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Harris and Trump Set to Face Off in High-Stakes Debate; Officials: At Least 40 Dead After Israeli Strikes in Safe Zone; Pope Celebrates Mass Amid Huge Crowd in East Timor. Aired 4:00-4:30a ET

Aired September 10, 2024 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN NEWSROOM with Max Foster and Christina Macfarlane.

CHRISTINA MACFARLANE, CNN ANCHOR: Hello and a very warm welcome to our viewers joining us from the United States and all around the world. I'm Christina Macfarlane. It's Tuesday, September 10th, 9 a.m. here in London, 4 a.m. in Philadelphia where Vice President Kamala Harris and former President Donald Trump will meet face to face for the first time later today when the two take to the debate stage in what has the potential to be an election-defining moment.

The Democratic presidential nominee arrived in Philadelphia on the eve of the debate after days of preparation for the high-stakes showdown. Sources say the Harris campaign has been preparing her for possible insults and name-calling from Trump, while Trump's team is previewing attack lines and even claiming that Harris has really been the one in charge of the country, not Biden.

The debate will take place in the key battleground state of Pennsylvania, which the candidates are hoping to sway voters who are still undecided. Harris and Trump have both been talking about what they expect to come from the confrontation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE U.S. (D) AND U.S. PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: He plays with this really old and tired playbook, right, where he, there's no floor for him in terms of how low he will go, and we should be prepared for that. He tends to fight for himself, not for the American people, and I think that's going to come out during the course of the debate.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Oh, they're waiting for the debate. You know, if I destroy her in the debate, they'll say, Trump suffered a humiliating defeat tonight, no matter what.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACFARLANE: Well, CNN's Jeff Zeleny has more now from Philadelphia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have spent months talking about one another.

TRUMP: If comrade Kamala Harris gets four more years, you will be living a full blown banana republic.

HARRIS: If you got something to say, say it to my face.

ZELENY (voice-over): On Tuesday night, they will talk to one another in a duel seen around the world. But what's one of the most important audiences here in Pennsylvania.

GINA OLD, UNDECIDED PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: And I don't know if all really know until it's time to actually vote.

ZELENY (voice-over): This will be Trump's seventh debate, more than any nominee in history. Harris and her team have studied all of the previous six, three with Hillary Clinton.

TRUMP: No puppet, no puppet.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: It's pretty clear --

TRUMP: You're the puppet.

ZELENY (voice-over): And three with Joe Biden.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Would you shut up, man?

ZELENY (voice-over): Which offer lessons for both sides.

For Harris, it's a marquee moment to show Americans she is ready to assume the presidency, a question very much on the minds of voters in pivotal Bucks County, just outside Philadelphia, where signs of support for all sides are inescapable.

OLD: By nature I am a Republican, always voted Republican. Not sure this year.

JOHN BILLIE, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER FOR TRUMP: I'm going to go with Trump regardless. I don't know enough about Kamala and big deals with the border and inflation is my main thing.

MARY SUE FRANK, PENNSYLVANIA VOTER: My hope is that they're going to tell us what they're going to do, not what the other person has done wrong.

ZELENY (voice-over): Pennsylvania is at the center of the presidential race with Harris, Trump and their allies spending more than any other battleground, $82 million from Democrats, $74 million from Republicans, as a fight to define them vice president dominates the airwaves.

HARRIS: It's a very different vision than Donald Trump's. UNIDENTIFIED MALE, AD NARRATOR: Dangerously liberal. Kamala Harris is no laughing matter.

ZELENY (voice-over): Harris has spent the last five days in Pittsburgh preparing for the debate.

HARRIS: Look, it's time to turn the page on the divisiveness. It's time to bring our country together. Chart a new way forward.

ZELENY (voice-over): In a weekend rally in Wisconsin, Trump argued, he is the true candidate of change.

TRUMP: Kamala Harris and the communist left have unleashed a brutal plague of bloodshed crime, chaos, misery, and death upon our land and it's only going to get worse.

ZELENY (voice-over): That rhetoric raises the question of what tone Trump intends to strike and whether it will be sexist, as he often was against Clinton in 2016.

TRUMP: She doesn't have the look. She doesn't have the stamina.

ZELENY (voice-over): Or seize upon policies of the Biden/Harris administration as he did in June.

TRUMP: We had the safest border in history. Now we have the worst border in history.

ZELENY (voice-over): Trump has been familiarizing himself with old Harris debates, too.

