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Rebels Claim Control of Damascus; Syrian PM Being Escorted by Rebels; U.S. Should Not Get Involved in Syria Conflict Says Trump; Syrian Rebels Inside Presidential Palace in Damascus; Rebels Declare Damascus "Free". Aired 4-5a ET

Aired December 08, 2024 - 04:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[04:00:00]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN Breaking News.

BECKY ANDERSON, CNN ANCHOR: And welcome to our viewers wherever you are watching around the world. I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi with breaking news out of Syria for you today, where 50 years of authoritarian rule by the Assad family is crumbled in the face of a lightning-fast rebel offensive.

In a statement carried out on state TV, the rebels declared they have, quote, "liberated" the capital, Damascus, claiming President Bashar al-Assad has been overthrown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): With the help of God, the City of Damascus was liberated and the regime of the tyrant Bashar al- Assad was toppled. All prisoners from the prisons of the regime were liberated. The operations center of Fateh Damascus asked all brothers, jihadists, and citizens to preserve all the belongings of the Syrian State. Long live free Syria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: And as you will see in this next video Prime Minister Mohammad Ghazi al-Jalali, escorted by rebels in Damascus earlier today, they purportedly took him to a hotel to hand over government authority.

Well, the rebels seen celebrating on the grounds of the Syrian presidential palace earlier, and they say they are searching for Assad who has not been seen or heard from for some days. Rebels have been sweeping through the country since launching this offensive last week. They claim to have captured four cities in one day before reaching the capital.

Well, a new video shows the rebel flag raised over Damascus hospital and military uniforms littering the street. U.S. President Joe Biden and his team say they are closely monitoring the situation and staying in contact with regional partners.

Well, CNN Chief International Anchor Christiane Amanpour joins us now from Doha. And, Christiane, what do you make of what is unfolding, the significance both for Syria and Syrians, of course, and for the wider region?

CHRISTIAN AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Well, Becky, obviously, like everyone here at Doha, a meeting of regional leaders for the Doha Forum, the annual event, which brings foreign ministers, prime ministers, not just in the region from -- but from elsewhere as well, including American officials, there is a huge amount of surprise because of the lightning speed of all of this.

Even though all these countries have excessive intelligence and all this operation where they can pretty much figure out what's going on, they were unable to understand that this was happening last week and how fast that it happened and how quick the denouement has been in the terms of the fact that it appears Assad has been overthrown, although his whereabouts still remain unknown.

So, the big picture is that Russia, Assad's main backer, is weakened because of Ukraine. Iran is weakened because of the attacks on Hezbollah and the attacks by Israel. Hezbollah, which were the Syrian forces ground troops, are weakened. And as such, the rebels, who appear to be supported by Turkey, have found this moment of opportunity and have stormed up the country like a hot knife through butter.

The big question will be what happens next, obviously, and we simply don't know. When I was on the stage here at the Doha Forum yesterday with the Qatari foreign minister and deputy prime minister, this is what he said. He essentially put it on the shoulders of Bashar Assad, who had not used, he said, the intervening few years of relative quiet in the country to make any inroads in terms of uniting the actual Syrian people around his government. Here's what the Qatari prime minister told me.

MOHAMMED BIN ADULRAHMAN AT THANI, QATARI PRIME MINISTER: Well, we had an opportunity in that time when the war over there has calmed down, yet Assad didn't seize this opportunity to start engaging and restoring his relationship with his people. And we didn't see any serious movement, whether it's on the return of the refugees or in reconciling with his own people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[04:05:00]

AMANPOUR: So, as you know, you know, in the intervening years, the region had started to rehabilitate Bashar Assad. The United States believed that Bashar Assad could be used as a bulwark in the region in a kind of reshaping Middle East since the Israeli war, essentially around here that have really weakened Iran's proxies in this region. We understand through reporting that the United States was even trying to peel Bashar Assad away from Iran.

Well, all of that has now, you know, been completely demolished, whatever building blocks they were trying to achieve in this region, the post-Israeli situation here. And now, we understand that Russia says that it's potentially still supporting the regime, but there is no more regime. The Iranian foreign minister, who I was due to interview right here today in the next couple of hours about this whole situation, has been called back to Tehran, where there's going to be a meeting, we understand, on this situation.

