Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
CNN International: Now: Historic Prisoner Swap With Russia Underway; WSJ Reporter Evan Gershkovich, Fmr. U.S. Marine Paul Whelan Expected To Be Released; Press Freedom Groups Celebrate Gershkovich Release; Turkey: 26 People Being Exchanged Between Seven Countries In Historic Swap; Two Children Among Those Released. Aired 11a-12p ET
Aired August 01, 2024 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[11:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.
ERICA HILL, HOST, "CNN NEWSROOM": Hello, and welcome to our viewers from around the world. I'm Erica Hill in New York.
We begin this hour with our breaking news coverage, as we are monitoring what is likely the largest prisoner exchange between the U.S. and Russia since the Cold War. You are looking, of course, here at live pictures from Ankara, Turkey. That is where the swap is expected to take place. Turkey, for its part, says 26 people, two of them children, and seven countries are involved here. And this moment, we should know, comes after months of complicated negotiations between Moscow and Washington. Turkey also saying now that Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich and former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan are actually part of this swap. And that deal, of course, would end a nightmare that has lasted for more than five years, really more than a year for Gershkovich.
CNN has a team of reporters across all of this, as we cover this breaking news this hour. I want to begin with our State Department Reporter Jennifer Hansler. Jennifer, you have followed this so closely for years, specifically the case of Paul Whelan, who you've spoken with a number of times. Bring us up to speed on what we know at this moment.
JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT REPORTER: Well, Erica, this is indeed a massive undertaking that is happening right now in Turkey. We have heard from the Turkish government that there were seven planes involved with this swap for those 26 people, 24 detainees being swapped between a number of countries to bring home these Americans, Paul and Evan, we know for sure were on those planes, according to Turkish officials. And as you noted, this has been months, if not years, in the making. The U.S., since Paul was not included in swaps that brought home Brittney Griner and Trevor Reed, has been working to get him home, and then once Evan was arrested last year, they also upped their efforts to get both of these men home. Both of them have been declared wrongfully detained. So, they have been working around the clock and scouring the globe for
people who they could offer up to Russia in a trade. We know that Russia often looks for parody in these cases. So, because they had accused both Evan and Paul of being spies, they wanted spies back in a trade. The U.S. did not have any Russian spies in their custody. So, they were going to allies to see who they might be able to offer. And according to the Turks, they were able to get Vadim Krasikov, who is a convicted Russian assassin who was in German custody as part of this deal. So, this is a massive, massive undertaking.
Now, we're watching those scenes from the tarmac, Erica. We may see some images like we've seen in past swaps, almost like a Bridge of Spies, where we see the detainees crossing each other on the tarmac as they are returned to their countries of origin.
Now, you noted that I've spoken to Paul a number of times. I think it's about -- been about a dozen times in his five years of detention. And he has gone through spurts of feeling very pessimistic about the efforts, but in recent months, he has had a lot of optimism about the work that was underway on behalf of him and Evan by the United States. I spoke to him the day that Evan was convicted, and he thought this might have greased the wheels for things to move forward. He also said he was able to very much identify with what Evan was going through in that courtroom. Take a listen to what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAUL WHELAN, SPEAKING TO CNN FROM RUSSIAN PRISON: I'm sympathetic and empathetic to him and his family because I understand what they're going through and my family certainly understands what they're going through. It's something that you just can't fathom, especially if you're a tourist, or like Evan, he was just doing his job, and you end up in a cage, in a courtroom, being told that you have to spend 16 years of hard labor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HANSLER: So, of course, the happy news there is neither of them is finishing out their sentence. They are able to come home and be reunited with their loved ones. Erica.
HILL: Absolutely. Jennifer, appreciate it. We'll continue to check in with you. I also want to know, press freedom groups at this hour celebrating this news of Evan Gershkovich's release. The Committee to Protect Journalists releasing a statement in which it said quote "Evan and Alsu have been apart from their families for too long. They were detained and sentenced on spurious charges intended to punish them for their journalism and stifle independent reporting.
[11:05:00]
Their reported release is welcome, but it does not change the fact that Russia continues to suppress a free press. Moscow needs to release all jailed journalists and end its campaign of using in absentia arrest warrants and sentences against jailed Russian journalists." And that is likely a reference there in terms of Alsu Kurmasheva, a Russian-American radio journalist.
CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson joining me now from Washington, D.C. Nic, as we look at all of this, the comments were interesting that Jennifer Hansler got from Paul Whelan in the wake of Evan Gershkovich's conviction, saying that he thought this would in some ways grease the wheels. That case also moved very, very quickly in Russia, which raised some eyebrows at the time, Nic.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: It absolutely did. It raised eyebrows because typically this sort of trail for espionage could last months, even a year. So, this clearly indicated something was different about this case. But, it also illuminates the deeply manipulative process by which Russia has not only imprisoned people like Paul Whelan, but actually used them by allowing them, by allowing Paul to make calls from jail, notably the day after Alexei Navalny was killed. To Jen Hansler, remarkable journalistic work on her part that she got the call.
