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Source Says, Fingerprint and DNA Recovered in Search for CEO Shooting Suspect Haven't Yielded Matches Yet; Syrian Dictator Flees to Russia as Rebels Seize Power; Trump Says, Jan. 6 Committee Members Should Go to Jail. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 09, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: Still on the run, the nationwide search intensifying for this man, the suspected killer of UnitedHealthcare's CEO. New reporting just into CNN about what investigators are learning from the DNA they found.

Donald Trump says he wants to see certain members of Congress sent to jail after they investigated his actions following the 2020 election. January 6th committee member Liz Cheney responds.

And later, his daughter was killed in her own home after calling 911 for help and now he's fighting to keep the person behind the gun locked up.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But as long as I have breath in my body I would encourage the Illinois Supreme Court to keep that killer locked up.

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ACOSTA: Sonya Massey's father will join me live.

Good morning. You are live in the CNN Newsroom. I'm Jim Acosta in Washington.

We begin this morning with the nationwide manhunt for a killer and we have a brand new development. Sources are telling CNN that DNA and a partial fingerprint so far have not matched anyone in law enforcement databases.

The NYPD and FBI are searching for leads in last week's ambush killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. These are the newest images of the suspect released by investigators. They come from a taxi just minutes after the deadly shooting on a Manhattan sidewalk.

Police believe they found the gunman's backpack in Central Park. It contained monopoly money, but no weapon. And NYPD divers searched the lake in Central Park, did not find the handgun, nor have they located the bicycle he used to escape. Let's bring in CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller. John, let's talk about your new reporting on the DNA and partial fingerprint. If there's no match in the database, what does that tell you? Is it because the suspect is so young that his DNA just might not be in any databases?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, these were the initial results. They've extracted DNA from the phone, they've extracted DNA from a water bottle that they believe he left behind that they have him on video purchasing at a Starbucks, same with the power bar that they recovered. So, they have extracted DNA. It's been sent to the medical examiner's office, and preliminary results are not a match.

However, there are more enhanced tests that can be done and we expect to hear more on that later this week. But as you know from past cases, assuming that it doesn't become a match in the national system, there are things that we've seen in other investigations where they take that DNA and they put it in some of the familial DNA databases, like 23andMe and others, and among those databases that are public, and see if it matches to family, relatives or others that may lead them to a suspect.

ACOSTA: Yes. John, sources tell CNN that investigators from NYPD are in Atlanta. We know that's where the Greyhound bus originated. Do we know if that's a promising lead? What do you think? Or they're just trying to shake all the bushes they can at this point?

MILLER: Well, we've been talking to CNN's Ryan Young, down in Atlanta, and it seems that NYPD has been there and apparently don't have him boarding the bus in Atlanta. But not a big surprise because they know that the bus originated in Atlanta, but they were never certain where along that route he may have boarded. So, between NYPD detectives and FBI agents who are helping out going to all of those stops and trying to see if they can extract a picture or some video from a security camera at any of those locations that say, here's him getting on or here's him getting off and getting back on. That's still in progress.

ACOSTA: Yes. And, John, the monopoly money in the backpack, I mean, that sounds like a message. Your thoughts?

MILLER: It does appear to be a message. And, you know, our killer is also a messenger. When he writes on the bullets, deny, delay, depose, that's the three Ds that critics of the insurance industry, and especially in the healthcare realm, say is what they use to avoid making full payments. Monopoly money in a bag that the killer would have presumed that police would find is probably him giving a sign of money as the driver and greed.

The question that it begs, though, was all of this caution, with the masks and the hoods and trying not to show his face, concealing these things, is it because he just wanted to get away, or is it because he intends to strike again as he sends these messages?

[10:05:00] ACOSTA: Right. And as he's sending these messages, you have to wonder, is he going to slip up you know, sooner rather than later? We'll have to see about that. John Miller, thanks as always. We appreciate it.

MILLER: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: Busy morning this morning and other news, a new era beginning today in Syria now that rebel forces have taken control of the country. Its brutal dictator, Bashar al-Assad, has fled to his longtime ally Russia, but even there, he can't escape the fallout. The rebel Syrian flag, take a look at this, was raised over the embassy in Moscow today. Syrians who lived under the fist of the Assad family's power and corruption for 50 years could be seen plundering the presidential office after it was abandoned. The U.S. says its troops in Syria are not in harm's way. The U.S. did hit multiple targets inside the country, though, to prevent extremists from grabbing certain areas.

And let's get more on this dramatic upheaval in Syria. Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle joins us now. He co-chairs the Friends of a Free, Stable, and Democratic Syria Caucus in the House. Congressman, good to see you this morning.

Just your thoughts on all of this and Bashar al-Assad fleeing to Moscow, do you think he's going to be brought to justice at some point? One would think that he's trying to avoid that by running off to Russia.

