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Interview With State Rep. Leigh Finke (D-MN); Gunman Kills UnitedHealthcare CEO; Supreme Court Hears Arguments Over Gender- Affirming Care for Minors. Aired 11:30a-12p ET

Aired December 04, 2024 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:30:03]

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: But it's unclear when the justices will reveal their opinion.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: All right, thank you so much.

So let's get some legal analysis.

First off, Elie, to you. As Paula just noted, there's history being made, the first transgender attorney arguing before the Supreme Court. And I'm wondering what you make of the argument that she just laid out that's being made right now that there are kids such as boys with a condition called Klinefelter's, where they don't make testosterone in puberty, like their bodies are supposed to.

They get testosterone treatment, but girls who want to transition can't get that same treatment in 26 states, including Tennessee, which is at the center of this. How compelling is that argument?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, so that's exactly what the solicitor general, who just wrapped up her argument, was arguing against this Tennessee law, against this ban.

The argument is, this is sex-based discrimination. If a boy can get a certain treatment, but a girl can't, that is sex-based discrimination. That's the argument. I think the bad news for the solicitor general and for the Biden administration is that Chief John Roberts does not seem to be on board.

And that's really important here, because not only is he the chief justice, but he was a swing vote in the most recent case that touched on this issue. Back in 2020, the Supreme Court held that it is unconstitutional to fire somebody because they are gay or because they are transgender.

And what was surprising about that ruling is that Chief John Roberts and Justice Gorsuch joined with the liberal bloc to make a majority in that case. So the two justices we have to watch here, Chief John Roberts and Gorsuch, Chief John Roberts, as Paula just said, does not seem to be with the solicitor general.

He seems to think that this case is different from the employment case. And Justice Gorsuch did not tip his hand. He did not ask a single question, so kind of hard to see where he is going to fall on this spectrum.

BROWN: What do you make of that?

SETH BERENZWEIG, ATTORNEY: Well, I think that one of the reasons why this case is historic is because it's going to help set out the legal lens through which these modern cases are going to be projected.

And the records on the medical testimony are directly in conflict. There's been a lot of attention provided, rightly so, by the media and the legal community with respect to the difficulties in connection with gender dysphoria.

There's also ample medical record evidence in front of the Supreme Court by physicians such as Jamie Reed, a doctor at the St. Louis hospital for children, who has provided information, as well as other physicians to the Supreme Court, talking about how when children make a certain decision with regard to gender transition, if they later in their young adulthood feel that they regret that decision, then that can have a very impactful effect on someone as well.

Our heart goes out to the complexity of this issue. But when we project there through the legal lens, one of the things that's going to be important is to really fundamentally understand that at the end of the day this is in our system of federalism an issue that's best left to the states and their judgment, because every state is different, every state legislature is different.

I also believe that there is an interesting aspect to this case which is very important about whether or not they're going to apply a so- called intermediate level of scrutiny. I think the Supreme Court's going to accept and support this statute regardless, because, even under an intermediate heightened level of scrutiny, it has to be substantially related to an important state interest.

And I think that you're going to have a majority on the court that will rule that the state has this authority. So it's a very heart- rendering and very complex issue. And I think that the Supreme Court will ultimately at the end of the day support the state and the enactment of this statute which will have ripple effects throughout the United States.

BROWN: It certainly will. And that is why we are seeing so much activity outside of the Supreme Court right now, where protests have been unfolding.

Lucy, I want to bring you in because you're right there where all the action is.

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right in the thick of it, And the crowd has been growing. There is a smaller, but vocal opposition group on the other side who are protesting gender-affirming care for minors, but a very large, loud, colorful crowd right here that has been trying to defend this critical health care for people. How the Supreme Court rules will impact not only the lives of young

people, young transgender Americans in Tennessee, but far beyond that. And we have seen a lot of allies also travel down here to D.C.

I want to bring in Tony, who came here from Philadelphia.

Tony, what made you want to travel all the way here to have your voice heard? Why was it important to be here?

TONY DELGUERCIO, RALLIER: I have been a queer ally to the trans community since I was a kid.

I have so many trans and nonbinary friends that rely on care like this. I have seen firsthand how lifesaving it can be. And it's just really a shame that lawmakers and judges in this country feel like they should strip the rights away from a marginalized community that is so beautiful and so loving and so vibrant.

