Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Crystal Mangum, Who Accused Three Duke Lacrosse Players of Rape, Now Admits She Lied About Encounter; Parents of Missing American Found in Syria Speak to CNN; New, Sources Say, Three Search Warrants Executed in New York. Aired 10-10:30a ET

Aired December 13, 2024 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:00:00]

JIM ACOSTA, CNN ANCHOR: The woman who set off a national firestorm in 2006 by falsely accusing three Duke men's lacrosse players of rape now says she lied about the encounter.

Plus, first on CNN, the parents of a missing American found alive in Syria join me live. What we're learning about Travis Timmerman and the prison he says he was kept in for months.

And later, President-elect Donald Trump rode anger over inflation to victory. And last month's election now a backpedal. He says it will be, quote, hard to bring down grocery prices.

Hello. I'm Jim Acosta Washington. You are live in the CNN Newsroom.

And we begin this hour with breaking news with a first ever stunning admission from a woman who accused Duke University at lacrosse players of raping her nearly 20 years ago. The story was a national firestorm. She now says she lied about the encounter.

Crystal Mangum first made the claims back in 2006, saying three members of the school's lacrosse team raped her after she had been hired to dance at a house party the team was throwing. Police charged David Evans, Collin Finnerty, and Reade Seligmann after Mangum's accusations. But after much back and forth in the city's D.A. stepping down from the case, North Carolina's attorney general later dismissed the charges, citing a lack of evidence. But now, hoing on the record on a podcast nearly 20 years later, Crystal Mangum says she was lying the whole time.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CRYSTAL MANGUM, : RAPE ACCUSER IN 2006 DUKE UNIVERSITY LACROSSE CASE: I testified falsely against them by saying that they raped me when they didn't, and that was wrong. And I betrayed the trust of a lot of other people who believed in me and made up a story that wasn't true because I wanted validation from people and not from God. And that was wrong when God already loved me for who I was, regardless, I didn't need to seek validation from him because I already had validation from him. I just didn't know it.

And I hurt my brothers and I hope that they can forgive me. And I want them to know that I love them and they didn't deserve that and I hope they can forgive me, and that I hope that they can heal and trust God and know that God loves them and that God is loving them through me, letting them know that they're valuable and that they didn't deserve that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ACOSTA: Joining now is CNN's Jean Casarez, who reported heavily on this case. Jean, give us a sense of how impactful and controversial these accusations and the result were at that time. I remember, you remember this story all too well. I mean, this was literally a firestorm of a story back in 2006. The entire country was watching it. And to hear this admission all these years later, it's just extraordinary.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And three young lives were destroyed at that time. You know, it was 2006. It was Durham, North Carolina. I was there. I was covering this. And Crystal Mangum made the accusation that she was raped by David Evans, Collin Finnerty, and Reade Seligmann. And there were charges, very serious sexual assault charges, that had terms of imprisonment for the rest of their lives.

And in Durham that's where it started, and everyone took Crystal Magnum's side because she came out with details, very specific graphic details.

[10:05:02]

And the young men said, we didn't do this, but Duke University did not stand by them either. They were just really silent. But everyone was focused that she was telling the truth, they weren't. Then it went to a national level and their names became household names. And they were taken into court on these very serious charges. And they were in college, they were at Duke University. Furthermore, the lacrosse team, their entire season was canceled. The coach was fired. So, there were ramifications from it.

Now, one year later, the Attorney General, found, exonerated them of innocence. But there's so much more to the story. I was in the courtroom and Mike Nifong, the district attorney of Durham, was charged with criminal contempt and then also for disbarment of his bar license. And it came out what the truth was.

One of the defense teams had a young attorney just got out of law school and he would stay up at night reading the thousands of pages of DNA evidence. And he found something in one of those thousands of pages that confirmed that their DNA was not a part of DNA that they had collected from her. And that DNA evidence is actually one of the major factors that they were exonerated.

