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Biden Considering Major Ethics Reform for Supreme Court; J. D. Vance Speaks for the First Time as Trump Running Mate; Nikki Haley Endorses Donald Trump in Speech at Republican National Convention. Aired 10:30-11a ET

Aired July 17, 2024 - 10:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[10:30:00]

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JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Some new reporting indicates President Biden is seriously considering backing some major changes to the Supreme Court sources tell CNN some of the reforms would include setting term limits and creating an ethics code for the nine justices. If that were to happen, Biden would be the first modern sitting president to back major changes to the nation's highest court.

CNN's Joan Biskupic joins me now to discuss. Joan, how significant is this? I mean, it seems to me that this that the president is responding to a lot of, you know, fury out there among progressives aimed at this -- at the Supreme Court.

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SENIOR SUPREME COURT ANALYST: You know, Jim, that's exactly right. This is a political message for progressives who for years have been trying to get him to support any kind of reform efforts to change the Supreme Court.

You might remember back in 2020, he was getting a lot of pressure from the left when he was running, and he rejected an idea of saying that he would support term limits or support expanding the number of seats on the court and said he'd appoint a commission instead. And he did.

Back in 2021, he appointed a commission. The commission was not charged with making any recommendations. It was just supposed to, you know, kind of air some of the issues, and it did. And that went into a file drawer or set aside someplace and never to be talked of again. And now, if he does come through, we haven't seen the proposals yet, but it sounds like he's not talking this time at all about expanding the number of seats, which actually Congress can expand the number of seats on the Supreme Court.

It sounds like what's mostly in play is term limits. And, you know, for that, that could take a constitutional amendment because the constitution says that federal judges are appointed for life. Scholars debate whether there's a chance that somebody who's on the Supreme Court now could maybe be after, say, like, an 18-year-term limit, you know, go down to a lower court, but that would really have to be tested if it even went very far.

And just to give you an idea of what 18 years would mean. Currently, Clarence Thomas is in his 33rd year.

ACOSTA: Wow.

BISKUPIC: He was appointed in 1991 and the chief justice of the United States, John Roberts, is going into his 20th year on the court. So, 18 years is nothing for Supreme Court justices.

ACOSTA: Right. But, you know, we're in this sort of arms race these days between both parties and they're appointing -- trying to appoint younger and younger justices. And so, I mean, it does raise the question, I mean, should you get on the high court in your 50s and stay there until your 80s? I mean --

BISKUPIC: Clarence Thomas was 43 years old when George H. W. Bush appointed him. And part of where this -- the imperative for this kind of action on the part of the current president comes from is the fact that we have had a super majority of conservatives since 2020. And three of those six justices in the majority were Donald Trump appointees. He was quite a lucky president to get three appointments during his first --

ACOSTA: Luck and also what, you know, Mitch McConnell and Senate Republicans were doing in terms --

BISKUPIC: Yes, that's exactly right. It was a real partnership.

ACOSTA: -- of blocking Merrick Garland.

BISKUPIC: Yes, yes.

ACOSTA: And then seizing on the opportunity to replace Ruth Bader Ginsburg and so on.

BISKUPIC: Yes.

ACOSTA: And I guess -- I mean, how unprecedented would this be? We know FDR tried to pack the court, as they say, back in --

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BISKUPIC: Right. And that was back in the 30s, obviously. And just the fact that -- and in that case, the president actually was pushing, he was pushing hard, and that put pressure on the Supreme Court. And eventually, there were enough appointments -- resignations and appointments that he got his way with the Supreme Court.

With this, we don't even know if he could ever even get any of his ideas through Congress, because there have already been proposals in Congress by Democratic members to either have term limits or some sort of ethics reform, an enforceable ethics code, which the court doesn't have now, and those have gone nowhere, Jim.

ACOSTA: Yes. One of the other things we didn't get a chance to talk about, but we'll talk about it next time, is Biden has also talked about pushing for an amendment that would eliminate broad immunity for presidents in light of that immunity. BISKUPIC: And that would take a constitutional amendment, which would mean 38 states. And we don't see that in the near future, Jim.

ACOSTA: Very difficult to see that happen. All right. Joan Biskupic, thanks as always. Really appreciate it.

BISKUPIC: Thank you.

ACOSTA: Coming up, we'll go back out to Milwaukee ahead of tonight's speech from newly nominated VP Candidate J. D. Vance. It's coming up.

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ACOSTA: The Republican National Convention in Milwaukee has been a remarkable showing of total unquestioned support for Donald Trump as the party moves in lockstep behind their nominee. But last night, a small crack in the unified party front coming from two Republican -- prominent Republicans whose quarrels are sure to earn them a top spot among America's most famous political feuds.

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REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: One who's not coming back.

REP. MATT GAETZ (R-FL): What night are you speaking?

MCCARTHY: And then the other part that you have -- and the other part that you have is -- one person who raised the issue, he's got an ethics complaint about paying, sleeping with a 17-year-old.

GAETZ: Hey, you're not -- if you took that stage, you'd get booed off of it. You would get booed off the stage.

MCCARTHY: So, that's the way they would go. So, that's the biggest challenge we have.

