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Donald Trump Injured in Assassination Attempt at Rally; FBI Identifies Shooter as Thomas Matthew Crooks; Biden Grateful Trump is Safe and Doing Well After Shooting. Aired 3-4a ET
Aired July 14, 2024 - 03:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SALENA ZITO, WITNESS: -- to feel this way, your instinct is to keep covering it, right?
[03:00:07]
Like your instinct is like, I got to take a picture. I have to see what's happening. I have to chronicle this, but then the other instinct of like, well, I better stay safe.
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MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN ANCHOR: I'm Michael Holmes. Our breaking news coverage continues in a moment.
And this is CNN's continuing breaking news coverage of the attempted assassination of former President Donald Trump. I'm Michael Holmes, appreciate your company.
The FBI says the man who tried to assassinate former President Donald Trump is Thomas Matthew Crooks, 20 years old from Bethel Park, Pennsylvania. Public records show he was a registered Republican and made a small donation to a Democratic-aligned group. Investigators say he opened fire on Trump at a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, before countersnipers shot and killed him.
As for Trump, he says that the bullet pierced his ear and a spokesperson said shortly after the attack that he was doing fine. It all happened while the cameras were rolling. Have a look.
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DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I said, take a look at what happened --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down to the stair. Move down to the stair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move to the stair. Hold, hold. When you're ready, on you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move. Move. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hawkeye's here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hawkeye's here! Move him to the stair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stair, get ready. Stair, get ready.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ready?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're good, shooter's down. We're good to move.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're clear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're clear. We're clear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're clear.
TRUMP: Let me get my shoes on. Let me get my shoes on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you, sir. I got you, sir.
TRUMP: Let me get my shoes on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold that in your head. It's bloody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, we got to move to the bus. Move to the bus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: As you saw that video progress, you saw and heard a series of pops, the former president raising his hand to the side of his head, the Secret Service rushing onto the stage and eventually, as you see, moving Trump from the stage to an armored limousine just off to the right of your screen.
As he was being taken from the stage, you could see the blood on the side of his face and the top of his ear. The Secret Service says the suspected shooter is dead. The video you see there appears to show the gunman after he was killed. And you can see on this map where the shooter was, atop that building towards the top right of your screen. Trump was on the stage marked on the map around the center of your screen. Officials also say one rally attendee was killed, two others critically injured.
Here's part of the statement that Trump posted on social media, quote, I was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear. I knew immediately that something was wrong in that I heard a whizzing sound, shots, and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin.
Hours later, Trump was seen in this video getting off his plane unassisted in New Jersey. The video posted to social media by his campaign.
Now, members of different law enforcement agencies involved in the investigation updated reporters early on Sunday morning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KEVIN ROJEK, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE IN PITTSBURGH: This evening we had what we're calling an assassination attempt against our former president, Donald Trump. It's still an active crime scene. As I mentioned, we have a number of agents on scene. We also are working closely with other federal agencies, our state partners and our local police partners as well.
We do not currently have an identified motive, although our investigators are working tirelessly to attempt to identify what that motive was.
LT. COL. GEORGE BIVENS, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: Within about 10 to 15 minutes, a number of sounds were heard and it became apparent that shots were being fired in that direction. It's a chaotic scene. Law enforcement, I believe, acted heroically, quickly identifying and neutralizing the threat, as well as responding to assist the various victims.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[03:05:01]
HOLMES: CNN Senior Justice Correspondent Evan Perez with more on what the investigators know about the suspect and what they're still trying to learn.
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EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): We know that they were working to verify the identity of the shooter. His name is Thomas Matthew Crooks, 20 years old, and he's from Bethel Park, Pennsylvania.
Now, that's the scene right now of a massive, massive police presence. Police on the scene there have cordoned off a very large area around the home where he's believed to have spent been living recently. And so that's where the focus of this investigation is now.
But, you know, it took a little while, as we reported earlier, Jim, and as the FBI said at the press conference a little while ago that, you know, he didn't have any identification on him, on his person when the Secret Service shot and killed him there on that rooftop. And so as a result, it took additional work. They had to do biometrics, they had to do DNA testing to be able to verify his identity.
And so the location of where he was living, or at least the last known where place where he was living and where the FBI is now, you know, trying to get evidence is in Bethel Park, which is outside of Pittsburgh. The rally where this incident occurred, where the attempted assassination of the former president occurred is in Butler, which is about an hour away on the other side of Pittsburgh, again, all of this in Western Pennsylvania.
And now, of course, the work begins to try to understand what the motivation was, how long has he been planning this, when did he get the gun, how long has he been working on this, and, really, if there was anybody else at all who was connected to this assassination attempt. And all of that, of course, is now where the FBI is focused on, in addition to obviously some of the additional questions that we all have from watching that scene, how was this government allowed to get to that location, that perch on that rooftop with a clear view of the former president and not stopped before he got those shots off.
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HOLMES: Now, earlier I spoke to Steve Moore, a retired FBI supervisory special agent and CNN law enforcement contributor. We were on the air moments after the suspect was identified.
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HOLMES: Now investigators know who it is, what are they going to be doing in terms of investigating him?
