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Hegseth Meets with Mike Rounds; Biden Mulls Preemptive Pardons for Fauci, Schiff and Cheney; Kash Patel's Perceived "Enemies"; Bitcoin Surges Above $100,000. Aired 10:30-11a ET
Aired December 05, 2024 - 10:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[10:30:00]
JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Take a look at this. Pete Hegseth is back up on Capitol Hill trying to keep his bid for becoming defense secretary alive. This was Hegseth just a few moments ago ahead of his meeting with the Armed Services Committee Member Senator Mike Rounds of South Dakota. Hegseth maintains he still has the full support of President-Elect Trump despite all the controversy swirling around his nomination. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP'S PICK FOR DEFENSE SECRETARY: I'm here because Donald Trump. If he didn't want me to be here, then I wouldn't be here.
I spoke to Trump this morning, just a few minutes ago. He supports us fully.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: Let's discuss that and more now with Democratic Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren of California. Congresswoman, thank you so much for being here this morning, Senator Richard Blumenthal is calling on the Senate Armed Services Committee to demand that two veterans groups that were led by Hegseth to, quote, "preserve and produce records." Hegseth has denied he mismanaged those groups. But with all of these questions swirling around his nomination, I mean, what are your thoughts at this moment? He says he's staying in.
REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Well, you know, it's up to the Senate really, the House doesn't have a role to play in this. But certainly, it looks like a big mess. You sort of wonder what kind of checking the Trump people did before they sent his name up here. And certainly, I'm sure the Senators will want to know everything about this. I mean, the allegations are pretty wild. And if true, not the sort of thing you'd want to associate with somebody who's running a trillion-dollar agency, the Department of Defense.
ACOSTA: Yes. Well, and to ask you about something that is coming into your wheelhouse, Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, apparently, will be up on Capitol Hill talking about their ideas for this the thing that they're calling DOGE, the Department of Government Efficiency, which is a bit of a misnomer because it won't be a part of the federal government apparently. But Congress controls the purse strings.
[10:35:00]
What are your thoughts on Elon Musk and Ramaswamy deciding or trying to decide what stays and what goes in the federal government?
LOFGREN: What's illegal? You know, they haven't asked to meet with me, but the impoundment of funds that have been appropriated by the Congress is unconstitutional and illegal. There is no such Department of Government Efficiency. It's made up. So, good luck to him. I mean, if there is a plan that President Trump wants to propose to the Congress, he should send it to us, but the constitution does not permit the president to simply avoid what the Congress has done. That power of the purse is with the legislative branch, not the president.
ACOSTA: And I do want to ask you, because of your work on the January 6th Committee. After President Biden pardoned his son, Hunter, of course, Donald Trump, you, as you know, responded by linking the action to the January 6th defendants saying he wants to go along with his proposal of pardoning many of those defendants.
What are your thoughts on that? What's your reaction? And what would happen to the country, do you think, if many of these rioters, these attackers who assaulted the Capitol get pardons?
LOFGREN: Well, you know, I didn't approve of President Biden's pardon of his son. But so far as I'm aware, Hunter Biden was not accused of pouring bear spray in the face of officers, attacking them with weapons, causing injuries so severe to officers that they had to retire from the department. I mean, over a thousand of the rioters who pled guilty to very serious offenses. These officers were covered in blood. And you know, these defendants pled guilty because they are guilty very serious assault. And to say that that's OK would be really wrong.
ACOSTA: Is there anything Democrats could do about it, if he pardons them?
LOFGREN: Well, you know, I don't think so. The pardon power is vested with the president in the constitution. There's not a role for Congress to play. But one would hope that people who've pled guilty to serious assault to felonies, who've been sentenced to prison because of what they -- the crimes they committed against law enforcement officers, would not be receiving a pardon from the president. Simply wrong.
ACOSTA: And officials in the Biden administration have reportedly been looking at who Trump and his FBI pick Kash Patel for FBI director may go after. And Politico, I'm sure you've seen this, says the president is considering issuing preemptive pardons to people like Dr. Anthony Fauci, your state's new Senator Adam Schiff, one of the people you served with on the January 6th Committee, Republican -- Former Republican Congressman Liz Cheney. What did you make of that?