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ACOSTA: Let's go on to CNN's Manu Raju in the Convention Hall. Manu, I mean, it's been months since McCarthy was ousted as speaker, but then Kevin McCarthy went on that revenge tour. I mean -- but it seems like part of that tour is going after Matt Gaetz any chance that he gets, and Matt Gaetz was trying to, what, stop that from happening on live television here on CNN. I mean, that was just wild. What do you know about that?

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This is a major personal feud that intensified last fall and it's not gone away. Of course, the Gaetz led the ouster of Kevin McCarthy. The first time ever a sitting house speaker was booted out on a vote on the house floor initiated by Matt Gaetz.

And for so long, Kevin McCarthy has said, this is all a petty grievance by Matt Gaetz, saying that he's concerned that he was facing in a House ethics investigation. There is an investigation going on into alleged sexual misconduct for Matt Gaetz, but Gaetz has denied any wrongdoing. At the same time, McCarthy is trying to prop up Gaetz's primary challenger ahead of his primary later this summer, and that's something that is also not lost on Gaetz himself.

But what is interesting too here, Jim, Gaetz is actually speaking tonight along with Nancy Mace, who's another one of those eight Republicans who voted out Kevin McCarthy. They do have the blessing of Donald Trump, despite how much anger they caused within the GOP ranks in the House, particularly among McCarthy and his allies. So, a bit of a split between the former speaker and the former president over some of these agitators in the House.

ACOSTA: Yes. And I got to think, Manu, that Matt Gaetz is going to take a shot at Kevin McCarthy. I got to think it's going to happen.

RAJU: You would think that he would on the -- and he probably would be received well here among these rally goers, but you know, maybe he'll seek some unity, Jim.

ACOSTA: Perhaps. And we do know a lot of these speeches are heavily scripted. And so, maybe they're not going to want Matt Gaetz to do that. And, Manu, I do want to ask you, you know, one of the things that we haven't been talking about quite as much is what's been going on in terms of this movement inside the Democratic Party to oust President Biden from the top of the ticket, despite backlash from Democratic lawmakers and calls for Biden to step aside. The DNC is moving forward with plans to virtually start this roll call process ahead of the convention, which would formally name Biden as the nominee.

I mean, the e-mail they sent out claims that this isn't a fast track, but it sounds as though they're trying to run out the clock quickly on this -- you know, this movement inside the party.

RAJU: Yes, no question. And look, this is -- this would make it much harder to try to replace Joe Biden as the nominee once he is officially the nominee, which is what's causing so much angst within the ranks. This initially was started months ago to move up the roll call process, a virtual roll call process because the laws involving Ohio, which could have prevented Joe Biden from being on the ballot by -- so -- because he's not officially the nominee.

Although, Ohio went ahead and made some changes itself. So, the people who are pushing for the Democrats not to go this route say that, look, there's really no reason to do this. Let's wait until mid-August. And in the one -- the convention is happening in Chicago. In the meantime, continue to engage in this debate about whether Joe Biden is actually the nominee who can carry them over the finish line, because there is so much concern in the aftermath of the debate performance and a number of poll -- poor poll ratings.

As you're seeing Republican unity on almost full display here, and that is completely the opposite for Democrats who are engaged in this back and forth because they're concerned about his -- what will happen in November. And Jared Huffman, who is a Democrat from California, who has been trying to prevent this from going ahead, this virtual roll call vote, Jim, he told me if this election were held today, he would get crushed, referring to Biden saying that we have to do something about it.

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So, that really speaks to the angst, anger, and panic within the Democratic Party right now.

ACOSTA: Yes, a lot of this was put on hold a little bit after the events of the past weekend, but it seems to be bubbling back up again. Manu Raju in Milwaukee. It's going to be interesting night tonight with J. D. Vance taking the stage. I know you'll have plenty to cover on that. Thanks so much. We'll be right back.

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ACOSTA: A few short months ago, Nikki Haley supporters might have been surprised to hear her full-throated endorsement of Donald Trump last night after she spent months going after the eventual GOP nominee. One Haley voter tweeting "she lied right to my face." In fact, Haley's pledge of party loyalty last night did mark a strong shift from a year's long slog of bruising barbs.

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NIKKI HALEY, FORMER REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Donald Trump has my strong endorsement, period.

I feel no need to kiss the ring. He's not qualified to be the president of the United States.

He's just going to become more unhinged, Kristen. Hold on. It's going to get worse.

And he's just toxic.

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ACOSTA: Let's discuss with CNN political commentators Bakari Sellers and Shermichael Singleton. Shermichael, let me start with you first. Nikki Haley, that's quite a transformation over the last few months.

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I don't know if -- Jim, I mean, look, political primaries are supposed to be competitive. You're going to make a distinction between yourself, your policies, your positions, and everybody else you're running against. We've seen the same thing on the Democratic side, and that is as it should be.

And when there is a primary and you're certifying the nominee of your party, then the expectation is that the opponents from that primary come together for the betterment of the party. And I think that's what we saw last night.

