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Rep. Raja Krishnamoorthi (D-IL), Is Interviewed About House Committee Releases Memo On Coast Guard Cover-Up Of Sexual Assault Investigation; Lawmakers Makes Announcements On New Jersey Drone Sightings. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired December 13, 2024 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[11:00:00]

PAMELA BROWN, CNN HOST: For the first time, the former commandant of the Coast Guard who covered up a damning report about sexual assaults at the Coast Guard Academy, is talking publicly about why he did it. I -- I want to note to everyone we've been asking for months and months to interview this man right here, Karl Schultz, who led the Coast Guard until 2022 about why he buried an inter -- internal investigation known as Operation Fouled Anchor. Now he is speaking out.

And just for -- for our viewers, that report is a secret investigation which was revealed by CNN and it showed dozens of rapes and other sexual abuse allegations that have been mishandled by the Coast Guard. Instead of releasing that report to the public years ago and to Congress, Schultz made the decision to conceal it.

But he now tells CNN in an exclusive interview off camera after a damning report released by Congress that he did so to protect victims and that he still stands by his decision that he would do it again the same way if he could do it all over again. Now, when CNN first reported on Operation Fouled Anchor last year, it sent shockwaves through the military.

Dozens of credible allegations of rape were treated as minor misconduct by Coast Guard command. The assaults were covered up. Perpetrators only received minor punishment, like extra homework. Victims came forward to talk to CNN and testify before Congress and told stories about their lives being derailed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, FORMER COAST GUARD ACADEMY CADET: You know, I often find myself wondering what my -- my future would have been like. Time and time again, the academy and the institution, the -- the policies that are in place don't protect their -- their people. And this is supposed to be a lifesaving service. But in reality it -- it took my life away from me. So it did -- it did nothing to save me when I was asking for help. And it's devastating.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: Multiple congressional committees and the Coast Guard investigated the cover up. And today the House Oversight Committee released a highly critical memo detailing an interview they had with Schultz. The memo says Schultz, quote, personally made the decision to withhold Operation Fouled Anchor from Congress. Schultz stated that was a decision by me. I own that exclusively. And that Schultz acknowledged he missed an opportunity for transparency and wished he could have a, quote, mulligan.

But Schultz tells CNN in this interview, the committee took his comments out of context. He said he knew if he had presented the findings to Congress, lawmakers would have seen it as a political opportunity. Schultz telling CNN, quote, I knew they would see it as here's the scandal and that they would blow it up. And he feared the push for more information would eventually reveal the identities of the victims.

He said the Mulligan comment wasn't about the overall investigation, but that he was second guessing whether he should have picked up the phone and called the victims. Schultz also said he did not believe he was under any legal obligation to share the findings with Congress.

So let's get a reaction from a member of the Oversight Committee, Democratic Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi of Illinois. He is on both the House Oversight and Intelligence Committees. Great to have you on. So again, Schultz hasn't spoken before now, despite us asking him for months and months to give us his side of the story. Now because the committee, it appears, released this report detailing what he allegedly told the committee, he now is speaking out to CNN trying to defend himself and why he withheld this damning report from Congress saying he would do it all over again if he had the chance. Your reaction?

REP. RAJA KRISHNAMOORTHI (D-IL): That's ridiculous. And I think that his reason for withholding that -- that report, I would say concealing that report from Congress is equally absurd. He said he was trying to protect the victims of the persistent harassment and the rapes in the Coast Guard Academy. I think he was trying to protect the perpetrators. That's what he was trying to do. He was trying to basically prevent them from facing accountability. And I think he himself needs to be held accountable.

BROWN: So I want to dive a little bit more into this and his claim to CNN that his comments to the committee were misrepresented. What do you say to that?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Again, I -- I actually read your story and I -- I saw this comment and I thought that doesn't ring true to me. I think that he probably does have regrets about what he -- what he did. But I think that, you know, now we need to know exactly the extent of the cover up with regard to this report. We need to know more importantly why the people that committed these rapes, why the people that committed this sexual harassment were not held accountable. And now we need to do that. A lot of them were promoted apparently over the decades and we need to get to the bottom of this.

