Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsroom
CNN International: Americans Released In Historic Prisoner Swap With Russia; Israel: "Eliminated" Hamas' Military Chief In Gaza In July; Ukraine At The Olympics. Aired 3-4p ET
Aired August 01, 2024 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[15:00:32]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: It is 8:00 p.m. in London, 10:00 p.m. in Moscow, 3:00 p.m. here in Washington.
I'm Jim Sciutto. Thanks so much for joining me today on CNN NEWSROOM.
And let's get right to the news. There's lots of it.
We continue our breaking news coverage of an extraordinary, groundbreaking international deal, the largest prisoner swap between the United States and Russia since the Cold War. Right now, "Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich and former U.S. Marine Paul Whelan are on a U.S. jet on their way home. They are among some 16 wrongfully detained prisoners released, to be reunited with their loved ones in the coming hours.
The White House says the president and vice president will greet their plane's arrival tonight at Joint Base Andrews, just outside of Washington, D.C.
President Joe Biden announced the news of the deal surrounded by some of the loved ones at the White House saying, quote, there agony is over. Biden also praised the power of diplomacy and global alliances.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The deal that made this possible was a feed of diplomacy and friendship, friendship. Multiple countries help get this done. They joined a difficult complex negotiations at my request. So, if anyone who questions, would allies matter, they do, they matter. Today is a powerful example of why it's vital to have friends in this world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: This sweeping deal involved seven countries with eight prisoners held in Western nations returning to Russia.
For more on this deal, how it came together, let's go to CNN senior White House correspondent MJ Lee.
This was months in works, an enormous web of diplomatic negotiations. What are you learning about what went on behind the scenes to come to an agreement here?
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jim, this was certainly an incredibly complicated and multinational deal as you were saying. And in many respects, actually years in them making if you consider the fact that Paul Whelan was already in detention when President Biden first took office in early 2021. So his release is something that the president had been working on throughout the course of his first term at the White House.
And we know of at least one phone call that the president made 11 days ago, the same day that he announced the American public that he would be abandoning his 2024 campaign. This was a phone call to the prime minister of Slovenia that now U.S. officials are describing as having made the final piece of this deal fall in place. So just remarkable that President Biden, as he was considering the end of his campaign, was actively working to get this deal across the finish line.
Of course, this is significant. That phone call because we now know that there were Russian nationals in the Slovenian custody who were of key interests to the Russians.
The other big part of this and perhaps actually the biggest part of this is, of course, Vadim Krasikov. This is the Russian assassin who had been in German custody that we now know President Biden and Vice President Kamala Harris had really pushed the German Chancellor Olaf Scholz on in their private conversations to consider releasing him as a part of this deal. U.S. officials have basically described him as the biggest fish that the Russians had wanted as part of this big agreement.
And, you know, here at the White House, it has certainly been an emotional and joyful morning. We saw Jake Sullivan, the president's national security advisor briefing reporters in the White House briefing room. And he grew emotional as he talked about the significance of this moment and how much has really gone into so getting this deal across the finish line. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE SULLIVAN, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I spent a lot of time with the families of Evan and Paul and Alsu. And most of the time, as you can imagine, those are tough conversations but not today. Today, excuse me, today was very good day and we're going to build on it, drawing inspiration and continued courage from it for all of those who were held hostage or wrongfully detained around the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: And even though, Jim, there is obviously this huge sense of relief and celebration here at the White House, there has also been somber acknowledgement of the work that still needs to be done.
[15:05:03]
In other words, other Americans who still do remain detained abroad. One name that has come up today, of course, is Marc Fogel. This is the
American who was sentenced to some 14 years at a labor camp in Russia. He had been teaching history in Moscow when he was detained. We are told by U.S. officials that there was an effort made pushing to get him to be included as a part of this deal, but they were unsuccessful this time. And now U.S. officials are pledging that they are going to redouble their efforts to try to get him out at some point in the future.
SCIUTTO: As you once said, emotional moment with Jake there, we can sometimes forget there are human beings involved in these negotiations and human beings rooting for this kind of outcome. A happy day, certainly, for all those involved.
We know that the president, he takes a great deal of pride in his relationships with allies, his foreign policy record. He is also in the final months of his presidency. I wonder how important he sees this moment in your view to his legacy.
LEE: Yeah. I mean, certainly incredibly important you know, even as U.S. officials are saying that the timing of this really didn't have anything to do with the fact that again, just 11 days ago, President Biden dropped out of the 2024 campaign. You know, White House officials have gotten a lot of questions about whether the fact that he knew that he was now going to be just a one-term president did that sort of give the president a nudge, give the administration a notch to really try to get this done before January when he will be leaving the White House.