And that came out during Mike Nifong's trial. He was convicted, by the way, the district attorney, who had stood by her and had done many interviews about how she was raped so viciously. And then they reclaimed their lives.

But right there, I believe that's David Evans right there, he said that he, at the time, because he was in the courtroom during Mike Nifong's trial, he wanted to become an attorney because he wanted to help others who were wrongfully accused. And I don't know if that happened, but that is what he wanted at that time.

But they'll always be the three Duke lacrosse players, right? If you say the name Collin Finnerty, and especially if you live in Duke, in Durham, you're going to know who that is.

ACOSTA: And, Jean, that school's lacrosse program was just smeared. I mean, and I'm sure suffered, and the school just suffered major reputational damage after that. Is there anything that could come as in part of the fallout of this? I mean, could there be some sort of lawsuit? I mean, I suppose there might not be much to sue for here. It doesn't sound like Crystal has a whole lot of assets on her side of things.

CASAREZ: Well, she's in prison. She's in prison right now for murder. And so, that's true.

There were several lawsuits at the time, one against Duke, another against Durham, the city of Durham. But now that she has come out on the record saying it, let's see legally what is available, because it has been almost 20 years. And I'm sure her resources are very, very sparse at this point.

But we have tried to contact the three now men involved in this, their attorneys, and a local paper said that there are not comments at this point of their reaction to all of this.

ACOSTA: Wow. All right, Jean, stand by. I really appreciate you being on with us this morning.

I do want to go to Katerena DePasquale. She is the podcaster who interviewed Crystal Mangum when this admission was offered up. Katerena, I understand you're on the phone with us. Tell us a little bit about this interview. Yes, how did this come about?

KATERENA DEPASQUALE, HOST, LET'S TALK WITH KAT PODCAST: Well, so I'm a New Yorker who lives in Durham, North Carolina. I have been -- I started my show let'stalkwithkat.com, and I was looking for an interesting interview. In my circle people have talked about Krystal and there was so much mystery around it for me because it seemed like some people viewed her as a pariah and some people still viewed her as a victim. And so I just thought, you know, I want to find out for myself who this person is, and I wanted to see the reasonings behind the decision-making, and, you know, just that's -- where I was heading.

ACOSTA: Yes. But, Kat, I mean, tell me about this admission. I mean, she just blurted it out. Did you have to press her? How did that go down?

DEPASQUALE: So, my intentions -- yes. My intentions were -- had nothing to do with getting any confessions out of Crystal. I contacted her via our online platform and I asked her if I could interview her. And the protocol of this prison was that she needs to mail me a letter and confirm if she's down for the interview. She did. She mailed me a letter.

[10:10:00]

And in the letter, she said that she would like to give me an interview, but also she would like to apologize to Duke Lacrosse players.

ACOSTA: And so she just says --

DEPASQUALE: So that was surprising.

ACOSTA: Yes. And she just says she made it up, it was a false accusation? Did she say why?

DEPASQUALE: But I won the talk -- yes. Well, so, yes, if you watch the full interview, there are like about five questions before she confesses, because I thought about it and I -- again, my platform is about finding out reasoning behind the decision-making. And so I attempted to look, to see who Crystal was on the human level and, you know, understand why she made the decision that she made. So, yes.

ACOSTA: It's really extraordinary. Well, Katerena, thank you so much for sharing this with us. It is quite the scoop, Katerena DePasquale. And, Jean Casarez, thank you for your time as well. We really appreciate it. It's just an extraordinary story.

