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Gaetz Withdraws His Attorney General Consideration; Putin: New Non-Nuclear Ballistic Missile Used Against Ukraine; ICC Issues Arrest Warrant For Israeli PM Netanyahu; Trump Tariffs Could Impact Elon Musk's Businesses In China. Aired 3-4p ET

Aired November 21, 2024 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:33]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. This is CNN NEWSROOM.

And let's get right to the news.

Many lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are breathing a sigh of relief today. Former Florida Congressman Matt Gaetz has now withdrawn his name from consideration to be the next attorney general one week after the president-elect selected Gaetz to be the nations top law enforcement officer, setting off a firestorm throughout Washington. His selection was not a popular one on Capitol Hill.

Gaetz took to X, formerly Twitter, for the announcement, saying, quote: It is clear that my confirmation was unfairly becoming a distraction to the critical work of the Trump-Vance transition. There is no time to waste on a needlessly protracted Washington scuffle.

Soon after, GOP Representative Don Bacon told me, quote, he Gaetz made the right decision.

Let's go to CNN's senior crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz.

Katelyn, it's notable that Gaetz news broke, his announcement came just as CNN reported was asking for comment from him about this House Ethics -- House Ethics Committee report, finding that he had had a second sexual encounter with a minor. Do we know that those two things were connected?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: We don't know if they're connected, but, Jim, it's just so telling. The House Ethics Committee knows a lot. They've spoken to a lot of witnesses and the leaks were clearly starting here on what the House Ethics Committee knows about Matt Gaetz and his history of allegedly having sex with at least one or one underage girl.

So the news that we were able to report, Sarah Ferris and Paula Reid here were able to report that a woman who spoke to the House Ethics Committee told them about not one, but two sexual encounters that she had with the congressman, one on an air hockey table and one in a threesome allegedly in 2017, at one party, that second sexual encounter, it wasn't known until our reporters were making the calls to the Gaetz team.

And then we were getting other word from around the Trump transition that sources realized that there was more damaging information that could be coming out about Matt Gaetz in this ethics report and that people around Gaetz were believing that there may be more witnesses that had been interviewed than they previously knew. All of what the House Ethics Committee was learning was being collected in that report where members of the committee were going to meet again in December about what to do with it. Once it was finalized. And all of it had picked up on what the FBI and the Justice Department itself had investigated when they criminally were when they were looking at Gaetz for possible criminal charges related to sex trafficking ultimately, he wasn't charged and denied a lot of this, but it was hanging over him from the moment that Donald Trump announced him as his pick for attorney general even before that.

SCIUTTO: Listen, it also raises hard questions about the Republicans on that committee voting not to release the report as that report clearly had new information we didn't know about.

Katelyn Polantz, thanks so much.

So was the potential drip, drip, drip of damaging information about Matt Gaetz just too much for the Trump transition team and for the president elect himself to bear, even though the president elect had said he was going to stick with Gaetz.

CNN's Alayna Treene covers all things Trump.

Alayna, I wonder if ultimately this was Trump's decision.

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN REPORTER: You know, honestly, I had that question, too. But from all of the conversations I've had since this has come out, Jim, I am told that this was that Gaetz's decision, and part of that, though, of course, is because when he was going through all of those different meetings with senators yesterday, I spoke with even before Gaetz had announced that he was deciding to withdraw.

I spoke with several people who were briefed on those meetings that he had alongside J.D. Vance, and they said that it was very clear the writing was on the wall. That senators, it was going to be a very difficult job to try and get enough senators on board to confirm him. There was a lot of uneasiness around the ethics report and the allegations around him, but also what Katelyn brought up, that there could be more that would come out, and essentially, I was told that he was the one who made this decision.

Now I will also say there have been a number of people close to Donald Trump, allies, advisers who are working on this transition process, who knew this as well. They had known he was going to have a very uphill battle to climb that it was pretty much unlikely that he was going to be able to get through.

[15:05:05]

And they had shared that with the president-elect himself. But as far as I have been told, this was not a directive from Donald

Trump himself. We shall see if I get more reporting to change that but I was also told, I will say that Gaetz did inform Donald Trump and his team before he made that announcement. I was told that he called up Donald Trump and J.D. Vance separately to tell them about this.

So, look, were going to see I think some of the key questions now is one, you know what does this mean potentially for other controversial picks? People like Pete Hegseth, who is also going around the hill today with J.D. Vance, and also where does this -- where does Donald Trump land now on trying to replace him?

