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Trump And Harris Blitz Battlegrounds Two Days Until Election Day; 10 States Will Vote On The Future Of Abortion Access; From Ukraine To The Middle East, Next President Faces A World On Edge; Now, Trump Speaks At North Carolina Rally; Some Trump Supporters Preparing To Contest Election Results. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired November 03, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:05]

JESSICA DEAN, CNN HOST: Hi, and thanks so much for joining me. I'm Jessica Dean in New York.

And the countdown to election day is now down to the final two days. And with time running off the clock, both campaigns barnstorming swing states spending their closing hours warning voters about each other and urging their supporters in key states to head to the polls.

So far more than 72 million Americans have cast their vote in this historically close race and now with just 48 hours until election day, brand-new polls from the "New York Times" and Siena College are giving us one last-minute snapshot of just how razor tight this race is. Those polls you see showing no clear leader in almost every battleground state, and in Georgia, Michigan and Pennsylvania the numbers are tied.

We have a team of correspondents out on the trail covering all of the campaigns and their stops. Let's begin in the blue wall state of Michigan where Vice President Kamala Harris is holding multiple events today.

CNN's Eva McKend is in Detroit for us.

And Eva, she is spending a lot of time in Michigan in this very -- using very valuable time, just two days before election day.

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Jess, perhaps it's the blue wall that presents the cleanest possible path to victory for the vice president. So that is why we have seen her spend such a great deal of time over the past several weeks in this state trying to cast a wide net and appeal to a whole host of voters whether that are events targeted towards moderate voters, former Trump supporters, or the labor community in this state.

Doing a lot of events targeted towards boosting manufacturing jobs and trying to lean into the organizing strength of local labor unions. Today, we saw see her make a pitch to black voters. The campaign long maintained that they view black voters as persuadable voters and don't take this constituency for granted. So she spoke at a number of places here in the Detroit area including at a black church. And it is there where she didn't necessarily make this policy

argument. It is perhaps maybe too late to litigate policy at this stage. But we instead heard her talk about character, and told voters to essentially ask themselves in this moment who they wanted to lead this country because who they ultimately select could say everything about who we are as a nation. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS (D), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What kind of country do we want for our children and our grandchildren? A country of chaos, fear, and hate, or a country of freedom, justice, and compassion? And the great thing about living in a democracy as long as we can hold on to it is that we have the power, each of us, to answer that question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKEND: So this wasn't an overtly political address to the church that is perhaps not the appropriate venue for that, but it was clear that she was talking about the former president.

Listen, the vice president has already voted. She voted by mail. Her ballot now en route to California. And she's going to end the day making her case at a big rally here in East Lansing -- Jess.

DEAN: All right. Eva McKend on the trail in Detroit. Thank you so much.

And right now former president Donald Trump is holding a campaign rally in battleground North Carolina. You see him there on the stage. This is the second of three campaign events he's holding today in three separate swing states. At his Pennsylvania rally this morning, Trump said he should have never left the White House after he lost the 2020 election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have been working for nine years. We did a great job. We had the best economy ever. We had the wall. We had everything. I built over 500 miles, well, they don't even talk about the wall. But we had the best border, the safest border. I won't pull down my world's favorite chart because I don't want to waste a lot of your time.

But my world's favorite chart done by the Border Patrol it said we had the safest border in the history of our country the day that I left. I shouldn't have left.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: CNN's Alayna Treene is joining us from that rally in North Carolina.

And Alayna, in addition to saying that, the former president turning up his dark rhetoric in other ways for his closing message. He -- now the Trump campaign is scrambling to clean up after he made some violent remarks aimed at reporters today. What are they saying?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jessica, what they're saying is they're trying to argue that Donald Trump really wasn't, you know, he wasn't referring to trying to have the media feel any harm or calling for any harm to the media. Instead in a statement from Donald Trump -- one of his top advisers, Stephen Miller, or excuse me, Stephen Cheung, he said that essentially he was talking about the two assassination attempts on his life, the former president was, and then went on to say that he was actually looking out for the media's welfare.

[16:05:05]

Now clearly you heard what Donald Trump said in that cliff. It's very different from that statement. But this is their way of trying to clean that up a little bit.