Remember, Iran and Russia have put all their backing on the Bashar Assad regime for the past 13 years. And this has all gone to come to naught right now. Last night, there was a meeting here at this hotel where I am between the Qatari prime minister and representatives, foreign ministers of Russia, of Turkey, of Iran, of all the nations that have really involved in this situation. But again, we don't know how this is going to unfold.

And the most important thing I've heard from a human rights official is will this rebel coalition, you know, sort of identify itself by its respect for the minorities. If this rebel coalition respects the Alawites in Syria, who are the minority group who support the Assad regime, then it's potentially possible to do deals. But if it shows a vengeance in the aftermath of this power grab, then it's going to be a very, very different situation. And Syria could easily turn out to be even more of a failed state than it is right now. And that could easily sort of unravel the situation in this area.

But don't forget, Assad was the dictator who 13 years ago cracked down violently against his own people who just wanted reform. They didn't even want to overthrow him at the beginning, but the response by the Assad regime to the original young people's demonstrations in the City of Daraa was what set off a multi-year civil war.

And so, we're going to see who wins, who loses out of all of this, and what happens if there is a major realignment of forces and of order and of influence in this region at this time. Becky.

ANDERSON: Bashar al-Assad's whereabouts remain unknown. Lots of reporting, conflicting reporting going on about where he might be or what is what is -- where he might be at this point, and we are continuing to dig to get further information.

Meantime, Anwar Gargash, who is the senior director, or senior adviser for the president of the UAE, where I am said today at a conference in Bahrain, the Manama conference, the ISS (ph) dialogues, where he ends up, he said, where Assad ends up, will be a footnote in history, which is an interesting perspective.

You spoke to Bashar al-Assad back in 2005, as I understand it, ahead of the U.N. report into Rafic Hariri's assassination. I remember that interview, and I know that we've got some of that just to play out at this point. Just tee it up for me, if you will, Christiane.

AMANPOUR: Becky, it's interesting to have these pictures just because it shows Bashar Assad as a president in charge. Obviously, this was, you know, 19 years ago, but apparently, the rebels have the palace. So, the palace that Assad used as his -- you know, as his headquarters has now been overrun in terms of the images that you're showing and that are being broadcast and that the rebels are broadcasting. But at no point did Bashar Assad express, you know, solidarity with his own people and with the modernization in the region. Remember, when he first came to power, there was a group, there was a threesome of new Arab leaders. There was King Abdullah of Jordan, who had taken over after the death of the long-time Jordanian monarch, King Hussein. There was Bashar Assad in Syria after the death of the longtime dictator, Hafez Assad, and then in Morocco as well Hassan VI had taken over after the death of his father.

[04:10:00]

And there was a thought back then -- and this is, you know, early 2000s, there was a thought that these three new leaders would usher in a new reality. Well, in Syria, it didn't happen. There was a lot of hope. There was a lot of investment by the United States and others to try to see whether there was a new ability to create maybe not a full democracy but at least some kind of different of different situation, but it never happened.

And then, of course, the assassination of Rafic Hariri, the reformist, modernizing president of prime minister of Lebanon, who was assassinated, the U.N. blamed the forces of Syria, you know, Assad always denied it. But that's what happened there. And then, you saw the gradual dissolution of the Lebanese State as well.

And now, all these years later and in the interim of the Arab Spring, when Iran came in, specifically first to put down the Syrian Arab Spring, Iran came in on the ground along with its Hezbollah foot soldiers, and then shortly thereafter, a couple of years later, Russia entered saying that it was coming in to put down terrorism and a point that Lavrov, the foreign minister raised yesterday, they said, we came into Syria and they came in on the ground, you remember, and they were serious proxies at the U.N. Security Council. They always were the political voice for Assad and protected him in the International Community for all these years.

Now, all that investment has essentially appear to gone down the drain. We don't know if there are any meetings between the rebels and the Turkish authorities and the Russians and the Iranians. We don't know how this is going to end up. And we don't really know what the pathway by the rebels is going to be. They talk a good game right now. They're talking about being more inclusive. Jolani, who's apparently the head of this rebel group, who was a member of Al Qaeda, who then broke away, created HTS, or whatever it is, what -- the company -- the group that they're with now, we don't know where they're going.