But keep in mind again, as we were talking about before up for some of this, you the president has been working on for a number of years, particularly Paul Whelan, who has been in Russian custody for a number of years already. But Jake Sullivan in the White House briefing he was asked about the fact that the president's predecessor, Donald Trump, could not get a deal like this done. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: President Trump has said that he believe that he could have gotten the hostages out without giving anything in exchange? What do you say to that? What do you say to President Trump, now former president?
BIDEN: Why didn't he do it when he was president?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
LEE: Now, all of this is only going to be just a piece of President Biden's foreign policy legacy, of course, and U.S. officials right now are very much stressing that none of this is going to change the U.S.'s posture and policy more broadly when it comes to Vladimir Putin, particularly as Russia continues its offensive in Ukraine -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: MJ Lee at the White House, thanks so much. I want to play now some of the accounts of exactly what it's like to be detained in Russia and the inhuman treatment there of many of these prisoners.
First, prominent Russian human rights advocate, Kremlin critic and journalist Vladimir Kara-Murza. He was arrested in 2022, just after the invasion of Ukraine as Moscow cracked down across the board on any dissent. Kara-Murza and Biden have long known each other, both served as pallbearers at the funeral of the late Senator John McCain.
Earlier this month, I spoke with his wife, Evgenia, about what he's been through and her own fears for his life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EVGENIA KARA-MURZA, WIFE OF VLADIMIR KARA-MURZA: I know that my husbands' life is in danger and I've been fearing for his life since 2015, at least, when I first saw him in a coma with multiple organ failure, hooked on so many machines I couldn't count them because none of his major organs worked. But I know that my husband has been very strong in its opposition to Vladimir Putin, and he continues to be strong behind bars.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Why multiple organ failure? Because he was poisoned twice by Russia prior to the point nearly of death.
Also released today, Paul Whelan, he's spent over five years wrongfully detained in Russia on espionage charges denied by him and the U.S. government. Here's his account of life inside a Russian prison, speaking to CNN's Jennifer Hansler in June.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, JUNE 21)
PAUL WHELAN, DETAINED IN RUSSIA: Everything is dusty and dirty and nasty. And you do everything you can just stay cool and just to stay clean. The food we're served is horrible.
You know, we really do rely on personal purchases to stay healthy, you know, medical care is nil. There is no dental care at all. It's the worst environment you can imagine. I mean, it's unbelievable that anyone could even consider this human rights. It's nothing that you can get used to.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Yeah, a true ordeal for them now over.
I want to speak now to CNN senior diplomatic editor, Nic Robertson, for more.
Nic, some of these folks have been in Russian custody for years. We know that the U.S. is working very hard for a deal for some time. This administration, other administrations prioritize the freedom of U.S. citizens wrongfully detained abroad. [15:10:04]
Why now for Putin, I wonder? What's in it for him?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yeah, it's really hard to calculate because trying to figure out what's going on in Putin's mind at any given time, isn't -- isn't clear? I'm going to answer your question, Jim, but I think in reference to what you've just been saying about this horrible ordeal, we've seen the video of Evan Gershkovich, Paul Whelan and Vladimir Kara-Murza being escorted by the -- by the Russian handlers taken by the arm.
Evan looks in that video as the one who's bearing up, perhaps best. Paul Whelan looks very, very, very sort of bearing with it, if you will. But it's Kara-Murza there. You just saw him in the video, the one who had the organ failure, the one who was poisoned who is almost bent over almost physically protecting himself as it's going and I think that really speaks to the psychological as well as the physical way that they've been treated while why they'd been held in captivity.
I mean, Kara-Murza, you feel pain just looking at the guy, walk in there.
So why is Putin done this now? It absolutely isn't clear. He is released 16 foreign nationals and Russians to the West and received eight Russians and two children, Russian children, back in the other direction. So it's just a simple numerical imbalances, an imbalanced because the prisoners held in Russia were wrongly -- were convicted on trumped-up charges. There's no other way of putting it than that. And those who've been released include murderers, include spies, include a high-value people for Russia.
But why did Putin go for it at this moment? Maybe he believed the political time was the best time for him with the U.S. elections coming up, that he that he figured that he could get what he wanted through Biden and he couldn't get what he wanted through Trump. It's just impossible. It's just impossible to calculate why Putin did this.
However, I think we have to understand that the war in Ukraine hangs behind this. That Putin is overspending, that the sanctions are having an impact and is very likely more that he wanted beyond just these eight Russians back.
SCIUTTO: Yeah, to your point, Vadim Krasikov, who was released by Germany as part of this deal, he was an FSB assassin, convicted of murder in broad daylight on the streets of Germany, certainly not an equivalent of the Americans who have been released here but part of the kinds of deals sometimes you got to make right, to get -- to get your people free.