HARRIS: Mr. Vice President, I'm speaking.

MIKE PENCE, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: Well --

[04:05:00]

HARRIS: I'm speaking. If you don't mind letting me finish, we can then have a conversation. OK?

PENCE: Please.

HARRIS: OK.

ZELENY (voice-over): Those stinging moments from a former prosecutor now trying to make the case that she can turn the page to the presidency.

ZELENY: When Harris and Trump come together on that debate stage, it will be the first meeting that they've had. And that is because Donald Trump did not attend the inauguration in January 2020, when Harris, of course, was sworn in as vice president.

That is why they have never met before. But they certainly have been sparring at long distance, and they will come together at close range on Tuesday night. There is no question this is the most important moment so far in their brief presidential campaign.

Jeff Zeleny, CNN, Philadelphia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MACFARLANE: Joining me now from Washington to discuss this is Jacob Rubashkin, deputy editor for Inside Elections. Jacob, thank you so much for joining me. We know that both candidates at this moment have been deep in their debate bunkers, waiting for this moment.

For Donald Trump, of course, it's going to be an opportunity to turn the page on what has been a very rough summer for he and his campaign. But for Kamala Harris, well, this is going to be the biggest moment of her political career. So I guess I'll open by just asking, what does each candidate need to do to win tonight?

JACOB RUBASHKIN, DEPUTY EDITOR, INSIDE ELECTIONS: Well, good morning, Christina. Both candidates have a big task in front of them at this debate in Pennsylvania tonight. Look, for Harris, this is a really pivotal moment in the campaign.

She is still new to the campaign trail, really only taking over the reins of the Democratic Party a couple of weeks ago. She has to introduce herself to a broad swath of the American people. She got that homecoming for Democrats at the Democratic National Convention last month.

But those are partisan affairs. The debate will be her first, best, and potentially last opportunity to speak to upwards of 60, 70, 80 million voters who are undecided, who are more moderate, who are less partisan than the DNC audience, and set the terms of that introduction for herself rather than letting Trump define her instead.

For the former president, he's got to show that he's still up to the task. He has had a rough couple of weeks since Joe Biden dropped out and Kamala Harris replaced him at the top of the ticket. He's got to show that he can still control the narrative. This has been the longest stretch of the campaign pretty much since he came down that escalator in 2015, where he has not been the center of attention. And that's an uncomfortable place for him. So look for him to try and seize the spotlight back tonight in Pennsylvania.

MACFARLANE: And much, as we know, has been made of Kamala Harris's prosecutor skills. She's known as a tough questioner or has been in the Senate. But we know, of course, tonight that the mics will be closed for this debate, not open.

So how do you think Kamala Harris will deal with the fact-checking of Donald Trump in real time or even trying to rein him in, given the fact that she won't be able to retaliate in the moment?

RUBASHKIN: I think that Vice President Harris will find a way to take it to Trump to challenge him directly early and often. This was something we didn't see in that first debate in June between Trump and Joe Biden. President Biden was unable to prosecute any sort of case against Trump, even when he was handed layups, easy opportunities to state attack lines against Trump to bring up issues like abortion. He just wasn't able to direct the attention in the way that I think a lot of his party wanted him to do.

So by virtue of simply being 20 years younger, I think Harris is going to have an easier time than Biden did, despite the fact that those mics will be off when they're not supposed to be speaking.

But the other thing I think is that these debates can be very free- flowing. And regardless of whether the mics are off or not, I think both candidates are not going to feel like they have to rein themselves in if they get frustrated or they want to make their case to the American people. And ultimately, it'll be up to the moderators to really decide whether it devolves or not.

MACFARLANE: Well, Trump will feel he won't want to be reined in, but his team might feel otherwise. I mean, they are desperate for him to stick to talking about policy and not veer into sort of rambling, incoherent moments. Do you think he's going to be able to control that impulse to stick to the policy?

RUBASHKIN: Look, as Jeff said, this is now, Trump has done this for more than a half dozen times at a half dozen presidential debates over the course of three general elections. He did all those primary debates back in 2015 and 2016 as well. This is a familiar story.

We always hear ahead of time that Trump's handlers, his staffers, hope that he can remain disciplined, that he can remain focused on the policy and steer away from the personal attacks. And every debate for the first 15 or 20 minutes, maybe even a half an hour, he's able to do that.

