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President Biden Drops Out Of The Presidential Race; Kamala Harris Plans To Earn And Win Nomination. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired July 21, 2024 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST: If you're just joining us, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington, Kaitlan Collins joins us from New York. I want to welcome our viewers here in the United States and around the world. We're following very fast-moving, major breaking news.
President Biden has dropped out of the 2024 presidential race and is publicly endorsing Vice President Kamala Harris to be the Democratic presidential nominee. He made the historic and stunning announcement at around 1:45 p.m. Eastern Time earlier today, sending out a statement that reshapes the 2024 presidential race just one month before the Democratic National Convention in Chicago.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: And Wolf, we're now learning from sources that the president's exit plans were set into motion operationally last night, finalized today before he made that announcement. We're also told by sources, according to CNN's MJ Lee, that Vice President Harris was not notified about that decision, that final decision from the president until today.
We are told that President Biden consulted his family, his top advisers by phone from his Delaware home. That's where he's been recovering from COVID for the last several days. And this is a decision that he kept very private, only notifying his senior White House aides and staff from the campaign moments before he went public with this unprecedented announcement.
That announcement, Wolf, read in part, and I'm quoting the president now, "While it may have been my intention to seek re-election, I believe it is in the best interest of my party and country for me to stand down and to focus solely on fulfilling my duties as president for the remainder of the term." I've got a team of correspondents here with us, Wolf, but let's start with you in Washington.
BLITZER: All right, Kaitlan, we've got a lot going on right now. I want to bring in our senior White House correspondent, MJ Lee. She's joining us from the White House right now. I know you're constantly getting updates, more information. What else are you learning, MJ?
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Wolf, this has been a remarkable afternoon. Just four months out from Election Day, President Biden making public today his decision to drop out of the 2024 race. He said that he had every intention of continuing to seek a second term, but in a letter released to the public this afternoon, he wrote that, I believe it is in the best interest of my party and the country for me to stand down and to focus solely on fulfilling my duties as president for the remainder of my term.
Wolf, this was an incredibly closely held decision that was made, we are told, within the last 48 hours or so. And almost everybody close to the president, including senior most advisers, were in the dark until basically moments before that letter went public. We are told that last night the president asked some of his closest aides, chief among them, Mike Donilon and Steve Recchetti, to begin the process of making this decision public, including by starting to draft that letter that we saw this afternoon.
The president, of course, importantly, has endorsed his vice president, Kamala Harris, saying he is offering his full support and endorsement to be the nominee of our party this year, and really called on the Democratic Party to rally around her and support her. But, Wolf, we really cannot overstate how much pressure the president had come under in recent weeks, ever since that debate performance at the end of June, from donors calling on him to forgo a second term and seeking a second term.
Democratic elected officials, of course, really putting the pressure on him to reconsider his decision. And initially, we saw a picture of a president that was incredibly dug in, even saying that he was confident in the polling and the data that he was being presented with, even in the face of polling and data that clearly showed that he was slipping in the polls, both nationally and in key battleground states.
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And then in recent days, we did start to see a picture emerge of the president perhaps being a little bit more reflective and willing to contemplate an end where the president would drop out of the 2024 race. Now, this is a man, Wolf, who had pledged back in 2020 to be a bridge and a transition candidate. And a picture that has emerged is one where the president, after getting into his job, decided that things were just simply too serious. And he believed that he really was the person most qualified to finish out the job that he had started.
But of course, with this decision today, he is now returning to becoming that transition candidate. And he is certainly hoping that he can pass on that baton to his vice president, Kamala Harris. Wolf?
BLITZER: These next several weeks and months will be critically, critically important. And as I keep saying, historic, obviously, as well. MJ Lee at the White House, we'll get back to you. I know you're always working your sources. Kaitlan, go ahead and pick it up.
COLLINS: Yeah, Wolf, hard to see how it can get more historic than what we are watching right now. This is now FEC official, as there has been a notification to them with a letter saying that this is to inform you that Vice President Harris is no longer a candidate in the 2024 election for vice president. It says Vice President Harris is now a candidate for United States president in the 2024 election and will henceforth be conducting campaign activities only in pursuit of that office. This is a statement to essentially let the FEC know this.
Wolf, it's hard to imagine that letter existing three weeks ago before that debate in Atlanta. But it is now the reality that is facing the Democratic Party, but also Republicans who are now in a wave of fresh uncertainty of who it is that Donald Trump is going to face on the ticket this November. I've got CNN anchor and senior political correspondent Abby Phillip here with me, as well as CNN's senior political commentator and former Obama administration official Van Jones.
Van, I mean, it is -- just to look at that in black and white on the FEC website and to see Harris is now the candidate for the 2024 presidency is something that would have been unthinkable a month ago.
