years now, you know, where we saw with the January 6th attack on the Capitol, the kidnapping and assassination attempt against Gretchen Whitmer, attack on Steve Scalise.
I remember I am just struck that immediately after January 6th, one of the Trump officials from Homeland Security said to me, are we moving into a period in the U.S. like the Troubles in Northern Ireland, where threats of violence and actual attempts at violence are becoming a backbeat for our politics, much more common than an earlier generation? You're talking to Tim about kind of, you know, the high point of the '60s chaos that we live through. And we are kind of drifting. I mean, think of all the threats against public health officials and even school board officials and election officials during COVID or during the 2020 election, the character of the country's politics is changing.
You know, I would like to think that at the convention we would hear a condemnation of that. But a lot of the reaction -- you know, the immediate reaction from President Trump's strongest supporters have been just to point fingers at one side without acknowledging that there is a lot of incitement out there that comes from, you know, from his camp as well.
SCIUTTO: It's a sad fact that that is too often the norm, right? That if it happens against your side, you decry it, if it happens against the other side, if not celebrate it, you might minimize it. I mean, we've seen that from Trump himself, for instance, following the attack on Paul Pelosi. That's a regular --
BROWNSTEIN: Making jokes.
SCIUTTO: -- laugh line, right, at his rallies. I want to ask --
BROWNSTEIN: And questioning whether the Whitmer attempt even happened at the time.
SCIUTTO: Yes, exactly.
BROWNSTEIN: In 2020.
SCIUTTO: Repeatedly. And that's something we need to acknowledge in this environment and look to see and certainly, give the former president an opportunity to behave differently in this case. We'll see going forward.
I want to ask what the effects are on President Biden's democracy message in this election, because central to Biden's re-election message is that Donald Trump is a threat to democracy. Certainly, January 6, his involvement in January 6 efforts to overturn the election, Trump, of course, will now say and can now say he's been the target of political violence. Does this take the air out of that balloon, as it were, for a central part of Joe Biden's re-election message?
BROWNSTEIN: You know, everything that was true about Donald Trump and his relationship to democracy yesterday is still true today. But I think how you express that is going to be something that the Biden campaign is going to think long and hard about. I mean, you know, in the same way that Donald Trump calling his political opponents vermin and fascists and communists and saying that they are trying to destroy America is -- you know, the tendency of some on the left to equate him to Hitler is -- I mean, like, we are in a spiral here. That is very difficult to pull out of, you know.
And I think that the questions about Trump's willingness to kind of abide by democratic norms, as I say, are the same today as they were yesterday. But I think the way in which that is expressed has to be calibrated in light of what we have seen, and you would hope that the reverse would be true as well. You know, when Trump is calling mainstream, you know, kind of center left Democrats communists and fascists and vermin this is just an incredibly dangerous moment.
And, you know, not only -- I think it's really important to kind of emphasize, not only for these big national figures like the former president, but what this has meant in kind of the fabric of the all over the country, for election officials, for the judges and prosecutors involved in his cases, for all of the local officials who received threats during COVID, all the way up to the Supreme Court justices who are being threatened, just the basic --
I don't think we have seen this level -- I mean, just -- you know, the '60s had those horrible big moments, but this kind of broad sense that violence is acceptable as kind of politics by other means, I need to go back to the 1850s to see anything like what we are drifting into. This is either going to be another step toward that or a moment where we kind of pull back from the brink.
[01:50:00]
SCIUTTO: Well, it's an opportunity too, right? We'll see if we take that opportunity. Let me ask you this because, of course, the focus prior to today was on the Democratic side of this election campaign and would Joe Biden remain in the race.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes.
SCIUTTO: This is unrelated to that question, but I wonder, in your view, could it have an effect on that question? It takes it, certainly, out of the headlines for some -- a period of time. That -- does Joe Biden -- and I think we might have lost Ron Brownstein there, if you're still there, Ron? Well, we lost Ron Brownstein.
