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Donald Trump Injured In Assassination Attempt At Rally; FBI Identifies Shooter As Thomas Matthew Crooks; One Donald Trump Rally Attendee Dead And Two Others In Critical Condition; U.S. Political Figures React To Donald Trump Assassination Attempt; Donald Trump Rushed Away With Blood On Face And Ear; Donald Trump Pledges To Continue With Scheduled Republican Convention; FBI Identifies Shooter As Thomas Matthew Crooks. Aired 2-3a ET

Aired July 14, 2024 - 02:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[02:00:02]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Bobby, good to have you on tonight. Thanks so much for sharing your background and your expertise.

BOBBY CHACON, FBI SPECIAL AGENT (RET.): Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Thanks so much to all of you for watching. It's been a difficult day in America. We'll continue to follow all the developments as it relate to the attempted assassination of former President Donald Trump.

I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. Our breaking news coverage continues with Michael Holmes.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, and welcome, everyone. Our thanks to Jim Sciutto. I am Michael Holmes.

The FBI has now identified the man suspected of trying to assassinate former President Donald Trump, they say his name is Thomas Matthew Crooks 20 years old from Bethel Park in Pennsylvania.

All right now more on what happened in Pennsylvania in a moment but first, video of Donald Trump exiting his plane unassisted. You see him there walking down the stairs. This is in New Jersey. This video posted to social media by his campaign a short time ago.

All right, now, a look at the shooting on Saturday as the cameras rolled, let's have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Take a look at what happened --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down, get down, get down, get down. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are we doing? What are we doing? (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're about to despair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold. Hold. When you're ready, on you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go. Go. Up. Guys here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All guys here, moving through the floor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get ready. Get ready.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we ready?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooter's down. Shooter's down.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're moving out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very good.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shooter's down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooter's down. Are we good to move?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shooter's down. We're good to move.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are we clear?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're clear. We're clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's move. Let's move.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're clear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, we're good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, come on. We're moving, we're moving.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me get my shoes, let me get my shoes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got you sir. I've got you sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let me get my shoes, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold that in your head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, we're going to move you to the bus. We're going to move to the bus. Let me get my shoes. (INAUDIBLE) TRUMP: Wait. Wait. Wait.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We love you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, we got to go. We got to move. We got to move.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, as you saw and heard, there was a series of pops, the former president raised his hand to the side of his head, the Secret Service rushing onto the stage eventually, as you see there, moving Trump from the stage to the armored limousine, which is just off to the right now.

Now, as he was being taken from the stage, you could see the blood on the side of his face and his ear, the top of his ear, the Secret Service said the suspect shooter -- suspected shooter is dead. In fact, you see there an image of him down after he was shot on a roof.

Now, we'll show you a map where the shooter was, he was a top of that building you see top right hand portion of your screen there. Trump on stage as marked on the map there around the center of your screen.

Officials say one rally attendee was killed, two others critically injured. Now, here's part of the statement Trump posted on social media, "I was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear, I knew immediately that something was wrong, in that I heard a whizzing sound shots and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin."

Now we do have extensive coverage for you from the scene of the rally to reaction from Washington and beyond.

Let's start by bringing in retired FBI Supervisory Special Agent and CNN law enforcement contributor Steve Moore.

Good to see you, Steve, let's start with the naming of the suspect because that's only happened in the last few minutes. Now, investigators know who it is. What are they going to be doing in terms of investigating him?

STEVE MOORE, CNN ALWAYS ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, they're going to -- they're going to essentially write his biography. They're going to find out how he has been healthy wise, mental health wise, for the last five to 10 years, what he's doing, what he's going -- whether he's going to school, they're going to find out his belief system. They're going to look deeply into his online presence, what he's been looking at, what he's been reading, and who he's been communicating with.

And they're going to look at all of his financial transactions for several years back, they're essentially going to have a book on him that his parents couldn't write.

And at the end of this, they'll be able hopefully to find out whether number one, anybody assisted him. Number two, what the motive was, and use this as a -- as a way to understand better the threat to presidents, the threat to candidates.

[02:05:17]

HOLMES: Right. Now, you were and this is important, you were an FBI counter sniper for two years, there is video of the counter sniper team. And we'll roll that as you speak to this. They're seemingly reacting to the initial shots. I'm interested in what you saw and took for that, from that as somebody who did the job.

MOORE: Well, what I'm seeing is that they appear to be looking right in the direction of the shooter. I think that they had been alerted to the shooter, whether by -- whether by radio, or by hearing people screaming, they had been alerted to the location of the shooter immediately before they took their shots. They can't just say, oh, there's somebody over there on a roof and shoot them.

So, what they're going to be doing is looking, waiting until they see a weapon. The problem is, is that in that -- in that area on the roof, there could have been a slight wall covering him, hiding him.

And sometimes, I mean, we are taught as snipers to find rain gutters that go out of those little walls, and shoot through those so that nobody can see you on the other side.

So, they may have had a very obstructed view. But once they decided to take the suspect out, it was immediate. It was quick. It was accurate. It was textbook.

HOLMES: But I'm curious, your thoughts on where -- and we can maybe put up the map again. I mean, should that roof top that he was on, not have been cleared or better monitored? Should that shooter have been able to get up there and in position with line of sight in the first place?

MOORE: Clearly not, no, you're absolutely right.

A sniper will tell you that a shot -- if you take a shot 100 to 150 yards. It's not quite a gimme, but it is just about it is -- it is the shot that you are expected to make flawlessly.

And so, the fact that they allowed that somebody allowed that roof to be unmonitored, unguarded, that's going to be -- you know, that's not on the -- on the counter snipers. It is on the planning or the execution.