VAN JONES, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, absolutely. It's just unbelievable. This year is very -- like we're tracking 1968 now almost beat for beat. You have an unpopular war in '68 Vietnam, unpopular war now Gaza. You have a new technology upsetting young people, color television. Now it's TikTok. A guy named RFK jumps into the race in '68, RFK, Jr. today. The sitting president quits, LBJ. The sitting president quits, Biden. The Democratic Convention is in Chicago. It's in Chicago. It's literally beat for beat for beat.
The most historic year before was '68. Now it's 2004 -- 2024. The only bad thing is in '68, Nixon won. And so we've got to break history now if we want for Trump to be defeated. But we are literally beat for beat. The most historic year in news before was 1968. We are doing it beat for beat in 2024.
COLLINS: Yeah, it is amazing to see the historic parallels. I mean, Abby, what are you hearing from people who are kind of wondering if this was going to get to this moment? But I mean, as of Friday night, President Biden was telling advisors privately, I'm not getting out of the race essentially so stop asking. Twenty-four hours later, as we've now learned from our reporters, he was drafting the letter that they published today.
ABBY PHILLIP, CNN ANCHOR AND SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I mean, this was a decision that only he made. And I mean, I spoke with someone on Friday who had been in very close touch with his inner, inner circle, who told me that as of that moment, he was not convinced that this was the right strategy. But everybody knows close to the president that only he can make that decision at this moment.
And at the end of the day, I think that time was of the essence here. Everyone knew it was not a matter of getting to the convention unless he was planning on staying in it. If he was going to get out, he needed to get out right now, like the beginning of this week in order to give whoever succeeds him. He wanted it to be his vice president, the best chance to consolidate the party. And that is already happening right now.
I'm just -- was speaking to several sources who are telling me Vice President Harris is calling around on Capitol Hill. She's calling around to Democratic organizations. She has a list of dozens of calls that she's making today and tonight. The message is what she said in her statement. You've been with us up until this point. I'm asking for your support. Stay with us. But the ball is in motion now. And she's starting from what I've been told with two of the biggest constituencies in the Democratic Party, the Congressional Black Caucus, the Congressional Hispanic Caucus.
She's made calls to the heads of both of those organizations today. That's again, I keep having to emphasize this because I think when we talk about voters of color in the Democratic Party, it sounds like, you know, a talking point. But this is a party that is powered by voters of color, by members of color, the DNC, the delegates who will eventually vote to decide who is the nominee.
Those people, the most powerful figures in those constituencies are black men, black women, Hispanic men, Hispanic women. She knows that. She is working those lines.
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And I think she's trying to lock this in, as a source told me, a fundraising source told me, it's 24 to 48 hours. That is what people are looking at. And if she can show a real command of this race, it will be over within just a matter of days.
COLLINS: And Jim Clyburn getting behind her, a lengthy statement. And right at the end, he said, I echo what President Biden said to endorse her as the next nominee. What does the next month look like for Vice President Harris, who said in her statement that she's not assuming she's the heir apparent to this nomination, but she said, I'm going to work to earn this nomination.
JONES: And that's what working to earn it looks like. You don't say, the president named me, and it's me. And because I'm a black woman, you have to give it to me, or you're a racist or a sexist. She's not doing that. She is doing the hard work. She's calling the power centers in this party. She's calling black organizations. She's calling Hispanic organizations. I guarantee you she's also calling donors.
PHILLIP: She's definitely calling donors.
JONES: Exactly.
PHILLIP: I (inaudible) confirm that. Yeah.
JONES: Exactly. So she's doing what needs to be done. And that's the way it's supposed to be. We are a party. We have rules for our rules to create the rules that make the rules. We are a rule-based party. And so she is following the rules.
PHILLIP: And that is happening right now. I mean, look, this is a really critical period for the Democratic National Committee. They're having meetings. There's a meeting planned for the end of this week about the rules -- COLLINS: Yeah.
PHILLIP: -- for the convention. And so this is happening right now. They're going to be putting it in overdrive, trying to establish what that process looks like for the convention with a nominee unsettled. So it's a high wire act right now for the entire party. They are aware of that. But right now, the work in the vice president's office is just moving at a frenzied pace.
JONES: You want to see how smart it is, though? Because there is a process. If you think you've got a better shot, you can jump in the water. Kamala Harris, she's like, look, the water's warm. Jump in. But once you go through the process, then you have to support our nominee. And so we're going to have a process. It's going to be clear and transparent. Everybody's going to understand what it is.
And then once we have a nominee, it looks like it's going to be Kamala Harris. Then everybody, you had your moment. If you want to jump, jump in. The water's warm. But once we have a nominee, everybody has to get behind her.
COLLINS: I mean, and what does that look like, though, in the sense of -- for three weeks, we have seen a major division in the Democratic Party of those who thought Biden should get out and said it. A lot of people thought it and didn't say it because they didn't want to. They thought he should make it on his own. And then other people who were who were firmly behind him. I mean, it is a question of a unified front. What that looks like as we wait to see, does anyone else get in the race?
PHILLIP: Yeah. I mean, look, everyone that I have spoken to, there's no question that once the vice president, if she is able to consolidate this quickly and show strength and get the majority of the power centers in the party behind her, there will be an immediate effort to consolidate around her. And everyone that I've talked to believes that this change at the top is going to lead to an injection of an enormous amount of energy.