Still to come, joy and relief for the family of Travis Timmerman, the missing American found in Syria this week after months of fearing the worst. His parents, they are elated over his discovery. They join me live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:15:00]

ACOSTA: Turning now to the breaking news on the missing American found alive in Syria after the fall of the brutal Assad regime. He is 29-year-old Travis Timmerman of Missouri. We talked to you about him yesterday. This is what he told NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRAVIS TIMMERMAN, MISSING AMERICAN, FOUND: I was in prison for seven months after that I entered the Syrian border illegally. I crossed the mountain between Lebanon and Syria.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ACOSTA: And joining me now are the mother and stepfather of Travis, Stacey and Richard Gardiner. Thank you guys so much for being with us. We really appreciate it. I can't imagine what you're going through right now. You must feel a total range of emotions here. Stacey, let me start with you. You're mom here, I mean, you just, you must be so relieved to know that your son is okay?

STACEY GARDINER, MOTHER OF TRAVIS TIMMERMAN: Yes, I am. Yes. I --

ACOSTA: What's it been like for you?

S. GARDINER: I've been happy, excited. I just wish she called me. And I'm thankful that, you know, they found him.

ACOSTA: And you just didn't know what was going on with him for all these months. Is that correct?

S. GARDINER: No, I didn't.

ACOSTA: My goodness. And, Richard, you both haven't spoken to Travis yet. I guess you got a lot to talk about.

RICHARD GARDINER, STEPFATHER OF TRAVIS TIMMERMAN: Yes, we haven't heard from him since May. Yes, there's a lot to talk about.

ACOSTA: Yes. What's going on? I mean, what do you know about how all of this played out and how he ended up in Syria?

R. GARDINER: I have no idea how he ended up in Syria. Last we knew he was in Hungary and how he ended up that far south, I have no idea.

ACOSTA: Yes. Stacey, what was he doing in Hungary? I mean, what do you think of all this?

S. GARDINER: Well, he went over there, brought a hundred people to different churches. He was all about, you know, God, so he wanted to learn about different things over there, you know?

ACOSTA: Sure.

S. GARDINER: And at first I didn't like it, but now he's 29, I can't make him stay home, you know?

ACOSTA: Was he kind of, trying to find himself, that kind of a thing? Is that what this was, like a pilgrimage of sorts?

R. GARDINER: He wanted to do some research because he wanted to write a book on old churches.

ACOSTA: Interesting. And I guess you're supposed to speak with the FBI at some point and get a briefing from them and hopefully they'll fill you in on what's going on. Is that right?

R. GARDINER: I hope so.

S. GARDINER: Yes.

ACOSTA: I mean, it just sounds like such a strange situation to go from being in Hungary and then vanishing and then somehow showing up in Syria. Stacey, what did you think when you saw these pictures on the news and there's your son in Syria talking to the press? I just can't imagine what was going through your mind at that time.

S. GARDINER: I was going crazy. I was happy, but I would just --

R. GARDINER: Yes, it was just not -- when I saw him on the news, I just started bawling forward. I'm like, it's really him, he's really alive. You know, after seven months, I start thinking the worst.

ACOSTA: Seven months.

R. GARDINER: It turned out to be a great Christmas present.

ACOSTA: No kidding. And so you really did fear -- you both feared the worst?

S. GARDINER: Yes.

ACOSTA: Because he usually doesn't go that long without reaching out. Is that it?

R. GARDINER: Yes.

[10:20:00]

Normally, he was talking to -- well, he talked to -- video talked to his mom two, three days a week.

ACOSTA: Wow.

R. GARDINER: And nothing for seven months. And then somebody in Lebanon had his laptop as well. So, we knew he didn't have those anymore. We're thinking the worst. We just found that out about a month ago.

S. GARDINER: And I had a meltdown all the time. Every night, I had a meltdown after that.

ACOSTA: Because you just didn't know.

S. GARDINER: Yes, you're right.

ACOSTA: And when you see the pictures of him now, how does he look to you? Does he look okay? Does he look like he's been through a lot? And you know him better than anybody.

S. GARDINER: I think he's been through a lot. He looks different.

ACOSTA: Do you know -- yes. Do you know why he went to Syria?

S. GARDINER: No, he didn't tell us.

R. GARDINER: He didn't tell us anything.

ACOSTA: So, he's got a lot of explaining to do, it sounds like, when he gets home for Christmas.