We don't -- they could have planned for that roof. And maybe something happened in the planning or in the execution of the plan where it was left unguarded.

But what I'm thinking, though, is that how did -- how did this guy get so lucky that he had decided to take the one place that was accidentally unguarded? That's just going to be something that we're going to have to really look deeply into.

HOLMES: What did you make, and we're watching video now of Donald Trump being taken off the stage. What did you make of the reaction of the Secret Service agents, they're obviously trained for this? Was that pretty textbook?

I mean, Trump paused as they were trying to get him off the stage, which probably isn't textbook and what did you make of how that all went down?

MOORE: Well, you're absolutely right about that second part. But first of all, I want to point out when you're looking at this, what you're looking at is a wall of bodies around Trump. They are -- they are bullet traps, they are using their own bodies as bullet traps to protect their protectee. That's the highest -- the highest level of devotion, I think, of duty.

And I think that if you listen carefully, you can hear them going through well practiced drills. And, you know, it's gratifying for me who's been part of special teams to see somebody who has trained for an emergency, in the worst case scenario, not very from the training that they've had, not changing anything and not letting the situation overwhelm them. And certainly, it was impressive to me.

As far as the president standing up and essentially revealing himself as a target again, they certainly didn't want that. I'm sure they didn't expect that. And I'm sure that's going to be part of training for both the Secret Service and the protectees in the future.

HOLMES: Yes. Now, what does all of this tell you about how difficult it is to protect someone like the former president, in that particular environment, open air, surrounding buildings, and so on and on? And do you expect changes?

[02:10:13]

MOORE: I expect drastic changes on this, there are just too many ways that you can improve that situation. That said, the Secret Service has to be right every single time, every single rally of every single candidate of every single month of every single year, they've got to be perfect. The bad guys only have to be lucky or right one time.

So, it's going to happen that you just want to eliminate as many means that it could happen as possible.

So yes, things are going to change because of this. And I think they're going to have to extend perimeters. And they're going to have to look more carefully.

The problem is, if you hold a -- if you hold any kind of rally in New York City, you can't control any high ground.

So, it's a problem that has no complete solution. But they need to get just a little bit better than they are now.

HOLMES: Yes. Terrific analysis. Steve Moore, glad to have your expertise on this. Appreciate you making the time.

MOORE: Thank you.

HOLMES: Now, the White House says U.S. President Joe Biden spoke with his political rival earlier on Saturday following the shooting and has since returned to the White House from Delaware. He did that earlier than planned.

Mr. Biden has been calling for unity in the shooting's aftermath. He says he's grateful to hear Trump is safe and well, here is the president earlier condemning political violence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's no place in America for this kind of violence. It's sick. It's sick. It's one of the reasons why we have to unite this country. We cannot allow for this to be happening. We cannot be like this. We cannot condone this.

The Trump rally was a rally that he should have been able to conduct peacefully without any problem. But the idea -- the idea that there's political violence or violence in America like this is just unheard of. It's just not appropriate. I mean, everybody, everybody must condemn it, everybody.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, several attendees of the rally witnessed what happened up close in the aftermath of the shooting. They spoke about what was obviously a traumatic incident. Here's what they saw and how they reacted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICO ELMORE, RALLY ATTENDEE: All we know was a shot was fired, and then I jump over the barrier. And put my hand on the guys, that was profusely bleeding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who was it? Do you know?

ELMORE: I don't know, it was a stranger.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not Trump, though? This is another person?

ELMORE: Yes. (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it was you said he got hit on his head?

ELMORE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you see it? Did you -- were you in the vicinity of where Trump was?

ELMORE: I was on -- I was on the side of the special guest.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you okay?

ELMORE: I'm Rico Elmore but I just -- military reaction.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. JOSEPH MEYN, RALLY ATTENDEE: Very shocking. It's just -- I think a lot

of people in the crowd just thought it was fireworks going off. I knew immediately it was gunshots.

DENISE KLAIBR, RALLY ATTENDEE: I thought it was fireworks. And then, my husband said he saw shots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Irina Bucur is a reporter with the Butler Eagle. She was in the crowd during the rally, joins me now from Butler in Pennsylvania.

Thanks so much. First of all, what did you see in here when this started?

IRINA BUCUR, REPORTER, BUTLER EAGLE: Sure. So, I was in the crowd. We had a reporter actually in the enclosed media area, but I was with the other visitors and I just heard several gunshots and everyone around me, including myself, we all ducked down.

The woman behind me was praying. There was a mother in front of me who is telling her children to crouch down. And you soon after that, people started standing up and started being evacuated by Secret Service.

HOLMES: Were you -- you know, you went there to cover a rally? I mean, were you in disbelief initially, what went through your mind?

BUCUR: I think I was in shock for the first few moments. Because I wasn't -- I wasn't close to the bleachers, or where former President Trump was standing. So, I didn't see what was happening until I got the information in bits and pieces.

I was definitely in disbelief. And I think everyone around me was as well.

[02:15:02]

HOLMES: Yes. Tell me more about the crowd. You mentioned those immediately around you. But what happened after the former president was taken away, did -- was there any sense of panic or concern or I guess bewilderment? But then, what did people do?

BUCUR: So, a number of people started evacuating before calls for evacuation took place. Other people just started filming on their phones. And as I was talking to some folks, it just seemed like everybody was in a daze.

People were telling me that they saw a shooter on the roof, other people were saying other things and so there seem to be a lot of confusion.