REP. BRENDAN BOYLE (D-PA): Well, it's good to be back with you, Jim. And I really have two thoughts after this extraordinary, only two-week period. The first is the hundreds, indeed over a thousand members of the Syrian diaspora who I've worked with for over a decade to see this moment achieved, many of whom have suffered tremendously in real atrocities at the hands of Assad and his family. My heart is with them in this moment and I share in their joy.

My second thought, though, is that the work isn't over. And Syria's future is far from certain. So, the work needs to continue to make sure that we actually take advantage of this opportunity and truly build a free, stable, and democratic Syria and that a new Assad doesn't emerge.

ACOSTA: Are you surprised by how quickly this happened?

BOYLE: I think that's unanimous. Yes, I mean, this looked quite hopeless for a long time. And there were a few of us who would still be doing Syrian events and still talking about this issue. I have to tell you, for a long time, it was a pretty lonely group of us because this was the forgotten war in many ways. The half a million dead figure that is often cited in the media, that's from a U.N. report of about a decade ago. I mean, we were talking well into the millions who died in the Syrian -- what started out as a civil war, but really expanded beyond that.

So, to go from what looked like a very difficult, if not impossible task, to then suddenly have Assad out within a couple weeks is truly breathtaking.

ACOSTA: And I have to ask you, I mean, President-elect Trump was on social media saying the United States should have nothing to do with this, this is not our fight, let it play out, do not get involved. What's your reaction to that?

BOYLE: Well, it's a kind of empty headed isolationism, an instinct that has -- not new to our politics. It's always been around in some shape or form for the last couple of 100 years. Keep in mind that we can't be confronted with a false choice.

The options are not between, A, what Donald Trump proposes and, B, suddenly sending in tens of thousands of American soldiers. I'm not advocating for that. No one's advocating for that. What I am advocating for is making sure that we now work with the brave Syrian diaspora, people who genuinely want a democratic country, and we help support them achieve those noble aims. What a difference it would make for Syria and the region if they're successful. That is in America's foreign policy interests.

ACOSTA: And I have to ask you while I have you here, Donald Trump making some comments about potentially jailing January 6th members of that January 6th committee. I'm sure you saw that his comments over the weekend. Do you view that as a real threat? What's your reaction to that?

BOYLE: I think it is absolutely a real threat. I think, if anything, when it comes to Donald Trump that we should have learned over the last decade, it's to take him both seriously and literally. A lot of people were quite naive in the months leading up to January 6th trying to kind of brush aside what Trump was saying. I think we learned that lesson the hard way.

So, last week, as you may or may not know, I have publicly called for the administration to issue preemptive pardons to a number of people who have been expressly targeted by both Donald Trump as well as his presumably incoming FBI director, Kash Patel.

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They have literally published an enemies list and are flat out telling us that they intend to use the criminal justice system to go after these patriotic public servants who are simply doing their duty. I think we have an obligation to protect them while we still can.

ACOSTA: All right. Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle, thank you very much. We appreciate it. We'll be talking about some of that later on in the program. But in the meantime, thanks so much.

And with me now for more on the story in Syria is Mouaz Moustafa, excuse me. He's the executive director of the Syrian Emergency Task Force. And what was your reaction, Mr. Moustafa, when you saw these dramatic events play out over the weekend? It really was extraordinary to see.

MOUAZ MOUSTAFA, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, SYRIAN EMERGENCY TASK FORCE: Elation. I mean, it's very rare in a world where we see so much war, destruction, horrible people doing horrible things, and to see good triumph over evil is amazing. And to know that millions of refugees are going to go home is amazing to know that no more Russian airstrikes, no more IRGC, Hezbollah, Assad, gulags, torturing civilians. It's truly unbelievable and I'm still processing this amazing victory of the Syrian people by the Syrian people without any outside support. And I think that's also a huge accomplishment.

ACOSTA: And just a few moments ago, we were playing some video of what it looked like after media and after these rebel forces stormed the presidential palace and other areas there in Damascus. And one of the images I was struck by is there this one room that showed this fleet of exotic sports cars. And so it just shows you -- there it is right there. It just shows you what the Assad regime was all about in many ways. It was really just about looting the country.

MOUSTAFA: Absolutely. It was a mafia, the Assad regime. The best way to describe him is a genocidal narco-trafficking tyrant. And his friends were America's biggest enemies, Iran, Hezbollah, Russia, et cetera. And the Syrian people have had to fight against all of these forces at once with zero -- like imagine the amount of support that came to the Syrians. It's not even 1 percent of what the Ukraine has received from the international community, as they should, in their righteous fight as well. But it makes it that much more sweet to see them defeat Russia, Russia defeated in Syria. What a big geopolitical win, and what a huge -- I think it's a new Middle East now, and it's a new world after the Syrians beat their dictator.