Now you mentioned, you know, Donald Trump is on the stage behind me. I want to talk about what he said in Pennsylvania but so far just listening to what he said, the goal for him, and this is what he's talking about right now, is about getting people out to vote and to the polls on Tuesday. The entire strategy right now for the Trump campaign is to really focus on turnout and ensuring that their people are showing up for that, particularly the demographics of voters that they know are pulling more so for Donald Trump including white men.

Men in general, they're having an issue with women, something Donald Trump has repeatedly talked about over the last several days. So that's been the real focus for him. But back to what he was saying in Pennsylvania. One other thing that he mentioned that I found very notable, Jessica, is he talked a little bit about when going through some of the accomplishments that he said he had when he was in the White House. He acknowledged at one point that he thinks he shouldn't have left. I want you to take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I have a piece of glass over here and I don't have a piece of glass there. But I have this piece of glass here. But all we have really over here is the fake news, right? And to get me, somebody would have to shoot through the fake news. And I don't mind that so much because -- I don't mind.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TREENE: Now, Jessica, this is very much in line with what we have heard from Donald Trump. But, you know, I covered him during his time in the White House before and after he had lost the election to Joe Biden, he had said to other advisers that he had hoped or he had thought that he shouldn't leave the White House. So this lines up with that.

But, look, so far other things that we have heard today he continued to air some of his grievances against his political opponents. He started to cast doubt on the integrity of this upcoming election, similar to what he had done with the 2020 election, and starting to sow the seeds of doubt for whether or not this election will be secure.

We'll hear what he says during the speech as he's speaking behind me. I know that those comments that we just walked through were not part of his prepared remarks. They were Donald Trump riffing and kind of going off-script. The real closing message that I know the campaign wants him to be delivering is really focusing on those key policy areas of the economy, of the border, of that question of whether or not, were you, you know, were you better off four years ago than you are today.

That's what they want Donald Trump to be focusing on but again as we have seen for the last several days now, the inflammatory rhetoric that he's been using, that off-script language that he has been using is what's really been garnering a lot of attention and it's not in line with what they want him to be saying with just two days until election day -- Jessica.

DEAN: All right. Alayna Treene for us, thank you so much.

And up next, Trump will be making a campaign stop in Georgia. That's the final stop on his Sunday swing state blitz. CNN's Sara Murray is in Atlanta.

And Sara, Governor Tim Walz, of course Harris's running mate, also in Georgia today, too. He's rallying in Atlanta right now. Walk us through how Georgia is shaping up this key swing state just two before election day.

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there's a reason everyone is making their sort of like final pitches here, right? CNN Poll of Polls show an essentially tied race with Donald Trump at 49 percent, Kamala Harris at 47 percent. And obviously the worry here is that if it is a very tight race especially if Donald Trump comes just short that we could see some kind of repeat of what happened in 2020 were Donald Trump and his allies tried to challenge the results of the election, tried to overturn the results of the election.

And look, Atlanta, Georgia, has really been a hotbed of Republican litigation this weekend. What we have seen from the Republican Party and the local Republican Party here in Georgia is essentially saying that absentee ballots that are being returned this weekend are illegal. They went to a judge and tried to get offices close so they couldn't accept ballots. The judge refused to do that. We're seeing yet another lawsuit coming in this evening from Republicans continuing to try to challenge this set of absentee ballots coming in over the weekend.

And I think that gives you an idea of just how closely the Republicans are looking at the margins right now. They're looking at even small batches of ballots, even hundreds of ballots that could be returned over this weekend at various county offices, trying to challenge those, trying to be able to dispute those in the event that Donald Trump comes up short. So that's how tight the race is here, Jess. We are talking about essentially batches of hundreds of ballots that are being turned in, that are the subject of multiple lawsuits over this weekend. DEAN: All right. Sara Murray with the latest from Georgia for us.

Thank you so much for that reporting.

And for more on all of it, let's talk now with CNN senior political analyst and senior editor at "The Atlantic," Ron Brownstein.

Ron, good to see you.

[16:10:02]

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Hey, Jessica.

DEAN: Hi. Well, hello. We have so much to talk about. I want to go back for a second and talk about these comments coming from Trump today that Alayna Treene was walking us through. We heard him talking about violence toward Liz Cheney earlier this week. Now he's turned it on the media. Then he said that he shouldn't have left the White House. He continues to spew all of these misinformation and lies about election, fraudulent election.

Obviously this isn't what his campaign wants him talking about at the end. But what do you make of all of this here on this Sunday before election day?