Nic Robertson, thanks so much.
Let's speak now to former CNN Moscow bureau chief Jill Dougherty, also, Susan Glasser of "The New Yorker".
Good to have you both.
Jill, I wonder if you could just put this into a broader context here. We've said on the air a number of times today, the biggest prisoner swap between the U.S. and Russia since the Cold War days, it's a significant moment.
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: There's no question. And I think the really interesting part of this is, at least from my perspective, why Putin decides to do this and why he decides to do it now. And Putin is very transactional. And we all know this has been coming for quite a long time. The deal took a long time to pull together.
And so I think number one, Krasikov. You know, he wanted Krasikov back because its kind of like the KGB thing, that promise to each other, I'll get my guys back.
And then he could also get back at least he saw some of his spies. And remember after the full-scale invasion of Ukraine, there were a lot of spies, a lot of Russian agents who are running around Europe and then they began to be arrested. So there were -- some like two in Slovenia, one in Germany, et cetera.
Then I think also political advantage. He can -- he can play it as he got some of his guys back to his own people in a very now militarized society.
Then I think we cannot eliminate the possibility that Putin actually sometimes does things for emotional reasons. And there could be something that just at this particular point, remember, obviously the American election, maybe at this point he just decided that there was something that would push him to do it right now, but it's very hard to say.
SCIUTTO: We heard Susan Glasser, President Biden speak of the value of alliances and making this deal come to be, and it is a fact that you had seven nations involved, that includes Russia, but several U.S. allies here, some of whom did not get anything in return, right? I mean, it wasn't a straight quid pro quo involved here where they had to give something up to help along the deal, to help along their allies.
[15:15:08]
Does this substantively demonstrate the value of those alliances given where at a time in an election upcoming where you have two very different options about how they view them. The Trump view of the world, and, well, the Biden-Harris view of the world.
SUSAN GLASSER, STAFF WRITER, THE NEW YORKER: Yeah. No, I think this is a really important point. I was really struck by the complexity and scale of the negotiations that led up to this deal. As we got seven different countries involved.
Also, the president United States exerting his own personal diplomacy in order to make this happen, I think that the Germans had been for months very reluctant. Remember that this was on the table and different iterations for even a couple of years. And the German said no. They didn't want somebody who had killed in broad daylight in the Tiergarten in the heart of central Berlin to release that person.
It didn't happen until Biden personally urged the German Chancellor Scholz to do so. Same thing he needed to make a phone call with the leader of Slovakia in order to close the deal. So I think you're right to underscore the alliances.
It's contrast this with Donald Trump, who actually, earlier this year bragged in a social media post that he was just going to use his one- on-one good relations with Vladimir Putin. And that he theorized that perhaps Evan Gershkovich would be released right after he Donald Trump won the election. That is obviously not going to come to pass because Biden has made it happen sooner.
SCIUTTO: I wonder as we look at Jake Sullivan, he was asked today whether he do you see any link between this deal and any potential negotiations over a deal to end the war in Ukraine.
He said the following. And, Jill, I want to get your thoughts on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SULLIVAN: We do not see a link between the hostage negotiation are detained persons negotiations and any potential diplomacy over the war in Ukraine and we see those as operating on separate tracks. One is really about the practical issue of producing this exchange. The other is a much more complex question where the Ukrainians will be in the lead and the United States will consult closely with all of our allies to support them when they are prepared to step forward and engage in those -- in that kind of diplomacy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: So that's his answer, and he's directly involved. So we should imagine take him at his word there, but is there a possibility that one track at least smooth the way for the other track?
DOUGHERTY: I do I do agree that they're different issues, there's no question. But the context of the relationship is exacerbated by Ukraine. There's no question and Russia is a different place from three years ago, at that when they did the full scale invasion, and Putin is very clear in saying he is now at war with the United States.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. So the context is different. But yes, I think Sullivan's right when, you know, if you do with individual cases that have been going on, like Paul Whelan for years.
Well, Jill and Susan, good to have you on. It's nice to be talking about some good news for once in a while, right? A good moment for the families involved here. Appreciate you joining.
We will have much more on the prisoner swaps throughout this hour, including how the Republican vice presidential nominee J.D. Vance, is attempting to redirect responsibility from this diplomatic victory to his running mate.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[15:21:46]
SCIUTTO: Welcome back.
Paul Whelan was detained at a Moscow hotel in December 2018 by Russian authorities who alleged he was involved in an intelligence operation. Former U.S. marine was then sentenced to 16 years in prison on espionage charges, charges he and the U.S. government vehemently denied.
For his release today, Whelan spent more than five years wrongfully detained in a Russian labor camp. That's how they do things.