The energy that, frankly, Kaitlan, has been notably missing for the Democratic ticket. There is a major enthusiasm problem that the party has or had up until this point. They have an opportunity to turn that around. But that being said, I mean, if you are one of the other names that have been floated around as someone who might want to be president someday, the question is, do you really want to take on the sitting vice president of the United States?
Do you really want to get into that fight right now? Or do you wait until sometime later? Those people are going to be making those decisions as we speak. And I'm sure we will hear from them in the coming days. But I think people underestimate that that's a very high bar for someone to decide to do that. Everyone knows that's a high bar.
Everything is kind of structurally set up well for Vice President Harris to inherit this. But she's got to show overwhelming strength in these next few hours. COLLINS: Well, and that's an uncertainty for the Trump campaign as well. I spoke to Donald Trump moments after Biden announced this, and he said that he believes he can defeat Harris. I mean, we don't actually know that. There's not really any polling to have a real time scenario here. And also, we don't know that she's going to be the nominee. We're seeing a lot of people line up behind her. But I mean, this is just a moment of uncertainty for Republicans as it is for Dems.
JONES: I feel so sorry for the Republicans. I'm just crying so many tears. They don't know what to do yet. Look --
COLLINS: Think of all the Republicans running against Biden right now, the Senate, Senate Republican candidates there. They've been using Biden. They're going to have change tactics.
JONES: Yeah. Definitely change tactics. But you know, the thing about it, if Biden -- here's the difference. You had a lot of swing state governors that were sniffing around. And obviously, you got to win Pennsylvania. Maybe it should be Shapiro. You got to win in Michigan. Maybe it should be Gretchen. But that assumed one thing. That assumed that Biden was going to let it -- leave the door open.
Once Biden comes forward and says, look, guys, this is my vice president. This is who I believe in. That makes it a much steeper grade for anybody else. Biden said, listen, it's up to you guys. Maybe somebody jumps in. It's going to -- to your point, Abby, she has a whip operation. She has the president's endorsement. To put all that together next 24 hours, 40 hours, very, very hard.
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PHILLIP: Just one quick thing, Kaitlan. I mean, I was at the RNC, talked to Trump officials about this. They insist, obviously, that the race doesn't fundamentally change. They think Vice President Harris is fundamentally going to be painted the same way as President Biden. But at the same time -- and the truth is, for the Biden campaign, they really had one main plan, which is to win the blue wall.
The question is, does a vice presidential pick on Harris's part and her unique -- that the unique things that she brings to this race, does it close some doors? Does it open others? A lot of people have different views of that. But there is a calculus. It's not just a clear advantage in one direction. There's going to be -- it's going to be a disadvantage in some areas, an advantage in others depending on what she decides about a vice presidential pick. And that's going to change the map for sure.
COLLINS: Yeah, safe to say it has fundamentally changed. Wolf, back to you.
BLITZER: All right, Kaitlan. Thank you. I want to get back to our panel right now. And Audie, let me start with you on this block, because as we know, the Democratic Convention in Chicago is coming up in a couple of weeks or so. Early voting for the presidential election actually starts in September. So what are the Democrats, what do they need to do to unify the base right now to get everybody working together on behalf of this new ticket?
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR & CORRESPONDENT: I think some of it is no alarms, no surprises, making this look like an orderly process. I'm also going to cheat and turn to Karen Finney, because I know this woman's phone has been going off. How is this going to work? A mini primary, a genuflect to Nancy Pelosi's office? How is this going to work?
KAREN FINNEY, FORMER DNC COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: So technically, the rules committee meets -- can only meet 48 hours after the nominee has dropped out. So 48 hours from now, the rules committee, that's the earliest they can meet. They did happen to have a meeting scheduled for Friday. I'm going to say they probably won't make it to Friday and they will have to decide.
One of the goals, though, between now and then is to continue to see this strong show of support. I don't know. Maybe some of the folks who've also been named as people who might run in an open primary may throw their support behind her and sort of take their names --
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Maybe to go a little bit further.
FINNEY: -- out of contention.
JEFF FINNEY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: What do you know, Finney?
CORNISH: Yea, are we looking at a food fight?
FINNEY: Well, I think most folks have come to recognize, particularly after the last three weeks where we have had so much more time talking about Joe Biden than Donald Trump. We would really like to not have that happen and let the convention be an affirmation of our party and an opportunity to thank Joe Biden.
And so, again, I think what you're going to continue to see organizations, members of Congress coming out and claiming their support. I mean, I've seen even people who are currently pledged delegates saying, hey, I'll supply (ph) -- what Joe Biden says that's who I should support, that's who I'm going to support. They'll still have to figure out a process. The delegates are still going to have to vote.