BROWNSTEIN: Look, I mean, the whole week has been an incredibly concentrated preview or distillation of what a second Trump term would be like. I mean, we started with Madison Square Garden a week ago, floating island of garbage. I will protect women whether they like it or not. The speaker of the House saying that with unified control they would repeal, try to repeal the Affordable Care Act and the law promoting semiconductors.

Trump saying he would give RFK Jr. a significant role over women's health. The Trump transition head saying that RFK Jr. have convinced them that vaccines need to be re-examined. RFK Jr. himself saying that one of the first actions would be to try to remove fluoride from the water going back to the John Birch Society in the 1960s. And you noted the threats of violence or the discussion of violence about Liz Cheney and now reporters, not to mention what happened, whatever happened with the microphone the other night.

DEAN: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: You know, Republicans want the final days of the campaign to be, are you better off than you were four years ago. But in many ways Trump is forcing voters, the last undecided voters to address the question, are you really willing to put him back in the White House for four more years? And I've said to you before in the final days in many ways the critical question is, what is the question. And certainly he is putting the focus more on himself than on the economy.

DEAN: Right. Because there is this amount of voters that either -- maybe let's not call them undecided but they could be persuadable or are they going to vote or not, and so that brings me to the "Des Moines Register" poll that came out yesterday, and I just -- I really thought to myself, I would like to know what Ron thinks about this so I'm glad you're here because I want to know what you glean from this.

Reminding all our viewers this poll has Harris at 47, Trump at 44. That's within the margin of error so no clear leader by our standards. But digging into this, seeing these independent women, women over the age of 65 really driving Harris's support there. What do you think about this poll?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. If you remember back in 2020, it was the "Des Moines Register" poll from Ann Selzer going in the opposite direction that really punctured the Democratic optimism that there was going to be a sweep in the Senate in particular. I mean, they thought they were on the brink of beating a whole bunch Republicans and then Selzer poll came out and in fact accurately predicted that we would be largely, you know, in our trench warfare trenches without much movement.

And so, you know, this is significant not necessarily because it means that Harris is going to win Iowa. That would be remarkable if it happens, although the Democrats say it's not out of the realm of possibility. It's more because it's reflective -- might be reflective of what's going on across the region. You know, it's a preponderantly white state, 94 percent of the voters are white. It's a pretty culturally conservative state.

And if Harris is anywhere near the margins among women, 56, 36 or college graduates 2-1 in this poll, in the other states in the region she is in a very strong position. Now "The New York Times" polls today do not support such dramatic movement in her direction elsewhere in the rustbelt. But they do generally show the story as we've talked about a few times, you know, in the last month of Harris being right at the brink of where or even over where she needs to be among white voters, holding to Biden's performance in 2020 which was an improvement on Clinton in 2016, which would be consistent with this poll, and the issue being how big an inroad, how big can Trump expand with nonwhite voters.

Fascinatingly those "New York Times"-Siena polls showed Harris surging among black voters in Georgia and North Carolina but way below traditional Democratic performance in Detroit, in Michigan and Pennsylvania, and that accounting for the ties that it found in Michigan and Pennsylvania, and I guess, you know, you have to decide whether you think that's really two things that could both happen at the same time, moving back toward the historic margins in the southeast but not in the Midwest.

So a lot of conflicting poll data but one through line very close to where she needs to be among whites and in many ways the movement among non-whites could be dispositive.

DEAN: Yes. Nothing like a last ride on the poller-coaster for all of us before this happens.

[16:15:04]

BROWNSTEIN: No. Absolutely.

DEAN: But just one more thought on that did strike me. I mean, we've talked about the gender gap over and over and over again. But in a lot of these numbers we really do see that continuing and it looks like it could be at historic levels once this all settles and once we actually get the results.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. Yes. Well, it's, you know, as you said before, race and age which are big divides historically, they're narrowing in this election, and gender and education are widening. The gender gap has been pretty consistent in the 21st Century. Democrats have won women between 11 and 13-point margins according to the exit polls at every race except '04. Biden pushed that out to plus 15 in the exit polls. In 2020 there are -- you know, in that NBC poll today I think she was plus 20 among women.

We could see a historic gender gap. Not clear that will translate in every state but the basic rule of thumb to keep in mind is that women are a majority of voters, not only nationally but in every swing state. And that -- you know, we've talked about all these cross currents demographically, geographically, urban and rural, college, one simple rule. Donald Trump has to win men by more than Kamala Harris wins women in every swing state. That is the basic rule.