I spoke with a man who performed CPR on the fatally wounded victim. And again, just a sense of, yes, bewildering (ph) like you said, everybody is still reeling from this.

HOLMES: Tell us more about the place. I mean, you cover the area, what's it like? What kind of place is it? Who lives there?

BUCUR: Sure. So, it's the Butler Farm Show grounds. It's a -- I would say a fairly open large area where different local events are held. The rally was held outdoors, entirely outdoors and the neighborhood in which the rally took place. I would call it a fairly quiet neighborhood leading up to the rally. You know, driving into the parking lot. You could see neighbors holding lemonade stands. It is a really a fairly quiet neighborhood. That's how I would describe it.

HOLMES: Yes, I mean, I'm sure they didn't expect in their wildest dreams anything like this to happen.

Did you ever think you'd be in this sort of situation as a -- as a local reporter? How are you processing it?

BUCUR: I don't think that I ever expected to be in the situation. As soon as I heard the gunshots, like I said, I ducked for cover. And you know, as the shock set in, I texted my editor, immediately told him what was going on. And I guess I'm processing it, just like everybody else. And just speaking with folks has helped me be a little bit more grounded.

HOLMES: Yes, that's a good thing to do. Keep talking to people about it, their shared experience.

Irina Bucur in Butler, Pennsylvania. Thanks so much. Really appreciate you.

BUCUR: Thank you.

HOLMES: Well, reaction meanwhile, coming in from across the political spectrum.

In a statement, former President Barack Obama condemning the shooting, saying, "There is absolutely no place in our -- for political violence in our democracy. Michelle and I are wishing him a quick recovery."

New York Mayor Eric Adams calling the shooting horrific and saying no matter our disagreements, we must all agree that violence of any kind is unacceptable.

Talking to ex-Wisconsin's governor offered his thoughts to the president and the attendees at the rally and his gratitude to the first responders.

In a second post, he assured people coming to Milwaukee for this week's Republican National Convention that there is ongoing communication as he put it with security officials.

Independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. recalled the assassinations of his father and uncle. Have a listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR. (I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've been through this before with my own family. I was with my dad and he died in Los Angeles. I understand the implications that this has for our country and probably as well as anybody does.

And you know, I think my -- you know, my message to people is, we need to renounce violence, we need to renounce not just violence but the hatred and vitriol.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Reactions from world leaders have been pouring in as well. The Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi saying he's deeply concerned by the attack on Trump, who he called a friend. Mr. Modi adding that violence has no place in politics and democracies.

In Japan, Prime Minister Fumio Kishida called for standing firm against any violence that challenges democracy. And the top E.U. diplomat Josep Borrell calling the shooting an unacceptable act of violence against political representatives, which he said we're seeing again, while Mexican president Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador condemned the attack, adding that violence is irrational and inhumane.

[02:20:23]

All right, for more, let's head over to London, where our Nic Robertson is standing by and tell us more about those international reactions which started very soon after the attack.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, they did and a lot of them focus on that issue of condemning the violence but the first one actually came from one of President Trump's closest European allies. Viktor Orban, the Hungarian Prime Minister and maybe no surprise there, Viktor Orban was meeting -- met with Donald Trump Just last week, they have a very close affinity, they politically think the same, they sort of use the same type of political language for a -- can be quite emotional, can be -- can be really sort of rallying for their supporters.

He offered his thoughts and prayers very, very quickly. And another one that were actually -- was also very quick Kier Starmer, the British new British prime minister who was in Washington just last week.

Of course, he didn't meet Donald Trump during that trip, but he said -- his official statement said that he was shocked, that he condemned the violence.

Anthony Albanese, the prime minister of Australia has been very quick with his condemnation too, calling it inexcusable.

You've listed a number of leaders who've spoken there. But we've also heard from the Japanese, from the Taiwanese, from the -- from the in -- the Indian Prime Minister, you mentioned Pakistan's Prime Minister has also condemned the violence.

Interestingly, President Zelenskyy from Ukraine was sort of -- went into even sort of greater depth on his criticism of this attack, saying there's absolutely no place for violence like this. Again, that central theme from other leaders that we've heard from. But Zelenskyy makes this clear point. And it clearly is a reference

about Ukraine as well, that violence, political violence, any violence should not prevail.

But there is absolute shock. And I think you get a sense of that from the speed of these comments that are coming forward now, Michael.

HOLMES: Yes, and you know, of course, violence like this, political violence, is foreign to most nations. I mean, does it perhaps amplify existing international concerns about the U.S. election, not that Europe is a complete stranger to political violence?

ROBERTSON: No, it isn't. In Europe, it doesn't seem to happen so often, you have to go back really to the early noughties to find a particular spate of assassinations and assassination attempts on European political figures.

And oftentimes, it happens because their security is quite low, which is what happened actually just in the middle of May this year to Robert Fico, the Slovak Prime Minister who again is a populist figure, pro-Russian.

So, this is -- he is a political figure, who is relatively divisive in his own country and their laps lack -- laps lack of security allowed the shooter who was a 71-year-old man to get really, really close, and shoots the prime minister at close range. And he was, as I say, shot in middle of May and is only returned to the political fray in the past week or so.

This shooting will amplify, as you say, those concerns already existing in Europe that the rhetoric, the divisive nature of the U.S. political debate that's going on right now in the run up to the elections is something that could turn nasty, and that would be a real concern -- that would be a real concern, because you know, the shockwaves ripple out from there, the political implications ripple out.

So, this is something of course, that every all these leaders who were speaking about, there's no place for violence will hope that that's the dominant message that comes forward during this presidential election campaign, utterly shocking, worrisome, amplifying those fears and perhaps for some, not surprising because of the heated heated nature of the political debate in the United States.