SCIUTTO: And with new information, we should note about Pete Hegseth and allegations against him.

All right. So the hunt now for Gaetz's replacement at DOJ, which we should note to viewers is a top priority for President-elect Trump. He didn't like his options going in the first time around. So -- so who's now at the top of the list?

TREENE: So from our fresh calls that we have made since this news came out, the word is that Donald Trump is still very much far away from -- from any sort of name of who he would land on because what you just said, Jim, is exactly right, he didn't like the options that he was given when he had this whole slate of names. And we had reported many of them. People like Mark Paoletta, Ken Paxton, et cetera. That's why he landed on someone like Matt Gaetz.

And I have to say again, through all of this, Donald Trump had been very much all in on Gaetz. He thought Gaetz would be someone who would be a disrupter at the Department of Justice, and that's why he liked him. Of course, it plays into the loyalty as well.

But I will say some things we are picking up on this is buzz, though from people around Trump. Not necessarily coming from Trump himself clear distinction, because he is going to be the man who makes this decision is that potentially we could see, excuse me, someone like Todd Blanche, who he named as deputy attorney general, he was obviously one of Donald Trump's previous criminal lawyers. He oversaw and helped prosecute the case or, excuse me, defend Donald Trump in the case, prosecuted against him in the New York hush money trial.

But also people like Andrew Bailey, the Missouri attorney general. He is someone who many people close to Donald Trump had been pushing. They really like they think he would be a serious person. That could likely you know, particularly in comparison to Matt Gaetz, likely get confirmed by the Senate.

So there are some names that were hearing repeatedly, but really, its going to come down to what Donald Trump himself wants, because as you mentioned to him, this is the most important pick. And one other thing I'm just going to quickly add is that we know there's still a lot of other cabinet positions he needs to fill. Secretary of treasury, we know labor department of agriculture, those are all those decisions are likely to be much more the second priority.

Now Donald Trump is going to want to turn all his attention to this. That's why you saw him announce his attorney general pick so early on.

SCIUTTO: Alayna Treene, thanks so much.

All right. So Gaetz's decision to withdraw from consideration to be attorney general comes just one day after he was making the rounds on Capitol Hill, trying to make his case in particular to Senate Republicans. How did those meetings go and how did they play a role in today's decision?

Joining me now to discuss and what happens next is Marc Caputo, national political reporter and author of "The Bulwark's" MAGA Bill newsletter.

Marc, thanks so much for coming on.

MARC CAPUTO, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, THE BULWARK: Thanks, Jim. How are you?

SCIUTTO: All right. So got a lot of questions for you I want to start, if I can, with what's next. Because when he was selected, he withdrew -- resigned from the next Congress to which he was elected -- he was elected for another term by quite a wide margin first, most basic question can he go back?

CAPUTO: Yes. He can go back because there's no real precedent for someone resigning in office they haven't held. You kind of can't give up something you don't really have. There's like a weird sort of possession issue, that's according to a top Florida election lawyer who's familiar with Governor Ron DeSantis thinking, DeSantis did not call a special election for it either. So he didn't declare there was a vacancy in the seat.

Incidentally, I do understand that Gaetz made this decision when Trump called him this morning and told him he didn't have the votes and the senators aren't moving. And as I was told, Gaetz fell on his sword. So yes, this was sort of --

SCIUTTO: Ah. So you're saying Gaetz --

CAPUTO: But it was a decision by Gaetz of like, hey, man, votes aren't there, people aren't moving and the information flow -- I'm not quoting here the president-elect, but the information flow has just been a parade of horribles for Gaetz. Everyone can see the writing on the wall.

SCIUTTO: So you're saying you're reporting is that Trump called him and said you got to drop out? It was Trump's call.

CAPUTO: Well, I don't think he actually specifically said that or at least I wasn't told. But I was told he said, you don't have the votes. These senators aren't moving.

SCIUTTO: Right.

CAPUTO: Unquote.

SCIUTTO: Okay.

CAPUTO: Well, there's a message in that.

SCIUTTO: All right. I'm curious now what happened.

[15:10:01]

CAPUTO: I mean, it's a fact, right?

SCIUTTO: Yeah.

CAPUTO: You know, he's just telling him the facts. Yeah.

SCIUTTO: I'm curious now what happens to this House Ethics Report, and, by the way, this new information that CNN reported about the -- about the apparent fact that he had a sexual encounter twice with this 17-year-old, what happens to that report? I know that there's still a Democratic movement here to get it released publicly but does it survive this? And would it survive into the new Congress, or would you have to start a whole new report?