But, from the Russian perspective, remembering that Vladimir Putin controls anything, deeply manipulative, because he will be fully aware that allowing Paul Whelan to speak on the phone to CNN really continues to broadcast the narrative of people left behind, prisoners in Russian jails, American prisoners in Russian jails, unfairly, unjustly convicted. But -- and in that particular phone conversation, Paul Whelan expressed his concerns that the fate of Alexei Navalny could be his fate. So, that was manipulative. It puts pressure on these delicate behind-the-scenes negotiations.
We are getting a few more details from Turkish authorities about some of the other people being released. They're speaking about a German national Rico Krieger who was being held in Belarus, we understood was a humanitarian worker, and also another critic of the Kremlin, Ilya Yashin, who was arrested in June, I believe, 2022, and he was sentenced to eight and a half years in jail. His crime, if there was one, which there wasn't, was being a critic of the Kremlin. So, these are some of the indications we're getting from the Turkish authorities.
And the Turkish also saying that this whole process has been done, this process of negotiation has happened, and they said, this is their words here, the dialogue channels have been run by the Turkish intelligence, MIT, Turkish intelligence, from the very beginning until the end, they say, when the -- when they were handed over, went the last moment of the processes. The Turkish are indicating, not only that their intelligence services helped facilitate this, but actually this process of exchange may have been completed.
HILL: And we're, of course, waiting on that confirmation, but it is telling that they would officially put that out there. Nic, appreciate it, as always.
Also joining me this hour to discuss, Ian Bremmer, who is President of the Eurasia Group, a consulting firm that studies global political risk. He is also President of GZERO Media. Ian, always good to have you with us and to get your perspective. I want to pick up a little bit there where Nic left off. So, first of all, what we are getting from Turkey, right, that these channels, as Nic said, have been run by Turkish intelligence from the beginning until the end when they were handed over. We could be getting confirmation at any moment now then, that in fact this is a done deal. What are you watching for in these coming moments, Ian?
IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT, EURASIA GROUP: Well, first of all, Turkey is critical. And let's keep in mind that there are a problematic ally for the United States and for NATO. They're the country that over the course of the last days has been threatening to attack Israel if Israel decided that they will go in and go after Hezbollah. At the same time, it was Erdogan and Turkey that uniquely facilitated the Black Sea deal that allowed for food and fertilizer to get out of Russia and out of Ukraine at the beginning of that war, because they maintain uniquely strong relations with the Kremlin at the highest level, but also are full NATO allies.
And for something like this, where you're talking about what looks like 26 prisoners that are being released from Russia, from Belarus, from Germany, from the United States, Turkey was really in a unique position to facilitate that deal, and there is no question, they've been working on this for months.
[11:10:00]
It was close. It looked like it was close back last February. And then, of course, when Navalny, Alexei Navalny was killed by -- assassinated by the Russians, that put a cropper to the potential deal. But, we got a lot more noise over the past days and weeks that this was moving and getting close again. And then, I got confirmation late last evening that Gershkovich had actually been released at that point. So, it's really good to see that Turkey, as a NATO ally, is playing that trusted role for the United States and many others.
HILL: You mentioned you got confirmation late last night in terms of Evan Gershkovich, as we're waiting to see those pictures, right? It's interesting to me what we are seeing and hearing surrounding this deal. To your point, things have been closer, the death of Alexei Navalny. What do you make of the timing? Why now? Is there something to read into it?
BREMMER: Not really. I mean --
HILL: OK.
BREMMER: -- in the sense that, again, this is something that both sides, and when I say both sides, I mean, NATO broadly, and Putin and the Kremlin, have been working on for a very long time. I think the fact that former President Donald Trump had been trumpeting that no such deal would occur until he became President, and that Putin would uniquely work with him, shows that he was out of a loop. And that's as is appropriate, frankly, I mean, there is a sitting President, and this was a multilateral deal involving lots of countries, and they were the ones that were engaged in negotiations, and they weren't leaking that, and that's as it should be.
So, this campaign narrative that's going on, and Trump was certainly trying to make something of that for himself, but in reality, this is a matter of utmost national security among countries that are fighting a proxy war against each other. So, it's not like there is any trust. This is a really challenging thing to make happen. And it got done. And I think it was going to get done as soon as was possible. As soon as the terms of the deal were fully fleshed out in a way that was acceptable for both sides, it was going to get done. And I think the elections played zero role in that, zero role.