HOLMES: Yes, indeed. And perhaps about to become more heated. Nic Robertson in London. Appreciate it. Good to see you, Nic.

All right, recapping what we know, former President Donald Trump's advisors say he's doing fine after being injured in that attempted assassination on Saturday at a campaign rally in Pennsylvania. A campaign aide posting this video to X of the former president deplaning in Newark, New Jersey several hours after the shooting. As you see, they're coming down the stairs unassisted.

[02:25:08] The gunshots rang out shortly after Mr. Trump began speaking to a crowd of supporters. The Secret Service says the gunman now identified by the FBI as 20-year-old Thomas Matthew Crooks fired multiple shots from an elevated position outside the rally.

He was a registered Republican who had by the way previously made a small contribution to a democratic aligned group, that's according to public records.

One audience member at the rally was killed, Mr. Trump grazed in the right ear. This video offering a unique perspective of what transpired.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's got a gun.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's on top of the roof so go over there. He's on the roof, buddy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's dead. They blew his head off.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's dead. I just seen his hair, they shot him in the head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Holy (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(INAUDIBLE) anybody over there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did he blew up a shot?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He -- number of shots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought that was us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, that was him, the first two shots were him. (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Donald Trump appeared to have been shot in the upper part of his right ear during that rally, the shot that came extraordinarily close to causing much more damage, and of course, possibly being fatal.

CNN's Anderson Cooper spoke to Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, about the severity of the former president's injuries.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Even though it appears that it was mostly the ear and the soft tissue around the ear, you know, when you're in the hospital after something like this, you have to sort of evaluate the possibility that they may have still caused a skull fracture or something else, you know, in a significant blow to that part of the head. When you watch that, Anderson, a couple things. First of all, after

you hear the bangs, and the president ray -- the former president raises his hand to his ear, he then seems to go down on his own. That was one important thing.

He's covered up by the agents there who are protecting him, but also probably doing a little bit of what is called a secondary evaluation, making sure or trying to determine at least at that point, if there are any other injuries, we see what we see. But it doesn't mean that something else couldn't have happened as well, in a situation like that.

President stands up, he's raising his right hand. He seems to be walking on his own, you know, again, surrounded by the Secret Service agents, but walking on his own. Those are all very important signs.

But from a medical standpoint, from a trauma standpoint, getting a full evaluation, still, you don't know what you don't know, in these situations. Sometimes people can have injuries that are unrecognized at that point.

And by the way, besides the former president, people at the rally as well, you can have people who are walking wounded may not actually fully recognize that they have been injured. If there had been any other secondary injuries or unrecognized injuries from the scene. They should have -- they would have likely found those by now.

X-rays, perhaps a CT scan, really examining the president all over to make sure again, there wasn't another injury from you know, whether it was bullet or secondary projectiles, whatever it may have been, that probably would have all happened by now. Anderson.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If -- again, we don't know the extent of how much you know, where in the ear, things like that. Is it possible that would require -- would that just heal on its own? Would it require some sort of follow up, you know, cosmetic surgery?

GUPTA: It may, you know, I was looking at some of those images and they're kind of -- I mean, they're disturbing to look at those close up images, you can get a sense of the trajectory of the projectile stitches that would be necessary. What did it do to his inner ear, would it cause problems, you know, longer term with hearing, things like that, balance difficulties. We don't know.

I think that the biggest thing at this point is trying to figure out was there any other secondary more dramatic or significant injury, hopefully not. But that's I think the main thing.

[02:30:09]

But my guess is there might be a follow up if necessary, if for nothing else, just for the cosmetic injury to the ear, but again, this can be very serious.

I mean, there could be a skull fracture underneath that injury, there could be damage to the ear itself, the inner ear. So, they may have evaluated a lot of that already, you can do those

sorts of evaluations pretty quickly. But it's got to be complete. You can't just go based on what you see here. You have to sort of, you know, do a full evaluation to make sure you're not missing something here.

That's something that patient, in this case, the former president, may not even recognize themselves in the -- in the sort of -- with all the sort of all that's happening in that moment. There's things that can be missed. And that's why the medical team has to be so thorough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: Republican Senate candidate Dave McCormick was in the front row of the rally, he was set to speak actually, moments before the shots were fired, President Trump had invited him to the stage, he spoke earlier to CNN's Wolf Blitzer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVE MCCORMICK (R), SENATORIAL CANDIDATE OF PENNSYLVANIA: I was in the front row. So, the president was speaking out to the -- to the crowd. Looking at big crowd, I think I was told 15,000 or so.

And I was seated to his right in the front row. And he had actually just announced me and invited me up to the stage and then said, no, I'll have you come up in a few minutes.

And about a minute or so, after that, we heard a series of shots, I think seven or eight shots just pop, pop, pop. They -- you know, I was a former Army guy, they sounded like a small caliber weapon, but obviously, I'm not sure about that.

And, you know, it's like, all of a sudden, just chaos, the Secret Service immediately covered the president, jumped on top of him. And the -- and the crowd obviously, all went immediately to its -- to the ground to -- people on their knees are laying down on the ground.

And then, the -- then the president got up and sort of was surrounded by the Secret Service, you see this -- you could see him just with a little bit of blood on him. And as you know, sort of fist came out and defiance.

And then -- and then, over my shoulder behind me. It was clear that somebody had been hit. And so, people around this gentleman were trying to administer first aid. And he was clearly -- this person was clearly injured, seems to be really there was a lot of blood.