CORNISH: And that's a footnote here, too, because when I talk about it being orderly, yes, there's the money in the messaging. You also want this done like airtight legally, because obviously Republicans are waiting to pounce in terms of how is this money transitioned? Who is the next person? How is that voted on? So there are little pockets of vulnerability along the way over the next couple of weeks. And all those things are coming into play.
BLITZER: And Casey, she's got to pick a vice presidential running mate between now and the convention. It's not a lot of time.
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: There is not a lot of time. And that process, my understanding is that it is already underway, that it had quietly been underway. In fact, for some period of time, I know we had some reporting Friday into Saturday about some of those calls that were going out, because the bottom line was Kamala Harris had to be incredibly careful about how she handled herself as she was waiting for President Biden to decide what to do.
A misstep could have actually really jeopardized her ability to step into this role. And the way that she handled it, there was never any daylight between her and the president. Her team was always very careful to say that whatever they were doing was with the permission of the president. And they really did keep things under lock and key for the most part. It started to kind of push the seams there in the last 72 hours.
ZELENY: It definitely did. But I was just talking to an advisor and they said really this balancing act --
BLITZER: An advisor to Biden?
ZELENY: An advisor to the Biden-Harris campaign. So, this balancing act that she now faces, saying going through the process, but also seizing the reins. So this is something that, as Karen has been saying, it's really been happening as we've been sitting here this afternoon. The calls are going out. She has a long call list.
BLITZER: She's now in charge.
ZELENY: She is in charge and she does not want to be presumptuous. But again, the delegates, the 4,700 delegates are largely Biden-Harris delegates. I think it's a mistake to think of Kamala Harris back to her presidential campaign. There's a lot of talk about that. A lot of time has changed.
Joe Biden barely won the nomination as well in Iowa, New Hampshire. I mean, he struggled. So, the reality here is this is an entirely new moment for her. She is a grown candidate. That doesn't mean this is going to be easy for her at all. But the bigger challenge is you can just see the sense of democratic urgency is fueled by one, her wanting to close off challengers.
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But even more than that, the unifying factor is going to be Donald Trump and J.D. Vance and others taking shots at her. Time is running out here for her to unify the party. So we shall see. I think any of our productions would have been off a month ago. But it's hard to imagine anyone stepping up in a serious way and challenging her with the African-American woman being the lifeblood of the party. And she's a historic figure in her own right.
BLIZER: And she also has been the vice president of the United States for the past three and a half years and gained an enormous amount of experience in that role.
MATTINGLY: There's no question about that. Something I think she looks forward to talking about on the campaign trail if she is the nominee. I think you also can't miss the fact that over the course of the last three and a half weeks, despite the fact this has been a total implosion inside the party of the intraparty warfare, Democrats feel like she has comported herself quite well, including folks in the Biden team that maybe at times had gotten crosswise with her, that she really handled the moment and kind of rose to the occasion of the moment through a very difficult period of time.
To Jeff's point, I think there's two things in her statement that really kind of stood out to me, which is one that it was her intention -- is to earn and win this nomination that gets at the balancing act to -- that Jeff is talking about there. That's important. And two, the very last line, which is we have 107 days until Election Day. It says together we'll fight and together we will win. There's 107 days left. There is urgency right now.
She will have the balancing act. She will definitely partake in trying to make sure that balancing act works properly, not undercutting any process. But there is 107 days and the stakes could not be higher.
JAMIE GANGEL, CNN SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: One source said to me, this is speed dating and it's better if we don't have a lot of people to date. I just was talking to someone who's been working on the convention and the source said the message will be the same. The faces will be different. There are a lot of people scrambling to do videos.
But Karen, just when we were off during a commercial, we were talking about and Audrie you said this, these four names that are being floated that she might approach or be interested in talking to about being her vice president --
CORNISH: -- (inaudible) betting.
GANGEL: -- to bring the ticket together. And they were Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear, North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper and Josh Shapiro, Governor Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania. And one of the two of you made a very funny line about what do they have in common? They're all white men. This is you do not see --
CORNISH: So there they are.
GANGEL: There they are. I asked for that.
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GANGEL: They even made the graphic in the order that was right. But I think it's interesting that, you know, four white men and no Gretchen Whitmer, even though there's Michigan. I don't know --
CONISH: Let's be candid. It's like she has challenge.
FINNEY: But she has too much change, right. It's not too much change you can handle. But look, the other thing when we were looking at those names is to think about what happens. So if you select a Mark Kelly, you have a Democratic governor who can replace that seat. If you select a governor, you know, think about who is the lieutenant governor in these states where you have these governors.
Because again, part of the consideration is, well, wait a second, are we going to lose a seat that could be -- and, you know, you look at someone like Josh Shapiro, very popular, but he can help win in Pennsylvania from the governor's mansion. He doesn't necessarily have to be on the ticket. He probably would not appreciate me saying that.
I would, you know, if he's in consideration, I certainly wouldn't want to knock him out. But also there are considerations around the vetting, because as you all know, presidential elections are nothing like running for statewide office in terms of the level of vetting and the level of closeness that they will be evaluating and the other side will go after you.