CAPUTO: That's a good question. One of the things that Gaetz had discussed with other people prior to this whole attorney general idea just being sprung upon him, was the idea that maybe he resigns before the new term takes over, and that kills the report. But as you know, with Congress, it can sort of decide to do anything by majority vote. And there was a movement discussion in Congress to have a movement to have the body itself vote on whether to release the report or not.

Matt Gaetz doesn't have a lot of friends in Congress. Some of them he's argued has been caustic, some of them he's earned because he's accused them of being corrupt, because of, you know, some of their very questionable stock trading tactics or penchant for stock trading. So regardless, he's earned those enemies. They're there.

There's always going to be lots of votes against Matt Gaetz. And there is that House Ethics committee report, and were already seeing stuff about it leak out and drip, drip, drip fashion. There were people in Trump's world who said, hey, he should have just fought to release this at the beginning and fought it then, but he didn't do it. And well, here we are.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. One thing that struck me from CNN's reporting regarding that ethics report was that in that meeting yesterday, Republicans position has been -- well, it's not complete yet, so we cant release it, but that a staff member told CNN that it would only take a couple more hours to finish it, that the investigation was done, that basically they were just -- I don't know crossing T's and dotting I's there.

So I mean, it doesn't seem that the Republicans explanation coming out of the meeting was fulsome, shall we say.

CAPUTO: Yeah. Well, yeah. News flash: there's a disingenuous political discussion in Congress in this case by an embattled party that doesn't want embarrassing facts to come out about its attorney general nominee of the president-elect of the GOP. Yeah, I mean, the idea that the House Ethics Committee report wasn't ready to go would really question whether the people working on the House Ethics Committee deserve their paychecks. This thing has gone on for years. If they were unable to print this up, that just strains credulity that it wouldn't be ready.

SCIUTTO: Yeah. You reported that Trump chose Gaetz because while other candidates, they were talking pitching themselves with some lofty legal theories, Gaetz just said, quote, yeah, I'll go over there and I'll start cutting F-ing heads.

So I wonder who might fit that bill, if that's what Trump is looking for in A.G.?

CAPUTO: That's a great question. I would -- I wouldn't want to speculate. Heck, I wouldn't want to get sued by some DOJ lawyers.

What I have learned is that in that conversation between Trump and Gaetz with Elon Musk present and Boris Epshteyn, an adviser to -- a long time adviser to Trump present that what Trump had told Gaetz is these other guys are stiffs. He said he liked Gaetz, and apparently Gaetz had informed him as sources of mine had told me, I'm not sure I'm confirmable.

So Gaetz was aware of how unpopular he is and what a call this was. But they decided to give it the old college try and well, here we are eight days later and down goes Gaetz.

SCIUTTO: So let me ask you this, because there have been a lot of speculation as to how many times, if any Republican senators would be willing to cast public votes defying the president-elect's choices for key cabinet positions. They don't have to do that anymore on Gaetz, because Gaetz is out. Does this make it harder for some of the other, shall we say, controversial choices, Pete Hegseth at DOD, RFK, Jr. at HHS, Tulsi Gabbard at DNI, to get through because now, Republicans haven't given up any of those cards as it were?

CAPUTO: I don't know. You know, if you believe Trump's posture before and Gaetz's, they were going to fight Gaetz's nomination until hell froze over and then they would fight it on the ice and that only lasted eight days.

SCIUTTO: Right. So exactly what the Senate is going to do or able to do, it's difficult to forecast, but it's safe to say that Trump's team at least, Trump is keenly aware that he's got a majority in Congress in the Senate and the house. He has a very robust agenda, a controversial one, especially with immigration and tariffs, and there's only so much time he wants to spend on messy confirmation fights. If it takes his eye off the ball of doing those more important policies and that was pretty clear with the Gaetz case. So what happens with say, Pete Hegseth?

[15:15:00]

I don't know.

SCIUTTO: We'll see. We will see.

Marc Caputo, thanks so much.

CAPUTO: Thanks, Jim. I appreciate you.