[11:05:21]

BROWN: Tell us a little bit more about that, about where the rest of the investigation stands. Have you seen changes being made at the Coast Guard? Will there be any repercussions for some of those perpetrators?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Well, I don't want to get into too much -- too many of the details because it's an ongoing investigation, but it's a bipartisan investigation. And I think that what I've seen lately from the leader of the Coast Guard Command -- Commandant Sagan, is encouraging. But I need to see more. I think all of us need to see more. I think there's just too many unanswered questions.

And as you can tell, many, many more victims and survivors of the harassment are coming forward. They are actually suing the Coast Guard. The Coast Guard has an opportunity to respond. I hope they don't do so in a defensive way. I hope they actually settle these claims and don't put the victims through any more hardship than they've already gone through.

BROWN: Just before I move on to other topics really -- really quickly, again, I want to go back to what he is telling CNN that he withheld this report, because he wanted to protect the victims. I mean, does -- does an agency, a government agency, have that -- that right to just withhold a report from Congress?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: No, absolutely not. And by the way, we are handling the sensitive information of -- of government personnel all the time. And there are ways to do it. Investigations and there are ways to disclose the names of victims and information to Congress in a way that protects everybody. But the point is that we have the obligation in Congress to provide oversight.

And the Coast Guard has the obligation to disclose information such as the results of this investigation called Operation Fouled Anchor to us. And we're going to -- we're going to demand answers to the questions that we have.

BROWN: Your name, I want to go to a different topic, has been thrown around as a possibility to co-chair House Oversight. Here's what the Republican Chair James Comer told me yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY), OVERSIGHT & ACCOUNTABILITY CHAIRMAN: I tell the press when they ask about the race to -- for a ranking member. The Democrats have nowhere to go but up after having Jamie Raskin for -- for the last four years. So I think AOC would be great. Gerry Connolly would be great. I know Raja Krishnamoorthi, Ro Khanna, they're -- they've all -- their names have been thrown in the hat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Are you planning to announce a bid for the top Dem spot there?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: No, I'm -- I'm very happy leading the Democrats on the Select Committee on the Strategic Competition with the CCP, but I -- I -- I -- I'm grateful for any endorsement from Jim Comer. But I'm not interested.

BROWN: All right. I want to ask you about this drone mystery, New Jersey, that we're all seemingly talking about right now. Your colleague, Representative Josh Gottheimer, told CNN this morning that federal officials, quote, have a responsibility to brief the public more thoroughly and make sure everyone knows what they know. What do you know about these drones or flying objects? Where they're coming from? Is your sense that the public isn't being given the whole story with this lack of explanation?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Yes, I think that we have a lot of questions right now. As you know, there have been sightings of these drones not only over in New Jersey, but now in neighboring states. And so I'm looking forward to a briefing early next week. I'm hopeful that it will be forthcoming.

BROWN: What can you tell us that -- that you do know right now?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: All I know is that basically these sightings are now numerous. And we know that, you know, commercial drones are being operated by amateurs all over the United States. We know that 50 percent of the commercial drone market is supplied by DJI, which is a CCP controlled company. And obviously, I'm concerned about that because those DJI drones are capable of basically having backdoor access by the Chinese Communist party and the PRC government.

BROWN: Is U.S. airspace secure?

KRISHNAMOORTHI: I want to know that -- I -- I believe it's secure, but I need more assurance provided by the -- the authorities in this briefing.

BROWN: All right. I will follow up with you after that briefing, of course. I want to ask you something else. Your fellow Oversight Committee member had a very strong reaction to the resignation of FBI Director Christopher Wray. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[11:10:09]

REP. GERRY CONNOLLY (D-VA), OVERSIGHT & ACCOUNTABILITY COMMITTEE: You know, Director Wray is right that by removing himself, he removes a target, but he's going to be replaced with a partisan hack who has no real experience with the FBI. And I think for the rank and file FBI, I think his decision to resign prematurely under pressure is -- is tantamount to abandonment -- abandonment of the FBI and abandonment of them and their protections, exposing them to a political purge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: So what's your reaction that? Do you agree that Wray is abandoning the FBI rank and file? What are your biggest concerns with the Kash Patel nomination? KRISHNAMOORTHI: I wouldn't call it abandonment, but what I would say is that he's obviously resigning under political pressure. And what I'm really concerned about with Kash Patel is that, you know, if he is basically focused on doing Donald Trump's bidding, who will be doing the bidding of the American people? So if he's like out on a political vengeance tour or a political retribution tour, I'm concerned that he's going to be distracted from the very important task of going after the bad guys and protecting the homeland.