HUNT: This is the thing that we aren't talking about. While we are, of course, many -- and Karen's party are lauding President Biden for the decision that he has made. The reality is he could have made this decision a year ago and given Democrats the crucible of a presidential primary because these primaries, let me tell you, having covered so many, most men and women, but especially men who believe that they can become president of the United States.
They think so highly of themselves. They approach the process thinking, I have gotten this far. I am worth so much. This is going to be something that I'm going to be able to do with relatively little problem. Well, call Ron DeSantis and ask him how that went, okay. Like, there's a reason why Republicans, for example, usually nominate someone who's running the second time around. Donald Trump, that wasn't true.
But look at Mitt Romney. Look at Bob Dole. Look like all the way back, because actually running is something that is unlike any other test that exists in American politics. And honestly, none of those people that were up on that screen have been through it. And they're going to have to go through it really, really fast.
CORNISH: We're living in an age where we just got this announcement basically through the political equivalent of the notes app.
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No interview. He didn't like make announcement in any formal -- I mean, this is -- we're in a different environment now. And the thing that strikes me is that Democrats, they are not in a mode yet where they have a candidate that they love. They're still talking about beating Donald Trump. And it's still talking about what pragmatically where this person could win and where this person could not. Whereas being at the convention, we heard people talking about loving their candidate on the Republican --
BLITZER: Everybody hold their thoughts for a moment. We're going to take another quick break, very quick break. Much more of our special breaking news coverage right after this.
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BLITZER: If you're just joining us, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Washington. Kaitlan Collins joins us from New York. We are following major breaking news. President Biden has dropped out of the 2024 presidential race and is publicly endorsing Vice President Kamala Harris to be the party's new nominee. He made this historic and stunning announcement at around 1:45 p.m. Eastern Time earlier today, sending out a statement that has upended the 2024 presidential race just one month or so before the Democratic National Convention in Chicago. And it is a decision he kept very, very private, only notifying his senior White House advisers and campaign staff moments before he went public with his unprecedented announcement.
Let's get to CNN's -- CNN anchor and chief congressional correspondent Manu Raju, who's joining us right now. Manu, update our viewers on the reaction you're hearing.
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, behind the scenes, there are a furious amount of phone calls being had between top Democratic members about who to get behind for the presidential nomination, who to get behind for the potential V.P. pick under a Harris nominee, assuming she gets nomination.
And Harris herself reaching out to key members of the House and Senate Democratic Caucus, we are told, as well as Harris's team trying to reach out to some of the senators, I'm told, who have not yet made an endorsement, trying to shore up some critical support at this time.
Also, Joe Biden himself, this move very much blindsiding even top Democrats. We're told that he has recently reached out to Hakeem Jeffries, the House Democratic leader. That came after Joe Biden went public with his announcement that he would drop out from this race.
Now, Wolf, both sides are now gaming out the impact that a Kamala Harris as a Democratic nominee would have down ticket. Recall, the big concern among Democrats is that if Joe Biden were at the top of the ticket, he essentially would sink their chances at keeping the Senate and taking back the House.
Now that if -- Kamala Harris is at the top of the ticket, what does that mean down ticket to these races? A number of Democrats that I have spoken to believe that they believe she could shore up support from some younger voters, from some minority voters, people who have been voters who have actually not been -- been fraying from the Biden coalition. Perhaps he can energize that base.
Republicans, on the other hand, believe that they can very much tie Harris to all the policies that they believe will be -- make her toxic to some of those more swing district Republicans, swing states -- swing Democrats and swing state Democrats as well in Senate races. Expect that to be the big debate here in the weeks ahead. And Wolf, just a note of that quickly out of the gate, Tammy Baldwin, who's facing one of the most difficult Senate races in the country, came out to endorse Kamala Harris. Other, though, vulnerable Democrats have kept their powder dry, including Sherrod Brown from Ohio, one of the most vulnerable Democrats in the country, yet to endorse Kamala Harris even though he praised Biden's decision for stepping aside.
BLITZER: Manu Raju reporting for us. Manu, thank you for all that information. Kaitlan, until today, we thought that Vice President Kamala Harris would start getting ready for a potential debate against the Republican vice-presidential nominee, J.D. Vance. But now, she has got to start thinking potentially about a presidential debate against Donald Trump.
COLLINS: Yeah, and we're seeing Senator J.D. Vance, who was just recently -- now formalized as Donald Trump's running mate in Milwaukee at that convention last week. He's responding to this news. But it's unclear who he is going to face on that debate stage if they'll come face to face, what that will look like. That was actually a statement that was out from the Vance campaign last week, asking who they were going to actually ultimately be facing. That was before President Biden made this decision, obviously, Wolf.
But this is something that Trump's campaign is tracking very closely, as CNN's national correspondent Kristen Holmes is following all the developments for all of us. Kristen, we heard from Donald Trump himself earlier this afternoon, but what more are you hearing in the hours as this news is sinking in for them just as much as it is for Democrats about what their plan is going forward now?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Kaitlan, they have been starting to prepare opposition research on a number of various Democratic potential candidates that included governors from Democratic states, but the real focus for the Trump campaign has been on Vice President Kamala Harris. There is a belief among Trump's orbit that that is who they will put at the top of the ticket.