SCIUTTO: Still to come, Russia strikes Ukraine with a new and quite scary kind of weapon, a ballistic missile, bigger one. We're live in Kyiv and at the Pentagon with details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Russia says it's fired a new type of weapon on Ukraine in the latest escalation of this war. Look at those pictures there. President Vladimir Putin says the strike which targeted Dnipro was carried out by a new ballistic missile with a non-nuclear hypersonic warhead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VLADIMIR PUTIN, RUSSIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): One of the newest Russian medium range missile systems was tested in combat conditions specifically, a ballistic missile with a non-nuclear hypersonic warhead. Our missile men called it a Oreshnik. The tests were successful. The launch goal was achieved.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: The Pentagon confirmed that Russia warned the U.S. ahead of this missile launch. Ukraine accused Russia of using an intercontinental ballistic missile. CNN obtained these images of debris from Russian missiles fired at Dnipro. Russia says the strike was in response to Ukraine's recent firing of British and French made Storm Shadow missiles, as well as U.S.-made ATACMS missiles at targets inside Russian territory.

Of course, Russia has been striking targets inside Ukraine since it invaded in February 2022.

CNN chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh, he is in the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv.

Nick, I wonder very basic question here. It's a new kind of missile. Did it cause more damage? Did we see damage beyond what we've seen from -- from other munitions fired by Russia?

[15:20:03]

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, that we know of, Jim. Good question, no. The damage we've seen that appeared to have occurred at the Dnipro hit it seems an industrial site, a factory and may even have been hit before. And so, the reports are of three injured, but not huge significant damage.

The damage, I think, is predominantly psychological because the images of the explosion show multiple different projectiles coming down from the sky, from what seems to be one singular point of arrival, which would suggest potentially a missile that had multiple different warheads non-nuclear, clearly, able to hit.

I think its also the fact that the Kremlin are able to spend the day allowing the sort of mystery of what this device was to build, even their foreign ministry spokeswoman taking a press conference where she mysteriously answers a phone call in which he apparently audibly is told not to talk about the ICBM, the intercontinental ballistic missile, and then later in the day, the Kremlin head steps forward and says this is a new hypersonic device, essentially Moscow saying they still have tools in their arsenal that they have not yet reached for that they're able to take now, in response to the escalation by the Biden administration of allowing Ukraine to use ATACMS U.S.-supplied missiles to hit targets inside of Russia.

It's a fast moving pace here of tit for tat, frankly, and we may never really know enough about the Oreshnik to work out exactly how to classify that particular missile. We're entirely dependent on what the Ukrainians or the Americans saw in its brief flight in the sky, and what Vladimir Putin has said about it. A lot of mystery surrounding exactly what the history of the development of this particular device has indeed been. There are many particular derivatives. It might have been associated with.

So what's key here, though, is Putin trying to inject a climate of fear here. And, of course, the warning the U.S. got, seeing something moving that fast towards western Europe would cause significant alarm. And we understand from the Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov, that a phone call was put in 30 minutes before the launch to let the U.S. know what they were doing. So, a stark escalation here, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you a question, Nick, because we'll show those pictures again, the night vision pictures that showed what appeared to be multiple strikes coming down, flashes of light. Is it your understanding those were multiple warheads from that one missile?

WALSH: Well, we simply don't know. But it does appear to from this that it appears to be one singular point from which some of these originate, although at the same time, Ukrainian officials say there were 6 or 7 missiles that flew in roughly at the same time as this faster singular device. So a lot of forensic research will be being done in the site where these indeed landed.

But I think part of the impact of what Russia has done, and at 5:00 this morning, by striking the Dnipro is allow the speculation and the mystery to maintain for a number of hours. It may well be that if this device is as new as they claim, the West don't want to talk about what they know about it or don't know enough about it, anyway. And so, I think that is Putin's trick here to suggest that Russia hasn't totally exhausted the tools in its box, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yeah, they might still be assessing as well.

Nick Paton Walsh in Kyiv, thanks so much.

All right. Let's go to the Pentagon, CNN's Oren Liebermann for more.

Oren, tell us what your understanding is about this new Russian missile.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, we just learned a short time ago that, in fact, what you were looking at in that video is what's known as a MIRV, M-I-R-V, a multiple independently targetable reentry vehicle. That is one ballistic missile that's capable of carrying several warheads.

Pentagon deputy press secretary Sabrina Singh said it was the first time they have seen this type of weapon used, although she didn't publicly acknowledge that it was a MIRV, a multiple warhead missile. And she said it was experimental and an intermediate range ballistic missile.

The reason this is so significant is because it may be, according to two experts with whom I've spoken the first time we have seen a MIRV used in combat. A MIRV is Cold War technology in the U.S. developed it decades ago to be able to use one intercontinental ballistic missile to deliver multiple nuclear warheads at the same time and that is where it was primarily developed, not only by the U.S. and the Soviets, but by the Russians and others. That was the purpose of it.