So I just really thought it was important to come down here from Philly and support them.

[11:35:00]

KAFANOV: For your friends who receive this kind of care, what would it mean not to be able to get access to it anymore?

DELGUERCIO: Well, I think it's a slippery slope, right? Now it's minors. They say they're not going to touch it for folks over 18.

But we have seen this before, right, in the fights for our rights of the LGBTQ+ community. So losing access to that care could honestly mean life or death for people. I know people that have transitioned fully, that have gone on HRC, that have gotten surgery, some who haven't.

Everyone's journey is different, right? And we shouldn't have blanket bans going against doctors and medical professionals, when all major medical organizations support this care for minors and adults.

KAFANOV: Thank you so much, Tony.

DELGUERCIO: Yes, of course.

KAFANOV: One of the many voices who have come here to speak out, and we're hearing people cheer right now.

Two of the families that we have been following from Arizona, parents with transgender children, have come out here to speak, to defend their rights. They are about to go up there to give a presentation.

Such an important case, one that is going to impact so many families all across America -- back to you.

BROWN: It certainly will. A lot of passion all sides of this issue. Thank you so much, Lucy. Keygan, I want to go to you for more of a personal perspective. Your

organization released this peer-reviewed study concluding these state- level bans on gender-affirming care for transgender children were tied to an up to 72 percent increase in suicide attempts among transgender and nonbinary youth.

So how might this case impact that?

KEYGAN MILLER, PUBLIC TRAINING MANAGER, THE TREVOR PROJECT: So we have to look at the fact that this case impacts trans and nonbinary people all across the country. It's not just those in Tennessee, first of all, right?

And what we're hearing on our crisis lines is young people who are reaching out to us and saying, this is impacting my mental health and well-being. I'm concerned that I'm not going to be able to receive the health care that I have been receiving or get the health care that I want to have going forward, that my family is going to have to make sacrifices in order to get me that health care.

We're hearing from families that are saying, do I have to move? Do I have to travel far distances to get these pieces of care? And these families should be able to make that decision in their own local community with doctors they know and trust. And this ban is saying, no, you can't do that.

BROWN: Representative Finke, I want to point out that you became the first out transgender member of Minnesota's state legislature in 2022.

Look, people feel really passionate about this. And there are many Americans who do have concerns about youths, minors getting a sex change, because they would argue, look, they're so young, they don't really know what they're doing. Wait until they're adults, so they can really make that decision.

And as Seth just pointed out, one of the doctors that the justices are -- one of the arguments from a doctor the justices are considering said, look, it's really hard for youths to reverse that once -- if they grow up and they regret it, it's really hard to reverse it. What do you say to those Americans, some of who may be watching, who have those concerns?

STATE REP. LEIGH FINKE (D-MN): I mean, I would start by telling them that their concerns are built on a narrative that is not reflective of the individual experience of trans people and our lives and our health care journey, right?

We are 1 percent of the country. About 1 to 2 percent of people who transition will go on to detransition, right? We are overwhelmingly satisfied with our life. Gender-affirming care is health care. It is health care that has saved the lives of countless trans people, including myself.

The idea that we want to take what is complicated, emotional health care decisions that are among the most difficult choices these families are making, we want to take those choices away from parents and away from doctors and give them to lawmakers and give them to the courts, I think that is the wrong -- not just the wrong legal decision.

And I do hope that the court understands that these are health care decisions families should be making. But it is also incredibly discriminatory and emotional.

I mean, it isn't passionate. I'm not passionate about this issue. This issue is who I am to the core of my identity. Who I am and why I am alive is because I had access to this health care.

BROWN: As a child?

FINKE: Not as a child.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Yes, tell us about your personal journey.

FINKE: I would love to.

So, when I was about 15, I think I started knocking on this door, right? I got -- I started to understand a little bit about who I was. But that was the '90s. And I didn't know a trans person. I never even heard of the word transgender until about 2013, right?

What we have is a community who has always existed, health care that has been being prescribed for 50-plus years, right? We know that puberty blockers, what they do and what they don't do, because we prescribe them all the time to people who are not trans. We know what hormone prescriptions do to kids, because we prescribe them to kids all the time who are not trans.