And eventually, some police officers came up and carried him to where I hope he got the urgent care and obviously praying for him now. So, that was what I saw. I saw the immediate attack on the president and I saw the fact that this person behind me was injured.

But you can imagine what that kind of incident happening. Very hard to know what's coming. In fact, I'm not sure whether it was one shooter or two shooters, I couldn't really tell. It seemed like the shots were coming from my front.

So, to the pres -- from the president's left, but which would have made sense why the person behind me was hit. But I'm not sure if there was also shots coming from other directions.

So, it was -- as you might imagine, it was chaotic and confusing in the moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Ron Brownstein is CNN senior political analyst and senior editor for The Atlantic. He joins me now from Los Angeles.

Ron, there's been an increased threat environment for a while, hasn't there? The threat of political violence, the vitriol and the anger. In some ways, did you see something like this coming? Not necessarily specifically aimed at Trump, but something like this?

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, I mean, there's -- Michael, there's no question that we are living in a different era in American politics in which threats of violence and actual attempts at violence have become kind of a backbeat to our political life.

I remember immediately after January 6th, talking to someone who worked on domestic terrorism in the Trump Administration Department of Homeland Security, who said to me that we seemed in the U.S. to be heading into an era like Northern Ireland during the Troubles in which there was kind of a consistent low level of threat and attempted violence.

And we have seen, you know, it go from the very local governments of public health officials during COVID and election officials during 2020. To statewide officials like the attempt to kidnap and kill Gretchen Whitmer, the governor of Michigan, the attacks on members of Congress, like Steve Scalise, or the husband of Nancy Pelosi, to the insurrection itself on January 6th, and now, this attempt on the life of a former president.

There's no question the direction we are headed as a society. And the question of whether this is a moment of just kind of another step on a downward spiral or a moment in which both parties and a broad range of Americans is trying to pull back from the brink?

[02:35:10]

HOLMES: Yes, we don't -- we don't know the specific motivation of the shooter yet. But regardless, the temperature as you've been saying, it's higher now.

I mean, how precarious is the timeframe between now and the November election do you think?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I mean, first of all, I mean, it's entirely possible that there will be no coherent motive, you know, that -- you know, that often the case, especially when you're dealing with someone this young, you know, it's possible that this will -- this will not make any sense to anyone outside of the -- you know, outside of the individual himself.

Look, it's a dangerous period between now and the election. It's a dangerous period between the election and the inauguration.

I mean, you've had Trump allies preemptively saying that, you know, at the Heritage Foundation that the election will be stolen. You know, we've had extraordinary rhetoric. You know, I have seen a number of Trump allies, and defenders today basically say, well, what did you expect, given what Democrats are saying about Trump.

Donald Trump calls Democrats, communists and fascists and vermin, you know, and says that they are trying to destroy the country.

So, we've got -- you know, we have a pattern now, in which millions and millions of Americans view each of these elections in apocalyptic terms, and believe that victory by the other side will destroy the America they know, and believe it.

And look, we are deeply polarized, and there are reasons for people to feel that, you know, a victory by the other side will, in fact, you know, threatened policy preferences or other values that they hold, but that has to be fought out at the ballot box.

And, you know, like I said, there's no question the trajectory we're on, you know, it didn't have to be this, it could have been an attempted one of the judges in the Trump case -- Trump cases.

We are going to see more of this unless there is a collective effort to see less of it.

HOLMES: They've got the Republican convention next week. One imagines that Donald Trump will, yes, probably take advantage of this in some way.

I mean, how do you think the Trump campaign will manage what's happened both in terms of messaging, messaging of the convention? And in terms of practical things, like does he do these rallies anymore?

BROWNSTEIN: Well, I think they have a big choice at the convention, you know, his core message over the -- really throughout his career, but certainly, since his indictments has been that they, you know, broadly defined, liberals, the left, the deep state are going after me, because I am standing up for you. There are people that are Republicans and conservatives on Twitter who are already making that case.

And, you know, it would not be shocking if that was the message that he emphasized. There's also the opportunity to go in a different direction here and to basically say, that this ought to be a wakeup call for all of us, and we ought to pull back from the brink of this, you know, hyper hyper polarized rhetoric.

Again, you know, calling his opponents fascists and communists at the same time that some refer to him as another Hitler.

So, he has a big choice in how he responds to this. I mean, his instinctive reaction, you know, was, you know, remarkable in some ways, but also was like, fight, fight, fight.

I mean, that was -- you know, that was what -- that was what he said, even as he showed great personal courage, in kind of any sense for the dramatic in the moment in standing up.

So, I think he has a real choice to make in the days ahead about the message he sends to his followers, because there are certainly many people in his orbit people who are supporting him who are essentially using or kind of weaponizing this immediately to kind of underscore the case that Democrats are somehow un-American, when in fact, what we are dealing with is a -- is a deeply -- is a problem that's that extends across the political spectrum, and is taking us all to a place that I don't think most Americans want to live.

HOLMES: Yes, there's already been a number of Republican members of Congress, and one vice presidential potential candidate blaming Democrats essentially for what's happening, which probably isn't going to lower the temperature.

Ron, I'm going to speak to you next hour, so I look forward to chatting then. Cheers.

BROWNSTEIN: Thank you. Thanks, Michael.

HOLMES: Ron Brownstein there.

CNN's Alayna Treene spoke to a doctor who was sitting behind doctor -- Donald Trump in the bleachers when the shots were fired. He said he helped carry the body of another rally attendee who was killed describing the moments after the shooting is complete pandemonium.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. JOSEPH MEYN, EYEWITNESS OF THE SHOOTING: I was attending the rally. It seemed initially like firecrackers went off. It was a little bit very confusing initially because you know, I knew it was gunfire but that couldn't quite tell where it was coming from, it sounds like it was coming from behind the bleachers.