Remember, the reason why we haven't had a 9/11 since 9/11 is because of the FBI. That is their job every day to protect the homeland. And so I'm concerned that the bad guys, terrorists, maybe adversary countries, are cheering if somebody gets nominated, who's going to be going on a political vengeance tour or going after political enemies of Donald Trump.

BROWN: All right, Congressman, thank you so much for your time today. We appreciate it.

KRISHNAMOORTHI: Thanks, Pam.

BROWN: And still ahead this hour, the accusations rocked the world of college sports. Now, the woman who claimed that Duke lacrosse players raped her back in 2006 admits that she lied about the encounter. Stay with us.

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[11:16:20]

BROWN: Rep. Gottheimer was just talking about the mysterious drones over New Jersey and parts of New York. Let's listen in on what he has to say.

REP. JOSH GOTTHEIMER (D-NJ): Literally coming in by the scores every day. Some reports have suggested that these drones are the size of small cars. According to our military officials, since November 13th, Picatinny Arsenal, which is a defense system, defense base in New Jersey, the army facility, which is specifically in Morris County, has had 11 confirmed sightings of unauthorized drones flying over its airspace.

Just this morning, Sen. Andy Kim reported that he saw several drones himself with his own eyes just last night. I understand why so many in our community and our state are concerned. When you hear reports of drones flying above us or see activity yourself and federal agencies responsible for controlling the airspace don't properly and quickly brief the public, then it leaves a large vacuum of information.

As a member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, I have been in regular communication with our federal law enforcement officials, including the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security and the FAA. And we expect additional classified briefings early next week. I want folks to understand and I want to know for certain where are these drones coming from? Because right now there appears to be huge question about where they're coming from of these unauthorized, seem to be, unauthorized drones. I want you to know that based on the information, the briefings that I've received to date, I'm not concerned about any imminent threats to public safety or our national security regarding these drones. But And I've made this very clear to the FBI, to Homeland Security, and the FAA, the agency is chiefly responsible for monitoring drone activity.

They must immediately disclose more information to the public. It's totally and completely unacceptable that you have all this drone activity going on. That people are seeing with their own eyes. And even if it's not all drone activity, and some of it is manned aircraft, there appears to be plenty of drone activity that people are seeing with their own eyes.

The fact that the federal agencies responsible for briefing the public have not come forward in a clear way is unacceptable. There has to be some explanation to the public for all this increased activity, and they must do so now. That's why I've written to the FBI, DHS, and FAA this week and ask them to immediately brief the public, not on a piece of paper, but in person.

[11:20:15]

They also need to work closely with state and local law enforcement, who have done a very good job of bringing in a lot of this information to give them the equipment they need to monitor drone activity. There's clearly too much of it here in Jersey and other parts of the country.

Today, I'm also urging federal law enforcement agencies, which are led by the FBI and DHS, to allow state and local law enforcement to deploy assets that can safely take down drones that shouldn't be in the air right now. The technology exists to be able to do this, and law enforcement working with federal.

I want you to know that based on the information, the briefings that I've received to date, I'm not concerned about any imminent threats to public safety or our national security regarding these drones. But, and I've made this very clear to the FBI, to Homeland Security and the FAA, the agency is chiefly responsible for monitoring drone activity. They must immediately disclose more information to the public. It's totally and completely unacceptable that you have all this drone activity going on that people are seeing with their own eyes.

And even if it's not all drone activity, and some of it is manned aircraft, there appears to be plenty of drone activity that people are seeing with their own eyes. The fact that the federal agencies responsible for briefing the public have not come forward in a clear way is unacceptable. There has to be some explanation to the public for all this increased activity, and they must do so now. That's why I've written to the FBI, DHS, and FAA this week and asked them to immediately brief the public, not on a piece of paper, but in person.

They also need to work closely with state and local law enforcement who have done a very good job of bringing in a lot of this information to give them the equipment they need to monitor drone activity. There's clearly too much of it here in Jersey and other parts of the country.