[04:10:00]

He shows up. He's more subdued. He tries to hit his notes. And eventually, he is unable to resist the opportunity to go after his opponent when they're standing there right in front of him.

This is the first time that the two of them are going to meet. I think it's going to be a very combustible situation. And Trump runs the risk of getting knocked off course, especially because Harris is most likely going to try to goad him into getting off course, potentially even saying something that he wishes he didn't say.

MACFARLANE: It's going to be a fascinating contest, isn't it? And a pivotal moment in American politics. So thank you so much for your thoughts for now, Jacob. Hopefully, we'll get them again after the debate has happened. Thanks a lot.

RUBASHKIN: Thanks.

MACFARLANE: And be sure to tune in for our special coverage of the ABC News presidential debate simulcast here on CNN. It will air tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern time in the U.S. That's 9 a.m. Wednesday in Hong Kong and 2 in the morning here in London.

Turning now to Gaza, where officials say at least 40 people are dead after an Israeli airstrike on an area which was supposed to be a safe zone for displaced Palestinians. A desperate search for survivors is underway, but Gaza civil defense says crews are facing great difficulty in retrieving victims due to the lack of resources. Israel says it was striking Hamas terrorists operating a command center embedded in the humanitarian zone, and it took steps to prevent harm to civilians.

But a Gaza civil defense spokesperson says there was no advance warning of the strike. Hamas denies its fighters were present in the area.

For more, let's go to CNN's Paula Hancocks, who's tracking developments. And Paula, it's very difficult to verify Israel's claim that it took steps to prevent harm to civilians. But what more do we know about the circumstances of the attack and the rescue effort underway right now?

PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Christina, we understand that there is still a search and rescue operation by the Gaza civil defense. They have said that it is very difficult because they don't have the heavy equipment necessary for this kind of operation. It's very sandy ground.

We know that there were tents that were set up in that area, a humanitarian zone, it was called by the Israeli military, where many thousands of Palestinians had moved to after they were evacuated from other areas.

Now, what we're hearing from the ground, from the Palestinian side, is that there were some 200 tents believed to be in that particular area, and at least 20 of them have completely disappeared. We're hearing from Gaza civil defense that eyewitnesses said there were around five strikes and three large craters have been left. They're desperately trying to see if they can find any more survivors.

We don't have any kind of breakdown on potential militants versus civilians, but what we're hearing from the Israeli side is that Hamas had a command and control center, which was embedded in the midst of this humanitarian zone. We've just had another statement from the military saying that three senior Hamas operatives were killed in this operation, or at least they were the ones being targeted, including the head of Hamas's aerial operations, according to the Israeli military, saying that they all had direct involvement in directing the October 7th attacks against Israel.

They also say that Hamas has been embedding itself in the humanitarian zone and using civilians as human shields, something we have heard persistently from the Israeli side.

It isn't the first time that we've seen this kind of strike against Hamas targets that Israel say are within a humanitarian zone. In fact, just in mid-July, there was a targeted attack against Mohammed Deif, who was a senior military commander who Israel claims did die in that particular strike, but more than 90 Palestinians also died.

It is an area that is filled with tents. It is unsanitary. There is limited food, water, humanitarian aid. It has been criticized by many humanitarian aid groups as not being suitable as an area for evacuees and for those displaced Palestinians in Gaza to be moved to.

But once again, we see that some civilians within that area have also been lost their lives or been injured because of this strike. We understand at this point -- and these are figures coming from the Gaza civil defense -- more than 40 killed, more than 60 injured, but of course the health infrastructure in Gaza has been decimated.

So for those more than 60 injured, it is a very difficult time at the moment as well.

[04:15:00]

We have a CNN photojournalist on the ground. We are waiting for more images and for more information as it comes.

But from the Israeli side, they say that it was a necessary target, that it was three senior Hamas operatives that they targeted. They did say that they took steps to mitigate civilian harm, including precise munitions and aerial surveillance -- Christina.

MACFARLANE: All right. Paula Hancocks will of course bring you those details as we get them with our camera person on the ground. But for now, Paula, thanks very much.

Joining me now from the humanitarian zone in central Gaza is Sam Rose, Senior Deputy Director of U.N. Affairs in the Enclave. Sam, thank you for joining us.

We were just hearing from Paula there about the damage that has been wrought by this attack. 200 tents, 40 killed, 60 injured. What is your understanding at the moment of the situation in this camp, the al- Mawasi camp, and how many people have in fact been injured and killed?