[02:40:13]

And the man in the bleachers kind of to the right of me in the bleachers took a gunshot wound to the head was killed and another woman, I don't know exactly where she was, I'm pretty sure I think she's either behind me or to the right of me. And she got around in the -- she got hit in the forearm in hand, it looked like. But it just -- (INAUDIBLE) she wasn't killed.

TREENE: Can I ask you how you're feeling? Obviously you just witnessed something terrible happen. A lot of chaos was in the room. How exactly are you feeling right now, Joseph?

MEYN: You know, it's something you don't expect. You know, it's a bolt out of the blue. So, it's very shocking. It's just I think a lot of people in the crowd just thought it was fireworks going off. I knew immediately it was gunshots. I do. You know, I knew they were close. And then when I saw someone get hit

and go down. That's when it was probably serious.

You know, it's like confusion. It's just massive confusion, you know, throughout the event. I saw Donald Trump get hit. It looked like he had -- you know, he was either -- I had -- I was running like camera at the time, but it looked like he was just turning to the -- he was turning his head to the side and looked like he got grazed in the -- in the right ear with a bullet. I kind of saw that go on. And I looked down I saw that the man, you know, died in the bleachers.

There's just complete pandemonium, like every -- you know, there was a bit of a delay, like there was a lot of confusion. But immediately, you know, it seemed like more gunfire erupted. I couldn't figure out where that was coming from.

And then, you know, there's a policeman there. A, I believe a SWAT team showed up relatively quickly, they jumped this side. There's a fence skills next to the bleachers, they jumped the bleachers and started clearing the bleachers. And then I helped carry the body of the man down all the bleachers and I took them to a tent behind the bleachers. We put a towel over his head, but he gets deceased.

TREENE: You were telling me before when we were chatting briefly that you never had a chance to make it to a Trump rally that this was your first time.

MEYN: Yes.

TREENE: Do you -- would you feel safe coming back to another Trump rally?

MEYN: Yes, you know, it's a very random event that happens. So, you know, I feel safe, generally, where I go in the country, you know?

I think the problem is we have a very -- everyone seems very angry. And you know, it makes you kind of -- you know, I'll go to a Trump rally again, but I'll think twice.

You know, you definitely want to have your head on the swivel. It just seems like there's a lot of angry people out there. And I'm not shocked that this happened. I'm shocked that I was sitting there when it happened next to me, obviously, you don't -- you never anticipate that to happen.

But yes, it's just horrible. You know, we shouldn't be at a level of public political discourse in this country where this is going on. It feels like it's 1960 again. You know, it's just -- it's horrible.

TREENE: Can you describe for me, Joseph, what happened after you saw the shots? And remind me and I was there as well. Secret Service was screaming for everyone to get down. They quickly tried to clear the area.

I'm just curious what that process was like for you in the -- in the aftermath? MEYN: Very confusing. Like I said, I think everyone was in the

bleachers knew -- it was initially confusing when the gunshots erupted. Half I think the crowd thought it was fireworks, I think someone out there were playing a joke.

And, you know, for the people who are close to the people that got injured and killed, you obviously know, it wasn't a joke. And it was -- it seemed like there was a push pull on the crowd. And that is one half of the crowd on the far end of the rally thought it was some type of weird joke. The other half of the crowd knew it wasn't, was trying to push or impress upon the rest of the crowd that this is serious.

And I think everyone got the idea very quickly that it was a dangerous situation. And everyone just started hitting the deck and, you know, kudos to the Secret Service, you know, again, you know, when you're in these situations, a second feels like it's an hour, but it seemed like the authorities were there very quickly. It just seemed to me like said I was sitting there, it seemed like the rounds came from behind. And they got this -- they hit the gentleman in the head.

You know, he got a gunshot wound to the head and he I believe was injured and then I saw Trump -- President Trump, you know, get hit and it looked like it was right here. But it seemed initially everyone was like half the -- the crowd was in shock. And the other half thought it was some type of weird joke.

And it just -- it took -- it took a bit for everyone to get a good understanding what was going on.

TREENE: You mentioned that you had spoken with the person who ended up falling, I believe you said or he's with his whole family?

MEYN: No, his family watched it happen. So, they were in the bleachers when he got hit and he went down. I think they were trying to figure out what was going on. They were screaming for help.

The body was -- they put a towel over the man's head, the body was removed from the bleachers. Then the police came back brief, you know, right after tried to move the family, but they were all in shock. They didn't quite -- they weren't processing what was going on.

The man was definitely -- he was dead the minute he was hit. I mean, it was something that reminded me of "The Zapruder" film from Kennedy.

[02:45:06]

I mean, it was -- it was -- his head snapped, and that was it. And I caught it on the corner of my eye and you know, and then there was just pandemonium.

You know, it's Pennsylvania, you know -- you know, you're out in the rural Pennsylvania, you don't really anticipate this is going to happen, but it happened.

TREENE: You mentioned and I'm sorry, I know this is very emotional for you as well. And you mentioned that, you know, this was your first Trump rally. How are you feeling about the election now? What are you hoping to see moving forward? We've already seen a lot of statements of support from across the aisle come in for the former president. I can tell you to from our sources that they say that Donald Trump is OK. That he is at a local facility being treated.

But I would love just your view on I know, you came here today to support the man that you know, the former president, I'm curious how you think about this now? I know it's a hard question, given the chaos that we're currently in, and the adrenaline that we're both faced -- feeling right now. But if you can share any of that insight.