If I had had an opportunity and grew up in an environment -- right, I grew up in suburban Minnesota in the '90s. There wasn't access to transgender education. There wasn't access to health care. But if I had had that opportunity, I would have taken it.

[11:40:00]

BROWN: Well, just to help our viewers understand -- I think this is important -- what was it like for you when you were 15 and you started -- you said it came knocking on your door.

FINKE: Yes.

BROWN: And then what was that like for you? You didn't get the health care that is now banned under some of these laws, 26 states.

FINKE: Yes.

BROWN: So was it tough?

FINKE: Yes, I mean, it was -- it's very difficult. I'm sure Keygan understands. It's very difficult to describe the experience of being somebody who doesn't have the answer to what the question is, right? I didn't -- I describe it as discovering gravity, right? Like, once you know the answer, you recognize it has always been true.

But before we understood gravity, we just didn't even know what the question was, right? I was a kid who was confused, who didn't necessarily fit in, who had a lot of issues around my identity, and didn't know where to go with those. And I didn't know who to ask. And I just lived in this little suburban space in Minnesota.

And, later, when those questions surfaced, and I had an opportunity to answer them, to explore them in real time with people who cared for me, the answer became clear. And once I knew the answer, I saw immediately the answer had always been obvious, right? I just did not have the question.

BERENZWEIG: I would say that is such important information that we need to reflect upon.

But this is also the kind of information that state legislatures are uniquely situated and structured to be able to take into consideration. And every state legislature has the duty to be able to look at this kind of information, and then as their elected officials or the people that live in that state apply the determinations, based upon what they believe is consistent with their constituents.

There are some states like Minnesota that have provided these kinds of statutes, and we have to very much respect that. There are other states like Tennessee that take a different approach. But we can't nationalize this, because under our system of federalism and under our legal system, where we put this through the lens of making sure that people make the determinations based upon the local judgments of the legislators, the question really is what works best within that jurisdiction.

And you're going to have justices here that are going to end up supporting the statute because that's what this state wants.

BROWN: I want to just quickly go to you, Keygan, on this because I think it's important.

I heard you say during the break that you were going to move to Minnesota.

MILLER: Yes.

BROWN: You wanted to because it's considered safe haven for transgender people. What do you say to this argument from Seth that it should be up to the state?

MILLER: I think we're really talking about access to care. And what we're saying is that a certain portion of Americans are not able to have this access to care.

When I first came out 17 years ago, I was living in Ohio. I would have had to travel about six hours to access routine medical care that I needed as a trans person. And to say that families are going to be put under that burden just because of one state that they live in is ludicrous.

And so what we're saying is, I'm sorry, you have a trans child, you're not welcome in this state. And I don't think that's something that any parent, any family should have to face.

BROWN: All right, thank you. We got to go.

(CROSSTALK)

BERENZWEIG: Go ahead. No.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: We already went way over. Thank you so much. I thought that that was a really important conversation, I hope illuminating for our viewers as well.

Any moment, I want to note, the New York City Police Department is slated to have a news conference about that shooting of a health care CEO in Manhattan. The suspect is still on the run. We will bring that -- oh, it's actually live right now. Let's take a listen.

(JOINED IN PROGRESS)

JESSICA TISCH, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: ... stage of our investigation to be a brazen, targeted attack.

This does not appear to be a random act of violence. The victim was in New York City to speak at an investor conference. It appears the suspect was lying in wait for several minutes. And as the victim was walking to the conference hotel, the suspect approached from behind and fired several rounds, striking the victim at least once in the back and at least once in the right calf.

Many people passed the suspect, but he appeared to wait for his intended target. The suspect fled first on foot, then on an e-bike, and was last seen in Central Park on Center Drive early this morning. The victim was removed to Roosevelt Hospital, where he was pronounced.

We have been in touch with his family, his friends and his colleagues, and they are very much in our thoughts and prayers at this hour. The full investigative efforts of the New York City Police Department are well under way, and we will not rest until we identify and apprehend the shooter in this case.

The women and men of the NYPD take enormous pride in the work that they do each day and each night to drive down crime and violence in our city. Right now, we are asking the public for your help. If you have any information about this case, call Crime Stoppers at 800-577- TIPS. We have increased the reward in this case to $10,000.