If the margins among women are big enough, that will decide the race because more women vote, you know, women are a bigger share of the electorate, a majority of the electorate in every swing state historically.

DEAN: All right. Well, we will see you on the other side, Ron Brownstein. Thank you so much.

BROWNSTEIN: Thanks for having me. OK.

DEAN: Tuesday is election night in America and from the first votes to the critical count, no one covers it like CNN. Special live coverage starts Tuesday at 4:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN.

And still to come, voters in at least 10 states will determine the future of abortion access in their state. We're going to discuss those initiatives next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:21:38]

DEAN: On election day, voters in 10 states will determine the future of abortion access in their states in addition to casting a ballot for the next president. Advocates for abortion rights amendments hope the measures will restore the issue of reproductive rights to women rather than the state after the Supreme Court overturned Roe v. Wade in 2022.

Joining me now to discuss is Victoria Knight, health policy reporter for Axios Pro.

Good to see you, Victoria.

VICTORIA KNIGHT, HEALTH POLICY REPORTER, AXIOS PRO: Hey. Thanks so much for having me. DEAN: Yes. So let's start first in Florida. It has an abortion measure

on the ballot. They of course enacted a six-week abortion ban in the last year and it had been a critical access point for many seeking abortion care. Walk us through that particular state and what's going on there.

KNIGHT: Yes. This one is really interesting because as you said there is a six-week abortion ban. That's one of the strictest abortion bans in the country because it is, you know, a central point in the southeast where, you know, people from other southern states traveling to Florida before this abortion ban was put into place. So this ballot measure that's on the ballot on Tuesday it would basically overturn the six-week abortion ban. So it would return abortion access to the point of viability. So that was the point that we had when Roe v. Wade was still in place.

That's basically 24 to 28 weeks, it kind of depends, but it's basically when a fetus can survive outside of the womb. So if voters approve this abortion ballot measure, then people would have access to abortion up until the 24 to 28 weeks and the six-week ban would be overturned.

DEAN: And so just widening it out for a minute, since the Dobbs decision the past two years seven states have voted on abortion ballot measures. All of those aimed at restricting -- all of them aimed at restricting abortion access failed whereas those attempting to expand it have passed even in conservative states.

In your view, how has that influenced turnout in the states currently voting on the issue and kind of how they're putting together these issues in the sense of are they're learning from what's happened before and what do you anticipate we can see in the coming days?

KNIGHT: Yes, exactly. I think it's important to look at that broader framework so, the ones you mention in 2022, in Kentucky and Kansas which are conservative states, there were measures that were trying to basically restrict access to abortion. That failed. And so you saw huge numbers of voters turn out for that. It's also important to remember that the majority of Americans do believe that abortion should be legal.

So if people feel strongly about abortion rights, then they're more likely to turn out. And you will see when voters are polled, you know, voters that tend to vote Democratic, abortion is a higher up issue for them than voters who often end up being Republican. But it is a very driving force for those who do vote Democratic. So kind of coming back to now, to 2024, so you see some states, we have obviously Florida, we have also Arizona. There's an abortion ballot measure. There's also Nevada.

So those are Senate -- as we know those are Senate races that are tighter, so Democrats are definitely hoping that this -- having these abortion ballot measures on there will help turn voters out, turn more people out. So we'll see if that happens.

[16:25:01] But obviously Democrats have been kind of pounding that message throughout this election cycle and, you know, in this week leading up to the election.

DEAN: Yes. It's certainly been a big issue for them. I want to also talk about a different issue. RFK Jr., former president Trump, they were talking about fluoride in the water and Trump today told NBC News that RFK Jr.'s pledge to remove fluoride from public water, quote, "sounds OK" to him. He has said that Kennedy, who is of course a leading promoter of debunked conspiracy theories about vaccines, would have a big role in healthcare if Trump were to win reelection.

How do you think this would -- what you think about this? And do you get the sense that voters want someone like that in charge of healthcare decisions?

KNIGHT: Yes. That's a good question.

DEAN: In policy rather.

KNIGHT: Yes. It's a good question. I think that there are some aspects of some things that RFK does talk about that does resonate with some people. So, you know, the anti-vaccine stuff, I'm not sure how much that resonates. But there are -- he is really big on ending chronic disease and, you know, trying to kind of promoting like a healthier lifestyle. And, you know, he has kind of a group of people working on his movement called Make America Healthy Again.