STEVE MOORE, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT CONTRIBUTOR: Well, they're going to, they're going to essentially write his biography. They're going to find out how he has been healthy-wise, mental health-wise for the last five to ten years, what he's doing, whether he's going to school, they're going to find out his belief system, they're going to look deeply into his online presence, what he's been looking at, what he's been reading and who he's been communicating with. And they're going to look at all of his financial transactions for several years back.
They're essentially going to have the book on him that his parents couldn't write. And at the end of this, they'll be able, hopefully, to find out whether, number one, anybody assisted him, and number two, what the motive was and use this as a way to understand better the threat to presidents, the threat to candidates.
HOLMES: Right. Now, you were -- and this is important, you were an FBI countersniper for two years. There is video of the countersniper team and we'll roll that as you speak to this they're seemingly reacting to the initial shots. I'm interested in what you saw and took for that from that as somebody who did the job.
MOORE: Well, what I'm seeing is that they appear to be looking right in the direction of the shooter. I think that they had been alerted to the shooter whether by radio or by hearing people screaming, they had been alerted to the location of the shooter immediately before they took their shots. Now, you can't just say, oh, there's somebody over there on a roof and shoot them. So, what they're going to be doing is looking, waiting until they see a weapon.
The problem is that in that in that area on the roof, there could have been a slight wall covering him, hiding him.
[03:10:03] And sometimes, I mean, we are taught as snipers to find rain gutters that go out of those little walls and shoot through those so that nobody can see you on the other side. So, they may have had a very obstructed view. But once they decided to take the suspect out, it was immediate. It was quick. It was accurate. It was text book.
HOLMES: But I'm curious your thoughts on where -- and we can maybe put up the map again. I mean, should that rooftop that he was on not have been cleared or better monitored? Should that shooter have been able to get up there and in position with line of sight in the first place?
MOORE: Clearly not. No, you're absolutely right. A sniper will tell you that a shot -- if you take a shot 100 to 150 yards, it's not quite a gimme (ph), but it is just about -- it is the shot that you are expected to make flawlessly. And so the fact that they allowed -- that somebody allowed that roof to be unmonitored, unguarded, that's going to be -- that's not on the on the counter snipers. It is on the planning or the execution. They could have planned for that roof and maybe something happened in the planning or in the execution of the plan where it was left unguarded.
But what I'm thinking, though, is that how did this guy get so lucky that he had decided to take the one place that was accidentally unguarded? That's just going to be something that we're going to have to really look deeply into. What did you make -- and we're watching video now of Donald Trump being taken off the stage. What did you make of the reaction of the Secret Service agents? They obviously trained for this. Was that pretty textbook? I mean, Trump paused as they were trying to get him off the stage, which probably isn't textbook. What did you make of how that all went down?
MOORE: Well, you're, you're absolutely right about that second part. First of all, I want to point out when you're looking at this, what you're looking at is a wall of bodies around Trump. They are bullet traps. They are using their own bodies as bullet traps to protect their protectee. That's the highest level of devotion, I think, of duty.
And I think that if you listen carefully, you can hear them going through well-practiced drills. And it's gratifying for me, who's been part of special teams, to see somebody who has trained for an emergency in the worst case scenario, not very from the training that they've had, not changing anything and not letting the situation overwhelm them. And certainly, it was impressive to me.
As far as the president standing up and essentially revealing himself as a target again, they certainly didn't want that. I'm sure they didn't expect that, and I'm sure that's going to be part of training for both the Secret Service and protectees in the future.
HOLMES: Yes. What does all of this tell you about how difficult it is to protect someone like the former president in that particular environment, open air, surrounding buildings and, and so on and on, and do you expect changes? MOORE: I expect drastic changes on this. There are just too many ways that you can improve that situation. That said, the Secret Service has to be right every single time, every single rally of every single candidate of every single month of every single year, they've got to be perfect. The bad guys only have to be lucky or right one time. So, it's going to happen. You just want to eliminate as many means that it could happen as possible. So, yes, things are going to change because of this, and I think they're going to have to extend perimeters and they're going to have to look more carefully.
The problem is, if you hold any kind of rally in New York City, you can't control any high ground. So, it's a problem that has no complete solution, but they need to get just a little bit better than they are now.
[03:15:02]
HOLMES: Yes, terrific analysis. Steve Moore, glad to have your expertise on this, I appreciate you making the time.
MOORE: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Former President Trump's plane landed at Newark Airport in New Jersey early Sunday morning after the assassination attempt. The White House says U.S. President Joe Biden spoke with his political rival earlier on Saturday following the shooting and has returned to the White House early from Delaware. Mr. Biden had been calling for unity in the shooting's aftermath. He says he is grateful to hear Trump is safe and well.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT: The bottom line is that the Trump rally was a rally that he should have been able to be conducted peacefully without any problem. But the idea that there's political violence or violence in America like this is just unheard of. It's just not appropriate. Everybody must condemn it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Reactions to the attempted assassination have been pouring in from across the political spectrum. Here is Senator Ted Cruz posting on X, this is horrific, wrong and evil. Thank God he appears to not be seriously injured. Meanwhile, Senator Marco Rubio, a top contender to be Trump's vice presidential running mate, said, quote, God protected President Trump.
Trump's political rivals also condemning the attack, House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries saying he's praying for the former president and that political violence is unacceptable. That's a sentiment echoed by Democrat Chuck Schumer. The Senate majority leader says he is horrified but relieved that the former president is safe.