SAM ROSE, SENIOR DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF UNRWA AFFAIRS IN GAZA: Absolutely. Thanks for having me on. What we're seeing -- we're hearing the same devastating, horrifying reports as you are.

We're seeing the footage. We've not been able to confirm it with our own eyes. But we believe that yet again, this was another attack on an area that civilians had been ordered to evacuate to and where they would be safe. So absolutely horrifying incident based on what we're seeing from the footage that's coming through and what we're hearing from colleagues on the ground.

And if you try and picture the area, these are the most crowded surroundings you could imagine. There's barely room to walk in between tents that are crowded onto beaches. It was late at night. Colleagues heard what they believe were the strikes and just absolutely devastating.

No way whatsoever that the civilians in these areas were able to protect themselves from what yet again was a completely unannounced attack in an area that civilians had been ordered to evacuate to for their own safety. Absolutely devastating, unfortunately. MACFARLANE: Yes. So as far as you're aware, there was no forewarning of this attack from your colleagues who were close to the area that that that came under attack?

ROSE: Not that we're aware of. And I mean, and it wouldn't be the first time that there hasn't been a warning. Can't confirm it absolutely. But no, certainly not. Not that we're aware of. And this is, as I say, just the latest in a series of incidents that are becoming so frequent, they've become normal.

But they're anything but normal for the people in these areas. Half the population of Gaza is under 18. Some of the people in those camps were precisely the same children who were being vaccinated by their parents just a couple of days ago.

They go home and then all of a sudden hell breaks loose yet again. Absolutely devastating what's happened.

MACFARLANE: And as Paula was saying, you know, this is not the first time a safe zone has been hit. It's not the first time the al-Mawasi camp has been hit. How many more humanitarian so-called safe zones are there for people to evacuate to? And how functional, how important was this particular camp that got hit?

ROSE: I mean, we should dispel ourselves of the notion of a safe zone, as we've seen through this incident and previous incidents. Nowhere is safe for anyone right now in Gaza. There is about 85 percent of the Gaza Strip that is not currently subject to evacuation orders.

So this is a small, overcrowded parcel of land on the beach in sand dunes with no infrastructure, very limited availability to provide services, protect families from the elements, people living in tents under plastic sheets that, from what we can hear, just disappeared beneath the ground. Either they were hit directly or those in the surrounding areas just got swallowed up by the bomb damage.

MACFARLANE: The pursuit of Hamas commanders has been very deadly for Palestinians. And I just wonder what you make of the claim here that Hamas had an operational center in the middle or based in and around this humanitarian camp.

Do you know that to be true? And what do you make of the kind of repetitive attacks to root out Hamas leaders among humanitarian areas?

ROSE: I mean, obviously, I can't confirm or deny this specific incident. We're a humanitarian organization. We don't get involved.

[04:20:00]

What I can say is perhaps three things. One is that there are rules of war, rules around how wars are prosecuted in relation to principles of distinction between civilian character of certain areas and military character of certain areas. And we call on both sides and all parties to the conflict to adhere to those principles.

There are also principles of proportion and distinct proportionality and precaution that require that all efforts be taken to reduce, to minimize to an absolute minimum any civilian loss of life. It would appear in this incident that yet again, those principles have not been adhered to. And yet again, we call for a full investigation into what happened.

And thirdly, the only way this will come to an end is if there is a ceasefire, a cessation, complete cessation of hostilities, release of hostages and people can start rebuilding. Otherwise, there will be more and more and more of these incidents.

And what can we say? What more can we do except to say that this really has to come to an end?

MACFARLANE: On Monday, your U.N. Secretary General, Antonio Guterres, said that the level of suffering in Gaza is incomparable to anything he's ever seen. Have you ever seen this level of death and destruction? And what is the feeling among the Palestinian people at this point where there apparently seems to be no end in sight, no ceasefire yet on the horizon?

ROSE: Yes, look, people here feel abandoned by the world that's watching this play out on a daily basis. They feel humiliated and helpless through what they're being forced to endure on a daily basis. They carry on as best that they can.

But this is no way for anyone to live. There are a few parallels in recent history in terms of the extent and the pace of killing, the pace of destruction, the pace of evacuation and displacement that we've seen in Gaza over the past 12 months. And sadly, it's just continuing.