And in that vein, we are learning that both the campaign and some of the super PACs surrounding Donald Trump are going to start putting out a number of attack ads on Vice President Kamala Harris. They have seen the recent polling that shows that of all the potential Democratic candidates who could be at the top of the ticket, Kamala Harris has the best name ID.
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But their belief is that it doesn't necessarily translate into what they call name education, meaning that a lot of America doesn't really know much about Kamala Harris or her record, which for them gives them an opening to point her in a negative light. Now, a lot of these ads, they're going to run in battleground states. A lot of this is just testing the waters because right now, they still don't know exactly who is going to be at the top of that ticket and what that ticket is going to look like.
And one of the things we had been reporting is in terms of research, modeling, data gathering, they had been planning for a race against President Joe Biden. They believed they could beat President Joe Biden. And you're going to hear a lot publicly from Trump officials, from people close to Donald Trump, where they say Kamala Harris is easy to beat, that she is not going to be a threat at the top of the ticket.
But the reality is when you really get through these conversations with some of his top political advisers, they are aware that any shift in the race could shift their planning. They know that there was an enthusiasm gap for President Joe Biden. How does moving that ticket around, even with Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket, shift that enthusiasm gap? They don't want any more turnout for Democrats in the fall. Obviously, if there's more enthusiasm around whoever the candidate is, that is going to lead to likely more turnout at the polls. So obviously, all of this, they are watching closely, but much of it is unfolding for them in real time.
COLLINS: Yeah. And what are you hearing in the sense of, you know, we're already seeing attacks from well-funded Trump super PACs going after Harris? It's not -- we don't know actually who's going to be the Democratic nominee, Kristen. So obviously, this is -- it's a bit of a holding period for the Trump campaign.
HOLMES: And it has been a holding period for several weeks. That's why whenever they were coming out and attacking Harris, you were also seeing them kind of starting to vaguely attack some of these high- profile Democratic governors because they don't know exactly what the campaign is going to look like.
The other thing to talk about here is the fact that Donald Trump seems -- they haven't spent a lot of money on advertising, but they have spent millions of dollars on modeling, on data collection, on formulating an entire campaign based on that. That was to beat President Joe Biden. This looks completely different with whoever else is on the ticket.
That is why you're also going to hear Donald Trump, if it is potentially Vice President Kamala Harris, going after her as saying she is part of the Biden administration. They believe that is one of their biggest assets, painting a broad brush because, again, what they've prepared for is running against Biden, his policies, his administration, him as a person, but also, they are hoping they can loop Kamala Harris into that, which is why, again, they are hoping that she likely is at the top of the ticket, but they are saying to me that they are preparing for all scenarios right now.
COLLINS: Yeah, a lot of scenarios to prepare for there. Kristen Holmes, thank you for that. Keep us updated on what you're hearing. And David Axelrod joins us at the table now. David, I just heard from a source familiar that says the Biden campaign just did an all call with staff who obviously is totally shell shocked by this decision, and that Jen O'Malley Dillon and Julie Rodriguez, who are running this campaign, talked about moving full steam ahead. They said everyone on that campaign still has a job. Obviously, they believe they are now working for Harris. But what are the actual calculations happening inside the Democratic Party about who the nominee is and who can beat Trump?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, FORMER OBAMA SENIOR ADVISER: Yeah, look, I think that the vice president clearly has an advantage in -- in this and may well be the putative nominee. But I do think, you know, the reason that people are holding back is because they're trying to calculate who gives them the best chance to win. And that's a very precise calculation.
There are basically three states that a Democrat has to win, and it's still the states that Joe Biden had to win, Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. There is a sense that the Sunbelt states may be a bridge too far. Pennsylvania has always been sort of the tipping state. Both campaigns pointed to as the one that that the Democrats had to have. Trump has other paths. So, the question is, who can run well in those states? And the question they're asking about the V.P. is, how will she run in those states? And that's why you're seeing the names you're seeing in terms of the vice-presidential candidates.
Obviously, Josh Shapiro would give them a good chance in the state of Pennsylvania. Mark Kelly, who's a war hero and an astronaut and a moderate with a strong record on border issues, he's also from a battleground state, would offer another set of assets to them. But they -- they need to -- they need to demonstrate it's fine to mobilize the CBC and the Hispanic caucus. They need to make a case to the whole country as to why she should be president, why she'd be the strongest candidate for president. And B, they need to talk to these governors and swing state senators and members of Congress and say, here is why I think I can help.
[17:40:00]
PHILLIP: One of the interesting -- I mean, you described it as a precise thing, and I think it is definitely sort of like threading this very delicate needle at this moment. But the other aspect of this is the unknowns about some of these other names. And that's the thing I think that gives people a lot of heartburn as they're deliberating over who really should be at the top of the ticket, if they had their fantasy pick, which is how some of these have described it, as a fantasy football, but a fantasy pick, right?
