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Georgia Prosecutor Testifies Before Congress; Judge Rules Georgia Officials Cannot Delay Election Certification. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired October 15, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: I'm sure they have nice accommodations in there, one would hope.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN HOST: Yes.

BROWN: But, yes, I mean, it's pandamonium in D.C. whenever you get the pandas.

ACOSTA: There you go.

BROWN: And the best is when they had the baby pandas. I remember when I was in local news, and that we would go all out on that, and they would be as tiny as a stick of butter.

ACOSTA: Totally.

BROWN: And it's just -- it's very exciting for us in Washington.

ACOSTA: And we were always so worried whether the little pandas would make it after they were born and so on.

BROWN: Yes. Yes.

ACOSTA: So all of that drama is back. I feel like this is a Ron Burgundy segment. We're on panda watch here. But...

BROWN: We are on panda watch.

ACOSTA: ... it is an exciting moment for D.C.

BROWN: Pandamonium was not in my -- what I thought I would be saying today, but there you go.

ACOSTA: That's OK.

BROWN: Cheesy as it gets, Jim.

ACOSTA: Pandas with Pam.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Pandas with Pam. Oh, my God.

ACOSTA: We will make it a running segment.

BROWN: Off to a great start.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: I will take it from here, Ron. No, I'm kidding.

ACOSTA: That's good. You got it. Stay classy.

BROWN: Thanks, Jim.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: And good morning to everyone. You are live in the CNN NEWS CENTRAL. I'm Pamela Brown in Washington.

We actually have a lot of news to get to beyond the pandas.

And we begin this hour with breaking news from Georgia. A judge issued a major ruling this morning on the first day of early voting in the important battleground state. The ruling says that county election officials in Georgia cannot delay or decline to certify election results.

CNN's Nick Valencia is in Atlanta for us.

So, Nick, this ruling is significant and a blow to some of the conservatives pushing to have more autonomy over the election results.

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And we were anticipating this ruling. Still waiting on another big one related to certification, but Judge Robert McBurney with the Fulton County Superior Court sending a very clear message that certification is mandatory.

This lawsuit stemming from one from Julie Adams. She is a Fulton County board of elections worker or she's on the Board of Elections, and she may news this past spring by refusing to certify the presidential primary results.

But Judge McBurney sending that message in his ruling, saying -- quote -- "If election superintendents were, as plaintiff urges, free to play investigator, prosecutor, jury and judge, and so because of a unilateral determination of error or fraud refused to certify election results, Georgia voters would be silenced. Our Constitution and our election code do not allow for that to happen."

I mentioned that other certification ruling we're anticipating. Democrats had sued the state over what they call the certification rule, which they said empowers potentially rogue county elections officials to refuse from certifying results. They say that could cascade into a bigger problem that we would potentially not know who won the 2024 election if it comes down to Georgia, as it was consequential in the 2020 election. Here behind me, you see the energy here related to the first day of

early voting. We just checked in with the secretary of state's office. They said they're sitting at 72,000 check-ins so it's record-breaking already, and you see that line around this precinct here in Buckhead, a lot of enthusiasm here on the first day of early voting -- Pamela.

BROWN: All right, Nick Valencia, thanks so much for that.

And let's continue this discussion with Gabriel Sterling. He is the chief operating officer for the Georgia secretary of state's office.

Hi, Gabriel. Here we are again, right? It's hard to believe early voting is starting in Georgia. The Election Day is right around the corner. I want to talk about this ruling, because, as I noted, it is a blow to some of these Republicans who are trying to broaden the powers of these election officials in Georgia. What's your response to this big decision?

GABRIEL STERLING, GEORGIA VOTING SYSTEM IMPLEMENTATION MANAGER: Well, I mean, the law is the law. It's pretty plain on its face that this is a mandatory action by these board members.

But what people need to understand is, I have read some of the things made by plaintiffs here, and their main thought process oftentimes is that they have to review these things and make sure the processes are followed, which they already do. In 2020 in Floyd County, before they certified, they realized they were missing 2,400 votes that should have been counted and they found a section that hadn't been scanned. They scanned them. They put them in the certified vote.

This is how it's supposed to work. Everybody has a part in the process.

BROWN: So what does this mean for that controversial rule from the election board about engaging in a reasonable inquiry if they have questions about some of the results?