ACOSTA: And I do have to ask you, the head of the main rebel group at one point was affiliated with ISIS. Let's listen to what he had to say after Damascus was overthrown. Let's listen to this.

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ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI, SYRIAN REBEL LEADER: This victory, my brothers, is a victory for the entire Islamic nation. This new triumph, my brothers, marks a new chapter in the history of the region, a history fraught with dangers, leaving Syria as a playground for Iranian ambitions spreading sectarianism, stirring corruption. It became the world's leading source of captagon. But today, Syria is being purified by the grace of God almighty and through the efforts of the (INAUDIBLE) Mujahideen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Mouaz, do those comments concern you? What are your thoughts about those comments?

MOUSTAFA: Look, you know, I think one thing that's really, really important, without going into all the nuances, is that HTS and this guy, who is part of a bigger coalition of forces that liberated Syria, are and have been the biggest enemies of ISIS and Al-Qaeda in Syria. That's why Al-Qaeda actually has no foothold in Syria. It's HDS and other rebel groups. And that's why ISIS has no presence in Northwest Syria because of them. And in Northeast Syria, ISIS has been defeated because of the SDF and the United States military. This speech and is actually welcome in the sense that he, number one, said no sectarianism anymore that Assad regime had, Christians and Muslims, Alawites and Sunnis all now have their country back. Number two, that Iran and Russia don't belong there, and that's a very true thing, and that makes the whole region much safer. And number three, is he himself has talked about, even in terms of HTS potentially dissolving, what's happening right now is governance.

And if you look at Aleppo, which was liberated now, seven days ago, I was just on the phone with the bishop of Aleppo, who is the top Catholic in Syria, he said, Mouaz, we've never had this much electricity in the decades we've been under Assad. And we're decorating our neighborhoods for Christmas. When have we seen the Taliban or Isis or Al-Qaeda go in and have, you know, Christians not run away, but instead decorate for Christmas? I think people are getting a lot of wrong misinformation, especially from some Gulf states and from Iran and Russia that wanted to save Assad.

ACOSTA: Interesting. All right, well, it's been an extraordinary couple of weeks, just -- the world literally changed over the weekend. Mouaza Moustafa, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. We'll stay in touch on this as it develops. Thank you.

Coming up, Donald Trump says American citizens whose families are in the U.S. illegally could be deported. We'll unpack that and some other alarming comments he made over the weekend. That's next.

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ACOSTA: In his first network T.V. interview since the election, President-elect Donald Trump says he would like to see many of the people who investigated him sent to jail, including members of the January 6th committee.

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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: And Cheney was behind it. And so was Bennie Thompson and everybody on that committee for what they did. Honestly, they should go to jail.

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS ANCHOR: Are you going to direct your FBI director and your attorney general to send them to jail?

TRUMP: No, not at all. I think that they'll have to look at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Here now to discussion, CNN Political Commentator, Democratic Strategist Maria Cardona and Former Spokesman for Republican Governor Doug Burgum's 2024 Presidential Campaign Lance Trevor.

Lance, let me start with you. Liz Cheney is responding to what Trump had to say. She says these comments are a continuation of Trump's assault on the rule of law. He's also talked about pardoning his supporters involved in the attack on the Capitol. But how should we view these comments from the president-elect?

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Because I mean, it's no small thing to have an incoming president say that members of Congress should go to jail. I mean, we were just talking about the fall of Assad. I mean, it sounds like something Bashar al-Assad would say, quite frankly.

LANCE TROVER, FORMER SPOKESPERSON, BURGUM 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: Well, I think you take him at what he said, that he's not going to direct his legal folks in the Justice Department to look into this. I think what you're seeing is somebody who is rightfully frustrated when he's reflecting over what happened over the course of the last four years in terms of this idea that our government has been weaponized, particularly against him, the idea that there may be a double standard in our justice system. And I think you see that frustration coming out in him. But I would also look to what he said is, look, I'm not -- will there be.

ACOSTA: More than frustration? I mean, he's talking about sending members of Congress to jail. I mean --

TROVER: will there be questions? Will there be reviews? That happens with every incoming administration that looks back at what happened in the previous administration.

And remember, there's only been one Justice Department that's gone after somebody, and it's this current one after him.

ACOSTA: But he did try to overthrow an election. He did hide classified documents at Mar-a-Lago, wouldn't give them back.

TROVER: Joe Biden had classified documents in his house that --

ACOSTA: Okay, yes. But, I mean, but, Lance, I mean, not to borrow a line from ESPN, but come on, man. I mean, seriously, this is nuts. I mean, we should just say this is like, you know, this is nuts.

TROVER: He said -- look, he said it right there. Look, he said to Kristen, I'm not going to direct my people to go after this. But if there are questions that look back, if you're somebody whose home was raided by this current Justice Department, while the sitting president whose Justice Department effected that raid, had documents in himself, you could understand. And I think you get outside of Washington D.C. and you talk to voters, there is real concern about a double standard in our justice system.