S. GARDINER: Yes.

R. GARDINER: Yes.

ACOSTA: He's in a little bit of trouble with mom?

S. GARDINER: Yes. Yes.

ACOSTA: Well, I mean, what are you going to say to him when you see him? I mean, what's the first thing you're going to say?

S. GARDINER: I love you.

R. GARDINER: Give him a big hug.

S. GARDINER: Big hug. And he gets to meet his niece, Bella (ph). My daughter had her baby in June (INAUDIBLE).

ACOSTA: So he's missed a lot?

S. GARDINER: Yes, he has.

ACOSTA: And tell us about Travis. I mean, what's he like? What do people need to know about him? He's certainly pretty darn famous.

S. GARDINER: Yes. He's really outgoing. He's smart. He went to Missouri State, has a finance degree. He went to law school at Knoxville, Tennessee, has a law degree. And he passed the bar (INAUDIBLE).

ACOSTA: Yes. But no more crazy adventures, I'm sure you're going to tell him. You need to stay put for a while.

S. GARDINER: That's right.

R. GARDINER: Put a chain around his leg.

ACOSTA: I bet.

S. GARDINER: He ain't going nowhere, son.

ACOSTA: That's it. Well, Stacey, Richard, thank you so much for your time. We're really happy for both of you and give Travis our best when you finally talk to him after you maybe smack him upside the head or something. But thanks a lot.

S. GARDINER: Yes, definitely (ph).

R. GARDINER: Thank you, Jim.

ACOSTA: All right. Happy holidays, I really appreciate it. Thanks so much.

R. GARDINER: You too. ACOSTA: All right. Just ahead, the new details we're learning about the possible motivations for Luigi Mangione, the man accused of killing insurance CEO Brian Thompson, that story on the other side of the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[10:25:00]

ACOSTA: All right. This morning, we have a number of new developments in the murder of the UnitedHealthcare's CEO. Sources telling CNN that authorities in New York have executed as many as three search warrants against the suspected killer, Luigi Mangione. One source says the backpack recovered in Central Park and a burner phone found near the killing are among the focus at this point in the investigation. ABC News is reporting that the Manhattan District Attorney's Office is already presenting evidence to a grand jury.

And as investigators search for a possible motive, there's a new twist. A UnitedHealthcare spokesperson says Mangione was not a member of UnitedHealthcare.

Let's discuss all of this. Gregg McCrary is a former FBI profiler and Clinical Psychologist Jeff Gardere is with us as well. Gentlemen, thanks to both of you very much.

Gregg, let me start with you first. Does it surprise you that Mangione is not a member of UnitedHealthcare and I guess just had a grievance or a grudge or an axe to grind with the whole industry or with corporate America? What do you make of all that?

GREGG MCCRARY, FORMER FBI PROFILER: Right. Yes, it certainly wasn't a personal grievance. Excuse me.

ACOSTA: Yes.

MCCRARY: He was more of a -- Mr. Thompson was more of a symbolic target. But what we see happening in this lone actor targeted violence is exactly this sort of thing where they embrace these extreme, overvalued beliefs detached from their social safety network of family and friends. And it's a long devolutionary downward spiral.

And then they identify with anti-heroes, people who have done this before, the disaffected warrior who takes up weapons against the oppressor. And then they see themselves in that role as that kind of avenging guy who's going to take up weapons against the oppressor on behalf of the oppressed. And then this is what we have.

But it's very difficult to prevent because they withdraw and they don't share many times their ideations. And that makes it very difficult to spot these guys and prevent it. Sometimes the analogy is it's like trying to find a needle in the haystack, but a better analogy is it's trying to determine which piece of hay is going to become a needle, because these guys are normal and then they morph into this homicidal individual.

[10:30:01]

ACOSTA: And, Jeff, this must be a fascinating case for you to observe as well. I mean, Mangione's friends say he suffered debilitating back pain.