LOFGREN: Well, I don't know. President Biden hasn't contacted me. But certainly, in the constitution, it is provided that members of Congress may not be held to answer at any other place for their legislative work. If there was an effort to pursue either the members of Congress or the staff who were doing legislative work, that would be wrong. Ultimately, it would fail. But of course, it could cause a lot of upset, which is probably what Kash would prefer to do. It's unconstitutional. And I don't know if Biden intends to do pardons or not.
I do think that what's being threatened against law enforcement officers, FBI officers who were doing their job is really the more serious matter. People who were doing their work and now are being threatened for doing their job, and they don't have the same constitutional protections that members of the legislative branch have.
ACOSTA: All right. Congresswoman Zoe Lofgren, thank you very much for your time, we appreciate it.
LOFGREN: You bet, anytime.
ACOSTA: All right. Coming up, more on Donald Trump's controversial pick to head the FBI. He has made no secret about his perceived enemies. I'll speak to one of Kash Patel's former White House colleagues on the legal action he is taking against her. Olivia Troye joins me next.
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[10:40:00]
ACOSTA: Kash Patel, Donald Trump's controversial pick to lead the FBI, has made no secret of his plans to weaponize the department to go after his perceived enemies. Those include members of what he refers to as the deep state, the fake news Mafia, and even former colleagues. And Patel appears to be making good on that threat already, before facing a confirmation process, threatening former Trump White House colleague Olivia Troye with litigation and demanding that she retract, quote, "defamatory" comments stemming from her blunt assessment of their time together. Let's take a listen to that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OLIVIA TROYE, FORMER ADVISER TO VP MIKE PENCE AND FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER TO VP MIKE PENCE: Kash Patel is a delusional liar. Let me just be very clear about that. And he would lie about intelligence. He would lie about making things up on operations. I think Mark Esper has talked about that as well, where he put the lives of Navy SEALs at risk in an operation when it came to Nigeria. These are things that actually were happening in real-time when he was in the role of CT coordinator in the White House.
[10:45:00]
And I know this because at some point I realized that I needed to double check Kash's work to make sure that I wasn't misinforming Mike Pence by relying on his word. So, I had to go around him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ACOSTA: And Olivia Troye joins me now. She served as a Homeland Security Counterterrorism and COVID Task Force adviser to former Vice President Mike Pence. Olivia, great to see you this morning. I mean, what does that even tell you that even before his confirmation hearings, he is threatening you for criticizing him?
TROYE: Yes, I think it's a very clear sign of what's to come should he become the director of the FBI and how he's going to conduct himself. I mean, we should take him at his word. These are things that he has threatened in the past. And I think by doing what he did, by sending that letter to me, it was an attempt to bully me, silence me, intimidate me.
But it's also a signal to others, right, as he goes into the confirmation process of trying to silence others in terms of telling the truth about his background. I mean, look, I am a person who believes that he is unfit for the role of FBI director, and I have concerns about how he will behave in the role and, you know, leading the nation's premier law enforcement agency.
ACOSTA: And so, you stand by your criticism of Kash Patel?
TROYE: I absolutely do. This is --
ACOSTA: Even if they have this letter saying you've got to retract all this, you're not going to do that?
TROYE: Yes, I'm not going to retract from telling the truth. That is where I am. And this is something that I lived when I was working with him and it is absolutely true. I -- you know, my job in that role was to serve the vice president of the United States in the best way possible. That is what I did. And if it meant, you know, at times not taking Kash at his word going around, look, there were people on his staff that used to come to my office and seek counsel for me and advice about what it was like to work for him who know exactly what I'm talking about.
Others have been very public about the things that I mentioned. I am not the only senior national security official who has, you know, come out and said they have concerns about Kash Patel and his fitness for this role.
ACOSTA: And so, you would testify at a confirmation hearing if called to testify for Kash Patel and you think that -- is it possible that other -- you were just mentioning other officials who worked around him during the Trump administration, is it possible we might see other former colleagues be called to testify who would have things to say about things that he did right, things that they think he did wrong?
TROYE: Yes. And the reason that I think this is so important is because We are people that worked in nonpartisan roles. That's how the national security community works right? And that is why we're concerned because when it comes to someone that's going to lead the FBI, the last thing we need is a loyalist partisan hack leading that agency and doing things that are going to be just for the president's or his personal vendetta. And that is why this matters so much.