CNN's Jennifer Hansler has covered Paul extensively. She spoke to him a dozen times while he was being held there.
I wonder you developed a relationship with him over time. You have I difficult conversations with him about how difficult the circumstances were there. How was this bearing down on him all this time?
JENNIFER HANSLER, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT PRODUCER: Well, Jim, it's rare that you get to report on good news. So today is a nice exception.
SCIUTTO: Absolutely.
HANSLER: Because every time that we spoke, it was often for him to be able to talk about how difficult of circumstances were in this Russian penal camp. He was about eight hours from Moscow. He rarely got to see anyone from the U.S. embassy because it was such a long trek. He had to endure these horrible conditions in this camp.
You describe they're being dry rot on the floor, lack of medical care, terrible food. He said he had ailments. He worked in what he described as a sweatshop and there were a number of times, Jim, where the U.S. was not able to get him out in the past, we covered these extensively. Trevor Reed in April 2022, Brittney Griner in December of 2022, in both of those swaps, the Russians refused to include Paul.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
HANSLER: So these were very heartening terrible images for him, terrible experiences for him. And he said he felt like it put a target on his back that he wasn't included in these swaps.
But I should note, Jim, in recent months, he has seemed more heartened, more optimistic about the efforts that were underway to secure his release. He said that he felt the U.S. was doing its utmost. He just wanted it to move faster because he had been there for 5.5 years.
SCIUTTO: Did you have a sense of it running out of energy or just physically being weighted down by this, even as he was more hopeful than recent months. I mean, was he worried about surviving? HANSLER: There was worry about surviving particularly after the death
of Alexei Navalny.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
HANSLER: He called me not long after that and he said that he was concerned that if this could happen to such a high profile prisoner as this Russian dissident, who the entire world had called for his release, the Russians were prepared to do it for anyone and he was really concerned about what could happen to him if he were to remain behind bars.
And I should note, Jim, you know, his family, they were tireless advocates for his release. They were constantly talking to the media. His sister Elizabeth, who we saw today next to Joe Biden at the White House, she was always here in Washington. She made dozens of trips to advocate for her brother.
And they were also concerned about the potential that even if you served out this 16 year prison sentence, that the Russians wouldn't let him go. So I haven't spoken much with the family today. The brother, David Whelan, put out his statement, but I can't imagine how overwhelming this is for them.
SCIUTTO: It must be. I'm sure you can have a great conversation with whom when he has the chance to relax a little bit on American soil.
Jennifer, thanks so much for sharing the stories.
Well, already, this diplomatic victory is colliding with the 2024 presidential race. President Biden was making calls to secure this deal. Imagine this on the very same day two weeks ago that he made the decision not to seek reelection.
[15:25:03]
Well, Republican vice presidential nominee J.D. Vance reacted to the prisoner swap today with a bit of a swipe of his own.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look I think its great news at least what little we know. We certainly want these Americans to come back home. It was ridiculous that they were in prison to begin with, but we have to ask ourselves, why are they coming home? And I think it's because bad guys all over the world recognize Donald Trumps about to be back in office, so they're cleaning house. That's a good thing. And I think its a testament to Donald Trump strength.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Well, in fact, Donald Trump had said just a few months ago that Gershkovich would be released after he was reelected president. So you're hearing a different story now, no evidence that the former president or his running mate were involved in the deal. I want to go now to UVA Center for Politics director, Larry Sabato,
for more.
Just on the politics of this and listen, this is -- this is a story about Americans and a green card holder and others who've been released from prison, where they were wrongfully detained and their families. That's the focus today, but it's happening in the midst of a presidential race and you already have folks making political hay of this how big of a win or this is it for President Biden and the Biden administration?
LARRY SABATO, DIRECTOR, UVA CENTER FOR POLITICS: It's a big win, Jim, and I agree with you, the focus ought to be on the released prisoners and the families after what they've been through.
But politically, it really does help cement Biden's legacy. I mean, this is a big one. It's the biggest since the end of the Cold War. That tells you how important it is in one sense.
But this has dragged on for so long. And of course, Donald Trump has made an issue out of it and has said repeatedly why it will happen, the release will happen even before he's sworn in.
You know, he was right about that, Jim, it did happen before he was sworn in, except he had absolutely nothing to do with it.
So this is big for Biden. He deserves a lot of credit for this and worked on it even while he was making that extremely difficult decision to step back this year. But it also helps Kamala Harris. She was involved at various points as they've already made clear.
But beyond that, anything good that happens to President Biden and to his image helps her. She is the inheritor of his legacy. This helps his legacy. It helps her being elected.