But what does, you know, Gretchen Whitmer look like as an actual candidate to be a president of the United States? How does she, you know, actually help the Democrats, having not really been on the national stage before? And that's probably true of all of these other figures, a Josh Shapiro, a Gavin Newsom, all of them. And so, there is a sort of imprecision to what happens outside of Kamala Harris that I think is causing a lot of stress right now inside of the party. There are people who want someone else. But they also have to prove that those other people are not going to come with downsides that, frankly, they just don't know about yet because they haven't been on the scene.
JONES: The strongest case for Kamala is that she's battle-tested.
AXELROD: Right.
JONES: You don't imagine there's going to be some new skeleton to fall out the closet because she has been on the national stage. You know, she went through a national campaign. So, there is, I think, a certainty you can have, at least you know what you're dealing with -- with Kamala Harris. I think with some of the other folks, if you just had ChatGPT or Spock or a Martian, just as kind of like mathematically, you'd say, you've got to win Michigan, you've got to win Pennsylvania, you've got to win Wisconsin. And so, you say, well, look, you've got a Democratic governor or two of those three states.
COLLINS: Very popular ones.
JONES: Very popular. Shapiro is popular. Gretchen is popular. And so, you might start there. Well, but then, what about, she's female? What about anti-Jewish stuff? You would start at least considering those different possibilities. And so that process needs to have -- it needs to play out --
PHILLIP: Yeah.
JONES: -- because if you don't let that process play out and you say, well, just because she's a V.P, you got to take her, well, you know what? VPs get skipped all the time. Biden got skipped.
(LAUGHTER)
Quayle got skipped. Cheney got skipped. So, VPs get skipped all the time.
PHILLIP: But at this stage in the campaign, I think, is the issue, right? You know, when there's only a couple of months left. And one of the other things I'm hearing, I hear what you're saying about Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan, but just to throw out something else that I've heard when I've talked to Democrats, is that some people say, well, if she could open up the map in other ways, right? Roy Cooper, maybe opening up North Carolina, maybe that's a better state for her than Pennsylvania --
AXELROD: Yeah, although not enough, but not enough -- but not enough electoral votes to make up for it. So, she'd lose if that were the exchange she made.
PHILLIP: Yeah, so, she would have to -- she would have to more than that. It wouldn't be enough.
AXELROD: Yes, right, exactly.
PHILLIP: So, I guess what I'm saying is that just to tell you what I'm hearing from people, there is the blue wall, right? But there's also a calculation about how else might she change the map. Maybe it does bring some of the Sunbelt states back. Maybe it does bring Georgia back. These are unknown. I cannot stress enough. People don't -- there's no -- people cannot take the data to the bank on this stuff --
COLLINS: Yeah.
PHILLIP: -- because it's not factored in what we don't know about these other potential candidates.
COLLINS: Yeah, a lot of questions here. And David, I want to get your thoughts on the prospect of a delegate vote, but we got to squeeze in a quick break as we are following every development by the minute since President Biden announced he is exiting the race, throwing his support behind Vice President Harris. We're still waiting to hear from top Democratic leaders if they are also behind her as the next nominee. More after a quick break.
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BLITZER: We're continuing our breaking news, special breaking news coverage of this truly historic day here in the United States. I want to bring in Democratic congresswoman Debbie Dingell from the key battleground state of Michigan to join us right now. Congresswoman, thanks so much for joining us. I'm anxious to get your reaction to this decision that we heard today from the president.
REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): Good evening, Wolf. You know, when I heard it, I cried because it has been a very intense three weeks since the president did his debate. I know that this is a man who made a very, very, very difficult decision for himself. He has led this country. He had been in public service for four decades. And the humanness, we just can't forget the humanness of what this day is about. And I think he has done many good things, will go down in history as one of the most successful presidents in fighting for working men and women and families during his presidency. And look, this has been a tough three weeks and it's a very difficult day today.
BLITZER: Are you surprised, congresswoman, that former President Barack Obama and some other very prominent Democrats are not yet publicly endorsing Vice President Kamala Harris to be the next Democratic presidential nominee?
DINGELL: So, Wolf, I want to be very clear that I did endorse Kamala this afternoon, but that does not mean -- I'll look very hard and see who I'm going to endorse in any presidential primary. And because some elected officials are endorsing her does not mean that as Democrats, we should not have a transparent and open process. I'm supporting her because, one, millions of voters nominated a Biden-Harris ticket, she was on that ticket that they voted for, I know she's a capable woman, and Joe Biden, who was elected or nominated would have been formally done at the Democratic Convention, has given his support to her.
[17:50:01]
But everybody has to make their own decision. And she has to go out and run a campaign with all of the delegates to get elected at the convention. I suspect that we -- that's probably why former President Obama said what he did. We cannot have a coronation. We cannot have elected officials, you know, make anybody feel that she has been shoved down their throats. I think that at this time and this place, she is the right candidate for the reasons that I just said.