Ron Brownstein is CNN's Senior Political Analyst and Senior Editor for The Atlantic. He joins me now from Los Angeles.
Ron, we talked last hour about this and talked more about it. How much of this can be placed at the feet of poisonous rhetoric, political hatred, really, that, that's run through American politics, particularly in the last few years?
RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes. And, look, we're in a cycle that is clearly getting worse. I mean we have almost without noticing it moved into an era where threats of political violence and actual attempts of political violence have become far more routine than really at any time in our history, even in the 1960s, when we had the horrific assassinations of JFK and RFK and Martin Luther King Jr. We did not have the breadth of what we have been seeing in the last few years, the threats against public health and local government officials during COVID, the threats even against school boards and librarians, the attempt to kidnap and kill the governor of Michigan, the attack on the Republican majority leader, in the shooting of, you know, in the house, threats against Supreme Court justices, threats against the judges in the Trump trials and, of course, January 6th itself.
Michael, the trajectory of American society at this point is pretty clear. Trump was the victim today. It is possible that tomorrow it'll be someone that Trump identifies as a threat. And so it really is, do we want to live like this, because it is pretty clear that we are on a pathway where these kinds of horrific events are only going to become more common.
HOLMES: There are elements of MAGA world that aren't afraid to to react to potentially things like this. What are the risks that in this massively polarized, divided political environment? This could spark an escalation of things, unrest or something else. So, are we in an increasingly downward spiral?
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I think so. I mean, you know certainly many of the Trump allies reacted to this basically by saying the Democratic criticism of him is out of bounds. It's what caused this. First of all, we don't know what the motive of the attempted assassin was and I'm guessing that when we do, it'll be somewhat incoherent politically. Someone this young who would do something like this, it's not clear they're operating on the same coordinates that we all think.
But while pointing to all of that rhetoric, I mean, look at the way Donald Trump talks about his opponents. He calls them communists and fascists and far left thugs and vermin. And we're basically locked in a dynamic and essentially says that they're all part of some vast conspiracy against him.
This is a horrific event but it is also a signal, I think. It is an opportunity for everyone in the society to kind of ask, like do we want to live this way?
[03:20:05]
I mean, it's hard to imagine that anyone ultimately benefits from a growth and the kind of growth in political violence that we're living through. As I mentioned to you in the last hour there, one of the counterterrorism officials said to me right after January 6th, I mean, we could be heading for our equivalent of the troubles, in Northern Ireland, where threats of violence are just much more routine than anything we've experienced before.
HOLMES: Yes, which I covered in the 1980s. I mean, how do you think both sides, Republican and Democratic, are going to handle this politically in the context of the campaign? Both sides conventions coming up, obviously.
BROWNSTEIN: Yes, I think there's a enormous choice ahead of the Republicans. I mean, certainly Trump's rhetoric over the last few years has been that every challenge he faces is essentially an attempt by the left to silence him, so as to marginalize and suppress his followers. And that is, as we're saying, we're seeing on Twitter from a number of his allies, essentially. They try to indict him now, they've tried to kill him. There's going to be some of that.
There's also the opportunity for Trump, especially because he is leading in polls to take a very different tack at the Republican convention and say something more like what I mentioned a few minutes ago, which is that this is an opportunity for everyone in society to look at the mirror and say, are we on a path that we want to go forward?
I think you saw that from Biden. I think that's a kind of an easy argument for him. The tougher question is how do they phrase their continuing belief that Trump, in a variety of ways, has shown himself to be a threat to democracy. Anything that was true about Donald Trump and his relationship to American democracy yesterday is still true today. That doesn't mean it is wise or prudent to express those concerns in the same way. And I think Democrats are going to be walking a tightrope and thinking hard about how they talk about these issues about rights and values and democracy after an event this horrific.
HOLMES: Yes. I mean, there are those on the left who are being criticized for making Hitler analogies and so on when it comes to Trump. You've got Trump calling his opponents fascists and communists and vermin. I mean, how can the political temperature be lowered right now, given the tensions, which Trump has stoked, of course, but given the tensions in the country in general, now?
BROWNSTEIN: It's not easy because there is -- as we see in polling, there is a growing share of voters in each party now who view a victory by the other side as a fundamental threat to the vision of America that they hold to. So, no one should pretend that it is simple to unwind what we are living through.
The only force we have going, I think, in the other direction is that I do not believe most Americans want to live this way. I do not believe that most Americans want to live in a society where political differences are attempted to be solved through violence or even at the level of acrimony that we now see in the way politics is conducted.
And, ultimately, it does come back to voters. I mean, voters can choose to reward the loudest voices or the voices that kind of seek some kind of common ground. It does no one any good to deny our differences. I remember in the 90s people used to say it's only the political leadership that's divided, not the electorate. That's clearly not true anymore. I mean, there are deep differences between kind of blue and red America about almost everything. The one thing they have in common, I think, is that they kind of recognize that none of us are going away, and that ultimately we have to learn how to live together better if we don't want more days like today.