HILL: It's an interesting note. It's also, as we look at what both sides needed, both sides wanted out of this. As Nic rightfully points out, Nic Robertson, this was a deeply manipulative situation in many ways. The fact that Evan's trial was done so quickly, because Russia wanted some sort of quote, unquote, "parody", right, a spy swap for a spy swap, despite those being clearly trumped up charges against Evan Gershkovich, what does that tell us? And do you have any concerns, I should say, about what it means moving forward?
BREMMER: Of course, I have concerns because Russia does not have rule of law. I mean, these people that are being released by Russia should never have been in jail in the first place, just like Griner, the other -- the celebrated WNBA star, never should have been in jail on a trumped up charge for years. And what the Russians do is they use this as leverage in order to have freed spies and assassins and cyber criminals that are clearly people that actually belong in jail. Russia is a pariah state. It is led by a war criminal. They do not have functional diplomatic relations with the U.S. or virtually any of its allies. And you're working with this country. That's a real problem. And it should be a strong message.
I mean, I am delighted to see Evan and Paul and others released today. I'm delighted for them. I'm delighted for their families. I'm happy for the countries that are involved. But, they should not have been in Russia, right? I mean, this is the point, is we have to make a very, very strong message to American citizens and citizens of our allies that you are in danger if you are sitting there. You're a potential hostage. You're at risk if you're traveling to, if you're living in a country like Russia today, and we can't deliver the message strongly enough in this environment,
HILL: Ian Bremmer, always great to have your insight, your expertise. Thank you.
BREMMER: My pleasure.
HILL: Just ahead here, our breaking news coverage continues, this massive prisoner exchange, and the news of it involves two Americans who have been held collectively for years. The very latest on the other side of a quick break. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[11:15:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: We continue our coverage now of this breaking news, the large- scale prisoner swap between the U.S. and Russia. According to Turkey, 26 people and seven countries are involved here. You're looking at live pictures there from Ankara, where that exchange is anticipated to take place. Turkey actually now confirming that two high-profile Americans, who are of course being held in Russia, are in fact part of that exchange, Wall Street Journal Reporter Evan Gershkovich and former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan.
CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joining me now from Washington. So, Priscilla, bring us up to speed on what we know and what more we're hearing or not hearing at this hour, as we wait for final details.
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we're waiting to hear more from the White House. But, we do know that President Biden and his administration have kept this a priority. That priority being securing the release of Americans wrongfully detained in Russia. And that is something that has included multiple intense diplomatic negotiations by this administration. And what we now are learning is that that will include Evan Gershkovich and Paul Whelan.
It's important to note too that in December of 2022 when the U.S. secured the release of Brittney Griner, the President at the time acknowledge that Paul Whelan was not part of that deal. They had worked to and U.S. officials had hoped that he would be, but he said at the time that he understood the Whelan family to have mixed emotions that day when Brittney Griner was released. Well, now, he is going to be part of this massive prisoner swap and a historic one at that.
Now, of course, part of what we also expect to hear from the White House is the importance of alliances and the President's relationships with world leaders. That is something that he has often talked about and was -- or appears to be particularly critical in securing this release again because it involved so many countries. But, it's also an election year, and this inevitably will have a political backdrop. If you will call, former President Donald Trump, the President's and Vice President's Republican rival, had said that if he were elected, he would be the one to secure Gershkovich's release. Well, that is not the case.
But, all the same, the President may come under scrutiny over who was involved in this swap, who was released back to the Russians. But, it is still historic in nature and a day of relief at the White House, should it all go as planned, when they get these two high-profile Americans back, including many others who were wrongfully detained and Russia. Erica.
HILL: Absolutely. Priscilla Alvarez with the very latest there, thank you.
Also joining me now CNN National Security Analyst Steve Hall. He is also the former CIA Chief of Russia Operations. Steve, I'm glad you were available to join us today on this. I'm just curious your initial thoughts as the details are coming out, 26 people, according to Turkey, involving seven nations, and we're getting a better sense of who some of the people are who are involved on both sides. What do you make of it? STEVE HALL, FORMER CIA CHIEF OF RUSSIA OPERATIONS: Well, first of all,
I mean, it is significant in terms of the number of people that are involved. The last one of these that I saw was 10 years ago with the (inaudible) actual spy swap spies for spies. And that was a much smaller number of people.
[11:20:00]
So, it's a significant undertaking logistically and administratively for both sides, a little less than Russia because it only requires one signature from one guy to make it all happen. But, if you've got six other countries that are -- or seven other countries that are also involved, there is a lot of administrative and logistical things that have to happen.
The thing for me that is most curious and I'm just fascinated to sort of ruminate about and see if we get further information on is, why now? Priscilla was just talking about some of the different options, and I was just alluding to some of the difficulties administratively and logistically. But, it'd be really interesting to determine why it is that Vladimir Putin decided now is the time, because of course, the United States and other countries have been pushing for this for literally years, and all of a sudden, Putin decides, yeah, let's do it right now. So, that'll be very interesting to determine.