MEYN: That solidifies my support. I -- you know, I understand, you know, people believe that Trump's -- well, they know, he's bombastic, they don't really like him. He's a very polarizing figure. He has an abrasive personality.

But I truly believe he has the best interest of the country at heart. And you know, you make a point. And you know, the man is a billionaire. He could be sitting in -- like you said, he was sitting at the rally joking about he's like, I could be sitting in the Mediterranean yacht during my life, but I'm not, I'm trying to help run the country.

He puts in perspective there's a real cost for that. I mean, there's some people that really want him dead. And to me, this is just ridiculous.

Like, you know, we have a lot of political violence in this country. It comes from all (INAUDIBLE) it comes from everywhere. It just needs to stop.

You know, JFK and RFK had Martin Luther King. Now you're going to attempt the life of Reagan, and now you have an attempted, you know, assassination of Trump, it's just ridiculous. And it's just, you know, I don't think it's a gun problem. I don't think it's a violence problem. I think there's a lot of angry people that just have too much interest in politics, and it's a zero sum game to them.

You know, politics shouldn't be a zero sum game where someone every -- someone wins everything, and someone loses everything. And I think this is -- this is a result of that.

People came today, you know, we're very happy that we're here to support Trump. But you can -- you can tend to -- you can -- you can -- when you talk to people in the crowd, you -- there's a tenseness. They don't want to -- you know, they don't want to talk to family members about politics because it just gets too angry.

So, I don't know what to tell you. But this needs to stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Earlier, we spoke with our senior U.S. Justice Correspondent Evan Perez who told us what investigators know about the shooter, and what they're hoping to learn.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: We know that they were working to verify the identity of the shooter. His name is Thomas Matthew Crook, a 20 years old, and he's from Bethel Park, Pennsylvania.

Now, that's the scene right now of a massive, massive police presence. Police on the scene there have cordoned off a very large area around the home, where he believes -- he's believed to have spent living recently, and so, that's where the focus of this investigation is now.

But you know, it took a little while. As we reported earlier, Jim, and as the FBI said at the press conference a little while ago, that, you know, he didn't have any identification on him on this person, when the Secret Service shot and killed him there on that rooftop.

And so, as a result, it took additional work, they had to do biometric, they had to do DNA testing to be able to verify his identity.

And so, this -- you know, the location of where he was living, or at least at last known where place where he was living, and where the FBI is now. You know, trying to get evidence is in Bethel Park, which is outside of Pittsburgh, the rally where this incident occurred where the attempted assassination of the former president occurred is in Butler, which is about an hour away on the other side of Pittsburgh. Again, all of this in western Pennsylvania.

And now, of course, the work begins to try to understand what the motivation was, how long has he been planning this, when did he get the gun. How long has he been working on this? And really, there's nobody else at all who was connected this -- connected to this assassination attempt.

And all of that, of course is now where the FBI is focused on, in addition to, obviously some of the -- some of the -- some of the additional questions that we all have from watching that theme. You know, how was this gunman allowed to get to that location that perch on that rooftop with a clear view of the former president and not stopped before he got those shots off?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[02:50:17]

Now, the assassination attempt of course raising questions about security at the rally. Law enforcement sources telling CNN, the shooter was able to position himself on a nearby rooftop about 500 feet or less from Trump himself and the Secret Service says he was able to fire multiple shots before he was killed.

All right, let's go to Los Angeles and talk with retired FBI Special Agent Bobby Chacon. Thanks so much for the time.

The shooter had a clear view of the stage from the rooftop outside the venue. How surprised are you that somebody could do that? And that security sweeps didn't cover that potential line of fire?

BOBBY CHACON, FBI SPECIAL AGENT (RET.): Yes, I'm very, very surprised because if you look at the overhead schematic of that area, it's the perfect perch. It's the one with that's closest -- it's the rooftop closest to the front or side of the stage with no obstructions in the way.

I would have looked at that and put a pencil right and said, you know, you have to secure that rooftop right there. If you're not going to put somebody on the roof, put a couple of armed officers around the sides of the ground because you saw -- witnesses were saying they saw him coming up there with a rifle slung over his back. So, he wasn't trying to hide.

And so, it's really shocking that that particular building was left so unguarded with that stage being in the position it was.

HOLMES: Yes, I guess because what normally happens? I mean, the Secret Service, don't they always pre-check events, they scout them for risk assessment? Would you expected that building with a roof that had line of sight to the stage? Are you surprised it didn't have agents on it? I mean, they must have scouted? Right?

CHACON: I absolutely am surprised. Yes, they have what's called an advanced team, the advanced team goes there, they do a threat assessment. They look at possible threat lines and sniper positions. And that's where they set up their counter snipers to combat that.

But that building, again, is the closest building with a clear line of sight to where the stage was. I'm shocked that they didn't have somebody on that roof. I mean, you've got local and state police officers there to help. They could have drawn assistance from somewhere and put at least one officer or two officers on that roof. Yes, it's pretty shocking.

HOLMES: Yes. I think a lot of people are pretty shocked. When it comes to after the shots were fired. What is the protocol from a protection standpoint when something like that happens? What's meant to happen and did you see those steps take place?

CHACON: Yes, I mean, it was -- so, the worst thing happens is that, three or four foot barrier that's on the stage that has the red, white and blue kind of bunting on it. That's a -- that's a bulletproof. So, you bullet -- so the mo -- the first thing you want to do is get your protectee below that barrier. So, that's what they did. They got him down.

Trump started going down himself. I think he might have been instructed previously, they might have trained him to do that. Get down behind that barrier.