And, as I say, for Donald Trump, as well as everyone else, this is a chance to rethink. I can't say I'm usually optimistic about the kind of rhetoric that he has used and whether it will change, but it is a moment for him, and as well as those who will compare him to Hitler to all kind of think about whether this is the kind of country you want to live in. Because one thing is clear, without changes, this is the direction we are going.
HOLMES: Yes, it's very worrying, all of it. Ron Brownstein in Los Angeles, good to see you, my friend, thank you.
BROWNSTEIN: Thanks, Michael.
HOLMES: Well, world leaders are joining in, expressing shock and dismay at the attempt on the former president's life. The Indian prime minister, Narendra Modi, says he's deeply concerned by the attack on Trump, whom he called a friend, Mr. Modi, adding that violence has no place in politics and democracies.
[03:25:04]
In Japan, Prime Minister Fumio Kishida called for standing firm against any violence that challenges democracy. The top E.U. diplomat, Josep Borrell, calling the shooting an unacceptable act of violence against political representatives, which he said we're seeing again. While the Mexican president, Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador, condemning the attack, adding that violence is irrational and inhumane.
For more, Nic Robertson joins me now from London, and Nick, reactions very quick to start coming in after this happened.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, absolutely. And I just hold up this British newspaper for you here and you can see, look, it's front page news here in the U.K. And, of course, it's going to be around in the rest of Europe. It was Viktor Orban, the Hungarian prime minister, who is a good friend of Donald Trump, who went to see him in Mar-a-Lago last week. They share a lot of the same world views and have the same sort of political populist style. He sent his thoughts and prayers to the former president.
The British prime minister, Keir Starmer, who was in Washington just last week, didn't see Donald Trump, but did say that he was shocked about what had happened, condemned the violence, shocked and prayers also offered by the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, Anthony Albanese, the Australian prime minister, very strong in his condemnation as well.
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ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: Any act of violence is an affront to that and must be condemned unequivocally. This was an inexcusable attack on the democratic values that Australians and Americans share and the freedom that we treasure.
I say with regard to political issues, this isn't a day for politics. This is a day to unite, to express our concern regardless of one's political views. There is no place for the events that we saw today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERTSON: That was a sentiment we're really hearing echoed right around the global leadership. President Zelenskyy of Ukraine saying that violence should not be allowed to prevail. We've heard from you mentioned before, Josep Borrell, the E.U. foreign policy chief. We've heard from the European Parliament president. We've heard from Ursula von der Leyen, the European Union Commission president. We've just heard from the Moldavian president. We've heard now from Giorgia Meloni, the populist prime minister in Italy, right-leaning populist prime minister there. Everyone is coming out and condemning it. And obviously they'll have their concerns as well, Michael.
HOLMES: Yes. Most nations don't have this sort of thing happening. I mean, what are foreign leaders feeling about whether this just sort of amplifies existing concerns about the U.S. election? And Europe has had its own issues with political violence, but not like this.
ROBERTSON: Yes, Europe's political violence is sort of rare. It's episodic. You go back to the early noughties to get a spate of attacks, assassinations and attempted assassinations, various political leaders. You only have to go back a couple of months though to actually get the most recent attack on a European politician. This was the prime minister of Slovakia, Robert Fico. Again, like Trump, like Orban, populist, divisive. Fico sympathizes perhaps more with President Putin than he does with some of his contemporary European leaders. He was shot at close range by a 71-year-old gunman. There was a sort of a lack of security, a lapse in security. And Robert Fico, the prime minister, shot in the middle of May this year only was able to go take the sort of public political arena again just about a week ago.
So, these things, this violence is not utterly unfamiliar. It's just rare, but I think -- and that's why you know the background, I suppose, for the context of why a lot of European leaders look at the political discourse, the divisive political discourse in the United States and, frankly, the gun crime that exists in the United States. And this really feeds into their concerns about a very bumpy and potentially traumatic and troubling run-up, an election cycle.
And the outcome, of course, is so important to all countries around the world. What happens in the United States isn't just a political view that shapes what happens in the rest of the world, it shapes people's lives.
[03:30:09] The economy in the United States is such a driver. All of these things are connected and this is why people right now will be looking and hoping that the calmer voices are the ones that prevail.
HOLMES: All right, Nic, good to have you there. Nic Robertson for us in London.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TRUMP: That's a little bit old, that chart's a couple of months old. And if you want to really see something that's said, take a look at what happened --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down to the stair. Move down to the stair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move to the stair. Hold, hold. When you're ready, on you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ready.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Move. Move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hawkeye's here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hawkeye's here! Move him to the stair.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stair, get ready. Stair, get ready.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You ready?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're good, shooter's down. We're good to move.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're clear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're clear. We're clear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's move.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're clear.
TRUMP: Let me get my shoes on. Let me get my shoes on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got you, sir. I got you, sir.
TRUMP: Let me get my shoes on.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold that in your head. It's bloody.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, we got to move to the bus. Move to the bus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Watch out.
(END VIDEOTAPE) HOLMES: And you've been looking there a video showing the assassination attempt on Donald Trump. His advisers say he is fine and he will be at the Republican convention this week. One man who was attending the rally is dead, authorities say. Two others were critically injured.
Now, this video shows the suspect who was shot and killed on the roof of a nearby building, the FBI identifying him as 20-year-old Matthew Thomas Crooks of Bethel Park, Pennsylvania. Records show he was a registered Republican. The FBI appealing for the public's help in the investigation.