STERLING: I mean, that's sort of an ambiguous, squishy way to write anything. And I understand some people's worries about this.

But these people who are the ones who are the certifiers don't drop out of the sky on the Wednesday after the election. They are there throughout the entire process. They work with the elections workers and directors to pick the locations, look at the processes, keep up with how things are going, looking at the voter registration list.

They should be involved in this process all the way through. So there's really nothing new here. The main thing is, we are going to have every county and estate will be certified by November 12 at 5:00 p.m., as the law calls for.

BROWN: All right. And early voting -- and we're seeing the lines right here in Atlanta -- kicking off today. There are some changes. What can voters expect about what's different this year?

STERLING: Well, the good part is what's the main difference is it's faster to check in now than it was in 2020. Our average check-in time is going at about 56 seconds right now. We are blowing doors on turnout right now.

I heard Nick say a number earlier. That was a number from about half- an-hour ago. Now we're at 90,000 people have already voted early, and the record for a first day of early voting in Georgia was 2020. And that was 136,000. It's not even lunchtime yet.

[11:05:13]

BROWN: Wow.

STERLING: We're going to blow that one out of the water.

BROWN: Yes, that says a lot.

I want to talk about, go back to the Georgia State Election Board I had mentioned. They passed this new rule also, it's very controversial, requiring all ballots to be hand-counted on Election Day. Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger was asked about the new rule yesterday in a Washington Post live. Let's listen and talk on the other side.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

QUESTION: Do you think that the State Election Board overstepped its authority with these rules?

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER (R), GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: I have been pretty clear that I think they exceed state law. So has our general counsel. She wrote them a detailed two-page memo, and they have it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: What do you think? Do you agree it exceeds state law?

STERLING: Well, the fun part is, I'm not a lawyer, but I have a lot of lawyers around me. And I have one very important lawyer, the attorney general, Chris Carr, who wrote a memo to the State Election Board, basically did the equivalent of a legal smackdown, saying these rules you are passing are not tethered to statute.

So, by definition, that means in many ways they have exceeded their authority.

BROWN: All right, there you go.

How long do you think it will take for a winner to be declared in Georgia?

STERLING: Pamela, how long is a piece of string? There's a few things I do know.

In S.B.189 that was passed this year in the legislature and signed by Governor Kemp, all the early votes have to be put into the election night reporting system by 8:00 p.m. And with the blowout numbers we're already seeing, we're anticipating 65 percent of our voters will probably vote in person early. So, by 8:00, we will have the biggest chunk of those votes in.

It also requires all the absentee ballots that have been processed to be put in. So that'd be the bulk of the absentee ballots. And then, by midnight, we will have to know the total number of voters who have cast votes. And the issue we have sometimes is, if it's a really close election, you may not know for a day or two.

But in a wider margin election, you can get away with those things. Like, what was really funny in 2020 everybody was worried about Georgia and taking so long. We have seen this in our vote counts before, California, Florida, New York, Illinois, all these big states, because their margins are so wide, it didn't matter.

In a close margin state -- nearly all of the battleground states, we're going to see close margins. So it's going to take some time. And the voters need to understand this will take time for us to get it right.

BROWN: I want to talk about that because you all also had the same messaging in 2020. It's going to take time to get it right. And that gap of time was filled with a lot of misinformation, disinformation that you responded to in 2020 in this moment that so many of us remember when you talked about the harassment and the death threats against you and your election workers.

Let's go back and watch that moment together.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STERLING: Someone's going to get hurt, someone's going to get shot, someone's going to get killed. And it's not right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And, of course, this happened before January 6, when unfortunately your prediction came through. How concerned are you about this happening again this time around, and what are you all doing to prevent a similar scenario?

STERLING: In an organized way, I don't see things that will happen.

What I am worried about is individuals being radicalized by the language on both sides. Let's face it, President Trump has had two assassination attempts and one potential one that was thwarted. And our concern is for our poll workers and the safety of voters. So we have deployed something we call poll worker first response to every poll manager in the state and the counties that have opted in, that, if there's an issue, they can text a particular number.