HILL: So, digging into that just a little bit more, if we could, to your point, it is one signature, it is one guy in Russia who is going to make this decision, and that in fact is Vladimir Putin. So, we saw a fairly quick trial, a sham trial, which many U.S. officials have called it for Evan Gershkovich. But, when you look at the why now, how much do you think the U.S. election could potentially be figuring in there? How much could the situation in Ukraine be figuring in, in terms of this decision for Putin?
HALL: I think less the Ukraine piece because that, for the Russians, I think is in a different silo. It's in a different whole situation. And I'm not sure that there is a linkage there. The Ukraine situation is extremely complicated and it's going to take a lot of negotiation if it comes to that. But, all the other things that you mentioned in terms of domestic politics here in the United States, other political trends throughout the world, yeah, I think that does play a role.
I think there is a couple of things. If you're talking about doing something that's logistically and administratively difficult, you need competency on the other side of it, or at least the Russians feel that way, which they may feel that the Biden administration, regardless of what the policy differences are between the two countries, the Biden administration is at the very least administratively competent and can pull this off. I don't think it's a mistake to say that Vladimir Putin must have noticed when Donald Trump said not too long ago, I will be the one who does this. It's only me, and Russia will get nothing in return. I think Vladimir Putin said, yeah, I think we're going to go a different route on this one. So, that might also be playing into it.
HILL: And when we look at who -- the early reports of what we have in terms who is involved, it was interesting, my colleague Evan Perez reporting that there had been, when there was exchange when Viktor Bout, of course, was exchanged, that there had been some friction within the administration here. There was some concerns and resistance within the Department of Justice. We are not hearing rumblings of that at this moment.
HALL: We're not hearing rumblings about it. But, the Russians also insist -- as -- and we respect this because it's really the right way to do it in keeping all of these negotiations as secretive as possible, the Russians oftentimes will say, we want to do this through intelligence channels because they trust those channels are more discreet and more clandestine than other ways. But, at the end of the day, it's either going to go forward or it's not, and they're going to make it happen in the ways that they tried to do it. On the Russian side, it's going to be through their Special Services for the most part. But, it's -- yeah, it's really complicated stuff with a big tail to it.
HILL: How is this -- based on your experience, how do you see this playing out in Russia? How will it be spun in Russia? What is that storyline, that narrative?
HALL: That's going to be another really interesting thing, because of course, again, the Kremlin is going to control that narrative. And my guess is it's going to be, look, Russia is still a big player on the world stage. We still don't have enough wasta (ph), enough -- the hard and soft power to make these things happen, and we're going to go against what the Russians often refer to as this extra-territorial nature of U.S. law, meaning, if you break U.S. law, you can be captured anywhere. And the Russians really hate that because they like to break international law.
So, it's going to be interesting to see how it plays out domestically. That would be my guess. In this country, it's going to be interesting too, because remember, we could do none of this if we didn't have our NATO allies. Turkey is very heavily involved as the exchange point. Germany is involved. There is all sorts of countries. And when you talk about the importance of alliances, that's really critical in this kind of thing.
HILL: Which is also fascinating, as we talk about what we're seeing in this election moment. I also just want to let you know here, The Wall Street Journal now reporting that in fact Evan Gershkovich has in fact been released as part of one of the, in their words, largest and most complex east-west prisoner swap since the Cold War. So, again, The Wall Street Journal, which I should note, Steve, I have been refreshing and refreshing all morning, The Wall Street Journal so quiet on this as the reporting was coming out, but again, now confirming and understandably quiet, right, as they wait to make sure everything happens as it should, but reporting now that Evan Gershkovich is in fact has been released.
This moment, which has been, it's excellent news, has been so public, not just in this country but around the world in terms of the spotlight that it is shining on others wrongfully detained in Russia and elsewhere around the world, the way that some of those people who have been detained are being used and what they were doing at the time.
[11:25:00]
Evan Gershkovich reporting, doing his job there in Russia at the time. Can you -- I mean, if we take a step back and look at this moment, just put into context for us what it means that we now have this confirmed?
HALL: I mean, again, great news that these people are being released because they were being held as hostages. I mean, the idea that Russia has put forward a guy like Gershkovich, who is an accredited journalist in Russia, was being used by the CIA or any other intelligence service, is absolute garbage. There is -- that's just not done for obvious reasons. And so, it's -- he is -- he was taken hostage, as was Paul Whelan. I mean, he was charged with espionage, which I think was one of the things that probably the Russians use that as well. This is much more serious because of the charges, which is, of course, ridiculous, because they make up the charges out of whole cloth.