BLITZER: Are you confident, congresswoman, that Vice President Harris can unite the Democrats after the last few weeks of deep division and defeat -- and eventually defeat Donald Trump in November?
DINGELL: So, Wolf, you know what I'm going to say to you? It's not on her. It's on all of us. We've had a circular firing squad, which has begun to worry me deeply in the last week. It isn't her job. It's Democrats, that we have to unite each other, coming out of the Democratic National Convention behind our ticket, because we do know who the Republican nominee and his vice president are.
We have got to make sure that we are doing the contrast, that people understand what those policy differences are. And it's on all of us to unite and make sure that we are campaigning hard to make sure we know and get elected the person that we have to get elected so that women still have the right to choose, so that we don't have people in office that think January 6th was okay, and I could go through a long list of issues you will hear about between now and November.
BLITZER: Who do you think, congresswoman, might be the strongest running mate for Kamala Harris if she does become the presidential nominee?
DINGELL: Okay, I'm not -- it's like my head is spinning. It has been spinning for three weeks. I think that she's got to -- there are conversations that need to be had. We need to see who even the people are that would be interested if they were asked. And I'm just not going there today. My head is just spinning too many different other ways, Wolf.
BLITZER: I think all of our heads are spinning right now. Representative, thank you so much for joining us.
DINGELL: Thank you.
BLITZER: Kaitlan, back to you.
COLLINS: Yeah, Wolf can confirm that everyone's heads are spinning, trying to soak in what this news means, what it means for the race in the next few months. Of course, that is going to be something that is totally changed by today. And David Axelrod, I mean, there was -- there was essentially a delegate vote that everyone was wondering what that was going to look like for Biden.
AXELROD: Well, you know, they had set up a vote in advance because of -- because of Ohio's electoral situation and their unwillingness to recognize a candidate unless it came at it by a certain date. So that was the reason they advanced it. Ohio changed the law. They still said they wanted to do it. And it's supposed to happen as early as next week.
PHILLIP: Uh-hmm.
AXELROD: And the question is whether that happens or not, or whether they -- whether this actually goes to a convention. I think what's going to happen is that the vice president is probably going to work very hard to nail down the commitments of as many delegates as she possibly can in the next few days and say, I've got the number.
JONES: I think if she can't, she should, because otherwise, you're talking about an open convention. And so, this split race between certainty around Kamala and at least trying to give us a solid shot versus a concern, does the math math for Kamala Harris? Those are the things that are going to be competing. If she can wrap it up, she should wrap it up. But she may not be able to, and then you'll have an open convention.
AXELROD: Yeah.
PHILLIP: Yeah. I mean, I think it's really unknown as of right now. As David said, that vote was supposed to happen sometime after August 1st. I don't know if that's going to stick. It can be moved. My feeling is that it probably will be. But there is a scenario in which if she feels like she has the votes, she wants that vote to happen before the convention, just to allow Democrats to go into the convention knowing exactly who their nominee is.
I mean, having a day one where it's clear who the nominee is, who the running mate is, what the message is, would be hugely advantageous to them. But, I mean, an open convention is probably -- who knows? I don't want to say most likely, but it's possible and there's --
AXELROD: Better TV (ph).
PHILLIP: -- and there's a process for that to happen. There is a process for that to happen.
COLLINS: To see that Pelosi, Schumer, Jeffries, top Democratic leaders right now --
JONES: The Obamas.
COLLINS: -- the Obamas have not yet gotten behind her, is that they're waiting, they don't want to force the voters' hands. What is that?
AXELROD: Schumer -- Schumer and Jeffries have to worry about their members. Every one of those people are focused on one thing. Anybody who knows Nancy Pelosi says she begins every sentence with, how do we win?
JONES: Yeah.
AXELROD: And that's the question they're asking right now. It's the question that Kamala Harris needs to answer. And anybody else who might step up, and Abby may be right, I'm not sure anybody else will, but anybody who steps up needs to make the case, this is how we can win and this is how I can help.
[17:54:55]
PHILLIP: Look, we talk a lot about donors in this, and I think for people watching, that probably sounds really depressing, that people who have a lot of money have such influence in the process. But the reason is, you can't run a campaign without money. And the people with money, a lot of them do want an open process. And that makes a difference because if they are so committed enough to that, that they're willing to say, we will bankroll the whole thing if it is somebody totally different, that's going to matter.
AXELROD: I think the money is going to be there from whoever is nominated, whether it's Kamala Harris.
PHILLIP: We don't know what that's going to look like just yet.
COLLINS: And Van makes a great point. We are three hours into this. We are following all this very closely. We're all going to be here all night, so don't worry. Thank you for joining us on this breaking news. I'm Kaitlan Collins in New York.
BLITZER: And our special coverage will continue in just a moment. Erin Burnett will be joining us from New York. We have much more on all the breaking news, and we'll have that for you right after this quick break.
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