And it goes to their county elections director, the state elections director and local law enforcement. We have had seven convenings with local law enforcement and local elections officials around the state, covering about, I think, 700 people, bringing them together well beforehand. We have had tabletop training. We have distributed Narcan to all the

elections offices and done training on that. We have done training on de-escalation. We shouldn't have to worry about these things, but it's the reality of what we have to do to keep our poll workers safe and make sure there's a smooth good voting experience for everybody.

BROWN: I just want to follow up though, when you said both sides.

I mean, there's one side right now, Gabe, and we heard it in 2022, saying the election is rigged if I lose, and that's Donald Trump, the one pushing that out there, right? That's got to concern you.

STERLING: Absolutely. That does concern me. But the other side also says, if he gets elected, it could be the end of democracy. We see these escalating verbiage and this kind of rhetoric, and it's bad.

I mean, it's bad for the radicalization of individuals. And, yes, absolutely, Donald Trump is a large source of this. There's no question about that. But the other side calling him the end of democracy if he wins can be just as dangerous and we have seen outcomes from those.

I'm not trying to -- actually, I am trying to both-sides these things, because happened over the last 30 years is rhetoric has escalated on all sides and institutions have been undermined. And I agree. In 2020, it was very one-sided.

[11:10:04]

But, in 2022, everybody in Georgia thought it was great because they liked the outcomes and there was no issues. And then, when President Trump started running for reelection, it changed. You know, it's -- we're back to where we were in many ways.

But I know in Georgia voters can trust the outcomes. Republican or Democrat, we're going to call the balls and strikes. We will follow the law and follow the Constitution like always have. Our job is to make sure the votes are counter properly and that everybody who wants to vote can vote legally.

BROWN: Gabriel Sterling, very important messaging from you as one of the top election officials there in this important battleground state. Thanks.

STERLING: Thank you. Have a great day.

BROWN: You too.

And in North Carolina, early voting gets under way Thursday. Election officials are scrambling to make sure residents can cast their ballot in the aftermath of the devastation caused by Hurricane Helene.

CNN's Sara Murray joins us now.

Sara, it isn't just a logistical challenge, but there's also a fight against misinformation. SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right.

I mean, we have seen this information around relief efforts there. There's been a big concern even before this storm hit from election officials in battleground states across the country about misinformation spreading around voting, where you can vote, how you can vote.

And what we have seen is really a Herculean effort by officials in the state of North Carolina to make sure that their voting systems are up and running and ready for this early voting when it begins on Thursday. And so they recently said that there are about 80 precincts for this early in-person voting that they planned to have in some of these hardest-hit counties, and 75 of them were up and running.

So they're in very good shape. And North Carolina is grappling with a new voter I.D. law for the first time this presidential election. If you're showing up, you need to show I.D. And there are exceptions. One of those exceptions is for a natural disaster. So part of what the state board there is doing is explaining how people can still show up and vote in the presidential election if, in the storm, their I.D. was lost.

So there's a big informational component going on right now, as well as just sort of the logistics of making sure that these places are up and running, both for early voting and then also for Election Day in November, Pam.

BROWN: And there's also this fight going in the battleground Wisconsin, right, involving ballot drop boxes. Tell us about that.

MURRAY: Yes, I mean, it seems like such a minor thing, right, the box where you can just go and drop off your ballot. In some ways, you would think it's safer than putting it in the mail where it has to travel around before it comes back to your community.

But this was a big fight in Wisconsin. There's a local mayor in Wausau who decided to wheel away the ballot drop box. He put on a hard hat. He said he didn't feel that it was secure. We went to a very feisty town meeting where people on both sides of the aisle were expressing their concerns or their support for the drop box.

And then in another county in Wisconsin, there's a sheriff who was on stage with Donald Trump at a rally and pointed out that he is essentially trying to do away with drop boxes in his county. He reached out to the local municipal clerks and encouraged them not to use drop boxes, citing concerns about voter fraud or even the appearance of voter fraud.

And, Pam, we should note that voter fraud is exceedingly rare, but we have seen a sort of vilification of these drop boxes since 2020. And, of course, Donald Trump has been a leading purveyor of misinformation on this front.

BROWN: All right, Sara Murray, thanks so much. And coming up, former Fulton County special prosecutor Nathan Wade

testifying right now before members of Congress,there. He stepped down earlier this year over allegations of an improper romantic relationship with the DA, Fani Willis. What all of this could mean for Donald Trump's election subversion case in Georgia.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:18:15]

BROWN: Well, happening now, the former special prosecutor in the election subversion case against Donald Trump in Georgia is sitting for a closed-door deposition before the Republican-led House Judiciary Committee.