Today, I'm also urging federal law enforcement agencies, which are led by the FBI and DHS, to allow state and local law enforcement to deploy assets that can safely take down drones that shouldn't be in the air right now. The technology exists to be able to do this.

BROWN: You just heard from the Congressman from New Jersey, Josh Gottheimer, who is very strong in his words, calling on federal agencies, especially the FAA, to be more -- more forthcoming with information about these mysterious drones over New Jersey and parts of New York as well. He says he wants to know where are they coming from, these apparent unauthorized drones.

And he said he's not concerned that there are imminent threats to public safety, but yet the government needs to tell us what's going on here. Both the Pentagon and the White House, they say that there is no evidence this drone activity is from a foreign adversary and or even if it's illegal. I think we have some sound that we were going to go to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KIRBY, WHITE HOUSE NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATIONS ADVISOR: Review of available imagery, it appears that many of the reported sightings are actually manned aircraft that are being operated lawfully.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has the federal government ruled out that these are controlled by foreign entities and do you know if they're conducting surveillance over these appearance?

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So I cannot make any -- any kind of predictions or -- or comments about that specifically from here. This is something that DHS is looking at.

SABRINA SINGH, DEPUTY PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: There is no Iranian ship off the coast of the United States and there's no so called mothership launching drones towards the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Joining us now is retired Air Force colonel and CNN military analyst, Cedric Leighton. What's going on here, Cedric?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, Pamela, if we all knew, right. So this is going to be, you know, clearly an issue that has to be looked into. What we have is definitely the possibility that there is something that has not been reported fully in terms of notifications to the FAA or -- or something like that. That's -- that's a possibility. It's a possibility that somebody is using drones or a company is using drones to test out a particular delivery mechanism, for example FedEx or DHL or a company like that. Or it could be where at least some of these objects that are sighted are ones that, you know, perhaps are questionable in terms of what they're actually doing there. And it could be -- there -- there is certainly the possibility that drones can be used for espionage purposes, that drones can be used, in essence, to map out the critical infrastructure of a particular locality. So this is definitely something that should be looked at and shouldn't be dismissed because it's, you know, relatively easy for somebody to do this.

But it's also something that, of course, could put lives at risk and -- and, you know, communities at risk.

BROWN: So the White House says there is no national security or public safety threat from these drones. But how can officials be so sure?

LEIGHTON: Well, they can't be so sure, Pamela, and that's -- that's part of the problem with messaging like that. They can say that as of now, they don't believe that there are any issues. And certainly if it's, you know, let -- let's say as an example, that it is an intelligence collection mission, you know, clearly there's a no physical threat if it's just that to the people at that -- at that particular point in time.

But it's still something that affects our national security. So it's, you know, sometimes you can be technically correct, but wrong in terms of the big picture. And so we really need to understand the exactly, you know, what these drones are, who's flying them, why are they flying them, did they have proper permissions?

And even if, let's say it's a test by the U.S. government for some new technologies, they should at least say it's something like that and -- and then, you know, let people know that. But, you know, as of now, it's -- it's clearly something that has not gotten the proper attention in the way that it should. And it certainly hasn't reassured the public at this point.

BROWN: Certainly. And there's certainly a lack of trust right now, right, about what we're hearing from the government because of the lack of transparency. You know, there are these apps on your phone where you can put it up to a drone and try to identify the drone. And -- and it makes me curious what the regulations are around drones and -- and the requirements for transponders and that kind of thing so that they can be easily identified. And so, you know, U.S. officials can be assured that -- that what's in the sky isn't a harm to public safety.

[11:25:07]

LEIGHTON: Exactly. And in fact, when you're a drone operator, you have their -- most of them have apps that if they have the right kind of drone, where they actually register their flight with the FAA. And then the FAA can be aware of any deconfliction issues. You know, if they need to tell the drone operator to move the drone away from a certain area, they at least know from a flight safety perspective where that drone is or approximately where it is and -- and what they need to do in a case like that. So, you know, there's a safety of flight issue, there's a public safety issue potentially, and certainly there is a, you know, potential, potential national security issue if it is something that, you know, is -- is collecting intelligence on us.

BROWN: All right, Colonel Cedric Leighton, thank you so much. We'll be right back.

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