We also don't know whether ISIS will be re-engaged, but we certainly do know that the United States doesn't want to get involved. We've heard a tweet from President-Elect Trump, but presumably, they will use their ability, because they are -- you know, they are also stationed in Syria. How long that will last, we don't know. But they say that they will continue to operate against ISIS if that threat re- emerges. So, a lot of unknowns right now, except for the fall of the Assad regime. That seems to be clear.

ANDERSON: Christiane, it's good to have you. Christiane Amanpour is in Doha. Joining me now from Geneva is Jerome Dreven. He is a senior analyst on Jihad and Modern Conflicts. Good to have you. Christiane just talking about the leader of HTS as the group is known. He seemed to be sort of spearheaded, what is a group of, sort of, opposition figures and fighters, talking a new story about, you know, what a new Syria might look like.

Look, let's be quite clear about this, this is not a move from dictatorship to democracy overnight under the auspices of these new rebel groups. They have significant Islamist backgrounds and that will worry many. What's your sense of what we are seeing on the ground? Who backs these groups and why?

JEROME DREVEN, SENIOR ANALYST ON JIHAD AND MODERN CONFLICT: There is very little support for these groups. The main source of support is Turkey, but even that we speak about some coordination and some limited advice, because Turkey did not really want this operation to begin with because they didn't think that it could succeed.

And so, the insurgency and the armed alliance coalition of groups really took it by themselves and decided to go south and to go to Damascus by themselves with little, really, support from outside.

ANDERSON: What do you expect to happen next at this point?

DREVEN: So, now it's going to be extremely challenging for the whole coalition, because it's a diverse coalition. Some groups are more structured, more organized, including HTS and some of its allies that are originally from the (INAUDIBLE) in the northwest. Others are more local entities.

So, now, they will have to discuss, to sit to discuss the next administration. What form will the government take? Who is going to be in charge? How are they going to maintain some of the existing structures in terms of institution? How are they going to restore security, basic social services and so on? So, the challenge is huge for them in front of their eyes.

[04:15:00]

ANDERSON: How much interest will these groups who are now, one assumes, looking to take over the -- well, get involved in governing Syria? How much interest will they have outside of the country? There will be, you know, clear concern in Amman this morning, in Beirut, in Tel Aviv, in capitals around the region watching what is going on in Syria and saying how might this impact us on our own security. Should they park that concern?

This is ultimately, in the days and weeks ahead, a very specifically domestic story, which of course has huge influence around this region, but you see this is a very specifically focused domestic story in the days ahead.

DREVEN: Yes. Yes, exactly. But reality that when we look at foreign countries, we really have to differentiate them. Countries like Turkey and Qatar have been much more supportive of from the position in general, not just of HTS, but of the principle of routine change in Syria. So, we can expect them to be much more involved in terms of stabilization so that the experiment goes well, so that there is no chaos the way it happened before in Libya, in Iraq, the U.S. intervention and so on.

Israel will look at its border. Israel will be careful that none of these groups are getting closer to the border and potentially launching some attacks. But then, other countries, including Europeans, Gulf countries will try to shape the process in a way, but also to either favor their own interest for Gulf countries or for the Europeans to stabilize the situation because Europeans would not want the situation to deteriorate further. Europeans will be looking for stability, so potentially they will have to open dialogue with some of these groups, including groups like HTS, with whom there is no dialogue because the organization is still listed as a terrorist organization by European countries. But ultimately, they will have to find a way to speak with it for the sake of the (INAUDIBLE).

ANDERSON: It's good to have you, sir. Thank you very much indeed for your analysis. Jerome Dreven on the story for you. Well, our breaking news coverage from Syria continues ahead as celebrations break out across the country with a search for the president by the rebel groups now underway, they say. More on this coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[04:20:00]

ANDERSON: Well, a statue of Former Syrian President Hafez al-Assad toppled on the country's Arwad Island. He was the father of the current Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad. Rebel troops say they are now searching for him after declaring on state TV that they have liberated Damascus. And we are now hearing reports from Iranian state media that Iran's embassy in Damascus has been stormed after the Syrian rebel takeover in the country.