So, at the end of the day, when you're talking about finally some sort of justice being served, and I don't mean at all on the Russian side, but at least in the big scheme of things, these people being released from horrific conditions is really nothing but good news. The only bad news is the pariah state of Russia is going to continue to try to do this. Nobody should be going to Russia, who comes from the United States or frankly any other Western country at this point.
HILL: Steve Hall, always great to have you with us. Thank you.
I also want to get to some more breaking news at this hour, just coming into CNN. We're learning new details about the assassination of Hamas' political leaders in Tehran on Wednesday. Funeral services, of course, were held for Ismail Haniyeh in Iran today. Now, a source telling CNN that in fact he was killed by an explosive device. That source telling CNN, the bomb was actually hidden in a guest house that was being used and been hidden there for some time, set to detonate remotely.
I want to go straight to my colleague Jeremy Diamond, who is in Haifa, in Israel. Jeremy, you're getting all of these details in now, this confirmation on what happened. Walk us through what you've learned.
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that's right, Erica. Yesterday, Iranian state media as well as Hamas were claiming that this was a rocket that actually killed Ismail Haniyeh while he was staying in a home in northern Tehran, the Iranian capital, but I'm now told by a source, who is familiar with this matter, who was briefed on this operation, that this was actually a bomb that was covertly planted inside the guesthouse where Haniyeh staying. But, this bomb was actually planted about two months ago before it was detonated remotely in the early hours of yesterday morning. Only once it was confirmed that Haniyeh was inside his room in that guest house. That bomb, once it exploded, killed Haniyeh as well as his bodyguard.
Hamas and Iran have said that Israel was behind this assassination. Israeli officials have neither confirmed nor denied this. But, I have been told by this source that U.S. officials were briefed by Israeli officials only yesterday after this operation happened on Haniyeh's assassination. This has, of course, put this entire region on a knife's edge, as the possibility, the likelihood even, we should say, of retaliation, not only from Hamas and Hezbollah, which also saw one of its senior military commanders killed just hours before this, but also Iran vowing to retaliate, vowing to strike directly against Israel, according to multiple reports.
This obviously suggests a major, major security failure inside of Iran. But, not only just Iran's overall military and intelligence apparatus, but it's Iranian Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps, the IRGC, which was actually running and protecting -- charged with protecting this very guesthouse where Haniyeh was staying, indicating a massive, massive security failure by the IRGC, something very embarrassing for them, and obviously something that will lead to a lot of questions inside Iran about how such a massive security failure could have occurred.
So, again, a bomb planted inside this home where Haniyeh was known to stay when he was in Tehran detonated in the early hours of yesterday morning, and not only killing him, but potentially engulfing this entire region into a broader conflict that we do not yet know the consequences of. Erica.
HILL: Yeah, absolutely. Jeremy, really appreciate the new reporting. Thank you.
All right. Still to come here, a look at these delicate negotiations, the incredible coordination and more insight into what is being referred to now as the not only historic prisoner swap but historic because it is the largest between Russia and the West since the Cold War. Stay with us. Our breaking news continues.
[11:30:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: Welcome back. Just about half past the hour now. You're watching CNN Newsroom. I'm Erica Hill in New York.
Our breaking news at this hour, confirmation from The Wall Street Journal that Evan Gershkovich has been released in what is being referred to as the largest prisoner exchange between Russia and the West since the Cold War. Turkish intelligence saying it has coordinated this massive prisoner swap. These are also live pictures. So, you're seeing, of course, pictures on the left side of your screen, Evan Gershkovich, Paul Whelan as well, who is believed to be a part of this release.
And the right side of your screen, those are live pictures in Ankara, Turkey, where that swap, we're told, was taking place. Turkey says, in all, 26 people are involved. 24 of them had been prisoners. Two were children. And again, The Wall Street Journal confirming just a short time ago that its own reporter, the journalist Evan Gershkovich, and also the former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan are in fact part of the swaps. Now, this comes after months of complicated negotiations between
Moscow and Washington,
CNN International Diplomatic Editor Nic Robertson is joining us now live from Washington, D.C. So, that confirmation from The Journal. What more have we learned in just these last few minutes, Nic?
ROBERTSON: Well, there is a couple of other details that are coming from Turkish officials about two people that have been released. One is a long-term critic of the Kremlin. He was in jail -- jailed in June 2022. Ilya Yashin was sentenced for eight and a half years. If he had a crime, it was clearly that he was speaking out against the Kremlin. And so, he, according to the Turkish officials, has been released. And Rico Krieger, a German, who we understand to be a humanitarian worker, also released, according to the Turkish officials, a release from Belarus. So, these prisoners, of course, Belarus is a very close ally of Russia, but these prisoners coming from not just Russia, but now we understand Belarus as well.