BROWNSTEIN: No, no. I'm here.
SCIUTTO: Oh, he's there, he's there.
BROWNSTEIN: I'm here. Yes.
SCIUTTO: Does Joe Biden, perhaps say that's, we're not talking about that anymore. We're talking about a different test for this country. I'm still your man?
BROWNSTEIN: That seems entirely possible. I mean, you know, the ups and downs on whether Biden is in or out has seemed to be almost hourly mood swings in the Democratic Party. He had a very rough phone call today with front line Democrats who are in the more competitive districts, who tend to be the members of the party, you know, most concerned about his impact.
But I suspect that all -- you know, all of these political calculations will be secondary. First of all, the concern about the victims there and the former president and his family, but also about kind of what it says about where we're headed as a country. But if you're asking, I do think it provides another kind of barrier for those who want to -- for those Democrats who want to remove Biden from the ticket. I don't think he can recover from that debate. It kind of freezes things in place and, you know, the clock is ticking on any plausible plan to replace him.
SCIUTTO: Yes, I was told there were some testy exchanges in that call between the president and some of Democrats.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, absolutely.
SCIUTTO: Well, Ron Brownstein, let's hope that folks are listening to you and take this as an opportunity to calm the political rhetoric in this country. We appreciate having you on tonight.
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me.
SCIUTTO: Our Justice Correspondent Evan Perez joins me now on the phone. Evan, you've been covering the investigation closely here. The FBI now officially identifying the shooter this evening. Tell us what else you're hearing.
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR U.S. JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim. I mean, we know that they were working to verify the identity of the shooter. His name is Thomas Matthew Crooks. 20 years old, and he's from Bethel Park, Pennsylvania.
Now, that's the scene right now of a massive, massive police presence. Police on the scene there have cordoned off a very large area around the home where he believes -- he's believed to have spent been living recently. And so, that's where the focus of this investigation is now. But you know, it took a little while, as we reported earlier, Jim, and as the FBI said at the press conference a little while ago that, you know, he didn't have any identification him, on his person, when the Secret Service shot and killed him there on that rooftop.
And so, as a result, it took additional work. They had to do biometrics, they had to do DNA testing to be able to verify his identity. And so, this -- you know, the location of where he was living, or at least the last known where -- place where he was living and where the FBI is now, you know, trying to get evidence is in Bethel Park, which is outside of Pittsburgh.
The rally where this this incident occurred, where the attempted assassination of the former president occurred is in Butler, which is about an hour away on the other side of Pittsburgh. Again, all of this in Western Pennsylvania. And now, of course, the work begins to try to understand what the motivation was. How long has he been planning this? When did he get the gun? How long has he been working on this? And really, if there was anybody else at all who was connected -- this connected to this assassination attempt. And all of that, of course, is now where the FBI is focused on.
In addition to, obviously, some of the additional questions that we all have from watching that scene, you know, how was this gunman allowed to get to that location, that perch on that rooftop with a clear view of the former president and not be stopped before he got those shots off. Jim. SCIUTTO: Yes. And just -- you talk about the security cordon now around the house or where he was -- the shooter was believed to be staying, to your knowledge anyone else in that house at this point? I know that authorities said in that press conference they have no reason to believe that there is -- there are other existing threats.
[01:55:00]
PEREZ: Right. Yes, there's no beliefs that he had any accomplices certainly at the scene there from the -- at the shooting. But we don't know whether there's anybody else in that home. We believe that they're -- that he lived with other family members, Jim. We -- based on the information of the address and being there in the neighborhood that there are other family members there, but we don't know if they were present when the FBI got there tonight. And whether they're -- they remain there.
Obviously, that's -- any family members, anybody who has interacted with him, all of those people are now likely to be questioned by the FBI. The FBI, they're trying to get as much information out of them as much as possible to understand, again, how this event happened as the way it did.