Well, joining us now live from London is Fawaz Gerges. Fawaz is a professor at the London School of Economics, a regular guest on this show, the author of "What Really Went Wrong: The West and The Failure of Democracy in the Middle East." And just a caveat what we're about to talk about here, I mean, if anybody thinks we are going to move from dictatorship to democracy overnight in Syria, well, they are sorely mistaken, but we should talk about what Syria will look like going forward. Firstly, the -- your assessment of what we are witnessing on the ground in Syria today, Fawaz.

FAWAZ GERGES, PROFESSOR, LONDON SCHOOL OF ECONOMICS AND POLITICAL SCIENCE: Becky I think if I say a historical milestone, does not really capture the significance of this particular moment. This particular moment reminds me of the Iranian revolution in 1979. Assad was really as brutal as Reza Shah of Iran who ruled Iran between 1953 and 1979.

The Assad family has been in power from 1971 up to 2024. Syria could go both two ways, Becky. And you know Syria very well. One way, Syria could go basically descends into all out social, political, tribal, and religious upheaval, like Libya, like Yemen. Communities standing up, various communities, and taking arms into their own hands.

Another way is that Syria could really begin the process of healing. This will take a long time healing in terms of state building, in terms of nation building, because Syria has been ruled autocratically and brutally for almost -- you know, from 1971 until the present.

And I think the reason why I'm a bit hopeful because the Islamist opposition, in particular, has been trying to reassure Syrians, all communities, in the sense Syria for all Syrians, in the sense don't ever damage government properties, in the sense that basically they are really running a very tight show. But we have to wait and see, as you know, because in Iran, the situation after one year, the Iranian revolution morphed from a, you know, socially based, broadly based revolution into an Islamist revolution.

ANDERSON: You are right to point out that this is a fragmented group of opposition, as it were, you know, rebel groups from both the north and the south, various groupings from around Syria. One of which, though, and the sort of lead in this fragmented grouping is HTS, as our viewers will have heard it described, and it is run by a man by the name of al-Baghdadi.

[04:25:00]

And the sort of lead in this fragmented grouping is HTS, as our viewers will have heard it described. And it is run by a man by the name of al-Jolani, who was interviewed by my colleague Jomana Karadsheh, recently. This is a group that is prescribed as a terror organization by the United States and others around the world. Let's have a listen to part of the conversation that she had with our Jomana.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Once an Al Qaeda leader, your group has had affiliations with Al Qaeda, with ISIS, and now, you are projecting this image of a moderate leader and a moderate group. What is HTS right now?

ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI, LEADER, HAYAT TAHRIR AL-SHAM (HTS) (through translator): Hayat Tahrir al-Sham is one of the factions in the region, just like all the others. Now, we're talking about a larger project. We're talking about building Syria. Hayat Tahrir al-Sham is merely one detail of this dialogue, and it may dissolve at any time. It's not an end in itself, but a means to perform a task confronting this regime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON: The Biden administration has said it is, quote, "watching" what is going on in Syria. The U.S. President-Elect Donald Trump has said the U.S. should stay out of what is going on there. It is not our war, he said, and is applauding the Russians, for example, who he says has no -- have no interest in Syria, of abandoning President Bashar al-Assad. Now, we all know, of course, that the Russians, indeed, do have an interest in Syria. They just clearly don't have any interest in this current regime, which has now fallen.

Fawaz, as you consider what is going on the ground and as you describe your impressions of what may happen next, how should the U.S. be gaming this out?

GERGES: Well, I mean, I think the U.S. is conflicted. On the one hand, they are basically boasting in the fact that basically this is a major loss, major setback for Russia and Iran. And multiple U.S. officials, Antony Blinken, Jake Sullivan, the national security spokespersons. So, a loss and a setback for America's rivals, Iran and Russia means really a plus for the United States.

On the other hand, the Americans know very well. That Syria could really go travel the wrong way. And Syria ruled by an Islamist Salafi movement is not really the American preference for Syria. In particular, that the United States designates Hayat Tahrir al-Sham as a terrorist organization.

Let me come back to Abu Mohammad al-Jolani. Abu Mohammad al-Jolani and I have written a great deal, as you know, about the Salafi jihadist movement. He's a very cunning, calculating, intelligent man. He has really -- basically, he has having the last laugh, you know, whether you're talking about Ayman al-Zawahiri or Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who they fought very bitterly, or even, you know, basically Bashar al- Assad.