[11:45:02] I want to be clear. At this time, every indication is that this was a premeditated, preplanned, targeted attack. Millions of people will be enjoying the tree lighting tonight, among other holiday events. And the NYPD will be out there with them keeping them safe.

For some preliminary details about today's tragic incident, I pass it over to our chief of detectives, Chief Joe Kenny.

JOSEPH KENNY, NYPD CHIEF OF DETECTIVES: Thank you, Commissioner.

The information I'm about to give you is preliminary, as our investigation is continuing.

This morning, at 6:46 a.m., patrol officers from Midtown North Precinct responded to a 911 call of a person shot in front of the Hilton Hotel located at 1335 Avenue of the Americas. This is between West 53rd Street and West 54th Street.

At 6:48 a.m., officers arrive and find the victim, Brian R. Thompson, a 50-year-old male, on the sidewalk in front of the Hilton with gunshot wounds to his back and leg. Mr. Thompson was removed by EMS to Roosevelt Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 7:12 a.m.

Mr. Thompson is the CEO of UnitedHealthcare and resides in Minnesota. Detectives from Night Watch, Midtown North Detective Squad and Manhattan South Homicide responded to the scene and began their investigation. What we know is that the shooter arrived at the location foot about five minutes prior to the victim's arrival.

He stands alongside the building line as numerous other people and pedestrians pass him by. From video, we see, at 6:44 a.m., the victim is walking alone towards the Hilton after exiting his hotel across the street. We believe the victim was headed to the Hilton Hotel to attend the UnitedHealth Group investors conference that was scheduled to start at 8:00 a.m.

The shooter appears to be a light-skinned male. He's wearing a light brown or cream-colored jacket, a blackface mask, black and white sneakers, and a very distinctive gray backpack. The shooter steps onto the sidewalk from behind the car. He ignores numerous other pedestrians, approaches the victim from behind and shoots him in the back.

The shooter then walks toward the victim and continues to shoot. It appears that the gun malfunctions, as he clears the jam and begins to fire again. The shooter then flees on foot northbound into an alleyway between 54th Street and 55th Street.

Once at West 55th Street, the shooter continues to walk westbound on the Avenue of the Americas, where he gets onto an electric e-city bike and rides northbound on the Avenue of the Americas towards Central Park, where, at 6:48 a.m., we have the shooter riding this bike into Central Park at Center Drive.

At the scene, we recover three live 9-millimeter rounds and three discharged 9-millimeter shell casings. The motive for this murder currently is unknown, but based on the evidence we have so far, it does appear that the victim was specifically targeted, but at this point we do not know why. This does not appear to be a random act of violence.

We are seeking information from the public to help identify the shooter. As the commissioner said, we have up the reward of up to $10,000 for information. You are urged to contact Crime Stoppers at 1- 800-577-TIPS. All information will be kept anonymous. Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, we will going to open it up to a couple of questions.

We're going to start off with Shimon, CNN.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, SENIOR CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So it's about an hour and 20 minutes before the start of the conference. Is there any indication that he was going to meet someone? Because it's pretty early. Is he on his way to meet someone there at the conference?

KENNY: He leaves the hotel dressed like he's going to be attending a conference. We're working with his co-workers and other people that he planned on attending the conference with to get that information.

But as of right now, he's in charge of the conference, so we believe he was getting there to help set up.

PROKUPECZ: OK, and then just the city bike, if I may. Do we know where that city bike is now? Does he dock it or does he keep riding it?

KENNY: We're still tracking video. The last we see with him on that bike is in Central Park.

PROKUPECZ: Is there a way to track that bike?

KENNY: There are GPSes on those bikes. We will be working with the company.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to move over. (OFF-MIC)

QUESTION: (OFF-MIC) Were any words exchanged? If so, what were the words? And I'm told a cell phone was recovered in alleyway on his escape route. Does that appear to be connected to (OFF-MIC)

KENNY: We're working through that cell phone. Obviously, we will be processing it forensically.

And as far as words being exchanged, we do not have audio of the incident. We only have the regular video.

QUESTION: But nothing from witnesses?

KENNY: Nothing from -- well, there was one witness standing right next to the victim when he was shot. We're still trying to identify that victim -- excuse me, excuse me -- that witness.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (OFF-MIC)

QUESTION: Thank you.