CNN's Alayna Treene spoke to a doctor who was sitting behind Donald Trump in the bleachers when the shots were fired. He says he helped carry the body of another rally attendee who was killed, describing the moments after the shooting as complete pandemonium.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. JOSEPH MEYN, ATTENDED TRUMP RALLY: I was attending the rally. It seemed initially like firecrackers went off. It was a little, it was very confusing, initially, because I knew it was gunfire, but I couldn't quite tell where it was coming from. It sounded like it was coming from behind the bleachers. And the man in the bleachers kind of to the (INAUDIBLE) bleachers took a gunshot wound to the head. He was killed. And another woman -- I don't know exactly where she was on the bleachers. I think she was either behind me or to the right of me. She got around in the -- she got hit in the forearm and hand, it looked like. But she was wounded, she wasn't killed.
ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: Can I ask you how you're feeling? Obviously you just witnessed something terrible happen. A lot of chaos was in the room. How exactly are you feeling right now, Joseph?
MEYN: It's something you don't expect. It's a bolt out of the blue, so it's very shocking. It's just -- I think a lot of people in the crowd just said it was fireworks going off. I knew immediately it was gunshots. I knew they were close. Then when I saw someone get hit and go down. That's when I knew it was probably serious.
It's a lot of confusion. It's just massive confusion throughout the event. I saw Donald Trump get hit. It looked like he had -- look he was either, I have -- I was running my camera at the time, but it looked like he was just turning his head to the side and it looked like he got grazed in the right ear with a bullet. I kind of saw that go on and then I looked down, I saw that the man died in the bleachers.
It's just complete pandemonium. Like every -- there was a bit of a delay, like there was a lot of confusion, but immediately it seemed like more gunfire erupted. I couldn't figure out where that was coming from. And then there was a state policeman there, I believe a SWAT team showed up relatively quickly. They jumped the side. There was a fence, it was next to the bleachers. They jumped the bleachers and started clearing the bleachers. And then I helped carry the body of the man down out of the bleachers. And I took him to a tent behind the bleachers. We put a towel over his head, but he's deceased.
TREENE: You were telling me before, when we were chatting briefly, that you never had a chance to make it to a Trump rally, that this was your first time. Would you feel safe coming back to another Trump rally?
[03:35:00]
MEYN: Yes. It's a very random event that happens. You I feel safe generally where I go in the country. I think the problem is we have a very -- everyone seems very angry and it makes you kind of -- I'll go to a Trump rally again, but I'll think twice. You definitely want to have your head on the swivel. It just seems like there's a lot of angry people out there.
And I'm not shocked that this happened. I'm shocked that I was sitting there and it happened next to me. Obviously, you never anticipate that to happen, but it's just horrible. We shouldn't be at a level of political discourse in this country where this is going on. It feels like it's 1968. It's horrible.
TREENE: Can you describe for me, Joseph, what happened after you saw the shots? And, I mean, I was there as well, Secret Service was screaming for everyone to get down. They quickly tried to clear the area. I'm just curious what that process was like for you in the aftermath.
MEYN: Very confusing. Like I said, I think everyone that was in the bleachers -- it was initially confusing when the gunshots erupted. Half, I think, of the crowd thought it was fireworks. I think someone thought they were playing a joke. And the people were close to the people that got injured and killed, you obviously knew it wasn't a joke. And it seemed like there was a push pull in the crowd. And that is one half of the crowd on the far end of the rally thought it was some type of weird joke. The other half of the crowd knew it wasn't and was trying to push or impress upon the rest of the crowd that this is serious. And I think everyone got the idea very quickly that it was a dangerous situation, and everyone just started hitting the deck.
And kudos to the Secret Service, again, when you're in these situations, a second feels like it's an hour, but it seemed like authorities were there very quickly. It just seemed to me, like I said, I was sitting there, it seemed like the rounds came from behind and they got this, they hit the gentleman in the head, he got a gunshot wound to the head and the other lady was injured. And then I saw Trump, President Trump, get hit and it looked like it was right here. But it seemed initially everyone was -- like half the crowd was in shock and the other half thought it was some type of weird joke. And it took a bit for everyone to get a good understanding of what was going on.
TREENE: You mentioned that you had spoken with the person who ended up falling. I believe you said, or he was with his whole family.
MEYN: No, his family watched it happen. So, they were in the bleachers when he got hit and he went down. I think they were trying to figure out what was going on. They were screaming for help. The body was -- they put a towel over the man's head. The body was removed from the bleachers. Then the police came back right after and tried to move the family, but they were all in shock. They didn't quite -- they weren't processing what was going on. The man was definitely -- he was dead the minute he was hit. I mean, it was something that reminded me of the Zapruder film from Kennedy. I mean, it was -- his head snapped and that was it. And I caught it out of the corner of my eye, and then there was just pandemonium. And, again, it's Pennsylvania, you don't -- you're out in rural Pennsylvania. You don't really anticipate this is going to happen, but it happened.
TREENE: You mentioned -- and I'm sorry, I know this is very emotional for you as well. You mentioned that, you know, This was your first Trump rally. How are you feeling about the election now? What are you hoping to see moving forward? We've already seen a lot of statements of support from across the aisle come in for the former president. I can tell you too from our sources that they say that Donald Trump is okay, that he is at a local facility being treated. But I would love just your view on -- I know you came here today to support the man that -- the former president. I'm curious how you think about this now.