That's kind of a big driving force for them. And so you do see some people connecting to that. As far as some more of the junk science stuff, I'm not sure. Yes, as you said, he posted about that the Trump White House would ban fluoride, you know, as soon as Trump gets in office in January if it does happen.

You know, it's important to note that the CDC says having fluoride in your water is safe. There's plenty of studies that show it's safe. It basically help prevent cavities. It's kind of a cost-effective way to do that. So I'm not sure there is a lot of people that are hoping fluoride is taken out of the water. He said that, you know, it was connected to various health conditions. I'm not sure there is evidence of that.

But it is important to watch because Trump has said he may put him in some kind of role in a second Trump administration.

DEAN: All right. So much more to come on this. Victoria Knight, thanks so much. We appreciate it.

KNIGHT: Thank you for having me.

DEAN: Crisis in the Middle East, war in Ukraine, and a growing military threat from China and North Korea. The next U.S. president is going to inherit a world on edge. We're going to look at how each of the candidates is expected to handle those threats. That's next.

You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:32:03]

DEAN: This election comes at a time of significant global tensions. There are wars in Ukraine, in the Middle East, and ever growing concerns about North Korea and China's military ambitions.

CNN's Kylie Atwood has a look at how differently Donald Trump and Kamala Harris might take on these challenges.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The world is watching, knowing that former President Trump and Vice President Harris would carry out entirely different foreign policies. Trump's driving ethos is America first and swiftly bringing wars to an end with no clear strategy on how to do so.

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I will end the war in Ukraine. I will stop the chaos in the Middle East. And I will prevent World War III from happening.

ATWOOD: For Harris, it's embracing U.S. allies.

KAMALA HARRIS, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: The United States cannot and should not isolate ourselves from the rest of the world.

ATWOOD: Often proclaiming that he was the most pro-Israel president ever, Trump has promised to back Israel in the ongoing conflicts.

TRUMP: we're going to take care of Israel, and they know that.

ATWOOD: While also indicating he would not give the U.S. ally a long leash.

TRUMP: Get your victory and get it over with. It has to stop. The killing has to stop.

ATWOOD: But what a solution might look like remains elusive.

Meanwhile, Harris is in favor of a two state solution. Despite repeatedly highlighting the horrific civilian death toll in Gaza and calling for a ceasefire --

HARRIS: We cannot allow ourselves to become numb to the suffering and I will not be silent.

ATWOOD: -- she has not indicated that she would break from the Biden administration's continued support for Israel, including the flow of U.S. weapons.

HARRIS: I've had an unwavering commitment to the existence of the state of Israel, to its security, to And to the people of Israel. ATWOOD: Another closely watched issue is Russia's war in Ukraine. Harris' Ukraine position may be scant on details, but clear on the overall objective.

HARRIS: I will continue to stand with Ukraine and I will work to ensure Ukraine prevails in this war.

ATWOOD: Trump is less clear. He has promised to negotiate an end to the war within 24 hours of taking office, but has offered no clarity on what that could mean for Ukraine's territorial integrity.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you believe it's in the U.S. best interest for Ukraine to win this war? Yes or no?

TRUMP: I think it's the U.S. best interest to get this war finished and just get it done.

ATWOOD: Pivoting to China, America's greatest global competitor, Trump's plan is essentially one word.

TRUMP: The most beautiful word in the dictionary is tariff.

ATWOOD: Trump said he will enact 60 percent tariffs on all imported goods from the country, and suggested that he would be willing to go even further than that, particularly if China invaded Taiwan, floating 200 percent tariffs.

Meanwhile, Harris has generally committed to invest in American innovation to tackle the threats that China poses.

HARRIS: My plan also invests in American manufacturing and innovation, because I will make sure that America, not China, wins the competition for the 21st century.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[16:35:00]

DEAN: All right. Kylie Atwood, thank you for that reporting.

When we come back, torched ballot boxes, threats of physical violence, and now the National Guard on standby. We're going to talk about the state of election security with a former DHS official.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

DEAN: Getting back to one of our top stories now, former President Donald Trump once again today dialing up violent rhetoric as the campaign heads into its final couple of days, suggesting he wouldn't mind if someone shot through the media to get to him.