I mean, so far, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham is not just one of the members of the coalitions, it is it. It's the vanguard of the opposition. It has led the fight and the battle against Bashar al-Assad. It has really basically made all the difference in this particular war against Assad.

So, far, it seems to me that Hayat Tahrir al-Sham is showing maturity. Is showing intelligence. It wants us to believe that it's no longer really a Salafi jihadist movement. It believes in a new Syria. And I take that. I like that. It's reassuring for the Syrian public, but we have to wait and see. I grant them that they might have matured and basically become more tolerant. But at the end of the day, we have to wait and see and hope that Syria does not really descend into the same pattern as Iran did in 1979.

So, at this particular moment, the Syrian people are celebrating the end of, you know, of years of brutality and repression. And to me, Becky, final point, the most moving scene in this particular drama, in this particular, really, historical scene was really the release of the prisoners from Saydnaya Prison, where prisoners, in particular women prisoners, were distressed, confused, fearful. They were really fear -- they feared to leave their own cells.

[04:30:00]

And the fact is, this moment for millions of Syrians, it's a moment of liberation. It's a moment of hope. So, let's take this moment and really rejoice with the Syrian people and hope for the best because it's going to take many years for Syria to heal and to really become a functioning nation state, as all of us would like us to see. ANDERSON: Yes, absolutely. And you make a very good point, 7 million Syrians either displaced internally or outside of the country. Many of those will be watching what is going on today and wondering just how quickly they might be able to return home. There will be those -- and we've seen them running through an airport that was basically not working this morning, nobody there, no staff there, people running through.

Clearly, there's some concern on the part of those who've been associated with the regime and some worry about what happens next for them and their families. But certainly, applauding and celebrating the moment for Syrians is well, put. Thank you very much indeed. Fawaz Gerges in the house with us today.

We are covering and will continue to cover this breaking news out of Syria. We're going to take a very short break. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Right. Welcome back to our viewers in the United States and around the world. Wherever you are watching, you are more than welcome. I'm Becky Anderson. You're watching CNN Newsroom.

And our breaking news this morning, rebel forces in Syria say the capital of Damascus has been liberated, claiming President Bashar al- Assad has been overthrown.

[04:35:00]

In this video, you see Prime Minister Mohammad Ghazi al-Jalali being escorted by rebels in Damascus earlier. They purportedly took him to a hotel to hand over government authority.

Well, people are celebrating in the streets, some carrying huge rebel flags. The rebels actively now searching for Assad, they say, who has not been seen or heard of for days. A source tells CNN, rebels questioning Syrian military officers and intelligence officials who might have knowledge about his movements.

Well, the White House says it is closely monitoring the situation in Syria. The remarkable speed of the Syrian rebel advances rapidly changed the Biden administration's assessment. Several U.S. officials told CNN that the White House foresaw the possibility of Assad's falling within days, but as we can see, it came sooner than that. CNN's Julia Benbrook has the very latest for you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JULIA BENBROOK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: If American analysis proves to be true, that would be a spectacularly fast fall from power for the Syrian dictator. After a 14-year war, one that has remained relatively stagnant up until this last week. Now, U.S. officials warn that there is no formal assessment being shared here and that opinions do vary.

But one senior U.S. official tells our team, quote, "The emerging consensus is that is an increasingly plausible scenario." Leading the rebel advance in Syria is a group referred to as HTS, a group designated as a terrorist organization by the United States. During an interview with CNN last weekend, National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan emphasized just how complicated this situation is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SULLIVAN, U.S. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: So, we have real concerns about the designs and objectives of that organization. At the same time, of course, we don't cry over the fact that the Assad government backed by Russia, Iran, and Hezbollah, you know, are facing certain kinds of pressure. So, it's a complicated situation. It's one we're monitoring closely and we're staying in close touch with regional partners about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BENBROOK: One U.S. official says that the Pentagon, which has about 900 troops in Syria, is not making plans to change force posture in the country, and is waiting to see how things play out while taking additional force protection measures.

At the White House, Julia Benbrook, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANDERSON: Well, U.S. President-Elect Donald Trump weighing in on the escalating situation in Syria, posting on social media late on Saturday, quote, "The United States should have nothing to do with it. This not our fight. Let it play out," he said. Do not get involved. And in another post early on Sunday, Trump said Bashar al-Assad was, quote, "gone," adding that Russia was, quote, "not interested" in protecting him anymore. He went on to say that Russia was in a weakened state right now because of its ongoing war in Syria.