SCIUTTO: Yes. Evan Perez, our senior U.S. justice correspondent, thanks so much for filling us in tonight.
PEREZ: Thanks.
SCIUTTO: Well, this assassination attempt is raising serious questions about security at this rally. For more, we're joined from Los Angeles by retired FBI Special Agent Bobby Chacon. Bobby, it's good to have you. I always begin these questions by saying the Secret Service has a tough job. We always -- we don't know about a lot of their successes. We will know about their failures or near failures here.
Tell us as you're looking at this, do you see obvious failures in terms of the security preparations around this site?
BOBBY CHACON, FBI SPECIAL AGENT (RET.): Sure, yes. And it's the one people have been mentioning all evening is, it's that rooftop. How is that rooftop not secured? When you look at the overhead diagram of that, where the stage is and where that roof is, it's probably the closest rooftop with a direct line of sight to the front or the side of the stage.
So, when you talk about high ground and a rooftop, that would have been one of the very first things that you should have secured. You put a local officer up there, you put them down at the bottom where the ladder is to go up to that roof. You have somebody that secures that rooftop. And I think that's going to be the main question going forward.
SCIUTTO: In terms of the immediate response in the aftermath, how quickly those Secret Service agents got up there, surrounded the president. You saw a very quick reaction. You saw clear communication with the advantage of being able to hear it as they were speaking and running through their checklist as it were to make sure that the shooter was taken down. Did that portion of the response fit with protocol as far as you know it?
CHACON: Yes, I think it was textbook. I think the counter sniper -- you got to remember these -- there are different teams of Secret Service people, you know, layered into this thing. So, the immediate circle around Trump, they're with him all the time. They're with him at home. They were with him in the court in New York when you had that one guy, I recognized from the trial in New York, sitting right behind him all the time.
So, that's his close in personal team. They're on a personal basis. They know each other. He loves them. They love him. So, that's the team that you saw tackle him on stage. They did a textbook. They got him out of there as quickly as they could. The counter sniper, he's a different part of the team. He's not always with that team. He took immediate action and took out the assassin as soon as he kind of could.
I think -- I don't think he had a sight of him until he popped up and actually started shooting. That's a pitched roof. And I think as he was climbing up that pitch, the sniper was looking over there but didn't see him. It was probably somebody who's in his ear saying there's a guy in that room, and he's looking and he can't see the guy until the guy just pops up. He takes a few shots and then he neutralizes him. So, I think that's what happened there.
So, I think those two aspects were done textbook. I mean, you know, Trump wanted to wave. It took him, you know, a second or two, not really significant, but they got him out of there. But that was his personal team. The counter sniper, I think, did a great job. I think the real question is in the planning of this, why that rooftop wasn't planned on being secured?
SCIUTTO: We often talk of lone wolves, whether it be in terrorism, terror events, or an event like this one. But oftentimes you find the lone wolves aren't necessarily lone, right, and that they could be radicalized, not in person, but on the web. I imagine these are questions, if you could answer quickly, we don't have much time, that the FBI is looking at very closely right now.
CHACON: Absolutely. Our 20-year-old is probably just that. I think you're right. I think he's probably radicalized online. That he probably sees his computers, any other documents, any other literature he might have around his house, any other journals, and that -- they're doing a deep dive into all of that. And how does a 20-year-old want to become a martyr? Basically, he went there knowing he wasn't going to survive.
And so, how does he become so emboldened and so ratcheted up that he wants to be a martyr by killing Donald Trump? That's going to be a good question.
SCIUTTO: Yes, and they'll be going through his devices, his computers, his social media history, et cetera. Bobby, good to have you on tonight. Thanks so much for sharing your background and your expertise.
CHACON: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: And thanks so much to all of you for watching. It's been a difficult in America. We'll continue to follow all the developments as it relates to the attempted assassination of Former President Donald Trump.
I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. Our breaking news coverage continues with Michael Holmes.
[02:00:00]