I know it's a hard question given the chaos that we're currently in and the adrenaline that we're both feeling right now, but if you can share any of that insight.
MEYN: It solidifies my support. I understand people under -- people believe that Trump's -- well, they know he's bombastic. They don't really like him. He is a very polarizing figure. He has an abrasive personality, but I truly believe he has the best interest of the country at heart.
And you make a point, the man's a billionaire. He could be sitting in the -- like you said, he was sitting at the rally joking about it. He is like, I could be sitting in the Mediterranean yacht enjoying my life, but I'm not, I'm trying to run the country. It puts in perspective there's a real cost for that. I mean, there's some people that really want him dead. And, to me, this is just ridiculous, like we have a lot of political violence in this country. It comes from all -- it's not so much from the right. It comes from everywhere, and it just needs to stop.
You had JFK, RFK, you've had Martin Luther King. Now, you're going to attempt the life of Reagan and now you have an attempted assassination of Trump. It's just ridiculous. And it just -- I don't think it's a gun problem. I don't think it's a violence problem. I think there's a lot of angry people that just have too much interest in politics and it's a zero sum game to them.
[03:40:02]
Politics shouldn't be a zero sum game where someone wins everything and someone loses everything. And I think this is a result of that. People came today, were very happy they're here to support Trump, but you could -- when you talk to people in the crowd, there's a tenseness. They don't want to talk to family members about politics because it just gets too angry. So, I don't know what to tell you, but this needs to stop.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Well, Donald Trump appeared to have been shot in the upper part of his ear during that rally, a shot that came extraordinarily close to causing much more damage, possibly being fatal, of course.
CNN's Anderson Cooper spoke to Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta about the severity of the former president's injury.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Even though it appears that it was mostly the ear and the soft tissue around the ear, when you're in the hospital after something like this, you have to sort of evaluate the possibility that they may have still caused a skull fracture or something else in a significant blow to that part of the, the head.
When you watch that Anderson, a couple things. First of all, after you hear the bangs and the president -- the former president raises his hand to his ear, he then seems to go down on his own. That was one important thing. He's covered up by the agents there who are protecting him, but also probably doing a little bit of what is called a secondary evaluation, making sure, or trying to determine at least at that point, if there are any other injuries. We see what we see, but it doesn't mean that something else couldn't have happened as well in a situation like that.
The president stands up. He's raising his right hand. He seems to be walking on his own, again, surrounded by the Secret Service agents, but walking on his own. Those are all very important signs. But from a medical standpoint, from a trauma standpoint, getting a full evaluation still, you don't know what you don't know in these situations. Sometimes people can have injuries that are unrecognized at that point. And, by the way, besides the former president, people at the rally as well, you can have people who are walking wounded, may not actually fully recognize that they have been injured.
If there had been any other secondary injuries or unrecognized injuries from the scene, they would have likely found those by now, X- rays, perhaps a C.T. scan, really examining the president all over to make sure, again, there wasn't another injury from whether it was bullet or secondary projectiles, whatever it may have been, that probably would have all happened by now, Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: If -- again, we don't know the extent of how much, where in the ear, things like that, is it possible that would require -- would that just heal on its own? Would it require some sort of follow-up cosmetic surgery?
GUPTA: It may. I was looking at some of those images and they're kind of -- I mean, they're disturbing to look at those close-up images. You can get a sense of the trajectory of the projectile, stitches that would be necessary, what did it do to his inner ear, would it cause problems longer term with hearing things like that, balance difficulties, we, we don't know. I think that the biggest thing at this point. Is trying to figure out, was there any other secondary more dramatic or significant injury? Hopefully not, but that's I think the main thing. But my guess is there will probably be follow up necessary, if for nothing else, just for the cosmetic injury to the ear. But, again, this can be very serious. I mean, there could be a skull fracture underneath that injury. There could be damage to the ear itself, the inner ear.
So, they may have evaluated a lot of that already. You can do those sorts of evaluations pretty quickly, but it's got to be complete. You can't just go based on what you see here. You have to sort of do a full evaluation to make sure you're not missing something here. That's something the patient, in this case, the former president, may not even recognize themselves and the sort of -- with all the sort of -- all that's happening in that moment, there's things that can be missed. And that's why the, the, the medical team has to be so thorough.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Now, the assassination attempt is raising questions, not surprisingly, about security at the rally. Law enforcement sources told CNN the shooter was able to get himself on a nearby rooftop, about 500 feet or less from Trump himself. And the Secret Service says he was able to fire multiple shots before he was killed.
Let's go to Los Angeles and talk with retired FBI special agent Bobby Chacon. Thanks so much for the time.
The shooter had a clear view of the stage from the rooftop outside the venue. How surprised are you that somebody could do that and that security sweeps didn't cover that potential line of fire?
BOBBY CHACON, RETIRED FBI SPECIAL AGENT: Yes, I'm very, very surprised, because if you look at the overhead schematic of that area, it's the perfect perch.