HILL: I also -- Nic, I just want to point out too. I'm just getting this and you may be getting it in your ear as well, so, my apologies, I'm not trying to step on you, but confirmation we're just getting as well that both Gershkovich and Paul Whelan are now in U.S. custody. I'm also learning from our colleague, Kayla Tausche at the White House, that the families of the American prisoners involved in this exchange are in fact at the White House as well, anticipating a meeting with President Biden, gathered there. So, we'll be looking for more of that. The President, of course, being briefed in the Oval Office. And as you're pointing out, we're getting more details about not just the Americans involved here, but others as well.
ROBERTSON: Yeah. And the Turkish have said that there are seven countries involved, and we know that there are planes from a number of different countries, including Norway, Poland, Germany, that are on the runway there as well, as well as two planes from the United States. But, a huge moment for President Biden, who has been able to land this historic deal.
[11:35:00]
He has been able to do it with very quiet diplomacy, the full extent of it, and the details of which we're absolutely not privy to. But, it has resulted in what is an absolutely incredible day for the families, not only of Evan Gershkovich, but obviously Paul Whelan, whose family has been desperately waiting for his release for five and a half years, wrongly imprisoned in Russia, accused of espionage.
I think one of the big questions that hangs over this, and we may get a sense of this from President Biden, if he talks about this is, is what does President Putin get out of this? We know that there have been -- it appears that there are cyber criminals, Russian cyber criminals, held in the U.S. and other countries that are being released. He had, in particular, wanted this FSB colonel who was accused of murdering a Chechen national in a park in Berlin, in Germany, and imprisoned for it there. It was a very big deal to get him released and sent back to Russia. But, what else has Putin gotten out of this? Potentially, this opens
the door, potentially to implying that there are potential diplomatic paths that could move towards the end of the war in Ukraine. I think that's a very big stretch to say at the moment. We certainly can't say that. And we know that Putin is under pressure at home financially, although he won't admit it, from the sanctions that are on him because of his war in Ukraine.
So, there were many other reasons outside of these prisoners that Russia gets back, that Putin may have wanted out of all of this. These, I think, are going to be the questions that are going to be asked by us and other journalists behind the scenes, as the families get to celebrate and President Biden gets to share that time of absolute joy that they've all been waiting for.
HILL: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, to your point that you made earlier, using your words here, Nic, a deeply manipulative situation when you look at what is in this for President Putin. But, as we know, multiple things can be true at once. It is also an incredible moment for the families of these Americans and of others who have been released. Thank you, as always, for the reporting. We'll continue to check in on you, in with you as well.
I also want to note, we're just learning that President Biden is set to speak at noon Eastern Time. So, we'll be monitoring that. That, of course, just a little over 20 minutes from now.
I also want to bring in my colleague, CNN State Department Reporter Jennifer Hansler, whose reporting has been indispensable to all of us here at the network, frankly, and beyond, over these last several years, particularly as you're dealing with Paul Whelan, the Whelan family with whom I know you've had intense contact, in addition to Paul Whelan. Just bring us up to speed on what you're hearing and what you're learning at this hour, as we're having more confirmation about who in fact is involved and where some of these families are at the moment, some of them at the White House.
HANSLER: Yeah. Well, Erica, we know at this very moment, these four Americans, Paul Whelan, Evan Gershkovich, Alsu Kurmasheva, and Vladimir Kara-Murza, are in U.S. custody and they will be heading back to the United States. Now, their families have all gathered at the White House. They were meeting with the President, who was relaying this happy news to them this morning in the Oval Office, and we expect them to appear alongside him as he makes those remarks in just over 20 minutes.
Now, this deal was a massive one, a historic one, in the words of national security advisor Jake Sullivan. He said there has not been this level of trade since the Cold War, and to his knowledge, there has never been a kind of trade that involved this many countries. It was at least seven and this many people. So, this has been a months and months-long process that stretched throughout the interagency. We know it involved the National Security Council, it involved the CIA, involved the State Department, as they were working to try to get this massive deal together. And that is ultimately resulting in what we're seeing today. We saw this 16 people that were released from Russian detention as
part of today's swap, and then another eight people are being returned to Russia. Among the people going back to Russia are Vadim Krasikov, who is a convicted Russian assassin. He was serving out a life sentence in Germany, and the U.S. worked incredibly hard to get Berlin on board to release him. They had been working on a deal to secure the release of Alexei Navalny, the known Russian dissident, and then he passed. And we were told this sort of took the wind out of negotiations for a while. They had been counting on being able to get Germany to get on board because they were going to release Navalny. But, Jake Sullivan told his team, we have to come up with another way to get Evan and Paul and these other Americans home. So, that is really what was taking place over the past several months. Ultimately, about two weeks ago, the Russians agreed to the deal on the table, and that is what we are seeing right now.
[11:40:00]
So, you can see in this -- in runway shot from Turkey, there are about seven planes there. This is just a testament to how many countries were involved in today's swap, a massive, massive undertaking, Erica, now a really, really historic one.