Nathan Wade resigned in March after allegations of an improper romantic relationship with his boss, Fulton County district attorney Fani Willis.

Zachary Cohen joins us now from Capitol Hill.

So, Zachary, what is the focus of this deposition?

ZACHARY COHEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Yes Pam, Nathan Wade was subpoenaed by House Republicans, who have been claiming that the prosecution of Donald Trump in Georgia by Fulton County DA Fani Willis was politically motivated.

And this investigation has really focused around the use of federal funds, but that's been used as a vehicle to continue to raise that claim without really presenting any sort of evidence to back it up. Now, Nathan Wade is here, again, under subpoena. He's been testifying behind closed doors for about an hour now.

And it remains to be seen if he will ultimately answer questions from the committee. We're told he's being questioned just by committee staff today, but we caught up with Nathan Wade as he entered the hearing room today and he was silent as we -- or asked him a series of questions about the topics he expects to be asked about and what answers he might provide.

Members of the committee, especially Republicans, do anticipate his limited -- his answers will also be limited in this deposition today. But, ultimately, we have to -- we can't ignore the politics of this moment, right? It comes as early voting in Georgia is starting and it also comes as Donald Trump has continued to use that claim of being a victim of political prosecutions as a centerpiece of his presidential campaign.

So, Nathan Wade on the Hill today answering questions about both his role in the Georgia criminal case and also his relationship with Fani Willis. It just remains to be seen if he will actually answer any of those questions. '

BROWN: And I believe we actually have some sound, right?

COHEN: Oh, that's right, Pam, yes.

[11:20:00]

And I want to be -- take a listen to what Nathan Wade said to Kaitlan Collins a few months ago when she interviewed him about his relationship with Fani Willis and the state of the Georgia election interference case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN HOST: Just to clarify, when did the romantic relationship between the two of you start?

NATHAN WADE, FORMER GEORGIA SPECIAL PROSECUTOR: Yes, so we get into -- there's been this effort to say that, OK, these exact dates are at issue and these exact dates are -- I'm getting signaled here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: So, obviously, Nathan Wade has had some trouble answering questions about his relationship with Fani Willis in the past and on camera. We will see if he does disclose more information to the committee behind closed doors.

But, Pam, as you know, this is the issue that is still at the center of an ongoing legal proceeding that could determine whether or not Fani Willis is ultimately disqualified from the Georgia case. We won't see a trial in the Georgia case before the 2024 election, but if Fani Willis is allowed to stay, we could potentially see this case go to trial at some point in the future. If she's removed, the case all but goes away.

BROWN: All right, Zachary Cohen, thanks so much.

And coming up: In the wake of Hurricane Helene, a town in Western North Carolina has become the target of bizarre conspiracy theories. I will ask the mayor what he's doing to combat this misinformation mess up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[11:26:08]

BROWN: In North Carolina, this man right here is charged with threatening FEMA workers responding to Hurricane Helene. When arrested, he was armed with a handgun and a rifle.

Various threats have caused FEMA to temporarily pause some of its relief efforts amid these alarming conspiracy theories. They are back now, though, going door-to-door. Here's a sampling from social media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are bulldozing Chimney Rock, bulldozing the whole damn town. They are getting rid of it. Bodies, trees, buildings, it doesn't matter. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Apparently, they're getting ready to just

bulldoze that entire community, and the local residents are speaking out, stating there are still bodies in the trees.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So, it goes without saying, none of that is true.

Joining us now is the mayor of Chimney Rock, Peter O'Leary, who holds a nonpartisan seat.

These are such inflammatory false claims. This one, in particular stood out to me, Mayor. The government -- oh.

The government plans to seize your devastated community and bulldoze bodies under the -- can you hear me? Oh, no. Did we lose you? I have been so looking forward to this segment, because I think it's so important.

Mayor, can you hear me? We just were talking during the break.

We might have to go back and -- yes, we just lost the mayor, unfortunately. We're going to try to get him back because this is a really important story about all the misinformation happening there in this town and really all over North Carolina after Hurricane Helene.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)