[03:45:02]
It's the one with that's closest. It's the rooftop closest to the front or side of the stage with no obstructions in the way. I would have looked at that and put a pencil right and said, you have to secure that rooftop right there. If you're not going to put somebody on the roof, put a couple of armed officers around the sides of the ground, because you saw -- witnesses were saying they saw him coming up there with a rifle slung over his back. So, he wasn't trying to hide. And so it's really shocking that that particular building was left so unguarded with that stage being in the position it was.
HOLMES: Yes, I guess because what normally happens. I mean, the Secret Service, don't they always pre-check events, they scout them for risk assessment? Would you expect that building with a roof that had line of sight to the stage? Are you surprised it didn't have agents on it? I mean, they must have scouted it, right?
CHACON: I absolutely am surprised. Yes, they have what's called an advanced team. The advanced team goes there. They do a threat assessment. They look at possible threat lines and sniper positions, and that's where they set up their countersnipers to combat that. But that building, again, is the closest building with a clear line of sight to where the stage was. I'm shocked that they didn't have somebody on that roof. I mean, you've got local and state police officers there to help. They could have drawn assistance from somewhere and put at least one officer or two officers on that roof. Yes, it's pretty shocking.
HOLMES: Yes, I think a lot of people are pretty shocked. When it comes to after the shots were fired, what, is the protocol from a protection standpoint when something like that happens? What's meant to happen and did you see those steps take place?
CHACON: Yes, I mean, it was textbook. So, the first thing that happens is that three or four-foot barrier that's on the stage that has the red, white, and blue kind of bunting on it, that's bulletproof. So, the first thing you want to do is get your protectee below that barrier. So, that's what they did. They got him down. Trump started going down himself. I think he might have been instructed previously. They might have trained him to do that. Get down behind that barrier. Number one, whoever's still shooting can't see you because the bunting is in the way. Number two, that bunting is bulletproof. So, that's what they did. They got him down.
Then once you get him down, then you have to figure out how to basically get him up and get him mobile a little bit. So, is he hurt? What is the extent of his injuries? I think Trump was asking about his shoe. He might have lost his shoe when he went down. So, you have to kind of -- there's a lot to take care of right there and get him off. You can't just kind of -- so you heard them communicating. It was very choreographed. They trained this way all the time.
This is the team that surrounds Trump all the time. He knows them probably by all their first names. They all know him. They get along very well. By all accounts, he really likes his detail. That's his personal detail and they really like him. So they're there, they're on top of him. And now they've got to kind of get him up and still maintain a shield around him and get him off the stage, and that's what they did. Trump stopped a little bit to kind of wave to the crowd. And, but I don't think that was a significant delay and they got, they got him where they needed to do to get him off to medical treatment.
HOLMES: And it was interesting because they got him into an armored vehicle, which was literally steps away from the stage. In these events with somebody like Donald Trump, those assets, what kind of assets are around and how close are they?
CHACON: Well, because, you have a double thing with him being a former president. So, he always gets protection anyway. So, yes, you have bulletproof limousines or big SUVs, a follow car, lead car and the protectee car at the very minimum. You have police escorts and stuff all ready to go. Usually, there's an ambulance. The president is often travel with their own doctors. So, you have medical care right there. So, if he needed medical care on site, he could have got it. They probably made a very quick assessment. They probably had a medic in that SUV with him patching up or stopping the bleeding on his ear and seeing if he had any other injuries and went to the hospital to where he was going to get advanced care.
HOLMES: And it really does show particularly these outdoor rallies how difficult it is to have 100 percent protection. What sort of changes do you expect to security around these public rallies? Are they worth the risk?
CHACON: You know, it's a tough, tough situation because our political system is always supposed to be so open. Politicians shake hands and kiss babies. That's the American way. And so, like there are certain politicians that really get into that. John F. Kennedy was always wanting to walk over to a crowd and start shaking people's hands, probably drove the Secret Service crazy, but there are certain politicians that are more hands on, like to get themselves into the into the crowds. Trump is one of them. These crowds love him. They show up in mass for him. They're very dedicated to him. He likes playing to his crowd and his base.
So, I think that that is a challenge, but it's always a balance for the Secret Service. You can't keep a protectee in a bubble the entire time because our system is supposed to be more transparent than that.
[03:50:04]
Our politicians are supposed to be among us, part of us, one of us. And so there is that balance to be struck. And you hope always that we can have politicians that can be close to the people that don't have to always worry about somebody taking a shot at them. That's kind of third world stuff. And we hope not to ever get there.
HOLMES: Bobby Chacon, thank you so much. I really appreciate you making the time.
CHACON: Thanks, Michael. Thanks for having me.
HOLMES: Irina Bucur is a reporter with the Butler Eagle. She was in the crowd during the rally, joins me now from Butler in Pennsylvania. Thanks so much.
First of all, what did you see and hear when, when this started?
IRINA BUCUR, REPORTER, BUTLER EAGLE: Sure. So, I was in the crowd. We had a reporter actually in the enclosed media area, but I was with the other visitors and I just heard several gunshots. And everyone around me, including myself, we all ducked down. A woman behind me was praying. There is a mother in front of me who is telling her children to crouch down. And soon after that, people started standing up and started being evacuated by Secret Service.
HOLMES: Were you -- you went there to cover a rally. I mean, were you in disbelief initially? What went through your mind?