HILL: Yeah, absolutely. Jennifer, appreciate it. I'll let you get back. I know you're also working the phones and working your sources at this hour.
I want to bring in CNN Senior National Security Analyst Juliette Kayyem as well. She was, of course, also a professor at Harvard University, former Assistant Secretary for the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. Juliette, as we look at all of this, some of the details that Jennifer was just laying out there --
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST, & FMR. ASST. SECRETARY, DEPT. OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Yeah.
HILL: -- 16 released from Russia, eight going back, including Vadim Krasikov, who, of course, former colonel in the FSB, was serving a life sentence in Germany for the 2019 murder of a Chechen national, a Kremlin opponent. It happened in a Berlin park. She was talking about how the U.S. really had to work to get Germany on board here. When you look at the number --
KAYYEM: Yeah.
HILL: -- of nations involved, just walk us through how delicate --
KAYYEM: Yeah.
HILL: -- those conversations are to try to convince another country, right, that they --
KAYYEM: Yeah.
HILL: -- need to give up someone in exchange for other nationals. KAYYEM: Yeah. I want to just take a step back. I too have never seen anything like this. When you think about the sort of carrots and sticks that have to work across essentially five to six different countries in terms of who is giving up whom, and what constituency is going to be annoyed at that, the fact that we were able to maneuver it is quite incredible. We're focused on Evan and Paul, as we should be. The Germans have their own constituency, which they had a murder in their own country of which they were holding a Russian. So, to convince them would require both. What would the Germans benefit out of this in terms of who the Russians would release, and then why would Putin be willing to do it, and that -- part of that has to just do with the equalness of the trade.
If you look at the totality of everyone being released, look, the Russians clearly got people who were guilty of crimes. We clearly got released people who were not guilty of crimes. People can be --- can question this. No one should really question this. This is a great deal, given that Russia uses false imprisonment as a form of diplomatic strategy. So, we have to play in their game. And it's a great day for the sort of complicated diplomacy. And I will say and it shows why an insular foreign policy simply cannot work. We would not have gotten Paul or anyone back, including Evan, if we did not get the Germans on board, and that is because of our strong relations with Germany through, of course, NATO.
HILL: Juliette, I also want to ask you about what happens now, right? We know there are families gathered at the White House. We're waiting to hear from the President. We know that those Americans are in U.S. custody. They'll be making their way back to the U.S. where presumably --
KAYYEM: Yeah.
HILL: -- they'll be offered that they can go, right, to Texas to what's known as PISA, this post-isolation support activities. It's basically --
KAYYEM: Yeah.
HILL: -- they bring them back in and sort of walk through everything that they've been through, especially Paul Whelan, more than five --
KAYYEM: Yeah.
HILL: -- years there. How important is that, not just for these former prisoners, as they readjust to U.S. life, but also for officials here in this country in terms of what they can --
KAYYEM: Yeah.
HILL: -- learn from that experience?
KAYYEM: Yeah. So -- and we're going to be different. So, I want to just be clear. So, Evan, out of the two high profile, there are others that are being released, but the two high profile, Evan has been -- we've sort of known his whereabouts. We have a much better sense of what was happening to him, where he was being held. That's because his trials essentially just ended.
Paul Whelan, on the other hand, I mean, we sort of heard about him again, when WNBA star Griner was released, but we really don't have a good sense. So, we have to be very, very careful about sort of what his emotional state may be. They are intelligence sources. They know what's going on, what the rules were, what the rules of a detention were. They may have picked up information, overhearing information. So, all of that is essentially an intelligence day to drop. It is that conversation.
But, the most important thing now, of course, is family unification, because it is getting them back with their families who have been waiting for this long. I really think about Paul Whelan's family, who have been on believably patient. They had never -- they have understood the dynamics of what had been going on, and you get them with their families and also begin that process and give them space and certainly let then pick the timing of how they want to decompress.
[11:45:00]
They are not the same now. I think this --
HILL: Yeah.
KAYYEM: -- the conditions that they were under were very different.
HILL: And it's so interesting. We saw this massive campaign for Evan Gershkovich --
KAYYEM: Yeah.
HILL: -- were well known perhaps for a lot of people and having this massive community of journalists behind him, but Paul Whelan's family, for their efforts, I've spoken to his sister a number of times over the years, they have been --
KAYYEM: Yeah.
HILL: -- really relentless in continuing to beat the drum for Paul's case and to get him released and really staying on the White House, as our own Jennifer Hansler has been reporting as well.
Juliette, I always appreciate it, my friend. Thank you. We're going to --
KAYYEM: Thank you.
HILL: -- continue to follow these details.
KAYYEM: That is a good day.
HILL: It is a good day. Yes.