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Here's what there is concern about. There is concern about a president-elect of the United States actually obsessed with his enemies list. As opposed to a to-do list for the American people. And that's exactly what we saw in this interview. And, look --

ACOSTA: Though that message did not win in the election, I will say.

CARDONA: I'm with you, but, you know, it was very close. We're still a very divided country. And the president-elect saying this does not help that division. In fact, I think it makes it worse. Because it makes -- it look like, oh, the Democrats were right. Look at what he is focused on. He's obsessed with this and not obsessed with helping the American people.

ACOSTA: I don't mean -- I interrupted Lance. I'm sorry. It's a Monday. But do Democrats need to get out of the fetal position a little bit and take this incoming president on even before he comes into office and say, you're not putting lawmakers in jail?

CARDONA: Yes. And I think you will see a lot of Democrats doing that.

And here's the point that I would say to my friend, Lance. He doesn't necessarily need to say that he is going to direct his people to do this because if his people, like Kash Patel, become the FBI director, he doesn't need to direct them. Kash Patel already knows what he wants him to do. That's why he wants people, the loyalists, the people who will do everything he wants, as opposed to what is allowed under the rule of law. And that's why he's so comfortable saying, oh, I don't need to direct my people because his people already know that he wants these people in jail. And that's why those nominations are so dangerous.

TROVER: We're spending a lot of time on this, but I will say there was a good chunk of that interview that was talked about unity, in terms of his inauguration speech, working with Democrats to pass legislation. It wasn't completely --

ACOSTA: Yes, he also talked about his immigration plans. He says, American citizen family members of undocumented immigrants may also be deported. Let's listen to that.

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TRUMP: I don't want to be breaking up families. So, the only way you don't break up the family is you keep them together and you have to send them all back.

WELKER: Even kids who are here legally?

TRUMP: Well, what are you going to do if they want to stay with the father?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: Yes. Lance, I mean, we're talking about locking up members of Congress, deporting American citizens. Are you comfortable with this?

TROVER: I think he -- when it comes to this immigration issue, this is something he's been very clear on since he ran. I mean, this is stuff he's talked about for months on end, and frankly, for eight years. And where some of these issues, yes, in 2016, they weren't as popular, but I think you have a very different American public right now who is very upset. And I would not underestimate --

ACOSTA: Deport American citizens?

TROVER: I think this country, in terms of mass deportations right now, in terms of this issue of birthright citizenship, I would not underestimate Americans' tolerance to In terms of getting this border under control. It's an issue he ran on. He was winning by double digits during the campaign.

Also, I would note though, He did open the door to working with Democrats and talking about DREAMERs and keeping them in this country. I think the question also is, is he going to do things Maria doesn't like? Yes, of course, he is. There's no doubt about that. But I think he also cracked the door.

ACOSTA: He also said he wants to get rid of the 14th Amendment, which would end birthright citizenship here in the U.S.

TROVER: Being American is a special thing. I mean, at this point, like this birthright citizenship issue, some could argue, is being used as a loophole by illegal immigrants coming into this country.

CARDONA: That's just insanity. Birthright citizenship is a foundation of this country and of our Constitution.

[10:25:01]

TROVER: But not for illegal immigrants just to come into this country and stay.

CARDONA: No, it is a foundation of being America and of who we are as a country. And I know that that's something --

ACOSTA: Whose citizenships are we going to revoke? I mean, you know --

CARDONA: You would have to revoke mine.

ACOSTA: A little bit of a slippery slope, isn't it?

CARDONA: You would have to revoke -- well, you would -- not mine because I -- actually, I might be deported because I'm a naturalized citizen. And Stephen Miller, who is Donald Trump's deputy chief of staff, has said that they're going to embark on a denaturalization program. So, I could be deported, my citizenship could be taken away, and my children could be deported because they have birthright citizenship.

So, this is not what the country voted for. Let's be very clear. Americans voted for Trump because of groceries, because of lowering costs. He has not talked about that one bit. What this country did not vote for is to deport the 11 million undocumented immigrants who do critical work for our economy, who have injected $7 trillion into our economy.

And what Americans want is a solution to immigration. They want expanded legal pathways, and they do want more stronger, smart border security, which is exactly what Democrats are talking about. And Democrats have always been the ones willing to work with Republicans on a solution. And it's been Republicans that have always pulled the rug from under our feet.

ACOSTA: Well, I have a feeling we're going to be talking about these issues a little bit more in the coming days. Maria and Lance, guys, thank you very much. I appreciate it.

CARDONA: Thanks, Jim.

ACOSTA: Coming up, why Trump's picks to lead the Pentagon and the V.A. are stirring concerns among veterans. That's coming up.

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