So to see it used and armed with conventional warheads, which from what were hearing from two U.S. officials and a Western official, is in fact what were looking at in this video is in and of itself, a new escalation coming from Russia. And it is because of the missiles links to nuclear technology and the delivery of nuclear warheads, another form, another step in the nuclear saber rattling we have seen from Russian President Vladimir Putin.

As you pointed out, the U.S. acknowledging that they were given a heads up, quote, briefly before Russia launched this missile. Of course, the U.S. looks very closely for the launch of any ballistic missiles, and certainly a newer type of warhead. So, that brief notification ahead of time is critical to essentially avoiding a massive alarm from the U.S., from the potential launch of a -- of a -- of a very powerful weapon.

[15:25:09]

SCIUTTO: Yeah, because they'll see the launch and they might imagine or be concerned that it was targeting something other than Ukraine, including Europe.

And just to be clear, a MIRV, as I understand it, is designed in part to overwhelm air defenses, is it not? One missile has multiple warheads and therefore harder to take them out.

LIEBERMANN: Yeah, that's absolutely part of the idea behind the design. You have one missile that, as it comes back in, as it reenters from a ballistic trajectory into space and back, it breaks up and goes towards multiple targets first. That means it's more efficient. Second, that means it's harder to intercept. You need more -- a higher density of air defense missiles to be able to intercept that out of the sky.

So there are a number of reasons. These are used, again, according to experts. I've spoken with from the -- from CSIS and elsewhere. This is the first time we have seen a MIRV used in combat, conventionally armed though it is.

SCIUTTO: That footage alarming, no question.

Oren Liebermann, thanks so much.

Another story we're following. The International Criminal Court has issued an arrest warrant for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for alleged war crimes, including using starvation as a method of warfare, as well as crimes against humanity.

This warrant is historic. Netanyahu is the first Israeli leader summoned by an international court for alleged actions against Palestinians and what is now a 76-year-old conflict. The ICC also issued warrants for former Israeli defense minister Yoav Gallant and a top Hamas commander, who was believed to have been killed in a recent Israeli airstrike.

Israel, including the U.S. as well, is not under the ICC's jurisdiction but the 124-member states, including many of Israel's allies, will now have an obligation to arrest Netanyahu or Gallant if they come to their countries.

CNN diplomatic editor Nic Robertson is in Jerusalem.

Nic, I've seen certainly Israeli officials dismiss this. I've seen U.S. officials do the same. But now, for those 124 members, including allies in Europe -- I mean, is it a fact that if Netanyahu or Gallant travel to those countries, now, they could be arrested?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Well, the Dutch foreign minister said, yes, but he would. It's his country where the ICC is. Justin Trudeau, the Canadian prime minister, said yes, they would. That's their obligation. The Irish have also come out, welcoming the decision by the ICC.

We haven't heard from the British and the French and the Germans but yes, absolutely. In theory, they would be obligated to do it. This may cause some sort of smaller tensions among European countries, but I think it's a fair bet that Benjamin Netanyahu isn't going to test it there, unless he has some kind of ultra firm guarantee which will come with a level of political price among those allies and their partners. And I'm talking about Europe but it can be other countries as well.

And this is what we saw happen to Vladimir Putin, who also has an ICC arrest warrant out on his head for war crimes and he avoided going to South Africa to a BRICS summit because South Africa is one of those 124 countries. And he couldn't trust whether or not if he got there, he would be arrested and sent to the Netherlands.

So this I think it puts a big question mark for the prime minister. Does it change his day to day activities here? I doubt it very much. Definitely, in the short term.

SCIUTTO: It's quite a statement. Nic Robertson in Jerusalem, thanks so much.

When we do come back, we're going to be live on Capitol Hill with further reaction to Matt Gaetz's surprise withdrawal from consideration to be the next attorney general.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:32:13]

SCIUTTO: In the seven days as Trump's pick for attorney general, Matt Gaetz consumed a heck of a lot of oxygen, political capital on the Hill.

Now, with his withdrawal, the attention is turning to others, including Pete Hegseth, the former Fox News host who Trump wants to serve as secretary of defense overseeing more than 2 million people in the U.S. military. He held meetings on the Hill today with Republican senators who so far seem to be lining up behind him, that despite new and disturbing revelations in a police report obtained by CNN involving a woman who says Hegseth raped her in 2017 as both were attending a Republican conference.