In Ukraine, Uriel Epshtein is the CEO of the Renew Democracy Initiative and joins us from Arlington, Virginia. What do you make of what we've heard, both from the Biden administration and indeed from the U.S. President-Elect Donald Trump?

URIEL EPSHTEIN, CEO, RENEW DEMOCRACY INITIATIVE: You know, thank you so much for having me on. I think actually that this an instance in which I don't entirely disagree with Mr. Trump. I think that the president-elect is right to say that the United States for the moment should sit back and see how this plays out. I would also note that this actually an important moment in which we can see how you cannot look at conflicts individually, how you have to look at the world globally, because Assad's fall in Damascus runs through Jerusalem and Kyiv.

And so, this an important lesson for the free world. It's important for us to recognize that you cannot simply ignore one conflict in favor of -- a lot of Americans talk about the importance of, for instance, supporting forces in Israel while trying to disengage from Eastern Europe. We see now the effects in Syria of what happens when these things happen simultaneously. And as a result, you see dictatorships like Russia and Iran getting isolated and tyrants like Assad getting toppled.

ANDERSON: How do you see what's going on in Syria having an impact on the wider region of the Middle East, of both the Arab nations here in this region, the Gulf that I am in, and Iran?

[04:40:00]

EPSHTEIN: Well, I think it's -- it ultimately depends on how the power balance -- I think what we're going to see right now is a fairly significant period of instability where both the Russia and Iran are going to be decreasing their ability to influence events in the Middle East. And as a result, you're going to see Arab countries trying to portray their power at a greater rate across the region and push back against Iranian and Russian influence, which I think has been fairly significant over the course of the last decade plus.

ANDERSON: Good to have you, Uriel Epshtein in Arlington, Virginia. Thank you. We're going to take a very short break. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANDERSON: Well, an update now on the breaking news out of Syria, and Iranian state media reporting that Iran's embassy was stormed after rebels took control of Damascus. Meanwhile, rebel troops are searching for President Bashar al-Assad. They say after declaring on state TV that they have overthrown his quote, "criminal regime."

Well, this video shows people in Damascus demolishing a statue of Syria's Former President Hafez al-Assad. He was the father of Bashar al-Assad. The rebels don't have to search for the prime minister this morning. They are escorting him, in this video, apparently to a hotel to hand over authority. He said earlier that he is ready to work with quote, "any leadership that people choose."

[04:45:00]

Well, remarkable pictures now coming in to us from across the country. By the minute scenes, no one could have imagined possible just days ago. Here we can see Syrians, both men with guns and even little children flocking to the presidential palace in Syria in Damascus following Assad's ouster. Some people can be seen carrying chairs and pieces of furniture out as they walk away.

More coming in as we speak, and we'll get you more video as it comes into CNN's center of the presidential palace. Really remarkable scenes. Let's get you to London and some more perspective from CNN's Nick Paton Walsh. And as we continue to look at some of these pictures, you know, what is unfolding.

We've been reporting on this now for, well, the past hours, and what is unfolding in here is historic. Some will say, well, you know, there have been pivotal moments in this region over the years. There will be Syrians who say that this a moment they hope will provide, you know, the beginning of the end, or as it were, an opportunity to return home for so many of those, the 7 million who are either displaced internally or externally. There will be those Syrians who are in Damascus today and anxious about their future if they are more allied to the regime. Nick, what do you make of what we are seeing and hearing over these past hours?

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, look, it's really important amongst all the caution people are sounding about HTS, the group -- the peak of this rebel movement to acknowledge the fact that, you know, whatever comes after Bashar al-Assad, the years of the Assad regime have been just pure utterly horrific for nearly all Syrians, frankly, apart from those who assisted its continuation.

I just continually remind myself of the images we've seen during the brutality of that civil war of, remember, nine children being brought out of a collapsed building in Aleppo in the early stages of the war that I watched. There were the bodies of the detained who'd been shot at point blank range who floated down the river of Aleppo as well in the earlier stage of this war. It's been utterly horrific. And just one example, frankly, of the decades of the Assad family's brutality on their own people.