Chief, was he checked into the hotel across the street alone? Was he in the city alone? Was he accompanied by anybody? Did he have any known enemies or anyone that you have been able to find so far?

KENNY: Like I said, we're reaching out to law enforcement in Minnesota and we're also interviewing his co-workers and family members to see if there have been any specific threats against him in the past.

[11:50:02]

As far as who was he in the hotel with, we're doing a search warrant in his hotel room right now that might lead us -- give some more information.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (OFF-MIC)

QUESTION: A couple of questions. Based on the surveillance we have seen on this individual, do you feel like he's professional? (OFF-MIC)

KENNY: I will answer the part about whether or not he's a professional, that we have no way of knowing that.

From watching the video, it does seem that he's proficient in the use of firearms, as he was able to clear the malfunctions pretty quickly. But as far as the tree lighting, I will leave that to Chief Maddrey.

JEFFREY MADDREY, CHIEF OF DEPARTMENT, NEW YORK CITY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Yes. Good morning, Dean.

Just really quick. This incident will not affect the tree lighting. The tree lighting is slated to start at 7:00 p.m. The show, the actual lighting of the tree, will be close to 10:00, actually 9:55 p.m. We will have a massive police presence out there around Rockefeller Center from 52nd Street all the way down to 47th Street.

We will have plainclothes out there, a plainclothes detail out there. We will have our CRC assets, our Strategic Response Group assets. We will have our Intel Division out there, a lot of assets out there to make sure people can come out and have a good time. And we're going to have additional police officers in the subways as well so people can take mass transit to make it easier to travel into the city and enjoy the tree.

This is a terrible event, but we're going to go on and people are going to enjoy the tree lighting tonight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, we will move on to (OFF-MIC)

QUESTION: I wonder if you could tell me, the mayor said that there was evidence recovered at the scene that would indicate that this was not a random event. I wonder if you could tell me what that evidence was.

And by looking at the gun, it appears that there's a silencer on the gun. Was there a silencer on the gun? And does this indicate not only that it was premeditated, but this is somebody who knew his way around guns and might have been a professional?

KENNY: Yes, once again, we won't know that until we complete our investigation and identify the shooter or recover that firearm.

You see a glimpse of the gun in video, so we're not able to make a determination whether or not a silencer was used on that quick glimpse of video. We can't tell it from that little glimpse of video. I'm not going to commit to saying that at this time. That will be part of our investigation.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIC)

KENNY: There's a cell phone recovered in the alleyway, and, once again, we will process that forensically and see if it comes back to this shooting.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIC)

KENNY: Once again, this investigation is less than five hours' old. That will be part of our investigation.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Chief, do we know when Thompson arrived in New York City? My understanding is he was staying close by. (OFF-MIC)

KENNY: As of right now, based on the current video that we do have, it doesn't appear that they crossed paths. And he arrived in New York on Monday.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. We're going to take two or three more. (OFF-MIC)

QUESTION: Chief, did he typically travel with a security detail? And even though it's early, is there anything to indicate that there had been issues with, let's say, a patient who was denied coverage either back in Minnesota or more recently someone who lives here.

KENNY: From speaking to other employees that traveled with him to New York, doesn't seem that he had a security detail. He left the hotel by himself, was walking, didn't seem like he had any issues at all. So I don't think he -- he did not have a security detail.

QUESTION: And as far as denying coverage, I know that's typically an issue with these major companies. Any reason to believe he had been the subject of a threat?

KENNY: Once again, we're looking at everything. We're looking at his social media. We are interviewing employees. We are interviewing family members. We will be speaking to law enforcement in Minnesota.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (OFF-MIC)

QUESTION: Sorry. I was just going to ask if any cursory look at any social media, whether it's the company, whether it's his personal social media, his family. Is there anything obvious that sticks out at this early stage in the investigation?

KENNY: We have not uncovered anything at this time. The investigation is still too early.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to go last question over here with Jake.

QUESTION: How's it going?

With the suspect still at large, lastly in Central Park, are you urging New Yorkers to avoid the park? Is the NYPD deploying its drones? I know they recently started doing that in the park. And then also, I was wondering, is there any indication when he gets this city bike that he's a city bike member, right?

Like, sometimes, if you're not a member, you can pay to use it. I don't know if you're able to tell...