Number one, whoever's still shooting can't see you because the bunting is in the way. Number two, that bunting is bulletproof. So, that's what they did, they got him down.

Then once you get them down, then you have to figure out how to basically get him up and get a mobile a little bit.

So, is he hurt? What is the extent of his injuries? I think Trump was asking about a shoe, he might have lost a shoe, was it when he went down, so you have to kind of -- there's a lot to take care of right there and get him off. You can't just kind of -- you know, so you heard them communicating. It was very choreographed. They train this way all the time. This is the team that surrounds Trump all the time.

He knows them probably by all that first names. They all know him. They get along very well, by all accounts, he really likes his detail. That's his personal detail. And they really like him.

So, there they are, they're on top of him. And now they've got to kind of get him up and still maintain a shield around him and get him off the stage. And that's what they did.

Trump stopped a little bit to kind of wave to the crowd. And -- but I don't think that was a significant delay. And they got it. They got him where they needed to do to get him off the medical treatment.

HOLMES: And it was interesting because they got him into an armored vehicle, which was literally steps away from the stage. We're in these events with somebody like Donald Trump, those assets what kind of assets are around and how close are they?

CHACON: Well, because you know, you have the double thing with him being a former president, so he always gets protection anyway.

So yes, you have bulletproof limousines or big SUVs, a follow car, lead car, and to protect the car, at the very minimum, you have police escorts and stuff all ready to go.

Usually there's an ambulance to pre -- you know, presence often travel with it on doctors, so you have medical care right there.

So, if it needed to -- needed to -- if he needed medical care on site, he could have got it, they probably made a very quick assessment, they probably had a medic in that SUV with him patching up or stopping the bleeding on his -- on his ear and seeing if he had any other injuries and route to the hospital, to where he was going to get advanced care.

[02:55:06]

HOLMES: It really does show particularly these outdoor rallies, how difficult it is to have 100 percent protection? What sort of changes do you expect to security around these public rallies? Are they worth the risk?

CHACON: You know, it's a tough, tough situation, because our political system is always supposed to be so open, you know, politicians, you know, shake hands and kiss babies. That's the -- that's the American way.

And so, like, you know, there are certain politicians that really get into that. John F. Kennedy was always wanting to walk over to a crowd and start shaking people's hands, probably drove the Secret Service crazy, you know, but there are certain politicians that are more hands on, like to get themselves into the -- into the crowds, Trump is one of them.

You know, these crowds love him, they show up in mass for him. They're very dedicated to him. He likes playing to his crowd and his base.

So, I think that that is a challenge. But it's always a balance for the Secret Service, you can't keep a protectee in a bubble the entire time because our system is supposed to be more transparent than that. Our politicians are supposed to be among us, you know, part of us, one of us.

And so, you know, there is that balance to be struck. And you hope always that we can have politicians that are -- that can be close to the people, that we're not going to -- that don't have to always worry about somebody taking a shot at them. That's kind of third world stuff. And, you know, we hope not to ever get there.

HOLMES: Bobby Chacon, thank you so much. Really appreciate you making the time.

CHACON: Thanks, Michael. Thanks for having me.

HOLMES: Now, political columnist, Salena Zito was just feet away from Trump at the Pennsylvania rally. She spoke with CNN's Anderson Cooper about what she saw the moments before and after the shots rang out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SALENA ZITO, COLUMNIST AND REPORTER, WASHINGTON EXAMINER: So, just before the president went on, I did talk to him backstage just for a few minutes, I was set to interview him after the rally. But I think it's just interesting to note that he was very excited, you know, sort of very happy to be in Pennsylvania. I think he recognizes the importance of the state and the importance of this rally this whole going to Wisconsin.

And so, I was in the bumper, the bumper is that area where journalists go, that is sort of surrounds the stage with the -- with the audience behind you and the president in front of you.

So, I was just speaking from him. We had just moved to his left. Myself and two photographers from the Washington Examiner, we were just through his -- I think it was his left. And I heard the pop, pop, pop, and saw the president go down.

You could see this little streak of red on his face. And then there were three more shots after that. I don't know, I haven't seen much reporting because there really had was no service out there afterwards.

But, you know, I saw him go down. And I don't think he fell down from my vantage point. I was maybe three feet from him. I don't think he fell down. I think that he went down to take cover.

And immediately you saw law enforcement around him on all sides. And he gets back up and I can hear him say two things. Something about I need my shoes. And I see him lift his fist up and people were cheering him and then he kept saying fight, fight, fight.

And then -- and then the advanced man from the Trump campaign. Really interesting, he weighed on top of us and kept us -- kept saying, stay down, stay down, don't move. And then they brought the president right past us, his hat fell down right in front of us. And then they took him off.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And I think we have a picture that -- yes, we have a picture. I think that of you. I think this was posted on your one of your accounts. That's I assume the advanced man, it looks like there's several people lying around you.

ZITO: Yes, that's actually my daughter and my son in law.

COOPER: Oh my gosh. So, your daughter and son-in-law were there, that must have been terrifying.

ZITO: Yes. My daughter is a photo journalist. And we were there, we were -- I was interviewing the president today. I was going to fly back to Bedminster with him and do an interview of long form interview, stories ahead of the -- ahead of the convention. So, I had, you know, a photographer with me.

And so, yes, and it's really interesting. And I suspect there's a lot of journalists appeal this way. Their -- your instinct is to keep covering it. Right? Like, your instinct is, I got to take a picture, I have to see what's happening. I have to -- you know, I have to chronicle this.

And but, you know, then you're -- the other instinct of like, well, I better stay safe.