[16:40:04]

It adds to similar previous violent comments including suggesting former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney should be shot at as well. And with us is CNN Senior National Security Analyst and former Assistant Secretary at DHS Juliette Kayyem. Hi, Juliette. Thanks for being on.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Hi. Thank you.

DEAN: Let's talk about some of this language. And, look, we know that if we were to ask, and Alayna Treene has asked the campaign, he didn't say that, he didn't mean that, that's not what -- but the fact is we've played the clip from today and we've played the clip about Liz Cheney many times, and it is insinuating violence against people. How does language like that fuel the perception that we are on the edge of violence in this campaign?

KAYYEM: Oh, I think we don't really need to parse it at this stage. It's absolutely clear what Donald Trump is doing. He is -- there's two things going on here. One is he clearly wants to incite his followers should he lose to get out in the streets, cause havoc, cause mayhem. And that's part of his election strategy. The more chaos that he can have, say, Tuesday, Wednesday or Thursday night if the election is not called, the more than he can begin his attempts to, you know, bring it to the courts or to the House of Representatives.

So, one is just to view the violence as a campaign strategy that has no equivalent anywhere close in the Democratic Party. The second thing to remember is that his language itself is getting darker, more crude, more obscene, more sort of like not -- it's like beyond PG-13 at this stage. That is a symptom of something different and that I'll let others decide what that is. But that is a candidate who is unable to control essentially what is coming at the top of his mind.

And both are important because both relate to his ability to be basically a sitting president with the mental and emotional stability that's needed of that job.

DEAN: And I want to talk to you more broadly about election security. It is striking to me when I talk to Democrats, Republicans, everybody's genuinely worried about something, some sort of violence. There are. People are worried about this, whether it happens or not, they're worried about it.

KAYYEM: The proof is in the pudding. I've been with CNN a while. I have never had so much election coverage or involvement with election coverage. I normally leave that to the political people. And I'm only smiling because of how, you know, sort of absurd, sort of the shock of having to be in this moment.

Look, we all know that that there will be -- there already is violence. Let's just be clear here. It's not like we're waiting for it. There are attacks against ballot boxes or trying to set them on fire or setting them on fire. There is attacks, personal, physical, through emails and threats against election workers, canvassers, and whatever else. And then, of course, the worry about what happens on Tuesday.

So, these are -- some are spontaneous effort, some spontaneous violence, just some random person who's -- you know, who wants to make his point clear. We don't know what the motivation is in some of, in some of these cases, but I don't want to ignore the nurtured violence. And that's coming from domestic and international circles. The domestic sources are clearly Donald Trump.

I don't both sides this issue. There may be Democrats who go to the streets. There may be lefties who go to violence. You can't say that that's organized by the Democratic Party. What Donald Trump is doing now is trying to create sort of many January 6th, many incitement efforts because, again, he needs chaos if he loses on Tuesday or it's not clear on Tuesday to begin his election strategy to try to be designated the winner.

But the other thing is, of course, foreign sources. We know now that the Russians are supporting, if not making videos that allege that Democrats or the Harris campaign are doing all sorts of nefarious things to undermine the election. Those are not true. The FBI is naming Russia. Russia is supporting Donald Trump's candidacy.

We know that and that's being done again to create the atmospherics and lots of people's minds who will believe it that this election is not safe or secure. And I'll just end with, it is, we have a very, very safe and secure election system. You'll hear about things here. There are lots of millions of people are voting, but it is not. It is a safe and secure effort going on now.

DEAN: Yes. And I'm struck, too, Juliette, it seems like you mentioned the FBI or you mentioned the Russian campaign to undermine the election, the FBI exposing that campaign about that fake video, which you were alluding to about Haitian immigrants voting multiple times.

[16:45:06]

That is just one example. That is a foreign actor. There's also domestic, as you were saying, people trying to spread disinformation, including, frankly, Elon Musk, who is supporting former President Trump, and the former president who keeps saying things that their elections rigged when it's not.

What do you think about that now it is -- I was talking to someone earlier that now it's on the election officials, to not only run a good election, but to be able to combat disinformation?

KAYYEM: Yes. They're going to have a bunch of efforts over the next couple of days. So, some are just the pure physical security ones. We need to make sure people are safe. So, there's lots of planning going on for the physical safety of campaign offices, those who are out in the field, lots of integration with local and private police to try to support them. We've seen governors now invoke the National Guard. So, that's one piece. The disinformation is getting out quickly to undermine a narrative that's being supported by Candidate Donald Trump, as well as, as his sort of V.P. proxy, Elon Musk.