SCIUTTO: I've learned and you know this better than me, not to focus on any single event in a long race for the White House, people have short attention spans. News happens every day, it seems, even this week, multiple stories this week.
But it is certainly been a good series of events for Democrats. Kamala Harris taking over the ticket. She's having a strong campaign launch. You've had several quite public slip-ups by Trump and his running mate, including Trump yesterday, somehow questioning whether the vice president is black.
Regardless, do a series of things like that have an impact do you find in your experience on polling, on kind of the horse race numbers for a race like this?
SABATO: Absolutely. There's research on this. If it's a one-off, it's a one-day event or a two-day event, it's going to fail for the reasons you suggested. And if anything, today, we have so much news. It's hard to remember what happened last week, much less two months ago.
But when you have news that is on the same thing happening day after day after day and when it's reinforced by candidates' speeches, and television ads, it can actually last all the way to Election Day. And this is a big day. It's important.
SCIUTTO: Before we go, just based on the data you've seen so far. And again, I don't want to rest any conclusions on any data this far out from the race, but where does the race stand today?
SABATO: Kamala Harris has moved up a lot and including in some of the swing states. Now, if she moved up quickly, if you could go down quickly, we've seen this so many times, so many candidates. But I think Democrats are in a much better mood and justifiably so today than they were say a month ago.
SCIUTTO: Larry Sabato, I know we'll talk about it again. Thanks so much for joining.
SABATO: Thanks, Jim.
SCIUTTO: After the break, we're going to have new information, but right now, this is live pictures. The Russian president on the tarmac there in Moscow preparing to greet the Russian nationals who were released as part of this prisoner deals.
It's notable to see this, right? Because you had the U.S. president celebrating this deal with an event at the White House. He's going to be on the tarmac at Joint Base Andrews when those planes carrying the Americans land here later this evening.
So here you have the Russian president with quite a fair amount of pomp and circumstance here, including a red red-carpet about to greet the Russian prisoners on the other end.
[15:30:03]
So you can read this I believe as him celebrating this deal as well, which is notable given the state of the relationship between the U.S. and Russia right now.
Listen, in any prisoner swap like this, even between nations that are -- well, I think you can reasonably say hostile to each other, each side has to give up something, right? Folks, that they didn't want to release. And we know well as the prisoners walked down the steps here, to be greeted by the Russian president.
Some of these prisoners are ones who were convicted of crimes in the West, at least one of them convicted of murder. In Germany released as part of this deal, we should remind you again that seven nations were involved -- the U.S., Russia and five other nations, European nations, Norway, Germany, other U.S. allies, Slovenia, each of whom had to give up a Russian held in their territory, then convicted of crimes to gain the release of the Americans involved in this prisoner swap.
And we did mention that there were two children involved on this prisoner swap as well. I believe were seeing them were adults, eight adults in total, and two children and you're seeing them greeted now. Again, notable that the pomp and circumstance is on either side, both sides of this historic, I think we can use the historic -- the word historic comfortably here given it is the biggest prisoner swap between the U.S. and Russia since Cold War days.
Larry, it is notable to watch this play out, a rarity, right? Where you have the Russian president and the U.S. president both celebrating a deal, trying to pick out each of the prisoners here I was looking for -- for the Russian FSB agent, who was convicted of murder, Vadim Krasikov, convicted of murder in Germany, who is among those who is released here, but a remarkable moment to see the Russian president greeting them if you. Talk about a photo op to be expected and celebrated on the American side when those planes, when the plane lands at Joint Base Andrews later today, greeted by the U.S. president and vice president.
Here you have a photo op on the Russian side here, which means he, Vladimir Putin, sees political value in this. He wouldn't be there otherwise. He's attaching his name and his face and his time to this event.
SABATO: Yes, it all -- it just enhances the achieved that I think that you have both sides happy about the same thing. So, that actually helps both Biden and Harris. We'll see how that film is used. I'm sure it will be used as we go through the campaign.
SCIUTTO: We should note that Donald Trump claimed that this prisoner swap would not happen until he won the election in the fall. He said it. He tweeted it. He said it in public. In fact, this has happened before the election.
And while Biden is still president and negotiated by President Biden and his team and while we talked about photo-ops, they're taking photos right now. The prisoners exchanged and the Russian president.
Let's listen, this is the Russian president addressing those released.
(RUSSIAN PRESIDENT VLADIMIR PUTIN SPEAKING RUSSIAN)
SCIUTTO: We should note, a couple you're seeing there holding those flowers with their children, Artem Dultsev and Anna Dultseva, they are Russian couple, they were arrested in Slovenia in 2022 on espionage charges.
They have two children and it's there to children there were them there. Just so you know why the children revolve, the children were not the prisoners. It was their parents who were there prisoners in Slovenia and we should note.