Certainly, as UNRWA, we have never seen anything like it. But more importantly and more devastating is that the population on the ground have had to go through this and they're dealing with the immediate consequences, you know, trying to secure a safe place to sleep, water to wash, food to eat. But they've also got the longer term consequences in terms of their families, communities, society that has been ripped apart, people with life changing injuries, with life changing mental health consequences.

And they have nowhere to live and they're losing hope that the world just seems unable or unwilling to do anything about it. And that's the questions and these are the issues that are being put to us on a daily basis. And sadly, we're running out of answers.

MACFARLANE: And running out of time too, it seems. Sam Rose, we really appreciate you joining us, giving us your thoughts on this today. Thank you.

All right, still to come, hundreds of thousands have gathered for mass with Pope Francis and East Timor will have the latest on his tour in Southeast Asia after the break.

And we are just about an hour away from the next chance for SpaceX to launch its Polaris Dawn mission. We'll explain what caused the latest delay just ahead. [04:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MACFARLANE: Welcome back. Right now Pope Francis is celebrating mass in East Timor with a massive crowd in attendance. More than half the population of the small country is estimated to be there.

It's the point of second day in East Timor. He spent the morning in meetings with church officials, but made time to visit a school for children with disabilities. The Pope also called on government leaders to protect children from abuse.

CNN's Kristie Lu Stout is joining me now. And Kristie, these I believe are live images we're seeing of this mass. And it's a huge moment, isn't it, for a Catholic nation? I believe it's something like 93 percent of this nation are Catholics. And this is over half the population at this mass.

KRISTIE LU STOUT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You're right. This is a very huge moment, Christina. Right now in Dili, the capital of East Timor, Pope Francis is presiding over this open-air mass that is drawing an estimated 600,000 people. This is according to the Vatican.

And the scene, as you take in the live pictures on your screen right now, and you look at the faithful who have gathered there, it just looks like a sea of yellow and white. It's a sea of yellow and white umbrellas as the faithful brave the sweltering heat there in East Timor.

East Timor is a deeply Catholic nation. Some 97 percent of its population identifies as Catholic. That is the highest proportion outside of Vatican City.

And as you can see, these live images on your screen, they are out en masse in East Timor to celebrate the Pope and his message. Earlier this morning in East Timor, Pope Francis visited children with disabilities. He also met with religious leaders in the country.

And when he arrived at the cathedral for that meeting earlier in the day, he was greeted by throngs of well-wishers who filled the streets and chanted, Long live Pope Francis.

Now, East Timor has very deep ties to the church, which has been influential in its brutal struggle and fight for independence. And that deep connection is underscored at this very moment, where we have an estimated 600,000 people out to take part in this open-air mass in Dili. Back to you.

MACFARLANE: And I believe, Christy, it is a nation that has been rocked by triumph, but also by tragedy.

[04:30:00]

Talk to us a little bit more about the church's connection to the country in that sense. STOUT: Absolutely. Look, the church has very deep links to East Timor and its decades-long struggle for independence, but that has been overshadowed by accusations of clerical sexual abuse.

In fact, two years ago, the Vatican said it secretly disciplined an East Timor bishop and Nobel Peace Prize winner, Carlos Ximenes Belo, after Belo was accused of sexually abusing boys in East Timor decades before.

And speaking yesterday and Monday in Dili, Pope Francis did not directly address the scandal, but instead he issued a call to, quote, do everything possible to prevent such abuse. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE FRANCIS (through translator): We shall not forget those children and adolescents that have their dignity violated. This phenomenon is happening across the world. In response, we are all called to do everything possible to prevent every kind of abuse and guarantee a peaceful growth for all young people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STOUT: Now, also hanging over this visit is the cost. There has been criticism about the $12 million paid for this visit. East Timor is one of the poorest countries in Asia and the world. According to the World Bank, some 47 percent of children in the country are stunted because of malnutrition.

Now, the Pope, on Monday, he did address these economic challenges, saying that there was a need for collective and wide-ranging action. This has been a testing and challenging trip for Pope Francis. This has been testing his fortitude and his physical strength.

Just a reminder, he is 87 years old, and he has been on this 12-day epic four-nation tour across Asia. And today, at this very moment, he has been leading hundreds of thousands of faithful, an estimated 600,000, in a vast open-air mass in Dili, East Timor, on this sweltering day.

Back to you.

MACFARLANE: Yes, it's a stunning sight and plenty more to come on this South Asia tour, Southeast Asia tour. Kristie Lu Stout from Hong Kong, thank you.

END