(CROSSTALK)

MADDREY: The chief of detectives will answer the part about the city bike.

But in terms of we're -- we're encouraging New Yorkers to go about their daily lives and their daily business, but to be alert. We put the picture out. You're putting the picture out. We want people to take a look. If they see anything suspicious, if they hear anything suspicious, we ask them to call 911 and reach out to our detectives.

[11:55:03]

With an incident like this, of course, we put a heavy deployment into Manhattan. We put additional resources out. We have the drones up. We have aviation out. We have canine out. When an incident like this happens, we don't spare any expense. We put all of our resources out there to support the chief of detective's mission and to keep New Yorkers safe.

So we will have a massive presence out there around the tree lighting, but throughout Manhattan as well, until more information develops and we're able to support the chief of detectives and what he needs to make a quick arrest.

KENNY: As far as where he got the city bike, we're still working that through. Like I said, we're pulling video from numerous locations, numerous sources.

And we have him on our timeline walking, and what we're very fortunate is he has that very distinctive gray backpack on. So we see him on one video clip walking and then another source of video him riding that bike. So we don't have video or witness confirmation how he obtained that bike.

QUESTION: (OFF-MIC)

KENNY: A cell phone was recovered. We will confirm that later on down if we do our forensic examination.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, everyone. This concludes our press conference. Thank you for the time and attention.

BROWN: All right, we just heard from officials there in New York City about the killing of this UnitedHealthcare CEO from the suspect who officials just said was lying in wait, approached the CEO from behind and fired several rounds.

Officials there saying that there is every indication that this was premeditated, even saying that several people were walking by the suspect before he unleashed, fired several rounds on this UnitedHealthcare CEO. There's still a manhunt under way right now we just heard officials talking about. They are pleading for the public's help trying to find this person, who they said initially fled on foot and then e-bike.

To note, they said that the e-bikes there in the city have GPS trackers. So that's something that they're working on trying to gather all the information.

But I want to go straight to Brynn Gingras, who is right there on the scene, where they're doing forensics or trying to find any clues, Brynn, as to who this person is, right?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely.

And it seems to me, listening to that news conference with you, Pam, is that police really don't know who that person is and they don't know exactly where that person went, because it's pretty early, only five hours into this investigation, that they're already pleading for the public to come forward, give us help, there's a $10,000 reward.

It doesn't mean police don't know anything. There were some key moments in there that are giving them clues, at least giving us clues as well, as where they are in this investigation. And some of those, you pointed out, but the fact that they recovered a cell phone, they are now using that cell phone and are trying to get forensics on it to see who might have owned that cell phone.

That e-bike, that is a big detail. So after this shooting occurred, police say that they believe this person, who they have been able to actually identify because that person was wearing a backpack, they're able to show that person jumped on an e-bike. Those e-bikes have GPS, so they're trying to figure out exactly where this person rented the electric bike from and where they headed to before ditching that e- bike or where possibly it might went.

So some of the major clues coming in, but some of them also just of what the suspect was wearing and also, as you pointed out, Pam, the fact that person appears to have been waiting for several minutes, we're learning from sources, about 10 minutes or so in front of that hotel, letting other people pass by before hitting that intended target, which is that CEO, Brian Thompson of UnitedHealthcare, Pam.

BROWN: Yes, that's right.

OK, Brynn, thank you.

And again, officials describing this person, we're seeing the pictures here on the screen, as a light-skinned male wearing that gray backpack, although, Charles Ramsey, to bring you in, given how premeditated this appears to be, it's very easy for this person to strip off the backpack and the clothes, change clothes, and to evade authorities, because so far this person is still on the run, right?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Yes. No, you're right.

It's easy for a person to change their appearance, but they do have some things in terms of the evidence that's been collected so far that may lead them to a suspect.

One is whether or not that cell phone, of course, has anything to do with this particular case, but they recovered six -- well, three shell casings and three live rounds. Apparently, there was a jam. So they will be testing that for touch DNA to see whether or not they can get anything at all from that.

As it was mentioned before, the e-bike, the e-bike does have GPS tracking, so they may have to subpoena the company or whatever, but they will do everything as quickly as they can to really track the route that he took once he went into Central Park.

Again, if he rented the e-bike, is this something that they can then trace to find out if he legitimately used his own, you know, credit card or what have you?