One detail we learned today is that President Biden upon the very same day within hours of when he refused from the presidential race two weeks ago, he called Slovenia to get Slovenia to agree to its piece of the deal which was to release -- was to release these two that you see there carrying those flowers, shows the effort that was made even in the midst of withdrawing from the race.
[15:35:04]
Quite a moment today.
Tensions in the Middle East remain on a knife's edge as Hamas and Hezbollah bury two key leaders today.
CNN is learning new details about the assassination of Ismail Haniyeh, the longtime Hamas political leader killed in Tehran, Iran, on Wednesday. A source tells CNN and he was killed by an explosive device detonated remotely, which had been planted in his guest room two months earlier.
Israel is still not confirmed or denied any involvement in that assassination. But today, it did confirm it and killed Hamas's military chief in Gaza in a strike there three weeks ago. The IDF said it had received new intelligence to confirm the death of Mohammed Deif.
CNN Jerusalem correspondent, Jeremy Diamond, he is in Haifa today.
Tell us more details about this explosive device planted in Tehran in a particular guest house two months ago. How did they have the foresight to do this?
JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jim, this was really a remarkable operation from various points of view and you know, yesterday, we were hearing reports from Iranian state media as well as Hamas that it was a rocket fired from outside of this building, perhaps from a drone, perhaps from somewhere else that hit that building and killed Haniyeh.
But what we've learned is that this was a far more complex, far more clandestine operation that actually took out Ismail Haniyeh inside this guest house. Two months before he was staying in this guest house, we understand that a bomb was planted inside that guest house covertly, staying hidden there for two months until Haniyeh was confirmed to be inside his bedroom in that guest house, and then and only then was that bomb remotely detonated, killing not only Haniyeh, but his bodyguard as well.
We know that Israel has yet to confirm or deny that they were behind this operation. They likely never will. That is pretty much standard operating procedure for them, but Hamas-Iranian media have said that Israel was behind this assassination, and I should note that my source on this told me that Israeli officials briefed U.S. officials yesterday on this operation only once it had been completed.
Now, another interesting aspect of this is the fact that this guest house where Haniyeh was staying, he was known to have stayed in this guest house previously, and that seems to be how Israeli agents perhaps knew that this was the place to plant this bomb, but it speaks of course to a remarkable, remarkable breach of security for the IRGC, something very embarrassing for them that they're going to have to ask -- answer a lot of questions about it.
And obviously, this whole development has put this entire region on edge as the Iranian supreme leader vows retaliation and Israel braces for exactly that.
SCIUTTO: No question. The region -- region bracing.
Jeremy Diamond, thanks so much.
Here to discuss is Andrew Miller, former deputy assistant secretary of state for Israeli Palestinian affairs.
Andrew, good to have you.
First, I want to talk about this operation into Tehran, which we should note, Israel is still not commented pro or con on whether it was involved, but the details of this and explosive device planted in Tehran two months ago in a room, they believed Haniyeh would stay, and lo and behold, he is, and now he's dead. It's a clear breach of Iranian security, and by the way, one in a series, right, if you look at other assassinations carried out there on Iranian soil, how does this happen?
ANDREW MILLER, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR ISRAELI- PALESTINIAN AFFAIRS: I mean, it really is remarkable that such a high level official would be would be targeted in particular of foreign dignitary or hasn't hit the column of dignitary, a foreign terrorist visiting Iran. Past assassinations have been primarily against the Iranian officials often nuclear scientists, and others who would be more difficult to protect.
But it was clear that Haniyeh would have a lot of attention and the inability of the Iranian security services to provide adequate protection for him at a time when they knew who the threat would be particularly high is a major embarrassment for the Islamic republic and could very well play into exaggerating or increasing the nature of the response to try to deliver a stronger blow.
SCIUTTO: That was going to be my next question here because it's -- and by the way, this is the dynamic we deal with so often, right? Each side has repeatedly demonstrates strength and arguably more than they demonstrated last time. But Iran's last big attack, that series of barrage of missiles and drones that it sent towards Israel was seen by many as a failure in that the vast majority of them were shot down long before they reached Israeli territory.
[15:40:00]
Do those two things together, this killing -- the lack of success of that attack from the Iranian point of view lead them to say, we got to demonstrate our power even more so?
MILLER: I do think that not only the assassination of Haniyeh, but the killing of Shukr in Lebanon, the Hezbollah leader, when combined we creates a strong imperative for Iran and its proxies in the region to respond in a very strong fashion.