BUCUR: I think I was in shock for the first few moments, because I wasn't close to the bleachers or where former President Trump was standing. So, I didn't see what was happening until I got the information in bits and pieces. I was definitely in disbelief. And I think everyone around me was as well.
HOLMES: Yes. Tell me more about the crowd. You mentioned those immediately around you. But what happened after the former president was taken away? Was there any sense of panic or concern or, I guess, bewilderment? What did people do?
BUCUR: So, a number of people started evacuating before calls for evacuation took place. Other people just started filming on their phones. And as I was talking to some folks, it just seemed like everybody was, was in a daze. People were telling me that they saw a shooter on the roof. Other people were saying other things, and so there seemed to be a lot of confusion.
I spoke with a man who performed CPR on the fatally wounded victim. And, again, just a sense of, yes, the bewilderment, like you said, everybody is still reeling from this.
HOLMES: Tell us a little more about the place. I mean, you cover the area. What's it like? What kind of place is it? Who lives there?
BUCUR: Sure. So, it's the Butler Farm Show Grounds. It's, I would say, a fairly open, large area, where different local events are held. The rally was held outdoors, entirely outdoors, and the neighborhood in which the rally took place. I would call it a fairly quiet neighborhood leading up to the rally. Driving into the parking lot, you could see neighbors holding lemonade stands. It is really, a fairly quiet neighborhood. That's how I would describe it.
HOLMES: Yes. I mean, I'm sure they didn't expect in their wildest dreams anything like this to happen. Did you ever think you'd be in this sort of situation as a local reporter? How are you processing it?
BUCUR: I don't think that I ever expected to be in this situation. As soon as I heard the gunshots, like I said, I ducked for cover. And as the shock set in, I texted my editor immediately, told him what was going on. And I guess I'm processing it, just like everybody else. And just speaking with folks has helped me be a little bit more grounded.
[03:55:02]
HOLMES: Yes, that's a good thing to do, keep talking to people about it, shared experience.
Irina Bucur in Butler, Pennsylvania, thanks so much. I really appreciate you.
HOLMES: Well, Tim Naftali, CNN's presidential historian and the former director of the Nixon Presidential Library, says violence is not new to U.S. politics. He warns Americans to learn from similar moments in history when the country face deep division.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TIM NAFTALI, CNN PRESIDENTIAL HISTORIAN: We have seen violence like this before in presidential elections. You mentioned RFK, 1968, Robert F. Kennedy, a leading candidate for the Democratic nomination was struck down. 1972, George Wallace, a leading candidate for the Democratic nomination, he wasn't killed but he was paralyzed for life. 1912, the last time that a former president ran for office, Theodore Roosevelt was hit by a bullet. It did not penetrate his heart. It was actually stopped by his eyeglass case and his speech. And indeed, he continued his speech. He finished it. He said it takes more than that to kill a bull moose. That gave a name to his party, became the Bull Moose Party.
Violence is not new to our politics. We need to have this stop. We need, as Americans, to remember that, in the end, we are part of one country. And when we create -- when we spread hatred, when we spread poison, when we demonize, those who do not agree with us politically, we are laying the ground for the kind of violence that sadly reappears every so often in American politics. So, sadly, there's nothing new to this, but yet again, we have a chance as Americans to prevent it from happening again.
We got ourselves out of this. When I say we, I mean, not just famous people who are leaders, but local leaders. teachers, family leaders of all kinds. We came to the conclusion that enough was enough. And we had conversations about limiting violence. We talked about how to spread freedom. We actually engaged in gun control. We got out of war in Vietnam. Congress investigated abuses by governments. We pulled ourselves out of this. We had a president who resigned when he realized that he had gotten caught. And we had members of his own party say that it was time for him to resign. In other words, Americans chose a country over partisanship We have done it before, and we need to do it again.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HOLMES: Former U.S. House Republican Charlie Dent spoke about the need to improve trust in American society and dial back the anger and political violence.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Political violence is never acceptable. And sadly, in our country, we've had four presidents of the United States assassinated. Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley, of course, John F. Kennedy. We had the -- RFK was assassinated, Martin Luther King, George Wallace was severely wounded, Reagan shot. Gerald Ford, there were two attempts on his life. The shooter missed both times, as I recall.
And so, sadly, we have this terrible tradition. In Congress, the threat level against elected officials, particularly in Congress, is intolerably high. Of course, Steve Scalise, Gabby Giffords, and Nancy Pelosi's husband was attacked with a hammer. This is out of control. And I think a lot of it has to do with the political discourse that is -- it is just so angry, so vengeful and so much rage, that that's -- I hate to say it. And, of course, I hate the social media. A lot of people go on social media and say the most vile things. I mean, I haven't even looked at social media tonight. I can't imagine what's being said right now. But, truthfully, this is a big part of the, the sickness in our culture right now and it's translated into this horrific event. And thank goodness, the former president is okay. But it's a sobering moment for all of us.
And it's important that we respect institutions like, like the FBI and the Secret Service. These agencies, they're populated with professionals.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
[04:00:01]
HOLMES: A disturbing and distressing and historic day in American politics, a former U.S. president attempted assassination.
I'm Michael Holmes.
Do stick around. Kim Brunhuber will pick our breaking news coverage right now.