KAYYEM: I know. I rarely get to smile. So, I'm pretty pleased.
HILL: It is always nice to talk to you on a good day, my friend, without question.
KAYYEM: Thank you.
HILL: Moving forward here, as we look at some of these delicate negotiations, as Juliette was noting, you're dealing with so many countries here, having to come to a decision is a massive coordination. We have some more insight at this hour on what is at this point not just a historic prisoner swap, it is also the largest that we've seen between Russia and the West since the Cold War. Stay with us. A quick break here. We'll be back with those new details on the other side.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: The breaking news, of course, at this hour, you're looking at live pictures from Ankara, Turkey. The President's office there says Turkey played a key role here. It was the mediator in this massive prisoner swap, an exchange of 26 people, 24 prisoners, from seven different countries. Two of the most well-known Americans who had been held wrongfully detained in Russia are part of that exchange. We are told they are now in U.S. custody. Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich was detained more than 15 months ago, convicted just last month of espionage and sentenced to 16 years. Marine veteran Paul Whelan has been held the longest, there for more than five and a half years.
CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joining me now with more, including I know we have some new details too on when we'll hear from the President, Priscilla.
ALVAREZ: That's right, Erica. This is a major and historic prisoner swap, and we're getting details from administration officials about how this unfolded, but also the President himself going to address this at noon. Now, before then, he has released a statement. Let me read some of that to you. It says "The deal that secured their freedom was a feat of diplomacy. All told, we've negotiated the release of 16 people from Russia, including five Germans and seven Russian citizens who are political prisoners in their own country. Some of these women and men have been unjustly held for years. All have endured unimaginable suffering and uncertainty. Today, their agony is over." Of course, that is also welcome news for the family members of these Americans who were held by Russia as well.
In fact, the President was meeting with family members of the Americans released as part of this exchange at the White House this morning.
[11:50:00]
Now, the White House, this administration as a whole, has made the release of Americans wrongfully detained in Russia a priority. That is something that has come up time and again by senior administration officials, and that was certainly the case here. But, recall that in December of 2022, with the release of Brittney Griner, the President acknowledged at the time that Paul Whelan was not part of that deal. U.S. officials had hoped that he would be, but in the end, they could only secure the release of Brittney Griner. Well, that's no longer the case today, as he is part of this deal and he has been released. And so, that is also a major feat for this administration, which had been seeking the release of these Americans.
Now, of course, this has included multiple and intense diplomatic negotiations and we're learning more about that minute by minute, including that the President was making phone calls on this to secure a deal only an hour before he dropped out of the presidential race a couple of Sundays ago. So, clearly, this has been something working -- that they've been working on behind the scenes. But, we're going to hear directly from the President at noon, again, after he has met with these families at the White House.
HILL: And Priscilla, as you walked through some of what we heard from the President there, calling this a feat of diplomacy, going through the nationalities of those who were released, there were four Americans. We've talked a lot, of course, about Evan Gershkovich, and of course, Paul Whelan. They are not the only two. Do we know at this hour if the families of all four of those Americans, some of them are dual citizens, are at the White House?
ALVAREZ: We're still collecting details on who exactly is there. We have been told by senior administration officials that it was the families -- family members of the Americans released as part of this prisoner exchange. So, you can imagine that all would be included, if not at the White House, perhaps in some other form.
But, certainly, you mentioned that this included so many countries, and the White House has often talked about the President's personal relationships with world leaders, in addition to the importance of alliances. You can expect we're going to hear more of that today, perhaps from the President himself, and how he had to use those relationships, particularly with Germany, to try to secure a deal here, because again, part of this was also trying to find someone they could exchange or someone that they could exchange to Russia to get these Americans released.
HILL: Yeah, absolutely. It's such an important point. Priscilla, appreciate it, as always. Thank you.
Stay with us. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HILL: I want to give you a quick reset here on our breaking news. You're looking at live pictures out of Ankara, Turkey. Turkey, we're learning, played a major role as the mediator in this massive prisoner swap, 26 people, 24 of them prisoners, from seven different countries involved, including two of the most well-known Americans who have been held in Russia, who had been wrongfully detained as part of that exchange, The Wall Street Journal reporter Evan Gershkovich, who was detained more than 15 months ago and convicted just last month on espionage, sentenced to 16 years, a Marine veteran Paul Whelan, both of them, Whelan had been held the longest in Russia for more than five and a half years. Several of those years spent, of course, in a Russian prison camp. Both of them released. President Biden is calling this a feat of diplomacy. The President is
expected to speak from the White House at the top of the hour.
[11:55:00]
We do know families of those who were released at the White House earlier today. We'll be continuing to follow these developments and more as we learn about the delicate negotiations behind the scenes to make this happen.
A quick break here, Stay with us. Our breaking news coverage continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[12:00:00]