What we had after the April exchange was a situation where both Israel and Iran could claim they had achieved deterrence, which could have provided a stable equilibrium, hopefully to protect against the risk of a regional war. By conducting this strike in Tehran, whether intentionally or not, Israel has upset that delicate balance. And now in order to try to return to the equilibrium, were caught in this action-reaction cycle. And its always very difficult to identify where the off-ramp is.
And I imagine that my colleagues and the administration are working very aggressively both to deter Iranian attacks, to defend against them, to prevent Israel from suffering harm, but also to restrain the Israelis in terms of any response to an attack on Israeli soil, to try to bring this to an end as soon as possible. The longer this goes on, the greater the risks that this becomes a full-fledged conflagration.
SCIUTTO: Yeah, and always add difficulty of knowing what the other side's red line is, right? There can be misinterpretation.
Andrew Miller, thanks so much.
MILLER: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: And we'll be right back with much more.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCIUTTO: Welcome back.
Still on our top story, an historic prisoner swap between the U.S. and Russia.
[15:45:00]
Joining me again, CNN senior diplomatic editor Nic Robertson.
And we could throw these pictures back up on the air again, but to see just moments ago, the Russian president greeting those returning Russian prisoners, and there's the hug of the FSB assassin, convicted murderer, one of the first down the down the stairs there quite a moment of. Poppins, pomp and circumstance for the Russian presidents celebrating this release as a TV moment for him, are you surprised?
ROBERTSON: Yeah. I mean, we've all been asking ourselves a question today. What exactly does Putin get out of this? How much does he need this? Does he need a popularity bump in the polls because the polls don't matter to him, because he gets to be president until 2036.
But clearly, this is important to him. I mean, we -- we can make light of it, but it is important to him. It is important domestically. It's out on domestic TV.
Him actually waiting there for them to come down the steps, waiting for the door to open on the plane, walking around, directing people before this hug, this is Ana Dultsev, rather, a spy -- a Russian spy and that's her husband there, and that's their children released from Slovenia. She's almost in tears it appears that she comes down and the steps.
And before this, Putin have been sort of ambling along the red carpet at one point nonchalantly looking at his fingernails as if all the time doesn't matter to me, but it -- but it's clear, this is an important moment for him and then he gives a speech after this greeting on the tarmac, they walk inside. Then it gives, gives a speech and an even one of them sort of tries to applaud Putin in there.
I guess that's sort of what he was -- it's often what happens when Putin speaks, people were trying to try to applaud. We couldn't hear precisely what he was -- what he was saying to them made. No doubt we'll find out later.
But it's a moment that's important for and that's what Russian people are going to see on their TV screens. And we'll have to listen to how they explain it. Yeah.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. You know, to your point. He was waiting for them, which is, you know, something that Vladimir Putin normally does. He makes other world leaders wait so much famously --
ROBERTSON: For hours, for hours.
SCIUTTO: For hours, as a kind of power. So he was -- he was early at the bottom of that -- bottom of those stairs outside the plane there.
It is -- I wonder from the Russian public's view here -- listen, here in America, we're celebrating the release of Americans who are government says were wrongfully detained in Russia. And the evidence supports that. Does the Russian public believed that these Russians were wrongfully detained in the West?
ROBERTSON: That's what there'll be that's what they'll be told. I mean, absolutely.
They -- you know, when you listen to what we are hearing from Russian outlets, they are trying to play this equivalent game, the FSB, the Russian intelligence service, what the KGB became. They have said they have thanked all the other services, intelligence services, who've been involved in brokering this.
They're trying to set this up as an equivalence, when there is not equivalence. These were put journalists and political prisoners that Putin had thrown in jail on trumped up charges. In return, he gets spies, murderers and other ne'er-do-wells who've been convicted in transparent Western courts.
SCIUTTO: And by the way, one of those released, Kara-Murza, I mean, he's Russian national, he's got a U.S. green card. But he was a Russian dissident, right, freed by the efforts of the American government. Talk about flipping the script.
Nic Robertson, thanks so much.
While detaining journalists and dissidents in Russia is nothing new -- thankfully, these three released today in addition to 13 other people held in Russia, are now free.
Joining me now is Clayton Weimers. He's the U.S. executive director of the organization Reporters Without Borders.
And thanks so much for joining us today.
It has to be a happy day for you. You and your organization have lobbied long and hard for the release of folks like Evan Gershkovich. What's your reaction to that?
CLAYTON WEIMERS, REPORTERS WITHOUT BORDERS: Well, just as you said, we were thrilled to get this news this morning that not just Evan Gershkovich, but the another American reporter, Alsu Kurmasheva, was also released from Russian prison after nine grueling months and these are the rare moments that we do this work for it. So we have to celebrate them when they come.