DEAN: All right. Juliette Kayyem, as always, thank you so much. We really appreciate it.

KAYYEM: Thanks.

DEAN: And we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:00]

DEAN: Supporters of the former president are already pushing false claims of voter fraud and promoting lies about a rigged election.

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan has more now on the multi-front plan some Trump supporters have to contest the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's like how much theft can they get away with in order to prevent Trump from winning.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Do you think he's going to win?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If we have a fair election, yes.

O'SULLIVAN: There's no way he can lose fairly?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fairly, there's no way he can lose.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): MAGA World is preparing its followers for a stolen election.

GREG STENSTROM, AUTHOR: They're just going to announce Harris is the winner. We're going to go, we win again, and now try to stop us again. And what's different this time is we're going to be able to stop them.

MARK BURNS, PASTOR: Is there anybody here in North Carolina ready to take this nation back by any means necessary? Say, yes, yes, yes.

O'SULLIVAN: They're laying out step by step plans to overturn a potential Harris victory. These are not random Trump supporters. These are influential figures in the MAGA movement.

IVAN RAIKLIN, MAGA ACTIVIST: It's all going to depend on what they end up doing. I have a plan and strategy for every single component of it, and then January 6th is going to be pretty fun.

O'SULLIVAN: Many of them, like Ivan Raiklin and Michael Flynn, have huge audiences online and are involved in election denying groups that have spent millions of dollars furthering election conspiracy theories.

MICHAEL FLYNN, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: And we should know by Tuesday night, by about nine or ten o'clock at night, that one party won.

O'SULLIVAN: Election officials across the country have explained that we likely won't know the full results on election night. To conspiracy theorists, however, that is a sign of fraud.

FLYNN: In this case, I strongly believe that Donald Trump, if this thing is a fair election, he'll win all 50 states.

RAIKLIN: Now, if it's legit, we don't have to worry, right? But who thinks it's going to be legit? You think they're just going to give it to you? No, this is going to be a fight.

O'SULLIVAN: Raiklin has encouraged people to pressure their state representatives not to certify election results if they suspect fraud.

RAIKLIN: We try to play it fair. If they steal it, our state legislatures are our final stop to guarantee a checkmate.

Be prepared on January 1st to apply the maximum motivation to your state reps, state senators.

O'SULLIVAN: In North Carolina, he and another right wing activist are going as far to say there should be no election because of the destruction after Hurricane Helene. They say the Republican-controlled state legislature should decide which presidential candidates gets their Electoral College votes.

NOEL FRITSCH, NATIONAL FILE: We don't have to do this popular vote in the state stuff for this federal election. We don't have to do it.

RAIKLIN: You got 120 House reps. How many of those are Republican? The majority. How about a significant majority? So, then how is the House body going to likely vote with your motivation for the Republican nominee? What about the Senate majority?

O'SULLIVAN: The idea is fringe and it is extreme, but a Republican congressman endorsed the idea at an event with Raiklin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was, hey, look, you got disenfranchised in 25 counties. You know what that vote probably would have been, which would be if I ring the legislature not to go, yes, we got to convene the legislature.

O'SULLIVAN: Before eventually walking it back.

The idea that the only way Harris can win is if the election is stolen is being pushed across hundreds of MAGA media outlets and from the former president himself.

TRUMP: Because they cheat. That's the only way we're going to lose, because they cheat.

O'SULLIVAN: And it's convincing his base.

What if the results show that Harris won? Do you think Trump will accept that?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think anybody will accept that because we know it's going to be a lie. But if that's what it is, it's what it is. We'll go from there. We'll see what happens. So, I just don't think that Trump's going to lose.

O'SULLIVAN: Do you think he won last time?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, definitely.

O'SULLIVAN: What happens if he loses?

[16:55:00]

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he loses, we're all going down January 6th.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): And, Jess, I think if we ran this piece a few years ago, we would have said look, this is just rhetoric. It's tough talk. It's not going to result in anything, in real action. Of course, now we have the benefit of knowing history. We know that talk like this, plans like this led to actions, most notably, of course, January 6th, 2021. Jess?

DEAN: All right. Donie O'Sullivan, a sobering way to end that show, thank you for that reporting.

And thank you for joining me today. I'm Jessica Dean.

Our special program and countdown to Election Day, The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer, starts after a quick break. Have a good day.

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