The woman, Jane Doe, told police Hegseth was, quote, giving off the creeper vibe and that she believes something may have been slipped into her drink, she says. He also took her phone from her hands, blocked the door with his body and that she remembers saying "no" several times.

Hegseth says the encounter was consensual, that there was always conversation and always consensual contact that she showed signs of early regret. He did later enter into a settlement, a financial one, and confidentially a confidentiality agreement -- a confidentiality agreement with her.

So for more now on next steps for Gaetz and Hegseth, let's go to CNN congressional reporter Lauren Fox.

So, first, on Gaetz, this ethics report, where does it go now? I mean, does it live? Does it die? Does it -- is it basically up to a question of what happens with a vote on the House floor?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it really lies with the question of whether or not Gaetz returns to Congress or not. Right now, we don't know the answer ultimately if he may choose to come and serve in the 119th Congress, he resigned from the 118th Congress, but he was elected to his seat. And so, I think there's still a question right now, does he decide at the last minute to come back to Capitol Hill? If he did, that may incentivize the Ethics Committee to continue its work, given the fact that he's going to be a sitting member of the House of Representatives, the job and intent of the ethics committee is to police their own.

Some of the apprehension from Republicans about releasing the ethics report was that this was someone who was no longer a member of Congress. So if he comes back to the Hill, perhaps that changes the calculation. If he decides to just live in private life, I think that the incentive for Republicans to release that report probably goes down even more, given the fact he's not vying to be the top law enforcement agent in the country.

But I think that's really at this point, a hypothetical, and it's not clear exactly what happens next.

SCIUTTO: Okay, so Pete Hegseth, the nominee for DOD, has his own, facing his own allegations of sexual assault in this case, investigated by police.

[15:35:02]

We should note they did not pursue charges, but the details, as we reported, said just a few moments ago, are quite alarming.

What are you hearing about Hegseth on the Hill? Are Republican senators saying we couldn't go with Gaetz, but we can go with Hegseth?

FOX: Yeah. I mean, I think members really view this in their Consent and Advise and consent role as two separate nominations. You know, I think there's a question of, you know, if one person if they don't confirm one person or one person bows out, does that make it easier for another person? And when you're having conversations with Republican senators, what they tell you is that there is a process for each individual nominee.

In fact, Republican Senator John Thune, who will be the next Republican leader, made that point to reporters this afternoon after Gaetz had dropped out, saying that they have to go through the process for Hegseth, just like they were planning on going through that process for Matt Gaetz.

Now, what's interesting is you have some senators who are expressing some concerns. You had Kevin Cramer from North Dakota earlier telling our colleague Manu Raju that, yes, he did have some concerns about what was in that report, what was reported earlier this morning by CNN. Meanwhile, you have others who say, you know, he wasn't charged therefore this is a non-issue.

But I think the underscoring reality and what's starting to set in on Capitol Hill is how difficult these confirmation processes are on Capitol Hill. The Senate does not take their role lightly. Senators will have hearings. They will have public testimony.

They will submit to these nominees' questions for the record that these nominees then have to return back to senators, and they will keep asking questions until each individual senator is satisfied. That is part of the process. And just because these are Donald Trump's nominees and many Republicans do believe the president should have who he wants in these cabinet positions, these are serious jobs.

And leading the Pentagon is a very serious job. And therefore, you hear from a lot of Republicans, they do not want to definitively say in this moment that they are with Hegseth until they get all of the information to come.

SCIUTTO: No question. Well, we know you'll keep on top of it. Lauren Fox on the Hill, thank you so much.

Well, you remember President-elect Trump campaigned on a pledge to impose tariffs of 60 percent or more on all products or many products imported from China. But China is a major market for Elon Musk, who invested significant resources, a heck of a lot of money in Trump's reelection.

CNN's Will Ripley has more on how Trump's approach to U.S.-China relations could create friction with his billionaire backer.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WILL RIPLEY, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Elon Musk was making moves in China years before stepping into U.S. politics. China is Tesla's second biggest market.

ELON MUSK, TECH BILLIONAIRE: We are looking for the very best talent in China.

RIPLEY: Tesla's Shanghai Gigafactory churns out nearly a million cars a year, the company's most productive plant. Musk built strong ties with Chinese leaders, making Tesla the first foreign automaker with full factory ownership in China.

Musk even got the government to officially use Tesla vehicles.