SCIUTTO: No question. She's the one on the right in that photo, we were just showing there, you know, the sad fact of this, right. Is that this hostage, some call it hostage diplomacy you might more correctly call it brinksmanship, but Russia and to a large degree, China and Iran do a similar thing. They pick people up on trumped up or manufacturer charges and then use them as bargaining chips -- trade capital to get their people who almost always our folks actually guilty of or convicted of crimes like we saw today.
Are you worried at all that when you see something like this that it's just a matter of time before the next journalist has picked up?
WEIMERS: But you're absolutely correct to identify this fundamental asymmetry at work here, the United States is not going around arbitrarily arresting Russian journalists its in the hopes that he can one day dangle them for a prisoner exchange in the futures some time.
And you're right to point out that in order to secure the release of journalists and human rights activists and civil society leaders, various governments around the world had to release genuine criminals, assassins and spies and arms traffickers. It -- it is really time for democratic governments to come together and figuring out how to impose greater costs on the bad actors of the world, the Russias of the world, these autocratic regimes, were very comfortable to take hostages in order to secure the release of their citizens who are rightfully in prison elsewhere.
That said, you know, today, is about celebrating that two great journalists are going home to their families after months in Russian detention, which is a grueling ordeal. So we have to just take them one step at a time. And for now, we're just very grateful that they've been released.
SCIUTTO: No question. There are some good days and you got to celebrate those days.
Clayton Weimers, thanks so much for joining us.
WEIMERS: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Well, another story we've been following closely for some time, at least 488 Ukrainian athletes and trainers have been killed since the start of Russia's invasion of Ukraine in 2022, this according to a sports ministry spokesman. Ukraine sent a notably smaller team of 140 athletes to compete in this year's Olympic Games. But against the toughest odds, and the war at home, Ukrainians are bringing back medals and hope.
Earlier today, Serhiy Kulish won silver in the 50-meter rifle, men's finals, snagging Ukraine's second medal of the Paris Games. First medal came Monday when Olga Kharlan dropped to her knees in tears after winning bronze in the women's individual fencing final. The fencer dedicated her metal to all the Ukrainian athletes killed by Russia since its invasion of Ukraine, well, nearly 2-1/2 years ago.
Here to discuss what this year's Olympics means for Ukraine is Ukraine sports minister, Matvii Bidnyi.
Listen, it is a big moment to compete on the world stage for any country in any athlete prefer a country at war, at home, defending itself that has suffered what it has suffered through -- it must be a truly, truly meaningful effort there.
MATVII BIDNYI, UKRAINE SPORTS MINISTER: Yes, yes. I mean, unfold for us, its very important for us to be here because two-and-a-half year ago, that a lot of people don't give a chance for Ukraine, for Ukrainian country, for Ukraine independence, for -- and now, again, it's a smaller team in now our history, but it's difficult to this -- most difficult time in our recent history, and it's very important that our team under our flag here and it's a big win for us.
And very important that flag of terrorist state, Russia, is absolutely banned here. There are no sportsmen there, some neutral athletes. And I think it's our big win, too.
And it's very important and it's very symbolical here to -- for us to be here and to show the world our will to win. And our a country like a strong, resilient and a good partner as people who can fight for our common values in some time, even die for these values.
SCIUTTO: Yeah. You've lost so many athletes as we noted, close to 500 of them since the start of the war. Are those athletes on the minds, those fallen athletes on the battlefield on the minds I imagine of the athletes competing in Paris?
BIDNYI: Yeah, we -- it's -- all our athletes, it's a big hero. You know, it's a very challenging situation for any fast because all of us ask themselves, where is my place on this war? Maybe I should take a gun and go to the battlefields.
[15:55:02]
Or maybe I can do something for -- more efficient for my country. And all of our sportsmen, all of our athletes now, is a hero who make our victory closer, to demonstrate our desire to just peace.
SCIUTTO: What is your goal before you leave the Olympics now?
BIDNYI: To show Ukraine as a strong, resilient country, as a -- as a strong partner and to show our country, show Ukraine as a country with a good culture, with good sport, with a good tradition but in the context of the war, because every day regular life connected with big struggle, and we were all should understand, the war is closer than it seems for all of us.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
BIDNYI: It's very important to understand and recognize because -- because, you know, even in nightmare, a few year -- few years ago, we can't even believe that we will woke up under the explosion of Russian rockets. We grabbed our kids you go into the bomb shelter. So we should recognize it.
SCIUTTO: Well, Matvii Bidnyi, I know that there must be a tremendous amount of emotion as well.
We wish you, we wish the Ukrainian team the best and will be rooting for them in Paris.
BIDNYI: Thank you. Thank you. Support Ukraine.
SCIUTTO: Well, thanks too much -- so much to all of you for joining me today on quite another busy news day. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.
"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.