And I'm happy. I'm happy to go before Congress and testify and tell them what I know. I'm sure others would as well.
ACOSTA: And to be clear. I mean, if he becomes FBI director, I mean, he has talked in the past about going after members of the media, going after what he refers to as the deep state. Earlier this week, we were showing an appendix from one of his books that shows this list of people that are from the deep state. It looks like an enemy's list. I suppose he might say it's not an enemy's list. Do you think if he becomes the FBI director that he will target people that he considers to be his adversaries or enemies? Not only of Kash Patel but Donald Trump?
TROYE: Yes, absolutely. And I would say that, you know, on that list are Republicans on that list. And I would say that anyone that he feels has crossed the president in the future everyone should really think carefully about what it looks like to have the FBI run by someone who is going to behave in this manner.
And this is someone -- his demeanor when he was in the roles that I met him in when he was working in the first Trump administration. This is how he behaved on a daily basis, was a division of always suspecting deep state people, always questioning, it hiding information. And I could go on.
ACOSTA: So, you think he could go after John Bolton? You think he could go after Lisa Monaco, Stephanie Grisham, people like that?
TROYE: Yes, and it is concerning. These are people who are simply telling the truth about what they know. And I think we should play close attention to what this means for the media, for people going forward. And is that who we want to be as a nation? Is that who we want to be as a United States with someone in the FBI leading that organization, using it for political purposes and not using it to protect the safety and security of the American people?
ACOSTA: And I got to run, but I do want to ask you something I asked Zoe Lofgren in the previous segment. There's been some reporting over at Politico. Jonathan Martin reporting that the Biden administration is thinking about doing preemptive pardons. Do you think preemptive pardons are necessary for people like yourself, other folks that -- Dr. Anthony Fauci, Adam Schiff, Liz Cheney, I mean, that could be targeted by a Kash Patel led FBI?
TROYE: I mean, it's certainly something to consider. I guess my question is, I have not done anything wrong. I know that. And I know that many of us who have just spoken the truth. All we're doing is speaking the truth. But in today's environment, in terms of what's to come under the Trump administration, I think that's something that we're all thinking about and wondering what's to come. And I think I am a prime example of what's to come when I've already gotten a threatening letter by someone like Kash Patel, who we know is a loyalist and a henchman for Donald Trump.
[10:50:00] ACOSTA: All right. Olivia Troye, thank you very much. Appreciate it. Keep us posted. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ACOSTA: New this morning, got any of this lying around? Bitcoin is smashing records, surging to a new high of $100,000 after steadily climbing in value since Donald Trump won the election. President-Elect Trump is taking credit for the Bitcoin boom, by the way.
Joining us now is CNN's Matt Egan. Matt, what's behind this surge? You got any Bitcoin lying around you want to share?
MATT EGAN: I wish, Jim. Listen, Bitcoin has been on fire, and clearly the election has been a major factor. Up another 2.5 percent over the last 24 hours, as you mentioned, crossing over the $100,000 level for the first time ever. And there's no coincidence that this milestone came just hours after President-Elect Trump announced plans to swap out one of the crypto industry's biggest enemies with a much friendlier face. Trump says that he wants Gary Gensler, the outgoing SEC chair, who's very tough on crypto, to be replaced by a conservative lawyer and crypto enthusiast Paul Atkins.
Now, as you can see on that chart, the trend has been certainly higher and higher for Bitcoin. Much of that was actually before the election, but it's also true, it's been going basically straight up since November up 50 percent since Election Day. What's ironic is Trump used to bash Bitcoin. He said it was based on thin air, and it was scam against the dollar. But like many on Wall Street, he's completely turned around. He's promised to make America the crypto capital on the planet and to even launch a strategic Bitcoin reserve. And against all of that, we've seen Bitcoin go higher and higher, Jim.
ACOSTA: Yes, it does seem a little frothy though. We're going to keep our eyes on that, Matt. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it.
And thank you for joining us this morning. I'm Jim Acosta. Our next hour of Newsroom with Pamela Brown starts after a short break. Have a good day.
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