MUSK: We intend to make -- continue making a significant investment and increasing the investment in China.

RIPLEY: And he's not done yet. A $200 million mega battery factory is coming soon to Shanghai.

MUSK: Fight, fight, fight. Vote, vote, vote. Thank you.

RIPLEY: But in the Trump 2.0 era, Musk may find himself navigating tricky terrain. President-elect Donald Trump is promising a 60 percent tariff or more on Chinese imports, a move that could create friction for Tesla's China operations.

LEV NACHMAN, POLITICAL ANALYST: This is the classic conflict of interest with having someone like Elon Musk in politics. He's not a politician.

RIPLEY: And he's definitely not a China hawk. That could put him at odds with Trump's incoming cabinet, widely seen as the toughest on Beijing in U.S. history.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): They allow the Chinese communist party to gain access to all of the private data.

RIPLEY: Take Secretary of State nominee Marco Rubio, a staunch critic of China, sanctioned twice by Beijing.

Rubio has championed human rights in Hong Kong and democracy in Taiwan, positions that clash with Musk, criticized for these comments last year, seen as siding with authoritarian Beijing over the self- governing island.

MUSK: The policy has been to sort of reunite Taiwan with China. From this standpoint, you know, maybe it is analogous to like Hawaii.

RIPLEY: Two power players, two very different views on China, both potentially shaping policy in the second, Trump administration.

NACHMAN: The potential for fallout is very real.

RIPLEY: Some say Musk may serve as a bridge between Beijing and Washington. Others warn his business interests could outweigh U.S. national priorities, creating more problems than solutions.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RIPLEY (on camera): The real wild card here is President-elect Donald Trump.

[15:40:03]

He'll likely be getting completely opposite advice on China from Musk and Rubio, so nobody really has a clue as to which way he's going to go. And that unpredictability, that uncertainty is really being felt right now on both sides of the Taiwan Strait.

Will Ripley, CNN, Taipei.

SCIUTTO: Who will win out in that disagreement? We'll see.

And we'll be right back with more.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:43:31]

SCIUTTO: I'm not here to fight about bathrooms. That was the message from Congresswoman-elect Sarah McBride, the soon to be first transgender member of Congress now heading to Washington, already fixated on which restroom in the Capitol she'll be able to use.

McBride's new colleague, Republican Congresswoman Nancy Mace, is working to ban McBride and other transgender women from any women's bathroom in any federal building across the U.S.

Speaker Mike Johnson backed Mace's push, at least for inside the halls of Congress, saying this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Let me be unequivocally clear, a man is a man and a woman is a woman. And a man cannot become a woman.

That said, I also believe that's what Scripture teaches, what I just said, but I also believe that we treat everybody with dignity. And so we can do and believe all those things at the same time. (END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: With me now is someone who knows what it's like to be the first transgender lawmaker in her case, in her state house. That is Zooey Zephyr. She just won reelection in the state of Montana.

Thanks so much for joining.

ZOOEY ZEPHYR (D), MONTANA STATE HOUSE: Thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: First, I want to give you a chance to respond to Speaker Johnson there. What's your view?

ZEPHYR: You know, I think there are many ways people try to dress up their hate of trans people. You can see Congresswoman Mace's outright vitriol when she went on far right media and said that it was, quote, offensive, that McBride views herself as an equal to Nancy Mace.

[15:45:05]

And on the other hand, you have Speaker Johnson saying, oh, we can be dignified, we can be kind, but I'm not going to acknowledge trans people whatsoever. That kind of hate is trying to fluff over what we see as discriminatory policies, like we saw in Montana when they wrote trans people out of code entirely.

SCIUTTO: Let me read congresswoman-elect had to say about Mace's resolution specifically. She wrote, I'm not here to fight about bathrooms. I'm here to fight for Delawareans who -- and to bring down costs facing families. Like all members, I will follow the rules as outlined by Speaker Johnson, even if I disagree with them.

I wonder how whether you think that was the right response from her. She's basically saying, I'm going to focus on the issues, and if that's the rule he does, you know, I'll live by it?

ZEPHYR: You know, we live in a moment of politics where there is a lot of attempts to generate outrage, and we can see that, you know, Nancy Mace doing what she did and doing fundraising off of that and rightly in many ways, Congresswoman-elect McBride is focused on doing the work for Delaware.

But it's also important to remember that so much hate that we see towards LGBTQ people in this country, so much hate and attempts to sort of fracture under the underpinnings of democratic institutions come from treating the normalcy of government and saying, oh, it's just fine. I will try to go on.