ACOSTA: Bakari, the Biden campaign is jumping on Haley's history of anti-Trump remarks. I mean, I have to think they're going to be included in a lot of ads this fall. They said this at a press release, Ambassador Haley said it best herself, someone who doesn't respect our military, doesn't know right from wrong, surrounds himself in chaos, can't be president. There's a home for every single one of those voters in the coalition. President Biden is building a patriotic Americans who will always put country over party.

What do you think, Bakari? I mean, I have to think there are still some Haley voters, as we were calling them, who are still uncomfortable with the former president.

BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR AND FORMER SOUTH CAROLINA STATE REPRESENTATIVE: Yes, I believe that's the case. And I think that the best state to point to is Georgia, where you have over 100,000 Haley voters who actually cast their ballot after the election was already over. And so, that was more of a moment for them of just doing what they felt was right in that particular moment.

I served with Nikki Haley in the South Carolina General Assembly. I sat beside her. Our desks were beside each other. I also served in the General Assembly when she was governor. And one of the things I can tell you is that this surprises no one who knows Nikki Haley. She has the backbone of an octopus.

And so, politically, when you have somebody who floats with the wind, this is not a surprise. I mean, I think this is one of the larger issues that Donald Trump actually had with Nikki Haley. The fact that she can do one thing in your face and behind your back, do something totally different. And so, that's kind of what we're seeing amongst the people around Donald Trump.

It's fascinating to see the Lindsey Grahams, the Marco Rubios, the Ted Cruzs, the Nikki Haleys, who he talks about like dogs. He talks about their wives. He called her bird brain. Sent literal bird food to her room. She says this and that. And then they kind of just crumble in its midst. And so, the Republican Party that we're seeing on display is a Republican Party that is not like any Republican Party before. And I would venture to say doesn't stand for much.

ACOSTA: Yes, he collects these critics turned converts like baseball cards. There's just no question about it. And, Shermichael, I mean, last night, Republicans called for unity and toned-down rhetoric after Trump's assassination attempt. But let's listen to what some of those lawmakers had to say last night.

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GOV. JIM JUSTICE (R-WV): We become totally unhinged if Donald Trump is not elected in November.

SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-FL): We have to fight every day to stop the radical Democrats From absolutely destroyed our great country. REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), U.S. HOUSE SPEAKER: They want to tear down those foundations and remold us into some sort of borderless, lawless, Marxist, socialist utopia.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Americans are dying, murder, assaulted, raped by illegal immigrants that the Democrats have released.

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): The Democratic party lies in ruins. The woke mind virus is dead.

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ACOSTA: That does not sound like a message of unity coming out of the convention, Shermichael.

SINGLETON: Oh, what it sounds like to me are Republicans who are showcasing the philosophical difference between conservatism and liberalism. And again, that is what we expect in a political process, an exchange of intellectual ideas.

Even President Biden, when talking with Lester Holt, was making the case about making the difference, the distinction between himself and the former president. And I expect Democrats to do that and they are within their right to do that, even though I may philosophically disagree. And we can have that that discussion and that debate.

But I want to twist this a little bit here, because from my Democratic friends, they do have some issues. We just saw this new polling that came out, CNN's been talking about all this morning where the president is falling behind in 14 states. Now, if Democrats are really sagacious, they would remove the top of their ticket and more than likely go with their vice president, who appears to me, based on the readily available data, to be a much more competitive alternative

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ACOSTA: Yes.

SINGLETON: And so, I think we need to calm down a little bit here, Jim. Allow people to make philosophical --

ACOSTA: Well, we just may be getting back to -- yes. We may just be getting back to the campaign. Bakari, last night, the crowd took some cues from Trump on many things, including when to stand. I don't know if we have any video to show that, but our Phil Mattingly noted, it looked like a congregation following a priest during mass.

There has been a lot of religiosity surrounding the former president since Saturday. What do you make of that?

SELLERS: Oh, hypocritical. Look, I think you just -- it's hard to address religiosity when you just played that clip. When you played that clip that Shermichael was able to pontificate on, and you were able to see Rafael Cruz espouse that level of ignorance, when you were able to see Mike Johnson kind of go to those depths of going low to characterize his opponents, that is nothing religious about that. That is not a Christ-like following or convention. And so, that is my problem with the hypocrisy of the Republican Party, and that is what's on display.

I also want to push back because we have given Republicans, over this first two days, this unfettered, unwavering narrative of unity. I just have to call BS on that. And the reason being is because Mitt Romney ain't there, right? Dick Cheney is not there. Mike Pence is in Montana. George Bush is not there. Liz Cheney is not there.

ACOSTA: Yes.

SELLERS: And so, look, I get it and I get the narrative, and I heard Manu talk about that before and I heard you talk about it, but I also want to be extremely clear, this party is unified around a singular man, not an idea, not a principle, not what's best for the country. It's a cult. And so, that's -- that is my issue with unity.

ACOSTA: Good point. All right, guys. I have to answer to a higher power and that is the commercial break. But, Shemichael and Bakari --

SELLERS: You got to get --

ACOSTA: -- gentlemen, thanks a lot. We got to you both twice. Thanks a lot. Yes. Higher authority. No question. A divine intervention. We'll be right back. See you guys.

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