So, whatever comes next replaces an exceptionally low horrifically murderous base. And so, I think it's fair, at this point, you know, for ordinary Syrians to have an extraordinary moment of joy and relief. But then, of course, the vacuum follows. And, you know, maybe indeed the rebel movement we've seen have a more organized plan. They certainly seem to have had some coordination with the prime minister. They appear to have, I think it's fair to say, some pretty significant support from Syria's northern neighbor, Turkey.

It's been remarkable how persistent and how much momentum. That rebel offensive has indeed managed to maintain. But you can't remove the fact that, you know, the height al-Jolani is somebody still, at this point, with an American bounty on his head for al Qaeda links. So, that's clearly an issue that's going to have to be swiftly resolved somehow. And then, of course, the question of exactly how does this Syrian movement choose its next leader. What level of democracy does it apply? These are all longer-term more sophisticated questions.

But, Becky, I think what we've seen most critically over the past week inside the Middle East is a collapse of Syria's two major guarantors' ability to provide that security. The first and the possibly the most anticipatable has been Hezbollah. Iran essentially. The Iranian proxy based in Lebanon that fought so brutally for Assad over many years that lost so many of its own more experienced fighters propping up the Damascus regime. Many, I think, felt that they must have struggled to recover from that brutal fight but managed to maintain the idea that they were still 100-foot tall when confronting Israel.

Israel in the Pager attack, we saw in the last months and the airstrikes that killed many civilians too around Beirut and Lebanon too have indeed dismantled it seems so much of Hezbollah infrastructure. They simply weren't able to intervene meaningfully and stop this route of the Syrian regime.

And then, secondly, the part which I think perhaps is going to end up having the more impact geopolitically is the fact that Moscow was simply unable to do anything in this point. Now, we've known how overstretched they are in Ukraine, certainly, they're on the ascendant there in the frontlines, but that's not an extraordinary cost to their own manpower. And it's clear from this that they had no forces to spare. And even indeed, the air force was unable to do anything meaningful to stop this.

And I think the sight of Sergey Lavrov standing there next to his Iranian and Turkish counterparts, the Turkish, I think the ones here in the ascendance, essentially saying he wasn't able to really predict the situation. He wasn't about guesswork, I paraphrase there, shows the fast decline for Moscow in that area.

[04:50:00]

They swooped in to save Assad, certainly, over nearly a decade ago now. But it's remarkable to see how the overstretched nature of what the Kremlin's done in Ukraine has left them just simply in retreat here. But, you know, I think we're looking at a moment here where it's important to recognize how vital it is that the Assad family and the horrors they've inflicted on the region. I mean, this a -- you know, a family that ruled a minority that did horrific things, the majority, and supported a system which created an imbalance across so much of that region, that's now gone. But as we've seen elsewhere, this isn't necessarily meaning the vacuum is filled with good things, Becky.

ANDERSON: Yes. Nick, it's good to have you. Nick Paton Walsh on the show for you this morning. And you can read Nick's analysis online titled "Two wars changed Syria's fortune: What comes next is impossible to know." You'll find that a cnn.com or on your CNN app. Nick, thank you.

I'm going to take a very short break at this point. A new day in Syria, possibly a new era as rebel forces claim the capital Damascus is now free. Well, it certainly is a new era. The question is, what did that era look like? We'll bring you the latest on what is this breaking story just ahead.

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ANDERSON: Welcome back. Many Syrians celebrating after rebel forces claim Assad's regime has been overthrown.

Well, the rebels say Damascus has been liberated. They are, they say, now searching for President Bashar al-Assad. He has not been seen or heard from in days. In this video, you can see people carrying, well, furniture and other items out of the presidential palace that Assad has apparently abandoned. Rebel fighters launched a surprise offensive last week, sweeping through cities, towns, and villages in Syria. The area highlighted in green is what they have already managed to destroy.

I'm Becky Anderson in Abu Dhabi. We will be back after this short break. It is important to consider what is going on. It is important that we look at who the rebels are who have claimed control of Damascus and the country and how -- what is going on in Syria has an impact around the wider region. We will discuss all of that coming up after this short break. I'll be back with more of our coverage right after this.

Wherever you are watching in the world, you are more than welcome. Please stay with us.

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