And so I think its important for Congresswoman McBride to balance both the need to do the work that she was sent there to do, while also balancing that we can't acquiesce to every attack the right has on LGBTQ people, because it is going to be a long line of attacks that she is going to see and that LGBTQ broadly are going to see across this country.

SCIUTTO: As you know, some Democrats took Trump's election win and Republicans election win as a sign that they themselves need to rein in conversations about trans issues. I'm sure you saw Massachusetts Congressman Seth Moulton's comments after the election about specifically not wanting his little girls to play sports against trans athletes.

You met with members of Congress yesterday. Are you worried that Democrats might be more wary of defending trans issues in general but McBride specifically?

ZEPHYR: You know, I think Congresswoman McBride has a wonderful relationship with her long history of politics in Delaware. I trust her ability to maintain support from her Democratic colleagues. I think what I am worried about is any party that imagines that we look at hesitation around civil rights and that we shift our policies based on polling on which communities deserve to be treated equally.

You know, we should have learned this lesson in 2004 when people started to back off gay rights and even President Obama himself, the senator at the time, backing off a bit, we do not lead as a party with polling when it comes to civil rights. Civil rights movements are led with a core understanding that LGBTQ people, like all minority groups in this country, deserve respect and dignity and we should strive to fight for that regardless of what people are going to try to demonize us about.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this. Just in light of the way some folks look at this issue differently, right? Do you believe that for some Americans, particularly when it relates to decisions by minors, that they believe the current discussion is moving too quickly for them? How do you respond to concerns like that?

ZEPHYR: You know, I think about is when it comes to healthcare decisions, we operate under -- the first core principle is that parents love their children, and parents when they have a transgender child, just like if they had a child who had any medical condition, they would do their best to try to figure out what is right to do. And parents, when it comes to those decisions turn to their doctors and they go to their doctors and say, what is the right path forward, which is why you have the American Academy of Pediatrics saying again and again this care is medically necessary, this care improves quality of life.

And so to those folks, I would say be wary of anyone on the right, anyone generally who is going to try to politicize and insert a government in between a parent and their doctor and a patient. That's not what we should be doing in this country.

SCIUTTO: Zooey Zephyr, good to have you on. Thanks so much for taking the time.

ZEPHYR: Thank you for having me.

SCIUTTO: Coming up, Australia is now considering a ban on anyone under 16 from using social media at all. We're going to explain why and how they might do it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:53:03]

SCIUTTO: Australia is considering a ban on anyone under the age of 16 using social media. Officials there call it a world leading reform to protect children from harmful content online. The legislation follows several high profile cases of children taking their own lives after bullying online.

Hanako Montgomery reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HANAKO MONTGOMERY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For all the positive connections, the joy social media can create it can also quickly strip it away, destroy it forever.

KELLY O'BRIEN, MOTHER OF CHARLOTTE O'BRIEN: I will miss your hugs, your kisses, your laugh, your beautiful, beautiful smile.

MONTGOMERY: In September, 12-year-old Australian girl Charlotte O'Brien took her own life after years being bullied on social media. Her parents quickly joined a political fight to protect children from online harm. The Australian government says the best way to do that is to ban anyone under 16 from using social media.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: Social media is doing social harm to our young Australians and I am calling time on it. The safety and mental health of our young people has to be a priority.

MONTGOMERY: Under new legislation introduced to Australia's parliament, there would be consequences for social media companies caught systematically breaching the age restriction and other safety measures, fines reaching tens of millions of dollars.

But children or parents won't be punished for breaking the new rules. Instead the government says the ban will help moms and dads to say no to young people who want to stay online.

BEN KIOKO, 14-YEAR-OLD SOCIAL MEDIA SUER: Yeah, so being autistic, I have a really, really hard time connecting with others and being, you know, doing that online makes it a lot easier. Some experts to say that a catch all approach may not be helpful.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Even though the age is really fundamentally important that we need to get right, what we're talking about when we say were going to introduce a ban by age, is that it negates the fact that young people have very, very different levels of maturity.

[15:55:14]

MONTGOMERY: But advocates of the ban point to age limits on alcohol, gambling and smoking, arguing social media can be equally damaging for those too young to use it.

Hanako Montgomery, CNN. (END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: That poor family, quite an effort there in Australia. Perhaps an example to follow.

Thanks so much for joining me today. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

"QUEST MEANS BUSINESS" is up next.